We had good news today in the Giants-Bears game, so hopefully things carry over into this game. The third and final game of this series starts in a little over an hour. It's the last chance for the Mets to exit this series the same way they entered it: in control of their destiny to win the division. The game will be on ESPN and is the game of the year up until this point for the Mets.
Lindor and McNeil are hitting 2nd and 3rd respectively. Pete's back at cleanup an Escobar is hitting behind him. McCann is catching and hitting 9th. Luis G is at 2B. Vogey's DHing again and hitting 6th. Wish Marte was here. The friggin Pirates may hav cost Marte the season if this keeps up. Bottom line: multiple players in the Mets' lineup need to step up tonight or their hopes for the division which they lead for almost all of this season are toast.
If the Braves win tonight, they can clinch the division tomorrow with a victory in Miami. Their magic number to win the division would be just one. Now if the Mets win the game tonight, their magic number would be 3 going into the last series of the season against the Nats at Citi. none of that matters though unless they win this game tonight. The other 5 MLB division raves have been decided. This one is at a tipping point tonight, one way or the other.
October 2nd, 2022 - Starting Lineups and pitchers - Mets at Braves - 7:08 pm EST start from Atlanta
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#LFGM!
Articles below:
MMO Game Thread: Mets vs. Braves, 7:08 P.M.
Mets Morning News: Pocket aces not enough this time 
This is still a good ball team , even as a wild card. [/quote]
Although I feel sad and dejected, and maybe some of you do also, the deeper underlying truth is the above, this is still a good team, even as a wild card.
Nothing is done yet, the last line has not yet been spoken.
Tonight felt like it was going to be good but we couldn't drive in the runs to put up the big #s.
Still going to the playoffs but it's a real bummer. We need high end Max and DeGrom starts. That's always the recipe for this team. Still possible but not feeling great about it now
Cookie pitching tomorrow and Walker is going on Tuesday. Mets will probably be finished for the division race by tomorrow, or Tuesday at the latest, no matter what they do at home against the Nats. deGrom would obviously no longer be scheduled to pitch on Wednesday so he can start either Game 1 or 2 of the WC series at Citi Field in the 4-5 Wildcard Round Best 2 of 3 against either the Padres/Phillies/Brewers.
I'm guessing if Wednesday is meaningless for the Mets (Tuesday probably will be too, but that's neither here nor there), then it'll be a bullpen game, so deGrom can be fresh for the WC round. A mix of Williams, Peterson, Megill, Smith, & company will probably pitch that game. This is still surreal to think about considering the wasted opportunities the Mets had throughout September, especially losing 5 of 6 at home against the combination of the Cubs and Nationals.
Mets’ Offensive Style Showing Its Limitations - ( New Window )
Let the kids get as many ABs as possible.
Mets to realize the division chase is over, try and get Lindor, Alonso, and McNeil rest.
the new rules this year mean instead of getting an extra week to maybe get Marte back and line up their rotation, they have to throw the big 3 against juan soto met killer's padres in what will likely be a pretty tough cross country series.
in 2015 the cheerleaders said the 'window was just opening' because all the starters were young. that obviously didn't work out and this time around the starters aren't anywhere close to young. this is an old team, with an older manager, and just keeping most of it together is going to make them perhaps the most expensive team in mlb (which they basically already are).
winning divisions in baseball is really hard and here they had everything going for them - and they blew it. they have to move past it and regroup but im not sure you move past it by pretending all is well and they didn't just blow it.
Let the kids get as many ABs as possible.
Mets to realize the division chase is over, try and get Lindor, Alonso, and McNeil rest.
I'd still play normally tomorrow, and wait until they're officially eliminated. Tuesday though I'd be tempted to do that anyway, even if they're still somehow alive for the division--which would be doubtful. Gotta get Alvarez two starts at Catcher this series.
the new rules this year mean instead of getting an extra week to maybe get Marte back and line up their rotation, they have to throw the big 3 against juan soto met killer's padres in what will likely be a pretty tough cross country series.
in 2015 the cheerleaders said the 'window was just opening' because all the starters were young. that obviously didn't work out and this time around the starters aren't anywhere close to young. this is an old team, with an older manager, and just keeping most of it together is going to make them perhaps the most expensive team in mlb (which they basically already are).
winning divisions in baseball is really hard and here they had everything going for them - and they blew it. they have to move past it and regroup but im not sure you move past it by pretending all is well and they didn't just blow it.
No cross-country effects would be in effect for the Mets. The Padres are the one who have to deal with that under such a scenario (which is most likely to happen at this point). It's a best two of three from Friday, Oct. 7th to Sunday, October 9th--if necessary. All the games would be played at Citi Field. I don't wanna speak out of turn, but I don't think we're gonna see Marte during the WC round.
+1. The Braves(as much as I dislike them) deserve credit for what they did. They played great baseball.
@NYPost_Mets
Showalter: “I am proud of everything they have done. This is not conditional. It’s unconditional, the support, and if I know these guys they will rebound and make somebody feel their pain.”
one thing about buck is you know there's no way he takes for granted the chance to win a ring. over the next week it's on him to figure out how to get this team to bounce back.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
Showalter: “I am proud of everything they have done. This is not conditional. It’s unconditional, the support, and if I know these guys they will rebound and make somebody feel their pain.”
This is what getting a grip means. It means turning a defeat into a victory by not letting your emotions run wild so you can't think clearly.
Mike Puma
@NYPost_Mets
Showalter: “I am proud of everything they have done. This is not conditional. It’s unconditional, the support, and if I know these guys they will rebound and make somebody feel their pain.”
This is what getting a grip means. It means turning a defeat into a victory by not letting your emotions run wild so you can't think clearly.
What did you expect him to say?
That is a choke job, no other way to see it
Padres lead Phillies by 1 game for the 2nd WC spot, but the Phils took the season series from SD 4-3, so a tie would put us against the Phillies
WC is Fri-Sun at Citi Field in a best of 3. Mets have deGrom and Scherzer lined up for the first 2 games in whichever order they want. Divisional series would start Tuesday in LA, it is a best of 5 and deGrom/Scherzer would be lined up for games 2 and 3
The rest of the Met stars essentially no-showed"
but the life of a Mets fan is one of chronic asphyxiation.
Quote:
In comment 15843210 Drewcon40 said:
Quote:
of being the dregs of the league to all of a sudden be a top team. Cohen is 2 years in his ownership and has improved the team but we’re not there yet. You have the defending World Champions with an incredible W-L record who just know how to win. We also share the city with a team who boasts a player that is about to cement himself as an all time great and has as good a chance to win the WS.
Unfortunately the perception of the Mets will remain. People will call it a collapse but we are not there.
Next year we may need to take a step back. We have our own free agents to sign. deGrom likely is gone and Judge will return to the Yankees.
What? What the fuck do the Yankees or Aaron Judge have to do with any of this?
I think he is referring to the rumor that Cohen is going to make a run at Judge.
Sorry Chris - went to bed after the game. Vanzetti is right - I was referring to the Judge rumors.
The good news is that the season isn’t over. These guys have a chance to redeem themselves and make a run. I’d love another crack at these bastards in the NLCS and maybe we can avenge 1999.
Plenty of time for a post-mortem and to complain about the lackluster trade deadline come the off-season. I suggest most Met fans try and find a way to put this weekend behind and look ahead to a playoff series at Citi Field this weekend versus a really good Padres team.
Combined they gave up 11 ER in 14.1 innings in the 3-game series.
The Mets had this series lined up perfect and laid an egg.
The good news is that the season isn’t over. These guys have a chance to redeem themselves and make a run. I’d love another crack at these bastards in the NLCS and maybe we can avenge 1999.
Plenty of time for a post-mortem and to complain about the lackluster trade deadline come the off-season. I suggest most Met fans try and find a way to put this weekend behind and look ahead to a playoff series at Citi Field this weekend versus a really good Padres team.
there's no advantage to this route bc now their path runs through both probably, but i would say that after this series i think there's less to worry about with LAD than with ATL. Iglesias and McHugh have added a dimension to that atlanta BP nobody else has. presumably the only way the mets would see the braves again this year is if they get back to playing well and if that's the case that would have the potential to be an all time series.
Combined they gave up 11 ER in 14.1 innings in the 3-game series.
The Mets had this series lined up perfect and laid an egg.
they were all disappointing but equally so were lindor and alonso with 0 rbis / 0 xbh.
those 5 are essentially their best players other than diaz and they all did nothing (diaz through no fault of his own).
in the post-season I feel like pitching and defense set the tone. and the big three pitchers came up small (deGrom less so)
in the post-season I feel like pitching and defense set the tone. and the big three pitchers came up small (deGrom less so)
Let us hope.. and thats really all we can do... is that they all got their shitty performances out of the way and go on a tear..
Which was the whole point myself, speedy, and others have been making for two months - winning the division was really really important to winning the World Series. And they choked it away
Anything can happen
It's the sport where the best team wins least often.
and the three most important pitchers (deGrom, Scherzer, and Diaz) should be fairly well rested.
i don't disagree that the pitchers let them down, but JDG and Scherzer left 2 run games, Bassitt a 1 run game. The Mets didn't score a run in the final 6 innings last night despite atlantas pen mostly working 3rd day in a row and morton not bringing his A game.
it was a team wide failure. it was last august against the LAD all over again. except maybe even a little worse because they at least got some of those games into extras.
i don't disagree that the pitchers let them down, but JDG and Scherzer left 2 run games, Bassitt a 1 run game. The Mets didn't score a run in the final 6 innings last night despite atlantas pen mostly working 3rd day in a row and morton not bringing his A game.
it was a team wide failure. it was last august against the LAD all over again. except maybe even a little worse because they at least got some of those games into extras.
100%... this team has talked about resiliency and games never being over all year, but these last 3 games all felt over very, very early despite being close
lol. It's true.
No day off between games 4 and 5 in NLDS, so deGrom/Scherzer in some order for games 2 and 3, then the G3 starter would have just one day off so I doubt he could pitch in G5. G2 starter could start on 3 days rest
I would guess Scherzer would be the guy on 3 days rest, and if so he would start G1 of the WC
losing 5 out of 6 at home in those 2 series against WSH and CHI is what lost them the division.
Just over a week after trade deadline, Aug 11, Mets had a 7-game lead
From then:
- Went 25-22
- Lost 6 of last 9
- deGrom was human, losing 3 of last 4 starts
- Swept by Cubs at home
- Went just 15-10 against teams with a combined .404 Win%
[quote] which was the canha game. but after that things went pretty south pretty quickly. and if anything that would make the numbers from 8/22 on even worse because they were mostly against last place teams other than 2 against the NYY and the 3 against LAD/MIL (series they actually won).
losing 5 out of 6 at home in those 2 series against WSH and CHI is what lost them the division.
+1. Those 5 losses were the difference.
Quote:
Jake Ciely @allinkid
Just over a week after trade deadline, Aug 11, Mets had a 7-game lead
From then:
- Went 25-22
- Lost 6 of last 9
- deGrom was human, losing 3 of last 4 starts
- Swept by Cubs at home
- Went just 15-10 against teams with a combined .404 Win%
[/quote]
+1 This sums it up.
losing 5 out of 6 at home in those 2 series against WSH and CHI is what lost them the division.
Quote:
Jake Ciely @allinkid
Just over a week after trade deadline, Aug 11, Mets had a 7-game lead
From then:
- Went 25-22
- Lost 6 of last 9
- deGrom was human, losing 3 of last 4 starts
- Swept by Cubs at home
- Went just 15-10 against teams with a combined .404 Win%
Yep. It would be completely reasonable for them to have won 5 of 6 - those teams were what, a combined 60 games under 500 at the time? which means they STILL would have had a 2 game lead despite the ATL sweep.
Quote:
which was the canha game. but after that things went pretty south pretty quickly. and if anything that would make the numbers from 8/22 on even worse because they were mostly against last place teams other than 2 against the NYY and the 3 against LAD/MIL (series they actually won).
losing 5 out of 6 at home in those 2 series against WSH and CHI is what lost them the division.
Quote:
Jake Ciely @allinkid
Just over a week after trade deadline, Aug 11, Mets had a 7-game lead
From then:
- Went 25-22
- Lost 6 of last 9
- deGrom was human, losing 3 of last 4 starts
- Swept by Cubs at home
- Went just 15-10 against teams with a combined .404 Win%
Yep. It would be completely reasonable for them to have won 5 of 6 - those teams were what, a combined 60 games under 500 at the time? which means they STILL would have had a 2 game lead despite the ATL sweep.
+1. Yes, the Atlanta series would probably have been meaningless.
I'm sure it will be analyzed ad infinitum, but I woulld really like a good, clear, deep explanation of why and how they folded.
Mets win that double-header in Pittsburgh only to drop that game in Miami.
A big win in Oakland on September 29 - only to go down to the Marlins after an off-day.
The win against the Marlins last week and then the off-day before Friday's loss.
This pattern doesn't bode well for Friday.
This team seems to struggle carrying any momentum from series to series.
Don't worry, with Alderson finally gone (we hope), the front office should be miles better
Mets Choked - ( New Window )
Interesting article, thanks for posting dennis.
The only thing I disagree with is criticizing Buck for the lack of Diaz use, When, exactly was he supposed to use him? They never had a lead past the 4th inning. The one example the author gave was not using Diaz in the 7th inning instead of McGill. They were losing by two runs! So if Diaz comes in and doesn't give up any runs, who pitches the 8th? OK, Diaz had thrown some 5 and 6 out saves this year, so MAYBE he could have pitched the 8th. But if they managed to come back and take the lead, surely Diaz could not have thrown Diaz a 3rd inning. So who would save the game? Otto? Perhaps. Everyone else in the pen sucks...
Anyway, this summed up what I was trying to say last night about expectations, and the importance of context:
"If someone told you before the season, the Mets would have 98+ wins before the season with a chance to win the NL East late in the season, you would absolutely take it. Actually, that is only partially true.
If you were told the Mets led this division at one point by 10.5 games, had a three game lead entering September, went 2-6 at home against the Nationals, Cubs, and Marlins, and would be completely dominated by the Braves as they were swept with the division title on the line, absolutely no one in their right mind would take it. This right here is why we should not try to sugarcoat and excuse this collapse."
Quote:
"What really stood out with Showalter in this series is he looked like a manager who did not learn from his mistakes in his previous spots. This was him using Jack McDowell, Bobby Chouinard, and anyone but Zack Britton on loop. Really, he was terrible in this series." Mets Choked - ( New Window )
Interesting article, thanks for posting dennis.
The only thing I disagree with is criticizing Buck for the lack of Diaz use, When, exactly was he supposed to use him? They never had a lead past the 4th inning. The one example the author gave was not using Diaz in the 7th inning instead of McGill. They were losing by two runs! So if Diaz comes in and doesn't give up any runs, who pitches the 8th? OK, Diaz had thrown some 5 and 6 out saves this year, so MAYBE he could have pitched the 8th. But if they managed to come back and take the lead, surely Diaz could not have thrown Diaz a 3rd inning. So who would save the game? Otto? Perhaps. Everyone else in the pen sucks...
Anyway, this summed up what I was trying to say last night about expectations, and the importance of context:
"If someone told you before the season, the Mets would have 98+ wins before the season with a chance to win the NL East late in the season, you would absolutely take it. Actually, that is only partially true.
If you were told the Mets led this division at one point by 10.5 games, had a three game lead entering September, went 2-6 at home against the Nationals, Cubs, and Marlins, and would be completely dominated by the Braves as they were swept with the division title on the line, absolutely no one in their right mind would take it. This right here is why we should not try to sugarcoat and excuse this collapse."
Hi Speedy. I was actually thinking about what you wrote when I read it. I thought your points were well made.
The really odd part is losing with the pitchers that we had up there, two of them which are probably the two best starting pitchers in baseball. And they just happened to miss spots badly for the same three hitters, every fucking game? That doesn’t make sense, but that’s baseball I guess.
I’d like to say I’m surprised at the outcome, but I’m not. I don’t know what happened to the Mets, maybe they were just playing over their heads for the first four months. But they have some stuff to figure out.