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Don't look now....*ducks*

ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:03 pm
Andrew Thomas is playing like an all pro
Saquon Barkley is playing like an all pro
Dexter Lawrence is playing like an all pro
Xavier McKinney is a pro bowler
Adoree Jackson is having an excellent season
Ojulari flying around and contributing at a high level
Love has turned a corner
Crowder, Robinson, Holmes have been contributing

Who drafted these players?
lol  
UConn4523 : 10/3/2022 1:06 pm : link
looking forward to reading all the reasons why we shouldn't be excited for how they are all playing.
I will say it really  
UConn4523 : 10/3/2022 1:06 pm : link
continues to drive home how bad our previous coaching staff was.
To answer your question...  
KingBlue : 10/3/2022 1:06 pm : link
The Tennessee titans drafted Adoree Jackson
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:06 pm : link
i'm only kidding. but still. a lot of these guys were ridiculed for years by posters who are no longer here
RE: To answer your question...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:07 pm : link
In comment 15844096 KingBlue said:
Quote:
The Tennessee titans drafted Adoree Jackson

good catch! but you get my point
FA and coach selection was DG problem  
George from PA : 10/3/2022 1:07 pm : link
His persona also didn't do him any favors.

His drafting was decent....getting an extra top 10 draft pick this year was pretty good.

He wanted Micah Parsons but Judge vetoed it
Coaching matters  
mattlawson : 10/3/2022 1:08 pm : link
And DGs insistnace that it takes a few years to “bring the puppies along” was also true. But good coaching matters
Serious Question...  
John In CO : 10/3/2022 1:08 pm : link
Now that the Pro Bowl has been done away with, will there still be such thing as a "Pro Bowler"? Are they still naming a team....maybe guys who get invited to participate in all the non-game events they usually do... even though there will be no game?
Some positive signs  
bceagle05 : 10/3/2022 1:09 pm : link
but you can identify a few good players on even the worst teams in the league. By NFL standards, the cupboard is still pretty bare.
Did I miss Gettleman...  
bw in dc : 10/3/2022 1:10 pm : link
as the GM of Tennessee when they drafted Adoree Jackson?
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:10 pm : link
as i've said a million times, most GMs draft records are fairly even...there are some outliers who are just better than others at evaluating talent, but DG was pretty good at it. He was involved with hiring 2 head coaches that were in over their head and made some disastrous FA signings.

We are going to need like 10 franchise tags with this loaded  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 1:13 pm : link
roster he left us...

The same guy that drafted Toney, Baker, Beal, Hernandez...  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/3/2022 1:13 pm : link
...and Peart.
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:13 pm : link
i'll go one step further and say that Gettleman was better at drafting players than Jerry Reese.
RE: The same guy that drafted Toney, Baker, Beal, Hernandez...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:14 pm : link
In comment 15844123 sb from NYT Forum said:
Quote:
...and Peart.

Right, he made some horrible draft picks as well, but that's not the point of the post.
And not for nothing but the DJ Fan Club  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 1:14 pm : link
is going to be joining this thread soon and be very angry that he wasn't mentioned in your OP.

hater...
Why omit  
5BowlsSoon : 10/3/2022 1:15 pm : link
Jones?

If you want to puff up DG, certainly you should add his prize pick
I understand your point  
nyjuggernaut2 : 10/3/2022 1:15 pm : link
but the year Gettlemen took Saquon he also passed up on Josh Allen.
..  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:15 pm : link
Googs, i still like Jones. Wouldn't bother me one bit if the new regime decided to trade up for CJ Stroud, but i think Jones can be the quarterback of this team moving forward if they keep building it.
IDC  
ChrisRick : 10/3/2022 1:16 pm : link
who drafted the players, I am just glad they are playing well. Although it is only the end of the first quarter of the season.
The win/loss record and two fired coaching staffs  
Ten Ton Hammer : 10/3/2022 1:16 pm : link
Speaks for itself.

The fact that at 3 wins half the board wants to sign everyone and everything long term kinda speaks to how awful things have been here for almost a decade.
RE: The win/loss record and two fired coaching staffs  
ChrisRick : 10/3/2022 1:18 pm : link
In comment 15844144 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
Speaks for itself.

The fact that at 3 wins half the board wants to sign everyone and everything long term kinda speaks to how awful things have been here for almost a decade.


Right, and we tend to be too excited when things are going well, and too down when things are going so well.
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:18 pm : link
the story on Jones is yet to be written. He's had some moments this year. Game winning drive on the road against Tennessee. Played well against Dallas with 12 guys in his face on every play. Played well yesterday with what they had, and he's adapting to the new scheme with next to nothing at WR.

I still want to see him play the season out.
*are not*  
ChrisRick : 10/3/2022 1:18 pm : link
going so well.
RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 1:20 pm : link
In comment 15844152 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the story on Jones is yet to be written. He's had some moments this year. Game winning drive on the road against Tennessee. Played well against Dallas with 12 guys in his face on every play. Played well yesterday with what they had, and he's adapting to the new scheme with next to nothing at WR.

I still want to see him play the season out.


Is that why all the pressure came during the Dallas game...they had 12 guys on the field?
Jones' story  
ChrisRick : 10/3/2022 1:21 pm : link
is pretty much written for me, unless there is a surprise twist at the end. In my view he is an ok quarterback, we could do much better. However, if the coaching staff continues to show they know what they are doing and want to keep Jones, then I will re-evaluate.
I’m not one to defend Gettleman  
Sean : 10/3/2022 1:22 pm : link
However, it was reported that Gettleman coveted Micah Parsons by Peter King, and it was Judge who pounded the table for Toney.
RE: RE: The same guy that drafted Toney, Baker, Beal, Hernandez...  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/3/2022 1:22 pm : link
In comment 15844128 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15844123 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


...and Peart.


Right, he made some horrible draft picks as well, but that's not the point of the post.


What was the point of the post then?
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/3/2022 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15844152 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
the story on Jones is yet to be written.

He's 4 games into his 4th season. The story on Jones is 80% written whether you want to acknowledge it or not.
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:25 pm : link
right, and everyone thought Saquon Barkley sucked and his career was over. Everyone thought Andrew Thomas was a bust, etc.

Jones' career here is not done with quite yet.
RE: I’m not one to defend Gettleman  
bw in dc : 10/3/2022 1:26 pm : link
In comment 15844161 Sean said:
Quote:
However, it was reported that Gettleman coveted Micah Parsons by Peter King, and it was Judge who pounded the table for Toney.


A few versions on Parsons out there. Some contend Parsons was flagged on the board for his personality and it was a consensus to avoid another Baker situation...
RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15844097 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i'm only kidding. but still. a lot of these guys were ridiculed for years by posters who are no longer here


How could they be ridiculed for years when most are in their 2nd or 3rd year here?
Gettleman  
lax counsel : 10/3/2022 1:30 pm : link
Left this team bereft of talent in many, many positions. Yet somehow, the team is in salary cap hell. He's had a few nice finds, which I now attribute more to a potentially great coaching staff making chicken salad from chicken sh**. Gettleman's tenure here was an abject failure and utter embarrassment. His GM job during his stint should go down as a top 5 worst GM performance all time.
ajr  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:31 pm : link
Barkley, Thomas, and Lawrence: all players who a lot of posters have said were horrible draft picks and wanted nothing to do with.
RE: ...  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15844169 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
right, and everyone thought Saquon Barkley sucked and his career was over. Everyone thought Andrew Thomas was a bust, etc.

Jones' career here is not done with quite yet.


Good lord...nobody said Barkley's career was over.

The debates (real ones) are whether it makes sense to invest bigger dollars in a oft-injured RB going on his second contract. Especially for a team still rebuilding in so many areas.
RE: RE: I’m not one to defend Gettleman  
Doubledeuce22 : 10/3/2022 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15844170 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15844161 Sean said:


Quote:


However, it was reported that Gettleman coveted Micah Parsons by Peter King, and it was Judge who pounded the table for Toney.



A few versions on Parsons out there. Some contend Parsons was flagged on the board for his personality and it was a consensus to avoid another Baker situation...


But draft Toney in the same draft? Lol. Makes sense.
RE: ...  
Larry in Pencilvania : 10/3/2022 1:32 pm : link
In comment 15844097 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i'm only kidding. but still. a lot of these guys were ridiculed for years by posters who are no longer here


If I remember correctly you waxed poetically about the prior regime that they could do no wrong. This roster isn't elite and is loaded with issues, so I wouldn't get on a high horse and crow. The other side can tear your argument apart
RE: RE: RE: I’m not one to defend Gettleman  
bw in dc : 10/3/2022 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15844187 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15844170 bw in dc said:

A few versions on Parsons out there. Some contend Parsons was flagged on the board for his personality and it was a consensus to avoid another Baker situation...



But draft Toney in the same draft? Lol. Makes sense.


Yeah, you can't make it up.
RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/3/2022 1:35 pm : link
In comment 15844169 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
right, and everyone thought Saquon Barkley sucked and his career was over. Everyone thought Andrew Thomas was a bust, etc.

Jones' career here is not done with quite yet.

I think your reading comprehension deficiencies are on display often enough that we don't need to belabor the thread with them, but if I'm not mistaken, the issues with Barkley were that you don't take a RB so highly in the draft because their marginal value doesn't justify how expensive the #2 overall pick is (at any position) and the overall health record at that position tends to be spotty.

Guess what? Barkley missed essentially half of his most affordable years, in his prime, due to injury. Which is a RB issue more than a Barkley issue. Which is why people complained about taking a RB at #2 overall not about taking Barkley personally at #2 overall. And those who advocated for the selection pointed out that Barkley is different from all those other RBs, but is he? He got injured just like them, and now in his resurgent campaign so far, he's being used an awful lot like a traditional RB.

That said, Barkley has been tremendous this season. I'm glad he's on the team. And I think the draft pick was awful and was the first indication that DG was fucking clueless and out of touch with the modern game of NFL football.

As usual, both things can be true.

And while you're sitting there enjoying the aroma of your own flatulence, why don't you also share with us some of the many instances of you pleading with BBI to give players another chance, to let it play out, etc., where the player wound up never justifying your patience? You've been wrong way more often than you've been right. I don't think you should be taking a victory lap unless you want the feedback for your frequent bad takes.
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/3/2022 1:38 pm : link
Unbelievable that there are still fans making excuses for the last 10 years.

Unbelievable.
Gettleman did draft well at the end. No denying it.  
Mike in Long Beach : 10/3/2022 1:39 pm : link
And if Toney could somehow find a way to stay healthy, we know he's a talented player, and that trade with the Bears might wind up EXCEPTIONAL.

There's more to being a GM than drafting though.

- He was a God awful evaluator of coaches
- He was a God awful manager of the salary cap
- He was a God awful evaluator of free agents
- He, mostly, prioritized the wrong positions in every facet of roster management
- He showed an unwillingness to change or even adjust his preconceived notions
- He took no accountability for the organization's recent shortcomings.

So yeah, I'll give you his drafts are not bad. They were actually mostly pretty good... but that's the beginning and end on any positive statement regarding Gettleman.
Gettleman sucked.  
an_idol_mind : 10/3/2022 1:39 pm : link
His idiotic decisions got two coaching staffs fired. That he drafted players that another staff is getting to perform is not relevant.

He had four years to get this team into shape, and he couldn't put together a roster good enough to get more than six wins. And all through it, he was arrogant as hell.

If Gettleman was still in the front office, we'd be 0-4 and he'd be saying, "I've got a six year plan, darlin'."
RE: ...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:41 pm : link
In comment 15844207 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Unbelievable that there are still fans making excuses for the last 10 years.

Unbelievable.

Eric - you're not understanding. I'm specifically mentioning players drafted by Gettleman who are playing at an elite level this season. That's it. That was all I said.
..  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:44 pm : link
Gettleman was a very bad GM. I am just making the point about THESE PLAYERS who were either drafted or signed by him.
RE: RE: I’m not one to defend Gettleman  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 1:44 pm : link
In comment 15844170 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15844161 Sean said:


Quote:


However, it was reported that Gettleman coveted Micah Parsons by Peter King, and it was Judge who pounded the table for Toney.



A few versions on Parsons out there. Some contend Parsons was flagged on the board for his personality and it was a consensus to avoid another Baker situation...


The version that matters being the Giants (not just DG and not just Judge or anybody else) wanted one of the Bama receivers with their pick, not Parsons.

With Waddle taken earlier and then when they got jumped for Smith, they activated their option to trade down with Chicago, and had 5 names or so in the next tier that they would pick from when they got there. However, when they got to #20 all those names were either gone and/or they pulled up Toney on their board to get Jones a much-needed playmaker.

No need to make this a DG or JJ pick debate...
....  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:46 pm : link
if it's true that DG wanted Parsons, it strengthens my point about his ability to draft high end talent. He was terrible at the other stuff.
RE: FA and coach selection was DG problem  
Rjanyg : 10/3/2022 1:47 pm : link
In comment 15844103 George from PA said:
Quote:
His persona also didn't do him any favors.

His drafting was decent....getting an extra top 10 draft pick this year was pretty good.

He wanted Micah Parsons but Judge vetoed it


Wait, Judge vetoed Parsons? Not Mara? I have never heard this before.
Drafting Barkley was still a mistake  
rsjem1979 : 10/3/2022 1:48 pm : link
.
Ximines is playing well too  
Rjanyg : 10/3/2022 1:49 pm : link
Also look at how much better we are with Leo in the line up. We actually have bunch of talent on Defense.
RE: ....  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 1:49 pm : link
In comment 15844239 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
if it's true that DG wanted Parsons, it strengthens my point about his ability to draft high end talent. He was terrible at the other stuff.


You mean he had the ability to log onto the ESPN website and print out a list of the top 20 or so prospects in each draft?

well done...
RE: RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 1:49 pm : link
In comment 15844223 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15844207 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Unbelievable that there are still fans making excuses for the last 10 years.

Unbelievable.


Eric - you're not understanding. I'm specifically mentioning players drafted by Gettleman who are playing at an elite level this season. That's it. That was all I said.


The make a post and hide behind “was kidding” or “it’s not how you’re interpreting it” is hilarious.

We know this is a “Gettleman wasn’t that bad” thread.
Googs  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:50 pm : link
now you're just being obtuse.
ajr  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:50 pm : link
right, and you think that because you've been the guy saying Barkley absolutely sucks for 2 years.
Getty built a wining roster!  
trueblueinpw : 10/3/2022 1:51 pm : link
As long as we’re playing against the Bears and other second division teams. But this team doesn’t have playmakers and it ain’t competing against the good teams in the NFL. One the most damming indictments of the Giants horrible management, from front office to the sidelines to the training room to the player on the field and even to the field itself is the past decade of horrible results while playing an NFL last place schedule.

The coaching Schoen put together is light years better than the tomato cans Getty hired. DaBALLs and his massive staff of Kafka and Wink are getting the most from the players on the field. They aren’t giving away games with stupid calls and mismanagement. But let’s not kid ourselves, Getty made far more horrible calls than bad calls and he hardly got anything right. The players we have aren’t wining a Division title or Supe this year or next.
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:52 pm : link
i made a post about players drafted by DG - some who are really good, some contributors, some elite....and you guys get so triggered by it.
RE: Googs  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 1:53 pm : link
In comment 15844252 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
now you're just being obtuse.


Well, then I guess I fit right into the logic of this thread...
RE: RE: ...  
lax counsel : 10/3/2022 1:53 pm : link
In comment 15844196 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15844169 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


right, and everyone thought Saquon Barkley sucked and his career was over. Everyone thought Andrew Thomas was a bust, etc.

Jones' career here is not done with quite yet.


I think your reading comprehension deficiencies are on display often enough that we don't need to belabor the thread with them, but if I'm not mistaken, the issues with Barkley were that you don't take a RB so highly in the draft because their marginal value doesn't justify how expensive the #2 overall pick is (at any position) and the overall health record at that position tends to be spotty.

Guess what? Barkley missed essentially half of his most affordable years, in his prime, due to injury. Which is a RB issue more than a Barkley issue. Which is why people complained about taking a RB at #2 overall not about taking Barkley personally at #2 overall. And those who advocated for the selection pointed out that Barkley is different from all those other RBs, but is he? He got injured just like them, and now in his resurgent campaign so far, he's being used an awful lot like a traditional RB.

That said, Barkley has been tremendous this season. I'm glad he's on the team. And I think the draft pick was awful and was the first indication that DG was fucking clueless and out of touch with the modern game of NFL football.

As usual, both things can be true.

And while you're sitting there enjoying the aroma of your own flatulence, why don't you also share with us some of the many instances of you pleading with BBI to give players another chance, to let it play out, etc., where the player wound up never justifying your patience? You've been wrong way more often than you've been right. I don't think you should be taking a victory lap unless you want the feedback for your frequent bad takes.


This sums it up nicely. Its a nuance that few posters were able to distinguish. It wasn't picking Barkley himself that was a mistake, it was the position itself. To your point, the argument was that Barkley was the exception, not the rule. It has been proven 5 years out that Barkley was part of the rule, not the exception. His was not a difference maker in his cheapest years, largely due to injury, which was the foundational argument for not investing high in a running back.
RE: ajr  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 1:54 pm : link
In comment 15844253 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
right, and you think that because you've been the guy saying Barkley absolutely sucks for 2 years.


Find a post where I’ve said Barkley sucks. I’ve said picking a running back second is a mistake. That the pick was a mistake because of the injuries. That the way he ran wasn’t a style that’s worth giving a second contract to, but I’ve never said he’s not talented.
I will not respond... I will not respond...  
Big Blue Blogger : 10/3/2022 1:54 pm : link
I will not respond...
Gettleman  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/3/2022 1:54 pm : link
actually did the impossible and screwed up the team worse than Reese/Ross. To the point where Schoen and Daboll can't even cut players they want to cut.

They'll still be cleaning up this mess for years.

RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 1:54 pm : link
In comment 15844260 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
i made a post about players drafted by DG - some who are really good, some contributors, some elite....and you guys get so triggered by it.


Classic Ryan.
RE: ....  
Larry in Pencilvania : 10/3/2022 1:57 pm : link
In comment 15844239 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
if it's true that DG wanted Parsons, it strengthens my point about his ability to draft high end talent. He was terrible at the other stuff.


YES!!! Daniel Jones, DeAndre Baker and Kadarious Toney have lit the league on fire. Let's not forget the mishandling of position value with Barkley and the #2 overall pick. Should we also discuss the overall neglect of the O-Line and WR position in the draft???
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 1:57 pm : link
well, based on Barkley's healthy play - which would be all of his rookie year, most of year 2, and this year....Allen is the only player in that top 10 that I would want over him. Obviously Allen *should* have been the pick, I don't think anyone thought he would turn out like he did. And I'm not even sure the Giants take him even if they wanted to move on from Eli. They would have taken Darnold.

When healthy, I'd rather have Barkley over Nelson. You can find a really good interior guard. Players of Barkley's talent don't necessarily come around often.
Development and coaching  
gfinop : 10/3/2022 1:58 pm : link
matters more than draft order or even choice for that matter.
Let's not forget the resources sunk into the CB position  
Larry in Pencilvania : 10/3/2022 1:58 pm : link
in the draft with nothing to show for it. Yup Gettleman was a great drafter
Re Barkley being drafted #2  
lawguy9801 : 10/3/2022 1:59 pm : link
The debate at that time was not Barkley vs Allen…it was Barkley vs Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen. The consensus was Allen was not worthy of a top 5 pick.

So while I think DG was indeed a bad GM, all things considered and with 20/20 hindsight I don’t think you can fault him for the pick. Where would the team be had it, say, built around Darnold?
RE: Let's not forget the resources sunk into the CB position  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 2:00 pm : link
In comment 15844286 Larry in Pencilvania said:
Quote:
in the draft with nothing to show for it. Yup Gettleman was a great drafter

Again, completely missing the entire point.
Gettleman drafted in the top 11 of each round each year...  
sb from NYT Forum : 10/3/2022 2:00 pm : link
...including two years in the top 4. And he had a boatload of picks (something like 22 total in 2018 and 2019).

And his hit rate was still way less than 50%.
FIRE SCHOEN!! BRING BACK DG!!  
DC Gmen Fan : 10/3/2022 2:03 pm : link
There
ajr  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 2:03 pm : link
you continue to completely miss the point
RE: ajr  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 2:06 pm : link
In comment 15844298 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you continue to completely miss the point


What is the point exactly?
RE: IDC  
eli4life : 10/3/2022 2:11 pm : link
In comment 15844141 ChrisRick said:
Quote:
who drafted the players, I am just glad they are playing well. Although it is only the end of the first quarter of the season.


And you can add how many past first quarters till you get to how many wins we have now
RE: RE: ....  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/3/2022 2:11 pm : link
In comment 15844249 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15844239 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


if it's true that DG wanted Parsons, it strengthens my point about his ability to draft high end talent. He was terrible at the other stuff.



You mean he had the ability to log onto the ESPN website and print out a list of the top 20 or so prospects in each draft?

well done...

In fairness, don't you find it somewhat impressive that DG would even be able to log onto the ESPN website in the first place? So what if the instructions had to be hand-written on post-it notes for him?

Lets be honest  
lax counsel : 10/3/2022 2:11 pm : link
The point of this entire thread was a thinly veiled kudos to Gettleman thread, couch in "humor." It's so bad, the leader of the entire forum/website had to call out the OP.

Some of these posters need to relax a little with the sign Jones/Barkley long term and see Gettleman was great, posts. Why not focus on how good the coaching staff is and how Schoen has made positive impact so far in selecting the staff.
The point is the site needs more comic relief these days  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 2:11 pm : link
and threads like this help with that...
RE: FIRE SCHOEN!! BRING BACK DG!!  
lax counsel : 10/3/2022 2:12 pm : link
In comment 15844296 DC Gmen Fan said:
Quote:
There


Why stop there??!! Daboll is terrible, bring back Judge!! Hell, bring back Judge with Matt Patricia as O coordinator!!!!!
Hard to think DG drafted better than Reese  
RollBlue : 10/3/2022 2:14 pm : link
DG was drafting top 5, top 10, Reese was usually picking in the 20s.
Gettleman drafted well overall  
giantBCP : 10/3/2022 2:14 pm : link
Joe Judge and big name free agent busts were his downfall.
RE: ..  
eli4life : 10/3/2022 2:15 pm : link
In comment 15844232 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Gettleman was a very bad GM. I am just making the point about THESE PLAYERS who were either drafted or signed by him.


All you need to know is with the worst oline in the nfl in his last draft he didn’t even draft 1 lineman not even a late rounder. He should of been canned that day
His QB replacement  
allstarjim : 10/3/2022 2:15 pm : link
strategy was horrific. He was an abject failure.

Even Dexter Lawrence, which seems like a good pick, was not, because Jeffrey Simmons, playing the same position and picked a couple of picks later, was right there. And he is much better than Big Dex, who is a good player.

Trade up for DeAndre Baker was one of the most head-scratching trades I've ever seen.

Worse,it seems they avoided guys like Simmons and Parsons for apparent character flags but then trade up using valuable assets for DeAndre Baker and drafts Kadarius Toney (with Rashod Bateman on the board, mind you.
And that tells me he and the scouting department weren't really doing their homework on these guys.

Remember him saying about Baker they felt he was a clean prospect all the way around, yet insiders around the league dropped him bc of character.

This was published info on the internet, but DG didn't have a clue.

I love Saquon, loved the pick, would've done the same thing with that pick, but when the phone rings you have to answer. HE DIDN'T EVEN PICK UP THE PHONE. He's a clown and glad he's gone.
RE: RE: RE: ....  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 2:16 pm : link
In comment 15844316 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:


In fairness, don't you find it somewhat impressive that DG would even be able to log onto the ESPN website in the first place? So what if the instructions had to be hand-written on post-it notes for him?



Dunk - if you look close enough at that computer screen, he is actually doing the The Wordle. And on the post-it note he writes down the answer for each of the past few days...
RE: RE: IDC  
ChrisRick : 10/3/2022 2:17 pm : link
In comment 15844315 eli4life said:
Quote:
In comment 15844141 ChrisRick said:


Quote:


who drafted the players, I am just glad they are playing well. Although it is only the end of the first quarter of the season.



And you can add how many past first quarters till you get to how many wins we have now


I'm happy with the wins, but it is still early in the season and career of our new HC.
I think this highlights  
g56blue10 : 10/3/2022 2:17 pm : link
Two things. DG drafted some really good players but he absolutely failed in developing even an avg O-line and was awful at identifying receivers.

The failure of the developing the O-line is my greater disappointment with him because I really believed he would succeed there
....  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 2:18 pm : link
ajr, the point is that Gettleman actually may have drafted really well at the top of the draft.
RE: Gettleman drafted well overall  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/3/2022 2:19 pm : link
In comment 15844328 giantBCP said:
Quote:
Joe Judge and big name free agent busts were his downfall.

If you say so, Dave.
RE: Hard to think DG drafted better than Reese  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 2:21 pm : link
In comment 15844327 RollBlue said:
Quote:
DG was drafting top 5, top 10, Reese was usually picking in the 20s.


Anyone saying they’d prefer DG drafting over Reese is in a fantasy world. The 2007 draft beats out DG’s entire body of work alone: Ross, Smith, Boss, Deossie, Alford, Bradshaw.

Other Reese picks, let’s limit to four drafts to be fair to Dave:

2008:
Kenny Phillips
Mario Manningham
Terrell Thomas
Jonathan Goff
Bryan Kehl

2009:
Hakeem Nicks
Will Beatty

2010:

JPP, Linval Joseph
I like that we're 3-1 but  
widmerseyebrow : 10/3/2022 2:21 pm : link
I think the fan base is in for a rude awakening as far as our overall talent level goes.
RE: RE: RE: ....  
bw in dc : 10/3/2022 2:22 pm : link
In comment 15844316 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15844249 Jimmy Googs said:


In fairness, don't you find it somewhat impressive that DG would even be able to log onto the ESPN website in the first place? So what if the instructions had to be hand-written on post-it notes for him?



Nor was I falling for the Gettleman Family photo album in front of the laptop disguised as some sort of detailed player profile manual.
ryan, I can agree with you most of the time and the only thing  
Dinger : 10/3/2022 2:22 pm : link
here I can agree with you on is putting the *ducks* in the main line. You're just looking for trouble with this thread. Gettleman and team made a few good choices in both the draft that you point out and the FA (I am still happy with the Bradberry and Martinez signings), but even good stuff he f'd up. Leonard Williams had ONE team vying for his services and we outbid outselves (see Galloday). Mentioning Crowder Robinson and holmes you might has well have mentioned Baker, Beal and Connelly. Just so many more mistakes by that FO that attributing half dozen or so 'finds' as justification is wrong.
RE: ....  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 2:24 pm : link
In comment 15844338 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
ajr, the point is that Gettleman actually may have drafted really well at the top of the draft.


I would hope he hit on some players picking top 10 in every round every year he was GM. He also hired the coaches that stunted and delayed their development. He also missed on a bunch of premium picks too. Your obsession with wanting to give Dave pats on the back is weird., but you did think he just needed more time even toward the end so I get it. The guy set this franchise back so much, his name doesn’t even deserve to be spoken in connection with the Giants.
ajr  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 2:26 pm : link
you are quoting Jay Alford as a good draft pick?
ajr  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 2:28 pm : link
well, if the Giants get back to their winnings ways and Andrew Thomas, Saquon Barkley, Dexter Lawrence, and Xavier McKinney are the some of core reasons why....then yes, Gettleman's name should have a connection with the team.
Why did you include Darnay Holmes?  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 2:29 pm : link
Alford played well in the playoff DL rotation. He had one of the biggest defensive plays in that Super Bowl.
RE: ajr  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 2:30 pm : link
In comment 15844367 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
well, if the Giants get back to their winnings ways and Andrew Thomas, Saquon Barkley, Dexter Lawrence, and Xavier McKinney are the some of core reasons why....then yes, Gettleman's name should have a connection with the team.


Is Dave a family member or something?
Right now, it's a very positive performing group of talent  
JonC : 10/3/2022 2:32 pm : link
acquired during the DG era. Obviously, the new coaching staff and staying healthy while being properly utilized are contributing factors to their successes.

Now, complete the thought exercise and cover the rest of DG's job performance.
...  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 2:33 pm : link
Jay Alford played two seasons with the Giants, had 16 total tackles in those two seasons, then retired a year later. He was a third round pick, was never a starter, and never really made an impact, except for yes obviously the big SB play.

He was not a good draft pick, at all.
RE: ...  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 2:36 pm : link
In comment 15844376 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
Jay Alford played two seasons with the Giants, had 16 total tackles in those two seasons, then retired a year later. He was a third round pick, was never a starter, and never really made an impact, except for yes obviously the big SB play.

He was not a good draft pick, at all.


He’s contributed more than Darnay Holmes. What about the rest of the list Buddy.
ajr  
ryanmkeane : 10/3/2022 2:36 pm : link
are you really that unaware? Holmes has done way more in his career in his first 2+ seasons than Alford as a player.
Jay Alford forever has a place in my heart.  
DC Gmen Fan : 10/3/2022 2:38 pm : link
.
DG should have been fired when Pat Shurmur was fired  
Chris684 : 10/3/2022 2:38 pm : link
just for hiring Pat Shurmur.
Gettleman...  
RHPeel : 10/3/2022 2:39 pm : link
Gettleman was a decent good evaluator of talent but was not a good strategist/planner. Peter Principle guy; it happens.

Happy to have him running scouting, but he was not a good GM, no matter what happens with the guys he drafted.
RE: FA and coach selection was DG problem  
Ivan15 : 10/3/2022 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15844103 George from PA said:
Quote:
His persona also didn't do him any favors.

His drafting was decent....getting an extra top 10 draft pick this year was pretty good.

He wanted Micah Parsons but Judge vetoed it

__________________________________________________________
Did Judge have a hard on for the SEC? Was that the issue? If true, that makes a lot of sense now.
__________________________________________________________
RE: RE: The same guy that drafted Toney, Baker, Beal, Hernandez...  
mikeinbloomfield : 10/3/2022 2:40 pm : link
In comment 15844128 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15844123 sb from NYT Forum said:


Quote:


...and Peart.


Right, he made some horrible draft picks as well, but that's not the point of the post.


So what is the point? As you've said, he made some horrible FA acquisitions, which is the reason Schoen doesn't have the cap flexibility he wants. He also made some stupid trades, head of the list is the trade for LW.

Having Saquon on the team does not mean he was the right pick at 2, either. He got some other guys right. Whoop de doo. The fact that he was constantly picking high in almost every round helps too, why would that be.

And as others have pointed out, you don't mention Jones. Regardless of how he has played, he didn't get his option picked up. For a guy picked 6th, that's not easy to do.
I'd like to make a wager  
LawrenceTaylor56 : 10/3/2022 2:42 pm : link
that you won't post this same exact thread in December. Enjoy the 3-1 record.

But save us the Gettleman wasn't bad schtick.
RE: ajr  
ajr2456 : 10/3/2022 2:43 pm : link
In comment 15844385 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
are you really that unaware? Holmes has done way more in his career in his first 2+ seasons than Alford as a player.


Why do you keep harping on Jay Alford and ignoring the entire list that makes your asinine statement that Gettleman was a better drafter than Reese look bad?
RE: Re Barkley being drafted #2  
RHPeel : 10/3/2022 2:46 pm : link
In comment 15844288 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
The debate at that time was not Barkley vs Allen…it was Barkley vs Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen. The consensus was Allen was not worthy of a top 5 pick.

So while I think DG was indeed a bad GM, all things considered and with 20/20 hindsight I don’t think you can fault him for the pick. Where would the team be had it, say, built around Darnold?


You can absolutely fault him for not answering the phone. That team desperately needed talent; the cupboard was bare. If the Giants took the package the Jets offered the Colts they'd be far better off today than if they'd drafted Barkley.

It was the fundamental mistake of his tenure.
I think both DG and JR  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/3/2022 2:48 pm : link
did great things for the organization. I also think both did incredibly damaging things to the organization.

For me the drafts of 2011-17 (and drafts of 09-10 after round 2) was far more damaging with the HC and QB already in the building. Dave's inability to not have a quality OL by 2 and certainly by year 3 is not far behind.

I wonder how much the Mara meddling factor increased after EA left. Seems like one of those got greater over time.
Didn't Gettleman also lead the charge...  
bw in dc : 10/3/2022 2:55 pm : link
in hiring head coaches? At the very least, he was the co-pilot with Mara.

And those hires were not very flattering.
...  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 2:59 pm : link

RE: Re Barkley being drafted #2  
mikeinbloomfield : 10/3/2022 3:03 pm : link
In comment 15844288 lawguy9801 said:
Quote:
The debate at that time was not Barkley vs Allen…it was Barkley vs Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen. The consensus was Allen was not worthy of a top 5 pick.

So while I think DG was indeed a bad GM, all things considered and with 20/20 hindsight I don’t think you can fault him for the pick. Where would the team be had it, say, built around Darnold?


The "debate" may have been between Barkley and the QBs, the smart option is to trade down if you don't like any of the QBs, which the Giants obviously did not. But DG didn't trade down, so to a roster bereft of talent we added a "luxury" guy. Dumb.
RE: RE: Re Barkley being drafted #2  
Jimmy Googs : 10/3/2022 3:09 pm : link
In comment 15844434 mikeinbloomfield said:
Quote:
In comment 15844288 lawguy9801 said:


Quote:


The debate at that time was not Barkley vs Allen…it was Barkley vs Mayfield, Darnold or Rosen. The consensus was Allen was not worthy of a top 5 pick.

So while I think DG was indeed a bad GM, all things considered and with 20/20 hindsight I don’t think you can fault him for the pick. Where would the team be had it, say, built around Darnold?



The "debate" may have been between Barkley and the QBs, the smart option is to trade down if you don't like any of the QBs, which the Giants obviously did not. But DG didn't trade down, so to a roster bereft of talent we added a "luxury" guy. Dumb.


Yep.

The value of that #2 slot wasn't optimized. That spot was for some team to take a QB in that 2018 draft. If the Gettleman evaluation process wasn't comfortable with any of the QBs then the play was to get out of thast spot for highest value offered versus just drafting a good RB which would have been available in Rd 2 as well...
Jeffery Simmons  
Adam G in Big D : 10/3/2022 6:22 pm : link
had off the field, legal issues.
RE: Jeffery Simmons  
allstarjim : 10/3/2022 10:50 pm : link
In comment 15844747 Adam G in Big D said:
Quote:
had off the field, legal issues.


He had a character flag, that didn't prevent him from being picked a couple of picks later by the Titans, and who has had zero issues in the NFL, and certainly didn't prevent him from being 2nd team All-Pro last season.

But the point is, you passed on the superior DT talent which I assume was bc of the flag, but traded up for Baker in the same draft. Also didn't prevent that GM from taking Kadarius Toney.

So it's just not consistent. Simmons was a clear stud if we're just talking about between the lines.

So Gettleman and his staff either were asleep at the wheel with DeAndre Baker or it shouldn't have really been an issue, right?
RE: RE: Jeffery Simmons  
ajr2456 : 10/4/2022 9:19 am : link
In comment 15845194 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15844747 Adam G in Big D said:


Quote:


had off the field, legal issues.



He had a character flag, that didn't prevent him from being picked a couple of picks later by the Titans, and who has had zero issues in the NFL, and certainly didn't prevent him from being 2nd team All-Pro last season.

But the point is, you passed on the superior DT talent which I assume was bc of the flag, but traded up for Baker in the same draft. Also didn't prevent that GM from taking Kadarius Toney.

So it's just not consistent. Simmons was a clear stud if we're just talking about between the lines.

So Gettleman and his staff either were asleep at the wheel with DeAndre Baker or it shouldn't have really been an issue, right?


This. Blaming character issues is a cop out.
When you're  
Shady Lurker : 10/4/2022 9:27 am : link
drafting at the top of the round for so long, it's difficult to botch EVERY single pick.

A child with a draft guide could have come out with similar results.
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