It does highlight how dink and dunk our passing game has been but there are so many factors beyond Jones when it comes to our lack of a vertical passing game.
The % of dropbacks under pressure/no pressure is the more important stat of the two through 4 weeks imo, and it's scary how bad this OL has still been in that area.
It's hard to figure out how much blame/credit should be assigned to the QB in situations like these.
There’s so much noise in these stats. Things like PA. Shit you can do a deep sell PA have three full seconds and get hit by the time you get your neck around . It’s very offensive scheme and talent dependent.
Anthony Reinhard
@reinhardNFL
·
2m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
EPA is really just a measure of the efficiency of a play, so to the extent that a WR can improve that, it is baked in
Anthony Reinhard
@reinhardNFL
·
2m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
EPA is really just a measure of the efficiency of a play, so to the extent that a WR can improve that, it is baked in
Easy to see when he's making bad/slow decisions. Especially when you watch him on TV with a limited view or replays in slow motion. This also aligns with what some in the media also say. Bias confirmed!
I saw that. So, Jones has the most time between the snap and release.
So, there are various ways to go with this stat and the pressure numbers.
Is Jones taking too long to process to deliver the ball? Are the receivers not getting enough separation? Is the play-calling a factor? Are Jones's mechanics a factor (longer motion, ball-tapping, stepping up into the pocket more)? Does Jones just not trust his receivers? Is Jones still conditioned not to make mistakes that he's too hesitant? Etc.
Anthony Reinhard
@reinhardNFL
·
2m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
EPA is really just a measure of the efficiency of a play, so to the extent that a WR can improve that, it is baked in
Same amount of calculation for how garbage our QB is.
This is weak considering any fan with a pulse would agree that Jones at qb is much better than any player at wr. Even if jones is 19th or whatever the fuck number some of need to come up with, the wrs ain’t 19th.
The wrs are 32nd. And it’s not even close.
If jones wasn’t making any plays at all and scoring 12 pts per game I’d say nothing.
RE: RE: RE: Does EPA calculate how garbage our WRs are?
Anthony Reinhard
@reinhardNFL
·
2m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
EPA is really just a measure of the efficiency of a play, so to the extent that a WR can improve that, it is baked in
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Diggs was certainly a terrific acquisition, but he has a HoF throwing to him. Since Diggs arrived in Buffalo his catch % has increased, yards per game have increased, receptions per game have increased. He now has a guy who will put the ball anywhere for him to make a play.
I heard an interview with Diggs recently and he was asked to compare catching balls from Allen vs Cousins. He said Cousins threw a nice, easy ball to catch, but Allen throws the ball with such velocity and accuracy that he is willing to throw the ball anywhere, anytime.
Yes I did say I was not comparing Allen and Jones talent wise. Just pointing out the impact on Allen and Buffalo's passing game. This was the year Allen broke out and Diggs was a huge part of it.
In 2019, Diggs had 63 1130 17.9. So the Vikings used him a different way. Still a highly productive though used differently receiver.
BD seems like he favor the quick hitters. Right now there does not seem to be much to help Jones out.
Like I always tell you with stats. Baseline. Then you do the work. Sometimes it checks out as valid and sometimes more to the story.
All I know is I want a Diggs type on this team.
I just found this on Twitter. I didn't want to start another Jones
thread, so I'm putting it here (courtesy CBS Sports).
Most rushing 1st downs by QB through 4 games since 2000:
2006: Michael Vick 20
2022: Daniel Jones 18
2015: Cam Newton 17
I saw that stat too.
I honestly do think this is the best way to build around his ability, but the question will be can he hold up healthy while doing it. He is not as good if you take away the running for safety and health.
I saw that. So, Jones has the most time between the snap and release.
So, there are various ways to go with this stat and the pressure numbers.
Is Jones taking too long to process to deliver the ball? Are the receivers not getting enough separation? Is the play-calling a factor? Are Jones's mechanics a factor (longer motion, ball-tapping, stepping up into the pocket more)? Does Jones just not trust his receivers? Is Jones still conditioned not to make mistakes that he's too hesitant? Etc.
Or is Jones throwing a larger percentage of his passes after running from the rush, whether because the pocket brok down, or a plannned roll out?
You'll find EPA done differently in different places
but as far as I've seen, it doesn't account for Wr talent or lack there of aside from your typical YAC. It's not a really a "stat" anyways. Very in the weeds here but this post does a good job of breaking down the issues with it Link - ( New Window )
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Diggs was certainly a terrific acquisition, but he has a HoF throwing to him. Since Diggs arrived in Buffalo his catch % has increased, yards per game have increased, receptions per game have increased. He now has a guy who will put the ball anywhere for him to make a play.
I heard an interview with Diggs recently and he was asked to compare catching balls from Allen vs Cousins. He said Cousins threw a nice, easy ball to catch, but Allen throws the ball with such velocity and accuracy that he is willing to throw the ball anywhere, anytime.
I heard an interview from Odell saying how much better it was having Baker Mayfield throwing to him then past QBs(which would have only been Eli). How’s that work out for him.
RE: I just found this on Twitter. I didn't want to start another Jones
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Unless I have it wrong this assumption you make of Diggs' impact and improvement on the Buffalo offense, sounds like complete nonsense. You give nobody else credit for Buffalo's improvement in this area? Not coaching? Not Allen improvement?
iggs numbers you cite
RE: RE: I just found this on Twitter. I didn't want to start another Jones
thread, so I'm putting it here (courtesy CBS Sports).
Most rushing 1st downs by QB through 4 games since 2000:
2006: Michael Vick 20
2022: Daniel Jones 18
2015: Cam Newton 17
I saw that stat too.
I honestly do think this is the best way to build around his ability, but the question will be can he hold up healthy while doing it. He is not as good if you take away the running for safety and health.
The problem is, every time Jones starts running, he gets hurt. So this is not a weapon we can rely on. He's not like Lamar Jackson, who somehow seems to evade injury when he's running, at least so far.
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Unless I have it wrong this assumption you make of Diggs' impact and improvement on the Buffalo offense, sounds like complete nonsense. You give nobody else credit for Buffalo's improvement in this area? Not coaching? Not Allen improvement?
iggs numbers you cite
I think he's simply making a point, and a good one.
The post did not try to address all of the concerns of the NY pass game
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Unless I have it wrong this assumption you make of Diggs' impact and improvement on the Buffalo offense, sounds like complete nonsense. You give nobody else credit for Buffalo's improvement in this area? Not coaching? Not Allen improvement?
iggs numbers you cite
I think he's simply making a point, and a good one.
The post did not try to address all of the concerns of the NY pass game
I think everyone can agree if you add Diggs you're improving the pass offense. It's not much of a point, which is why he may feel he has to exaggerate the effect.
Nobody thinks Daniel Jones is in a good situation.
I heard an interview from Odell saying how much better it was having Baker Mayfield throwing to him then past QBs(which would have only been Eli). How’s that work out for him.
If you are gullible enough to buy that, I guess that explains why you posed the question...
Because everything football players say can be accepted
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Unless I have it wrong this assumption you make of Diggs' impact and improvement on the Buffalo offense, sounds like complete nonsense. You give nobody else credit for Buffalo's improvement in this area? Not coaching? Not Allen improvement?
iggs numbers you cite
And yet you don;t reduce any factors in which a QB has to deal with- pathetic coaching? Pathetic OLine? Pathetic receivers?
Just pointed out the impact of a elite WR and how it can change the equation. No mention of Diggs having as much of a impact with Jones. Simply that it would help significantly. How much would be a TBD.
I don't post much on QB's without looking at the whole equation. You should consider adding this approach to your evaluations. You come across better as a someone with more credibility and your conclusions would carry more weight imv.
You've got 2 running QBs with horrible pocket presence on the left side.
Jones is not terrible when he has time and his 1st read is available. So he's below average, but adequate, with a clean pocket. Obviously he's atrocious if he's pressured or he has to go off script.
RE: RE: I just found this on Twitter. I didn't want to start another Jones
It does highlight how dink and dunk our passing game has been but there are so many factors beyond Jones when it comes to our lack of a vertical passing game.
The % of dropbacks under pressure/no pressure is the more important stat of the two through 4 weeks imo, and it's scary how bad this OL has still been in that area.
This is a solid counterpoint.
It's hard to figure out how much blame/credit should be assigned to the QB in situations like these.
Giants OL is still bad and new but I think it wouldn't look that bad without the Dallas game.
Quote:
This is a solid counterpoint.
It's hard to figure out how much blame/credit should be assigned to the QB in situations like these.
There’s so much noise in these stats. Things like PA. Shit you can do a deep sell PA have three full seconds and get hit by the time you get your neck around . It’s very offensive scheme and talent dependent.
Anthony Reinhard
@reinhardNFL
·
2m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
EPA is really just a measure of the efficiency of a play, so to the extent that a WR can improve that, it is baked in
Don't people think it helps have a upper tier/elite option to help with things? How about just a good quality trio.
Right now the Giants are having to really reach to manufacture passing yards imv.
Same amount of calculation for how garbage our QB is.
Quote:
I’m guessing no.
Anthony Reinhard
@reinhardNFL
·
2m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
EPA is really just a measure of the efficiency of a play, so to the extent that a WR can improve that, it is baked in
I'd like to see the formula for that.
Easy to see when he's making bad/slow decisions. Especially when you watch him on TV with a limited view or replays in slow motion. This also aligns with what some in the media also say. Bias confirmed!
I saw that. So, Jones has the most time between the snap and release.
So, there are various ways to go with this stat and the pressure numbers.
Is Jones taking too long to process to deliver the ball? Are the receivers not getting enough separation? Is the play-calling a factor? Are Jones's mechanics a factor (longer motion, ball-tapping, stepping up into the pocket more)? Does Jones just not trust his receivers? Is Jones still conditioned not to make mistakes that he's too hesitant? Etc.
Quote:
In comment 15848596 Returning Video Tapes said:
Quote:
I’m guessing no.
Anthony Reinhard
@reinhardNFL
·
2m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
EPA is really just a measure of the efficiency of a play, so to the extent that a WR can improve that, it is baked in
I'd like to see the formula for that.
Yeh me too. That’s like a non answer.
Let's see what happens when/if some guys make it back on the field.
Quote:
I’m guessing no.
Same amount of calculation for how garbage our QB is.
This is weak considering any fan with a pulse would agree that Jones at qb is much better than any player at wr. Even if jones is 19th or whatever the fuck number some of need to come up with, the wrs ain’t 19th.
The wrs are 32nd. And it’s not even close.
If jones wasn’t making any plays at all and scoring 12 pts per game I’d say nothing.
Quote:
In comment 15848596 Returning Video Tapes said:
Quote:
I’m guessing no.
Anthony Reinhard
@reinhardNFL
·
2m
Replying to
@WexlerRules
EPA is really just a measure of the efficiency of a play, so to the extent that a WR can improve that, it is baked in
I'd like to see the formula for that.
His twitter handle @reinhardNFL and he responds
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Golloday sure can't get separation.
We desperately need Toney and Robinson to get healthy. That can change things.
Golloday sure can't get separation.
We desperately need Toney and Robinson to get healthy. That can change things.
Their run times mean nothing. There are college WR's who run faster than that not even on practice squads. They are just shitty receivers
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Diggs was certainly a terrific acquisition, but he has a HoF throwing to him. Since Diggs arrived in Buffalo his catch % has increased, yards per game have increased, receptions per game have increased. He now has a guy who will put the ball anywhere for him to make a play.
I heard an interview with Diggs recently and he was asked to compare catching balls from Allen vs Cousins. He said Cousins threw a nice, easy ball to catch, but Allen throws the ball with such velocity and accuracy that he is willing to throw the ball anywhere, anytime.
In 2019, Diggs had 63 1130 17.9. So the Vikings used him a different way. Still a highly productive though used differently receiver.
BD seems like he favor the quick hitters. Right now there does not seem to be much to help Jones out.
Like I always tell you with stats. Baseline. Then you do the work. Sometimes it checks out as valid and sometimes more to the story.
All I know is I want a Diggs type on this team.
Most rushing 1st downs by QB through 4 games since 2000:
2006: Michael Vick 20
2022: Daniel Jones 18
2015: Cam Newton 17
Most rushing 1st downs by QB through 4 games since 2000:
2006: Michael Vick 20
2022: Daniel Jones 18
2015: Cam Newton 17
I saw that stat too.
I honestly do think this is the best way to build around his ability, but the question will be can he hold up healthy while doing it. He is not as good if you take away the running for safety and health.
Quote:
I saw that. So, Jones has the most time between the snap and release.
So, there are various ways to go with this stat and the pressure numbers.
Is Jones taking too long to process to deliver the ball? Are the receivers not getting enough separation? Is the play-calling a factor? Are Jones's mechanics a factor (longer motion, ball-tapping, stepping up into the pocket more)? Does Jones just not trust his receivers? Is Jones still conditioned not to make mistakes that he's too hesitant? Etc.
Or is Jones throwing a larger percentage of his passes after running from the rush, whether because the pocket brok down, or a plannned roll out?
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Diggs was certainly a terrific acquisition, but he has a HoF throwing to him. Since Diggs arrived in Buffalo his catch % has increased, yards per game have increased, receptions per game have increased. He now has a guy who will put the ball anywhere for him to make a play.
I heard an interview with Diggs recently and he was asked to compare catching balls from Allen vs Cousins. He said Cousins threw a nice, easy ball to catch, but Allen throws the ball with such velocity and accuracy that he is willing to throw the ball anywhere, anytime.
I heard an interview from Odell saying how much better it was having Baker Mayfield throwing to him then past QBs(which would have only been Eli). How’s that work out for him.
Most rushing 1st downs by QB through 4 games since 2000:
2006: Michael Vick 20
2022: Daniel Jones 18
2015: Cam Newton 17
Now compare their passing stats during those seasons. It's literally all DJ does.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Unless I have it wrong this assumption you make of Diggs' impact and improvement on the Buffalo offense, sounds like complete nonsense. You give nobody else credit for Buffalo's improvement in this area? Not coaching? Not Allen improvement?
iggs numbers you cite
Quote:
thread, so I'm putting it here (courtesy CBS Sports).
Most rushing 1st downs by QB through 4 games since 2000:
2006: Michael Vick 20
2022: Daniel Jones 18
2015: Cam Newton 17
I saw that stat too.
I honestly do think this is the best way to build around his ability, but the question will be can he hold up healthy while doing it. He is not as good if you take away the running for safety and health.
The problem is, every time Jones starts running, he gets hurt. So this is not a weapon we can rely on. He's not like Lamar Jackson, who somehow seems to evade injury when he's running, at least so far.
Quote:
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Unless I have it wrong this assumption you make of Diggs' impact and improvement on the Buffalo offense, sounds like complete nonsense. You give nobody else credit for Buffalo's improvement in this area? Not coaching? Not Allen improvement?
iggs numbers you cite
The post did not try to address all of the concerns of the NY pass game
Quote:
In comment 15848673 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Unless I have it wrong this assumption you make of Diggs' impact and improvement on the Buffalo offense, sounds like complete nonsense. You give nobody else credit for Buffalo's improvement in this area? Not coaching? Not Allen improvement?
iggs numbers you cite
I think he's simply making a point, and a good one.
The post did not try to address all of the concerns of the NY pass game
I think everyone can agree if you add Diggs you're improving the pass offense. It's not much of a point, which is why he may feel he has to exaggerate the effect.
Nobody thinks Daniel Jones is in a good situation.
I heard an interview from Odell saying how much better it was having Baker Mayfield throwing to him then past QBs(which would have only been Eli). How’s that work out for him.
If you are gullible enough to buy that, I guess that explains why you posed the question...
Quote:
Buff. adding about a 100 yards in offense/10 points per game adding Diggs in 2020.
2020 Diggs 127 receptions 1535 12.1 yards.
Seems like a lot of quick hitters.
The comparison is not Jones/Allen talent wise just how much a elite WR can help with things and impact stats.
Wandale/Toney please help out.
Unless I have it wrong this assumption you make of Diggs' impact and improvement on the Buffalo offense, sounds like complete nonsense. You give nobody else credit for Buffalo's improvement in this area? Not coaching? Not Allen improvement?
iggs numbers you cite
And yet you don;t reduce any factors in which a QB has to deal with- pathetic coaching? Pathetic OLine? Pathetic receivers?
I don't post much on QB's without looking at the whole equation. You should consider adding this approach to your evaluations. You come across better as a someone with more credibility and your conclusions would carry more weight imv.
Jones is not terrible when he has time and his 1st read is available. So he's below average, but adequate, with a clean pocket. Obviously he's atrocious if he's pressured or he has to go off script.
Quote:
thread, so I'm putting it here (courtesy CBS Sports).
Most rushing 1st downs by QB through 4 games since 2000:
2006: Michael Vick 20
2022: Daniel Jones 18
2015: Cam Newton 17
Now compare their passing stats during those seasons. It's literally all DJ does.
Vick in 2006 thru four games passing
45/90, 50%, 2 pass TD's., 2 INT's 522 pass yards (130.5 per)
Anything else?