thoughts on Gettleman

God Giants fans... what happened to you?

In comment 15847169 Eric from BBI said:

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God Giants fans... what happened to you?

Eric....I said he royally screwed up....and hurt the Giants.

It's not good enough as a NFL GM.

Should go down as an all time failure of any organization. He was horrible in overall management and did not maximize draft position in most year. The Giants are largely bereft of impact talent all over the field, and are somehow well over the Cap.

They have such little offensive talent, they are basically running a college offense from 1965.

but the Kenny Golladay signing for above-market money to a middling WR that had no other suitors...that disqualifies any GM from being in the "average" conversation.

Other knockdowns:

* From Day 1, his stated goal was to get the OL in better shape, and it was in much worse condition when he left
* Resistance to using technology or analytics
* Shurmur, McAdoo and Judge hires

In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:

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It's not good enough as a NFL GM.

He wasn't batting .500.

He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it.

It will take years to clean up.

In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:

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It's not good enough as a NFL GM.

I know....but I do think batting .500 is truly what most NFL GM's do.

I think Howie Roseman is the best.

Really?? Maaaaaybe he can get an average grade purely looking at his drafts but overall as a GM with FA signings, contracts, etc was piss poor.

In comment 15847169 Eric from BBI said:

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God Giants fans... what happened to you?

Good question.

FFS!

of the franchise. Arguably one of the worst GMs in the history of the league. An arrogant, out of touch and self entitled guy who got the job because of a lazy and nepotistic owner.

That's how I feel.

Ray Handley can be greeted with open arms compared to Gettleman.

He’d be 10x better than he was. Took a bad team and made it worse. Had a QB on a rookie contract and left his successor in cap hell. How is that average?

If you don’t have enough cap space to release golladay, you destroyed the ability of this team to work. It’s gonna take schoen years to clean this mess up. Staff looks really good though.

Worst hire in Giants history. Bar none.

In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:

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It's not good enough as a NFL GM.

Huh? If you regularly draft two or three contributors every year you're on the plus side.

What he left behind was far worse than what he started with even with all the fortunate turnarounds in some of the players you mentioned (under a new coaching staff that he did not hire).

and the GM is responsible for the coaching hires, nominally.

But I think its pretty clear the owners interfere. Hell they continue to do it.

It would truly be remarkable, so cherry picking a few good players on a team that is in shambles on offense this year and likely next year is really reaching if you're trying to prove that he's "average."

we were picking top 6 in every round. You or I could have gotten some good players out of that.

In looking at this it is a big fail. Some work off each other.

I agree he left some very nice pieces and his vision still has a meaningful place. The problem was the execution.

The really big one is the OL is still a problem. This makes him a much bigger failure imv.

The HC selections. That is very collaborative. I also think he had a mandate with Eli.

Good thing is at least JS has more of a young baseline than what Dave started with.

...as a GM is that he was surpassed in his ineptitude recently by peers such as Ryan Pace who traded up for both Mitch Trubisky and Justin Fields, and Ryan Grigson who ruined Andrew Luck by subjecting him to 205MM artillery fire every pass play.

Had a decent career as a scout and NYG head of pro personnel. 'Manager' part of the General Manager role was elusive.

is shaping up like the best draft class in over a decade or two.

Was a missed field goal in Tennessee and two ugly wins against 2 of the worst 5 teams in the NFL and here we are already with a positive retrospective on the Dave Gettleman era. You’re right, though. His fingerprints are all over this juggernaut roster. FMiC should come back and take a bow.

In comment 15847187 Spiciest Memelord said:

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In comment 15847173 rasbutant said: Quote: It's not good enough as a NFL GM. Huh? If you regularly draft two or three contributors every year you're on the plus side.

I didn't expect anyone to do the math. Point is, yes he hit on some things, but man when he missed he really missed. Every GM is going to have some hits and some misses. He had way too many misses (big miss too) then he did hits.

When we drafted him first overall in the second round, every pundit from the Boston Globe to the Los Angeles Times felt we had solved our LG position for 12 years. He was highly heralded.

When he signed Golladay, he probably knew his days were numbered and was hoping to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

But where I really cringed with him was his constantly being on his back foot with Leo and the contract negotiations after trading with the Jets. Has Leo turned out to be a good player...sure....but he held all the cards with Gettleman through the whole relationship.

Terrible. Unless the player is Tom Brady or a sure fire HOF'er, that should never happen.

A broken clock is right once per day- he was bound to get something right.

At the end of the day, in his attempt to contend, he paid a lot of money to players who were clearly not worth it and put us in salary cap hell.

between Gettleman and Matt Millen as worst GM of the 21st century. Both of them are contenders for the GM WOAT (worst of all time).

hear ,or speak the name. He is gone. he can't hurt you anymore. (besides setting the franchise back decades....decades!!!!)

He was attrocious at team building, managing the cap, assessing FA value, dealing with the media, hiring coaches and pretty much most other gm duties.

seemed to have a decent eye for talent, as alot of the players you mentioned are exciting. I know some people want everything he touched dragged into the yard and burned, but I'm excited to see some of these guys under a real coaching staff.

In comment 15847202 GiantBlue said:

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When we drafted him first overall in the second round, every pundit from the Boston Globe to the Los Angeles Times felt we had solved our LG position for 12 years. He was highly heralded. When he signed Golladay, he probably knew his days were numbered and was hoping to pull a rabbit out of the hat. But where I really cringed with him was his constantly being on his back foot with Leo and the contract negotiations after trading with the Jets. Has Leo turned out to be a good player...sure....but he held all the cards with Gettleman through the whole relationship. Terrible. Unless the player is Tom Brady or a sure fire HOF'er, that should never happen.

Hernandez is not an athlete. I think in last 3-5 years....the best OL in the NFL are really athletic.

He inherited a bottom of the barrel football team, and somehow managed to leave it worse.

It was so bad that Schoen couldn't even afford to cut the players he wanted due to the overloaded and restructured contracts in place.

A general manager who never had his team above .500 for four full seasons, and left behind a roster that was capped out for a fifth season after spending in free agency like a drunken sailor with such recklessness that his team could not even afford to field a full roster by the end of his tenure - that's the executive summary of DG's time here as GM.

And there are still fans who can't resist the temptation to defend his performance if even to just suggest that he wasn't as bad as advertised? He was worse than most fans can even comprehend because most choose not to pay attention to the impact that cap dynamics have on the timeline of a rebuild.

did to Sanibel Island? That's essentially what Hurricane Resume Dave did to 1925 Giants Way.

THE only way to save some of DG's legacy is if Jones works out and brings a championship. That would be a big deal.

There's plenty more about his mismanagement that could be said, but there's no need to.

and couldn't have been more arrogant and condescending about it at every opportunity along the way.

good riddance. screw that guy.

He had more draft assets than any GM in that period and he left us as one of the most untalented rosters in the league. Good lord. Open your eyes.

...and not once, not for one lousy week, were the Giants ever over .500.

Frank and Stanley Robison, it would have been hard to do worse than Dave Gettleman

He was a decent evaluator of talent. But that's really only a small part of the GM's job. GMs need to be good strategists and resource managers, and Gettleman failed at those elements.

Identifying a good draft pick or signing here or there doesn't get around the broader issue of resource allocation. On that it was just constant, constant disappointment.

In comment 15847225 ElitoCanton said:

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He had more draft assets than any GM in that period and he left us as one of the most untalented rosters in the league. Good lord. Open your eyes.

This. Holy hell.

In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15847173 rasbutant said: Quote: It's not good enough as a NFL GM. He wasn't batting .500. He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it. It will take years to clean up.

The franchise had half a decade of failure before Gettleman showed up. Gettleman hardly wrecked the franchise. They were a terrible team before he showed up. They were a terrible team with him. He failed to improve them into a contender, yes. But they were not a good team before he was there.

here is the kick in the balls with DG...

He's passed on three QBs right now who are on a legitimate HoF trajectory - Allen, Jackson and Herbert.

And in a league where having a great QB is paramount to consistent success, that is three doses of salt on a gaping wound...

no1 really wants to talk about this, but what really hurt the Giants was keeping Eli Manning around too long.

I think if we'd moved on from Eli a couple years earlier, we'd be in a better position.

In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 15847173 rasbutant said: Quote: It's not good enough as a NFL GM. He wasn't batting .500. He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it. It will take years to clean up.

Eric, how about we give Gettleman the BBI Giant of the Year award, just for being gone? Then when he shows up to receive it, you can read him some of the best thread comments about what a dope he was and how he destroyed the franchise.

the next four years, 5, 4, 6, and 4 wins. He took over a bad team with a lot of problems, and did not improve that team.

As GM, bottom of the barrel, difficult to do much worse given all the resources at his disposal. Not to mention his attitude, his very poor hires, and building an organization that was rotten to its core. The game and the work required had all zoomed right by him, unfortunately.

In comment 15847239 riceneggs said:

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no1 really wants to talk about this, but what really hurt the Giants was keeping Eli Manning around too long. I think if we'd moved on from Eli a couple years earlier, we'd be in a better position.

wasn't there a report out that Ben Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Patrick Mahommes and the front office rejected it?

In comment 15847244 JonC said:

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As GM, bottom of the barrel, difficult to do much worse given all the resources at his disposal. Not to mention his attitude, his very poor hires, and building an organization that was rotten to its core. The game and the work required had all zoomed right by him, unfortunately.

Not only was DG a disaster, but the process that led to Accorsi/Mara hiring him was a complete embarrassment and sham.

That story should never be left out when reviewing the DG era...

In comment 15847252 riceneggs said:

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In comment 15847239 riceneggs said: Quote: no1 really wants to talk about this, but what really hurt the Giants was keeping Eli Manning around too long. I think if we'd moved on from Eli a couple years earlier, we'd be in a better position. wasn't there a report out that Ben Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Patrick Mahommes and the front office rejected it?

Ncadoo is a QB guru, he was also right about Geno, Mayfield and Darnold!

That refuse to admit they are wrong is staggering. Try to say it. Now repeat after me. "I ",,,, "WAS",,,,"WRONG". Now come on, give a try. You can do it.

In comment 15847235 KDavies said:

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In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 15847173 rasbutant said: Quote: It's not good enough as a NFL GM. He wasn't batting .500. He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it. It will take years to clean up. The franchise had half a decade of failure before Gettleman showed up. Gettleman hardly wrecked the franchise. They were a terrible team before he showed up. They were a terrible team with him. He failed to improve them into a contender, yes. But they were not a good team before he was there.

Was Gettleman handcuffed by the salary cap in any meaningful way when he took over?

Were there any players that he would have cut but he could not afford to?

Were there any players that he had no choice but to cut or restructure just to conform to the cap?

Did Reese, even in as weak a condition that he left the roster, ever find himself with so little cap room that he could not afford to fill out a complete roster during the season?

Simply by this context alone, compare the state of the roster when Gettleman took over to the state of the roster when Schoen took over.

No matter how poorly you think Reese managed the roster, Gettleman did worse, by orders of magnitude.

In comment 15847239 riceneggs said:

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no1 really wants to talk about this, but what really hurt the Giants was keeping Eli Manning around too long. I think if we'd moved on from Eli a couple years earlier, we'd be in a better position.

Alternatively had they stuck with Eli through 2019, and waited for Herbert in 2020 the Giants are also better off.

While the Giants lurch toward rebuild year #6

But that’s only one of the jobs of a GM. He was objectively terrible at every other one. His hires, team building, vision, the cap. And his misses personnel wise we’re really terrible as well. Solder, Golladay, Omaneh, Stewart. Overall he was a mess.

Who has the balls to even to come on this website and try to sell bullshit about Gettleman because, they say, I admit it, I liked him. Guess what. So did I when they hired him. He wrecked the franchise. End of the story. The best thing to happen was Mara turning this over to an outsider. After he fucked Coughlin and Eli, shamelessly. Time to move on my friend and let's all be happy it looks like we are now in good hands in the front office and on the field with our coaching staff. Let's leave it alone.

and shit-shield for ownership, which had become emboldened to run shit from behind the scenes ever since forcing coughlin to retire.

mara hired the coaches, as we all know. gettleman wanted wilks or patricia the year they got shurmur. mara also wanted judge to satiate his belichick worship.

deandre baker- shurmur was pushing for him.

beckham- shurmur wanted him off the team.

kadarius toney- judge wanted him.

andrew thomas was someone garrett was relentlessly pushing for.

gettleman allowed himself to be pushed in whatever direction the coaches and owners wanted to push him. no real vision of his own. unlikeable and smarmy on top of it.

1) the leo williams contract, 2) drafting barkley with the #2 overall and not moving back to collect what could have been at minimum nick chubb and quinten nelson, and 3) taking daniel jones when eli still had a year left on his contract instead of waiting til '20 and moving heaven and earth for herbert, were his worst sins

the golladay signing was icing on the cake but the wheels of failure were spinning long before that whiff.

WHile some of his picks are performing better now, he really struggled finding quality after the first couple rounds.

Assuming the Neal pick is what he got on the trade down, not picking Parsons is an epic failure. He is an absolute game changer and the most disruptive pass rusher since LT. The guy wins on pass plays at close to 50 percent. That's insane. Similarly, if you assume the pick became KT, I feel confident even at this stage of saying he will never be what Parsons is.

1st rounders is no great praise. A GM should hit with such premium picks. A good GM makes his bones hotting on later picks and he was a failure in that

he was bad, but it is very weird to me that fans of this team just can't admit that he may have ended up making some really, really good draft picks that can be cornerstones for the team moving forward

Started with Reese not being able to rebuild an offensive line for an aging QB with no mobility. It was tge first bad thing that the franchise did, stupid. Then firing Coughlin's, staff, because they had to blame somebody instead of looking in the fucking mirror. Then came the let's blame Eli years since we are so lost. That is my view of it in a nutshell. Thete have been so many stupid takes that we all lost count, but in a nutshell, that was it.

In comment 15847253 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15847244 JonC said: Quote: As GM, bottom of the barrel, difficult to do much worse given all the resources at his disposal. Not to mention his attitude, his very poor hires, and building an organization that was rotten to its core. The game and the work required had all zoomed right by him, unfortunately. Not only was DG a disaster, but the process that led to Accorsi/Mara hiring him was a complete embarrassment and sham. That story should never be left out when reviewing the DG era...

Agreed. Talk about living in the past and being fookin' lazy with such a crucial moment.

In comment 15847268 japanhead said:

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and shit-shield for ownership, which had become emboldened to run shit from behind the scenes ever since forcing coughlin to retire. mara hired the coaches, as we all know. gettleman wanted wilks or patricia the year they got shurmur. mara also wanted judge to satiate his belichick worship. deandre baker- shurmur was pushing for him. beckham- shurmur wanted him off the team. kadarius toney- judge wanted him. andrew thomas was someone garrett was relentlessly pushing for. gettleman allowed himself to be pushed in whatever direction the coaches and owners wanted to push him. no real vision of his own. unlikeable and smarmy on top of it. 1) the leo williams contract, 2) drafting barkley with the #2 overall and not moving back to collect what could have been at minimum nick chubb and quinten nelson, and 3) taking daniel jones when eli still had a year left on his contract instead of waiting til '20 and moving heaven and earth for herbert, were his worst sins the golladay signing was icing on the cake but the wheels of failure were spinning long before that whiff.

I don;t get how people can still be harping on the LW trade and signing. He's a very good player and any statement that he could have been signed without the trade is nothing more than speculation.

We can kill DG without the LW issue.

for example, he drafted Andrew Thomas when basically everyone on this board and in the media said that was the wrong move amongst the available tackles.

Not only was it the right move, but Thomas is playing like the best left tackle in football at the age of 23.

The coaching selections and free agency moves were a disaster. But he may have selected the NFL's best offensive weapon and one of the game's best left tackles. And yet, most fans just don't want to admit that to be true.

Gettleman can scout football players. He just can't run a team.

Is the continued injury riddled team that ownership refuses once again to look in the fucking mirror and say, less put grass so maybe we can help this a little. No, there are plenty of studies that prove nothing. So morons and doing studies and they can't Cone up with a good enough argument to shut up stubborn, entrenched owners like John Mara. We will continue to lead the league injuries because of John Mara. This has gone on for so long that to even make an argument makes you look like an idiot. But his pride is more important than the team and the fans. This family has done plenty to help the NFL, yet done little to help its own franchise.

In comment 15847235 KDavies said:

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In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 15847173 rasbutant said: Quote: It's not good enough as a NFL GM. He wasn't batting .500. He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it. It will take years to clean up. The franchise had half a decade of failure before Gettleman showed up. Gettleman hardly wrecked the franchise. They were a terrible team before he showed up. They were a terrible team with him. He failed to improve them into a contender, yes. But they were not a good team before he was there.

He took the mess Reese/Ross created and turned it into a dumpster fire.

I can't even believe we are having this conversation.

Absolutely amazing.

In comment 15847293 ryanmkeane said:

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Gettleman can scout football players. He just can't run a team.

Scout players? Like Golladay, Solder, Jones?

He wrecked this team.

Eric, and some posters can't admit that he may have made some good franchise draft picks.

So, it isn't just a 1 sided coin. You can say that he was a disaster but that he actually drafted really good talent that can be part of the reason this thing gets turned out.

What's going to happen if the Giants win 9 games this year with the best LT in football, best NT, one of the best safeties, best RB, who were all drafted by Gettleman?

In comment 15847307 ryanmkeane said:

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Eric, and some posters can't admit that he may have made some good franchise draft picks. So, it isn't just a 1 sided coin. You can say that he was a disaster but that he actually drafted really good talent that can be part of the reason this thing gets turned out. What's going to happen if the Giants win 9 games this year with the best LT in football, best NT, one of the best safeties, best RB, who were all drafted by Gettleman?

He was a train wreck.

His coaching hires were a disaster.

His free agent decisions were largely a disaster.

Most of his draft picks were bad.

I can't believe we're having this conversation.

Fans of other teams laughed at this clown.

eric, the Golladay signing is a disaster. Everyone on earth can see that. But you can't just say everything that he did sucks without being realistic about the other very good players on this team.

And also - everyone gets so fucking butthurt over Gettleman like they can't actually admit that he drafted some potentially great players.

I can say that he was a bad GM but nailed some picks. You and others don't seem to be able to reach that conclusion - mostly because everyone was so dug in on him that they failed to be patient with Thomas and Barkley in particular.

And Jones is not done with this team yet by the way.

right, and our own fans said Thomas was terrible and Barkley was terrible. Two of the very best players in all of football right now.

So...yeah.

you guys defending him for picks like Barkley are wrong.

In hindsight, Barkley WAS the wrong pick for this team at that moment in time. They offers to trade down and Gettleman wouldn't even pick up the phone.

So even the "good picks" you are referencing are not even legit.

a super bowl winning GM is anywhere close to as bad as DG, probably the worst performing GM by the record in our history is beyond me.

You can't chalk up Jones or Barkley as good picks. Barkley he openly mocked analytics when he picked him when the positional value argument he spat in the face of is mainly built on durability concerns as well as the very real need to split carries and therefore resources amongst RBs for them to be effective and available. Jones was the 6th pick in the draft and getting a QB to perform on their rookie deal is about the most important thing in the modern era. These are F grades, you don't grade a GM on if a player has talent you grade them on the value they provide and if the team can win around them.

Thomas is a great pick but the 5 first round picks he made 3/5 of them were bad to total disasters in Toney. Lawrence is an adequate pick. McKinney is the only non-first round pick to really speak of and with all the picks he had at the top of rounds that again is a horrible yield not "500." Drafting was his best thing and he did not have an "eye for talent" due to all the horrible talent he brought in overall.

fans on this board are not able to actually have a nuanced conversation about Gettleman, and that's unfortunate.

He was a bad general manager. Fact. Couldn't pick a coach. Fact. Couldn't identify good free agents, except for basically 1 guy, fact.

But he drafted top end talent that could be the reason we get it turned around. Fact.

In comment 15847312 ryanmkeane said:

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eric, the Golladay signing is a disaster. Everyone on earth can see that. But you can't just say everything that he did sucks without being realistic about the other very good players on this team. And also - everyone gets so fucking butthurt over Gettleman like they can't actually admit that he drafted some potentially great players. I can say that he was a bad GM but nailed some picks. You and others don't seem to be able to reach that conclusion - mostly because everyone was so dug in on him that they failed to be patient with Thomas and Barkley in particular. And Jones is not done with this team yet by the way.

Wow... just wow.

I can't...

Some of you guys are just lost causes.

nope, Saquon Barkley was a good draft pick. The fact that he couldn't get the OL right and other stuff doesn't really matter to me.

Barkley is all world, as we are seeing this year. He was a good pick.

Eric - what is wrong with saying Gettleman was a terrible general manager but he picked some really good players at the top of the draft?

Can you admit that? Or are you just so obtuse to that being possibly true?

In comment 15847275 ryanmkeane said:

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he was bad, but it is very weird to me that fans of this team just can't admit that he may have ended up making some really, really good draft picks that can be cornerstones for the team moving forward

Yes that's great, but that's somewhat like defending Mitch Trubisky by showing highlights of each of his touchdown passes. Not even Dave Gettleman is bad enough to whiff on every single top ten draft pick.

Thomas - maybe the best LT in football
Lawrence - playing at an all pro level this year
McKinney - pro bowl safety
Barkley - maybe the best offensive weapon in the game

These are Gettleman draft picks, or did someone else draft them?

you guys think i'm trying to defend Gettleman. I'm not. I'm actually trying to see if you can admit that these players are all very legit. And you still can't do it.

In comment 15847191 bluepepper said:

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we were picking top 6 in every round. You or I could have gotten some good players out of that.

Nope, wrong again. Everyone was screaming for Becton. Gettleman took the other guy.

In any case, those players represent pick 2, pick 4, pick 17, and whatever McKinney was.

I should hope they got those right. Those are supposed to be the ones you have to get right.

McKinney was a 2nd round pick

In comment 15847226 Greg from LI said:

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...and not once, not for one lousy week, were the Giants ever over .500.

Over .500! How about not once did the team reach .500. How about the best he did was 2 games below .500.

Is just your way of sidestepping the fact that he was a horrible GM overall. The results are in and those supportive of him until the end are demonstrably wrong.

In comment 15847335 ryanmkeane said:

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In comment 15847191 bluepepper said: Quote: we were picking top 6 in every round. You or I could have gotten some good players out of that. Nope, wrong again. Everyone was screaming for Becton. Gettleman took the other guy.

Don't forget Haskins, Darnold and Rosen.

anyone that isn't enjoying this year from Barkley as an elite talent is crazy.

That doesn't mean he was worth the 2nd pick in the draft, especially because the VERY reason RBs don't get drafted that high is durability concerns.

The #2 pick in the draft should be one of the people leading your team into the playoffs on their rookie deal. Or at the very least making an impact in the majority of their games on that deal.

With injuries and healing can you even say Barkley has been an impact player in 1/3rd of his games? Definitely short of half. That is not good for the #2 pick.

And to think Barkley isn't without risk now is to fail at the very same analysis DG did in his rookie year. He could absolutely slow down our rebuild by getting a fat longer term deal and having another injury.

The NFL isn't just about "an eye for talent" it's about building a team that can win and that is more about handling resources efficiently than naming 8 players in 4 years you got right (debatably)

Dave Gettleman deserved to be fired based on the fact that he is ultimately responsible for the roster. I don’t think he’s the only one responsible for the sad state of the roster. The entire Mara clan had their hands deeply in it. John, Chris and Tim are very involved in all coaching and personnel decisions.
Take a look back at when Gettleman was director of pro personnel and Reese was College Scouting under Accorsi. He was involved with the scouting and signing many players who were instrumental in our success…
Just a few names…Kerry Collins, Plaxico Burress, Antonio Pierce, Antrel Rolle, Kareem McKenzie, Jeff Feagles Sean O’Hara, Lawrence Tynes, Derrick Ward, Chris Canty and the list goes on.
When he accepted the GM job, I believe he promised he could win with Eli and tried to build a team based on Eli as the QB for the next 4 years or so. I think colllectively the management made very poor coaching decisions and that’s not all on Dave. Changing coaching staffs always turns a roster over due to different philosophies and physical preferences.
For me the bottom line on Gettleman was at least a decent personnel guy who was in a situation he wasn’t equipped for.
He gets far too much blame for the state of the team.

In comment 15847312 ryanmkeane said:

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eric, the Golladay signing is a disaster. Everyone on earth can see that. But you can't just say everything that he did sucks without being realistic about the other very good players on this team. And also - everyone gets so fucking butthurt over Gettleman like they can't actually admit that he drafted some potentially great players. I can say that he was a bad GM but nailed some picks. You and others don't seem to be able to reach that conclusion - mostly because everyone was so dug in on him that they failed to be patient with Thomas and Barkley in particular. And Jones is not done with this team yet by the way.

Spot on!

The Gettleman hate runs deep…past the point of being able to be objective about players he drafted.

The next time we actually get a clear cut franchise QB with two SB MVP we don't blow it. These guys are a little tough to find. Sometimes you may wait a decade if not decades to find another. History shows this.

Then if we draft a QB we do a better job of doing everything possible to best support him to reach his potential and try to maximize his rookie contract.

I'll take that.

In comment 15847323 ryanmkeane said:

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nope, Saquon Barkley was a good draft pick. The fact that he couldn't get the OL right and other stuff doesn't really matter to me. Barkley is all world, as we are seeing this year. He was a good pick.

He was not a good pick. He did not get enough value out of overall 2nd pick in the draft. Fact.

Second, his QB taken at 6 didn't get his option picked up. If he is not here next year, that is another premium pick for which he did not get value. So yes, if you want to give him credit for Thomas, you also have to acknowledge that he is so bad at the margins this team had a competitive disadvantage. You also have to acknowledge that he was picking near the top of every draft.

Won four…..what did DG deliver? Stunatz. That is why he is gone…..and no other franchise scooped him up, and being scooped up is a good analogy for his talent.

in the post-Millen years were all like: "Everyone laughs at Matt Millen but what about Cliff Avril and Calvin Johnson??!"

all of these players that are now assets, basically coming into their own this year, would they be on the same path if they were being coached by a Gettleman/Mara hore/staff?

It takes a special GM to pay so much for so little production. The team hit on a few picks, not nearly as many as they should have given the draft capital they had. He screwed this years pooch with the Bradberry extension that freed money for Golladay/Jackson and then paid for those guys with this years money. He kicked the can down the road when he knew he wouldn't be present for the financial reckoning, and its not like he sold out the cap to field a good team. Plus, he's an unlikable, misogynistic prick.

Was he as bad as Matt Millen, I don't think so but I do think Millen enjoys having some company in the worst ever conversation.

"Barkley is a cornerstone" and "Barkley was a good pick" narrative is purely the result of one month of good play from him. That is it. No one except perhaps the biggest homer shills in the world were making these assertions a month ago. Can he stay healthy and perform like this for the entire season before everyone jumps back on the bandwagon? Giants fans are such cheap dates.

In comment 15847357 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

anyone that isn't enjoying this year from Barkley as an elite talent is crazy. That doesn't mean he was worth the 2nd pick in the draft, especially because the VERY reason RBs don't get drafted that high is durability concerns. The #2 pick in the draft should be one of the people leading your team into the playoffs on their rookie deal. Or at the very least making an impact in the majority of their games on that deal. With injuries and healing can you even say Barkley has been an impact player in 1/3rd of his games? Definitely short of half. That is not good for the #2 pick. And to think Barkley isn't without risk now is to fail at the very same analysis DG did in his rookie year. He could absolutely slow down our rebuild by getting a fat longer term deal and having another injury. The NFL isn't just about "an eye for talent" it's about building a team that can win and that is more about handling resources efficiently than naming 8 players in 4 years you got right (debatably)

Very well stated. Anyone touting the Barkley pick as a Gettleman success is missing the point. It was a pick of a quality player without maximizing the pick value. It should be considered a foremost failure of his tenure.

thank you

right. The two most important things a new GM has to do is get the HC and QB right. Getts made a mess of the HC situation ( I don’t want to hear about Mara’s interference- grow a pair). To me, the Jones situation epitomizes his incompetence. He promised John, he would find Eli’s successor.
He personally scouted Herbert a bunch of times IN PERSON, so he correctly identified him as the perfect successor.
When JH went back to school, instead of telling Mara “let’s wait until next year and grab this guy”, he panicked. One of the scouts, Petit maybe, told him about Jones, someone he never saw play and hadn’t spent 2 minutes thinking about.
He goes to watch him at the Senior bowl- an EXHIBITION game, watches 2 series and proclaims himself to be “full blown in love”.
Then he puts the final nail in his own coffin when he’s on the clock, believes crap about someone else “trading up” for Jones and picks him at 6.

You can’t do a Worse job as a GM than this.

we're thinking of giving him credit at this point, in a 3-1 season, in which we have eeked out close wins with a bottom-of-the-barrel roster?

This asshole had the #2, #4, #6, #11, and #17 OVERALL picks in the draft during his 4-year tenure. I just went back and checked, and only 5 times in the last 50 YEARS has this team had picks that high (and only 3 other times having picks in the top 4--and here we had picks that high twice in his brief tenure!). So he damn well better have hit on some of them. Or turned them into a dynasty-building windfall.

No, I do not give Dave Gettleman credit for not winning a damn thing during his tenure and setting us back several years with horrible contracts and making a dysfunctional organization even worse (how the F was that even possible?)

Isn't how to do this.

It has absolutely been reported that Garrett was a big, big Thomas table-pounder. Judge was leading the recruitment effort big on Kadarious Toney and Kenny Golladay. Shurmur wanted DeAndre Baker.

You can argue that the GM can know better, or that he should listen to his head coaches, but these things are collaborative.

In comment 15847302 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 15847235 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said: Quote: In comment 15847173 rasbutant said: Quote: It's not good enough as a NFL GM. He wasn't batting .500. He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it. It will take years to clean up. The franchise had half a decade of failure before Gettleman showed up. Gettleman hardly wrecked the franchise. They were a terrible team before he showed up. They were a terrible team with him. He failed to improve them into a contender, yes. But they were not a good team before he was there. He took the mess Reese/Ross created and turned it into a dumpster fire. I can't even believe we are having this conversation. Absolutely amazing.

Yes, he took a franchise that was already ruined (and had been bad for the better half of a decade), and didn't improve it/made it worse. That is exactly my point. The thing I disagree with is the implication that he took over some franchise that had recent success. He took over a 3-13 team

..because it was apparent he was going to build a team from inside out, meaning a concentration the OL and DL.

He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure.

And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on.

As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately.

In comment 15847335 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 15847191 bluepepper said: Quote: we were picking top 6 in every round. You or I could have gotten some good players out of that. Nope, wrong again. Everyone was screaming for Becton. Gettleman took the other guy.

What the hell are you talking about? Nobody was screaming for Becton. It was Wirfs or Thomas. Do you guys just like hearing yourselves talk> Gettleman was literally the worst GM in this franchises history and now you want to pat him on the back for not getting EVERY draft pick wrong? How about wasting multiple picks to trade up for Baker? How about not hitting on ANY 3rd round picks? How about signing Shepard to a $10 Million a year contract when the guy never had a 1,000 yard season? How about Nate Solder and Kenny Golladay? How about drafting a RB with the 2nd overall pick when the entire team was a dumpster fire? How about Omameh, Bobby Hart, and the rest of the trash that he brought in for the O Line? How about draft Toney in the 1st round who had character concerns but overlooking Parsons in the same draft because of character concerns? Let take a look at the positions on this team that he left in a dumpster fire:

QB - no clear franchise QB
WR - Dumpster fire
TE - Dumpster fire
OL - Dumpster fire besides 1 pick he actually got right
CB - Dumpster fire
LB - Dumpster fire

But yeah. He did a great job. Can't believe they fired him. Good call.

He couldn't carry Jerry Reese's jockstrap if he had two additional hands.

We were fucked before he showed up and he miraculously made it worst. The coaches he hired, the FAs who never panned out, and the botched drafting of talent lies squarely on him and our W-L record reflected that. HE SUCKED!

Why do we keep resurrecting this dead horse only to put it out of it's misery...

In comment 15847320 Eric from BBI said:

Quote:

In comment 15847312 ryanmkeane said: Quote: eric, the Golladay signing is a disaster. Everyone on earth can see that. But you can't just say everything that he did sucks without being realistic about the other very good players on this team. And also - everyone gets so fucking butthurt over Gettleman like they can't actually admit that he drafted some potentially great players. I can say that he was a bad GM but nailed some picks. You and others don't seem to be able to reach that conclusion - mostly because everyone was so dug in on him that they failed to be patient with Thomas and Barkley in particular. And Jones is not done with this team yet by the way. Wow... just wow. I can't... Some of you guys are just lost causes.

Just the other day, I was re-reading the epic jtgiants meltdown thread from a few years ago (it's still amusing, I can't help it). Ryan's defense of DG feels like it could reach that level.

The players he drafted have talent..they evidentely just were not motivated coached right by Judge.

Daboll and Wink turned vinegar into wine with DG drafted players this year.

...By ignoring the enormous mountain of crap he did to focus on few good things he did?

Some of you sons of bitches just hate to admit you are wrong.

In comment 15847317 NoGainDayne said:

Quote:

a super bowl winning GM is anywhere close to as bad as DG, probably the worst performing GM by the record in our history is beyond me. You can't chalk up Jones or Barkley as good picks. Barkley he openly mocked analytics when he picked him when the positional value argument he spat in the face of is mainly built on durability concerns as well as the very real need to split carries and therefore resources amongst RBs for them to be effective and available. Jones was the 6th pick in the draft and getting a QB to perform on their rookie deal is about the most important thing in the modern era. These are F grades, you don't grade a GM on if a player has talent you grade them on the value they provide and if the team can win around them. Thomas is a great pick but the 5 first round picks he made 3/5 of them were bad to total disasters in Toney. Lawrence is an adequate pick. McKinney is the only non-first round pick to really speak of and with all the picks he had at the top of rounds that again is a horrible yield not "500." Drafting was his best thing and he did not have an "eye for talent" due to all the horrible talent he brought in overall.

Reese deserves plenty of credit for the 2 Super Bowl championships, but the last 5 years he was there, the Giants had one winning season and ended in a 3-13 season. There is a reason he was fired. I don't think anyone here has said he is worse than Gettleman. The Giants made the right choice in moving on from Reese, but obviously made the wrong choice in picking the replacement

In comment 15847415 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 15847317 NoGainDayne said: Quote: a super bowl winning GM is anywhere close to as bad as DG, probably the worst performing GM by the record in our history is beyond me. You can't chalk up Jones or Barkley as good picks. Barkley he openly mocked analytics when he picked him when the positional value argument he spat in the face of is mainly built on durability concerns as well as the very real need to split carries and therefore resources amongst RBs for them to be effective and available. Jones was the 6th pick in the draft and getting a QB to perform on their rookie deal is about the most important thing in the modern era. These are F grades, you don't grade a GM on if a player has talent you grade them on the value they provide and if the team can win around them. Thomas is a great pick but the 5 first round picks he made 3/5 of them were bad to total disasters in Toney. Lawrence is an adequate pick. McKinney is the only non-first round pick to really speak of and with all the picks he had at the top of rounds that again is a horrible yield not "500." Drafting was his best thing and he did not have an "eye for talent" due to all the horrible talent he brought in overall. Reese deserves plenty of credit for the 2 Super Bowl championships, but the last 5 years he was there, the Giants had one winning season and ended in a 3-13 season. There is a reason he was fired. I don't think anyone here has said he is worse than Gettleman. The Giants made the right choice in moving on from Reese, but obviously made the wrong choice in picking the replacement

They should've fired Gettleman...

In comment 15847326 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

Thomas - maybe the best LT in football Lawrence - playing at an all pro level this year McKinney - pro bowl safety Barkley - maybe the best offensive weapon in the game These are Gettleman draft picks, or did someone else draft them?

I know it's hindsight, but he could have traded the #2 pick probably and selected Josh Allen. Or just selected Josh Allen period.

That was the failing moment.

I love Barkley, super excited he's doing so well but he's not best offensive weapon IMO.

In comment 15847400 BillKo said:

Quote:

..because it was apparent he was going to build a team from inside out, meaning a concentration the OL and DL. He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure. And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on. As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately.

Would Josh Allen be what he is if he was drafted by the Giants? I'm not so sure.

if DG dressed better, had a nicer haircut bbi would be swooning over him like Schoen.

That's really the level of thinking you get with most people.

and then watched the team shit the bed? Did that not happen? What year is this again?

that belong on his greatest hits compilation that some are bound to be forgotten. For example, what of all the credible claims that he could have traded Evan Engram for a 2nd or even 1st-day draft pick? What about Jonathan Stewart -- not just the contract, but the claim that he "hasn't lost a single step?"

but I didn't think that meant Andy in Boston and some of the other DG Fan Club members on this thread would go all-in.

Gettleman was a disaster from the moment he walked in the door in Dec 2017 until the moment he was "retired" in late 2021. Parse up his transactions, make pros/cons of his decisions, talk about how not all GMs bat a thousand...all wastes of time. He was a disaster, through and through.

The only true thing he gave us was 4 years of laughs from having to listen & watch this bumbling, incompetent fool arrogantly describe that he knew what he was doing during his media days and pressers. Like this one...




or this one...



or this one...

In comment 15847420 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 15847400 BillKo said: Quote: ..because it was apparent he was going to build a team from inside out, meaning a concentration the OL and DL. He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure. And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on. As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately. Would Josh Allen be what he is if he was drafted by the Giants? I'm not so sure.

Allen, at times, looks like a man playing with boys. You don't see QBs do what he does (now, he may get hurt! lol)....

I see your point, but the talent level is so great I'd have to assume yes or very close to that.

Of course we will never know but if we could go back no one would deny that selection.

The extent to which he was awful is subjective but the consistently bad results over a fair sample size suggest he was objectively some degree of awful.

I personally think he was the worst GM in franchise history and one of the worst GMs in NFL history, so that's where I stand on the subjective scale. The fact that he hit a few singles with more at bats than every single one of his competitors doesn't change that. And yes, all those players mentioned are singles (maybe even misses), not a single home run. Maybe Andrew Thomas? But even that pick had a 75% shot of connecting, with Becton being the lone miss in that class - considering that, through his own ineptitude, we were basically married to OT with that pick and lucked into a strong class.

In comment 15847429 BillKo said:

Quote:

In comment 15847420 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15847400 BillKo said: Quote: ..because it was apparent he was going to build a team from inside out, meaning a concentration the OL and DL. He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure. And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on. As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately. Would Josh Allen be what he is if he was drafted by the Giants? I'm not so sure. Allen, at times, looks like a man playing with boys. You don't see QBs do what he does (now, he may get hurt! lol).... I see your point, but the talent level is so great I'd have to assume yes or very close to that. Of course we will never know but if we could go back no one would deny that selection.

Allen struggled quite a bit his first year. Completed under 53% of his passes and had more INT than passing TDs. Sure he has talent. That was never the issue. But he also had good coaching and a front office that gave him a competent OL (and Diggs). I'm not so sure what he would have developed into had the Giants drafted him.

I was furious when they hired him. He hired two AWFUL head coaches. Mismanaged the salary cap worse than nearly any GM I've ever seen. The players listed are being coached up by good coaches now. DG had a hand in hiring two HC's who in turn hired poor coaches who were coaching these same players.

In comment 15847415 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 15847317 NoGainDayne said: Quote: a super bowl winning GM is anywhere close to as bad as DG, probably the worst performing GM by the record in our history is beyond me. You can't chalk up Jones or Barkley as good picks. Barkley he openly mocked analytics when he picked him when the positional value argument he spat in the face of is mainly built on durability concerns as well as the very real need to split carries and therefore resources amongst RBs for them to be effective and available. Jones was the 6th pick in the draft and getting a QB to perform on their rookie deal is about the most important thing in the modern era. These are F grades, you don't grade a GM on if a player has talent you grade them on the value they provide and if the team can win around them. Thomas is a great pick but the 5 first round picks he made 3/5 of them were bad to total disasters in Toney. Lawrence is an adequate pick. McKinney is the only non-first round pick to really speak of and with all the picks he had at the top of rounds that again is a horrible yield not "500." Drafting was his best thing and he did not have an "eye for talent" due to all the horrible talent he brought in overall. Reese deserves plenty of credit for the 2 Super Bowl championships, but the last 5 years he was there, the Giants had one winning season and ended in a 3-13 season. There is a reason he was fired. I don't think anyone here has said he is worse than Gettleman. The Giants made the right choice in moving on from Reese, but obviously made the wrong choice in picking the replacement

Totally agree. Reese got into a habit of reaching on players and ignoring cornerstone positions. He also kept trying to get the most out of Eli like a tube of toothpaste but indirectly hurt him instead of helping him IMO.

Was time to move on but DG turned out to be a huge mistake that cost us years.

Of course, now we appear to have good people in place. Maybe it works out for the best.

In comment 15847434 KDavies said:

Quote:

In comment 15847429 BillKo said: Quote: In comment 15847420 KDavies said: Quote: In comment 15847400 BillKo said: Quote: ..because it was apparent he was going to build a team from inside out, meaning a concentration the OL and DL. He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure. And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on. As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately. Would Josh Allen be what he is if he was drafted by the Giants? I'm not so sure. Allen, at times, looks like a man playing with boys. You don't see QBs do what he does (now, he may get hurt! lol).... I see your point, but the talent level is so great I'd have to assume yes or very close to that. Of course we will never know but if we could go back no one would deny that selection. Allen struggled quite a bit his first year. Completed under 53% of his passes and had more INT than passing TDs. Sure he has talent. That was never the issue. But he also had good coaching and a front office that gave him a competent OL (and Diggs). I'm not so sure what he would have developed into had the Giants drafted him.

Easy question, go back to 2018 and have the #2 pick, who would you pick?

Take everything into consideration.

he was still a historically very poor GM for NYG, there's no way to rescue it. That's like saying he nailed 5% or 10% of his job here ...

In comment 15847411 MartyNJ1969 said:

Quote:

The players he drafted have talent..they evidentely just were not motivated coached right by Judge. Daboll and Wink turned vinegar into wine with DG drafted players this year.

I think you need to look at the roster and see how many new players there are.

In comment 15847387 eugibs said:

Quote:

"Barkley is a cornerstone" and "Barkley was a good pick" narrative is purely the result of one month of good play from him. That is it. No one except perhaps the biggest homer shills in the world were making these assertions a month ago. Can he stay healthy and perform like this for the entire season before everyone jumps back on the bandwagon? Giants fans are such cheap dates.

ah, so i guess Barkley didn't play in 2018 or 2019?

was SO BAD that it forced the Mara family to do something they have never voluntarily done before and that was hire a GM from outside their organization.

Even Mara finally figured it out.

And that's saying something.

that every NFL team has a few good players, even the absolute worst of the worst. Having 5-10 good players is still an empty cupboard, unless one is a great young QB. If he left us Herbert, different story.

...was in 2019, when he expected Herbert to come out who he really liked.

That didn't happen and he bit on DJ. Bad luck turned into reaching.

His thinking was maybe he wouldn't have a shot at Herbert in 2020...but it's these decisions that make or break a GM.

The primary roles of a GM:

1) Minimize the distractions top down
2) Hire a strong, competent head coach
3) Build a strong pro and college scouting department
4) High hit rate in the top 2 rounds, medium hit rate after
5) High hit rate on 10M+ AAV veterans, medium hit rate after

= Win games and go to the playoffs

I'd say Gettleman did an OK job on number 4, and an awful job at the other 4.

In comment 15847460 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

In comment 15847387 eugibs said: Quote: "Barkley is a cornerstone" and "Barkley was a good pick" narrative is purely the result of one month of good play from him. That is it. No one except perhaps the biggest homer shills in the world were making these assertions a month ago. Can he stay healthy and perform like this for the entire season before everyone jumps back on the bandwagon? Giants fans are such cheap dates. ah, so i guess Barkley didn't play in 2018 or 2019?

Ahh, so I guess a month ago you thought Barkley was one of the best players in the league, a cornerstone for the future, and a successful draft pick? Come on. Every reasonable fan understands that Barkley is in a “show me” year, and if you have already decided after 4 games that he has shown you, then you’re a cheap date.

Normally someone would have to try to be that bad. It's like he was paid off by Jerry Jones to tank the organization.

He was very good for the Giants in his role under Reese, and there was reason at the time of his hiring to believe that he would have success. But either the role was too big for him, he got too full of himself, or time passed him by--probably all three.

It's easy to pick up a couple of decent players when you're picking top 5 of every draft. And it's nice that Saquon is back to his old self, but if he hadn't mismanaged the roster so badly the team wouldn't need to put everything on his back.

In a 16-game schedule, the Giants had only finished with four wins or fewer three times before Gettleman became GM--Parcell's first year, McAdoo's second year, and Fassel's last year. In a four-year span, Gettleman did it twice, with two different coaches. The second time, it was on a 17-game schedule. The other two seasons were five and six wins. And if you need to remember how godawful this team was, remember that Gettleman and Mara did a victory lap talking about how they got the right coach in Judge after he managed a whopping six wins.

The argument against the Barkley pick was and will always be the opportunity cost. A good barometer of the value of a player picked is the guaranteed money on the second contract. It factors in the player's abilities and positional value. The market is literally telling you the player's value. Optimistically, Barkley will see 25-30m guaranteed? And that's only if he maintains this pace and cements himself as one of the best RBs in football. So that's still a relatively big if. Great RB and a player any team would be happy to have.

Now, examine the alternative.

Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson will see 4x+ that in guaranteed money (8-10x that if Lamar gets his way). Barkley won't even be top 5 among non-QBs in 2nd contract guarantee money when the dust settles. Off the top of my head Nelson, James and Ward are over. Fitzpatrick, Landry, Sutton, O'Niel, Warner, Chubb, etc I'm too lazy to look up. He might not even be top 10 non-QB. And he was the 2nd overall pick Add in the fact that it's been all but confirmed that Denver wanted to trade up so the cumulative value of those picks adding up to more than 25-30m guarantees on second contracts is another layer. Gettleman's handling of the Barkley pick was a disaster.

I understand that breaking this down is a fool's errand to an extent, so if your instinct is to say "what about Rosen and Darnold" then you just don't get it.

In comment 15847319 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

fans on this board are not able to actually have a nuanced conversation about Gettleman, and that's unfortunate. He was a bad general manager. Fact. Couldn't pick a coach. Fact. Couldn't identify good free agents, except for basically 1 guy, fact. But he drafted top end talent that could be the reason we get it turned around. Fact.

Why do you love Dave so much?

Just look how much different this team looks through four weeks. He was a cancer to this franchise.

Every GM who picks in the top part of every round for four years is going to hit on some of their picks. Even Matt Millen drafted Calvin Johnson

In comment 15847452 JonC said:

Quote:

he was still a historically very poor GM for NYG, there's no way to rescue it. That's like saying he nailed 5% or 10% of his job here ...

Well said and much more succinct than what I was about to write.

you need to take a class in reading comprehension and get your head out of your ass, quite frankly.

It is you and other posters who can't separate me saying "Gettleman picked some great players" and "he was also a terrible GM."

You guys are so dug in on your opinion of Jones (and Barkley until this season) that is affected your ability to look at other players on the roster as a positive.

Get this through your skull: I have said, and I am saying now, that Gettleman was a really bad GM.

But I will also say, is that he absolutely nailed some top end talent which will be a key reason the team turns it around.

Some of you posters that are saying "the roster is absolutely horrible" seem to be forgetting the fact that we likely have 3 All Pros on the team, as well as some decent football players who are playing way better because of better coaching.

In comment 15847545 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

you need to take a class in reading comprehension and get your head out of your ass, quite frankly. It is you and other posters who can't separate me saying "Gettleman picked some great players" and "he was also a terrible GM." You guys are so dug in on your opinion of Jones (and Barkley until this season) that is affected your ability to look at other players on the roster as a positive. Get this through your skull: I have said, and I am saying now, that Gettleman was a really bad GM. But I will also say, is that he absolutely nailed some top end talent which will be a key reason the team turns it around. Some of you posters that are saying "the roster is absolutely horrible" seem to be forgetting the fact that we likely have 3 All Pros on the team, as well as some decent football players who are playing way better because of better coaching.

Your head was in your ass the other day with your “Gettleman wasn’t that bad thread” the other day. Who the fuck cares about giving him credit about hitting on a handful of good players? You don’t even know which of those players he actually wanted and who he was talked into by the coaching staff. How do you know he didn’t want Becton over Thomas and was talked out of it?

Your eagerness to give Dave credit is weird. No GM misses on every move they make. Vikings fans aren’t rushing to give Spielman credit for drafting Jefferson.
A blind monkey could pick random names out of a hat picking top 10 every year and hit on some picks.

In comment 15847545 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

you need to take a class in reading comprehension and get your head out of your ass, quite frankly. It is you and other posters who can't separate me saying "Gettleman picked some great players" and "he was also a terrible GM." You guys are so dug in on your opinion of Jones (and Barkley until this season) that is affected your ability to look at other players on the roster as a positive. Get this through your skull: I have said, and I am saying now, that Gettleman was a really bad GM. But I will also say, is that he absolutely nailed some top end talent which will be a key reason the team turns it around. Some of you posters that are saying "the roster is absolutely horrible" seem to be forgetting the fact that we likely have 3 All Pros on the team, as well as some decent football players who are playing way better because of better coaching.

And you don't get that it doesn't matter. If a GM's job was "have a couple good players that he used top picks on," great, he did his job. In addition, the resources he used on one of the players you keep pointing to (Barkley) would have been better spent elsewhere. So sorry, no credit there either.

In comment 15847545 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

you need to take a class in reading comprehension and get your head out of your ass, quite frankly. It is you and other posters who can't separate me saying "Gettleman picked some great players" and "he was also a terrible GM." You guys are so dug in on your opinion of Jones (and Barkley until this season) that is affected your ability to look at other players on the roster as a positive. Get this through your skull: I have said, and I am saying now, that Gettleman was a really bad GM. But I will also say, is that he absolutely nailed some top end talent which will be a key reason the team turns it around. Some of you posters that are saying "the roster is absolutely horrible" seem to be forgetting the fact that we likely have 3 All Pros on the team, as well as some decent football players who are playing way better because of better coaching.

Are you FMiC's alter ego?

LOL, got it. Hey, who knows if Belichick even wanted Tom Brady? How can you ever prove it?

Just shut the fuck up already man. If you're response to Gettleman picking a good player is "well, who knows if he even wanted him?" then you are just not a serious person.

oh ok, so everyone gives credit to Schoen for picking Thibodeaux and Neal. I guess....any GM could have done that right? So if they turn out to be really good...I guess you won't give him credit for those players? Just to confirm - that is what you are saying right?

In comment 15847461 Eric from BBI said:

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was SO BAD that it forced the Mara family to do something they have never voluntarily done before and that was hire a GM from outside their organization. Even Mara finally figured it out. And that's saying something.

This, times 1000

i was telling every single poster on this message board to wait it out on Andrew Thomas and that Barkley would return to form.

Everyone laughed at me and said I was a Gettleman schill.

In comment 15847563 ryanmkeane said:

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LOL, got it. Hey, who knows if Belichick even wanted Tom Brady? How can you ever prove it? Just shut the fuck up already man. If your response to Gettleman picking a good player is "well, who knows if he even wanted him?" then you are just not a serious person.

Ah yes Dave Gettleman has the same pull in organization as Dave Gettleman. You are an unserious loser.

In comment 15847571 ryanmkeane said:

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i was telling every single poster on this message board to wait it out on Andrew Thomas and that Barkley would return to form. Everyone laughed at me and said I was a Gettleman schill.

I meant to circle back and congratulate you on such a bold prediction.

Well done.

In comment 15847571 ryanmkeane said:

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i was telling every single poster on this message board to wait it out on Andrew Thomas and that Barkley would return to form. Everyone laughed at me and said I was a Gettleman schill.

That’s the whole point. Your victory dance for Barkley is premature and it is based on 4 games, like I said.

In comment 15847178 Andy in Boston said:

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In comment 15847173 rasbutant said: Quote: It's not good enough as a NFL GM. I know....but I do think batting .500 is truly what most NFL GM's do. I think Howie Roseman is the best.

Getting it right 50% of the time can still destroy the franchise by missing at the most important positions on the field.... And also the most expensive contracts putting us in cap hell. This is exactly what we are dealing with now n

In comment 15847565 ryanmkeane said:

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oh ok, so everyone gives credit to Schoen for picking Thibodeaux and Neal. I guess....any GM could have done that right? So if they turn out to be really good...I guess you won't give him credit for those players? Just to confirm - that is what you are saying right?

I cant speak for everyone, but picking names from the cream of the crop top of the draft is not exactly something that GMs struggle with. What did DG say about Barkley? My mother could have scouted him?

Kayvon had been a hot prospect since the 2021 college season.

The lesson really is not to throw roses at GMs. See how that class works out in 3 years when it's time to pay them.

You can talk about shoene based on things he's done like the head coach, like managing the significant challenge of having to field a roster with limited resources and cap hardship. The risks he does or doesn't take. But not "he had the vision to pick the #1 or #2 edge rusher and tackle in the draft".

In comment 15847565 ryanmkeane said:

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oh ok, so everyone gives credit to Schoen for picking Thibodeaux and Neal. I guess....any GM could have done that right? So if they turn out to be really good...I guess you won't give him credit for those players? Just to confirm - that is what you are saying right?

Yes, if those two players turn into what people rightfully expect top 10 picks to turn into, there absolutely is a grading curve applied. No GM should be celebrated that much for their picks at the top of the draft. It's their overall body of work, including roster construction that complements those top-of-the-draft players, salary cap management that maximizes the value of having those top-of-the-draft players during their cheapest years, and - ultimately, more than anything - the win/loss record that results from building your team around those top-of-the-draft players that matters.

The fact that DG may have hit on a few players at the top of the draft is nearly meaningless when you consider the roster he built to surround them and the scorched earth he left behind for our salary cap.

He sucked. I am very sorry he got cancer, I think it affected him greatly. His performance was poor but I wish him the best and hope his life is long.

In comment 15847291 ryanmkeane said:

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for example, he drafted Andrew Thomas when basically everyone on this board and in the media said that was the wrong move amongst the available tackles. Not only was it the right move, but Thomas is playing like the best left tackle in football at the age of 23. The coaching selections and free agency moves were a disaster. But he may have selected the NFL's best offensive weapon and one of the game's best left tackles. And yet, most fans just don't want to admit that to be true.

Most people seemed to like the pick.
Giants Draft Thomas - ( New Window )

I thought the OP itself was kind of a joke.

But that some actually want to debate it, and hard, is eye-rolling...

That’s what I thought of that fucking guy.

my comments around Thomas are when he started playing games. First half of 2020 - posters were calling him a flat out bust, a terrible pick, and everyone was saying they wanted Becton and we should have picked Becton, or Wirfs for that matter.

Becton has to play right tackle because of his weight and can't play a game without getting injured.

So you were the only Thomas fan?

In comment 15847644 ryanmkeane said:

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my comments around Thomas are when he started playing games. First half of 2020 - posters were calling him a flat out bust, a terrible pick, and everyone was saying they wanted Becton and we should have picked Becton, or Wirfs for that matter. Becton has to play right tackle because of his weight and can't play a game without getting injured.

Just a weird victory lap.

Do you want BBI to pull up every example of every player that you wanted to wait and see how it played out, only to see that litany of players ultimately flame out, one after another?

You say the same thing about every fucking player. You're bound to be right eventually, just like Gettleman himself. That's probably why you're one of his few remaining fans.

it seems right now that Schoen nailed the head coach, who also nailed his assistant coaching hires. To me that is more important than who the GM drafts.

Daboll hired a modern up and coming OC and a veteran DC, both of which seem to be in their lane and very good at it.

its no coincidence that someone like Ximines actually looks like a NFL player now that he has a better defensive coordinator.

No coincidence that Love looks like a starting NFL player now that he has a better coordinator.

In comment 15847616 BrettNYG10 said:

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In comment 15847291 ryanmkeane said: Quote: for example, he drafted Andrew Thomas when basically everyone on this board and in the media said that was the wrong move amongst the available tackles. Not only was it the right move, but Thomas is playing like the best left tackle in football at the age of 23. The coaching selections and free agency moves were a disaster. But he may have selected the NFL's best offensive weapon and one of the game's best left tackles. And yet, most fans just don't want to admit that to be true. Most people seemed to like the pick. Giants Draft Thomas - ( New Window )

Winner winner chicken dinner, yay me!

Quote:

Fucking awesome pick sb from NYT Forum : 4/23/2020 9:29 pm : link So happy

But something that isn't being brought up... as best I can tell anyway...

When you have years of opportunities to draft college football players, of course all of them aren't going to suck. If you draft a player projected to be 1st round or 2nd round talent, it doesn't matter if you arrived at that pick by putting on a blindfold and throwing a dart at the draft board.

So yeah, he drafted McKinney. He's a good football player. It doesn't mean he had some astute foresight in drafting him. Yes, I acknowledge that Gettleman drafted some good football players. But honestly? It almost doesn't matter. The draft is just the most visible moment for a general manager, but it's only one part of the job.

He's the worst GM in the history of the franchise. If you want to focus on the fact that some of the players he drafted don't suck, go ahead. To me, that's like finding a single pair of jeans that fit at Walmart and telling people ya know, Walmart actually has some nice stuff.

Matt Millen drafted Shaun Rogers and Calvin Johnson, signed Dre Bly. He still sucked. He drafted some other Pro Bowlers too.

Thomas and Barkley are two of my favorite players on the team. They have been superb this season. Gettleman still sucks.

Andrew Thomas looked really bad in big stretches his rookie year, and without all of the information, it was pretty reasonable to be concerned.

It turns out Thomas had a foot injury early on, which required surgery and materially impacted his play.

If there weren’t mitigating factors to explain his bad performance, and that’s who he really was — that would have been a disaster.

And you need to weight the decisions. He handed out arguably the two worst FA contracts in Giants history with one of those being arguably the worst in modern day history. He outbid himself on both price AND years for a guy he wanted to trade for until gramps had the keys taken away from him by Judge.

Again, THE worst hire in Giants history, which dates back to 1925. THE worst. Yeah, he had a good pick here or there, but for every one of those...there were 10 horrific decisions. In all seriousness, I really believe you could have picked a random BBIer as GM instead of Gettleman & he does better.

However, he never built a team. He reminds me of Isiah Thomas during his Knick tenure. They both brought in some talented pieces, but in terms of eliminating distractions and building a winner it was a disaster.

Hit a 3-run homer for the Mets tonight.

He still blows chunks.