I know, another Daniel Jones thread, but I’m curious about this. Assuming Jones is healthy and plays a full season, and let’s also say the Giants finish the year with 8-9 wins. If Jones executes Kafka’s game plan and utilizes his legs and makes a handful of throws, what will that command on the open market?
I’m not talking about airing it out and winning shootouts. If Jones plays efficiently with his legs and makes some important throws to help the team win. I’m thinking the following games where he managed the game very well:
vs Philly (2020)
vs Dallas (2020)
@NO (2021) - best game of his career
vs Carolina (2021)
vs LAV (2021)
vs Philly (2021)
I’m not including the first Tampa game, all of the games above were games where Jones played well and won since 2020. Especially the NO game where he threw for over 400 yards (that has been the outlier).
So, let’s say the Giants let Jones hit FA. How many teams do you think would try to sign him assuming he stays healthy this year?
For comparison, Mitch Trubisky got a base salary of $14.3M over two years from Pittsburgh. Is that the comp?
For me the Jones debate has always been largely about economics. I’m curious to what you think teams would offer him on the open market.
Lastly, I thought the game plan was absolutely brilliant yesterday and Jones executed it perfectly. This coming off a week against Dallas where he kept his eyes down the field and made things happen.
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a lot of you don't watch other teams play. That's the only way I can account for the evaluations of Jones on here.
How do you evaluate Jones by watching other teams?
By having relevant context instead of "boy, you guys sure would have run Phil Simms out of town 43 years ago."
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a lot of you don't watch other teams play. That's the only way I can account for the evaluations of Jones on here.
How do you evaluate Jones by watching other teams?
I am able to understand Jones' quality because I watch many games of football per week and watch other QB's abilities. The fact that you needed to ask this question is telling.
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In comment 15844576 Mike from SI said:
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a lot of you don't watch other teams play. That's the only way I can account for the evaluations of Jones on here.
How do you evaluate Jones by watching other teams?
By having relevant context instead of "boy, you guys sure would have run Phil Simms out of town 43 years ago."
that's funny...
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In comment 15844576 Mike from SI said:
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a lot of you don't watch other teams play. That's the only way I can account for the evaluations of Jones on here.
How do you evaluate Jones by watching other teams?
By having relevant context instead of "boy, you guys sure would have run Phil Simms out of town 43 years ago."
The play of the Giants offensive line is relevant. The play of the Bucs offensive line is irrelevant.
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In comment 15844612 Ron Johnson said:
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In comment 15844576 Mike from SI said:
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a lot of you don't watch other teams play. That's the only way I can account for the evaluations of Jones on here.
How do you evaluate Jones by watching other teams?
By having relevant context instead of "boy, you guys sure would have run Phil Simms out of town 43 years ago."
The play of the Giants offensive line is relevant. The play of the Bucs offensive line is irrelevant.
You're 100% wrong.
If you're going to make comparisons, relative context is necessary. And if you're going to understand how any player contributes to a winning program, you need to be aware of the status of the rest of the league.
This isn't complicated. But it also doesn't come as a surprise that you don't get it.
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a lot of you don't watch other teams play. That's the only way I can account for the evaluations of Jones on here.
How do you evaluate Jones by watching other teams?
This can't be a serious line of thinking.
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Good post.
It’s really interesting that there’s not a range of passers earning $15-30mm annually. It suggests to me that the market is f***** up.
See I think that market makes total sense. It says you either have a QB or you don't. If you do, you pay him.
If you don't, then you're just treading water while trying to find one. The 18th best QB just isn't that much more valuable for team success than the 30th or 35th. None of them are good enough.
That’s an interesting way to put it.
The Cousins and Tannehill contracts may be a help here. These guys are overpaid but if they were earning, let’s say, $20-25mm annually, that’s more sensible. After our Cowboys loss, I was wondering if Dak Prescott might fall in the same camp.
In these three cases, there were very public writhings about whether the QB in question was worth it. But someone ended up paying the big money, no matter the concerns.
Then there are the cases with teams that genuinely tried to make a go with flawed but decent QBs. I’m thinking the 49ers and Chiefs with Alex Smith, the Rams with Goff (who was not paid top QB money by the Rams) and the 49ers with Garoppollo (again not paid top tier money). And all of those teams couldn’t make it work and have moved on or are moving on.
So some teams overpay - because they must - and other teams decide not to overpay - and change their minds (0 titles for the teams in that group though they were all excellent squads).
So Jerry, brilliant post. Totally see your point of view and the great minds in the NFL agree. And one more reason to just let Jones walk.
You either have a great QB and he’s worth paying. Or you don’t and your chances of winning a title are slim.
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In comment 15844474 cosmicj said:
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Good post.
It’s really interesting that there’s not a range of passers earning $15-30mm annually. It suggests to me that the market is f***** up.
See I think that market makes total sense. It says you either have a QB or you don't. If you do, you pay him.
If you don't, then you're just treading water while trying to find one. The 18th best QB just isn't that much more valuable for team success than the 30th or 35th. None of them are good enough.
That’s an interesting way to put it.
The Cousins and Tannehill contracts may be a help here. These guys are overpaid but if they were earning, let’s say, $20-25mm annually, that’s more sensible. After our Cowboys loss, I was wondering if Dak Prescott might fall in the same camp.
In these three cases, there were very public writhings about whether the QB in question was worth it. But someone ended up paying the big money, no matter the concerns.
Then there are the cases with teams that genuinely tried to make a go with flawed but decent QBs. I’m thinking the 49ers and Chiefs with Alex Smith, the Rams with Goff (who was not paid top QB money by the Rams) and the 49ers with Garoppollo (again not paid top tier money). And all of those teams couldn’t make it work and have moved on or are moving on.
So some teams overpay - because they must - and other teams decide not to overpay - and change their minds (0 titles for the teams in that group though they were all excellent squads).
So Jerry, brilliant post. Totally see your point of view and the great minds in the NFL agree. And one more reason to just let Jones walk.
You either have a great QB and he’s worth paying. Or you don’t and your chances of winning a title are slim.
This amazes me! Are you really trying to compare Jones to Kirk Cousins? Please post their career stats and even try to justify that comparison? Even Tanihill has one season Jones could only dream about! Trubisky and Mariota are the only starting QBs that compare.
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In comment 15844424 Big Blue Blogger said:
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Jones might enter free agency in a stronger position than MM. On the other hand, there's not-insignificant chance that he's coming off either a benching or another injury.
I think Jones's arm talent is in the "good enough" category. He can make all the throws, although neither his power nor his accuracy is exceptional. The bigger question with Jones is whether he sees and processes with sufficient speed and acuity to get the most from his arm talent. I don't think any of us can perform that level of analysis. As a runner, he's more fast than elusive. So he can take a well-designed, well-blocked play to the house; but he seldom frustrates a defense by escaping trouble, like Jackson or Hurts or Fields. He did it a couple of times on Sunday, which stood out because it's not his strength.
What does this profile mean for his market value? I honestly don't know. I suspect that different teams will value him quite differently, because so much of his value involves projection into a more favorable set of circumstances.
except Jones can't "make all the throws". There are throws that Herbert, Allen, Stafford, Rodgers, and Mahomes routinely make, that Jones can't make. So this truism that Jones can make all the throws is just a platitude and not based in reality. He might make "enough throws". But that's a different linguistic construction and a different reality.
What "throws" has Jones not made?
Do you watch elite QBs in this league? What do you think makes them elite? Their telegenic smile?
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In comment 15844193 Ron from Ninerland said:
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On the rare occasions that Sheppard has been healthy and back when Slayton was worth a damn, Jones showed that he is indeed a good passer that can throw lasers downfield into tight coverage. You can be sure that every other GM has seen that too. The question going forward with Jones is his health. If he can stay healthy, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Bucs went after him after Brady packs it in, as well as other teams needing a QB without a high pick.
Jones is a bottom tier passer. The entire Giants game plan is to scheme around his limitations as a passer.
And you're a bottom tier poster, as many others have pointed out. There's no use arguing with you.
Ad hominem attacks, huh? Means you haven't a leg to stand on. An unserious poster.
Can’t you be reasonable? Why isn’t it ok to think Jones isn’t a huge difference maker while also recognizing that he’s playing in a bottom 5, likely bottom 3 offensive unit in the league?
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In comment 15844625 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15844612 Ron Johnson said:
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In comment 15844576 Mike from SI said:
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a lot of you don't watch other teams play. That's the only way I can account for the evaluations of Jones on here.
How do you evaluate Jones by watching other teams?
By having relevant context instead of "boy, you guys sure would have run Phil Simms out of town 43 years ago."
The play of the Giants offensive line is relevant. The play of the Bucs offensive line is irrelevant.
You're 100% wrong.
If you're going to make comparisons, relative context is necessary. And if you're going to understand how any player contributes to a winning program, you need to be aware of the status of the rest of the league.
This isn't complicated. But it also doesn't come as a surprise that you don't get it.
Wow, going ‘snot-nosed’ pretty quick huh?
Whatever. do your evaluations tonight. Let us know how Jones grades out