Just about the must win game of the season - Gm 2. LGM!!
CF Nimmo
1b Alonso
SS Lindor
2B McNeil
3B Escobar
DH Vogelbach
LF Canha
RF Naquin
C Nido
P Max Scherzer
The Mets offense misses Marte in the worst way, as there is a huge dropoff from Marte to Naquin.
And this nonsense that he tried to spin of, oh well Ruf and Naquin will hit better with us because we'll utilize them the correct way. Is just that. Nonsense.
And if all that wasn't bad enough he traded Davis and 3 prospects for Ruf who has an OPS+ of 20 with the Mets. lol a 4 for 1 Darin Ruf trade.
+1 Moe.
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In comment 15840295 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15840286 CooperDash said:
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In comment 15840279 MetsAreBack said:
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Not nearly good enough. Hasn’t been in two months
Disagree
We knew this series was going to be heavy on elite pitching. The Braves pitching stepped up. The Mets pitching gives up HRs like they are candy.
Our elite pitchers fell short. That’s the story.
4 runs in two games...the same two critical games you're talking about, says otherwise.
Again - our “aces gave up 3 and 4 runs in less than 12 innings.
That’s not exactly elite pitching. Expecially what those two are being paid.
Honestly what they are getti g paid is meaningless.
The Braves have good pitching, too. The difference is they crush the ball and we don't.
The offense has no-showed in ATL again.
It’s not “meaningless”. Scherzer isn’t getting paid 30+ million per to give up 4 runs in less than 6 Innings.
He laid an egg of MONUMENTAL proportions. especially after degrom laid his own egg.
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In comment 15840298 speedywheels said:
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In comment 15840295 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15840286 CooperDash said:
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In comment 15840279 MetsAreBack said:
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Not nearly good enough. Hasn’t been in two months
Disagree
We knew this series was going to be heavy on elite pitching. The Braves pitching stepped up. The Mets pitching gives up HRs like they are candy.
Our elite pitchers fell short. That’s the story.
4 runs in two games...the same two critical games you're talking about, says otherwise.
Again - our “aces gave up 3 and 4 runs in less than 12 innings.
That’s not exactly elite pitching. Expecially what those two are being paid.
Honestly what they are getti g paid is meaningless.
The Braves have good pitching, too. The difference is they crush the ball and we don't.
The offense has no-showed in ATL again.
We can crush the ball too. But their pitchers didn’t serve up meatballs to our HR hitters like ours did. Over and over again.
This series was about pitching and ours fell short.
What? Acuna, Swanson, Riley, Olson, Harris, d'Arnaud, Ozuna, then they can throw Grissom at you and they haven't even had Albies.
They have 7 killers at least every night in their lineup.
I'm talking about run producers, guys who can generate runs with one swing, who've basically done it all season.
The Mets have Alonso and Lindor. Who else really scares you? Sure, throw Marte in there.
But that's it. Nimmo, McNeil, Escobar, Canha are nice players, sure. And I realize Nimmo is a very good player, but I'm talking about crushers.
They need thump. A lot more of it. Everything is fine and dandy when they are stringing together a bunch of hits and walks. But that's almost an impossible proposition against very good pitching.
They need more guys that can hit the three run homer, that's why they went and got Vogey and Ruf, but that plan has failed spectacularly.
Between that and their stubborn view about calling up their raging hot minor leaguers, this collapse is mostly on our arrogant/imbicile front office.
Yep; eppler deserves all the heat for the collapse. What a failure
Between that and their stubborn view about calling up their raging hot minor leaguers, this collapse is mostly on our arrogant/imbicile front office.
That's why Sandy got canned. And make no mistake, he did get fired. Now he is a "consultant" just like Omar after he got fired.
And that was tough for Cohen to do because he likes and respects Sandy.
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In comment 15840298 speedywheels said:
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In comment 15840295 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15840286 CooperDash said:
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In comment 15840279 MetsAreBack said:
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Not nearly good enough. Hasn’t been in two months
Disagree
We knew this series was going to be heavy on elite pitching. The Braves pitching stepped up. The Mets pitching gives up HRs like they are candy.
Our elite pitchers fell short. That’s the story.
4 runs in two games...the same two critical games you're talking about, says otherwise.
Again - our “aces gave up 3 and 4 runs in less than 12 innings.
That’s not exactly elite pitching. Expecially what those two are being paid.
Honestly what they are getti g paid is meaningless.
The Braves have good pitching, too. The difference is they crush the ball and we don't.
The offense has no-showed in ATL again.
It’s not “meaningless”. Scherzer isn’t getting paid 30+ million per to give up 4 runs in less than 6 Innings.
He laid an egg of MONUMENTAL proportions. especially after degrom laid his own egg.
Scherzer gave up two hits against elite mashers that went over the wall. If you're demanding perfection from your TOR starters against elite teams, you are going to lose a lot if your can't put up runs.
Atlanta may have the best lineup in all of baseball, and only the Dodgers have a good argument.
You can't say it's all about the pitching when the Mets score 2 runs per game in this series. 2 runs was never going to be enough against a team like the Braves.
If they perform poorly, he is gone.
If they perform poorly, he is gone.
Is this a joke? The man responsible is already leaving, we hope (it's been promised before)
This is literally true.
Ruf has a -1.6 WAR with the Mets. Givens a -0.3 WAR.
Davis was a 0.4 WAR before the trade.
Darin Ruf has an OPS+ of 20 with the Mets. 20. That puts him below what most NL pitchers used to hit.
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He actually made the team worse, lol.
Between that and their stubborn view about calling up their raging hot minor leaguers, this collapse is mostly on our arrogant/imbicile front office.
Yep; eppler deserves all the heat for the collapse. What a failure
Agree Speedy, Eppler fell flate on his face. A lot of us initially felt like he had failed, but then those acquiisitions started off well, and maybe we all thought we were wrong in our initial judgements. But we weren't wrong.
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In comment 15840305 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15840298 speedywheels said:
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In comment 15840295 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15840286 CooperDash said:
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In comment 15840279 MetsAreBack said:
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Not nearly good enough. Hasn’t been in two months
Disagree
We knew this series was going to be heavy on elite pitching. The Braves pitching stepped up. The Mets pitching gives up HRs like they are candy.
Our elite pitchers fell short. That’s the story.
4 runs in two games...the same two critical games you're talking about, says otherwise.
Again - our “aces gave up 3 and 4 runs in less than 12 innings.
That’s not exactly elite pitching. Expecially what those two are being paid.
Honestly what they are getti g paid is meaningless.
The Braves have good pitching, too. The difference is they crush the ball and we don't.
The offense has no-showed in ATL again.
We can crush the ball too. But their pitchers didn’t serve up meatballs to our HR hitters like ours did. Over and over again.
This series was about pitching and ours fell short.
What? Acuna, Swanson, Riley, Olson, Harris, d'Arnaud, Ozuna, then they can throw Grissom at you and they haven't even had Albies.
They have 7 killers at least every night in their lineup.
I'm talking about run producers, guys who can generate runs with one swing, who've basically done it all season.
The Mets have Alonso and Lindor. Who else really scares you? Sure, throw Marte in there.
But that's it. Nimmo, McNeil, Escobar, Canha are nice players, sure. And I realize Nimmo is a very good player, but I'm talking about crushers.
They need thump. A lot more of it. Everything is fine and dandy when they are stringing together a bunch of hits and walks. But that's almost an impossible proposition against very good pitching.
They need more guys that can hit the three run homer, that's why they went and got Vogey and Ruf, but that plan has failed spectacularly.
Stop it…you are scared of Ozuna and his .223 BA. Or Olsen and his .240 BA? And you are going to the discount Nimmo? And McNeil who is one of the best pitchers in the league? And Escobar who has been white hot for a month? And Canha is “just nice”?
Just stop. You are purposely propping up the ATL offense and downplaying the Mets. Our starting pitchers shit the bed. It’s okay to admit it.
Buck might play it different if its 3-2 in the 9th. He let Alvarez hit because he needed a big blow. I doubt he hits if it is a one-run game
“Those are our best shots and they stuffed them in our face.”
I guess that says it all.
Braves are missing Soroka, Albies and Strider.
Marte is a good player but I doubt Mets win either of these games regardless.
But do you or do you not respect both his and Olson's ability to go yard?
The Braves are second to only the Yankees in hitting the ball out of the ballpark in MLB. The Mets are 16th. The Braves have about 80ore team homers than the Mets this year.
And you know better than to bring up BA. It's 2022. The Braves have scored 25 more runs than the Mets this year and have allowed 8 fewer runs.
What do you think the bigger difference is, the pitching or the ability to park the ball in the seats?
The Mets had 8 hits yesterday, the Braves had 8 hits. The Mets had 8 hits tonight, the Braves had 11.
But more of the Braves hits go over the wall. It's undeniable.
Agreed.
We had the advantage on the pitching end - and they missed their spots in critical times. It’s sucks but it’s the reality.
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Brandon Nimmo on losing with deGrom and Scherzer: “Those are our best shots and they stuffed them in our face.”
“Those are our best shots and they stuffed them in our face.”
I guess that says it all.
Dodgers will win it all anyway.
Mets cant come up big when all is on the line....very upsetting.....Buck disappointed me with a lot of decisions recently, and getting the likes of Daren Ruf and Vogelback without improving the BP was something we all knew sucked.
But do you or do you not respect both his and Olson's ability to go yard?
The Braves are second to only the Yankees in hitting the ball out of the ballpark in MLB. The Mets are 16th. The Braves have about 80ore team homers than the Mets this year.
And you know better than to bring up BA. It's 2022. The Braves have scored 25 more runs than the Mets this year and have allowed 8 fewer runs.
What do you think the bigger difference is, the pitching or the ability to park the ball in the seats?
The Mets had 8 hits yesterday, the Braves had 8 hits. The Mets had 8 hits tonight, the Braves had 11.
But more of the Braves hits go over the wall. It's undeniable.
Batting average still means something - it’s pretty simple actually. But fine…yes Olsen is a HR threat. We all know that…so, maybe not throw a ball right down the middle of the plate? Our pitchers missed their spots in critical moments. It’s okay to say it. The Braves pitchers didn’t.
I’d like to think that Max and Jake are good enough to know this, but they gave up 5 home runs between the two of them. They needed to be better in this series to win. They weren’t.
And if he doesn't do it tomorrow, I'm going to ask Eric to ban him from BBI, lol.
You know what, you're right, it's just the difference in the standings on October 1st.
And honestly, we're lucky to just be a game back with that difference. That difference should be a two or three game lead for the Braves.
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Take out Ozuna.
But do you or do you not respect both his and Olson's ability to go yard?
The Braves are second to only the Yankees in hitting the ball out of the ballpark in MLB. The Mets are 16th. The Braves have about 80ore team homers than the Mets this year.
And you know better than to bring up BA. It's 2022. The Braves have scored 25 more runs than the Mets this year and have allowed 8 fewer runs.
What do you think the bigger difference is, the pitching or the ability to park the ball in the seats?
The Mets had 8 hits yesterday, the Braves had 8 hits. The Mets had 8 hits tonight, the Braves had 11.
But more of the Braves hits go over the wall. It's undeniable.
Batting average still means something - it’s pretty simple actually. But fine…yes Olsen is a HR threat. We all know that…so, maybe not throw a ball right down the middle of the plate? Our pitchers missed their spots in critical moments. It’s okay to say it. The Braves pitchers didn’t.
I’d like to think that Max and Jake are good enough to know this, but they gave up 5 home runs between the two of them. They needed to be better in this series to win. They weren’t.
The Braves sure did miss pitches over the middle of the plate yesterday and today. The Mets have been missing them and fouling them away or weak contact.
Winning the division means they only have to beat one of those two teams if we assume one of them makes the NLCS.
Bassitt basically has the postseason riding on his shoulders tomorrow.
Lol, I couldn’t care less how he spells his name. Just don’t serve up meatball pitches to him.
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Is with two 'o's, CD. Seriously not trying to be obtuse, it's just a pet peeve of mine.
Lol, I couldn’t care less how he spells his name. Just don’t serve up meatball pitches to him.
As opposed to the meatballs the Mets swung through last two games.
Every pitcher, every start is going to have mistake pitches. Except maybe 2021 deGrom. The Braves are better than us barrelling them.
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In comment 15840366 allstarjim said:
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Is with two 'o's, CD. Seriously not trying to be obtuse, it's just a pet peeve of mine.
Lol, I couldn’t care less how he spells his name. Just don’t serve up meatball pitches to him.
As opposed to the meatballs the Mets swung through last two games.
Every pitcher, every start is going to have mistake pitches. Except maybe 2021 deGrom. The Braves are better than us barrelling them.
I’ll put it to you this way…if the Braves pitchers made the same mistake pitches to our HR hitters, I’m confident that they would have hit them over the wall too.
I understand that the Braves hit a ton of HRs. But id expect our two ELITE pitchers to be smarter and better than to give up HRs to the same two hitters in consecutive games. We were all set up to neutralize that offense…we didn’t get it done.
We ran out our best two pitchers and their stars were able to perform - ours were not against 2 of their three best (Strider is the no. 2)
Now we can still win the division and even if we lose the division, we can still win the World Series - but the Braves are more talented. Those of you suggesting we're the superior team and just choked it away do not understand baseball.
Nothing else matters but that. You expect tough pitching and offenses will struggle but you can’t have your top guys pitch like this. Both pitchers were given the lead early in the game and could not hold it
And I'm in NC visiting my niece, and these southerners are so f'n obnoxious. :)
But I feel good about today. Giants win. Mets win. #LGM
And I'm in NC visiting my niece, and these southerners are so f'n obnoxious. :)
But I feel good about today. Giants win. Mets win. #LGM
they've had very few leads, which is why diaz has barely pitched in sept. just 7 appearances and 2 saves. every other month he had at least 10 appearances and between 4-7 saves.
buck has brought a level of professionalism to the team and i think mostly his tactics have been sound.
but for some reason this team has played it's worst down the stretch and simply lacked urgency. in some ways it's reminiscent of last august, but in others it's worse because last year it was at least the 100+ win LAD and SFG that knocked them out of first place for good on a tough road trip with a bunch of heart breaking 1 run losses. this is year they put themselves in the position they are in now by dropping games against the worst teams in the league in inexcusable fashion. and now we are seeing that it's not so easy to just turn it on against good competition.
even if they win today, do we have any confidence they will come out and sweep the nats in 3 to ensure they lock up the division? in fact if i were predicting the most likely outcome that's probably it, mets win today but braves take the division because they won't lose another game but mets will.
i know this got ranty but here's the last thing ill say - the mets are in this position because they didn't try to keep improving the team over the year. they were complacent. with the guys they had, with the catchers not producing, with the guys they traded for who didn't produce.
they need to recognize they can't be complacent and need to manage towards creating the best and most talented/prepared roster they can. imo that means letting Alvarez play C against WAS. if they thought his bat could give them lightning in a bottle as DH, imagine what it could do every day at C? Id also consider running vientos out there to see what happens. Vogelbach has been very mediocre for this entire slump. 740 ops with 3 extra base hits in sept is not going to get it done at DH. he is playing to his career average or slightly below and he's a known quantity. Vientos' walk rate is right there with him and in half as many at bats he has almost as many XBH. buck appears to not like him for whatever reason but he may be their best chance of lightning in a bottle because Alvarez has looked overmatched at the plate and unlike at C there's a higher expectation.
We ran out our best two pitchers and their stars were able to perform - ours were not against 2 of their three best (Strider is the no. 2)
Now we can still win the division and even if we lose the division, we can still win the World Series - but the Braves are more talented. Those of you suggesting we're the superior team and just choked it away do not understand baseball.
Braves definitely have a better lineup, and their pen is way better except at closer.
Mets starting pitching is better and starting pitching can often be decisive. But their two big starters did not step up. Lets see what the Hound does.
LFGM!
they've had very few leads, which is why diaz has barely pitched in sept. just 7 appearances and 2 saves. every other month he had at least 10 appearances and between 4-7 saves.
buck has brought a level of professionalism to the team and i think mostly his tactics have been sound.
but for some reason this team has played it's worst down the stretch and simply lacked urgency. in some ways it's reminiscent of last august, but in others it's worse because last year it was at least the 100+ win LAD and SFG that knocked them out of first place for good on a tough road trip with a bunch of heart breaking 1 run losses. this is year they put themselves in the position they are in now by dropping games against the worst teams in the league in inexcusable fashion. and now we are seeing that it's not so easy to just turn it on against good competition.
even if they win today, do we have any confidence they will come out and sweep the nats in 3 to ensure they lock up the division? in fact if i were predicting the most likely outcome that's probably it, mets win today but braves take the division because they won't lose another game but mets will.
i know this got ranty but here's the last thing ill say - the mets are in this position because they didn't try to keep improving the team over the year. they were complacent. with the guys they had, with the catchers not producing, with the guys they traded for who didn't produce.
they need to recognize they can't be complacent and need to manage towards creating the best and most talented/prepared roster they can. imo that means letting Alvarez play C against WAS. if they thought his bat could give them lightning in a bottle as DH, imagine what it could do every day at C? Id also consider running vientos out there to see what happens. Vogelbach has been very mediocre for this entire slump. 740 ops with 3 extra base hits in sept is not going to get it done at DH. he is playing to his career average or slightly below and he's a known quantity. Vientos' walk rate is right there with him and in half as many at bats he has almost as many XBH. buck appears to not like him for whatever reason but he may be their best chance of lightning in a bottle because Alvarez has looked overmatched at the plate and unlike at C there's a higher expectation.
Buck is 9-14 in postseason and has never won a playoff series.
Watching him manage down the stretch, I can see why. He seems to believe you should manage like its June. Maybe to help alleviate stress among the players.
But whatever his reason, it has not worked.
The Mets also refused to bring Vientos and Alvarez up to get them acclimated to ML pitching. Then they panicked and rushed Alvarez up for the last six games as if he is some kind of savior.
Willie Mays started his career 1 for 25. Even great hitters often need time to adjust to MLB. The way they handled the Vientos/Alvarez situation boggles the mind.
i agree that buck seems to like to ride his guys and let players feel like they are on scholarship. they did it with JDD and Dom for most of the first half even though they clearly didn't think much of them once they were banished. seems like he just thought they'd eventually come through or jdg/scherzer would just take care of business?
injuries are the only reasons baty, vientos, and alvarez saw as much time as they did. it is really sad that they went from burying them to putting alvarez in the unfair position they put him in this series. it's not fair to blame him but he did come up with less than 2 outs twice with more than 1 guy on base and both times had weak at bats.
LFGM!
I think Max and Jake pitched well - they did not pitch like cy young award winners - But you cant score 4 runs in 2 games against a +182 run differential and expect to shut them out
Most are saying it was a failure of our aces - I think the bats are still asleep, but Charlie may just be the wake up call we need. #LFGM
Marlins are shutting Alcantara down for the season.
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I also would not be surprised to if the Braves sweep the Marlins---even with Alcantara on the mound on the last day of the season---and if the Mets fail to sweep the worst team in MLB, the Gnats. This September run has been an overwhelming failure thus far. Today is crucial in many ways.
Marlins are shutting Alcantara down for the season.
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I also would not be surprised to if the Braves sweep the Marlins---even with Alcantara on the mound on the last day of the season---and if the Mets fail to sweep the worst team in MLB, the Gnats. This September run has been an overwhelming failure thus far. Today is crucial in many ways.
Marlins are shutting Alcantara down for the season.
I read that just afterwards. Wild. Like WTF happened between Mattingly saying he would pitch the last game of the season a few days ago and now? Shitty organization the Marlenes.