I'll admit....I liked him when they hired him....and was excited is 1st year...I thought he would do a really good job. Loved his old school demeanor, thoughts on football, approach. Then overtime realized he wasn't ready for modern football and he ended up really hurting the Giants. My biggest issues with him were the draft picks of Deandre Baker, Will Hernandez, possibly Kadarius Toney. And of course the Nate Solder and Golloday singings. The other gaffes, I think most GM's have. (Omameh, Jonathan Stewart, etc.)
What's interesting now, is the draft picks that are playing well or on the verge of playing well, seem to be his guys. And they could end up being the real cornerstones of the future.
Dexter Lawrence
Saquon Barkley
Xavier Mckinney
Azeez Ojulari
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Tae Crowder
possibly Daniel Jones
He also deserves credit for guys like:
Signing Adoree Jackson
signing Graham Gano.
discovering Nick Gates
trading for Leonard Williams, although his contract is inflated. Same with Bradberry.
Question is, what kind of legacy will Gettleman really have?
Again, I think he screwed up royally his last year....but he could end up being fairly average in terms of a GM grade.
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..because it was apparent he was going to build a team from inside out, meaning a concentration the OL and DL.
He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure.
And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on.
As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately.
Would Josh Allen be what he is if he was drafted by the Giants? I'm not so sure.
Allen, at times, looks like a man playing with boys. You don't see QBs do what he does (now, he may get hurt! lol)....
I see your point, but the talent level is so great I'd have to assume yes or very close to that.
Of course we will never know but if we could go back no one would deny that selection.
I personally think he was the worst GM in franchise history and one of the worst GMs in NFL history, so that's where I stand on the subjective scale. The fact that he hit a few singles with more at bats than every single one of his competitors doesn't change that. And yes, all those players mentioned are singles (maybe even misses), not a single home run. Maybe Andrew Thomas? But even that pick had a 75% shot of connecting, with Becton being the lone miss in that class - considering that, through his own ineptitude, we were basically married to OT with that pick and lucked into a strong class.
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In comment 15847400 BillKo said:
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..because it was apparent he was going to build a team from inside out, meaning a concentration the OL and DL.
He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure.
And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on.
As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately.
Would Josh Allen be what he is if he was drafted by the Giants? I'm not so sure.
Allen, at times, looks like a man playing with boys. You don't see QBs do what he does (now, he may get hurt! lol)....
I see your point, but the talent level is so great I'd have to assume yes or very close to that.
Of course we will never know but if we could go back no one would deny that selection.
Allen struggled quite a bit his first year. Completed under 53% of his passes and had more INT than passing TDs. Sure he has talent. That was never the issue. But he also had good coaching and a front office that gave him a competent OL (and Diggs). I'm not so sure what he would have developed into had the Giants drafted him.
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a super bowl winning GM is anywhere close to as bad as DG, probably the worst performing GM by the record in our history is beyond me.
You can't chalk up Jones or Barkley as good picks. Barkley he openly mocked analytics when he picked him when the positional value argument he spat in the face of is mainly built on durability concerns as well as the very real need to split carries and therefore resources amongst RBs for them to be effective and available. Jones was the 6th pick in the draft and getting a QB to perform on their rookie deal is about the most important thing in the modern era. These are F grades, you don't grade a GM on if a player has talent you grade them on the value they provide and if the team can win around them.
Thomas is a great pick but the 5 first round picks he made 3/5 of them were bad to total disasters in Toney. Lawrence is an adequate pick. McKinney is the only non-first round pick to really speak of and with all the picks he had at the top of rounds that again is a horrible yield not "500." Drafting was his best thing and he did not have an "eye for talent" due to all the horrible talent he brought in overall.
Reese deserves plenty of credit for the 2 Super Bowl championships, but the last 5 years he was there, the Giants had one winning season and ended in a 3-13 season. There is a reason he was fired. I don't think anyone here has said he is worse than Gettleman. The Giants made the right choice in moving on from Reese, but obviously made the wrong choice in picking the replacement
Totally agree. Reese got into a habit of reaching on players and ignoring cornerstone positions. He also kept trying to get the most out of Eli like a tube of toothpaste but indirectly hurt him instead of helping him IMO.
Was time to move on but DG turned out to be a huge mistake that cost us years.
Of course, now we appear to have good people in place. Maybe it works out for the best.
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In comment 15847420 KDavies said:
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In comment 15847400 BillKo said:
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..because it was apparent he was going to build a team from inside out, meaning a concentration the OL and DL.
He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure.
And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on.
As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately.
Would Josh Allen be what he is if he was drafted by the Giants? I'm not so sure.
Allen, at times, looks like a man playing with boys. You don't see QBs do what he does (now, he may get hurt! lol)....
I see your point, but the talent level is so great I'd have to assume yes or very close to that.
Of course we will never know but if we could go back no one would deny that selection.
Allen struggled quite a bit his first year. Completed under 53% of his passes and had more INT than passing TDs. Sure he has talent. That was never the issue. But he also had good coaching and a front office that gave him a competent OL (and Diggs). I'm not so sure what he would have developed into had the Giants drafted him.
Easy question, go back to 2018 and have the #2 pick, who would you pick?
Take everything into consideration.
Daboll and Wink turned vinegar into wine with DG drafted players this year.
I think you need to look at the roster and see how many new players there are.
ah, so i guess Barkley didn't play in 2018 or 2019?
Even Mara finally figured it out.
And that's saying something.
That didn't happen and he bit on DJ. Bad luck turned into reaching.
His thinking was maybe he wouldn't have a shot at Herbert in 2020...but it's these decisions that make or break a GM.
1) Minimize the distractions top down
2) Hire a strong, competent head coach
3) Build a strong pro and college scouting department
4) High hit rate in the top 2 rounds, medium hit rate after
5) High hit rate on 10M+ AAV veterans, medium hit rate after
= Win games and go to the playoffs
I'd say Gettleman did an OK job on number 4, and an awful job at the other 4.
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"Barkley is a cornerstone" and "Barkley was a good pick" narrative is purely the result of one month of good play from him. That is it. No one except perhaps the biggest homer shills in the world were making these assertions a month ago. Can he stay healthy and perform like this for the entire season before everyone jumps back on the bandwagon? Giants fans are such cheap dates.
ah, so i guess Barkley didn't play in 2018 or 2019?
Ahh, so I guess a month ago you thought Barkley was one of the best players in the league, a cornerstone for the future, and a successful draft pick? Come on. Every reasonable fan understands that Barkley is in a “show me” year, and if you have already decided after 4 games that he has shown you, then you’re a cheap date.
He was very good for the Giants in his role under Reese, and there was reason at the time of his hiring to believe that he would have success. But either the role was too big for him, he got too full of himself, or time passed him by--probably all three.
It's easy to pick up a couple of decent players when you're picking top 5 of every draft. And it's nice that Saquon is back to his old self, but if he hadn't mismanaged the roster so badly the team wouldn't need to put everything on his back.
In a 16-game schedule, the Giants had only finished with four wins or fewer three times before Gettleman became GM--Parcell's first year, McAdoo's second year, and Fassel's last year. In a four-year span, Gettleman did it twice, with two different coaches. The second time, it was on a 17-game schedule. The other two seasons were five and six wins. And if you need to remember how godawful this team was, remember that Gettleman and Mara did a victory lap talking about how they got the right coach in Judge after he managed a whopping six wins.
Now, examine the alternative.
Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson will see 4x+ that in guaranteed money (8-10x that if Lamar gets his way). Barkley won't even be top 5 among non-QBs in 2nd contract guarantee money when the dust settles. Off the top of my head Nelson, James and Ward are over. Fitzpatrick, Landry, Sutton, O'Niel, Warner, Chubb, etc I'm too lazy to look up. He might not even be top 10 non-QB. And he was the 2nd overall pick Add in the fact that it's been all but confirmed that Denver wanted to trade up so the cumulative value of those picks adding up to more than 25-30m guarantees on second contracts is another layer. Gettleman's handling of the Barkley pick was a disaster.
I understand that breaking this down is a fool's errand to an extent, so if your instinct is to say "what about Rosen and Darnold" then you just don't get it.
He was a bad general manager. Fact. Couldn't pick a coach. Fact. Couldn't identify good free agents, except for basically 1 guy, fact.
But he drafted top end talent that could be the reason we get it turned around. Fact.
Why do you love Dave so much?
Every GM who picks in the top part of every round for four years is going to hit on some of their picks. Even Matt Millen drafted Calvin Johnson
Well said and much more succinct than what I was about to write.
It is you and other posters who can't separate me saying "Gettleman picked some great players" and "he was also a terrible GM."
You guys are so dug in on your opinion of Jones (and Barkley until this season) that is affected your ability to look at other players on the roster as a positive.
Get this through your skull: I have said, and I am saying now, that Gettleman was a really bad GM.
But I will also say, is that he absolutely nailed some top end talent which will be a key reason the team turns it around.
Some of you posters that are saying "the roster is absolutely horrible" seem to be forgetting the fact that we likely have 3 All Pros on the team, as well as some decent football players who are playing way better because of better coaching.
It is you and other posters who can't separate me saying "Gettleman picked some great players" and "he was also a terrible GM."
You guys are so dug in on your opinion of Jones (and Barkley until this season) that is affected your ability to look at other players on the roster as a positive.
Get this through your skull: I have said, and I am saying now, that Gettleman was a really bad GM.
But I will also say, is that he absolutely nailed some top end talent which will be a key reason the team turns it around.
Some of you posters that are saying "the roster is absolutely horrible" seem to be forgetting the fact that we likely have 3 All Pros on the team, as well as some decent football players who are playing way better because of better coaching.
Your head was in your ass the other day with your “Gettleman wasn’t that bad thread” the other day. Who the fuck cares about giving him credit about hitting on a handful of good players? You don’t even know which of those players he actually wanted and who he was talked into by the coaching staff. How do you know he didn’t want Becton over Thomas and was talked out of it?
Your eagerness to give Dave credit is weird. No GM misses on every move they make. Vikings fans aren’t rushing to give Spielman credit for drafting Jefferson.
A blind monkey could pick random names out of a hat picking top 10 every year and hit on some picks.
It is you and other posters who can't separate me saying "Gettleman picked some great players" and "he was also a terrible GM."
You guys are so dug in on your opinion of Jones (and Barkley until this season) that is affected your ability to look at other players on the roster as a positive.
Get this through your skull: I have said, and I am saying now, that Gettleman was a really bad GM.
But I will also say, is that he absolutely nailed some top end talent which will be a key reason the team turns it around.
Some of you posters that are saying "the roster is absolutely horrible" seem to be forgetting the fact that we likely have 3 All Pros on the team, as well as some decent football players who are playing way better because of better coaching.
And you don't get that it doesn't matter. If a GM's job was "have a couple good players that he used top picks on," great, he did his job. In addition, the resources he used on one of the players you keep pointing to (Barkley) would have been better spent elsewhere. So sorry, no credit there either.
It is you and other posters who can't separate me saying "Gettleman picked some great players" and "he was also a terrible GM."
You guys are so dug in on your opinion of Jones (and Barkley until this season) that is affected your ability to look at other players on the roster as a positive.
Get this through your skull: I have said, and I am saying now, that Gettleman was a really bad GM.
But I will also say, is that he absolutely nailed some top end talent which will be a key reason the team turns it around.
Some of you posters that are saying "the roster is absolutely horrible" seem to be forgetting the fact that we likely have 3 All Pros on the team, as well as some decent football players who are playing way better because of better coaching.
Are you FMiC's alter ego?
Just shut the fuck up already man. If you're response to Gettleman picking a good player is "well, who knows if he even wanted him?" then you are just not a serious person.
Even Mara finally figured it out.
And that's saying something.
This, times 1000
Everyone laughed at me and said I was a Gettleman schill.
Just shut the fuck up already man. If your response to Gettleman picking a good player is "well, who knows if he even wanted him?" then you are just not a serious person.
Ah yes Dave Gettleman has the same pull in organization as Dave Gettleman. You are an unserious loser.
Everyone laughed at me and said I was a Gettleman schill.
I meant to circle back and congratulate you on such a bold prediction.
Well done.
Everyone laughed at me and said I was a Gettleman schill.
That’s the whole point. Your victory dance for Barkley is premature and it is based on 4 games, like I said.
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It's not good enough as a NFL GM.
I know....but I do think batting .500 is truly what most NFL GM's do.
I think Howie Roseman is the best.
Getting it right 50% of the time can still destroy the franchise by missing at the most important positions on the field.... And also the most expensive contracts putting us in cap hell. This is exactly what we are dealing with now n
I cant speak for everyone, but picking names from the cream of the crop top of the draft is not exactly something that GMs struggle with. What did DG say about Barkley? My mother could have scouted him?
Kayvon had been a hot prospect since the 2021 college season.
The lesson really is not to throw roses at GMs. See how that class works out in 3 years when it's time to pay them.
You can talk about shoene based on things he's done like the head coach, like managing the significant challenge of having to field a roster with limited resources and cap hardship. The risks he does or doesn't take. But not "he had the vision to pick the #1 or #2 edge rusher and tackle in the draft".
Yes, if those two players turn into what people rightfully expect top 10 picks to turn into, there absolutely is a grading curve applied. No GM should be celebrated that much for their picks at the top of the draft. It's their overall body of work, including roster construction that complements those top-of-the-draft players, salary cap management that maximizes the value of having those top-of-the-draft players during their cheapest years, and - ultimately, more than anything - the win/loss record that results from building your team around those top-of-the-draft players that matters.
The fact that DG may have hit on a few players at the top of the draft is nearly meaningless when you consider the roster he built to surround them and the scorched earth he left behind for our salary cap.
Not only was it the right move, but Thomas is playing like the best left tackle in football at the age of 23.
The coaching selections and free agency moves were a disaster. But he may have selected the NFL's best offensive weapon and one of the game's best left tackles. And yet, most fans just don't want to admit that to be true.
Most people seemed to like the pick.
Giants Draft Thomas - ( New Window )
But that some actually want to debate it, and hard, is eye-rolling...
Becton has to play right tackle because of his weight and can't play a game without getting injured.
Becton has to play right tackle because of his weight and can't play a game without getting injured.
Just a weird victory lap.
Do you want BBI to pull up every example of every player that you wanted to wait and see how it played out, only to see that litany of players ultimately flame out, one after another?
You say the same thing about every fucking player. You're bound to be right eventually, just like Gettleman himself. That's probably why you're one of his few remaining fans.
Daboll hired a modern up and coming OC and a veteran DC, both of which seem to be in their lane and very good at it.
No coincidence that Love looks like a starting NFL player now that he has a better coordinator.
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for example, he drafted Andrew Thomas when basically everyone on this board and in the media said that was the wrong move amongst the available tackles.
Not only was it the right move, but Thomas is playing like the best left tackle in football at the age of 23.
The coaching selections and free agency moves were a disaster. But he may have selected the NFL's best offensive weapon and one of the game's best left tackles. And yet, most fans just don't want to admit that to be true.
Most people seemed to like the pick. Giants Draft Thomas - ( New Window )
Winner winner chicken dinner, yay me!
sb from NYT Forum : 4/23/2020 9:29 pm : link
So happy
When you have years of opportunities to draft college football players, of course all of them aren't going to suck. If you draft a player projected to be 1st round or 2nd round talent, it doesn't matter if you arrived at that pick by putting on a blindfold and throwing a dart at the draft board.
So yeah, he drafted McKinney. He's a good football player. It doesn't mean he had some astute foresight in drafting him. Yes, I acknowledge that Gettleman drafted some good football players. But honestly? It almost doesn't matter. The draft is just the most visible moment for a general manager, but it's only one part of the job.
He's the worst GM in the history of the franchise. If you want to focus on the fact that some of the players he drafted don't suck, go ahead. To me, that's like finding a single pair of jeans that fit at Walmart and telling people ya know, Walmart actually has some nice stuff.
Thomas and Barkley are two of my favorite players on the team. They have been superb this season. Gettleman still sucks.
It turns out Thomas had a foot injury early on, which required surgery and materially impacted his play.
If there weren’t mitigating factors to explain his bad performance, and that’s who he really was — that would have been a disaster.
He still blows chunks.