I try to be fluid in my opinions, and I know I’ve been labeled a “Jones hater” by some, but I want to state these two opinions:
1. Daniel Jones was really good today. He doesn’t suck like some say, he’s not a loser as some say. He has a legitimate NFL skill set and you can win with him. I loved the designed runs today, and he made some really nice throws. I hope his injury isn’t serious.
2. Often times posters want to trade players for anything. I’m sorry, but trading Saquon Barkley for a 3rd round pick is ridiculous. Would you trade Barkley for Matt Peart (who was a 3rd rounder)? There is no way I’m just giving this guy away.
Thrilled to be 3-1.
Remember, the trade deadline is Nov. 1st and trading Barkley essentially means that the Giants are giving up on the season, with 9 games left to play.
As for this game being some sort of "mind changer" on Jones... let's get real.
Bears weren't setting the edge in the first half and those 2 TD runs were there for the taking.
Meanwhile, I think I saw that Jones only passed for 84 yards.
Not putting Jones down, as he's working with crappy WRs at this point, but again, I don't know how anyone changes their mind about Jones after this game.
This! 71 yards won't cut it.
That’s true. It’s a specific game you need to win. However, Jones skill set allowed that today.
Ultimately it’s about throwing the ball.
Why pretend we have any receivers.
Consistency.
Availability.
The rest of the year matters. More games like today than not, and I'm in. I want to see more.
Jones played a really good game today. Anyone saying anything else isn’t being honest. He does have talent, and his running is legit dangerous.
I have not changed my view on not re-signing him next year, but the kid has some talent and he can carve himself a nice career with it. It’s ok to acknowledge that he has good games and bad games, and these last two were pretty good.
I think the stats correctly portray Jones’ day: very good straight line running —and a passing game that looks straight out of the 1960s.
I don’t get it Sean.
I think the stats correctly portray Jones’ day: very good straight line running —and a passing game that looks straight out of the 1960s.
I don’t get it Sean.
I think it’s interesting and telling Tyrod comes in and they immediately went down field
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He completed a bunch of easy short passes. When they go downfield to Slayton, Jones throws an inaccurate toss.
I think the stats correctly portray Jones’ day: very good straight line running —and a passing game that looks straight out of the 1960s.
I don’t get it Sean.
I think it’s interesting and telling Tyrod comes in and they immediately went down field
It is...and he threw a pick. Almost like there is a reason Jones doesn't throw into coverage.
I think the stats correctly portray Jones’ day: very good straight line running —and a passing game that looks straight out of the 1960s.
I don’t get it Sean.
He hit Slayton in the hands...unbelievable...
Jones has thrown so many passes in the outstretched hands of Slayton that Slayton has dropped...God for bid an NFL WR have to make an adjustment and catch a ball that hits him in both hands.
Bullshit. Slayton had separated from the DB. It was a carch every pro WR should make
2. Trading Saquon for a third round pick is lunacy. This team is 0-4 without Saquon easy.
It's a major concern if the ankle injury impacts his ability to run.
Saquon playing for big money contract. Looks great. Let someone else make the mistake of signing him long term. The contract he’ll want will not pay off. No rb contracts do.
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This game plan probably doesn’t work in any other game this year
That’s true. It’s a specific game you need to win. However, Jones skill set allowed that today.
Ultimately it’s about throwing the ball.
Nobody says he has to be the starter. What if we find our franchise QB on the franchise QB tree that is growing somewhere.
Having DJ as a solid backup at the right price would be a good thing. He would probably be the best backup in the league.
If there are teams willing to pay him $$ to be their starter, then we can let him go if we have a better alternative.
Agree all three clauses above, Mike. And, yes, your posts have put you squarely in the header category (:
Props to you and Sean for being upfront and fair, unlike some. I did think you started one of the worst threads this year (think it was a thread and not just a post) a couple of weeks ago in which you argued, questioned, re. the Jones defenders, why was it Golladay wasn't receiving equal defenders, tantamount to equating Golladay with Jones in their 'contributions' to the team. Even christian, another very good poster, said, excellent post. I may have the nuance of the equation wrong but the gist was unmistakable. It was jaw dropping to me.
We agree Jones' has shortcomings and it is easy to see why Schoen and Daboll may well want to move on from him. But their hands may be tied, hamstrung, in getting at a top tier prospect.
Sorry cos, but just because Jones didn’t lead him doesn’t mean it was a bad pass. Slayton still should have caught it, with or without the interference.
And I would add, if I’m the Bears’ HC, I’d consider firing my DC. Their backside defense was fucking embarrassing.
And I would add, if I’m the Bears’ HC, I’d consider firing my DC. Their backside defense was fucking embarrassing.
This is the best way to win for this personnel. Kafka called a great game and Jones executed.
This was the best designed offensive gamelan all year. To win a game with the WRs they had out there, and then without a QB was awesome.
He only threw 13X, 71 yards, 0 TDs and a 5+ YPA.
My guess is the running overall, the rushing TDs and no turnovers carried a lot of weight.
We had a rough WR group as it was. Then, you remove Shepard, Toney and Robinson from the equation and factor in that Kenny Golladay is one of the worst FA signings in team history in addition to one of the weakest TE groups in the league, and you're left with a group of total question marks.
I said before the year started that to get the most out of Jones, the Giants would need to utilize his legs more. Bootlegs, designed keeps, etc. Exactly what we saw today. The problem is that playing this way with Jones is going to land him on the sidelines more often than not.
But until he has more reliable pass-catchers, this is going to be one of the only ways the Giants can keep moving the ball.
It sucks that in a year where we really need to know what we do or don't have, he's going to be so hard to evaluate due to circumstances beyond his control.
Gun to my head, I still don't think he's the guy long-term... but I've seen things from him the last couple of weeks that say he's still got some room to grow and get better and he does have some good tools.
I'd love to see the guy with a respectable group of skill players and a decent line.
There were names thrown out that were referenced as being better than Jones on here, I want to say Nick Mullens. And that just isn’t fair. He’s done more than that.
It’s not a “Jones should stay” thread, but he deserves some credit. His legs allowed Kafka to call the game he called.
Jones is one of the worst starting QBs in the league
Jones is one of the worst starting QBs in the league
And the irony is you don't need that great RB to be a team that consistently competes for the biggest stakes.
It's a luxury if you have the other, more important pieces set up - QB, OL, receivers.
I’ve read people say that no one is trading a first for Saquon and you have to take a 2nd or 3rd because he’s a running back.
what can they contribute?
how much would it cost to replace/upgrade that?
for barkley, it's pretty simple. tagging him (or extending) is the same AAV as the open market rate for evan engram, so it's basically a no brainer since we are lacking for any skill players worth touching the football. running backs may be replaceable but he is a legitimate super star who can do it all. i think they may have a real decision to make at the deadline because someone like the Rams or KC could put a big offer on the table for him, but short of getting a haul i think they'd be wise to extend him early on a deal similar to chubb. as a guy who has had health issues and seems to like it here i think that's a win-win.
the outcome with jones is more uncertain. he continues to show that he has legitimate talent/toughness, makes subtle improvements, and is at least a 'win with' QB. i don't know if there's more than that but I do know you aren't finding anything better in free agency at a reasonable price - so i expect them to retain him at least through the draft because that's the only realistic way to upgrade him.
i dont think it's a certainty either guy gets another contract here but id root for both of them wherever they go because they seem like good leaders and hard workers who would do anything in their power to help this org win games.
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What I have read a lot of (and typed myself) is if a team is offering a FIRST round pick, they have to at least seriously considered it.
I’ve read people say that no one is trading a first for Saquon and you have to take a 2nd or 3rd because he’s a running back.
Certainly a 3rd at this point would make zero sense. I think we would get that as a comp pick. If someone is offering a first, I agree it should be considered...and that goes for any player on this team. Saquon does have an injury history and RBs usually have short careers. That being said...I'm glad he is out there running his ass off for us and got us to 3-1
But, hypothetically, if there was a GM out there who was willing to play ball, we'd be nuts not to seriously consider that deal. Trading Barkley will hurt in the very near term, but if we draft well with whatever we get in return, a team that's significantly more talented in 2023 will make us forget that pain in short order.
There were names thrown out that were referenced as being better than Jones on here, I want to say Nick Mullens. And that just isn’t fair. He’s done more than that.
It’s not a “Jones should stay” thread, but he deserves some credit. His legs allowed Kafka to call the game he called.
Looks to me like he's turning into Alex Smith.
Took Smith awhile to get going and with the right coach.
Also - DJ looks like he's more confident handling both the ball and pressure.
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He completed a bunch of easy short passes. When they go downfield to Slayton, Jones throws an inaccurate toss.
I think the stats correctly portray Jones’ day: very good straight line running —and a passing game that looks straight out of the 1960s.
I don’t get it Sean.
I think it’s interesting and telling Tyrod comes in and they immediately went down field
And threw a pick.
If this injury is minor and he misses little time I think he is on his way to being the QB of the Giants next year. He stats are so/so. But he is leading a questionable team to wins.
Richie James
David Sills
Kenny Golladay
Golladay didn't catch a single pass and is basically non-existent. Meanwhile the rest of the crew would never even start on any other NFL team.
Our leading receiver was rookie TE Bellinger. TE Tanner Hudson had more receiving yards than anyone of the WR's.
Who exactly sould Jones be throwing those deep passes to? Can anyone on this team get some separation? Does he have a Davante Adams? Stephan Diggs? Cooper Kupp? Justin Jefferson? He has absolutely no one and somehow still found a way to win.
I'm not saying he's the long term answer. But what's clear to me is that if you give him a little more protection and one or two NFL level WRs, you can most certainly win with him.
I think the stats correctly portray Jones’ day: very good straight line running —and a passing game that looks straight out of the 1960s.
I don’t get it Sean.
How was the pass to Slayton inaccurate. Last time I checked hitting a WR in both hands qualifies as an accurate pass.
How are you able to know that the decision to not go downfield is a lack of faith in DJ's ability to throw downfield versus WRs unable to get open downfield. You can't. You're assuming, but I think it's a better assumption that Sills, James, and the other members of the parade of horribles that is our WR room cannot seprate downfield.
The Taylor throw for an interception. I thought our receiver was getting pulled down from behind by the one defender and couldn't compete for the ball at the very end. No?
I liked both balls going downfield though for a change. And the latter one wound up being helpful since it was like a good punt and backed them up on the goaline.
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He completed a bunch of easy short passes. When they go downfield to Slayton, Jones throws an inaccurate toss.
I think the stats correctly portray Jones’ day: very good straight line running —and a passing game that looks straight out of the 1960s.
I don’t get it Sean.
How was the pass to Slayton inaccurate. Last time I checked hitting a WR in both hands qualifies as an accurate pass.
Slayton had to adjust and slow down when he had his CB beat.
It’s like Giants fans have forgotten what quality NFL passing is.
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...I have not changed my view on not re-signing him next year, but the kid has some talent and he can carve himself a nice career with it. It’s ok to acknowledge that he has good games and bad games, and these last two were pretty good.
Agree all three clauses above, Mike. And, yes, your posts have put you squarely in the header category (:
Props to you and Sean for being upfront and fair, unlike some. I did think you started one of the worst threads this year (think it was a thread and not just a post) a couple of weeks ago in which you argued, questioned, re. the Jones defenders, why was it Golladay wasn't receiving equal defenders, tantamount to equating Golladay with Jones in their 'contributions' to the team. Even christian, another very good poster, said, excellent post. I may have the nuance of the equation wrong but the gist was unmistakable. It was jaw dropping to me.
We agree Jones' has shortcomings and it is easy to see why Schoen and Daboll may well want to move on from him. But their hands may be tied, hamstrung, in getting at a top tier prospect.
It was probably jaw dropping to you because you misunderstood it. I never compared Jones contribution to the team to Golladay’s or equated them. Not even a little.
What I asked (in a post, not a thread) was “How can we not evaluate Jones because the players around him suck?” When it is clear that we can fully evaluate Golladay with literally the exact same team around him?
Chicken and the egg question. Both have poor production, both depend on the other to produce, but one is clearly bad and the other a mystery?
If this injury is minor and he misses little time I think he is on his way to being the QB of the Giants next year. He stats are so/so. But he is leading a questionable team to wins.
Hilarious in that it was TT that got clunked on the noggin on a run by not protecting himself. Jones got rolled up on what amounts to a sack...and Jones slid a few times.
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The biggest issue in my mind with Jones at this point is availability. The guy will not slide and that is a recipe for injury in the NFL.
If this injury is minor and he misses little time I think he is on his way to being the QB of the Giants next year. He stats are so/so. But he is leading a questionable team to wins.
Hilarious in that it was TT that got clunked on the noggin on a run by not protecting himself. Jones got rolled up on what amounts to a sack...and Jones slid a few times.
I can't fault Taylor for that play. At that point he was just trying to get the first down and seal the game - he likely doesn't risk his body in another scenario.
But it's irrefutable at this point that Daniel Jones is just injury prone. The reason why he gets injured so much isn't really even important.
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In comment 15843471 AnnapolisMike said:
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The biggest issue in my mind with Jones at this point is availability. The guy will not slide and that is a recipe for injury in the NFL.
If this injury is minor and he misses little time I think he is on his way to being the QB of the Giants next year. He stats are so/so. But he is leading a questionable team to wins.
Hilarious in that it was TT that got clunked on the noggin on a run by not protecting himself. Jones got rolled up on what amounts to a sack...and Jones slid a few times.
I can't fault Taylor for that play. At that point he was just trying to get the first down and seal the game - he likely doesn't risk his body in another scenario.
But it's irrefutable at this point that Daniel Jones is just injury prone. The reason why he gets injured so much isn't really even important.
I think of all the reasons to move on from Jones, his inability to stay healthy is the most important. He has absolutely improved under Daboll, but the injury bug pops up again.
It is ironic that Schoen and Daboll, knowing Jones injury history, signed TT to a biggish backup QB contract and then TT goes out and gets injured about 12 plays after he steps on the field.
And I did not have an issue with TT going for the 1st down. It was necessary at that point of the game.