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thoughts on Gettleman

Andy in Boston : 10/5/2022 11:50 am
I'll admit....I liked him when they hired him....and was excited is 1st year...I thought he would do a really good job. Loved his old school demeanor, thoughts on football, approach. Then overtime realized he wasn't ready for modern football and he ended up really hurting the Giants. My biggest issues with him were the draft picks of Deandre Baker, Will Hernandez, possibly Kadarius Toney. And of course the Nate Solder and Golloday singings. The other gaffes, I think most GM's have. (Omameh, Jonathan Stewart, etc.)

What's interesting now, is the draft picks that are playing well or on the verge of playing well, seem to be his guys. And they could end up being the real cornerstones of the future.

Dexter Lawrence
Saquon Barkley
Xavier Mckinney
Azeez Ojulari
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Tae Crowder
possibly Daniel Jones

He also deserves credit for guys like:

Signing Adoree Jackson
signing Graham Gano.
discovering Nick Gates
trading for Leonard Williams, although his contract is inflated. Same with Bradberry.

Question is, what kind of legacy will Gettleman really have?

Again, I think he screwed up royally his last year....but he could end up being fairly average in terms of a GM grade.


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My  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/5/2022 11:53 am : link
God Giants fans... what happened to you?
RE: My  
Andy in Boston : 10/5/2022 11:54 am : link
In comment 15847169 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
God Giants fans... what happened to you?



Eric....I said he royally screwed up....and hurt the Giants.
batting .500 is good in baseball  
rasbutant : 10/5/2022 11:55 am : link
It's not good enough as a NFL GM.
His Performance as GM  
lax counsel : 10/5/2022 11:55 am : link
Should go down as an all time failure of any organization. He was horrible in overall management and did not maximize draft position in most year. The Giants are largely bereft of impact talent all over the field, and are somehow well over the Cap.

They have such little offensive talent, they are basically running a college offense from 1965.
Not sure if serious...  
Pork Chop : 10/5/2022 11:56 am : link
but the Kenny Golladay signing for above-market money to a middling WR that had no other suitors...that disqualifies any GM from being in the "average" conversation.

Other knockdowns:

* From Day 1, his stated goal was to get the OL in better shape, and it was in much worse condition when he left
* Resistance to using technology or analytics
* Shurmur, McAdoo and Judge hires
RE: batting .500 is good in baseball  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 10/5/2022 11:56 am : link
In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:
Quote:
It's not good enough as a NFL GM.


He wasn't batting .500.

He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it.

It will take years to clean up.

RE: batting .500 is good in baseball  
Andy in Boston : 10/5/2022 11:56 am : link
In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:
Quote:
It's not good enough as a NFL GM.



I know....but I do think batting .500 is truly what most NFL GM's do.

I think Howie Roseman is the best.
Average  
Mighty1 : 10/5/2022 11:57 am : link
Really?? Maaaaaybe he can get an average grade purely looking at his drafts but overall as a GM with FA signings, contracts, etc was piss poor.
RE: My  
ZogZerg : 10/5/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15847169 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
God Giants fans... what happened to you?


Good question.

FFS!
He's straight up the worst GM in the nearly 100 year history  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 10/5/2022 11:58 am : link
of the franchise. Arguably one of the worst GMs in the history of the league. An arrogant, out of touch and self entitled guy who got the job because of a lazy and nepotistic owner.

That's how I feel.

Ray Handley can be greeted with open arms compared to Gettleman.
If He Wad Average  
Samiam : 10/5/2022 11:58 am : link
He’d be 10x better than he was. Took a bad team and made it worse. Had a QB on a rookie contract and left his successor in cap hell. How is that average?
As Eric said  
viggie : 10/5/2022 11:59 am : link
If you don’t have enough cap space to release golladay, you destroyed the ability of this team to work. It’s gonna take schoen years to clean this mess up. Staff looks really good though.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 10/5/2022 12:00 pm : link
Worst hire in Giants history. Bar none.
RE: batting .500 is good in baseball  
Spiciest Memelord : 10/5/2022 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:
Quote:
It's not good enough as a NFL GM.


Huh? If you regularly draft two or three contributors every year you're on the plus side.
I don't get the need to defend the guy  
widmerseyebrow : 10/5/2022 12:00 pm : link
What he left behind was far worse than what he started with even with all the fortunate turnarounds in some of the players you mentioned (under a new coaching staff that he did not hire).
Ultimately the buck stops here  
Spiciest Memelord : 10/5/2022 12:02 pm : link
and the GM is responsible for the coaching hires, nominally.

But I think its pretty clear the owners interfere. Hell they continue to do it.
What GM misses ALL of their picks and signings?  
widmerseyebrow : 10/5/2022 12:02 pm : link
It would truly be remarkable, so cherry picking a few good players on a team that is in shambles on offense this year and likely next year is really reaching if you're trying to prove that he's "average."
3 of the 4 drafts  
bluepepper : 10/5/2022 12:02 pm : link
we were picking top 6 in every round. You or I could have gotten some good players out of that.
Run the ball. Stop the run. QB pressure. QB throw from the pocket.  
Lines of Scrimmage : 10/5/2022 12:03 pm : link
In looking at this it is a big fail. Some work off each other.

I agree he left some very nice pieces and his vision still has a meaningful place. The problem was the execution.

The really big one is the OL is still a problem. This makes him a much bigger failure imv.

The HC selections. That is very collaborative. I also think he had a mandate with Eli.

Good thing is at least JS has more of a young baseline than what Dave started with.
All one can say about DG in the positive...  
Racer : 10/5/2022 12:05 pm : link
...as a GM is that he was surpassed in his ineptitude recently by peers such as Ryan Pace who traded up for both Mitch Trubisky and Justin Fields, and Ryan Grigson who ruined Andrew Luck by subjecting him to 205MM artillery fire every pass play.

Had a decent career as a scout and NYG head of pro personnel. 'Manager' part of the General Manager role was elusive.
AT draft class  
Spiciest Memelord : 10/5/2022 12:05 pm : link
is shaping up like the best draft class in over a decade or two.
All it took  
eugibs : 10/5/2022 12:06 pm : link
Was a missed field goal in Tennessee and two ugly wins against 2 of the worst 5 teams in the NFL and here we are already with a positive retrospective on the Dave Gettleman era. You’re right, though. His fingerprints are all over this juggernaut roster. FMiC should come back and take a bow.
RE: RE: batting .500 is good in baseball  
rasbutant : 10/5/2022 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15847187 Spiciest Memelord said:
Quote:
In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:


Quote:


It's not good enough as a NFL GM.



Huh? If you regularly draft two or three contributors every year you're on the plus side.


I didn't expect anyone to do the math. Point is, yes he hit on some things, but man when he missed he really missed. Every GM is going to have some hits and some misses. He had way too many misses (big miss too) then he did hits.
I'm not going to kill Getts for Will Hernandez  
GiantBlue : 10/5/2022 12:07 pm : link
When we drafted him first overall in the second round, every pundit from the Boston Globe to the Los Angeles Times felt we had solved our LG position for 12 years. He was highly heralded.

When he signed Golladay, he probably knew his days were numbered and was hoping to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

But where I really cringed with him was his constantly being on his back foot with Leo and the contract negotiations after trading with the Jets. Has Leo turned out to be a good player...sure....but he held all the cards with Gettleman through the whole relationship.

Terrible. Unless the player is Tom Brady or a sure fire HOF'er, that should never happen.
Some good moves and a lot of bad ones.  
johnnyb : 10/5/2022 12:07 pm : link
A broken clock is right once per day- he was bound to get something right.

At the end of the day, in his attempt to contend, he paid a lot of money to players who were clearly not worth it and put us in salary cap hell.
Coin Flip  
BlueVinnie : 10/5/2022 12:10 pm : link
between Gettleman and Matt Millen as worst GM of the 21st century. Both of them are contenders for the GM WOAT (worst of all time).
there are many people that are too fragile to see,  
dancing blue bear : 10/5/2022 12:11 pm : link
hear ,or speak the name. He is gone. he can't hurt you anymore. (besides setting the franchise back decades....decades!!!!)

He was attrocious at team building, managing the cap, assessing FA value, dealing with the media, hiring coaches and pretty much most other gm duties.

seemed to have a decent eye for talent, as alot of the players you mentioned are exciting. I know some people want everything he touched dragged into the yard and burned, but I'm excited to see some of these guys under a real coaching staff.
RE: I'm not going to kill Getts for Will Hernandez  
Andy in Boston : 10/5/2022 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15847202 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
When we drafted him first overall in the second round, every pundit from the Boston Globe to the Los Angeles Times felt we had solved our LG position for 12 years. He was highly heralded.

When he signed Golladay, he probably knew his days were numbered and was hoping to pull a rabbit out of the hat.

But where I really cringed with him was his constantly being on his back foot with Leo and the contract negotiations after trading with the Jets. Has Leo turned out to be a good player...sure....but he held all the cards with Gettleman through the whole relationship.

Terrible. Unless the player is Tom Brady or a sure fire HOF'er, that should never happen.



Hernandez is not an athlete. I think in last 3-5 years....the best OL in the NFL are really athletic.
......  
CoughlinHandsonHips : 10/5/2022 12:13 pm : link
He inherited a bottom of the barrel football team, and somehow managed to leave it worse.

It was so bad that Schoen couldn't even afford to cut the players he wanted due to the overloaded and restructured contracts in place.
Why the desire to torture history?  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/5/2022 12:14 pm : link
A general manager who never had his team above .500 for four full seasons, and left behind a roster that was capped out for a fifth season after spending in free agency like a drunken sailor with such recklessness that his team could not even afford to field a full roster by the end of his tenure - that's the executive summary of DG's time here as GM.

And there are still fans who can't resist the temptation to defend his performance if even to just suggest that he wasn't as bad as advertised? He was worse than most fans can even comprehend because most choose not to pay attention to the impact that cap dynamics have on the timeline of a rebuild.
Did you see what Hurricane Ian...  
bw in dc : 10/5/2022 12:15 pm : link
did to Sanibel Island? That's essentially what Hurricane Resume Dave did to 1925 Giants Way.

THE only way to save some of DG's legacy is if Jones works out and brings a championship. That would be a big deal.
His teams were 19-46  
Greg from LI : 10/5/2022 12:17 pm : link
There's plenty more about his mismanagement that could be said, but there's no need to.
he did a fucking terrible job  
bigbluehoya : 10/5/2022 12:17 pm : link
and couldn't have been more arrogant and condescending about it at every opportunity along the way.

good riddance. screw that guy.
6-8 decent to good players in 4 years of drafting  
ElitoCanton : 10/5/2022 12:19 pm : link
He had more draft assets than any GM in that period and he left us as one of the most untalented rosters in the league. Good lord. Open your eyes.
four years on the job...  
Greg from LI : 10/5/2022 12:20 pm : link
...and not once, not for one lousy week, were the Giants ever over .500.
Short of  
Scooter185 : 10/5/2022 12:23 pm : link
Frank and Stanley Robison, it would have been hard to do worse than Dave Gettleman
Gettleman  
RHPeel : 10/5/2022 12:24 pm : link
He was a decent evaluator of talent. But that's really only a small part of the GM's job. GMs need to be good strategists and resource managers, and Gettleman failed at those elements.

Identifying a good draft pick or signing here or there doesn't get around the broader issue of resource allocation. On that it was just constant, constant disappointment.
RE: 6-8 decent to good players in 4 years of drafting  
GiantsRage2007 : 10/5/2022 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15847225 ElitoCanton said:
Quote:
He had more draft assets than any GM in that period and he left us as one of the most untalented rosters in the league. Good lord. Open your eyes.


This. Holy hell.
RE: RE: batting .500 is good in baseball  
KDavies : 10/5/2022 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:


Quote:


It's not good enough as a NFL GM.



He wasn't batting .500.

He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it.

It will take years to clean up.


The franchise had half a decade of failure before Gettleman showed up. Gettleman hardly wrecked the franchise. They were a terrible team before he showed up. They were a terrible team with him. He failed to improve them into a contender, yes. But they were not a good team before he was there.
To me...  
bw in dc : 10/5/2022 12:26 pm : link
here is the kick in the balls with DG...

He's passed on three QBs right now who are on a legitimate HoF trajectory - Allen, Jackson and Herbert.

And in a league where having a great QB is paramount to consistent success, that is three doses of salt on a gaping wound...
what really hurt the Giants....  
riceneggs : 10/5/2022 12:27 pm : link
no1 really wants to talk about this, but what really hurt the Giants was keeping Eli Manning around too long.

I think if we'd moved on from Eli a couple years earlier, we'd be in a better position.

RE: RE: batting .500 is good in baseball  
FranknWeezer : 10/5/2022 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:


Quote:


It's not good enough as a NFL GM.



He wasn't batting .500.

He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it.

It will take years to clean up.


Eric, how about we give Gettleman the BBI Giant of the Year award, just for being gone? Then when he shows up to receive it, you can read him some of the best thread comments about what a dope he was and how he destroyed the franchise.
Giants were 3-13 the year before Gettleman took over  
KDavies : 10/5/2022 12:27 pm : link
the next four years, 5, 4, 6, and 4 wins. He took over a bad team with a lot of problems, and did not improve that team.
Legacy?  
JonC : 10/5/2022 12:28 pm : link
As GM, bottom of the barrel, difficult to do much worse given all the resources at his disposal. Not to mention his attitude, his very poor hires, and building an organization that was rotten to its core. The game and the work required had all zoomed right by him, unfortunately.
RE: what really hurt the Giants....  
riceneggs : 10/5/2022 12:33 pm : link
In comment 15847239 riceneggs said:
Quote:
no1 really wants to talk about this, but what really hurt the Giants was keeping Eli Manning around too long.

I think if we'd moved on from Eli a couple years earlier, we'd be in a better position.


wasn't there a report out that Ben Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Patrick Mahommes and the front office rejected it?
RE: Legacy?  
bw in dc : 10/5/2022 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15847244 JonC said:
Quote:
As GM, bottom of the barrel, difficult to do much worse given all the resources at his disposal. Not to mention his attitude, his very poor hires, and building an organization that was rotten to its core. The game and the work required had all zoomed right by him, unfortunately.


Not only was DG a disaster, but the process that led to Accorsi/Mara hiring him was a complete embarrassment and sham.

That story should never be left out when reviewing the DG era...
RE: RE: what really hurt the Giants....  
Spiciest Memelord : 10/5/2022 12:36 pm : link
In comment 15847252 riceneggs said:
Quote:
In comment 15847239 riceneggs said:


Quote:


no1 really wants to talk about this, but what really hurt the Giants was keeping Eli Manning around too long.

I think if we'd moved on from Eli a couple years earlier, we'd be in a better position.




wasn't there a report out that Ben Mcadoo wanted to trade up for Patrick Mahommes and the front office rejected it?


Ncadoo is a QB guru, he was also right about Geno, Mayfield and Darnold!
The people  
PaulN : 10/5/2022 12:38 pm : link
That refuse to admit they are wrong is staggering. Try to say it. Now repeat after me. "I ",,,, "WAS",,,,"WRONG". Now come on, give a try. You can do it.
RE: RE: RE: batting .500 is good in baseball  
Gatorade Dunk : 10/5/2022 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15847235 KDavies said:
Quote:
In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:


Quote:


It's not good enough as a NFL GM.



He wasn't batting .500.

He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it.

It will take years to clean up.




The franchise had half a decade of failure before Gettleman showed up. Gettleman hardly wrecked the franchise. They were a terrible team before he showed up. They were a terrible team with him. He failed to improve them into a contender, yes. But they were not a good team before he was there.

Was Gettleman handcuffed by the salary cap in any meaningful way when he took over?

Were there any players that he would have cut but he could not afford to?

Were there any players that he had no choice but to cut or restructure just to conform to the cap?

Did Reese, even in as weak a condition that he left the roster, ever find himself with so little cap room that he could not afford to fill out a complete roster during the season?

Simply by this context alone, compare the state of the roster when Gettleman took over to the state of the roster when Schoen took over.

No matter how poorly you think Reese managed the roster, Gettleman did worse, by orders of magnitude.
RE: what really hurt the Giants....  
Scooter185 : 10/5/2022 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15847239 riceneggs said:
Quote:
no1 really wants to talk about this, but what really hurt the Giants was keeping Eli Manning around too long.

I think if we'd moved on from Eli a couple years earlier, we'd be in a better position.


Alternatively had they stuck with Eli through 2019, and waited for Herbert in 2020 the Giants are also better off.
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