I think King is wrong & that's not a shot @ Donald; he's an all timer, but LT...he is in another class IMO. He changed the game. Donald didn't. Link - ( New Window )
I love Donald, but I'd take prime JJ Watt over him. LT is quite a leap
Shame about Watt getting injury prone. Unbelievable production from 2012-2015. Donald has been so consistent but to me I agree Watt was more impactful at his peak.
When the average OL was 255 pounds, he would be viewed as the greatest player of all time.
I'm not sure I get this? Another transport in the time machine? LOL
If he played in the era when everyone was 255 lbs, Donald would still be great because everything would still be relative including the training/technique/etc. But that wouldn't automatically make him the best.
Yeah one could just as easily make the argument that prior to so much expansion the level of competition that a player had to regularly face was much stiffer because of so many fewer teams diluting the talent pool.
Just judge each player in their own time.
I have a friend who was drafted by the Saints. His was 6'4" and 255/260 lbs. He left after 1 year as he said he was too small. His college roommate was an All Pro LT for several seasons. I asked what weight he played at and he said 325/330 and this was late 70s thru the 80s.
So the boys back then were not quite as small as people think. Not sure they were all as strong as today, but they were still big.
RE: I don't think he's even better than Reggie White
Is a better comparison to LT than Donald. Parsons is the 1st player I've watched that looks anything like LT on a football field...maybe Derreck Thomas.
Is a better comparison to LT than Donald. Parsons is the 1st player I've watched that looks anything like LT on a football field...maybe Derreck Thomas.
D Thomas was a lesser LT. Parsons is not D Thomas, yet. So far he is outstanding....
has a number of lists on Pro Football Journal of the best NFL players at various positions (for the front seven this goes from the 1950s onward after the advent of the 4-3). Reggie White for example is the top 4-3 DE in his listing (noses out Deacon Jones for a longer prime); Strahan is No.5 on his list. Bruce Smith is the top 3-4 DE. Bob Lilly is the top 4-3 DT (Aaron Donald is No. 8 at this writing, some four years ago). LT is the top 3-4 rushbacker (which also explains where I get the term). He also places a distinction between 4-3 OLBs and 3-4 OLBs, which seems to fall along the lines of coverage responsibilities (and why Jack Ham and LT aren't on the same list). The Top 4-3 Ends In NFL History - ( New Window )
Defensive players from different era and different positions
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
But Donald is approaching LT territory - if not already there.
Thats it...I'm never listening to another word you say Sy
When u posting your Bears Giants game review????
Lmaoooooo
We all appreciate your sharing the wisdom man!!!
Thanks so much
Defensive players from different era and different positions
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Not sure he is better than Ray Lewis.
Yet, we are discussing a totally great player in Aaron Donald, and I mean no disrespect to him. He most likely is the best defensive player in the NFL the last decade. A few have had better single years - Watt, Bosa for example, but he is consistently the top 1, 2, 3 defender every year.
has a number of lists on Pro Football Journal of the best NFL players at various positions (for the front seven this goes from the 1950s onward after the advent of the 4-3). Reggie White for example is the top 4-3 DE in his listing (noses out Deacon Jones for a longer prime); Strahan is No.5 on his list. Bruce Smith is the top 3-4 DE. Bob Lilly is the top 4-3 DT (Aaron Donald is No. 8 at this writing, some four years ago). LT is the top 3-4 rushbacker (which also explains where I get the term). He also places a distinction between 4-3 OLBs and 3-4 OLBs, which seems to fall along the lines of coverage responsibilities (and why Jack Ham and LT aren't on the same list). The Top 4-3 Ends In NFL History - ( New Window )
Very cool stuff thanks
If I understand correctly Joe Green would be on the other list...I have him ranked at or near the top
The fun part is that there can be a discussion here. What Donald is doing from inside (much less space to work with) simply has never been done. That is why I bring him into the LT tier. Is he right there with him right now? Gun to my head says no - we need to see him do this another year or two. But he is getting double/triple teamed as much as anyone ever has. He impacts the running game as well as LT did. Production vs pass is in the same boat. Teams are trying to create pressure the way Donald does. He is changing the way some defenses are trying to rush the passer and that was always LT's stamp.
Aaron Donald is incredible no doubt about it and is one of the top defensive players of all time but LT changed the way the game is played. There’s a reason left tackles are viewed the way they are today and why they get drafted so highly. That in large part started with LT. The league has not changed the drafting of interior o lineman due to Donald so purely on impact to the game LT is no comparison to Donald.
offenses had to change in response to LT, you ought to consider the following:
Yes, offenses changed the way they countered LT. The change was that in previous eras you could defend a rushing LB with a FB or TE. But LT could not be defended by those guys so you had to dedicate a lineman to cope with LT. But please consider that Donald is ALREADY having to contend with the biggest guys on the field. All they can do now is double team him, which they are doing. If there was something else they could change in response to him, they would do it.
The fun part is that there can be a discussion here. What Donald is doing from inside (much less space to work with) simply has never been done. That is why I bring him into the LT tier. Is he right there with him right now? Gun to my head says no - we need to see him do this another year or two. But he is getting double/triple teamed as much as anyone ever has. He impacts the running game as well as LT did. Production vs pass is in the same boat. Teams are trying to create pressure the way Donald does. He is changing the way some defenses are trying to rush the passer and that was always LT's stamp.
I just watched Donald get triple teamed
He still got a hand on the running back
I don't think I fear playing them. Opponents feared LT. I love the story of the QB taking a time out because he couldn't figure out where LT was on the field--he had actually subbed out.
Donald is great and does create trouble for offenses. I don't think he is feared like LT was.
much more than a rusher, his interceptions are all highlight reel material.
His fumble recovery against the 49ers game changing and clutch just like Donald's in the SB,
LT could almost play any position. Imagine him at TE.
Donald no
who at one time had a relevant opinion feel the need to say something outrageous to see their names once again "in lights".
it's like almost any time Peter Gammons offers an opinion on anything the past decade.
It's not outrageous. Donald is fucking phenomenal. I think LT is greater. But eventually I think Donald will be remembered as #2 when he retires. It's an incredible weapon to have that much pressure from one guy in the middle. If the Giants had him 07 to 11 we would have won one or two more Super Bowls.
Look, great player. He is not even the best DT/DL of all time.
I'll preface this by saying I'm 46 yo. I saw LT and all the players inbetween. Reggie White remains the best DT of all time, IMO. That said, Donald is really close. If someone said he was the best I wouldn't mock that opinion.
But Donald is approaching LT territory - if not already there.
I'm not mad at you, Sy. I think Donald is always going to be somewhat unappreciated here for his complete and consistent dominance during his career.
I am a true blue Giants' fan, but also a fan of football, as I know you are. Since he's been drafted, Donald is the freakiest defensive player I've seen in the NFL. He's certainly in the conversation in the smallest group of players of best all-time. A Hall of Gamer's Hall of Fame player.
I definitely have him over Ray Lewis.
I agree with the other poster that Parsons is the closest thing I've seen to this level of defensive dominance outside of Donald, White, LT, going back to the time I started watching football in the early-mid 80s.
RE: For Some reason I am having a hard time comparing
Defensive players from different era and different positions
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Aaron Donald has been the DPOY 3 times in 8 seasons. He was DROY in year one and 1st team All-Pro every single season since.
When it comes to rings... it's a team sport. Nobody says Lott is a better player than Donald bc he has double the rings.
You can kind of try that shit with QBs bc they have the most impact on the outcome of any game. But not with this.
RE: RE: For Some reason I am having a hard time comparing
Defensive players from different era and different positions
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Aaron Donald has been the DPOY 3 times in 8 seasons. He was DROY in year one and 1st team All-Pro every single season since.
When it comes to rings... it's a team sport. Nobody says Lott is a better player than Donald bc he has double the rings.
You can kind of try that shit with QBs bc they have the most impact on the outcome of any game. But not with this.
I meant nobody says Lott was a better player than LT bc he has double the rings.
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
He actually kind of did. He was considered too small to be a true DT in the NFL. Too short, not heavy enough. Teams, including the Giants, passed on him bc he didn't meet the physical profile.
His blend of strength and quickness from a pure DT position, dominating much larger men, has never been done before from the DT position this consistently. He's an unblockable force. White was strong and quick as well, but he was also a prototype DT. Donald is/was far from that. He broke the mold.
RE: RE: For Some reason I am having a hard time comparing
Defensive players from different era and different positions
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Aaron Donald has been the DPOY 3 times in 8 seasons. He was DROY in year one and 1st team All-Pro every single season since.
When it comes to rings... it's a team sport. Nobody says Lott is a better player than Donald bc he has double the rings.
You can kind of try that shit with QBs bc they have the most impact on the outcome of any game. But not with this.
Ever since that moment, I lost all respect for him. This was even before Beasley’s dumb off field stuff, him being voted All Pro legitimately angered me.
He knows as much as the average fan. He’s a fucking nothing. Who cares what he thinks?
But at the same time, I’ve got two points to make
- Donald is really really good. He’s going to end up Alan Page level which makes him worthy of GOAT defender talk
- LT was amazing and my vote for GOAT, but he’s overrated when people say he’s “unanimous defensive GOAT”. Like I said, he’s my GOAT. But it’s embarrassing sometimes when people say it’s not a contest.
or comparing others to him, is they seem to only consider his pass russhing. They are ignoring everything else he did. He blew up the run to his side and chased down RBs down the line to anywhere on the opposite side of the field. He could cover a RB, TE, or WR1 in single man coverage. He created turnovers like nobody else. He is not given enough credit for his football IQ. He diagnosed plays, schemes, etc. He knew where he was supposed to be and where everyone else on the D was supposed to be. He wasn't just a pass rusher, like so many OLBs are today.
- Donald is really really good. He’s going to end up Alan Page level which makes him worthy of GOAT defender talk
- LT was amazing and my vote for GOAT, but he’s overrated when people say he’s “unanimous defensive GOAT”. Like I said, he’s my GOAT. But it’s embarrassing sometimes when people say it’s not a contest.
Agree with point one.
LT is not overrated. And it truly is not a contest. Remember he was also All Pro at ILB/MLB when Harry was out for a year with injury.
Simply put, if you could pick one defender with which to start your team of any NFL player who would that be...?
And now that I mentioned Harry, I might consider taking Harry over Aaron Donald.
RE: One mistake many make now when talking about LT
or comparing others to him, is they seem to only consider his pass russhing. They are ignoring everything else he did. He blew up the run to his side and chased down RBs down the line to anywhere on the opposite side of the field. He could cover a RB, TE, or WR1 in single man coverage. He created turnovers like nobody else. He is not given enough credit for his football IQ. He diagnosed plays, schemes, etc. He knew where he was supposed to be and where everyone else on the D was supposed to be. He wasn't just a pass rusher, like so many OLBs are today.
Great points and I’ll add he also invented the strip sack. It’s become a staple play by defenders now but LT was the first to not only want the sack but come down swinging his arm to knock the ball loose in the process.
I liken it to Ron Guidry in the 70’s going after the single game strikeout record. Every time he got two strikes the fans started clapping and cheering for the 3rd. Now it’s part of baseball everywhere but it had to start somewhere, and that started with Guidry’s game against the Angels in old Yankee Stadium. Same with the strip sack, it started with LT.
RE: RE: Lawrence Taylor re-defined the LBer position
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
He actually kind of did. He was considered too small to be a true DT in the NFL. Too short, not heavy enough. Teams, including the Giants, passed on him bc he didn't meet the physical profile.
His blend of strength and quickness from a pure DT position, dominating much larger men, has never been done before from the DT position this consistently. He's an unblockable force. White was strong and quick as well, but he was also a prototype DT. Donald is/was far from that. He broke the mold.
If you are referring to Reggie White, didn't he play DE?
get foggy and contrived. While there are many players that are in this conversation, there is only one clear and obvious standout and that is LT. Stop!
A few years ago SI did an all time Fantasy Football draft.
Where 12 ex players and Football experts could draft anyone from any era to make a team.
LT was the FIRST GUY SELECTED overall.
Mic dropped
as an LB. Period. I scanned the thread and saw someone list Ray Lewis after LT. The NFL didn't begin in 2000. I'm not sure Ray Lewis isn't a top 10 MLB on my list let alone the 3rd best LB of all time which he is definitely not. I get that a lot of you are a lot younger than me and haven't seen Willie Lanier or Harry Carson in his prime or Butkus or Nitschke. Gil Brandt has Ray Lewis 12 on his list of best LBs all positions of all time behind both Butkus (3) and Nitschke (11). You know who #1 on the list is.
He is not Reggie White not even close. Peter King is way off base here if the OP is on point. I don't and won't read Peter King he's an NFL propagandist. This "opinion" is another example.
"Don't worry where I am. I'll tell you when I get there."
Who said it? Lawrence Taylor, or the Angel of Death?
The thing that hits you when watching retrospectives about LT (or other old-timers mentioned above), is how their presence on or off the field didn't "impact the game" so much as it totally f*cked inside the heads of the quarterbacks.
The famous story about the QB calling a timeout bc he couldn't locate LT on the field, only to discover that LT was on the sideline taking a breather- could in theory apply to a number of players from the 70s and 80s as mentioned above.
NOBODY would tell that story about Aaron Donald.
INTIMIDATION. above performance and ability, is what sets LT (and his class apart). Retired lineman, years later, still talking about sleepless nights. You just wouldn't confuse Aaron Donald for that guy.
There will always be a guy who runs a faster 40, benches more weight, etc. But who are you drafting first- Aaron Donald? Or the EDGE who literally, according to eye-witnesses, makes QBs forget the snap count just by making eye-contact.
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
He actually kind of did. He was considered too small to be a true DT in the NFL. Too short, not heavy enough. Teams, including the Giants, passed on him bc he didn't meet the physical profile.
His blend of strength and quickness from a pure DT position, dominating much larger men, has never been done before from the DT position this consistently. He's an unblockable force. White was strong and quick as well, but he was also a prototype DT. Donald is/was far from that. He broke the mold.
If you are referring to Reggie White, didn't he play DE?
White played defensive line. He played 5-tech, 3-tech, shit, sometimes NT. He was a 3-4 DE just like Donald is a 3-4 DE, they both lined up all over the place, but in the truest sense, they are both DT's.
I understand that if you go to pro football reference you'll see White as a DE and Donald as a DT. But Donald is used similarly to White.
I meant nobody says Lott was a better player than LT bc he has double the rings.
I would never make that case, but Lott has a spot at the table as one of the greatest defensive players ever excluding LT.
He was a great corner - 2X all pro - until he switched back to his natural position of safety (where he played at USC) and was a 6X all-pro there. Just an unbelievable combination of ball hawk, tackler, leader, and intimidator.
Best two safety I have ever seen...although I will listen to anyone who argues Ed Reed. I think Reed was the best defensive player of his era and better than his teammate Ray Lewis.
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
He actually kind of did. He was considered too small to be a true DT in the NFL. Too short, not heavy enough. Teams, including the Giants, passed on him bc he didn't meet the physical profile.
His blend of strength and quickness from a pure DT position, dominating much larger men, has never been done before from the DT position this consistently. He's an unblockable force. White was strong and quick as well, but he was also a prototype DT. Donald is/was far from that. He broke the mold.
If you are referring to Reggie White, didn't he play DE?
White played defensive line. He played 5-tech, 3-tech, shit, sometimes NT. He was a 3-4 DE just like Donald is a 3-4 DE, they both lined up all over the place, but in the truest sense, they are both DT's.
I understand that if you go to pro football reference you'll see White as a DE and Donald as a DT. But Donald is used similarly to White.
White predominantly played in a 4-3 scheme; there's only a couple years where he played in a 3-4, his rookie season before Buddy Ryan took over and his first season with the Packers in 1993.
Shame about Watt getting injury prone. Unbelievable production from 2012-2015. Donald has been so consistent but to me I agree Watt was more impactful at his peak.
Quote:
In comment 15845029 Producer said:
Quote:
When the average OL was 255 pounds, he would be viewed as the greatest player of all time.
I'm not sure I get this? Another transport in the time machine? LOL
If he played in the era when everyone was 255 lbs, Donald would still be great because everything would still be relative including the training/technique/etc. But that wouldn't automatically make him the best.
Yeah one could just as easily make the argument that prior to so much expansion the level of competition that a player had to regularly face was much stiffer because of so many fewer teams diluting the talent pool.
Just judge each player in their own time.
I have a friend who was drafted by the Saints. His was 6'4" and 255/260 lbs. He left after 1 year as he said he was too small. His college roommate was an All Pro LT for several seasons. I asked what weight he played at and he said 325/330 and this was late 70s thru the 80s.
So the boys back then were not quite as small as people think. Not sure they were all as strong as today, but they were still big.
I am not sure I'd go that far.
I'm certainly old enough to watch the LT/White days, and I think the Donald/Reggie comparison isn't really off.
The longevity is in White's favor.
D Thomas was a lesser LT. Parsons is not D Thomas, yet. So far he is outstanding....
The Top 4-3 Ends In NFL History - ( New Window )
??? Might be the first time I have absolutely disagreed with you and it is not close.
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Thats it...I'm never listening to another word you say Sy
When u posting your Bears Giants game review????
Lmaoooooo
We all appreciate your sharing the wisdom man!!!
Thanks so much
I like LT better but it is much, much, closer than many on this board realize.
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Not sure he is better than Ray Lewis.
Yet, we are discussing a totally great player in Aaron Donald, and I mean no disrespect to him. He most likely is the best defensive player in the NFL the last decade. A few have had better single years - Watt, Bosa for example, but he is consistently the top 1, 2, 3 defender every year.
Very cool stuff thanks
If I understand correctly Joe Green would be on the other list...I have him ranked at or near the top
The fun part is that there can be a discussion here. What Donald is doing from inside (much less space to work with) simply has never been done. That is why I bring him into the LT tier. Is he right there with him right now? Gun to my head says no - we need to see him do this another year or two. But he is getting double/triple teamed as much as anyone ever has. He impacts the running game as well as LT did. Production vs pass is in the same boat. Teams are trying to create pressure the way Donald does. He is changing the way some defenses are trying to rush the passer and that was always LT's stamp.
Aaron Donald did not re-define the DT position.
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
Yes, offenses changed the way they countered LT. The change was that in previous eras you could defend a rushing LB with a FB or TE. But LT could not be defended by those guys so you had to dedicate a lineman to cope with LT. But please consider that Donald is ALREADY having to contend with the biggest guys on the field. All they can do now is double team him, which they are doing. If there was something else they could change in response to him, they would do it.
The fun part is that there can be a discussion here. What Donald is doing from inside (much less space to work with) simply has never been done. That is why I bring him into the LT tier. Is he right there with him right now? Gun to my head says no - we need to see him do this another year or two. But he is getting double/triple teamed as much as anyone ever has. He impacts the running game as well as LT did. Production vs pass is in the same boat. Teams are trying to create pressure the way Donald does. He is changing the way some defenses are trying to rush the passer and that was always LT's stamp.
I just watched Donald get triple teamed
He still got a hand on the running back
Donald is great and does create trouble for offenses. I don't think he is feared like LT was.
Til then, NO.
His fumble recovery against the 49ers game changing and clutch just like Donald's in the SB,
LT could almost play any position. Imagine him at TE.
Donald no
Quote:
In comment 15844954 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
who at one time had a relevant opinion feel the need to say something outrageous to see their names once again "in lights".
it's like almost any time Peter Gammons offers an opinion on anything the past decade.
It's not outrageous. Donald is fucking phenomenal. I think LT is greater. But eventually I think Donald will be remembered as #2 when he retires. It's an incredible weapon to have that much pressure from one guy in the middle. If the Giants had him 07 to 11 we would have won one or two more Super Bowls.
Look, great player. He is not even the best DT/DL of all time.
I'll preface this by saying I'm 46 yo. I saw LT and all the players inbetween. Reggie White remains the best DT of all time, IMO. That said, Donald is really close. If someone said he was the best I wouldn't mock that opinion.
LT remains the greatest defensive player ever.
I'm not mad at you, Sy. I think Donald is always going to be somewhat unappreciated here for his complete and consistent dominance during his career.
I am a true blue Giants' fan, but also a fan of football, as I know you are. Since he's been drafted, Donald is the freakiest defensive player I've seen in the NFL. He's certainly in the conversation in the smallest group of players of best all-time. A Hall of Gamer's Hall of Fame player.
I definitely have him over Ray Lewis.
I agree with the other poster that Parsons is the closest thing I've seen to this level of defensive dominance outside of Donald, White, LT, going back to the time I started watching football in the early-mid 80s.
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Aaron Donald has been the DPOY 3 times in 8 seasons. He was DROY in year one and 1st team All-Pro every single season since.
When it comes to rings... it's a team sport. Nobody says Lott is a better player than Donald bc he has double the rings.
You can kind of try that shit with QBs bc they have the most impact on the outcome of any game. But not with this.
Quote:
Defensive players from different era and different positions
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Aaron Donald has been the DPOY 3 times in 8 seasons. He was DROY in year one and 1st team All-Pro every single season since.
When it comes to rings... it's a team sport. Nobody says Lott is a better player than Donald bc he has double the rings.
You can kind of try that shit with QBs bc they have the most impact on the outcome of any game. But not with this.
I meant nobody says Lott was a better player than LT bc he has double the rings.
Aaron Donald did not re-define the DT position.
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
He actually kind of did. He was considered too small to be a true DT in the NFL. Too short, not heavy enough. Teams, including the Giants, passed on him bc he didn't meet the physical profile.
His blend of strength and quickness from a pure DT position, dominating much larger men, has never been done before from the DT position this consistently. He's an unblockable force. White was strong and quick as well, but he was also a prototype DT. Donald is/was far from that. He broke the mold.
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Defensive players from different era and different positions
Most of the players listed on this thread I saw play....
Joe Greene was a 2 time Defensive player of the year and won 4 Super Bowls
So Aaron Donald has that to go up against as a DT/DL
My gut says he is between 5-10 all time
But I can honestly say some of it is recency bias..
That said I just watched the man single handedly blow up a running play in front of my very eyes so....
What he did at the end of last years super bowl was incredible
He is ahead of Olson and Deacon
Better than Ray Lewis
Reggie White was equally unblockable in his prime
How to compare Donald to Lott or Deion???
LT is well LfuckingTee
Sheesh Lott has 4 rings folks
Very very difficult to compare
Aaron Donald has been the DPOY 3 times in 8 seasons. He was DROY in year one and 1st team All-Pro every single season since.
When it comes to rings... it's a team sport. Nobody says Lott is a better player than Donald bc he has double the rings.
You can kind of try that shit with QBs bc they have the most impact on the outcome of any game. But not with this.
Good points all star jim
Donald is so intimidating our UDFA Center took Donald on.
I’ll trust my eyes and evaluation of Bill Belichick regarding where LT lies.
He knows as much as the average fan. He’s a fucking nothing. Who cares what he thinks?
But at the same time, I’ve got two points to make
- Donald is really really good. He’s going to end up Alan Page level which makes him worthy of GOAT defender talk
- LT was amazing and my vote for GOAT, but he’s overrated when people say he’s “unanimous defensive GOAT”. Like I said, he’s my GOAT. But it’s embarrassing sometimes when people say it’s not a contest.
- Donald is really really good. He’s going to end up Alan Page level which makes him worthy of GOAT defender talk
- LT was amazing and my vote for GOAT, but he’s overrated when people say he’s “unanimous defensive GOAT”. Like I said, he’s my GOAT. But it’s embarrassing sometimes when people say it’s not a contest.
Agree with point one.
LT is not overrated. And it truly is not a contest. Remember he was also All Pro at ILB/MLB when Harry was out for a year with injury.
Simply put, if you could pick one defender with which to start your team of any NFL player who would that be...?
And now that I mentioned Harry, I might consider taking Harry over Aaron Donald.
Great points and I’ll add he also invented the strip sack. It’s become a staple play by defenders now but LT was the first to not only want the sack but come down swinging his arm to knock the ball loose in the process.
I liken it to Ron Guidry in the 70’s going after the single game strikeout record. Every time he got two strikes the fans started clapping and cheering for the 3rd. Now it’s part of baseball everywhere but it had to start somewhere, and that started with Guidry’s game against the Angels in old Yankee Stadium. Same with the strip sack, it started with LT.
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Aaron Donald did not re-define the DT position.
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
He actually kind of did. He was considered too small to be a true DT in the NFL. Too short, not heavy enough. Teams, including the Giants, passed on him bc he didn't meet the physical profile.
His blend of strength and quickness from a pure DT position, dominating much larger men, has never been done before from the DT position this consistently. He's an unblockable force. White was strong and quick as well, but he was also a prototype DT. Donald is/was far from that. He broke the mold.
If you are referring to Reggie White, didn't he play DE?
Where 12 ex players and Football experts could draft anyone from any era to make a team.
LT was the FIRST GUY SELECTED overall.
Mic dropped
But he's not LT. No one is, no one ever will be. Sorry.
The thing that hits you when watching retrospectives about LT (or other old-timers mentioned above), is how their presence on or off the field didn't "impact the game" so much as it totally f*cked inside the heads of the quarterbacks.
The famous story about the QB calling a timeout bc he couldn't locate LT on the field, only to discover that LT was on the sideline taking a breather- could in theory apply to a number of players from the 70s and 80s as mentioned above.
NOBODY would tell that story about Aaron Donald.
INTIMIDATION. above performance and ability, is what sets LT (and his class apart). Retired lineman, years later, still talking about sleepless nights. You just wouldn't confuse Aaron Donald for that guy.
There will always be a guy who runs a faster 40, benches more weight, etc. But who are you drafting first- Aaron Donald? Or the EDGE who literally, according to eye-witnesses, makes QBs forget the snap count just by making eye-contact.
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In comment 15845137 M.S. said:
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Aaron Donald did not re-define the DT position.
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
He actually kind of did. He was considered too small to be a true DT in the NFL. Too short, not heavy enough. Teams, including the Giants, passed on him bc he didn't meet the physical profile.
His blend of strength and quickness from a pure DT position, dominating much larger men, has never been done before from the DT position this consistently. He's an unblockable force. White was strong and quick as well, but he was also a prototype DT. Donald is/was far from that. He broke the mold.
If you are referring to Reggie White, didn't he play DE?
White played defensive line. He played 5-tech, 3-tech, shit, sometimes NT. He was a 3-4 DE just like Donald is a 3-4 DE, they both lined up all over the place, but in the truest sense, they are both DT's.
I understand that if you go to pro football reference you'll see White as a DE and Donald as a DT. But Donald is used similarly to White.
'nuff said
I guess we know who our John Jerry "Stan" was.
I meant nobody says Lott was a better player than LT bc he has double the rings.
I would never make that case, but Lott has a spot at the table as one of the greatest defensive players ever excluding LT.
He was a great corner - 2X all pro - until he switched back to his natural position of safety (where he played at USC) and was a 6X all-pro there. Just an unbelievable combination of ball hawk, tackler, leader, and intimidator.
Best two safety I have ever seen...although I will listen to anyone who argues Ed Reed. I think Reed was the best defensive player of his era and better than his teammate Ray Lewis.
This.
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In comment 15845224 allstarjim said:
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In comment 15845137 M.S. said:
Quote:
Aaron Donald did not re-define the DT position.
Aaron Donald may well be the greatest DT in the history of the NFL.
But Lawrence Taylor is the greatest defenseman ever.
He actually kind of did. He was considered too small to be a true DT in the NFL. Too short, not heavy enough. Teams, including the Giants, passed on him bc he didn't meet the physical profile.
His blend of strength and quickness from a pure DT position, dominating much larger men, has never been done before from the DT position this consistently. He's an unblockable force. White was strong and quick as well, but he was also a prototype DT. Donald is/was far from that. He broke the mold.
If you are referring to Reggie White, didn't he play DE?
White played defensive line. He played 5-tech, 3-tech, shit, sometimes NT. He was a 3-4 DE just like Donald is a 3-4 DE, they both lined up all over the place, but in the truest sense, they are both DT's.
I understand that if you go to pro football reference you'll see White as a DE and Donald as a DT. But Donald is used similarly to White.
White predominantly played in a 4-3 scheme; there's only a couple years where he played in a 3-4, his rookie season before Buddy Ryan took over and his first season with the Packers in 1993.