Now THAT was an intense episode, albeit with a few plotholes. And who knew the little Targaryen was such a little prick ala Joffrey? Up until now, he was the timid one.
Particularly the Laeno stuff. First off, the steward went to fetch someone and I guess it took long enough for the guy to be in the fireplace and for Laeno to cut his hair and escape unseen. Second, I understand the guy was charred and unrecognizable, but you would think the parents would be able to recognize Laeno even by his hair.
Didn’t care for the episode. Way too dark visually and the long artsy weird sex scenes are weird.
There was also a lot of mumbling, particularly from the kid actors. I had to rewind a couple of scenes like 7x to hear what the kid was saying and even then I didn't understand it.
Wasn't Vhagar the dragon of one of Aegon the Conqueror's sister/wife?
Yes she is the only one remaining of the 3 that conquered Westeros. She is the survivor of over 100 battles and is by far the largest and most fierce of the dragons that are alive today in this timeline. The blacks losing Vhagar to the Greens is absolutely huge.
Particularly the Laeno stuff. First off, the steward went to fetch someone and I guess it took long enough for the guy to be in the fireplace and for Laeno to cut his hair and escape unseen. Second, I understand the guy was charred and unrecognizable, but you would think the parents would be able to recognize Laeno even by his hair.
I don't think that's a plot hole, you just might not believe it. But I do - castles are huge and taking several minutes to get help is plausible, more than enough time to roll a dead body in a fireplace. And cutting his hair? Takes minutes.
Particularly the Laeno stuff. First off, the steward went to fetch someone and I guess it took long enough for the guy to be in the fireplace and for Laeno to cut his hair and escape unseen. Second, I understand the guy was charred and unrecognizable, but you would think the parents would be able to recognize Laeno even by his hair.
I don't think that's a plot hole, you just might not believe it. But I do - castles are huge and taking several minutes to get help is plausible, more than enough time to roll a dead body in a fireplace. And cutting his hair? Takes minutes.
Not so much the cutting hair part. The guy (I don't know his name) was killed and placed in the fireplace. When Corliss and...the mother (again, don't know the name) finally arrive and the body is removed, they immediately assume it's Laeno. Well, what about the skin color of the rest of the body? And what about Laeno's dreadlocks? The face was obviously charred, but I can't believe that they immediately assumed the body was Laeno's.
Anak, maybe you don’t buy it but I don’t think it’s a plot hole. The point is his death was faked, if it wasn’t pulled off flawlessly I’m fine with that, doesn’t really change much.
Anak, maybe you don’t buy it but I don’t think it’s a plot hole. The point is his death was faked, if it wasn’t pulled off flawlessly I’m fine with that, doesn’t really change much.
Just watched the recap, I must have missed it but whether Rhaenyra knew about it wasn’t addressed.
the old rhaenyra was a lot better than discount claire danes. same with her husband and the queen. i liked the first few episodes more than i expected but am losing interest.
Didn’t care for the episode. Way too dark visually and the long artsy weird sex scenes are weird.
There was also a lot of mumbling, particularly from the kid actors. I had to rewind a couple of scenes like 7x to hear what the kid was saying and even then I didn't understand it.
I watch with subtitles since it seems every tv show now-a-days has low speaking parts followed by loud music
so, the dragon belongs to the person who claims (able to ride) it? Not to the house of the prior rider? House has to accept it? Seems like this was the case in this episode, or being Aemond was son of the King, he gets away with it.
Can someone steal/claim a dragon from a living rider? And/or would this cause war between Houses?
Both the King's sons are shit heads. Aemond was rightfully feeling his oats after riding the dragon, so he got full of himself...and lost an eye for it. He claims a fair exchange, but it seems he could have had both the dragon and his eye if he had simply not been a dick.
Don't care for either Rhaenyra, but the first was far worse. Credit, though - both are dull, wooden, characters and it is believable that they're the same character.
In World of Ice and Fire, he is murdered in the marketplace by Ser Qarl, possibly at Daemon's behest (accounts conflict on this point). I don't think there is any question of Laenor's actual deadness, so there's no question of who knows he's still alive. Not sure how this topic is handled in the expanded book.
The showrunners have chosen to preserve Daemon as something of an antihero with redeeming features. We're supposed to hate him after he murders his first wife, then start questioning whether he's really all bad. And Rhaenyra is what passes for a protagonist in this story, though the few likeable characters are mostly Valaryons. So the showrunners try to keep her hands relatively clean as well.
fkap: As I understand it, anyone can TRY to claim a dragon.
Of course, the consequences are fairly dire if you fail. But it's not like a wand in the Harry Potter universe, where you take possession by defeating the owner. And that wouldn't work with Vhagar anyway, unless she became her own rider after burning Laena. Vhagar at that point was the ultimate free agent. Imagine Aaron Donald as a UFA, or Brady joining the Bucs: past his peak, but still a gamechanger for the new team and a devastating loss for the old one. As Otto says, whatever price the Greens paid for Vhagar, she was well worth it.
was intended as a line to indicate solidarity with the quest for vengeance when they found who did it.
I couldn't take the literal darkness on screen I was messing with my TV trying to make it brighter and changing channels to make sure it wasn't something on my TV.
Daemon reminds me a little bit of Jamie Lannister - scum bag as the story begins who becomes a redeeming character - though it took Jamie much longer and no idea if that's truly Daemon or he's just angling for the iron throne.
Servant ran out to say Laenor’s squire attacked him
They find a body in the fire place of the great hall
Squire nowhere to be found
Why wouldn’t they assume it was Laenor?
There were two guys there. Two guys fighting. And if Laenor was the one in the fireplace, where was the other guy?
He escaped. I’m confused on you POV, I really don’t understand it. Why would he kill him and then just stay behind?
My point is this:
Laenor and his squire come into the room. They find the knight there (still don't know his name) and he wants to kill Laenor. The squire sees all this and runs to get help, so it's just Laenor and the knight. When the squire comes back with Corliss and the wife, they see a charred corpse, while the murderer has somehow escaped.
And BTW, why wouldn't Laenor stay back? Why did he immediately leave? I would think he'd want to see his parents.
But okay, we see the charred body and the parents just assume it's Laenor. Based on what? IDK. I mean the knight was wearing armor. You'd think if they shipped off the armor, they'd see the white skin, which is quite different than Laenor's. And what about the dreadlocks? The corpse had no hair, IIRC.
Alycent is a more redeemable character than Cersei was
Both love their ne'er-do-well children fiercely, but Alycent is a way more devoted wife to Aerys than Cersei ever was to Robert. For one, the kids are clearly Aerys'.
deciding his niece's poontang was enough to give up his self-exile sulking
was a far bigger leap of faith than Leanor's faked death.
Or...the Hand has been murdered. Let's ignore why/who, and bring back the disgraced Hand who has been in exile for ten years.
Or...Laena deciding to kill her unborn child instead of undergoing c-section and maybe it lives (they didn't know if it was alive or not, right?).
Or...the King naming Rhaenyra heir, instead of marrying and trying for a son, first. Then sticking with her, even though the entire realm is against it, and she's birthing bastards (who may be dead soon if Daemon is looking to put his own kin on the throne).
Or...the King being on death's door for ten or more years.
Did I miss when Otto was brought back as the king's hand? That seemingly came out of nowhere.
i think they foreshadowed it last episode during the scene where they were talking about the hand escorting his son back to harrenhal and it being time for the queen to call her father (and then obviously with the way the trip went there was a job opening).
aren’t murderers supposed to try and not get caught? Why would he stay there and wait to be caught?
Separately, why would Laenor stay back to say bye to his parents when he’s supposed to be dead? The entire point of the plot was to fake his death to everyone.
Separately, why would Laenor stay back to say bye to his parents when he’s supposed to be dead? The entire point of the plot was to fake his death to everyone.
Why would he fake his own death? He's supposed to be dead because the guy tried to kill him. Well, he didn't, so why wouldn't he stay back and say, "what the fuck is going on?". The guy is the prince consort and his parents are the most powerful family in the kingdom.
RE: She's much more animated and theatrical than … and Milly Alcock
Also killed a random black servent in the castle about 30 seconds before Laenor squared off with his lover Knight. Obviously they were in on the plan as that was the body that was used. Not that hard to figure out
Separately, why would Laenor stay back to say bye to his parents when he’s supposed to be dead? The entire point of the plot was to fake his death to everyone.
Why would he fake his own death? He's supposed to be dead because the guy tried to kill him. Well, he didn't, so why wouldn't he stay back and say, "what the fuck is going on?". The guy is the prince consort and his parents are the most powerful family in the kingdom.
2 options, both plausible. He’s in on it or was told the plan by his lover at the 11th hour and decided to save him.
But it’s the former for me - Rhynaera said earlier “fire is a prison and the sea offers and escape”. It was planned and Laenor seeing his parents before leaving makes this plan null and void.
His marriage is a joke. and apparently an unhappy one (Rhaenyra made the comment to Daemon how lucky D's marriage was 'happy enough').
His wife has 3 kids who obviously aren't his, making him and his family laughingstock of the empire.
He's gay, but can't be open and happy. His lovers are always subject to death or exile.
His sister just died, leaving him heart broken.
His wife and family, and quite possibly himself, are likely going to be slaughtered when the King dies.
He was offered an easy way out. Not hard to see why he took it.
They pulled off the fake death, Laenor tells Rhanerys that he hates “that he was made this way.” Basically saying that he was a gay man living in a position of power and attention. He was always happiest as a knight fighting battles at sea, and being with his male lovers. The fake death gave him a second chance at his desired. He is now free of his princely duties, free of his fake marriage to his cousin, and free to love who he wants to love.
Really enjoying this, but anyone else feel like this should have been
they are flying through stories but they have a pretty decent runway being 200 years before GoT. Pacing matters for sure but mostly when it goes against the show's own rules like they did towards the end of GOT.
they are flying through stories but they have a pretty decent runway being 200 years before GoT. Pacing matters for sure but mostly when it goes against the show's own rules like they did towards the end of GOT.
Ahhh didn't know that. Thought it was more like they were going to put a bunch of one-season spinoffs out for some reason.
… that’s partly because the real story is just about to start.
Viserys’s whole reign is basically setup for what happens next. Remember him lamenting how nothing song-worthy has happened during his reign? Lord Strong was right: all that boring peace and prosperity is going to look pretty good after the King is gone.
Visually, if not tonally, this was probably the darkest episode we've seen since we saw The Night King attack Winterfell.
Particularly the Laeno stuff. First off, the steward went to fetch someone and I guess it took long enough for the guy to be in the fireplace and for Laeno to cut his hair and escape unseen. Second, I understand the guy was charred and unrecognizable, but you would think the parents would be able to recognize Laeno even by his hair.
I agree. She's much more animated and theatrical than Emilia Clarke and Milly Alcock.
There was also a lot of mumbling, particularly from the kid actors. I had to rewind a couple of scenes like 7x to hear what the kid was saying and even then I didn't understand it.
Yes she is the only one remaining of the 3 that conquered Westeros. She is the survivor of over 100 battles and is by far the largest and most fierce of the dragons that are alive today in this timeline. The blacks losing Vhagar to the Greens is absolutely huge.
Daemon said to Laenor's lover "let there be witness'", they obviously know he is alive.
Quote:
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Particularly the Laeno stuff. First off, the steward went to fetch someone and I guess it took long enough for the guy to be in the fireplace and for Laeno to cut his hair and escape unseen. Second, I understand the guy was charred and unrecognizable, but you would think the parents would be able to recognize Laeno even by his hair.
I don't think that's a plot hole, you just might not believe it. But I do - castles are huge and taking several minutes to get help is plausible, more than enough time to roll a dead body in a fireplace. And cutting his hair? Takes minutes.
Quote:
If Renira knows her husband is or is not dead?
Daemon said to Laenor's lover "let there be witness'", they obviously know he is alive.
While I think she knows the plan I don't think this line proves it. They needed a witness to the fight so the charred body was identified.
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In comment 15843335 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
If Renira knows her husband is or is not dead?
Daemon said to Laenor's lover "let there be witness'", they obviously know he is alive.
While I think she knows the plan I don't think this line proves it. They needed a witness to the fight so the charred body was identified.
Watch the after show recap, it explains it better
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In comment 15843291 BlackLight said:
Quote:
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Particularly the Laeno stuff. First off, the steward went to fetch someone and I guess it took long enough for the guy to be in the fireplace and for Laeno to cut his hair and escape unseen. Second, I understand the guy was charred and unrecognizable, but you would think the parents would be able to recognize Laeno even by his hair.
I don't think that's a plot hole, you just might not believe it. But I do - castles are huge and taking several minutes to get help is plausible, more than enough time to roll a dead body in a fireplace. And cutting his hair? Takes minutes.
Not so much the cutting hair part. The guy (I don't know his name) was killed and placed in the fireplace. When Corliss and...the mother (again, don't know the name) finally arrive and the body is removed, they immediately assume it's Laeno. Well, what about the skin color of the rest of the body? And what about Laeno's dreadlocks? The face was obviously charred, but I can't believe that they immediately assumed the body was Laeno's.
They find a body in the fire place of the great hall
Squire nowhere to be found
Why wouldn’t they assume it was Laenor?
Just watched the recap, I must have missed it but whether Rhaenyra knew about it wasn’t addressed.
They find a body in the fire place of the great hall
Squire nowhere to be found
Why wouldn’t they assume it was Laenor?
There were two guys there. Two guys fighting. And if Laenor was the one in the fireplace, where was the other guy?
Quote:
If Renira knows her husband is or is not dead?
Daemon said to Laenor's lover "let there be witness'", they obviously know he is alive.
Thanks I didn’t quite catch the exchange.
Quote:
Didn’t care for the episode. Way too dark visually and the long artsy weird sex scenes are weird.
There was also a lot of mumbling, particularly from the kid actors. I had to rewind a couple of scenes like 7x to hear what the kid was saying and even then I didn't understand it.
I watch with subtitles since it seems every tv show now-a-days has low speaking parts followed by loud music
Quote:
Servant ran out to say Laenor’s squire attacked him
They find a body in the fire place of the great hall
Squire nowhere to be found
Why wouldn’t they assume it was Laenor?
There were two guys there. Two guys fighting. And if Laenor was the one in the fireplace, where was the other guy?
He escaped. I’m confused on you POV, I really don’t understand it. Why would he kill him and then just stay behind?
Can someone steal/claim a dragon from a living rider? And/or would this cause war between Houses?
Both the King's sons are shit heads. Aemond was rightfully feeling his oats after riding the dragon, so he got full of himself...and lost an eye for it. He claims a fair exchange, but it seems he could have had both the dragon and his eye if he had simply not been a dick.
Don't care for either Rhaenyra, but the first was far worse. Credit, though - both are dull, wooden, characters and it is believable that they're the same character.
The showrunners have chosen to preserve Daemon as something of an antihero with redeeming features. We're supposed to hate him after he murders his first wife, then start questioning whether he's really all bad. And Rhaenyra is what passes for a protagonist in this story, though the few likeable characters are mostly Valaryons. So the showrunners try to keep her hands relatively clean as well.
I couldn't take the literal darkness on screen I was messing with my TV trying to make it brighter and changing channels to make sure it wasn't something on my TV.
Daemon reminds me a little bit of Jamie Lannister - scum bag as the story begins who becomes a redeeming character - though it took Jamie much longer and no idea if that's truly Daemon or he's just angling for the iron throne.
Quote:
In comment 15844877 redbeard said:
Quote:
Servant ran out to say Laenor’s squire attacked him
They find a body in the fire place of the great hall
Squire nowhere to be found
Why wouldn’t they assume it was Laenor?
There were two guys there. Two guys fighting. And if Laenor was the one in the fireplace, where was the other guy?
He escaped. I’m confused on you POV, I really don’t understand it. Why would he kill him and then just stay behind?
My point is this:
Laenor and his squire come into the room. They find the knight there (still don't know his name) and he wants to kill Laenor. The squire sees all this and runs to get help, so it's just Laenor and the knight. When the squire comes back with Corliss and the wife, they see a charred corpse, while the murderer has somehow escaped.
And BTW, why wouldn't Laenor stay back? Why did he immediately leave? I would think he'd want to see his parents.
But okay, we see the charred body and the parents just assume it's Laenor. Based on what? IDK. I mean the knight was wearing armor. You'd think if they shipped off the armor, they'd see the white skin, which is quite different than Laenor's. And what about the dreadlocks? The corpse had no hair, IIRC.
was a far bigger leap of faith than Leanor's faked death.
Or...the Hand has been murdered. Let's ignore why/who, and bring back the disgraced Hand who has been in exile for ten years.
Or...Laena deciding to kill her unborn child instead of undergoing c-section and maybe it lives (they didn't know if it was alive or not, right?).
Or...the King naming Rhaenyra heir, instead of marrying and trying for a son, first. Then sticking with her, even though the entire realm is against it, and she's birthing bastards (who may be dead soon if Daemon is looking to put his own kin on the throne).
Or...the King being on death's door for ten or more years.
Or...any number of things.
a faked murder is low on the list.
i think they foreshadowed it last episode during the scene where they were talking about the hand escorting his son back to harrenhal and it being time for the queen to call her father (and then obviously with the way the trip went there was a job opening).
Separately, why would Laenor stay back to say bye to his parents when he’s supposed to be dead? The entire point of the plot was to fake his death to everyone.
Why would he fake his own death? He's supposed to be dead because the guy tried to kill him. Well, he didn't, so why wouldn't he stay back and say, "what the fuck is going on?". The guy is the prince consort and his parents are the most powerful family in the kingdom.
Quote:
Separately, why would Laenor stay back to say bye to his parents when he’s supposed to be dead? The entire point of the plot was to fake his death to everyone.
Why would he fake his own death? He's supposed to be dead because the guy tried to kill him. Well, he didn't, so why wouldn't he stay back and say, "what the fuck is going on?". The guy is the prince consort and his parents are the most powerful family in the kingdom.
2 options, both plausible. He’s in on it or was told the plan by his lover at the 11th hour and decided to save him.
But it’s the former for me - Rhynaera said earlier “fire is a prison and the sea offers and escape”. It was planned and Laenor seeing his parents before leaving makes this plan null and void.
His marriage is a joke. and apparently an unhappy one (Rhaenyra made the comment to Daemon how lucky D's marriage was 'happy enough').
His wife has 3 kids who obviously aren't his, making him and his family laughingstock of the empire.
He's gay, but can't be open and happy. His lovers are always subject to death or exile.
His sister just died, leaving him heart broken.
His wife and family, and quite possibly himself, are likely going to be slaughtered when the King dies.
He was offered an easy way out. Not hard to see why he took it.
The jumps in time are more in line with a historic retelling than the way GoT set out to tell its story.
Either way, I'm enjoying it a lot so far.
Ahhh didn't know that. Thought it was more like they were going to put a bunch of one-season spinoffs out for some reason.
Viserys’s whole reign is basically setup for what happens next. Remember him lamenting how nothing song-worthy has happened during his reign? Lord Strong was right: all that boring peace and prosperity is going to look pretty good after the King is gone.