So, is Thibs bullshitting with running a more uptempo offense? I think he is. This goes against every fiber of his being. It will hurt the defense. I think he'll try it in stretches but when the game is on the line or close in the 4th, that is when I need to see if he truly believes in it.
If he is telling the truth and this is what he wants, then maybe, just maybe, he will let go of some of his stubbornness.
We have all killed Randle but I hope it works out for him. I hope there is a way to build him up to either make us a better team and/or trade him. If Randle is going to be running more, then the first thing he needs to do is stop letting people in his head and arguing with the refs. Too many times last year he wouldn't hustle back on D.
Anyway, the first preseason game is tomorrow at 7. I can't wait to see what they look like and the style they will be playing.
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It all points in one direction: a more uptempo style than fans have been accustomed to.
Coach Tom Thibodeau gave hints of that adjustment Tuesday when he said: “Pace is oftentimes determined by your players.” Though he didn’t commit to playing faster in speaking with reporters, behind the scenes Thibodeau has preached that style to his players.
Randle said Saturday that one of the points of emphasis through the first week of training camp has been to play faster, to get up and down the floor more quickly than in 2021-22 or the season before.
“Obviously you’re thinking about what are the right type of shots and how do we create those shots,” ridiculously said. “We can’t do it at the expense of taking bad shots. They have to be the right shots. So we want to play with pace and we want to create movement.”
I don't see ANY reason to disbelieve him. The idea of his stubbornness has gotten ridiculously overstated. I believe strongly that, beyond everything else, Thibs attempts to use the players he has. The current team is mostly built for an upscale style, and it has really impressive depth that will help the team stay upscale without tiring out--and play court-long defense, and wear other teams out. I see absolutely no reason why Thibs won't mold his style to the roster available to him. That includes pushing Randall to play harder, ultimately making Grimes the starter at the 2, finding space for Reddish and finding more time for Toppin.
Fournier will have to bust his ass to keep up, or simply play less.
I am also strongly of the view that, with the depth and youth that they have, plus a permanent point guard with talent, the team's potential is strongly underestimated. There were an awful lot of games last year where the Knicks stayed close but but couldn't finish. This year they will be in a position to win a bunch of those.
I hope it works with Thibs here but if it doesn't then it will be because of his own undoing.
Last year the kids would play with pace get a lead and Thibs immediately would go to Burks to slow it down..
Thibs has said many times that in the 4th you have to play slower..
Now i think it will look better because you have Brunson over Burks but i will believe it when i see it when it comes to Thibs playing faster
Now its let's go up tempo....
Perhaps Thibs is trying to make the most of the roster he has.
I think Cam is going to be the surprise player for us...if he stays healthy.
Especially the second unit with Rose, IQ, Obi and Hart needs to run the other team out of the gym.
Especially the second unit with Rose, IQ, Obi and Hart needs to run the other team out of the gym.
He didnt have to rely on Taj or run the offense through Randle, he chose to do that..
He also didnt have to rely on Burks at PG
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The weakness at PG and when you have to rely on aging big like Taj for minutes, coupled with having to run the offense through Randle, that will lead to slower pace. Now the offense can run through a true legitimate PG. It could and should look completely different than previous years. If Rose can also play at a high pace, the team can actually move closer to the middle in pace. We'll never be one of the highest teams in pace because of Thibs' requirements for ball security and defense, but there's easy points that the Knicks have left on the table. They've been forced to work so hard on offense to scrape by and keep up with some of these faster paced teams.
Especially the second unit with Rose, IQ, Obi and Hart needs to run the other team out of the gym.
He didnt have to rely on Taj or run the offense through Randle, he chose to do that..
He also didnt have to rely on Burks at PG
He had to play Taj big minutes when other bigs got hurt. That's who was available. He had to play Burks when the guy they brought in to play PG was completely cooked and Rose got hurt. Whether or not Burks plays the point, whatever, but he was getting a ton of minutes when those two things happened. Randle was still our best offensive option most possessions. It just didn't help that he got all fucked up last year.
This year, the depth is much better. Taj -> Hartenstein. Rose is back. Brunson is here. Grimes is not a rookie. IQ showed he can play point. Without a doubt there are more options than last year, in part because some of the young guys have shown themselves to be legit options.
If we all have a beef, it's with the fact that Thibs doesn't buy that you have to develop players by throwing them out there and playing them big minutes. His philosophy is to develop them primarily in their work outside games and let them earn minutes. In his defense, these young guys have all improved consistently this way. He's really just not a Tank commander. He is trying to win every game and will play the players he thinks are best suited to do that. I'd love it if he just played all the young guys a ton of minutes. But that's not going to win more games (probably) and that's clearly not what he was hired to do.
Well the options were IQ and McBride. And neither had shown the ability to run the point at that level. He decided to play the vet. We may not like it, but it isn't really easy to argue that he was wrong to think that Burks gave them the best chance each night. Now that IQ has had more success in an extended run down the stretch (in games that didn't really mean anything, tbh), thibs might make a different call this year and let him start.
Also he chose to play Burks 35 minutes a night at point guard when Burks was absolutely awful..
He chose to take out the bench unit whrn they were rolling for Burks and Randle who proceeded to choke away games
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He chose to.
Well the options were IQ and McBride. And neither had shown the ability to run the point at that level. He decided to play the vet. We may not like it, but it isn't really easy to argue that he was wrong to think that Burks gave them the best chance each night. Now that IQ has had more success in an extended run down the stretch (in games that didn't really mean anything, tbh), thibs might make a different call this year and let him start.
He still played Burks the mpst minites out of anyone in the entire NBA after the all star break even when Quickley was playing fantastic..
The team would of been better off playing IQ or Mcbride at point over Burks..
I see his scoring as a good 2nd team catalyst.
I actually wouldn't mind starting Cam at the 2 or 3 along with RJ and Brunson
It's a little unorthodox but maybe worth a try.
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I see his scoring as a good 2nd team catalyst.
I actually wouldn't mind starting Cam at the 2 or 3 along with RJ and Brunson
It's a little unorthodox but maybe worth a try.
I have no idea. We have too many players so someone has to sit.
I think Fournier starts until he doesn't. If Grimes does start, the I think Fournier fits in well with the 2nd unit. But, who backs up RJ? I can see Grimes as that guy. Does Cam get playing time? There are too many different options that I will just wait until I see it.
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Do you see a way to bring Fournier off the bench?
I see his scoring as a good 2nd team catalyst.
I actually wouldn't mind starting Cam at the 2 or 3 along with RJ and Brunson
It's a little unorthodox but maybe worth a try.
I have no idea. We have too many players so someone has to sit.
I think Fournier starts until he doesn't. If Grimes does start, the I think Fournier fits in well with the 2nd unit. But, who backs up RJ? I can see Grimes as that guy. Does Cam get playing time? There are too many different options that I will just wait until I see it.
I hear you...I am afraid we put the cart before the horse with Grimes...but time will tell.
Cam is my dark horse break out player..
Lets hope he stays healthy
Brunson
Fournier
Barrett
Randle
Robinson
First guy in is Grimes for Fournier.
Next substitution would be Obi for Randle and IQ for RJ. Grimes goes to the 3 with IQ at the 2.
Then Hartenstein in for Robinson and Rose in for Brunson.
They get a little burn together and then guys will start coming back in. Not sure where Cam fits.
Brunson
Fournier
Barrett
Randle
Robinson
First guy in is Grimes for Fournier.
Next substitution would be Obi for Randle and IQ for RJ. Grimes goes to the 3 with IQ at the 2.
Then Hartenstein in for Robinson and Rose in for Brunson.
They get a little burn together and then guys will start coming back in. Not sure where Cam fits.
There needs to be a trade before the season starts, maybe they make one right before the season starts but its just to many guys who deserve minutes at the same position
Look, I think Thibs is a good coach. I want him to succeed, but I also want him to be more flexible with his game planning and substitutions patterns. And to experiment with different lineups and make use of our depth.
I just don't think he will. I think maybe a little, but he'll end up going back to what he's comfortable with every time.
Have we ever gotten any clarity on Grimes? We know he’s got a “sore left foot”. That’s great. But what’s the actual injury? What’s the cause of the soreness?
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out, Sims questionable
Have we ever gotten any clarity on Grimes? We know he’s got a “sore left foot”. That’s great. But what’s the actual injury? What’s the cause of the soreness?
That's the exact question I posed to Begley. It's pretty odd (even if it's minor) the way this is being communicated.
It is a bit skewed since Mitch, Randle, and RJ are playing against the best players on the other teams.
Right. And why? Because he had NO PGs! Quickly isn’t even a pure PG and he was bad through the first half last year. Who else was there??? No one.
I also liked when I read “every year this same talk” — uhh this is year 3. Year one was fantastic. Year two not so good. Every year? Some of you act like Thibs has been lying to you all for 10 years now.
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He chose to.
Right. And why? Because he had NO PGs! Quickly isn’t even a pure PG and he was bad through the first half last year. Who else was there??? No one.
I also liked when I read “every year this same talk” — uhh this is year 3. Year one was fantastic. Year two not so good. Every year? Some of you act like Thibs has been lying to you all for 10 years now.
And you act like this is Thibs’ first 3 seasons coaching in the NBA. His reputation for running veterans into the ground is well known and it’s a reason fans were cautious when he was hired. dep used to be a raging lunatic about Thibs’ stubbornness with the Bulls
Obi minutes and maybe his insistence on playing Randle so much last year when he was struggling ok maybe I can see that complaint. But the pg situation and Taj playing a few minutes when all the centers were hurt? I guess I don’t get it. Where the hell were all these good pgs? Who?? Grimes? Didn’t he get hurt? And he’s a 2.
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He chose to.
Right. And why? Because he had NO PGs! Quickly isn’t even a pure PG and he was bad through the first half last year. Who else was there??? No one.
I also liked when I read “every year this same talk” — uhh this is year 3. Year one was fantastic. Year two not so good. Every year? Some of you act like Thibs has been lying to you all for 10 years now.
Its not just Thibs its been talked about for yesrs how the Knicks are going to be faster and it never happens..
Thibs by his substitutions shows he doesnt want to play fast..
and no he didnt have to play Burks, it was obvious to everyone the Knicks were better with Quick and even mcbride playing point and not Burks...
and playing Burks 35 monutes a night to finish the seasom was mind numbingly stupid..
You can go back and look and see 10 to 15 games Thibs blew by stupid decisions
Obi minutes and maybe his insistence on playing Randle so much last year when he was struggling ok maybe I can see that complaint. But the pg situation and Taj playing a few minutes when all the centers were hurt? I guess I don’t get it. Where the hell were all these good pgs? Who?? Grimes? Didn’t he get hurt? And he’s a 2.
Dude no offense but did you watch the team when Randle or Burks werent on the floor? they were good, played fast and were a net positive..
There was zero reason to start Burks at the point
First game after the break, Grimes dislocated his kneecap on a play where there was no contact to that knee, just an awkward plant.
He came back but only appeared in a handful of games with light minutes before he was down with knee soreness for the rest of the season.
Burks was playing both the 1 and the 2. He stayed out there because he could play some semblance of defense and, with Grimes out, who else could?
First game after the break, Grimes dislocated his kneecap on a play where there was no contact to that knee, just an awkward plant.
He came back but only appeared in a handful of games with light minutes before he was down with knee soreness for the rest of the season.
Burks was playing both the 1 and the 2. He stayed out there because he could play some semblance of defense and, with Grimes out, who else could?
Burks playing off the ball was not an issue, Burks running the point and the offense especially in the 4th quarter was the issue
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He chose to.
Right. And why? Because he had NO PGs! Quickly isn’t even a pure PG and he was bad through the first half last year. Who else was there??? No one.
I also liked when I read “every year this same talk” — uhh this is year 3. Year one was fantastic. Year two not so good. Every year? Some of you act like Thibs has been lying to you all for 10 years now.
Doug, he trotted out the same starting unit all year with shit results. Never attempting anything else us bullshit.
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But what is frustrating as a fan is seeing the same thing fail time and time again and never making a change. Look at the starters +/- and then compare that to the backups +/-. Again, I am not saying inserting IQ into the starting lineup would have netted different results but to never even try it is bullshit. Link - ( New Window )
It is a bit skewed since Mitch, Randle, and RJ are playing against the best players on the other teams.
Lol. That's why it is a plus minus. The starters sucked against their opponents and the bench destroyed their opponents. So, again, why not switch something up? You can't just keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. All we here today is how Daboll and Kafka are amazing because they adapt and change up the gameplan to give our team tbe best chance to win. But with Thibs we have people defending the exact opposite. Daboll and Kafka have guys like Sills and James playing over Golladay and Toney. They get applauded. Thibs has his guys getting their asses kicked and some supoort that. I don't get it.
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In comment 15843649 robbieballs2003 said:
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But what is frustrating as a fan is seeing the same thing fail time and time again and never making a change. Look at the starters +/- and then compare that to the backups +/-. Again, I am not saying inserting IQ into the starting lineup would have netted different results but to never even try it is bullshit. Link - ( New Window )
It is a bit skewed since Mitch, Randle, and RJ are playing against the best players on the other teams.
Lol. That's why it is a plus minus. The starters sucked against their opponents and the bench destroyed their opponents. So, again, why not switch something up? You can't just keep doing the same thing and expecting different results. All we here today is how Daboll and Kafka are amazing because they adapt and change up the gameplan to give our team tbe best chance to win. But with Thibs we have people defending the exact opposite. Daboll and Kafka have guys like Sills and James playing over Golladay and Toney. They get applauded. Thibs has his guys getting their asses kicked and some supoort that. I don't get it.
Burks has a pretty good plus minus there.
I agree that I don't like Thibs rotations, but that stat is not the reason why I'd criticize him.
Whatever it takes to get IQ, Grimes, and Obi minutes, I'm for it.
I'm still holding out hope for a Randle and Fournier for Westbrook and picks trade. Still think that makes too much sense for both sides.
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And needed our bench to bail us out only to go back to the starters to fuck it up again. It should be in merit. If your starters are that bad against the opposition then something needs to be done. I remmeber one time, that's it, where Thibs benched the starters earlier in the year and stayed with the young kids that led to a win. Haven't seen it since.
Whatever it takes to get IQ, Grimes, and Obi minutes, I'm for it.
I'm still holding out hope for a Randle and Fournier for Westbrook and picks trade. Still think that makes too much sense for both sides.
I really think the Knicks and Lakers can come together based on both being pissed at Ainge and get something done. But, imo, that revolves around Randle showing he can play without the ball.
This is a pretty big year for everyone, including the HC. If the Knicks win enough games all will be well at msg. I think they will be good. 47 wins.
He HAS to play some of the younger player by default.
@NBA_NewYork
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“Not at all no. He was with the second unit most of the time, and no, we’ve been playing with Mitch”
— Evan Fournier on whether he’s played with new Knick big Isaiah Hartenstein in camp
@NBA_NewYork
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“Not at all no. He was with the second unit most of the time, and no, we’ve been playing with Mitch”
— Evan Fournier on whether he’s played with new Knick big Isaiah Hartenstein in camp
Haha. Thibs and his hockey lines…
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