What are you going to with him on a contract? That matters given Barkley is a FA and multiple WRs and interior OL are needed plus defense rebuild still in works as well.
but he can’t stay on the field and his effectiveness depends on him being able to run. Can go year to year with a guy like that but big commitment seems like a bad idea.
2 rushing TD’s. If Jalen Hurts can get credit for his rushing TD’s why shouldn’t Jones? I still would not offer him a second contract, but he hasn’t been the issue he was in the past
Id offer two years at 35 mil with incentives. He wont be getting more as a backup anywhere and has no leverage. Its a smart move ifbthey end up 8-10 wins and out of the hunt for a QB in The draft.
Has always done well against poor defense, and that's what the bears had the first half. I'm surprised they didn't score more actually.
I also didn't think the offense missed much of a beat with TT for those few plays. I'd rather draft a QB but keep SB after what I've seen so far this year
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
Yeah how could we possibly replace those handoffs and 70 yards passing? He runs fast in a straight line. But that is not exactly a rare skill set in the NFL.
Also 3 Giant QBS who got their asses handed to them weekly and weren't NFL caliber players. Just because a guy takes a licking and is running for his life (and getting positive yardage) doesn't make him a piece to build around.
Franchising him isn't an option. This team is 3-1 because of Barkley, aggressive defense and most of all good coaching. I think Jones is a good guy and easy to root for, but he lacks the skills and intangibles to be an elite QB.
Settling for average to below average shouldn't be an option
RE: Jones greatest strength is also the greatest risk of committing to him
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
RE: As it stands today....and things could change...
Id offer two years at 35 mil with incentives. He wont be getting more as a backup anywhere and has no leverage. Its a smart move ifbthey end up 8-10 wins and out of the hunt for a QB in The draft.
I’d be fine with that. Leaves 2024 open for QB move still in draft. It’s looking pretty obvious they’ll be targeting WR in the early rounds of draft coming in 2023.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
Increasingly I’m lukewarm on this QB class. It looks like Stroud and a bunch of really questionable projections. I’m not in favor of trading a future one plus other picks to move up for anybody.
Giants have so many holes and depth problems on roster they need every draft pick they have next two drafts.
If it doesn't look likely, a short term contract wouldn't be such a bad idea. 2 yr/ 35 seems a bit high.
I wouldn't mind seeing TT getting a bit of action. Neither are the future, but one of them could be a reasonably priced bridge til we can draft the future.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
Increasingly I’m lukewarm on this QB class. It looks like Stroud and a bunch of really questionable projections. I’m not in favor of trading a future one plus other picks to move up for anybody.
Giants have so many holes and depth problems on roster they need every draft pick they have next two drafts.
It's okay to be lukewarm on this class. It's October 2nd, so it's too early to tell. And also, it might not be a good class. But the answer remains the same. If there is a QB they like, they'll do what most teams do: move earth to get their guy.
They have a QB on the roster signed thru next season to be the bus driver while they wait.
let's waste a few more on a qb of limited throwing skills. Some of you think that because Jones did some running, he's a good qb. He isn't. Face facts.
Who do replace him with? Who cares? He is not the goods, find someone who is.
Guy is tough and he’s made the most of a shit roster for the most part this year but you’d think he was a blood relative the way some people are emotionally invested in him
Sign him short term and fill all the other holes the team has
If you're daniel jones, and your future in the NFL depends on proving to the league you can play, is more years behind a rebuilding OL and no WRs actually helping you?
Sign him short term and fill all the other holes the team has
If you're daniel jones, and your future in the NFL depends on proving to the league you can play, is more years behind a rebuilding OL and no WRs actually helping you?
What team out there is giving him starter money? He has two choices....sign a team friendly short term contract and hope the oline and wr corps improves, or sign elsewhere as a backup and hipe for an injury so he can go in and try to prove himself. Id stay with the Gmen
Sign him short term and fill all the other holes the team has
If you're daniel jones, and your future in the NFL depends on proving to the league you can play, is more years behind a rebuilding OL and no WRs actually helping you?
What team out there is giving him starter money? He has two choices....sign a team friendly short term contract and hope the oline and wr corps improves, or sign elsewhere as a backup and hipe for an injury so he can go in and try to prove himself. Id stay with the Gmen
He will never see serious money if he puts up another year like this without being able to show that he can pass like a starting QB. No one's paying him starter money now because he has no chance to demonstrate he's worth it.
I don't see that happening in season when it's painfully clear the Giants don't have any WRs on the roster. It's a rare-form terrible talent situation.
...telling you Jones won't be back next season, what else could the new leadership group have done to convey the message?
*Refuse an affordable and team friendly 5th year option
*Sign a veteran backup to a 2 year deal
*Inquire about vet QB on the trading block (Wilson)
*Have visible scouting contingents at every game involving potential QB's in next years draft
And don't forget, design game plans that can best be described as "Please QB, don't fuck this up"
He will not be a Giant next year, and thats ok, life, and this team will go on
I respect a lot of your opinions, especially you, Susan
I mean Rob. But I'm not sure how you can come away thinking DJ is the answer going forward. DJ is winning with his legs, not his arm. We need a franchise QB, not a Taysom-Hill type of gadget player. I think it's pretty evident since he's been drafted that while DJ can beat you with his legs, he can't beat you with his arm.
I'm in the keep Jones camp partly because I think he can play at a high level IF he has a decent supporting cast, which he still doesn't have (WRs? none. OL? a work in progress. etc.) and partly because there simply isn't any actually viable replacement on the horizon at this point.
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all. We've seen that many, many, many first round QBs are busts (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc.) and effective QBs taken after the first round are rare as hen's teeth.
And there is simply nobody already in the NFL who will be available and worth the commitment.
For me, it's a bridge deal or let him go and start over once again. I like him. I think he has serious talent and is in a no win situation. Some say he can't carry a team. No one can carry the WR corps out there today. I would say he did carry them on his legs today. Sustainable? Doubtful. But under the circumstances, he won the game. And was a big reason why. IMHO.
I'm in the keep Jones camp partly because I think he can play at a high level IF he has a decent supporting cast, which he still doesn't have (WRs? none. OL? a work in progress. etc.) and partly because there simply isn't any actually viable replacement on the horizon at this point.
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all. We've seen that many, many, many first round QBs are busts (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc.) and effective QBs taken after the first round are rare as hen's teeth.
And there is simply nobody already in the NFL who will be available and worth the commitment.
Franchise Jones and see what happens.
Building up the roster is exactly the reason you shouldn't franchise Jones and commit $30 million. His production can be replaced by Marriota/Brissett tier QBs and that's assuming there are no rookies worth taking.
I'm in the keep Jones camp partly because I think he can play at a high level IF he has a decent supporting cast, which he still doesn't have (WRs? none. OL? a work in progress. etc.) and partly because there simply isn't any actually viable replacement on the horizon at this point.
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all. We've seen that many, many, many first round QBs are busts (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc.) and effective QBs taken after the first round are rare as hen's teeth.
And there is simply nobody already in the NFL who will be available and worth the commitment.
Franchise Jones and see what happens.
Getting rid of a player usually means replacing him with someone better. The cultish inststence that Jones is the worst qb in NFL history and can therefore be replaced by anyone who has ever picked up a football is part of the Jones hate obsession that has made this place so miserable.
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all.
That's really not a given anymore. Who's the last NFL QB that took 2-3 years to get going? Tua? Allen? How many others played well much earlier than that? Lamar, Herbert, Murray, Wilson? Even Mayfield.
But where are you going to find a player to replace him? NFL OL are huge men and there simply aren’t that many men that size. And a lot of C draft picks bust! Remember Weston Richburg?
We’ll need to sign Feliciano to a reasonable long term contract and build around him.
Look at his WR options. Hit Slayton on a deep ball, dropped.
He also ran for two touchdowns which should be considered.
He threw a deep ball. HOORAY! Cooper Rush threw a deep ball too last week.
Considered for what? He wins using on his legs, not his right arm. He's always had plenty of injuries and his athleticism is only going to get worse as he ages. Why would we invest in that?
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all. We've seen that many, many, many first round QBs are busts (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc.) and effective QBs taken after the first round are rare as hen's teeth.
Are you having selective amnesia?
Do you recognize the names Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, RG3, Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow?
RE: As it stands today....and things could change...
Id offer two years at 35 mil with incentives. He wont be getting more as a backup anywhere and has no leverage. Its a smart move ifbthey end up 8-10 wins and out of the hunt for a QB in The draft.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
So the last time they traded up for a QB the team wasn’t far removed from a Super Bowl appearance and there was talent on the roster and they could afford the hit in draft picks. The last time I checked this team hasn’t contended for a playoff appearance let alone the Super Bowl for a long time and there are way too many holes in this roster.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
Yeah how could we possibly replace those handoffs and 70 yards passing? He runs fast in a straight line. But that is not exactly a rare skill set in the NFL.
You didn’t answer the question who do you replace him with that is “better than him” also maybe you weren’t watching very closely but what WR on this roster is wide open running downfield while Jones is patting the ball behind the stone wall pass protection he gets on every down. I’ll wait for your answers.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
So the last time they traded up for a QB the team wasn’t far removed from a Super Bowl appearance and there was talent on the roster and they could afford the hit in draft picks. The last time I checked this team hasn’t contended for a playoff appearance let alone the Super Bowl for a long time and there are way too many holes in this roster.
They had talent but the 2004 Giants were not anything close to just a QB away. They remade the whole team once Coughlin got there. 3 of 5 of the OL was replaced between 2004 and 2005 offeseasons. Added Snee, O'Hara, and McKenzie. The offense was a mess. There were plenty of people on BBI however saying the same thing, don't go get a QB. Build around Collins.
Obviously Ernie had the wisdom to not take the 'safe' path.
Jones is doing exactly what the coaches are asking him to do
We have Barkley, the worst WR corp in football, and an OL that is better at run blocking than pass protection. They have devised a game plan based on Barkley, based on Jones running ability, and based on a lot of underneath passes.
My guess is they are looking for safe passes, heavy running from both Jones and Barkley, and no turnovers. If the Giants are 3-1, and Jones is executing the offense Daboll wants, then why wouldn't he be looked favorably upon?
Also I don't think we, as a team, can open up the offense with our Wr's. We need better WRs and the OL needs to improve its pass blocking, but for right now the coaching staff has identified the team strengths and put together a plan to win.
I think the best scenario is for Jones to keep improving, playing well, limit turnovers, and give us a chance to win….and that Schoen and Daboll become convinced Jones should be extended.
If that occurs, then instead of worrying about drafting a young unproven QB who may or may not be successful (see Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold) we can concentrate on fixing obvious holes…..like WR, OL, LB, CB.
Tagging a QB is like 30M, but Barkley would be less than 15M. I suppose you could buy one more year at 30M, but what for. It would be time to move on if you do not extend him.
They either resign him long term (no very long) or let him walk. Should be interesting. Someone will pay him if they get 7-8 wins this year, no matter how ugly they are.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
What is reasonable? The going rate is around $20M/yr. Even if they get him "cheap", it won't be less than $15M/yr. That is still too much, in my opinion, for a limited QB.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
What is reasonable? The going rate is around $20M/yr. Even if they get him "cheap", it won't be less than $15M/yr. That is still too much, in my opinion, for a limited QB.
Over the Cap lists 10 QBs making less than 10 mil/year & make more than DJ. On that list are Jimmy G, Mariota Trubisky, Darnold to name a few.
Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
So the last time they traded up for a QB the team wasn’t far removed from a Super Bowl appearance and there was talent on the roster and they could afford the hit in draft picks. The last time I checked this team hasn’t contended for a playoff appearance let alone the Super Bowl for a long time and there are way too many holes in this roster.
They had talent but the 2004 Giants were not anything close to just a QB away. They remade the whole team once Coughlin got there. 3 of 5 of the OL was replaced between 2004 and 2005 offeseasons. Added Snee, O'Hara, and McKenzie. The offense was a mess. There were plenty of people on BBI however saying the same thing, don't go get a QB. Build around Collins.
Obviously Ernie had the wisdom to not take the 'safe' path.
This team doesn’t have the same talent level the 2004 team did. Remember the team had a winning record with Warner at QB. The current team has no threat at either TE or WR the OL outside of Thomas can’t pass block and the D has been successful but still has holes at corner and LB. With all that being said they’re playing hard and beating teams in their weight class.
I do see that he has improved himself and his decision making - he also does not have any WRs to throw to or a complete Oline and he does seem to be making chicken salad out of chicken chit right now
is tough, smart, improving, has a limited O Line and has almost no NFL caliber receivers.
all that said, he is not Elite, and is likely not even 2nd tier. He is a serviceable QB with a skill set a great coach can work with but it isn't a long term solution that lends itself to a top tier team.
I will trust the coaching staff/FO to make the right decision re: Jones going forward but suspect they have already tipped their hand.
If Jones is as good as his supporters say he is, then why would he sign a cheap deal to stay? If he's not signing a cheap deal, how much harder would it be to make significant improvements in the offensive personnel surrounding him? Is the difference between Jones and Taylor significant enough to outweigh the likelihood of building a better supporting cast around Taylor?
because if you want Jones going forward its not considered based actual football?
Maaaaybe?? I don't know, cjac...I just like the way the guy plays the game and I believe he'll get better as he gets a more reliable cast around him. That's all. It's near impossible to get that "franchise" QB. There are maybe half a dozen right now that are "elite", agreed? I'm not claiming he is or ever will be elite. I just see a gutsy, gritty guy who has gone 8-8 over his last 16 starts, and 6-2 over his last 8. He's starting to win. He's fumbled once this season on a blindside hit and thrown one bad INT. The INT at the end of the Dallas game was a timing throw where the WR fell down on his own. We've all stated we wanted to see the turnovers down. So far, check. We've asked that he be more careful running and slide. So far, check. We've stated that he needs to start winning. So far, check. Now we need to see him step up and throw to subpar receivers and make some chicken salad out of chicken shit. He's done that running the ball, but not passing.
RE: As it stands today....and things could change...
Id offer two years at 35 mil with incentives. He wont be getting more as a backup anywhere and has no leverage. Its a smart move ifbthey end up 8-10 wins and out of the hunt for a QB in The draft.
I agree. Even a 1st round QB is a crap shoot. The only REAL weakness of Jones is injury. For those who said they didn't trust him to throw, I disagree. I think they didn't trust the oline to keep him upright. I'm fine with going with him if it can be done under the cap situation, and continue building the team. If a can't miss QB who they have a very strong conviction on happens to fall to us in the draft, then fine. The odds of that are pretty slim.
for me it depends on what they'll have to pay him. I don't think he's very highly regarded around the league by FOs and coaches. I don't think any fan base is saying wow Daniel Jones is a free agent if we could just get him we'd be set at QB. I think unless Daboll and Kafka think Jones can be a Super Bowl QB if they fill the holes around him the Giants FO will set a price for him and if it gets too rich they'll let him walk. It will happen before the draft so if he leaves they'll pivot to the draft. For all we know they may take a run at Lamar Jackson? I think they can create the cap money to do it if they want to.
Sorry in advance for how long this post is but I'm excited about the Giants for the first time in a decade. Regardless of whether Steve Tisch had to "force" John Mara to fire Joe Judge and go outside the organization for a GM and HC or they both were on the same page and knew it was time for drastic changes doesn't matter at this point. IMO since the day they fired Judge the Giants owners have done everything we could asked for even the ROH and throwback uniforms.
I think the Giants are finally on the right track. The new front office seems smart and the coaching staff has been great so far. But the current roster is so weak and out of the 10 very good or good players they have at least half of them are already injured. The draft class has been wrecked by injuries. Both 1st round picks are hurt. The 2nd round pick has missed the last 3 games with a knee injury and there's no time table for him to return. One of the 3rd round picks has a hamstring injury. Two other rookies tore ACLs in the pre season and are gone for the year. They needed those guys to play and most to start and they're all hurt already.
The Giants have 1 great player, Barkley and he's the reason they've beaten the teams that are in their weight class. They've also beat 2 crap QBs. Mayfield and Fields. Next two games are Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson. If they can win one of them the coaching staff should get their salaries doubled. After the Ravens they have 4 games in a row against teams in their weight class. Jags, Seahawks, Texans, Lions. I think they have a realistic chance to be 5-5 or even 6-4 after 10 games.
5 out of the last 7 are against the Eagles 2, Washington 2 and Dallas 1. I think if they get some players back and things break right, because of their schedule, they can win 9 games total. With this roster I think that's a miracle. I figured 5 or 6 tops when the season started. Normally with a roster like this I'd be rooting for a good draft slot but the Giants have been losers for so long getting wins no matter how ugly are huge for the new coaching staff, front office and us too. It feels great to see the Giants at 3-1. I'll enjoy it until next Sunday.
They have 60 million in cap space next year but Barkley is a FA and a RB (they can franchise him) and Jones is a free agent too. It speaks to the level of incompetence of the former GM that Daniel Jones is in his 4th year and the Giants have been so horrible it's almost impossible to tell if he can play or not. I have serious doubts about him. We know the concerns, he still locks in on one receiver, he's slow or doesn't scan the field, etc. but he's not making as many dumb mistakes and he's tough as hell. This is not Dave Brown we're talking about and John Mara spoke the truth when he said the Giants have given him no support.
To be fair and try to be objective about him, not only didn't he have a single receiver that could make a good teams roster let alone start yesterday, the center and both guards are at best backup level. The rookie RT who is learning on the job, left the game and was replaced by an undrafted free agent. The TE's are a 4th round rookie and another undrafted free agent. How would the elite QBs do with those guys protecting them and as their playmakers?
The HC last year was coaching Josh Allen and the OC was coaching Patrick Mahomes. If those guys think they can win with Jones going forward I'll trust them because it's impossible for me to know with this roster.
with the Jones sucks crowd denying the realities of finding his replacement
Comparing it to the Eli draft is pointless since the Giants wont be picking 4th and there arent 3 QBs available like Eli, Ben, and Rivers
And the usual blather about how a handful of drafted QBs have stepped right in recently while not listing the 100 QBs who recently failed
Finding an elite QB is hard. Finding even an above average QB is hard. Look at the Bears - they are now stuck with their 2nd straight blown QB choice
Like it or not, who is available as a replacement has to factor into the Jones decision
Speaking of usual blather, another post on just staying with what we have and not trying to improve even if it has some risk.
And I don't like going back too far too in commenting on today's NFL, but since you posted about it, in 2004 Ben was taken #11 by Steelers so it's actually possible to find QBs after #4.
And most if not all fans know that finding an elite or even good QB is hard. Does that really need to be said? The very fact that Schoen did not even use one pick on a QB in the last draft (a weak QB draft) tells us something.
What really needs to be said when I see posts like yours, is that I can assure you that the Giants will never, ever find their next franchise guy without some good in-depth evaluations on the college QB ranks and, god forbid, taking some risks/chances on one of them in a future draft. It's a certainty.
finding a QB is hard = / = we should avoid that and try to win with a shitty one.
this is not an either/or Daniel Jones or "the field" decision, and it's disingenuous to suggest that Schoen or Daboll or anyone else with the Giants is framing the decision that way. they're not sitting around saying "gee, should we keep Daniel or get rid of him?" they are thinking about who his replacement could be, because that's their job, and they certainly have their eyes on specific QBs already, both in college and in the NFL.
I said in another thread but I'd be more than fine giving him another year with this coaching staff the way they can clearly game plan around him much better if he was on his rookie deal.
He won't be and it is the likely cost that makes many think of him as a bad idea. And it isn't just the cost, it is the cost plus the fact that given that cost we are unlikely to spend the resources needed to bring in a replacement that doesn't have a league average ceiling.
Yes, it would. Franchising him alone would eat almost half the team’s available cap space.
Hard pass.
8 for 13 71 yards passing 0 TDs
Total stud.
JFC.
8 for 13 71 yards passing 0 TDs
Total stud.
JFC.
2 rushing TD’s. If Jalen Hurts can get credit for his rushing TD’s why shouldn’t Jones? I still would not offer him a second contract, but he hasn’t been the issue he was in the past
8 for 13 71 yards passing 0 TDs
Total stud.
JFC.
How many drops and how many people were open?
And I guess you just forgot his 2 TDs and about 90 yards rushing.
More important is he is injured again - that is my limiting factor.
I also didn't think the offense missed much of a beat with TT for those few plays. I'd rather draft a QB but keep SB after what I've seen so far this year
Yeah how could we possibly replace those handoffs and 70 yards passing? He runs fast in a straight line. But that is not exactly a rare skill set in the NFL.
Franchising him isn't an option. This team is 3-1 because of Barkley, aggressive defense and most of all good coaching. I think Jones is a good guy and easy to root for, but he lacks the skills and intangibles to be an elite QB.
Settling for average to below average shouldn't be an option
yep
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
I’d be fine with that. Leaves 2024 open for QB move still in draft. It’s looking pretty obvious they’ll be targeting WR in the early rounds of draft coming in 2023.
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Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
Increasingly I’m lukewarm on this QB class. It looks like Stroud and a bunch of really questionable projections. I’m not in favor of trading a future one plus other picks to move up for anybody.
Giants have so many holes and depth problems on roster they need every draft pick they have next two drafts.
If it doesn't look likely, a short term contract wouldn't be such a bad idea. 2 yr/ 35 seems a bit high.
I wouldn't mind seeing TT getting a bit of action. Neither are the future, but one of them could be a reasonably priced bridge til we can draft the future.
Too early to talk about the future, though.
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In comment 15841998 Paul326 said:
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Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
Increasingly I’m lukewarm on this QB class. It looks like Stroud and a bunch of really questionable projections. I’m not in favor of trading a future one plus other picks to move up for anybody.
Giants have so many holes and depth problems on roster they need every draft pick they have next two drafts.
It's okay to be lukewarm on this class. It's October 2nd, so it's too early to tell. And also, it might not be a good class. But the answer remains the same. If there is a QB they like, they'll do what most teams do: move earth to get their guy.
They have a QB on the roster signed thru next season to be the bus driver while they wait.
Who do replace him with? Who cares? He is not the goods, find someone who is.
If you're daniel jones, and your future in the NFL depends on proving to the league you can play, is more years behind a rebuilding OL and no WRs actually helping you?
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Sign him short term and fill all the other holes the team has
If you're daniel jones, and your future in the NFL depends on proving to the league you can play, is more years behind a rebuilding OL and no WRs actually helping you?
What team out there is giving him starter money? He has two choices....sign a team friendly short term contract and hope the oline and wr corps improves, or sign elsewhere as a backup and hipe for an injury so he can go in and try to prove himself. Id stay with the Gmen
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In comment 15842111 AG5686 said:
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Sign him short term and fill all the other holes the team has
If you're daniel jones, and your future in the NFL depends on proving to the league you can play, is more years behind a rebuilding OL and no WRs actually helping you?
What team out there is giving him starter money? He has two choices....sign a team friendly short term contract and hope the oline and wr corps improves, or sign elsewhere as a backup and hipe for an injury so he can go in and try to prove himself. Id stay with the Gmen
He will never see serious money if he puts up another year like this without being able to show that he can pass like a starting QB. No one's paying him starter money now because he has no chance to demonstrate he's worth it.
I don't see that happening in season when it's painfully clear the Giants don't have any WRs on the roster. It's a rare-form terrible talent situation.
*Refuse an affordable and team friendly 5th year option
*Sign a veteran backup to a 2 year deal
*Inquire about vet QB on the trading block (Wilson)
*Have visible scouting contingents at every game involving potential QB's in next years draft
And don't forget, design game plans that can best be described as "Please QB, don't fuck this up"
He will not be a Giant next year, and thats ok, life, and this team will go on
We need a franchise QB. A real one.
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all. We've seen that many, many, many first round QBs are busts (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc.) and effective QBs taken after the first round are rare as hen's teeth.
And there is simply nobody already in the NFL who will be available and worth the commitment.
Franchise Jones and see what happens.
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all. We've seen that many, many, many first round QBs are busts (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc.) and effective QBs taken after the first round are rare as hen's teeth.
And there is simply nobody already in the NFL who will be available and worth the commitment.
Franchise Jones and see what happens.
Building up the roster is exactly the reason you shouldn't franchise Jones and commit $30 million. His production can be replaced by Marriota/Brissett tier QBs and that's assuming there are no rookies worth taking.
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all. We've seen that many, many, many first round QBs are busts (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc.) and effective QBs taken after the first round are rare as hen's teeth.
And there is simply nobody already in the NFL who will be available and worth the commitment.
Franchise Jones and see what happens.
Getting rid of a player usually means replacing him with someone better. The cultish inststence that Jones is the worst qb in NFL history and can therefore be replaced by anyone who has ever picked up a football is part of the Jones hate obsession that has made this place so miserable.
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all.
That's really not a given anymore. Who's the last NFL QB that took 2-3 years to get going? Tua? Allen? How many others played well much earlier than that? Lamar, Herbert, Murray, Wilson? Even Mayfield.
We’ll need to sign Feliciano to a reasonable long term contract and build around him.
Unless he's rehabbing a major injury, the short term low cost deal makes no sense from either side
8 for 13 71 yards passing 0 TDs
Total stud.
JFC.
Look at his WR options. Hit Slayton on a deep ball, dropped.
He also ran for two touchdowns which should be considered.
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Of course you would want to keep him.
8 for 13 71 yards passing 0 TDs
Total stud.
JFC.
Look at his WR options. Hit Slayton on a deep ball, dropped.
He also ran for two touchdowns which should be considered.
He threw a deep ball. HOORAY! Cooper Rush threw a deep ball too last week.
Considered for what? He wins using on his legs, not his right arm. He's always had plenty of injuries and his athleticism is only going to get worse as he ages. Why would we invest in that?
Any rookie will take 2 or 3 years to get up to speed, and that's only IF he's any good at all. We've seen that many, many, many first round QBs are busts (Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold, etc.) and effective QBs taken after the first round are rare as hen's teeth.
Are you having selective amnesia?
Do you recognize the names Justin Herbert, Lamar Jackson, Andrew Luck, Russell Wilson, RG3, Kyler Murray, Joe Burrow?
Is that in American dollars?
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Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
So the last time they traded up for a QB the team wasn’t far removed from a Super Bowl appearance and there was talent on the roster and they could afford the hit in draft picks. The last time I checked this team hasn’t contended for a playoff appearance let alone the Super Bowl for a long time and there are way too many holes in this roster.
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Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
Yeah how could we possibly replace those handoffs and 70 yards passing? He runs fast in a straight line. But that is not exactly a rare skill set in the NFL.
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In comment 15841998 Paul326 said:
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Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
So the last time they traded up for a QB the team wasn’t far removed from a Super Bowl appearance and there was talent on the roster and they could afford the hit in draft picks. The last time I checked this team hasn’t contended for a playoff appearance let alone the Super Bowl for a long time and there are way too many holes in this roster.
They had talent but the 2004 Giants were not anything close to just a QB away. They remade the whole team once Coughlin got there. 3 of 5 of the OL was replaced between 2004 and 2005 offeseasons. Added Snee, O'Hara, and McKenzie. The offense was a mess. There were plenty of people on BBI however saying the same thing, don't go get a QB. Build around Collins.
Obviously Ernie had the wisdom to not take the 'safe' path.
My guess is they are looking for safe passes, heavy running from both Jones and Barkley, and no turnovers. If the Giants are 3-1, and Jones is executing the offense Daboll wants, then why wouldn't he be looked favorably upon?
Also I don't think we, as a team, can open up the offense with our Wr's. We need better WRs and the OL needs to improve its pass blocking, but for right now the coaching staff has identified the team strengths and put together a plan to win.
If they do, do you think you know more than them? Besides being a fan, any other football attributes that make you elite?
If that occurs, then instead of worrying about drafting a young unproven QB who may or may not be successful (see Rosen, Mayfield, Darnold) we can concentrate on fixing obvious holes…..like WR, OL, LB, CB.
They either resign him long term (no very long) or let him walk. Should be interesting. Someone will pay him if they get 7-8 wins this year, no matter how ugly they are.
Horseshit
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Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
What is reasonable? The going rate is around $20M/yr. Even if they get him "cheap", it won't be less than $15M/yr. That is still too much, in my opinion, for a limited QB.
He hasn't proved that by a long shot. Please watch other QBs.
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In comment 15842025 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 15841998 Paul326 said:
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Who do you replace Jones with? The team is probably going to finish with 8-10 wins so that puts them out of the top QB race so what potential FA QB (which is going to cost big bucks) are you looking at that will give the team more than DJ is doing with no real WR threats. Then there are holes all over the roster that need to be filled which aren't going to be filled with FA's even with a better cap situation so you need the draft picks. So you sign DJ to a reasonable short term prove it deal and build the roster up and then revisit after the 2023 season.
The obvious answer to this is, it will look like what the Giants did last time they liked a QB: They traded up to get one. If there is a QB they like, they will do what is necessary to get one. It doesn't mean spending money on a free agent QB or sitting still at the single draft spot they earn.
So the last time they traded up for a QB the team wasn’t far removed from a Super Bowl appearance and there was talent on the roster and they could afford the hit in draft picks. The last time I checked this team hasn’t contended for a playoff appearance let alone the Super Bowl for a long time and there are way too many holes in this roster.
They had talent but the 2004 Giants were not anything close to just a QB away. They remade the whole team once Coughlin got there. 3 of 5 of the OL was replaced between 2004 and 2005 offeseasons. Added Snee, O'Hara, and McKenzie. The offense was a mess. There were plenty of people on BBI however saying the same thing, don't go get a QB. Build around Collins.
Obviously Ernie had the wisdom to not take the 'safe' path.
This team doesn’t have the same talent level the 2004 team did. Remember the team had a winning record with Warner at QB. The current team has no threat at either TE or WR the OL outside of Thomas can’t pass block and the D has been successful but still has holes at corner and LB. With all that being said they’re playing hard and beating teams in their weight class.
Stick to hoops
Can he say on the field and keep winning?
all that said, he is not Elite, and is likely not even 2nd tier. He is a serviceable QB with a skill set a great coach can work with but it isn't a long term solution that lends itself to a top tier team.
I will trust the coaching staff/FO to make the right decision re: Jones going forward but suspect they have already tipped their hand.
That's his ceiling? Gotta disagree with you there. Again, his arm isn't that strong.
Maaaaybe?? I don't know, cjac...I just like the way the guy plays the game and I believe he'll get better as he gets a more reliable cast around him. That's all. It's near impossible to get that "franchise" QB. There are maybe half a dozen right now that are "elite", agreed? I'm not claiming he is or ever will be elite. I just see a gutsy, gritty guy who has gone 8-8 over his last 16 starts, and 6-2 over his last 8. He's starting to win. He's fumbled once this season on a blindside hit and thrown one bad INT. The INT at the end of the Dallas game was a timing throw where the WR fell down on his own. We've all stated we wanted to see the turnovers down. So far, check. We've asked that he be more careful running and slide. So far, check. We've stated that he needs to start winning. So far, check. Now we need to see him step up and throw to subpar receivers and make some chicken salad out of chicken shit. He's done that running the ball, but not passing.
I agree. Even a 1st round QB is a crap shoot. The only REAL weakness of Jones is injury. For those who said they didn't trust him to throw, I disagree. I think they didn't trust the oline to keep him upright. I'm fine with going with him if it can be done under the cap situation, and continue building the team. If a can't miss QB who they have a very strong conviction on happens to fall to us in the draft, then fine. The odds of that are pretty slim.
Comparing it to the Eli draft is pointless since the Giants wont be picking 4th and there arent 3 QBs available like Eli, Ben, and Rivers
And the usual blather about how a handful of drafted QBs have stepped right in recently while not listing the 100 QBs who recently failed
Finding an elite QB is hard. Finding even an above average QB is hard. Look at the Bears - they are now stuck with their 2nd straight blown QB choice
Like it or not, who is available as a replacement has to factor into the Jones decision
Sorry in advance for how long this post is but I'm excited about the Giants for the first time in a decade. Regardless of whether Steve Tisch had to "force" John Mara to fire Joe Judge and go outside the organization for a GM and HC or they both were on the same page and knew it was time for drastic changes doesn't matter at this point. IMO since the day they fired Judge the Giants owners have done everything we could asked for even the ROH and throwback uniforms.
I think the Giants are finally on the right track. The new front office seems smart and the coaching staff has been great so far. But the current roster is so weak and out of the 10 very good or good players they have at least half of them are already injured. The draft class has been wrecked by injuries. Both 1st round picks are hurt. The 2nd round pick has missed the last 3 games with a knee injury and there's no time table for him to return. One of the 3rd round picks has a hamstring injury. Two other rookies tore ACLs in the pre season and are gone for the year. They needed those guys to play and most to start and they're all hurt already.
The Giants have 1 great player, Barkley and he's the reason they've beaten the teams that are in their weight class. They've also beat 2 crap QBs. Mayfield and Fields. Next two games are Aaron Rodgers and Lamar Jackson. If they can win one of them the coaching staff should get their salaries doubled. After the Ravens they have 4 games in a row against teams in their weight class. Jags, Seahawks, Texans, Lions. I think they have a realistic chance to be 5-5 or even 6-4 after 10 games.
5 out of the last 7 are against the Eagles 2, Washington 2 and Dallas 1. I think if they get some players back and things break right, because of their schedule, they can win 9 games total. With this roster I think that's a miracle. I figured 5 or 6 tops when the season started. Normally with a roster like this I'd be rooting for a good draft slot but the Giants have been losers for so long getting wins no matter how ugly are huge for the new coaching staff, front office and us too. It feels great to see the Giants at 3-1. I'll enjoy it until next Sunday.
They have 60 million in cap space next year but Barkley is a FA and a RB (they can franchise him) and Jones is a free agent too. It speaks to the level of incompetence of the former GM that Daniel Jones is in his 4th year and the Giants have been so horrible it's almost impossible to tell if he can play or not. I have serious doubts about him. We know the concerns, he still locks in on one receiver, he's slow or doesn't scan the field, etc. but he's not making as many dumb mistakes and he's tough as hell. This is not Dave Brown we're talking about and John Mara spoke the truth when he said the Giants have given him no support.
To be fair and try to be objective about him, not only didn't he have a single receiver that could make a good teams roster let alone start yesterday, the center and both guards are at best backup level. The rookie RT who is learning on the job, left the game and was replaced by an undrafted free agent. The TE's are a 4th round rookie and another undrafted free agent. How would the elite QBs do with those guys protecting them and as their playmakers?
The HC last year was coaching Josh Allen and the OC was coaching Patrick Mahomes. If those guys think they can win with Jones going forward I'll trust them because it's impossible for me to know with this roster.
Comparing it to the Eli draft is pointless since the Giants wont be picking 4th and there arent 3 QBs available like Eli, Ben, and Rivers
And the usual blather about how a handful of drafted QBs have stepped right in recently while not listing the 100 QBs who recently failed
Finding an elite QB is hard. Finding even an above average QB is hard. Look at the Bears - they are now stuck with their 2nd straight blown QB choice
Like it or not, who is available as a replacement has to factor into the Jones decision
Speaking of usual blather, another post on just staying with what we have and not trying to improve even if it has some risk.
And I don't like going back too far too in commenting on today's NFL, but since you posted about it, in 2004 Ben was taken #11 by Steelers so it's actually possible to find QBs after #4.
And most if not all fans know that finding an elite or even good QB is hard. Does that really need to be said? The very fact that Schoen did not even use one pick on a QB in the last draft (a weak QB draft) tells us something.
What really needs to be said when I see posts like yours, is that I can assure you that the Giants will never, ever find their next franchise guy without some good in-depth evaluations on the college QB ranks and, god forbid, taking some risks/chances on one of them in a future draft. It's a certainty.
this is not an either/or Daniel Jones or "the field" decision, and it's disingenuous to suggest that Schoen or Daboll or anyone else with the Giants is framing the decision that way. they're not sitting around saying "gee, should we keep Daniel or get rid of him?" they are thinking about who his replacement could be, because that's their job, and they certainly have their eyes on specific QBs already, both in college and in the NFL.
Comparing it to the Eli draft is pointless since the Giants wont be picking 4th and there arent 3 QBs available like Eli, Ben, and Rivers
And the usual blather about how a handful of drafted QBs have stepped right in recently while not listing the 100 QBs who recently failed
Finding an elite QB is hard. Finding even an above average QB is hard. Look at the Bears - they are now stuck with their 2nd straight blown QB choice
Like it or not, who is available as a replacement has to factor into the Jones decision
Is Daniel Jones better than Cooper Rush?
He won't be and it is the likely cost that makes many think of him as a bad idea. And it isn't just the cost, it is the cost plus the fact that given that cost we are unlikely to spend the resources needed to bring in a replacement that doesn't have a league average ceiling.