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Tyreek Hill on why he's not with the Jets "State Taxes"

adamg : 10/4/2022 10:43 am
Quote:

Adam Beasley
@AdamHBeasley
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19h
Tyreek Hill on why he's a Dolphin and not a Jet right now: "State taxes."


Seems interesting that money is such an overwhelming issue at that level. You'd think winning would be the priority for establishing a legacy. Not to count someone else's money. And not to say the Jets were the "winning" choice. But we sometimes have these discussions on BBI about where guys are willing to sign and apparently state taxes do matter some % of the time. Seems crazy to me. What about you? Would you take the % save in state taxes to play for an inferior team all other things being equal?
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adamg  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/4/2022 10:46 am : link
It's almost always about the money. The NFL is a business.

These guys only play for so long.
Hill trains and lives near Miami in the offseason  
Strahan91 : 10/4/2022 10:49 am : link
and has said before a lot of his family is nearby so he considers it to be like home. But also, who in their right mind would want to play for the Jests?
RE: adamg  
adamg : 10/4/2022 10:49 am : link
In comment 15845470 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
It's almost always about the money. The NFL is a business.

These guys only play for so long.


I get that money matters a lot. But when you make as much as a star NFL player makes, you can invest in hedge funds and lucrative real estate deals and make MONEY. You're already in that club. What difference does a couple of million in state taxes really buy you?
7 or 8 pct of millions  
upstatenyg : 10/4/2022 10:50 am : link
is alot of cash.

He's  
sin : 10/4/2022 10:50 am : link
a multiple time pro-bowler/all pro who has won a super bowl...it's about the money and I don't blame him. Taxes/expenses here in NJ blow. If my wife wasn't a teacher I'd be out of here already.
RE: Hill trains and lives near Miami in the offseason  
adamg : 10/4/2022 10:50 am : link
In comment 15845476 Strahan91 said:
Quote:
and has said before a lot of his family is nearby so he considers it to be like home. But also, who in their right mind would want to play for the Jests?


I get that. But from Hill's own mouth, it was the state taxes NOT all that other stuff.
Dolphins situation was a win-win over the Jets  
widmerseyebrow : 10/4/2022 10:51 am : link
but if the rosters were switched? As long as I wasn't going to a dumpster fire that could potentially hurt my career, I'd absolutely go to the state with much lower taxes and better weather (cold weather can also lead to more injuries).

I think it's smart to prefer riches over Super Bowl rings when a lot of these guys are practically crippled in their 40s and 50s. You have to be nuts, which a lot of the greats are, to be all about winning over everything else.
I guess I just think it's a bit irrational to be only about the money  
adamg : 10/4/2022 10:54 am : link
at that level. Prestige and intrinsic rewards to playing on marquise franchises and for winning teams would motivate me a lot more if I dedicated my life to playing a sport than just a few more million in the bank. I think it's kind of shallow to just go after the money.
RE: RE: adamg  
jvm52106 : 10/4/2022 10:54 am : link
In comment 15845477 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15845470 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


It's almost always about the money. The NFL is a business.

These guys only play for so long.



I get that money matters a lot. But when you make as much as a star NFL player makes, you can invest in hedge funds and lucrative real estate deals and make MONEY. You're already in that club. What difference does a couple of million in state taxes really buy you?


That is a thought many millionaires do not share. Probably the reason they are millionaires. When two things are relatively equal take the one that brings you the most.
RE: RE: Hill trains and lives near Miami in the offseason  
Mad Mike : 10/4/2022 10:55 am : link
In comment 15845483 adamg said:
Quote:
I get that. But from Hill's own mouth, it was the state taxes NOT all that other stuff.

Well, from his own mouth he'd previously said it was exactly that other stuff. Being from that area and wanting Tua over Wilson as his QB. Not to say taxes aren't an issue for him, but I doubt they were the sole factor, this latest quote notwithstanding.

Anyway, he's still paying state taxes on road games. Should've probably gone to the Texans. No state tax, and fewer road games in high tax ststes (NY, NJ, MA).
he signed a 120 M contract with 52 M guaranteed.  
upstatenyg : 10/4/2022 10:56 am : link
if anyone thinks 8 pct of that someone who is rich doesn't care about, since "they have enough" is crazy. Rich people make tax moves all the time, have residency in different places and lawyers and accountants to minimize the amount they owe. No says, I have "enough" so I will pay millions more in taxes...
Guys generally sign for the most money  
Vanzetti : 10/4/2022 10:58 am : link
Why wouldn’t taxes factor into that? It’s money you’re losing. Taxes really hit athletes hard because their money comes in the form of salary, whereas most people with that much money have investments that are paying capital gains and doing all sorts of other things that lower their tax bill. You can’t do that when it’s straight salary. So athletes really get screwed in terms of taxes.

Money is always important  
UConn4523 : 10/4/2022 10:59 am : link
likely more so to rich people. This isn’t surprising and I’d likely do the same. Legacy? 99.9% of NFL players won’t be HoFers so I completely get taking the money.
RE: he signed a 120 M contract with 52 M guaranteed.  
Vanzetti : 10/4/2022 11:01 am : link
In comment 15845493 upstatenyg said:
Quote:
if anyone thinks 8 pct of that someone who is rich doesn't care about, since "they have enough" is crazy. Rich people make tax moves all the time, have residency in different places and lawyers and accountants to minimize the amount they owe. No says, I have "enough" so I will pay millions more in taxes...


And when people are corporations do forgo tax breaks they usually publish it because it’s really a marketing strategy. Perfect example is salesforce advocating for the 1% corporate tax increase in San Francisco. It makes them look socially responsible and helps attract employees and clients
RE: RE: Hill trains and lives near Miami in the offseason  
Strahan91 : 10/4/2022 11:02 am : link
In comment 15845483 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15845476 Strahan91 said:


Quote:


and has said before a lot of his family is nearby so he considers it to be like home. But also, who in their right mind would want to play for the Jests?



I get that. But from Hill's own mouth, it was the state taxes NOT all that other stuff.

He answered the question differently after the trade happened. He's an eccentric personality though so not a surprise
I’m sure it’s a reason  
ajr2456 : 10/4/2022 11:02 am : link
But I doubt it was the top reason. The Dolphins are a better team, and he lives and trains in Miami.
Dolphins were the better team, so that is moot  
KDavies : 10/4/2022 11:03 am : link
going to a team in FL vs the NY/NJ area is probably like getting about a 10% raise considering taxes. That's not even counting cost of living.

Sure, for some athletes, that is offset by the endorsement amount. Considering Hill beat up a pregnant woman and is a complete piece of shit, endorsements may not fully offset that amount
RE: he signed a 120 M contract with 52 M guaranteed.  
Jim in Tampa : 10/4/2022 11:03 am : link
In comment 15845493 upstatenyg said:
Quote:
if anyone thinks 8 pct of that someone who is rich doesn't care about, since "they have enough" is crazy. Rich people make tax moves all the time, have residency in different places and lawyers and accountants to minimize the amount they owe. No says, I have "enough" so I will pay millions more in taxes...

+1

I was going to post something similar.

It's like asking, "Why would billionaires want to reduce their tax liabilities when they're already billionaires?"
Love his honest response  
Jints in Carolina : 10/4/2022 11:03 am : link
Don't blame him at all
RE: RE: he signed a 120 M contract with 52 M guaranteed.  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:05 am : link
In comment 15845508 Jim in Tampa said:
Quote:
In comment 15845493 upstatenyg said:


Quote:


if anyone thinks 8 pct of that someone who is rich doesn't care about, since "they have enough" is crazy. Rich people make tax moves all the time, have residency in different places and lawyers and accountants to minimize the amount they owe. No says, I have "enough" so I will pay millions more in taxes...


+1

I was going to post something similar.

It's like asking, "Why would billionaires want to reduce their tax liabilities when they're already billionaires?"


If you're a baseball player and you're offered 100 mill to play for the Yankees or 100 mill to play for the Marlins, you're only weighing the tax ramifications? That seems like shallow, short sighted thinking to me.
Larry Brooks, the hockey writer in the Post  
Snablats : 10/4/2022 11:09 am : link
has said this for years, how unfair the hard salary cap is in hockey because the Florida teams and Dallas have such an advantage due to no state taxes. And Tampa has exploited this for years

The Rangers have to pay so much extra to a free agent to equal the money Tampa can offer, its ridiculous

There should be some kind of sliding scale for the salary cap due to the differences in state taxes
not to count other peoples money  
fkap : 10/4/2022 11:16 am : link
but proceeds to count other peoples money.

And do it when there are a myriad of other reasons that he likely came to the decision on top of money. At least make the hill you're dying on a top notch SB contender he's passing on.

What's next? Telling him how he should spend that money?
RE: not to count other peoples money  
Mad Mike : 10/4/2022 11:19 am : link
In comment 15845523 fkap said:
Quote:
What's next? Telling him how he should spend that money?

Beanie babies, obviously.
RE: RE: RE: he signed a 120 M contract with 52 M guaranteed.  
uconn18 : 10/4/2022 11:19 am : link
In comment 15845510 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15845508 Jim in Tampa said:


Quote:


In comment 15845493 upstatenyg said:


Quote:


if anyone thinks 8 pct of that someone who is rich doesn't care about, since "they have enough" is crazy. Rich people make tax moves all the time, have residency in different places and lawyers and accountants to minimize the amount they owe. No says, I have "enough" so I will pay millions more in taxes...


+1

I was going to post something similar.

It's like asking, "Why would billionaires want to reduce their tax liabilities when they're already billionaires?"



If you're a baseball player and you're offered 100 mill to play for the Yankees or 100 mill to play for the Marlins, you're only weighing the tax ramifications? That seems like shallow, short sighted thinking to me.


If a player takes a $100 million over $92 million to play for the Miami dolphins over the Houston Texans is that okay in your mind? Because essentially that’s the same thing as what’s being debated here.

Usually don’t hear about people having a problem with players taking the highest offer in free agency
RE: not to count other peoples money  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:19 am : link
In comment 15845523 fkap said:
Quote:
but proceeds to count other peoples money.

And do it when there are a myriad of other reasons that he likely came to the decision on top of money. At least make the hill you're dying on a top notch SB contender he's passing on.

What's next? Telling him how he should spend that money?


I suppose the idea of a thought experiment is too difficult for you to comprehend. Why not address the actual hypothetical I posed and not some straw man you pulled out of your ass.
So you want to pay more tax?  
GiantsRage2007 : 10/4/2022 11:20 am : link
Who doesn’t try to limit their tax liability? If you had the chance to pay xxx% less in taxes you wouldn’t? Stop it.
RE: So you want to pay more tax?  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:22 am : link
In comment 15845532 GiantsRage2007 said:
Quote:
Who doesn’t try to limit their tax liability? If you had the chance to pay xxx% less in taxes you wouldn’t? Stop it.


If the difference is professional success and enjoying coming to work everyday, I would take a pay cut yes.
Most expensive state to live in lifelong is...  
MarvelousMike : 10/4/2022 11:24 am : link
New Jersey at over 46% of income going out to various local, state, and federal. Least expensive lifelong is Tenn at just above 24%. Everyone else is between those two. So yes, living up there is expensive, regardless of how much you make.
geee  
djm : 10/4/2022 11:27 am : link
maybe this is why NY teams so often appear to be over spending in FA. Could be because of the absurd cost of living in these parts.

TEams don't want to overpay. They won't just blindly throw the very top dollar at a player. Sometimes they have to. IT's either get the player or don't yet every year fans in this town lose their minds over the contract as if the teams don't care about luxury taxes or cap.
NJ. basically has a gross income tax at a high rate  
SomeFan : 10/4/2022 11:28 am : link
If you make $5m, you probably save a quarter million. You also generally have higher costs in NJ.

NY and especially NYC is even worse.
Surprised This is a Surprise  
ShocktoBeck : 10/4/2022 11:28 am : link
Taxes erode anyone’s net income in a compounded fashion which results in huge losses. The difference over time is significant. This would be a consideration for anyone, particularly in an inflationary dominated environment such as we now entered.
RE: RE: So you want to pay more tax?  
upstatenyg : 10/4/2022 11:30 am : link
In comment 15845539 adamg said:
Quote:
In comment 15845532 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


Who doesn’t try to limit their tax liability? If you had the chance to pay xxx% less in taxes you wouldn’t? Stop it.







If the difference is professional success and enjoying coming to work everyday, I would take a pay cut yes.


The jets and the dolphins are basically the same in terms of probability of sucess.

Under the argument, he would have stayed in KC.


RE: geee  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:31 am : link
In comment 15845552 djm said:
Quote:
maybe this is why NY teams so often appear to be over spending in FA. Could be because of the absurd cost of living in these parts.

TEams don't want to overpay. They won't just blindly throw the very top dollar at a player. Sometimes they have to. IT's either get the player or don't yet every year fans in this town lose their minds over the contract as if the teams don't care about luxury taxes or cap.


This was more the point I was trying to make. Clearly we are at a disadvantage among some athletes in signing them since they are just going after every penny regardless of outside potential for money making (e.g. being close to the financial capital of the world or proximity to the most lucrative media market)...
RE: RE: RE: So you want to pay more tax?  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:32 am : link
In comment 15845568 upstatenyg said:
Quote:
In comment 15845539 adamg said:


Quote:


In comment 15845532 GiantsRage2007 said:


Quote:


Who doesn’t try to limit their tax liability? If you had the chance to pay xxx% less in taxes you wouldn’t? Stop it.







If the difference is professional success and enjoying coming to work everyday, I would take a pay cut yes.



The jets and the dolphins are basically the same in terms of probability of sucess.

Under the argument, he would have stayed in KC.



I'm not talking about Hill specifically.
It's funny  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:36 am : link
Some of you wouldn't be able to make sense of a billionaire buying a house in the Hamptons under the logic your displaying. Maybe there are hidden values in being in proximity to other people of vast wealth that paying a premium to get access isn't as much a loss as a cost of doing business?

Why do you think KT5 wants to emulate Michael Strahan? You think he's going to be worried about state income tax if he can get a nationally syndicated talk show when he retires?
I think some people think of taxes as socially responsible  
Vanzetti : 10/4/2022 11:40 am : link
So they say they don’t mind paying them. That’s a very popular thing to say in Bay Area. And most tax referendums pass in places like Berkeley

Of course, it’s not really true with larger amounts as we discovered with SALT.

I also think if it was a white athlete it would pass unnoticed but black athletes are supposed to “give back.” So when a black athlete is just out front about not wanting to pay taxes, it strikes some people as incongruous.
RE: It's funny  
UConn4523 : 10/4/2022 11:42 am : link
In comment 15845586 adamg said:
Quote:
Some of you wouldn't be able to make sense of a billionaire buying a house in the Hamptons under the logic your displaying. Maybe there are hidden values in being in proximity to other people of vast wealth that paying a premium to get access isn't as much a loss as a cost of doing business?

Why do you think KT5 wants to emulate Michael Strahan? You think he's going to be worried about state income tax if he can get a nationally syndicated talk show when he retires?


Everyone is different. Do you really think this was the only reason for Hill? I'm sure it was one of many but he just chose to answer the question the way he did.

Prior to the season starting Miami offered:
- A better QB
- Better weather
- Better taxes
- Up and coming HC
- More open policies on living how you want to live
- On and on and on and on

What exactly does being a NY Jet offer and who has it benefitting the last decade or so? Last player to kill it on the Jets was Darrelle Revis.
RE: I think some people think of taxes as socially responsible  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15845593 Vanzetti said:
Quote:
So they say they don’t mind paying them. That’s a very popular thing to say in Bay Area. And most tax referendums pass in places like Berkeley

Of course, it’s not really true with larger amounts as we discovered with SALT.

I also think if it was a white athlete it would pass unnoticed but black athletes are supposed to “give back.” So when a black athlete is just out front about not wanting to pay taxes, it strikes some people as incongruous.


If Tom Brady said he played for the Bucs because of taxes, that would be incongruous. And he's as red as they come.
RE: It's funny  
bw in dc : 10/4/2022 11:45 am : link
In comment 15845586 adamg said:
Quote:
Some of you wouldn't be able to make sense of a billionaire buying a house in the Hamptons under the logic your displaying. Maybe there are hidden values in being in proximity to other people of vast wealth that paying a premium to get access isn't as much a loss as a cost of doing business?

Why do you think KT5 wants to emulate Michael Strahan? You think he's going to be worried about state income tax if he can get a nationally syndicated talk show when he retires?


Thibs was drafted. Hill had an option to choose where he was traded. We don't know what Thibs might do if given a choice where he can work.

I give Hill credit here for thinking about something like this. It's a material financial impact. I don't get why you anyone would criticize someone for wanting to maximize their income.
I'm not surprised - it's Miami  
ThreePoints : 10/4/2022 11:45 am : link
If he said, "yeah I picked Green Bay over the Jets" sure, color me a bit more skeptical.

But it's Miami guys.
RE: RE: It's funny  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:49 am : link
In comment 15845599 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15845586 adamg said:


Quote:


Some of you wouldn't be able to make sense of a billionaire buying a house in the Hamptons under the logic your displaying. Maybe there are hidden values in being in proximity to other people of vast wealth that paying a premium to get access isn't as much a loss as a cost of doing business?

Why do you think KT5 wants to emulate Michael Strahan? You think he's going to be worried about state income tax if he can get a nationally syndicated talk show when he retires?



Everyone is different. Do you really think this was the only reason for Hill? I'm sure it was one of many but he just chose to answer the question the way he did.

Prior to the season starting Miami offered:
- A better QB
- Better weather
- Better taxes
- Up and coming HC
- More open policies on living how you want to live
- On and on and on and on

What exactly does being a NY Jet offer and who has it benefitting the last decade or so? Last player to kill it on the Jets was Darrelle Revis.


I agree that there were other factors in play. I just found it interesting that state taxes really is a factor to some extent even for players who are on that star level and make hundreds of millions. It just struck me as odd that he clearly values that at least somewhat strongly relative to the other factors. I would imagine professional factors around success and legacy would matter a lot more, but perhaps they don't for some players. Just thought that pointing this out for when FA comes around, because naively on my part I suppose, I never really bought that as super important to the upper echelon FA.
Tom Brady is basically at the very top of  
UConn4523 : 10/4/2022 11:49 am : link
the food chain both in pro sports and in business. And when you have 5 titles already, THEN legacy matters. But don't be fooled, Brady cares a lot about money, he wouldn't be doing all of the investments and businesses on the side if he didn't.

Outside of Jerry Rice who even remembers how many titles WR's win? It almost exclusively comes into play for QB's only. Tyreek got his SB, now he wants all the money he can get, makes a ton of sense.
This is a classic example why the tax states need to provide  
MartyNJ1969 : 10/4/2022 11:51 am : link
a Tax exemption for professional football players or some kind of reinbursement. It really is an unfair advantage being used here.
RE: RE: It's funny  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:51 am : link
In comment 15845613 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15845586 adamg said:


Quote:


Some of you wouldn't be able to make sense of a billionaire buying a house in the Hamptons under the logic your displaying. Maybe there are hidden values in being in proximity to other people of vast wealth that paying a premium to get access isn't as much a loss as a cost of doing business?

Why do you think KT5 wants to emulate Michael Strahan? You think he's going to be worried about state income tax if he can get a nationally syndicated talk show when he retires?



Thibs was drafted. Hill had an option to choose where he was traded. We don't know what Thibs might do if given a choice where he can work.

I give Hill credit here for thinking about something like this. It's a material financial impact. I don't get why you anyone would criticize someone for wanting to maximize their income.
I suppose I'm just weird then. I often make professional decisions that don't maximize my income because I'd rather be fulfilled professionally in other ways.
RE: Tom Brady is basically at the very top of  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:52 am : link
In comment 15845621 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
the food chain both in pro sports and in business. And when you have 5 titles already, THEN legacy matters. But don't be fooled, Brady cares a lot about money, he wouldn't be doing all of the investments and businesses on the side if he didn't.

Outside of Jerry Rice who even remembers how many titles WR's win? It almost exclusively comes into play for QB's only. Tyreek got his SB, now he wants all the money he can get, makes a ton of sense.


Fair point.
RE: This is a classic example why the tax states need to provide  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/4/2022 11:53 am : link
In comment 15845627 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
a Tax exemption for professional football players or some kind of reinbursement. It really is an unfair advantage being used here.


So you want to give professional athletes, who already make millions, an unfair advantage over ordinary citizens who live in that state?

Yeah, that'll go over well.
I read the rest of it and he says this as well  
UConn4523 : 10/4/2022 11:53 am : link
“How close was I? Who? The Jets?” Hill asked. “I knew I was going to pick Miami no matter what because I’m basically from here, I’m here all the time. This is home for me, for us.”
RE: I read the rest of it and he says this as well  
adamg : 10/4/2022 11:55 am : link
In comment 15845637 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
“How close was I? Who? The Jets?” Hill asked. “I knew I was going to pick Miami no matter what because I’m basically from here, I’m here all the time. This is home for me, for us.”


That totally makes sense. I agree. It was more the fact that he even mentioned taxes that got me on what is tangential to the case of Tyreek Hill.
it  
Steve in Greenwich : 10/4/2022 11:58 am : link
would never happen, but for "competitive balance" the leagues salary caps (all leagues, not just NFL) should factor in income tax rates for the teams. Overly simplifying, say a leagues salary cap is 200 mil. One state charges 5% income tax vs another state that doesnt collect income tax. Team A from the first state then has an effective cap number of $210 mil while Team B has $200 mil to work with. I know its not that simple but for all the reasons they created revenue sharing to even the playing field way back when, with the salaries now at absurd levels throughout all sports this seems like just another thing that needs to be leveled. A team in California should not have to pay 20% more than a team in Florida for a certain player just to effectively pay the player the same amount as the Florida team, and then get capped out or pay luxury tax depending on the sport in discussion on that 20%
RE: it  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/4/2022 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15845648 Steve in Greenwich said:
Quote:
would never happen, but for "competitive balance" the leagues salary caps (all leagues, not just NFL) should factor in income tax rates for the teams. Overly simplifying, say a leagues salary cap is 200 mil. One state charges 5% income tax vs another state that doesnt collect income tax. Team A from the first state then has an effective cap number of $210 mil while Team B has $200 mil to work with. I know its not that simple but for all the reasons they created revenue sharing to even the playing field way back when, with the salaries now at absurd levels throughout all sports this seems like just another thing that needs to be leveled. A team in California should not have to pay 20% more than a team in Florida for a certain player just to effectively pay the player the same amount as the Florida team, and then get capped out or pay luxury tax depending on the sport in discussion on that 20%


You are basically arguing that millionaires should be getting tax breaks that someone who is just getting by as a plumber or waitress can't get.

Do you understand what you are saying?
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