I'll admit....I liked him when they hired him....and was excited is 1st year...I thought he would do a really good job. Loved his old school demeanor, thoughts on football, approach. Then overtime realized he wasn't ready for modern football and he ended up really hurting the Giants. My biggest issues with him were the draft picks of Deandre Baker, Will Hernandez, possibly Kadarius Toney. And of course the Nate Solder and Golloday singings. The other gaffes, I think most GM's have. (Omameh, Jonathan Stewart, etc.)
What's interesting now, is the draft picks that are playing well or on the verge of playing well, seem to be his guys. And they could end up being the real cornerstones of the future.
Dexter Lawrence
Saquon Barkley
Xavier Mckinney
Azeez Ojulari
Andrew Thomas
Julian Love
Tae Crowder
possibly Daniel Jones
He also deserves credit for guys like:
Signing Adoree Jackson
signing Graham Gano.
discovering Nick Gates
trading for Leonard Williams, although his contract is inflated. Same with Bradberry.
Question is, what kind of legacy will Gettleman really have?
Again, I think he screwed up royally his last year....but he could end up being fairly average in terms of a GM grade.
mara hired the coaches, as we all know. gettleman wanted wilks or patricia the year they got shurmur. mara also wanted judge to satiate his belichick worship.
deandre baker- shurmur was pushing for him.
beckham- shurmur wanted him off the team.
kadarius toney- judge wanted him.
andrew thomas was someone garrett was relentlessly pushing for.
gettleman allowed himself to be pushed in whatever direction the coaches and owners wanted to push him. no real vision of his own. unlikeable and smarmy on top of it.
1) the leo williams contract, 2) drafting barkley with the #2 overall and not moving back to collect what could have been at minimum nick chubb and quinten nelson, and 3) taking daniel jones when eli still had a year left on his contract instead of waiting til '20 and moving heaven and earth for herbert, were his worst sins
the golladay signing was icing on the cake but the wheels of failure were spinning long before that whiff.
Assuming the Neal pick is what he got on the trade down, not picking Parsons is an epic failure. He is an absolute game changer and the most disruptive pass rusher since LT. The guy wins on pass plays at close to 50 percent. That's insane. Similarly, if you assume the pick became KT, I feel confident even at this stage of saying he will never be what Parsons is.
Quote:
As GM, bottom of the barrel, difficult to do much worse given all the resources at his disposal. Not to mention his attitude, his very poor hires, and building an organization that was rotten to its core. The game and the work required had all zoomed right by him, unfortunately.
Not only was DG a disaster, but the process that led to Accorsi/Mara hiring him was a complete embarrassment and sham.
That story should never be left out when reviewing the DG era...
Agreed. Talk about living in the past and being fookin' lazy with such a crucial moment.
mara hired the coaches, as we all know. gettleman wanted wilks or patricia the year they got shurmur. mara also wanted judge to satiate his belichick worship.
deandre baker- shurmur was pushing for him.
beckham- shurmur wanted him off the team.
kadarius toney- judge wanted him.
andrew thomas was someone garrett was relentlessly pushing for.
gettleman allowed himself to be pushed in whatever direction the coaches and owners wanted to push him. no real vision of his own. unlikeable and smarmy on top of it.
1) the leo williams contract, 2) drafting barkley with the #2 overall and not moving back to collect what could have been at minimum nick chubb and quinten nelson, and 3) taking daniel jones when eli still had a year left on his contract instead of waiting til '20 and moving heaven and earth for herbert, were his worst sins
the golladay signing was icing on the cake but the wheels of failure were spinning long before that whiff.
I don;t get how people can still be harping on the LW trade and signing. He's a very good player and any statement that he could have been signed without the trade is nothing more than speculation.
We can kill DG without the LW issue.
Not only was it the right move, but Thomas is playing like the best left tackle in football at the age of 23.
The coaching selections and free agency moves were a disaster. But he may have selected the NFL's best offensive weapon and one of the game's best left tackles. And yet, most fans just don't want to admit that to be true.
Quote:
In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:
Quote:
It's not good enough as a NFL GM.
He wasn't batting .500.
He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it.
It will take years to clean up.
The franchise had half a decade of failure before Gettleman showed up. Gettleman hardly wrecked the franchise. They were a terrible team before he showed up. They were a terrible team with him. He failed to improve them into a contender, yes. But they were not a good team before he was there.
He took the mess Reese/Ross created and turned it into a dumpster fire.
I can't even believe we are having this conversation.
Absolutely amazing.
Scout players? Like Golladay, Solder, Jones?
He wrecked this team.
So, it isn't just a 1 sided coin. You can say that he was a disaster but that he actually drafted really good talent that can be part of the reason this thing gets turned out.
What's going to happen if the Giants win 9 games this year with the best LT in football, best NT, one of the best safeties, best RB, who were all drafted by Gettleman?
So, it isn't just a 1 sided coin. You can say that he was a disaster but that he actually drafted really good talent that can be part of the reason this thing gets turned out.
What's going to happen if the Giants win 9 games this year with the best LT in football, best NT, one of the best safeties, best RB, who were all drafted by Gettleman?
He was a train wreck.
His coaching hires were a disaster.
His free agent decisions were largely a disaster.
Most of his draft picks were bad.
I can't believe we're having this conversation.
Fans of other teams laughed at this clown.
And also - everyone gets so fucking butthurt over Gettleman like they can't actually admit that he drafted some potentially great players.
I can say that he was a bad GM but nailed some picks. You and others don't seem to be able to reach that conclusion - mostly because everyone was so dug in on him that they failed to be patient with Thomas and Barkley in particular.
And Jones is not done with this team yet by the way.
So...yeah.
In hindsight, Barkley WAS the wrong pick for this team at that moment in time. They offers to trade down and Gettleman wouldn't even pick up the phone.
So even the "good picks" you are referencing are not even legit.
You can't chalk up Jones or Barkley as good picks. Barkley he openly mocked analytics when he picked him when the positional value argument he spat in the face of is mainly built on durability concerns as well as the very real need to split carries and therefore resources amongst RBs for them to be effective and available. Jones was the 6th pick in the draft and getting a QB to perform on their rookie deal is about the most important thing in the modern era. These are F grades, you don't grade a GM on if a player has talent you grade them on the value they provide and if the team can win around them.
Thomas is a great pick but the 5 first round picks he made 3/5 of them were bad to total disasters in Toney. Lawrence is an adequate pick. McKinney is the only non-first round pick to really speak of and with all the picks he had at the top of rounds that again is a horrible yield not "500." Drafting was his best thing and he did not have an "eye for talent" due to all the horrible talent he brought in overall.
He was a bad general manager. Fact. Couldn't pick a coach. Fact. Couldn't identify good free agents, except for basically 1 guy, fact.
But he drafted top end talent that could be the reason we get it turned around. Fact.
And also - everyone gets so fucking butthurt over Gettleman like they can't actually admit that he drafted some potentially great players.
I can say that he was a bad GM but nailed some picks. You and others don't seem to be able to reach that conclusion - mostly because everyone was so dug in on him that they failed to be patient with Thomas and Barkley in particular.
And Jones is not done with this team yet by the way.
Wow... just wow.
I can't...
Some of you guys are just lost causes.
Barkley is all world, as we are seeing this year. He was a good pick.
Can you admit that? Or are you just so obtuse to that being possibly true?
Yes that's great, but that's somewhat like defending Mitch Trubisky by showing highlights of each of his touchdown passes. Not even Dave Gettleman is bad enough to whiff on every single top ten draft pick.
Lawrence - playing at an all pro level this year
McKinney - pro bowl safety
Barkley - maybe the best offensive weapon in the game
These are Gettleman draft picks, or did someone else draft them?
Nope, wrong again. Everyone was screaming for Becton. Gettleman took the other guy.
I should hope they got those right. Those are supposed to be the ones you have to get right.
Over .500! How about not once did the team reach .500. How about the best he did was 2 games below .500.
Quote:
we were picking top 6 in every round. You or I could have gotten some good players out of that.
Nope, wrong again. Everyone was screaming for Becton. Gettleman took the other guy.
Don't forget Haskins, Darnold and Rosen.
That doesn't mean he was worth the 2nd pick in the draft, especially because the VERY reason RBs don't get drafted that high is durability concerns.
The #2 pick in the draft should be one of the people leading your team into the playoffs on their rookie deal. Or at the very least making an impact in the majority of their games on that deal.
With injuries and healing can you even say Barkley has been an impact player in 1/3rd of his games? Definitely short of half. That is not good for the #2 pick.
And to think Barkley isn't without risk now is to fail at the very same analysis DG did in his rookie year. He could absolutely slow down our rebuild by getting a fat longer term deal and having another injury.
The NFL isn't just about "an eye for talent" it's about building a team that can win and that is more about handling resources efficiently than naming 8 players in 4 years you got right (debatably)
Take a look back at when Gettleman was director of pro personnel and Reese was College Scouting under Accorsi. He was involved with the scouting and signing many players who were instrumental in our success…
Just a few names…Kerry Collins, Plaxico Burress, Antonio Pierce, Antrel Rolle, Kareem McKenzie, Jeff Feagles Sean O’Hara, Lawrence Tynes, Derrick Ward, Chris Canty and the list goes on.
When he accepted the GM job, I believe he promised he could win with Eli and tried to build a team based on Eli as the QB for the next 4 years or so. I think colllectively the management made very poor coaching decisions and that’s not all on Dave. Changing coaching staffs always turns a roster over due to different philosophies and physical preferences.
For me the bottom line on Gettleman was at least a decent personnel guy who was in a situation he wasn’t equipped for.
He gets far too much blame for the state of the team.
And also - everyone gets so fucking butthurt over Gettleman like they can't actually admit that he drafted some potentially great players.
I can say that he was a bad GM but nailed some picks. You and others don't seem to be able to reach that conclusion - mostly because everyone was so dug in on him that they failed to be patient with Thomas and Barkley in particular.
And Jones is not done with this team yet by the way.
Spot on!
The Gettleman hate runs deep…past the point of being able to be objective about players he drafted.
Then if we draft a QB we do a better job of doing everything possible to best support him to reach his potential and try to maximize his rookie contract.
I'll take that.
Barkley is all world, as we are seeing this year. He was a good pick.
He was not a good pick. He did not get enough value out of overall 2nd pick in the draft. Fact.
Second, his QB taken at 6 didn't get his option picked up. If he is not here next year, that is another premium pick for which he did not get value. So yes, if you want to give him credit for Thomas, you also have to acknowledge that he is so bad at the margins this team had a competitive disadvantage. You also have to acknowledge that he was picking near the top of every draft.
It takes a special GM to pay so much for so little production. The team hit on a few picks, not nearly as many as they should have given the draft capital they had. He screwed this years pooch with the Bradberry extension that freed money for Golladay/Jackson and then paid for those guys with this years money. He kicked the can down the road when he knew he wouldn't be present for the financial reckoning, and its not like he sold out the cap to field a good team. Plus, he's an unlikable, misogynistic prick.
Was he as bad as Matt Millen, I don't think so but I do think Millen enjoys having some company in the worst ever conversation.
That doesn't mean he was worth the 2nd pick in the draft, especially because the VERY reason RBs don't get drafted that high is durability concerns.
The #2 pick in the draft should be one of the people leading your team into the playoffs on their rookie deal. Or at the very least making an impact in the majority of their games on that deal.
With injuries and healing can you even say Barkley has been an impact player in 1/3rd of his games? Definitely short of half. That is not good for the #2 pick.
And to think Barkley isn't without risk now is to fail at the very same analysis DG did in his rookie year. He could absolutely slow down our rebuild by getting a fat longer term deal and having another injury.
The NFL isn't just about "an eye for talent" it's about building a team that can win and that is more about handling resources efficiently than naming 8 players in 4 years you got right (debatably)
Very well stated. Anyone touting the Barkley pick as a Gettleman success is missing the point. It was a pick of a quality player without maximizing the pick value. It should be considered a foremost failure of his tenure.
He personally scouted Herbert a bunch of times IN PERSON, so he correctly identified him as the perfect successor.
When JH went back to school, instead of telling Mara “let’s wait until next year and grab this guy”, he panicked. One of the scouts, Petit maybe, told him about Jones, someone he never saw play and hadn’t spent 2 minutes thinking about.
He goes to watch him at the Senior bowl- an EXHIBITION game, watches 2 series and proclaims himself to be “full blown in love”.
Then he puts the final nail in his own coffin when he’s on the clock, believes crap about someone else “trading up” for Jones and picks him at 6.
You can’t do a Worse job as a GM than this.
This asshole had the #2, #4, #6, #11, and #17 OVERALL picks in the draft during his 4-year tenure. I just went back and checked, and only 5 times in the last 50 YEARS has this team had picks that high (and only 3 other times having picks in the top 4--and here we had picks that high twice in his brief tenure!). So he damn well better have hit on some of them. Or turned them into a dynasty-building windfall.
No, I do not give Dave Gettleman credit for not winning a damn thing during his tenure and setting us back several years with horrible contracts and making a dysfunctional organization even worse (how the F was that even possible?)
It has absolutely been reported that Garrett was a big, big Thomas table-pounder. Judge was leading the recruitment effort big on Kadarious Toney and Kenny Golladay. Shurmur wanted DeAndre Baker.
You can argue that the GM can know better, or that he should listen to his head coaches, but these things are collaborative.
Quote:
In comment 15847177 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15847173 rasbutant said:
Quote:
It's not good enough as a NFL GM.
He wasn't batting .500.
He wrecked the franchise. Wrecked it.
It will take years to clean up.
The franchise had half a decade of failure before Gettleman showed up. Gettleman hardly wrecked the franchise. They were a terrible team before he showed up. They were a terrible team with him. He failed to improve them into a contender, yes. But they were not a good team before he was there.
He took the mess Reese/Ross created and turned it into a dumpster fire.
I can't even believe we are having this conversation.
Absolutely amazing.
Yes, he took a franchise that was already ruined (and had been bad for the better half of a decade), and didn't improve it/made it worse. That is exactly my point. The thing I disagree with is the implication that he took over some franchise that had recent success. He took over a 3-13 team
He obviously failed, and some that was bad luck but mostly he made poor picks in the draft and free agency. His biggest regret is certainly not taking Josh Allen. Picks like that literally make or break your tenure.
And his demeanor - which I really did not know - did not go over well. That only works when you succeed.....lose and it's only going to be another thing people pounce on.
As far as his overall professional career, he had quite a successful NFL career and it's ashamed his last gig did not go well esp at a place he previously had done good things. People tend to remember what you did last, unfortunately.