NFT: Mets @ Braves - Game 3: Bassitt vs. Morton

In comment 15844181 Metnut said:

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They'd be able to throw Bassit, then Degrom and Scherzer in the first three against the Dodgers. Game 4 would likely be a mismatch (not in NYMs favor) and then Game 5 would be Bassit starting with Degrom/Scherzer maybe each available for a few innings of relief.

No day off between games 4 and 5 in NLDS, so deGrom/Scherzer in some order for games 2 and 3, then the G3 starter would have just one day off so I doubt he could pitch in G5. G2 starter could start on 3 days rest

I would guess Scherzer would be the guy on 3 days rest, and if so he would start G1 of the WC

which was the canha game. but after that things went pretty south pretty quickly. and if anything that would make the numbers from 8/22 on even worse because they were mostly against last place teams other than 2 against the NYY and the 3 against LAD/MIL (series they actually won).

losing 5 out of 6 at home in those 2 series against WSH and CHI is what lost them the division.

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Jake Ciely @allinkid Just over a week after trade deadline, Aug 11, Mets had a 7-game lead From then: - Went 25-22 - Lost 6 of last 9 - deGrom was human, losing 3 of last 4 starts - Swept by Cubs at home - Went just 15-10 against teams with a combined .404 Win%

In comment 15844333 Eric on Li said:
[quote] which was the canha game. but after that things went pretty south pretty quickly. and if anything that would make the numbers from 8/22 on even worse because they were mostly against last place teams other than 2 against the NYY and the 3 against LAD/MIL (series they actually won).

losing 5 out of 6 at home in those 2 series against WSH and CHI is what lost them the division.

+1. Those 5 losses were the difference.

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Jake Ciely @allinkid
Just over a week after trade deadline, Aug 11, Mets had a 7-game lead

From then:
- Went 25-22
- Lost 6 of last 9
- deGrom was human, losing 3 of last 4 starts
- Swept by Cubs at home
- Went just 15-10 against teams with a combined .404 Win%

[/quote]

+1 This sums it up.

In comment 15844333 Eric on Li said:

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which was the canha game. but after that things went pretty south pretty quickly. and if anything that would make the numbers from 8/22 on even worse because they were mostly against last place teams other than 2 against the NYY and the 3 against LAD/MIL (series they actually won). losing 5 out of 6 at home in those 2 series against WSH and CHI is what lost them the division. Quote: Jake Ciely @allinkid Just over a week after trade deadline, Aug 11, Mets had a 7-game lead From then: - Went 25-22 - Lost 6 of last 9 - deGrom was human, losing 3 of last 4 starts - Swept by Cubs at home - Went just 15-10 against teams with a combined .404 Win%

Yep. It would be completely reasonable for them to have won 5 of 6 - those teams were what, a combined 60 games under 500 at the time? which means they STILL would have had a 2 game lead despite the ATL sweep.

In comment 15844356 speedywheels said:

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In comment 15844333 Eric on Li said: Quote: which was the canha game. but after that things went pretty south pretty quickly. and if anything that would make the numbers from 8/22 on even worse because they were mostly against last place teams other than 2 against the NYY and the 3 against LAD/MIL (series they actually won). losing 5 out of 6 at home in those 2 series against WSH and CHI is what lost them the division. Quote: Jake Ciely @allinkid Just over a week after trade deadline, Aug 11, Mets had a 7-game lead From then: - Went 25-22 - Lost 6 of last 9 - deGrom was human, losing 3 of last 4 starts - Swept by Cubs at home - Went just 15-10 against teams with a combined .404 Win% Yep. It would be completely reasonable for them to have won 5 of 6 - those teams were what, a combined 60 games under 500 at the time? which means they STILL would have had a 2 game lead despite the ATL sweep.

+1. Yes, the Atlanta series would probably have been meaningless.

I am fascinated by wanting to understand, what happened? Why the swan dive in the last month or so of the season?
I'm sure it will be analyzed ad infinitum, but I woulld really like a good, clear, deep explanation of why and how they folded.

Give him a lot of credit. If there was one player the moment wasn’t too big for it was him. Kudos to him on the season he is having both offensively and defensively. Maybe Billy Eppler can finally do something right and sign this guy to a long term extension. He has certainly earned it.

I am not saying this is the preferred route but another observation I noticed about the Mets the last few weeks was the game after an off day.

Mets win that double-header in Pittsburgh only to drop that game in Miami.

A big win in Oakland on September 29 - only to go down to the Marlins after an off-day.

The win against the Marlins last week and then the off-day before Friday's loss.

This pattern doesn't bode well for Friday.

This team seems to struggle carrying any momentum from series to series.

In comment 15844431 five5 said:

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Give him a lot of credit. If there was one player the moment wasn’t too big for it was him. Kudos to him on the season he is having both offensively and defensively. Maybe Billy Eppler can finally do something right and sign this guy to a long term extension. He has certainly earned it.

Don't worry, with Alderson finally gone (we hope), the front office should be miles better

"What really stood out with Showalter in this series is he looked like a manager who did not learn from his mistakes in his previous spots. This was him using Jack McDowell, Bobby Chouinard, and anyone but Zack Britton on loop. Really, he was terrible in this series."
Mets Choked - ( New Window )

In comment 15844595 Dennis said:

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"What really stood out with Showalter in this series is he looked like a manager who did not learn from his mistakes in his previous spots. This was him using Jack McDowell, Bobby Chouinard, and anyone but Zack Britton on loop. Really, he was terrible in this series." Mets Choked - ( New Window )

Interesting article, thanks for posting dennis.

The only thing I disagree with is criticizing Buck for the lack of Diaz use, When, exactly was he supposed to use him? They never had a lead past the 4th inning. The one example the author gave was not using Diaz in the 7th inning instead of McGill. They were losing by two runs! So if Diaz comes in and doesn't give up any runs, who pitches the 8th? OK, Diaz had thrown some 5 and 6 out saves this year, so MAYBE he could have pitched the 8th. But if they managed to come back and take the lead, surely Diaz could not have thrown Diaz a 3rd inning. So who would save the game? Otto? Perhaps. Everyone else in the pen sucks...

Anyway, this summed up what I was trying to say last night about expectations, and the importance of context:

"If someone told you before the season, the Mets would have 98+ wins before the season with a chance to win the NL East late in the season, you would absolutely take it. Actually, that is only partially true.

If you were told the Mets led this division at one point by 10.5 games, had a three game lead entering September, went 2-6 at home against the Nationals, Cubs, and Marlins, and would be completely dominated by the Braves as they were swept with the division title on the line, absolutely no one in their right mind would take it. This right here is why we should not try to sugarcoat and excuse this collapse."

In comment 15844645 speedywheels said:

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In comment 15844595 Dennis said: Quote: "What really stood out with Showalter in this series is he looked like a manager who did not learn from his mistakes in his previous spots. This was him using Jack McDowell, Bobby Chouinard, and anyone but Zack Britton on loop. Really, he was terrible in this series." Mets Choked - ( New Window ) Interesting article, thanks for posting dennis. The only thing I disagree with is criticizing Buck for the lack of Diaz use, When, exactly was he supposed to use him? They never had a lead past the 4th inning. The one example the author gave was not using Diaz in the 7th inning instead of McGill. They were losing by two runs! So if Diaz comes in and doesn't give up any runs, who pitches the 8th? OK, Diaz had thrown some 5 and 6 out saves this year, so MAYBE he could have pitched the 8th. But if they managed to come back and take the lead, surely Diaz could not have thrown Diaz a 3rd inning. So who would save the game? Otto? Perhaps. Everyone else in the pen sucks... Anyway, this summed up what I was trying to say last night about expectations, and the importance of context: "If someone told you before the season, the Mets would have 98+ wins before the season with a chance to win the NL East late in the season, you would absolutely take it. Actually, that is only partially true. If you were told the Mets led this division at one point by 10.5 games, had a three game lead entering September, went 2-6 at home against the Nationals, Cubs, and Marlins, and would be completely dominated by the Braves as they were swept with the division title on the line, absolutely no one in their right mind would take it. This right here is why we should not try to sugarcoat and excuse this collapse."

Hi Speedy. I was actually thinking about what you wrote when I read it. I thought your points were well made.

This Mets team just didn’t show up. Plain and simple. Our battle tested elite pitchers we’re not elite and our lineup spit the bit. It’s unfortunate because they had it in the palm of their hands but Atlanta is a formidable team. Their hitters that were supposed to beat us, well they showed up and they beat us.

The really odd part is losing with the pitchers that we had up there, two of them which are probably the two best starting pitchers in baseball. And they just happened to miss spots badly for the same three hitters, every fucking game? That doesn’t make sense, but that’s baseball I guess.

I’d like to say I’m surprised at the outcome, but I’m not. I don’t know what happened to the Mets, maybe they were just playing over their heads for the first four months. But they have some stuff to figure out.