This was never going to work - as is the case with every fitness fad out there.
Other than.....
As a fitness nut I made good money shorting them. It was just a perfect confluence of events that allowed them to flourish. They don’t even offer anything revolutionary and it was only a matter of time before you had substition competitors and tightening purse strings because of inflation.
it’s user base will still use it 5 years from now if the company still exists. They aren’t failing because the users they have, stopped riding. It’s failing because it’s too expensive of a company to run in its current model.
I’ll never go back to a gym. Running outside and biking inside when it’s shitty out is something I will do for the rest of my life.
I see your angle. Just disagree with what fad is. People still use P90X videos as well - Peloton will always be around but never as big as it was during and around the pandemic. Felt the same way when I saw how F45 was running their operation and now they are making huge cuts as well and ending careers for many.
I think you are severely discounting the “experience”. None of those products had a community behind it, one that’s accessible anywhere you want. Working out became gamified which is just a massive part of their model. If they didn’t do such a good job with that it would be just another piece of equipment, and then I’d agree with you.
Part of it is the repetitive pattern of exercise. Fast biking, slow biking, intervals, racing, joy riding...etc. The movement pattern gets too old for many (not all, I know) and other than the cardiovascular end of it (which I know is vital to health) - it is an extremely limited form of exercise and fitness. It is easy to see why many are left eventually wanting more and/or variety.
I think you are missing what Peloton offers. I have a bike. But with the membership I can take yoga classes, weight classes, etc all from home without going to a gym. A couple times a week I will go on a run if it is nice out. Variety is not a concern, if anything they offer too much.
I think most of the criticism of Peloton is coming from people who have not used it and do not understand the options available and the interactions available which help in motivation.
They are not having membership issues. They are having profitability issues because they expanded too quickly and probably are not marketing enough to the user who wants a lower impact (joints) form of exercise.
This was never going to work - as is the case with every fitness fad out there.
Other than.....
As a fitness nut I made good money shorting them. It was just a perfect confluence of events that allowed them to flourish. They don’t even offer anything revolutionary and it was only a matter of time before you had substition competitors and tightening purse strings because of inflation.
As a fitness nut, wouldn't you also agree that whatever works for people, they should embrace it?
Their product IS superior.. and for a lot of people its worth it and either viewed as supplemental or preferable to going to gym or other workouts/
Yes, they tried to expand too quickly and you made a good move... but it doesn't mean the business itself had anything wrong with it. They were doing well before the pandemic also!
its why I still run. But I think you'll see people continue to supplement at home and not flock back to the gym - add a bench and some weights and you basically cover everything the average man or women wants/needs.
I absolutely hate commuting and/or wasting time. If the gym was 10 minutes away that's 20 total minutes I can't get back that would otherwise be spent upstairs on a ride. Its just too damn convenient. I hope they find a way to make it work, its what got me back into shape and active through the crappy winters.
You know what this thread is missing. People who have used a Peloton and hated it. The problem with home workouts was always the lack of an interactive format that provided motivation. Peloton has 2.6 million users because they offer that.
This was never going to work - as is the case with every fitness fad out there.
Other than.....
As a fitness nut I made good money shorting them. It was just a perfect confluence of events that allowed them to flourish. They don’t even offer anything revolutionary and it was only a matter of time before you had substition competitors and tightening purse strings because of inflation.
As a fitness nut, wouldn't you also agree that whatever works for people, they should embrace it?
Their product IS superior.. and for a lot of people its worth it and either viewed as supplemental or preferable to going to gym or other workouts/
Yes, they tried to expand too quickly and you made a good move... but it doesn't mean the business itself had anything wrong with it. They were doing well before the pandemic also!
Absolutely! But as someone that has seen these trends, at end of day they are fads for 80% of the users. It’s also crazy expensive for what it offers for most and you had inflation eating away at what I thought were insane subscription fees. It’s literally a livestream class, on scale alone it should be cheaper than going into an actual class. It’s easily copied as well.
Just saying that I will forever see this when reading the word Peloton, and laugh
I completely forgot about those terrible commercials. If memory serves though, she ended up owning it and doing pretty well making fun of herself on some late night shows etc.
RE: Peleton peddles unrealistic marketing with Buxton
Blondes in Spandex that look like supermodels and sell the idea you can look like that or acquire with a little hard work on a bike.
The exercise is great, don't get me wrong, but to look like one of their models in the commercials is unrealistic.
Most if not all of their instructors are normal looking people. I actually think that's helped them a lot because the average woman sees something attainable and/or relatable. I feel similarly about their marketing.
its why I still run. But I think you'll see people continue to supplement at home and not flock back to the gym - add a bench and some weights and you basically cover everything the average man or women wants/needs.
I absolutely hate commuting and/or wasting time. If the gym was 10 minutes away that's 20 total minutes I can't get back that would otherwise be spent upstairs on a ride. Its just too damn convenient. I hope they find a way to make it work, its what got me back into shape and active through the crappy winters.
You know what this thread is missing. People who have used a Peloton and hated it. The problem with home workouts was always the lack of an interactive format that provided motivation. Peloton has 2.6 million users because they offer that.
But it got way ahead of itself because of the pandemic. It's absolutely viable, it just has to shrink down to size.
They need to handle the communications better and emphasize that they'll continue being there for customers and programs will continue. They need to give customers a reason to stick with the service. Not sure what these public statements accomplish.
But it got way ahead of itself because of the pandemic. It's absolutely viable, it just has to shrink down to size.
They need to handle the communications better and emphasize that they'll continue being there for customers and programs will continue. They need to give customers a reason to stick with the service. Not sure what these public statements accomplish.
And a reason for their current customers to expand...like I said earlier I want to buy a Tread but if I do that now and the service deteriorates, then I have no one to blame but myself... So I'm in wait and see mode
When the process started I was told they were hiring like crazy. They repeatedly told me they wanted me to continue in the process, but then suddenly ghosted me after a few weeks. I eventually heard from the recruiter was told that all of their hiring was put on hold.
From what I heard, sounds like I dodged a bullet there.
and as someone who has done both for a while i think they are both very similar (albeit obviously different in that one is at home and the other is in person) - but similar in that calling either "a fad" minimizes the positives and the accomplishments both made.
both gamified fitness within a community in ways that are fun and work. both made missteps as all company do, neither was ever going to be able to maintain their peak "trendiness", and the business models of each had various pros/cons but at their core they are both very positive (and innovative) movements for people living healthier lives.
i think by most metrics crossfit has been the most successful in person communal gym "fad", and has the most longevity baked into that success.
and similarly peloton has easily been the most successful at home / on demand communal exercise "fad". i don't know if their business model can support lasting success but i think the communities are equally devoted so there's an evolution there if they don't screw it up because like crossfit it's just a really good product. selling to Nike is an obvious move they should have made 6 months ago.
and as someone who has done both for a while i think they are both very similar (albeit obviously different in that one is at home and the other is in person) - but similar in that calling either "a fad" minimizes the positives and the accomplishments both made.
both gamified fitness within a community in ways that are fun and work. both made missteps as all company do, neither was ever going to be able to maintain their peak "trendiness", and the business models of each had various pros/cons but at their core they are both very positive (and innovative) movements for people living healthier lives.
i think by most metrics crossfit has been the most successful in person communal gym "fad", and has the most longevity baked into that success.
and similarly peloton has easily been the most successful at home / on demand communal exercise "fad". i don't know if their business model can support lasting success but i think the communities are equally devoted so there's an evolution there if they don't screw it up because like crossfit it's just a really good product. selling to Nike is an obvious move they should have made 6 months ago.
100% you hit very key points.
I am pro-fitness, pro-health. I don't care what it is to be honest - I just think everyone should have exercise as a big part of their life and view that as a responsibility, not a luxury. Bringing people together via Peloton has changed countless lives and I love them for it.
My sentiment has more to do with the business model. Been in that game for 10 years and there is so much I shake my head at. There is such a disconnect between spreading health, fitness, wellness and business. I, like many others, saw this coming with Peloton years ago (F45 too) and it is unfortunate.
and as someone who has done both for a while i think they are both very similar (albeit obviously different in that one is at home and the other is in person) - but similar in that calling either "a fad" minimizes the positives and the accomplishments both made.
both gamified fitness within a community in ways that are fun and work. both made missteps as all company do, neither was ever going to be able to maintain their peak "trendiness", and the business models of each had various pros/cons but at their core they are both very positive (and innovative) movements for people living healthier lives.
i think by most metrics crossfit has been the most successful in person communal gym "fad", and has the most longevity baked into that success.
and similarly peloton has easily been the most successful at home / on demand communal exercise "fad". i don't know if their business model can support lasting success but i think the communities are equally devoted so there's an evolution there if they don't screw it up because like crossfit it's just a really good product. selling to Nike is an obvious move they should have made 6 months ago.
100% you hit very key points.
I am pro-fitness, pro-health. I don't care what it is to be honest - I just think everyone should have exercise as a big part of their life and view that as a responsibility, not a luxury. Bringing people together via Peloton has changed countless lives and I love them for it.
My sentiment has more to do with the business model. Been in that game for 10 years and there is so much I shake my head at. There is such a disconnect between spreading health, fitness, wellness and business. I, like many others, saw this coming with Peloton years ago (F45 too) and it is unfortunate.
Honestly I think they just got out over their skiis because they saw gold at the end of a rainbow that wasn't there, and crossfit did the exact same thing. the only big difference is crossfit offloaded a lot of risk to affiliates while subsidizing themselves but not those affiliates with big $ from reebok - and in some areas a massive percentage of new gyms popped up and down like lightning in the peak years. same with the pay for play competition circuits. participants aside i think there's a tremendous amount of crossfit affiliates out there who got crushed not unlike how some divisions of peloton's business will/have in the coming months/years. but both will endure because of the strength of the product.
both would have been smarter to try to grow steadily and prioritize value in their communities over a quick buck but where there's money to be made there is rarely any will power to not grab it.
i'd imagine this is something you know first hand better than me but i would guess the % of even the crossfit affiliates that are open and thriving and have very legitimate gripes with cfhq is 100%. they have structurally failed at supporting their core community from the top down, they just have a strong product and community (which is exactly like pton).
I can't run anymore and there is no safe road biking around me. I use the bike 3-4 times a week and have been doing Andy Speer's total strength program home and on layovers via the app. I'm excited to find Peletons at various hotels and just sign in with my info.
I will probably not ever join a gym again. I'm getting into the best shape I've been in and my gym commute is about 50 feet.
I hope Peleton makes it and continues providing excellent content.
Hilton hotels and going into Dicks sporting goods will be enough to spark some new growth.
Is the average Dicks shopper who doesn’t already own one shelling out money to buy it just because it’s at Dicks? It’s fairly easy to order a Peloton I thought.
Hilton hotels and going into Dicks sporting goods will be enough to spark some new growth.
Is the average Dicks shopper who doesn’t already own one shelling out money to buy it just because it’s at Dicks? It’s fairly easy to order a Peloton I thought.
I can see people on the fence making up their mind better by seeing it in person. Other than California and NY most states have only 1 or 2 Peloton stores so their isn't much reach. I can also see Dicks offering add-on's at a reduced rate for bundle deals. There's probably opportunity to keep stock local and expedite and/or reduce shipping costs.
it’s crazy how much shipping has surged. I believe Peloton still offers free shipping (which makes sense) but I’m curious what the increase in costs for them have been over the last year. It weighs almost 150 lbs and ground shipping on something that size plus paying 2-3 workers to assemble is likely an easy $300. That’s around 15% or more of the MSRP just to get it to you.
They are so far behind on figuring out how to bring in additional recurring revenue. It’s been two years since their pandemic surge, you would have thought they would have started that process during the surge.
I have a Peloton as well. Love it and gladly pay for the membership
however, i cant deny the stupidity of management and the likes. How the hell are you going to have a lavish upscale party when you just let go of almost 1500 employees. Its stupid. Then the fiasco with Sex and the City. All stupid moves.
To make matters worse, the new rower is much more than its competitors by almost 1k and being released when we are on the edge of a recession. The bumbling moves.
I want them to succeed for the simple fact that my bike isnt an expensive coat hanger but at the rate management is moving, it might not matter.
for those that didnt follow pton their founder/ex-ceo was a big prob
and now that I have a Peloton and a Tonal you couldn't pay me to go to a gym.
I can't tell you how much I love having both a bike and a weight-lifting machine in my living room. It is beyond convenient, I never have to wait for a machine, and I work out when I want and at my own pace.
Yeah, I have 6K invested in both machines and pay $90 a month for subscriptions but I'm in at around 10% body fat and as strong as I have ever been at 63 years old.
And my 13-year-old son is lifting now and gets on the bike a couple of times a week.
Other than.....
As a fitness nut I made good money shorting them. It was just a perfect confluence of events that allowed them to flourish. They don’t even offer anything revolutionary and it was only a matter of time before you had substition competitors and tightening purse strings because of inflation.
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In comment 15848516 Sy'56 said:
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In comment 15848474 UConn4523 said:
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it’s user base will still use it 5 years from now if the company still exists. They aren’t failing because the users they have, stopped riding. It’s failing because it’s too expensive of a company to run in its current model.
I’ll never go back to a gym. Running outside and biking inside when it’s shitty out is something I will do for the rest of my life.
I see your angle. Just disagree with what fad is. People still use P90X videos as well - Peloton will always be around but never as big as it was during and around the pandemic. Felt the same way when I saw how F45 was running their operation and now they are making huge cuts as well and ending careers for many.
I think you are severely discounting the “experience”. None of those products had a community behind it, one that’s accessible anywhere you want. Working out became gamified which is just a massive part of their model. If they didn’t do such a good job with that it would be just another piece of equipment, and then I’d agree with you.
Part of it is the repetitive pattern of exercise. Fast biking, slow biking, intervals, racing, joy riding...etc. The movement pattern gets too old for many (not all, I know) and other than the cardiovascular end of it (which I know is vital to health) - it is an extremely limited form of exercise and fitness. It is easy to see why many are left eventually wanting more and/or variety.
I think you are missing what Peloton offers. I have a bike. But with the membership I can take yoga classes, weight classes, etc all from home without going to a gym. A couple times a week I will go on a run if it is nice out. Variety is not a concern, if anything they offer too much.
I think most of the criticism of Peloton is coming from people who have not used it and do not understand the options available and the interactions available which help in motivation.
They are not having membership issues. They are having profitability issues because they expanded too quickly and probably are not marketing enough to the user who wants a lower impact (joints) form of exercise.
Quote:
This was never going to work - as is the case with every fitness fad out there.
Other than.....
As a fitness nut I made good money shorting them. It was just a perfect confluence of events that allowed them to flourish. They don’t even offer anything revolutionary and it was only a matter of time before you had substition competitors and tightening purse strings because of inflation.
As a fitness nut, wouldn't you also agree that whatever works for people, they should embrace it?
Their product IS superior.. and for a lot of people its worth it and either viewed as supplemental or preferable to going to gym or other workouts/
Yes, they tried to expand too quickly and you made a good move... but it doesn't mean the business itself had anything wrong with it. They were doing well before the pandemic also!
I never run outside without Peloton anymore.
I absolutely hate commuting and/or wasting time. If the gym was 10 minutes away that's 20 total minutes I can't get back that would otherwise be spent upstairs on a ride. Its just too damn convenient. I hope they find a way to make it work, its what got me back into shape and active through the crappy winters.
You know what this thread is missing. People who have used a Peloton and hated it. The problem with home workouts was always the lack of an interactive format that provided motivation. Peloton has 2.6 million users because they offer that.
The exercise is great, don't get me wrong, but to look like one of their models in the commercials is unrealistic.
Quote:
In comment 15848342 Sy'56 said:
Quote:
This was never going to work - as is the case with every fitness fad out there.
Other than.....
As a fitness nut I made good money shorting them. It was just a perfect confluence of events that allowed them to flourish. They don’t even offer anything revolutionary and it was only a matter of time before you had substition competitors and tightening purse strings because of inflation.
As a fitness nut, wouldn't you also agree that whatever works for people, they should embrace it?
Their product IS superior.. and for a lot of people its worth it and either viewed as supplemental or preferable to going to gym or other workouts/
Yes, they tried to expand too quickly and you made a good move... but it doesn't mean the business itself had anything wrong with it. They were doing well before the pandemic also!
Absolutely! But as someone that has seen these trends, at end of day they are fads for 80% of the users. It’s also crazy expensive for what it offers for most and you had inflation eating away at what I thought were insane subscription fees. It’s literally a livestream class, on scale alone it should be cheaper than going into an actual class. It’s easily copied as well.
I completely forgot about those terrible commercials. If memory serves though, she ended up owning it and doing pretty well making fun of herself on some late night shows etc.
The exercise is great, don't get me wrong, but to look like one of their models in the commercials is unrealistic.
Most if not all of their instructors are normal looking people. I actually think that's helped them a lot because the average woman sees something attainable and/or relatable. I feel similarly about their marketing.
I can get a 14 year old to duct tape a tablet onto my Schwinnn.
Netflix? 20 straight profitable years including 5 billion in 2021.
Yeah, what morons.
Quote:
its why I still run. But I think you'll see people continue to supplement at home and not flock back to the gym - add a bench and some weights and you basically cover everything the average man or women wants/needs.
I absolutely hate commuting and/or wasting time. If the gym was 10 minutes away that's 20 total minutes I can't get back that would otherwise be spent upstairs on a ride. Its just too damn convenient. I hope they find a way to make it work, its what got me back into shape and active through the crappy winters.
You know what this thread is missing. People who have used a Peloton and hated it. The problem with home workouts was always the lack of an interactive format that provided motivation. Peloton has 2.6 million users because they offer that.
Bingo
Quote:
like Netflix and Twitter.
I can get a 14 year old to duct tape a tablet onto my Schwinnn.
Netflix? 20 straight profitable years including 5 billion in 2021.
Yeah, what morons.
I'm all for watching Memelord lug a TV around with his DVD player hooked up to it trying to find an outlet to plug into to watch Squid Game.
They need to handle the communications better and emphasize that they'll continue being there for customers and programs will continue. They need to give customers a reason to stick with the service. Not sure what these public statements accomplish.
They need to handle the communications better and emphasize that they'll continue being there for customers and programs will continue. They need to give customers a reason to stick with the service. Not sure what these public statements accomplish.
And a reason for their current customers to expand...like I said earlier I want to buy a Tread but if I do that now and the service deteriorates, then I have no one to blame but myself... So I'm in wait and see mode
And a reason for their current customers to expand...
Huh! And I thought most people bought this for the opposite…
From what I heard, sounds like I dodged a bullet there.
Quote:
And a reason for their current customers to expand...
Huh! And I thought most people bought this for the opposite…
LOL good one
both gamified fitness within a community in ways that are fun and work. both made missteps as all company do, neither was ever going to be able to maintain their peak "trendiness", and the business models of each had various pros/cons but at their core they are both very positive (and innovative) movements for people living healthier lives.
i think by most metrics crossfit has been the most successful in person communal gym "fad", and has the most longevity baked into that success.
and similarly peloton has easily been the most successful at home / on demand communal exercise "fad". i don't know if their business model can support lasting success but i think the communities are equally devoted so there's an evolution there if they don't screw it up because like crossfit it's just a really good product. selling to Nike is an obvious move they should have made 6 months ago.
both gamified fitness within a community in ways that are fun and work. both made missteps as all company do, neither was ever going to be able to maintain their peak "trendiness", and the business models of each had various pros/cons but at their core they are both very positive (and innovative) movements for people living healthier lives.
i think by most metrics crossfit has been the most successful in person communal gym "fad", and has the most longevity baked into that success.
and similarly peloton has easily been the most successful at home / on demand communal exercise "fad". i don't know if their business model can support lasting success but i think the communities are equally devoted so there's an evolution there if they don't screw it up because like crossfit it's just a really good product. selling to Nike is an obvious move they should have made 6 months ago.
100% you hit very key points.
I am pro-fitness, pro-health. I don't care what it is to be honest - I just think everyone should have exercise as a big part of their life and view that as a responsibility, not a luxury. Bringing people together via Peloton has changed countless lives and I love them for it.
My sentiment has more to do with the business model. Been in that game for 10 years and there is so much I shake my head at. There is such a disconnect between spreading health, fitness, wellness and business. I, like many others, saw this coming with Peloton years ago (F45 too) and it is unfortunate.
Quote:
and as someone who has done both for a while i think they are both very similar (albeit obviously different in that one is at home and the other is in person) - but similar in that calling either "a fad" minimizes the positives and the accomplishments both made.
both gamified fitness within a community in ways that are fun and work. both made missteps as all company do, neither was ever going to be able to maintain their peak "trendiness", and the business models of each had various pros/cons but at their core they are both very positive (and innovative) movements for people living healthier lives.
i think by most metrics crossfit has been the most successful in person communal gym "fad", and has the most longevity baked into that success.
and similarly peloton has easily been the most successful at home / on demand communal exercise "fad". i don't know if their business model can support lasting success but i think the communities are equally devoted so there's an evolution there if they don't screw it up because like crossfit it's just a really good product. selling to Nike is an obvious move they should have made 6 months ago.
100% you hit very key points.
I am pro-fitness, pro-health. I don't care what it is to be honest - I just think everyone should have exercise as a big part of their life and view that as a responsibility, not a luxury. Bringing people together via Peloton has changed countless lives and I love them for it.
My sentiment has more to do with the business model. Been in that game for 10 years and there is so much I shake my head at. There is such a disconnect between spreading health, fitness, wellness and business. I, like many others, saw this coming with Peloton years ago (F45 too) and it is unfortunate.
Honestly I think they just got out over their skiis because they saw gold at the end of a rainbow that wasn't there, and crossfit did the exact same thing. the only big difference is crossfit offloaded a lot of risk to affiliates while subsidizing themselves but not those affiliates with big $ from reebok - and in some areas a massive percentage of new gyms popped up and down like lightning in the peak years. same with the pay for play competition circuits. participants aside i think there's a tremendous amount of crossfit affiliates out there who got crushed not unlike how some divisions of peloton's business will/have in the coming months/years. but both will endure because of the strength of the product.
both would have been smarter to try to grow steadily and prioritize value in their communities over a quick buck but where there's money to be made there is rarely any will power to not grab it.
Hilton hotels and going into Dicks sporting goods will be enough to spark some new growth.
I will probably not ever join a gym again. I'm getting into the best shape I've been in and my gym commute is about 50 feet.
I hope Peleton makes it and continues providing excellent content.
The bike is the least significant component of what they offer, despite it being the best bike in the business.
Hilton hotels and going into Dicks sporting goods will be enough to spark some new growth.
Is the average Dicks shopper who doesn’t already own one shelling out money to buy it just because it’s at Dicks? It’s fairly easy to order a Peloton I thought.
Quote:
Hilton hotels and going into Dicks sporting goods will be enough to spark some new growth.
Is the average Dicks shopper who doesn’t already own one shelling out money to buy it just because it’s at Dicks? It’s fairly easy to order a Peloton I thought.
I can see people on the fence making up their mind better by seeing it in person. Other than California and NY most states have only 1 or 2 Peloton stores so their isn't much reach. I can also see Dicks offering add-on's at a reduced rate for bundle deals. There's probably opportunity to keep stock local and expedite and/or reduce shipping costs.
To make matters worse, the new rower is much more than its competitors by almost 1k and being released when we are on the edge of a recession. The bumbling moves.
I want them to succeed for the simple fact that my bike isnt an expensive coat hanger but at the rate management is moving, it might not matter.
brutal slide deck that a major Peloton investor published eviscerating CEO John Foley, right before he announced his resignation - ( New Window )
I can't tell you how much I love having both a bike and a weight-lifting machine in my living room. It is beyond convenient, I never have to wait for a machine, and I work out when I want and at my own pace.
Yeah, I have 6K invested in both machines and pay $90 a month for subscriptions but I'm in at around 10% body fat and as strong as I have ever been at 63 years old.
And my 13-year-old son is lifting now and gets on the bike a couple of times a week.
Beat that with a stick.