No he is not. And considering the question is -- is Dak better than Cooper Rush comparing him to Jones is a joke.
Really this nonsense with Jones already. You have a heavy draft class for QBs coming up. Whatever happened last year with Trubisky and the like was last offseason. This offseason you have Devin Leary's not even top 10 prospect making NFL plays. Hitch routes the kind Jones could not make
when Garrett was OC. No bubble screen needed/ "new" NFL scheming needed. NC STATE playing - ( New Window )
and more interesting in just getting a better QB. This is what Jones year is about imv. He is evaluating QB's in college and Jones. It gets complicated after that imv.
One big complication is if you make the wrong choice you are probably looking for your next HC in 2-3 years and Mara maybe starts getting the shadow team back together (at least a little).
You've got the DO IT ANYWAYZ JONEZ crowd here, but most credible football analysts seem to agree with the article.
Literally no one has said "do it anywayz Jonez" in any way, shape, or form.
What they have said is that his contract is up at the end of the year no matter how unfavorable his surroundings, and that it's crazy to just keep extending his evaluation period at a price that's likely to be 3x his current cap number (or more) unless he proves himself, albeit in spite of his mediocre supporting cast.
Is that too nuanced for you, or do you just enjoy being obtuse?
RE: Are the Giants going to Franchise Jones next year?
Is a dumb question. It assumes you either franchise him or cut him. Trubisky signed a two year $14 Million contract to be the Steelers starter this year. I think Jones will get more but no where near the average of the top 10 quarterbacks which is what the franchise number is based off of. Jones, who finally has a coach and a GM, isn't leaving in free agency if the Giants want him.
Were the Steelers the team that drafted Trubisky?
Has any team ever signed their own QB coming off his rookie contract to a midlevel prove it deal?
I'm pretty sure the answer is no, it has never happened, but I'm not 100% certain. Are there any examples?
If not, the Trubisky/Mariota/Winston situations are not apples-to-apples.
and more interesting in just getting a better QB. This is what Jones year is about imv. He is evaluating QB's in college and Jones. It gets complicated after that imv.
One big complication is if you make the wrong choice you are probably looking for your next HC in 2-3 years and Mara maybe starts getting the shadow team back together (at least a little).
Contrary to popular opinion on here--I really have not seen one shred of evidence that Shoen or Daboll or even Kafka for that matter really care about D Jones.
It appears their minds are made up that Jones will play here because there is no better option , the offense will run through Barkley, and that at the end of this season Jones will walk.
They can extend Jones for 3-4 years, move the team and scheme forward, and still look for the "can't miss" QB. If Jones works out, then so be it and you extend him further. If not, you have 2-3 years to maneuver for one.
Fuck it, let's go a full decade more with Jones, just to be sure. Why bother trying to take advantage of the single biggest advantage available to teams in the salary cap era?
RE: Nobody is asking Jones to throw for 4500 yards
It's your opinion who cares where people stand on it. I think BD probably has grown pretty fond of some things Jones has shown him. Does he think he can lead a team in a critical division game? Playoffs? Maybe not.
That's why I say its complicated. He may be seen as good enough shorter term (if someone is not available in the draft) while they keep looking. Lots of unknown or maybe like you say it is known.
I still think in the end the draft one in rounds 2-4 and go with Jones/FA and try to win games (so BD keeps his job) and keep looking if needed. Another opinion.
those are your odds on drafting someone better than Jones.
Think about that before cutting Jones loose.
If I am a GM not sure I would like those odds. And I don't see anyone in this years draft that is a definite franchise QB.
First of all, that number is pure fiction. Secondly, it doesn't matter. The risk of picking a QB that ends up being worse than Jones has literally no negative impact on a team that cannot win a championship without significant improvement.
Getting worse at QB takes a team with a 0% chance of a championship and makes them... a team with 0% chance of a championship.
Even at your made-the-fuck-up 6/25 odds, I'll take my 24% chance at improvement over my 0% chance of winning with the status quo.
With the money the Giants have available next year and and Jones’ performance through four years, there’s a better chance they can build a roster that can compete, while keeping Saqoun with a rookie QB on a rookie contract, regardless if that QB is just as bad as Jones.
The question shouldn’t be “does Jones have a chance of succeeding as a Giant?” and should be “Do the Giants have a chance of succeeding with Jones when things are right?”.
There’s no excuses. Facts are many think the Giants offensive roster isn’t very good. Another fact is the Giants are 3-1 and Jones has made plays contributing to that record.
Some like me are of the opinion Schoen and Daboll have the ability to determine Daniels value somewhat independent of wins and losses, in the end it is a team game.
That Jones was dealt a less than ideal hand and he hasn't done much to warrant further consideration beyond this season or next? Yes, some of the talent is questionable, but he hasn't done much to make the offensive situation better. Why did Golladay devolve from a respected WR in this league when Stafford was throwing him the ball to resembling someone who shouldn't be on an NFL roster? Is it related?
The other comical take, is that BBI wants "anyone but Jones." No, most realistic fans want an upgrade over Jones. If that opportunity exists, the Giants should do everything to make that happens. Even if that means drafting a talented first round qb. The answer can't be every year "this is a weak qb class." Yet every single year, you read posts claiming the ineptitude of the qb class. Meanwhile, most years top qb talent is produced.
Are the Giants going to Franchise him next year? Cuz that’s what it’ll take, and that’s alotta money to spend on the previous regime’s QB.
I doubt it, although I am a DJ supporter.
I can't see any avenue short of him lighting it up and taking this team to the playoffs that he gets FT'd. More likely, he'll get a two year prove it bridge deal at reasonable cost as they continue to build the team around him.
Bingo. I keep seeing and hearing this FT talk with jones but why? Let’s say for the sake of argument the giants go 9-8, jones misses 2 games, accounts for 3700 total yards with 20 total tds and 10 ints. Has some good moments but nothing crazy. He keeps doing what’s he’s done through four games. The giants don’t have to FT him they can tell DJ’s camp to shop around and come back to us with any offer and if and when we talk. FT….why? Fuck that. Offer a one or two year fair deal and if he doesn’t like it he can go elsewhere. No one is offering jones a monster deal many qbs sign. That doesn’t jones won’t sign that kind of deal one day, but that day isn’t coming March - May 2023.
Giants can even draft a qb next April in the first round and keep jones for a year as the bridge qb. Taylor isn’t that guy. If we go 9-8 and have a better team next year on paper I don’t want to necessarily go all in with a rookie qb picked 19th or tenth overall in 23. And jones doesn’t have to get the FT or monster deal here with nyg either.
You're right. Since Jones' best qualities are his legs at this point the offense has to be designed around his ability to run. It is so hard to win in this league with quarterbacks who must actively run (not scramble) as a part of the offense. They get beat up and play with injuries and maybe wear down faster or they sit with their injuries which makes them unavailable to the offense.
Are the Giants going to Franchise him next year? Cuz that’s what it’ll take, and that’s alotta money to spend on the previous regime’s QB.
I doubt it, although I am a DJ supporter.
I don't care how bad the team is...you can't franchise tag a QB that doesn't throw TD passes and struggles to throw for 200 yards a game...not to mention the injuries. At the end of the year, you offer him $5 million to backup/mentor your new rookie QB...if he declines, you help him pack.
He's not that good, folks!
Seems like posters on BBV disagree with the haters
No he is not. And considering the question is -- is Dak better than Cooper Rush comparing him to Jones is a joke.
Really this nonsense with Jones already. You have a heavy draft class for QBs coming up. Whatever happened last year with Trubisky and the like was last offseason. This offseason you have Devin Leary's not even top 10 prospect making NFL plays. Hitch routes the kind Jones could not make
when Garrett was OC. No bubble screen needed/ "new" NFL scheming needed.
NC STATE playing - ( New Window )
When he comes back, he'll get hurt again.
If/when the wr/IOL situation is "fixed," he'll get hurt again.
Etc.
One big complication is if you make the wrong choice you are probably looking for your next HC in 2-3 years and Mara maybe starts getting the shadow team back together (at least a little).
You've got the DO IT ANYWAYZ JONEZ crowd here, but most credible football analysts seem to agree with the article.
Literally no one has said "do it anywayz Jonez" in any way, shape, or form.
What they have said is that his contract is up at the end of the year no matter how unfavorable his surroundings, and that it's crazy to just keep extending his evaluation period at a price that's likely to be 3x his current cap number (or more) unless he proves himself, albeit in spite of his mediocre supporting cast.
Is that too nuanced for you, or do you just enjoy being obtuse?
Were the Steelers the team that drafted Trubisky?
Has any team ever signed their own QB coming off his rookie contract to a midlevel prove it deal?
I'm pretty sure the answer is no, it has never happened, but I'm not 100% certain. Are there any examples?
If not, the Trubisky/Mariota/Winston situations are not apples-to-apples.
One big complication is if you make the wrong choice you are probably looking for your next HC in 2-3 years and Mara maybe starts getting the shadow team back together (at least a little).
Contrary to popular opinion on here--I really have not seen one shred of evidence that Shoen or Daboll or even Kafka for that matter really care about D Jones.
It appears their minds are made up that Jones will play here because there is no better option , the offense will run through Barkley, and that at the end of this season Jones will walk.
Fuck it, let's go a full decade more with Jones, just to be sure. Why bother trying to take advantage of the single biggest advantage available to teams in the salary cap era?
You could give Jones two full seasons and he might not get to either of those numbers.
That's why I say its complicated. He may be seen as good enough shorter term (if someone is not available in the draft) while they keep looking. Lots of unknown or maybe like you say it is known.
I still think in the end the draft one in rounds 2-4 and go with Jones/FA and try to win games (so BD keeps his job) and keep looking if needed. Another opinion.
Think about that before cutting Jones loose.
If I am a GM not sure I would like those odds. And I don't see anyone in this years draft that is a definite franchise QB.
First of all, that number is pure fiction. Secondly, it doesn't matter. The risk of picking a QB that ends up being worse than Jones has literally no negative impact on a team that cannot win a championship without significant improvement.
Getting worse at QB takes a team with a 0% chance of a championship and makes them... a team with 0% chance of a championship.
Even at your made-the-fuck-up 6/25 odds, I'll take my 24% chance at improvement over my 0% chance of winning with the status quo.
Fire your editor.
Anyway, how does it "despite" them if they're never going to contend with Jones?
With the money the Giants have available next year and and Jones’ performance through four years, there’s a better chance they can build a roster that can compete, while keeping Saqoun with a rookie QB on a rookie contract, regardless if that QB is just as bad as Jones.
Is your plan going forward to make sure that all of BBI knows that you're working with limited mental capacity?
There’s no excuses. Facts are many think the Giants offensive roster isn’t very good. Another fact is the Giants are 3-1 and Jones has made plays contributing to that record.
Some like me are of the opinion Schoen and Daboll have the ability to determine Daniels value somewhat independent of wins and losses, in the end it is a team game.
Go sign Minshew, Garoppolo, or Bridgewater. All of these guys have produced more than Jones. They all suck but so does Jones.
I m saying the opposite. He can be evaluated given the circumstances.
Quote:
saying we can’t properly evaluate Jones because of the circumstances seems like excuses to me.
I m saying the opposite. He can be evaluated given the circumstances.
Apologies misread your post
The other comical take, is that BBI wants "anyone but Jones." No, most realistic fans want an upgrade over Jones. If that opportunity exists, the Giants should do everything to make that happens. Even if that means drafting a talented first round qb. The answer can't be every year "this is a weak qb class." Yet every single year, you read posts claiming the ineptitude of the qb class. Meanwhile, most years top qb talent is produced.
Quote:
Are the Giants going to Franchise him next year? Cuz that’s what it’ll take, and that’s alotta money to spend on the previous regime’s QB.
I doubt it, although I am a DJ supporter.
I can't see any avenue short of him lighting it up and taking this team to the playoffs that he gets FT'd. More likely, he'll get a two year prove it bridge deal at reasonable cost as they continue to build the team around him.
Bingo. I keep seeing and hearing this FT talk with jones but why? Let’s say for the sake of argument the giants go 9-8, jones misses 2 games, accounts for 3700 total yards with 20 total tds and 10 ints. Has some good moments but nothing crazy. He keeps doing what’s he’s done through four games. The giants don’t have to FT him they can tell DJ’s camp to shop around and come back to us with any offer and if and when we talk. FT….why? Fuck that. Offer a one or two year fair deal and if he doesn’t like it he can go elsewhere. No one is offering jones a monster deal many qbs sign. That doesn’t jones won’t sign that kind of deal one day, but that day isn’t coming March - May 2023.
Giants can even draft a qb next April in the first round and keep jones for a year as the bridge qb. Taylor isn’t that guy. If we go 9-8 and have a better team next year on paper I don’t want to necessarily go all in with a rookie qb picked 19th or tenth overall in 23. And jones doesn’t have to get the FT or monster deal here with nyg either.
You're right. Since Jones' best qualities are his legs at this point the offense has to be designed around his ability to run. It is so hard to win in this league with quarterbacks who must actively run (not scramble) as a part of the offense. They get beat up and play with injuries and maybe wear down faster or they sit with their injuries which makes them unavailable to the offense.
I doubt it, although I am a DJ supporter.
I don't care how bad the team is...you can't franchise tag a QB that doesn't throw TD passes and struggles to throw for 200 yards a game...not to mention the injuries. At the end of the year, you offer him $5 million to backup/mentor your new rookie QB...if he declines, you help him pack.
He's not that good, folks!
Quote:
Like cutting odd your nose despite yourself.
Fire your editor.
Anyway, how does it "despite" them if they're never going to contend with Jones?
lol!
If he misses significant time yet again, that would greatly diminish any possibility of him coming back, that issue cannot be ignored.
I think that premise is assumed