Why should the Giants - who are in rebuilding mode - be getting rid of draft picks?
Holy crap guys... think.
they gave up comp picks to sign tyrod and glowinski, though they should still net 2 extra day 3 picks from comp picks next year.
i wouldn't give up anything beyond a late round pick but if there's a player they like there's not much harm in giving up a 6th or a 7th for a player who could play now. the odds of 6ths/7ths making 53 man rosters is only barely better than UDFA's.
to be clear id only be looking at a young player still on a rookie deal (aka a reverse BJ Hill). had the bengals let him walk for that same contract they gave him but via FA they would have actually recouped a higher comp pick than the pick they gave up for him in the first place.
You guys are still living in denial.
This team has just started the rebuild. Most of the offense will likely be replaced in the offseason. We don't have 11 picks like we did last year.
And our 6th round draft pick from this year, would be starting right now if he did blow out his knee.
Every pick matters.
Good news is Schoen disagrees with you guys wanting to get rid of picks. Thank God.
But for example, Zay Jones got traded for a 5th when he was 24 or 25 years old. Or a WR version of Kenyan Drake who got traded for a 6th round pick.
I'm under no illusions about the quality of the team this year but the hole at WR is so big. If we could get someone young who can help and contribute in the future, I'm totally fine giving up a late pick.
Is bringing in someone for free like, I think Anakim said, the Bills WR on the PS. The problem is who do you kick off the roster? Golladay and Toney can't go anywhere. Ritchie James and Sills are not going anywhere. We still have Wan'Dale coming back. So do you add a 6th WR to such a shitty unit? It is gonna take a serious injury to one of these 5 to truly make a move imo. And for those that think Sills and James are replaceable, this is not an easy offense. It will take time for any new WR to learn the O and get on the same page as Jones. Oh, and Slayton restructured to stay. I am not sure of his cap situation if we were to release him. And as has been mentioned, the Giants have under $4 mil of cap space right now and they are trying to make due this year to get by.
Our receivers stink. Go with more tight ends. Run the ball. Play action pass to running backs and tight ends. Play to our strength.
Run blocking. Barkley. Jones running. Tight ends blocking and receiving. Power football
Defenses are now built for basketball on turf. We need to go old school with power football on offense. Run at the 230 pound middle linebackers. Play action pass. Eat up the clock. Grind the light weight defenses down.
This team has just started the rebuild. Most of the offense will likely be replaced in the offseason. We don't have 11 picks like we did last year.
And our 6th round draft pick from this year, would be starting right now if he did blow out his knee.
Every pick matters.
Good news is Schoen disagrees with you guys wanting to get rid of picks. Thank God.
schoen cancelled out a 5th round pick for glowinski and a 6th round pick for tyrod so he is not nearly as opposed to paying for bandaids as you seem to think. there were a few non-comp pick eligible OL he could have signed other than glowinski at the same price and not cost himself that pick. and for whatever virtues taylor has he's incredibly injury prone as we saw yesterday.
and if, but if, if they believe in the talent. Maybe not a 4th, but any day 3 pick is really probably less valuable than Mims.
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
Is bringing in someone for free like, I think Anakim said, the Bills WR on the PS. The problem is who do you kick off the roster? Golladay and Toney can't go anywhere. Ritchie James and Sills are not going anywhere. We still have Wan'Dale coming back. So do you add a 6th WR to such a shitty unit? It is gonna take a serious injury to one of these 5 to truly make a move imo. And for those that think Sills and James are replaceable, this is not an easy offense. It will take time for any new WR to learn the O and get on the same page as Jones. Oh, and Slayton restructured to stay. I am not sure of his cap situation if we were to release him. And as has been mentioned, the Giants have under $4 mil of cap space right now and they are trying to make due this year to get by.
they can IR golladay. it sounds like daboll said he may not be 'day to day'.
i agree btw that finding a vet somewhere is the best path. supposedly they were in on beasley and he's still just PS. maybe they get him to spring in a few weeks when godwin and evans are fully back.
Our only hope now is what a healthy Robinson or Toney can bring to the offense.
So, pretty grim
If AT, SB, LW, DJ, Dex, and McKinney stay healthy and Toney and Wandale figure it out by end of year this team could actually make some noise. The odds of that happening are practically slim to none though.
RE: I would trade for Mims if I were the Giants FO
and if, but if, if they believe in the talent. Maybe not a 4th, but any day 3 pick is really probably less valuable than Mims.
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
PJ, there are two big differences that you are ignoring. One, he gets paid a fair amount and we have no cap space. Two, any rookie gets 4 years. Mims has less than 2 years left. Why is Mims any less risky than a day 3 pick next year? So, keeping the pick saves money and gives you more years on the player. And I like Mims but we have to be realistic. He suffers from drops like Slayton.
Is bringing in someone for free like, I think Anakim said, the Bills WR on the PS. The problem is who do you kick off the roster? Golladay and Toney can't go anywhere. Ritchie James and Sills are not going anywhere. We still have Wan'Dale coming back. So do you add a 6th WR to such a shitty unit? It is gonna take a serious injury to one of these 5 to truly make a move imo. And for those that think Sills and James are replaceable, this is not an easy offense. It will take time for any new WR to learn the O and get on the same page as Jones. Oh, and Slayton restructured to stay. I am not sure of his cap situation if we were to release him. And as has been mentioned, the Giants have under $4 mil of cap space right now and they are trying to make due this year to get by.
they can IR golladay. it sounds like daboll said he may not be 'day to day'.
i agree btw that finding a vet somewhere is the best path. supposedly they were in on beasley and he's still just PS. maybe they get him to spring in a few weeks when godwin and evans are fully back.
There needs to be a legit reason to IR. He's playing now so how can we IR him? The NFLPA will fight that.
RE: I would trade for Mims if I were the Giants FO
and if, but if, if they believe in the talent. Maybe not a 4th, but any day 3 pick is really probably less valuable than Mims.
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
exactly right - i also dont have a strong feeling on whether mims is the right guy, but he fits the profile of who they should look at. the saints only got a 5th for chauncey gardner johnson and he is a legitimate starter level player, so the mims types shouldn't cost more than a 6th or 7th. we are basically talking about another team's version of slayton.
Is bringing in someone for free like, I think Anakim said, the Bills WR on the PS. The problem is who do you kick off the roster? Golladay and Toney can't go anywhere. Ritchie James and Sills are not going anywhere. We still have Wan'Dale coming back. So do you add a 6th WR to such a shitty unit? It is gonna take a serious injury to one of these 5 to truly make a move imo. And for those that think Sills and James are replaceable, this is not an easy offense. It will take time for any new WR to learn the O and get on the same page as Jones. Oh, and Slayton restructured to stay. I am not sure of his cap situation if we were to release him. And as has been mentioned, the Giants have under $4 mil of cap space right now and they are trying to make due this year to get by.
they can IR golladay. it sounds like daboll said he may not be 'day to day'.
i agree btw that finding a vet somewhere is the best path. supposedly they were in on beasley and he's still just PS. maybe they get him to spring in a few weeks when godwin and evans are fully back.
There needs to be a legit reason to IR. He's playing now so how can we IR him? The NFLPA will fight that.
he hurt his knee yesterday. here was daboll's comment on him today:
Quote:
Q: Can you go over some of the other injuries like (tackle) Evan Neal and (wide receiver Kenny) Golladay and (safety) Julian (Love) and the list goes on and on it seems.
A: Evan Neal should be okay. Golladay – we’ll see how it goes towards the end of the week. I’d say it doesn’t look promising. Who was the other one?
and if, but if, if they believe in the talent. Maybe not a 4th, but any day 3 pick is really probably less valuable than Mims.
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
exactly right - i also dont have a strong feeling on whether mims is the right guy, but he fits the profile of who they should look at. the saints only got a 5th for chauncey gardner johnson and he is a legitimate starter level player, so the mims types shouldn't cost more than a 6th or 7th. we are basically talking about another team's version of slayton.
The problem with that is the Jets are not letting him go for that. Mims wants out. They are like fuck you. Remember Adams? He wanted out amd the Jets said no until the Seahawks overpaid. The Jets are just gonna keep him the next two years. Nobody is giving up anything of significance for him. If released, I'd be all over him.
RE: RE: RE: RE: The thing that makes the most sense
Is bringing in someone for free like, I think Anakim said, the Bills WR on the PS. The problem is who do you kick off the roster? Golladay and Toney can't go anywhere. Ritchie James and Sills are not going anywhere. We still have Wan'Dale coming back. So do you add a 6th WR to such a shitty unit? It is gonna take a serious injury to one of these 5 to truly make a move imo. And for those that think Sills and James are replaceable, this is not an easy offense. It will take time for any new WR to learn the O and get on the same page as Jones. Oh, and Slayton restructured to stay. I am not sure of his cap situation if we were to release him. And as has been mentioned, the Giants have under $4 mil of cap space right now and they are trying to make due this year to get by.
they can IR golladay. it sounds like daboll said he may not be 'day to day'.
i agree btw that finding a vet somewhere is the best path. supposedly they were in on beasley and he's still just PS. maybe they get him to spring in a few weeks when godwin and evans are fully back.
There needs to be a legit reason to IR. He's playing now so how can we IR him? The NFLPA will fight that.
he hurt his knee yesterday. here was daboll's comment on him today:
Quote:
Q: Can you go over some of the other injuries like (tackle) Evan Neal and (wide receiver Kenny) Golladay and (safety) Julian (Love) and the list goes on and on it seems.
A: Evan Neal should be okay. Golladay – we’ll see how it goes towards the end of the week. I’d say it doesn’t look promising. Who was the other one?
But how hurt? Day to day isn't soemthing you can justify keeping him on IR all year now with the new rules.
do you think Jones has played well, yes/no/not sure; if you're not sure how are you going to evaluate further?
The biggest decision the franchise has to make over the next year is who is going to be our QB next year and beyond.
If you want to argue that Daboll/Schoen can evaluate regardless of who is at receiver, then make that case and i'll accept it.
But if you're not making that case, then how can we really evaluate him?
The coaches know what they have. They see him every day.
If you start trading away draft picks or future cap space for a short-term fix on a team that is going nowhere, then the Giants are never going to get better.
Remember when Gettleman traded for Price? How did that work out?
What if the Giants were 5-3 at the trading deadline and a good WR1 or 2 was available? Do you make that trade?
for a conditional 6th or 7th is not pushing your chips to the center of the table.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
If it is a legit reason, I think you'll see Giants fans doing
if an invisible player gets injured in the middle of a forrest and nobody is around to see it, did he really get injured?
with the new IR-R rules I'd imagine it's a little more lax. if it's already not looking good for this week it seems pretty benign to try to find another roster spot at the position.
but honestly roster spots arent the issue. slayton can get cut tomorrow if they have someone better. they were willing to cut him week 1 if he didnt take the pay cut.
for a conditional 6th or 7th is not pushing your chips to the center of the table.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
I think you are mixing two thing. Hypothetically, I agree but this hypothetical isn't the same as what is. The Jets are not letting him go for cheap and he's not worth paying much for. Like Eric is pointing out, we need to have a long term vision with this team. Going all in on Golladay as our savior did nothing but set us back.
I was on the treadmill earlier & remembered that our starting left tackle has more TD catches than the $18 million dollar man or the dude we drafted in the 1st in '21. Good God.
for a conditional 6th or 7th is not pushing your chips to the center of the table.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
I think you are mixing two thing. Hypothetically, I agree but this hypothetical isn't the same as what is. The Jets are not letting him go for cheap and he's not worth paying much for. Like Eric is pointing out, we need to have a long term vision with this team. Going all in on Golladay as our savior did nothing but set us back.
it's not just mims though, there are 32 teams. if they see a richie james type on the back of someone's roster and they like the player a 7th round pick is insignificant.
a bunch of teams got new GMs in the last 2 years and those new GMs inherited an old GMs players just like slayton. laviska shenault broke off a big TD that got carolina a win last week against NO and he was that exact type of trade.
for a conditional 6th or 7th is not pushing your chips to the center of the table.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
I think you are mixing two thing. Hypothetically, I agree but this hypothetical isn't the same as what is. The Jets are not letting him go for cheap and he's not worth paying much for. Like Eric is pointing out, we need to have a long term vision with this team. Going all in on Golladay as our savior did nothing but set us back.
That's what I mean by diciplined. we are bargain shopping with no pressing need to do anything. If the value is there and you like the guy, cool. but def not over pay.
In this case i would think the signing bonus etc having been paid the yearly is gonna be a million (which is not alot more then min.) and no dead money if cut.
but again, i don't mean this guy, mims, per se....just in general for a guy on a rookie contract.
To erics point, Price was a dud but did play alot (not well), but bredson has contributed a lot so far and has been worth it
40-0 by the Packers for you dolts to see this is NOT a good football team. They shouldn't be adding ANYONE for any reason, unless that person is FREE. We need all the assets they can get. JFC, does anyone listen to Eric, or Sy??
These coaches are maximizing the talent they have (there is some), and coaching around the deficiencies (which are many).
Making chicken salad out of chicken shit only takes you so far. maybe 7,8 wins, which would be great for the culture around here. Guys like Denzel Mims have NO place on this roster. If he can't crack the Jets "wonderful" receiving core, we sure as hell shouldn't want him.
I was on the treadmill earlier & remembered that our starting left tackle has more TD catches than the $18 million dollar man or the dude we drafted in the 1st in '21. Good God.
Yup. But maybe you should stay off the treadmill. It's giving you nightmares.
for a conditional 6th or 7th is not pushing your chips to the center of the table.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
I think you are mixing two thing. Hypothetically, I agree but this hypothetical isn't the same as what is. The Jets are not letting him go for cheap and he's not worth paying much for. Like Eric is pointing out, we need to have a long term vision with this team. Going all in on Golladay as our savior did nothing but set us back.
That's what I mean by diciplined. we are bargain shopping with no pressing need to do anything. If the value is there and you like the guy, cool. but def not over pay.
In this case i would think the signing bonus etc having been paid the yearly is gonna be a million (which is not alot more then min.) and no dead money if cut.
but again, i don't mean this guy, mims, per se....just in general for a guy on a rookie contract.
To erics point, Price was a dud but did play alot (not well), but bredson has contributed a lot so far and has been worth it
and on the other side of the price trade BJ Hill was the exact type of find any team should be looking for. A young player with upside buried on a depth chart.
rebuilding team, because he could possibly contribute year 3-4 years down the road.
I agree, this team should not be trading draft capital for a rental just to get through 2022 -- but if theres a guy who is young and can be a part of the process, why not? Mims is the same age as most of the 'young core' we see on this team that will hopefully be playing in 2023 and beyond.
With that said, I probably wouldnt do it for Mims specifically. But a guy in that age group with high upside? Its worth looking at at minimum.
Unless it’s a player for player swap that we can actually afford
And the player we are trading more than likely won’t be here next year anyways and no to the trade saquon group.
This year is all about cutting losses (as much as possible) so we can build without killing ourselves in the future. We were maybe supposed to win 3-4 games all year so this is like the whipped cream on top. Just enjoy the fact it looks like we finally have leadership that knows how to run a professional team.
40-0 by the Packers for you dolts to see this is NOT a good football team. They shouldn't be adding ANYONE for any reason, unless that person is FREE. We need all the assets they can get. JFC, does anyone listen to Eric, or Sy??
These coaches are maximizing the talent they have (there is some), and coaching around the deficiencies (which are many).
Making chicken salad out of chicken shit only takes you so far. maybe 7,8 wins, which would be great for the culture around here. Guys like Denzel Mims have NO place on this roster. If he can't crack the Jets "wonderful" receiving core, we sure as hell shouldn't want him.
Let me get this straight. If we could sell a third day pick for a WR who could help us now, you wouldn't do it?
Let me re-write this, and read it slowly - a THIRD day pick, where the hit rate is probably 12% or <.
first draft, without getting rid of Pettit and the rest of the people he fired, his third day picks were:
TE Daniel Bellinger - starting
S Dane Belton - receiving starting snaps
LB Micah McFadden - receiving starting snaps
DL D.J. Davidson - already an important rotational player
OG Marcus McKethan - was 2nd team RG before hurt
LB Darrian Beavers - starter before hurt
but it's possibly doable. they identified james in sf so maybe theres a scheme fit.
Meyers is still out with a knee but could be back soon.
So, if he gets back, along with Agholor and Parker, maybe Bourne could be expendable...
thornton probably coming off IR at some point too. their blurb indicated bourne got benched earlier in the year for being late to a meeting. he did have a really solid year last year.
first draft, without getting rid of Pettit and the rest of the people he fired, his third day picks were:
TE Daniel Bellinger - starting
S Dane Belton - receiving starting snaps
LB Micah McFadden - receiving starting snaps
DL D.J. Davidson - already an important rotational player
OG Marcus McKethan - was 2nd team RG before hurt
LB Darrian Beavers - starter before hurt
Yeah, those 3rd day picks are valuable.
Jesus Christ.
they currently project to have 3 sevenths and 1 sixth for a total of 9 picks. i would be willing to bet at least 1 of those 4 selections doesn't make the opening 53 while a UDFA does because that's what the odds are. 3 out of 4 making it would actually be a better outcome than the odds.
nobody values draft capital more than i do but if there's a young player they like who can see reps right now you do it. after the top 100-150 picks the next 400 (UDFAs included) are pretty much a crap shoot. this past draft all their picks were in the top 182 and it was a deeper than usual draft because of the extra eligibility from covid. and even with all that and lemiuex's injury mckethan was probably practice squad bound if he didnt get hurt.
How about 2 players who are underutilized/need a change of scenery...
Allen Robinson (wasting away on the Rams, as evidenced tonight) for Darius Slayton and a 6th rounder? No idea the contractual implications, but the Rams clearly miss the top-end speed capabilities of guys like Desean Jackson and Tavon Austin. Robinson could be a trusted weapon in our offense. Just throwing it out there for discussion. Fire away.
RE: How about 2 players who are underutilized/need a change of scenery...
Allen Robinson (wasting away on the Rams, as evidenced tonight) for Darius Slayton and a 6th rounder? No idea the contractual implications, but the Rams clearly miss the top-end speed capabilities of guys like Desean Jackson and Tavon Austin. Robinson could be a trusted weapon in our offense. Just throwing it out there for discussion. Fire away.
way too much money to take on next year. robinson's contract could look worse than golladays if he doesnt turn things around soon.
and if, but if, if they believe in the talent. Maybe not a 4th, but any day 3 pick is really probably less valuable than Mims.
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
Quote:
Why should the Giants - who are in rebuilding mode - be getting rid of draft picks?
Holy crap guys... think.
they gave up comp picks to sign tyrod and glowinski, though they should still net 2 extra day 3 picks from comp picks next year.
i wouldn't give up anything beyond a late round pick but if there's a player they like there's not much harm in giving up a 6th or a 7th for a player who could play now. the odds of 6ths/7ths making 53 man rosters is only barely better than UDFA's.
to be clear id only be looking at a young player still on a rookie deal (aka a reverse BJ Hill). had the bengals let him walk for that same contract they gave him but via FA they would have actually recouped a higher comp pick than the pick they gave up for him in the first place.
You guys are still living in denial.
This team has just started the rebuild. Most of the offense will likely be replaced in the offseason. We don't have 11 picks like we did last year.
And our 6th round draft pick from this year, would be starting right now if he did blow out his knee.
Every pick matters.
Good news is Schoen disagrees with you guys wanting to get rid of picks. Thank God.
No to trading picks, especially for malcontents
Quote:
I like Mims and think he needs a change of scenery. But nobidy in their right mind is giving up a 4th for him.
I don't see it.
Seems like a disinterested player.
I disagree. Not sure where you got that from. Disinterested players aren't bad asses as run blockers.
I'm under no illusions about the quality of the team this year but the hole at WR is so big. If we could get someone young who can help and contribute in the future, I'm totally fine giving up a late pick.
Our receivers stink. Go with more tight ends. Run the ball. Play action pass to running backs and tight ends. Play to our strength.
Run blocking. Barkley. Jones running. Tight ends blocking and receiving. Power football
Defenses are now built for basketball on turf. We need to go old school with power football on offense. Run at the 230 pound middle linebackers. Play action pass. Eat up the clock. Grind the light weight defenses down.
Keep our defense fresh and aggressive.
This makes best use of the players we have.
+1.
You guys are still living in denial.
This team has just started the rebuild. Most of the offense will likely be replaced in the offseason. We don't have 11 picks like we did last year.
And our 6th round draft pick from this year, would be starting right now if he did blow out his knee.
Every pick matters.
Good news is Schoen disagrees with you guys wanting to get rid of picks. Thank God.
schoen cancelled out a 5th round pick for glowinski and a 6th round pick for tyrod so he is not nearly as opposed to paying for bandaids as you seem to think. there were a few non-comp pick eligible OL he could have signed other than glowinski at the same price and not cost himself that pick. and for whatever virtues taylor has he's incredibly injury prone as we saw yesterday.
why would you ever want to not try to trade for good young players if another team is fortunate enough to have enough depth to shop them? and that does happen from time to time - it did with BJ Hill last year and a couple years before that Wyatt Teller.
https://overthecap.com/2022-nfl-season-preview-building-teams-via-the-draft - ( New Window )
So, pretty grim
You are just mesmerized by all of those pixels in Antonio brown’s Dubai photo
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
He and Slayton can work vertically with Toney/Robinson in the slot. Not great but at least that group would have some potential to get separation.
they can IR golladay. it sounds like daboll said he may not be 'day to day'.
i agree btw that finding a vet somewhere is the best path. supposedly they were in on beasley and he's still just PS. maybe they get him to spring in a few weeks when godwin and evans are fully back.
So, pretty grim
If AT, SB, LW, DJ, Dex, and McKinney stay healthy and Toney and Wandale figure it out by end of year this team could actually make some noise. The odds of that happening are practically slim to none though.
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
PJ, there are two big differences that you are ignoring. One, he gets paid a fair amount and we have no cap space. Two, any rookie gets 4 years. Mims has less than 2 years left. Why is Mims any less risky than a day 3 pick next year? So, keeping the pick saves money and gives you more years on the player. And I like Mims but we have to be realistic. He suffers from drops like Slayton.
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Is bringing in someone for free like, I think Anakim said, the Bills WR on the PS. The problem is who do you kick off the roster? Golladay and Toney can't go anywhere. Ritchie James and Sills are not going anywhere. We still have Wan'Dale coming back. So do you add a 6th WR to such a shitty unit? It is gonna take a serious injury to one of these 5 to truly make a move imo. And for those that think Sills and James are replaceable, this is not an easy offense. It will take time for any new WR to learn the O and get on the same page as Jones. Oh, and Slayton restructured to stay. I am not sure of his cap situation if we were to release him. And as has been mentioned, the Giants have under $4 mil of cap space right now and they are trying to make due this year to get by.
they can IR golladay. it sounds like daboll said he may not be 'day to day'.
i agree btw that finding a vet somewhere is the best path. supposedly they were in on beasley and he's still just PS. maybe they get him to spring in a few weeks when godwin and evans are fully back.
There needs to be a legit reason to IR. He's playing now so how can we IR him? The NFLPA will fight that.
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
exactly right - i also dont have a strong feeling on whether mims is the right guy, but he fits the profile of who they should look at. the saints only got a 5th for chauncey gardner johnson and he is a legitimate starter level player, so the mims types shouldn't cost more than a 6th or 7th. we are basically talking about another team's version of slayton.
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In comment 15844754 robbieballs2003 said:
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Is bringing in someone for free like, I think Anakim said, the Bills WR on the PS. The problem is who do you kick off the roster? Golladay and Toney can't go anywhere. Ritchie James and Sills are not going anywhere. We still have Wan'Dale coming back. So do you add a 6th WR to such a shitty unit? It is gonna take a serious injury to one of these 5 to truly make a move imo. And for those that think Sills and James are replaceable, this is not an easy offense. It will take time for any new WR to learn the O and get on the same page as Jones. Oh, and Slayton restructured to stay. I am not sure of his cap situation if we were to release him. And as has been mentioned, the Giants have under $4 mil of cap space right now and they are trying to make due this year to get by.
they can IR golladay. it sounds like daboll said he may not be 'day to day'.
i agree btw that finding a vet somewhere is the best path. supposedly they were in on beasley and he's still just PS. maybe they get him to spring in a few weeks when godwin and evans are fully back.
There needs to be a legit reason to IR. He's playing now so how can we IR him? The NFLPA will fight that.
he hurt his knee yesterday. here was daboll's comment on him today:
A: Evan Neal should be okay. Golladay – we’ll see how it goes towards the end of the week. I’d say it doesn’t look promising. Who was the other one?
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and if, but if, if they believe in the talent. Maybe not a 4th, but any day 3 pick is really probably less valuable than Mims.
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
exactly right - i also dont have a strong feeling on whether mims is the right guy, but he fits the profile of who they should look at. the saints only got a 5th for chauncey gardner johnson and he is a legitimate starter level player, so the mims types shouldn't cost more than a 6th or 7th. we are basically talking about another team's version of slayton.
The problem with that is the Jets are not letting him go for that. Mims wants out. They are like fuck you. Remember Adams? He wanted out amd the Jets said no until the Seahawks overpaid. The Jets are just gonna keep him the next two years. Nobody is giving up anything of significance for him. If released, I'd be all over him.
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In comment 15844786 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 15844754 robbieballs2003 said:
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Is bringing in someone for free like, I think Anakim said, the Bills WR on the PS. The problem is who do you kick off the roster? Golladay and Toney can't go anywhere. Ritchie James and Sills are not going anywhere. We still have Wan'Dale coming back. So do you add a 6th WR to such a shitty unit? It is gonna take a serious injury to one of these 5 to truly make a move imo. And for those that think Sills and James are replaceable, this is not an easy offense. It will take time for any new WR to learn the O and get on the same page as Jones. Oh, and Slayton restructured to stay. I am not sure of his cap situation if we were to release him. And as has been mentioned, the Giants have under $4 mil of cap space right now and they are trying to make due this year to get by.
they can IR golladay. it sounds like daboll said he may not be 'day to day'.
i agree btw that finding a vet somewhere is the best path. supposedly they were in on beasley and he's still just PS. maybe they get him to spring in a few weeks when godwin and evans are fully back.
There needs to be a legit reason to IR. He's playing now so how can we IR him? The NFLPA will fight that.
he hurt his knee yesterday. here was daboll's comment on him today:
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Q: Can you go over some of the other injuries like (tackle) Evan Neal and (wide receiver Kenny) Golladay and (safety) Julian (Love) and the list goes on and on it seems.
A: Evan Neal should be okay. Golladay – we’ll see how it goes towards the end of the week. I’d say it doesn’t look promising. Who was the other one?
But how hurt? Day to day isn't soemthing you can justify keeping him on IR all year now with the new rules.
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do you think Jones has played well, yes/no/not sure; if you're not sure how are you going to evaluate further?
The biggest decision the franchise has to make over the next year is who is going to be our QB next year and beyond.
If you want to argue that Daboll/Schoen can evaluate regardless of who is at receiver, then make that case and i'll accept it.
But if you're not making that case, then how can we really evaluate him?
The coaches know what they have. They see him every day.
If you start trading away draft picks or future cap space for a short-term fix on a team that is going nowhere, then the Giants are never going to get better.
Remember when Gettleman traded for Price? How did that work out?
What if the Giants were 5-3 at the trading deadline and a good WR1 or 2 was available? Do you make that trade?
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
And, with all due respect to Wink, because we have played against 3 teams that are in the bottom 4 of the NFL in terms of Offense (yards/per game)...
if an invisible player gets injured in the middle of a forrest and nobody is around to see it, did he really get injured?
with the new IR-R rules I'd imagine it's a little more lax. if it's already not looking good for this week it seems pretty benign to try to find another roster spot at the position.
but honestly roster spots arent the issue. slayton can get cut tomorrow if they have someone better. they were willing to cut him week 1 if he didnt take the pay cut.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
I think you are mixing two thing. Hypothetically, I agree but this hypothetical isn't the same as what is. The Jets are not letting him go for cheap and he's not worth paying much for. Like Eric is pointing out, we need to have a long term vision with this team. Going all in on Golladay as our savior did nothing but set us back.
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for a conditional 6th or 7th is not pushing your chips to the center of the table.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
I think you are mixing two thing. Hypothetically, I agree but this hypothetical isn't the same as what is. The Jets are not letting him go for cheap and he's not worth paying much for. Like Eric is pointing out, we need to have a long term vision with this team. Going all in on Golladay as our savior did nothing but set us back.
it's not just mims though, there are 32 teams. if they see a richie james type on the back of someone's roster and they like the player a 7th round pick is insignificant.
a bunch of teams got new GMs in the last 2 years and those new GMs inherited an old GMs players just like slayton. laviska shenault broke off a big TD that got carolina a win last week against NO and he was that exact type of trade.
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for a conditional 6th or 7th is not pushing your chips to the center of the table.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
I think you are mixing two thing. Hypothetically, I agree but this hypothetical isn't the same as what is. The Jets are not letting him go for cheap and he's not worth paying much for. Like Eric is pointing out, we need to have a long term vision with this team. Going all in on Golladay as our savior did nothing but set us back.
That's what I mean by diciplined. we are bargain shopping with no pressing need to do anything. If the value is there and you like the guy, cool. but def not over pay.
In this case i would think the signing bonus etc having been paid the yearly is gonna be a million (which is not alot more then min.) and no dead money if cut.
but again, i don't mean this guy, mims, per se....just in general for a guy on a rookie contract.
To erics point, Price was a dud but did play alot (not well), but bredson has contributed a lot so far and has been worth it
These coaches are maximizing the talent they have (there is some), and coaching around the deficiencies (which are many).
Making chicken salad out of chicken shit only takes you so far. maybe 7,8 wins, which would be great for the culture around here. Guys like Denzel Mims have NO place on this roster. If he can't crack the Jets "wonderful" receiving core, we sure as hell shouldn't want him.
Yup. But maybe you should stay off the treadmill. It's giving you nightmares.
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In comment 15844812 dancing blue bear said:
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for a conditional 6th or 7th is not pushing your chips to the center of the table.
it could be considered a value play if you are diciplined about it.
I don't know much about mims, or his personality or ability, so i am only speaking in hypothetical. But if they liked a guy guy coming out and you can get him for a cpl years on the cheap it is worth investigating.
I think you are mixing two thing. Hypothetically, I agree but this hypothetical isn't the same as what is. The Jets are not letting him go for cheap and he's not worth paying much for. Like Eric is pointing out, we need to have a long term vision with this team. Going all in on Golladay as our savior did nothing but set us back.
That's what I mean by diciplined. we are bargain shopping with no pressing need to do anything. If the value is there and you like the guy, cool. but def not over pay.
In this case i would think the signing bonus etc having been paid the yearly is gonna be a million (which is not alot more then min.) and no dead money if cut.
but again, i don't mean this guy, mims, per se....just in general for a guy on a rookie contract.
To erics point, Price was a dud but did play alot (not well), but bredson has contributed a lot so far and has been worth it
and on the other side of the price trade BJ Hill was the exact type of find any team should be looking for. A young player with upside buried on a depth chart.
Perhaps the fastest player in the NFL
He looked good in preseason.
If nothing else he could stretch the field and he is good on special teams.
The Eagles have a plethora of wide receivers so Devon was signed to their practice squad
I agree, this team should not be trading draft capital for a rental just to get through 2022 -- but if theres a guy who is young and can be a part of the process, why not? Mims is the same age as most of the 'young core' we see on this team that will hopefully be playing in 2023 and beyond.
With that said, I probably wouldnt do it for Mims specifically. But a guy in that age group with high upside? Its worth looking at at minimum.
This year is all about cutting losses (as much as possible) so we can build without killing ourselves in the future. We were maybe supposed to win 3-4 games all year so this is like the whipped cream on top. Just enjoy the fact it looks like we finally have leadership that knows how to run a professional team.
These coaches are maximizing the talent they have (there is some), and coaching around the deficiencies (which are many).
Making chicken salad out of chicken shit only takes you so far. maybe 7,8 wins, which would be great for the culture around here. Guys like Denzel Mims have NO place on this roster. If he can't crack the Jets "wonderful" receiving core, we sure as hell shouldn't want him.
Let me get this straight. If we could sell a third day pick for a WR who could help us now, you wouldn't do it?
Let me re-write this, and read it slowly - a THIRD day pick, where the hit rate is probably 12% or <.
JFC, indeed.
Contract remaining: Three years, $2.98 million
WR DARIUS SLAYTON (NEW YORK GIANTS) → INDIANAPOLIS COLTS FOR 2023 SIXTH-ROUND PICK
Contract remaining: One year, $536,111
WR KENDRICK BOURNE (NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS) → CHICAGO BEARS FOR 2023 FIFTH-ROUND PICK
Contract remaining: Two years, $8.94 million
WR DENZEL MIMS (NEW YORK JETS) → CAROLINA PANTHERS FOR 2023 SIXTH-ROUND PICK, 2024 SIXTH-ROUND PICK
Contract remaining: Two years, $1.96 million
Early-season trade candidates and landing spots: Denzel Mims, Myles Gaskin, Riley Reiff and more - ( New Window )
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WR TERRACE MARSHALL JR. (CAROLINA PANTHERS) → GREEN BAY PACKERS FOR 2024 FIFTH-ROUND PICK
Contract remaining: Three years, $2.98 million
WR DARIUS SLAYTON (NEW YORK GIANTS) → INDIANAPOLIS COLTS FOR 2023 SIXTH-ROUND PICK
Contract remaining: One year, $536,111
WR KENDRICK BOURNE (NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS) → CHICAGO BEARS FOR 2023 FIFTH-ROUND PICK
Contract remaining: Two years, $8.94 million
WR DENZEL MIMS (NEW YORK JETS) → CAROLINA PANTHERS FOR 2023 SIXTH-ROUND PICK, 2024 SIXTH-ROUND PICK
Contract remaining: Two years, $1.96 million
Early-season trade candidates and landing spots: Denzel Mims, Myles Gaskin, Riley Reiff and more - ( New Window )
Good link. I'd take a chance with any of those three.
I've always been fond of Bourne and think he had a sneaky good season in New England last year.
TE Daniel Bellinger - starting
S Dane Belton - receiving starting snaps
LB Micah McFadden - receiving starting snaps
DL D.J. Davidson - already an important rotational player
OG Marcus McKethan - was 2nd team RG before hurt
LB Darrian Beavers - starter before hurt
Yeah, those 3rd day picks are valuable.
Jesus Christ.
Meyers is still out with a knee but could be back soon.
So, if he gets back, along with Agholor and Parker, maybe Bourne could be expendable...
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but it's possibly doable. they identified james in sf so maybe theres a scheme fit.
Meyers is still out with a knee but could be back soon.
So, if he gets back, along with Agholor and Parker, maybe Bourne could be expendable...
thornton probably coming off IR at some point too. their blurb indicated bourne got benched earlier in the year for being late to a meeting. he did have a really solid year last year.
TE Daniel Bellinger - starting
S Dane Belton - receiving starting snaps
LB Micah McFadden - receiving starting snaps
DL D.J. Davidson - already an important rotational player
OG Marcus McKethan - was 2nd team RG before hurt
LB Darrian Beavers - starter before hurt
Yeah, those 3rd day picks are valuable.
Jesus Christ.
they currently project to have 3 sevenths and 1 sixth for a total of 9 picks. i would be willing to bet at least 1 of those 4 selections doesn't make the opening 53 while a UDFA does because that's what the odds are. 3 out of 4 making it would actually be a better outcome than the odds.
nobody values draft capital more than i do but if there's a young player they like who can see reps right now you do it. after the top 100-150 picks the next 400 (UDFAs included) are pretty much a crap shoot. this past draft all their picks were in the top 182 and it was a deeper than usual draft because of the extra eligibility from covid. and even with all that and lemiuex's injury mckethan was probably practice squad bound if he didnt get hurt.
way too much money to take on next year. robinson's contract could look worse than golladays if he doesnt turn things around soon.
He and Slayton can work vertically with Toney/Robinson in the slot. Not great but at least that group would have some potential to get separation.
Can Slayton or Fuller actually catch the football tho??
Giants have a bunch of draft pick huggers who think they're getting massive contribution from day 3 picks. Not just the Giants but historically those picks are not very successful - very low rate of success.
Mims is 24 years old, but people here clutch their 5th and 6th round picks like an old lady on the subway clutching her purse. and then they hope the Giants use that pick on a player who has the talent of Mims (drafted in the 2nd round, but hasn't put it together yet).
If you don't believe in the talent then obviously no price is worth it.
+1