[Watching from the birds eye, Jones simply did not see open targets or he was too hesitant to let it rip. I say that from the comfort of my chair, whereas he had multiple elite, enormous athletes bearing down on him trying to rip his head off behind a shaky offensive line. But at some point, and Brian Daboll has stated this as well, Jones will need to alter his mindset. There is too much hesitation in his game, and it almost cost the team. Sure, he is playing with a sub-par group of pass catchers, but he needs to be more aggressive.
Jones is not a starting QB you can win with. Why people can’t see that 4 years in and want to waste more years and more cap space on him is insane. If he played any other position on this team or had any minor character flaw the same people supporting him would be running him out of town.
Your view imo is the not what he is saying. He didn't say signing Tannehill was a mistake as an isoalted sttaement which you are implyimng. The 1st two sentences are oppsoite of what you are saying:
-----------------------
"The ceiling being a guy who absolutely needs the team around him to be top notch. This is a tough kind of player to plan around when it comes to long term finances."
-----------------------
First off do you have the link for his full comments? No problem if you don't. But you are providing me his comments form either Carolina or Tennesse is my guess? I could be wrong.
1-- He is saying you can win if surrounding talent is top notch.
2-- He is saying for long-term success don't pay him an obscene long-term contract like Tennessee did to Tanehill.
=======================
None of this is saying that Jones is not a starting QB.
I'm not franchising him. I can't believe someone suggested that., If he could be had for a reasonable deal (ie. 2 years and $35-40 million), then yes. I would also have no objection to taking a rookie QB as well as re-signing Jones to see if they can upgrade the position.
At this moment I am not. But if he has a pretty good year why not for 1 year if you can't get the QB you want in the draft? Where do you think this team is going in 2023?
The QB is the most important position in football. If you are unsure of the evaluation and feel you need another year to evaluate - then whats the big deal for 1 year if you don't think you can get better?
If the Giants draft a QB and paly him right away in 2023, you think the Giants are a playoff team in 2023? SO where do you think we're going in 2023?
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
I'll be interested to see how Levis, Hooker, and Ward stack up against Rosen in his draft year. Haskins was not a good prospect.
“Where do you think this team is going next year?”
They’re 3-1 right now and not many people expected that. Even if they end up only winning 6 games this year they in all likely hood will be better next year. They’d be even better with an upgrade at QB.
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
I'll be interested to see how Levis, Hooker, and Ward stack up against Rosen in his draft year. Haskins was not a good prospect.
My comment was in response to someone saying that the 5th QB in this draft has more upside than Jones. Rosen was the 4th QB selected and Haskins the 3rd (I think). My point was only that the 5th QB could be a complete bust with less upside than Jones. Not that the Giants should be scared to select a QB in case he is a bust.
Ultimately, Schoen and Daboll were in Buffalo when Josh Allen was selected and developed. I have faith in them to make the correct decision, until they prove otherwise
RE: “Where do you think this team is going next year?”
They’re 3-1 right now and not many people expected that. Even if they end up only winning 6 games this year they in all likely hood will be better next year. They’d be even better with an upgrade at QB.
More than likely they won't be better if their schedule gets tougher.
The vegas line was 7.5 for Giants this year. Do you think they have a shot for 8 or 9 this year?
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
Indeed.
A lot of posters are taking this absurd position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure thing replacement.
And since you can ever guarantee that, especially with college prospects, Jones is essentially the QB unless we replace him with a known commodity super-star like a Rodgers, Allen, etc.
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
You keep asking the Sy question but ignored my question about Sy’s other comments this year. Why’s that?
RE: RE: RE: I'd be interested in keeping him as the backup QB
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
You keep asking the Sy question but ignored my question about Sy’s other comments this year. Why’s that?
I think this draft isn't as deep as once thought. Picking middle of the first, we might be better off grabbing a CB or WR. If Jones could be had for the prices of the 15th ranked QB in the league on a 3 year deal I likely would be on board.
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
Indeed.
A lot of posters are taking this absurd position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure thing replacement.
And since you can ever guarantee that, especially with college prospects, Jones is essentially the QB unless we replace him with a known commodity super-star like a Rodgers, Allen, etc.
It's easy for you to sit behind a couch with an anonymous name and scream for guys like Wilson. Or want Trubisky instead of Jones etc - and if you are wrong you dont'; have to deal with the consequences.
and have a crappy draft pick. Bottom line you are asking us to extrapolate the Giants season over the next 13 games. If that is the case, the Giants will have 12-13 wins and they will be signing Jones to a huge deal.
I think I will wait to see what actually happens this year. The Giants will be lucky to be 4-4 over this next stretch of games. We don't know where we will be picking and how the 23 QB class looks.
I don't either. But why wouldn't you think this has something to do with our conversation?
If they have Jones this year and win 8 or 9 games and next year they win less, wouldn't it more than likely mean they have had a worse season?
Or are you going to suggest records mean nothing?
You have zero cohesive thoughts in your head. You said that the Giants are not going to be going anywhere next year and will absolutely be worse next year. How so? We don’t know their schedule, what players the teams on that schedule will lose, what players the Giants add, and what a second year with this staff will look like.
It’s likely the Giants will be better next year. Does that result in more wins this year who knows, but to suggest we should burn another year evaluating Jones because this teams not going anywhere next year is asinine.
I don't either. But why wouldn't you think this has something to do with our conversation?
If they have Jones this year and win 8 or 9 games and next year they win less, wouldn't it more than likely mean they have had a worse season?
Or are you going to suggest records mean nothing?
You have zero cohesive thoughts in your head. You said that the Giants are not going to be going anywhere next year and will absolutely be worse next year. How so? We don’t know their schedule, what players the teams on that schedule will lose, what players the Giants add, and what a second year with this staff will look like.
It’s likely the Giants will be better next year. Does that result in more wins this year who knows, but to suggest we should burn another year evaluating Jones because this teams not going anywhere next year is asinine.
If they win 8 or 9 games this year they will be worse next. I'll be happy to put a wager on with you if they win 8 or 9 next year and then bring in a rookie QB that isn't the number 1 QB draft pick.
1. I took this game as a reminder. A reminder that the team itself is not very good and they’re not ready for a long winning streak. They are competitive and I do think they’re heading in the right direction. I don’t say that with a moral victory kind of tone. I firmly believe it is the truth. The change can be felt and they’re on the move upward. But bad teams find ways to lose games. In the fourth quarter, NYG was down 20-13. On 2nd-and-8, Shepard drops a ball that would have been a deep completion. Then they get flagged for a delay-of-game penalty. Then Golladay drops a perfectly placed ball on 3rd-and-13 that had a shot at gaining the first down. That is the kind of drive at the most important point of game that losing teams put together. It’s not completely out of their system yet.
I forget if there's a team option on Taylor for 2023.
My thoughts exactly. Keep Jones and draft a QB who hopefully beats him out. But if the rookie struggles, or takes some time to develop, Jones is a much better option than the likes of the Tyrod Taylors of the world
It's easy for you to sit behind a couch with an anonymous name and scream for guys like Wilson. Or want Trubisky instead of Jones etc - and if you are wrong you dont'; have to deal with the consequences.
Consequences? NFL GMs aren't going miles into the earth to pull out coal. They are paid millions of dollars to take risks and get it right. As long as they don't do something stupid (e.g. sexual harassment), they very likely get paid the remaining years on their contract if fired.
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
Indeed.
A lot of posters are taking this absurd position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure thing replacement.
And since you can ever guarantee that, especially with college prospects, Jones is essentially the QB unless we replace him with a known commodity super-star like a Rodgers, Allen, etc.
Reading comprehension, bw. I am not taking the position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure fire replacement. I have said I would try and retain Jones at a reasonable contract, and would open to drafting a QB as well. My point in bringing up Rosen and Haskins is in response to a poster stating that the 5th QB in this draft has more upside than Jones. Rosen was the 4th QB picked, and Haskins I believe the 3rd. Both of them are examples of what can happen worse than Jones.
Retaining Jones and drafting a QB if Schoen/Daboll find the right guy is a way of hedging your bets, and lessening the downside risk if the new QB is a total bust.
Joe Judge got $25 million for sucking for two years. He doesn’t have to work again if he doesn’t want. The consequences for coaches and GMs is nothing compared to players.
Next year. It doesn’t mean the team is worse. Not sure why you can’t grasp this concept. You also have zero idea what next year will look like.
I asked that question of you not sure why you are having such a hard time reading? I said it right there. But it didn't fit yoru narrative, so you just ignored, right?
===========
Or are you going to suggest records mean nothing?
===================
And ofc you are going to downplay records - I expected yo would which is why I had asked the above question. SO even if the record is worse you will just say "They are better" because you say so.
============================
By the way-- I'm copying my 11:26 am reponse to you that you have avoided.
Your view imo is the not what he is saying. He didn't say signing Tannehill was a mistake as an isoalted sttaement which you are implyimng. The 1st two sentences are oppsoite of what you are saying:
-----------------------
"The ceiling being a guy who absolutely needs the team around him to be top notch. This is a tough kind of player to plan around when it comes to long term finances."
-----------------------
First off do you have the link for his full comments? No problem if you don't. But you are providing me his comments form either Carolina or Tennesse is my guess? I could be wrong.
1-- He is saying you can win if surrounding talent is top notch.
2-- He is saying for long-term success don't pay him an obscene long-term contract like Tennessee did to Tanehill.
=======================
None of this is saying that Jones is not a starting QB.
It's easy for you to sit behind a couch with an anonymous name and scream for guys like Wilson. Or want Trubisky instead of Jones etc - and if you are wrong you dont'; have to deal with the consequences.
Consequences? NFL GMs aren't going miles into the earth to pull out coal. They are paid millions of dollars to take risks and get it right. As long as they don't do something stupid (e.g. sexual harassment), they very likely get paid the remaining years on their contract if fired.
It's a very nice safety net.
Consequences of getting fired and possibly never getting rehired as a GM. Unless you think they dont want the job veyr long?
Your use of lines of "=" (of varying lengths, too) to break your posts into sections makes the entire post more difficult to read. It starts to feel like a thread within a thread.
Just sharing some feedback, not meant as an attack.
Your use of lines of "=" (of varying lengths, too) to break your posts into sections makes the entire post more difficult to read. It starts to feel like a thread within a thread.
Just sharing some feedback, not meant as an attack.
I'm the one agreeing with Sy after his Dallas comments and you're the one saying he's not starting NFL QB.
I'm the one saying wait until season ends which SY has suggested and you criticize me?
LMAO.
And then even more laughable you want to throw away wins and losses while in an argument with me so you could use your subjective opinion next year whether a team is better or not?
LMAO.
You've got to be kidding?? I'm quoting a pro scout in regards to Jones and you're blasting me. Hahahahaha Man, you are delusional.
I'm the one agreeing with Sy after his Dallas comments and you're the one saying he's not starting NFL QB.
I'm the one saying wait until season ends which SY has suggested and you criticize me?
LMAO.
And then even more laughable you want to throw away wins and losses while in an argument with me so you could use your subjective opinion next year whether a team is better or not?
LMAO.
You've got to be kidding?? I'm quoting a pro scout in regards to Jones and you're blasting me. Hahahahaha Man, you are delusional.
Love SY, but let's stop pretending as if NFL GMs and scouts don't make mistakes. There are more vade draft picks than good draft picks. There are more bad free agent signings than good free agent signings.
A lot of posters are taking this absurd position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure thing replacement.
And since you can ever guarantee that, especially with college prospects, Jones is essentially the QB unless we replace him with a known commodity super-star like a Rodgers, Allen, etc.
Reading comprehension, bw. I am not taking the position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure fire replacement. I have said I would try and retain Jones at a reasonable contract, and would open to drafting a QB as well. My point in bringing up Rosen and Haskins is in response to a poster stating that the 5th QB in this draft has more upside than Jones. Rosen was the 4th QB picked, and Haskins I believe the 3rd. Both of them are examples of what can happen worse than Jones.
Retaining Jones and drafting a QB if Schoen/Daboll find the right guy is a way of hedging your bets, and lessening the downside risk if the new QB is a total bust.
I'm the one agreeing with Sy after his Dallas comments and you're the one saying he's not starting NFL QB.
I'm the one saying wait until season ends which SY has suggested and you criticize me?
LMAO.
And then even more laughable you want to throw away wins and losses while in an argument with me so you could use your subjective opinion next year whether a team is better or not?
LMAO.
You've got to be kidding?? I'm quoting a pro scout in regards to Jones and you're blasting me. Hahahahaha Man, you are delusional.
Love SY, but let's stop pretending as if NFL GMs and scouts don't make mistakes. There are more vade draft picks than good draft picks. There are more bad free agent signings than good free agent signings.
Yes but as I told toptenhammer on this thread--
you get posters like AR and others that throw insults at the opinions.
I'm agreeing with SY and yet the moron AR is insulting me.
That's over-the-top.
We can disagree but i find some of these Jones haters (not all) insult if you don't agree that "Jones sucks and without a doubt he should be dumped."
I agree I would love someone better. Bottomline is that you can't trash those of us that agree with Sy. Disagree; sure. But trash; it's laughable to do that in the manner some of these delusional posters do.
Mike lombardi is one as well. His claim to fame was driving late coach Walsh around to his various daily activites and picking up his dry cleaning. Not kidding.
I don't know who Si is but, if he in the giants organization there might be a conflict of interest there regarding Jones
doesn't matter because the season is only 25% completed.
The Jones-basher are panicking. They're so afraid of being proven wrong that they're calling for an early vote, so to speak. They know it's irrelevant, but... Get it while you can - ( New Window )
doesn't matter because the season is only 25% completed.
The Jones-basher are panicking. They're so afraid of being proven wrong that they're calling for an early vote, so to speak. They know it's irrelevant, but... Get it while you can - ( New Window )
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
RE: RE: RE: why waste time on something like this.
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: RE: why waste time on something like this.
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: why waste time on something like this.
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
No they didnt. They wanted to take a season to see Jones for themselves
RE: RE: RE: RE: why waste time on something like this.
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
Oh ok. They never saw Jones before . A pro coach and gm are making decisions based on he said she said.
Why did they sign Taylor to a two year deal for 19 mil (with incentives) which includes 6 mil in playing incentives? Why
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: why waste time on something like this.
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
No they didnt. They wanted to take a season to see Jones for themselves
If they were that interested they exercise the option. That’s what it’s for...
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
No they didnt. They wanted to take a season to see Jones for themselves
You know all these guys know how to watch tape, right? And all the coaches and execs talk to each other, right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: why waste time on something like this.
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
No they didnt. They wanted to take a season to see Jones for themselves
You know all these guys know how to watch tape, right? And all the coaches and execs talk to each other, right?
Yes and it is possible that some they trust said that Garrett offense and Judge’s philosophy were making him look worse than he was. It was telling that they did not break the bank for a starting QB. You can’t win without a good one and one Super Bowl winner (Wilson) and one guy who was the sole reason his team made the playoffs (Watson) were available this offseason. Despite the cap situation, if one was available that instantly made us a playoff team Schoen would have found a way to make it work.
Quote:
[quote]
[Watching from the birds eye, Jones simply did not see open targets or he was too hesitant to let it rip. I say that from the comfort of my chair, whereas he had multiple elite, enormous athletes bearing down on him trying to rip his head off behind a shaky offensive line. But at some point, and Brian Daboll has stated this as well, Jones will need to alter his mindset. There is too much hesitation in his game, and it almost cost the team. Sure, he is playing with a sub-par group of pass catchers, but he needs to be more aggressive.
Jones is not a starting QB you can win with. Why people can’t see that 4 years in and want to waste more years and more cap space on him is insane. If he played any other position on this team or had any minor character flaw the same people supporting him would be running him out of town.
Your view imo is the not what he is saying. He didn't say signing Tannehill was a mistake as an isoalted sttaement which you are implyimng. The 1st two sentences are oppsoite of what you are saying:
-----------------------
"The ceiling being a guy who absolutely needs the team around him to be top notch. This is a tough kind of player to plan around when it comes to long term finances."
-----------------------
First off do you have the link for his full comments? No problem if you don't. But you are providing me his comments form either Carolina or Tennesse is my guess? I could be wrong.
1-- He is saying you can win if surrounding talent is top notch.
2-- He is saying for long-term success don't pay him an obscene long-term contract like Tennessee did to Tanehill.
=======================
None of this is saying that Jones is not a starting QB.
At this moment I am not. But if he has a pretty good year why not for 1 year if you can't get the QB you want in the draft? Where do you think this team is going in 2023?
The QB is the most important position in football. If you are unsure of the evaluation and feel you need another year to evaluate - then whats the big deal for 1 year if you don't think you can get better?
If the Giants draft a QB and paly him right away in 2023, you think the Giants are a playoff team in 2023? SO where do you think we're going in 2023?
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
I'll be interested to see how Levis, Hooker, and Ward stack up against Rosen in his draft year. Haskins was not a good prospect.
Quote:
Dwayne Haskins and Josh Rosen say hi
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
I'll be interested to see how Levis, Hooker, and Ward stack up against Rosen in his draft year. Haskins was not a good prospect.
My comment was in response to someone saying that the 5th QB in this draft has more upside than Jones. Rosen was the 4th QB selected and Haskins the 3rd (I think). My point was only that the 5th QB could be a complete bust with less upside than Jones. Not that the Giants should be scared to select a QB in case he is a bust.
Ultimately, Schoen and Daboll were in Buffalo when Josh Allen was selected and developed. I have faith in them to make the correct decision, until they prove otherwise
More than likely they won't be better if their schedule gets tougher.
The vegas line was 7.5 for Giants this year. Do you think they have a shot for 8 or 9 this year?
What are the powerball numbers?
What are the powerball numbers?
Do you think the Giants have a shot to win 8 or 9 games this year?
And I think he's an amazing teammate, gritty competitor and super good dude
But I am not paying him to be my starting QB
I am not arguing - so you don't agree with Sy when he said about Jones "He can do it."
===========
And you dont' agree with the comments below in regards to positive pile "when thinking about where his status will reside in January."?
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
Quote:
Dwayne Haskins and Josh Rosen say hi
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
Indeed.
A lot of posters are taking this absurd position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure thing replacement.
And since you can ever guarantee that, especially with college prospects, Jones is essentially the QB unless we replace him with a known commodity super-star like a Rodgers, Allen, etc.
Quote:
More thank likely won’t be better a whole year from now?
What are the powerball numbers?
Do you think the Giants have a shot to win 8 or 9 games this year?
No I do not. But that has nothing to do with 2023.
Quote:
I forget if there's a team option on Taylor for 2023.
I am not arguing - so you don't agree with Sy when he said about Jones "He can do it."
===========
And you dont' agree with the comments below in regards to positive pile "when thinking about where his status will reside in January."?
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
You keep asking the Sy question but ignored my question about Sy’s other comments this year. Why’s that?
Quote:
In comment 15849699 JonC said:
Quote:
I forget if there's a team option on Taylor for 2023.
I am not arguing - so you don't agree with Sy when he said about Jones "He can do it."
===========
And you dont' agree with the comments below in regards to positive pile "when thinking about where his status will reside in January."?
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January."
You keep asking the Sy question but ignored my question about Sy’s other comments this year. Why’s that?
I did. Read my post at 11:26 am.
I didn't notice you sent to me before.
Quote:
In comment 15849693 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
More thank likely won’t be better a whole year from now?
What are the powerball numbers?
Do you think the Giants have a shot to win 8 or 9 games this year?
No I do not. But that has nothing to do with 2023.
I don't either. But why wouldn't you think this has something to do with our conversation?
If they have Jones this year and win 8 or 9 games and next year they win less, wouldn't it more than likely mean they have had a worse season?
Or are you going to suggest records mean nothing?
Quote:
In comment 15849522 KDavies said:
Quote:
Dwayne Haskins and Josh Rosen say hi
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
Indeed.
A lot of posters are taking this absurd position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure thing replacement.
And since you can ever guarantee that, especially with college prospects, Jones is essentially the QB unless we replace him with a known commodity super-star like a Rodgers, Allen, etc.
It's easy for you to sit behind a couch with an anonymous name and scream for guys like Wilson. Or want Trubisky instead of Jones etc - and if you are wrong you dont'; have to deal with the consequences.
I think I will wait to see what actually happens this year. The Giants will be lucky to be 4-4 over this next stretch of games. We don't know where we will be picking and how the 23 QB class looks.
I don't either. But why wouldn't you think this has something to do with our conversation?
If they have Jones this year and win 8 or 9 games and next year they win less, wouldn't it more than likely mean they have had a worse season?
Or are you going to suggest records mean nothing?
You have zero cohesive thoughts in your head. You said that the Giants are not going to be going anywhere next year and will absolutely be worse next year. How so? We don’t know their schedule, what players the teams on that schedule will lose, what players the Giants add, and what a second year with this staff will look like.
It’s likely the Giants will be better next year. Does that result in more wins this year who knows, but to suggest we should burn another year evaluating Jones because this teams not going anywhere next year is asinine.
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I don't either. But why wouldn't you think this has something to do with our conversation?
If they have Jones this year and win 8 or 9 games and next year they win less, wouldn't it more than likely mean they have had a worse season?
Or are you going to suggest records mean nothing?
You have zero cohesive thoughts in your head. You said that the Giants are not going to be going anywhere next year and will absolutely be worse next year. How so? We don’t know their schedule, what players the teams on that schedule will lose, what players the Giants add, and what a second year with this staff will look like.
It’s likely the Giants will be better next year. Does that result in more wins this year who knows, but to suggest we should burn another year evaluating Jones because this teams not going anywhere next year is asinine.
If they win 8 or 9 games this year they will be worse next. I'll be happy to put a wager on with you if they win 8 or 9 next year and then bring in a rookie QB that isn't the number 1 QB draft pick.
They wont; be a playoff team next year.
Here's another quote from SY:
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
1. I took this game as a reminder. A reminder that the team itself is not very good and they’re not ready for a long winning streak. They are competitive and I do think they’re heading in the right direction. I don’t say that with a moral victory kind of tone. I firmly believe it is the truth. The change can be felt and they’re on the move upward. But bad teams find ways to lose games. In the fourth quarter, NYG was down 20-13. On 2nd-and-8, Shepard drops a ball that would have been a deep completion. Then they get flagged for a delay-of-game penalty. Then Golladay drops a perfectly placed ball on 3rd-and-13 that had a shot at gaining the first down. That is the kind of drive at the most important point of game that losing teams put together. It’s not completely out of their system yet.
My thoughts exactly. Keep Jones and draft a QB who hopefully beats him out. But if the rookie struggles, or takes some time to develop, Jones is a much better option than the likes of the Tyrod Taylors of the world
It's easy for you to sit behind a couch with an anonymous name and scream for guys like Wilson. Or want Trubisky instead of Jones etc - and if you are wrong you dont'; have to deal with the consequences.
Consequences? NFL GMs aren't going miles into the earth to pull out coal. They are paid millions of dollars to take risks and get it right. As long as they don't do something stupid (e.g. sexual harassment), they very likely get paid the remaining years on their contract if fired.
It's a very nice safety net.
In 2017, what pick did the Chiefs have before moving up for Mahomes?
In 2018, what pick did the Bills start with before moving up (twice) to the spot where they took Allen?
Were either of them positioned to take their next franchise QB initially?
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In comment 15849522 KDavies said:
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Dwayne Haskins and Josh Rosen say hi
By this logic you would never draft a quarterback. Hell, by this logic we would never have drafted Jones in the first place! Who had more "warts" than he did as a top 6 QB pick?
Indeed.
A lot of posters are taking this absurd position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure thing replacement.
And since you can ever guarantee that, especially with college prospects, Jones is essentially the QB unless we replace him with a known commodity super-star like a Rodgers, Allen, etc.
Reading comprehension, bw. I am not taking the position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure fire replacement. I have said I would try and retain Jones at a reasonable contract, and would open to drafting a QB as well. My point in bringing up Rosen and Haskins is in response to a poster stating that the 5th QB in this draft has more upside than Jones. Rosen was the 4th QB picked, and Haskins I believe the 3rd. Both of them are examples of what can happen worse than Jones.
Retaining Jones and drafting a QB if Schoen/Daboll find the right guy is a way of hedging your bets, and lessening the downside risk if the new QB is a total bust.
I asked that question of you not sure why you are having such a hard time reading? I said it right there. But it didn't fit yoru narrative, so you just ignored, right?
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Or are you going to suggest records mean nothing?
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And ofc you are going to downplay records - I expected yo would which is why I had asked the above question. SO even if the record is worse you will just say "They are better" because you say so.
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By the way-- I'm copying my 11:26 am reponse to you that you have avoided.
Your view imo is the not what he is saying. He didn't say signing Tannehill was a mistake as an isoalted sttaement which you are implyimng. The 1st two sentences are oppsoite of what you are saying:
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"The ceiling being a guy who absolutely needs the team around him to be top notch. This is a tough kind of player to plan around when it comes to long term finances."
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First off do you have the link for his full comments? No problem if you don't. But you are providing me his comments form either Carolina or Tennesse is my guess? I could be wrong.
1-- He is saying you can win if surrounding talent is top notch.
2-- He is saying for long-term success don't pay him an obscene long-term contract like Tennessee did to Tanehill.
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None of this is saying that Jones is not a starting QB.
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It's easy for you to sit behind a couch with an anonymous name and scream for guys like Wilson. Or want Trubisky instead of Jones etc - and if you are wrong you dont'; have to deal with the consequences.
Consequences? NFL GMs aren't going miles into the earth to pull out coal. They are paid millions of dollars to take risks and get it right. As long as they don't do something stupid (e.g. sexual harassment), they very likely get paid the remaining years on their contract if fired.
It's a very nice safety net.
Consequences of getting fired and possibly never getting rehired as a GM. Unless you think they dont want the job veyr long?
Just sharing some feedback, not meant as an attack.
Just sharing some feedback, not meant as an attack.
Okay sorry.
Yeah right.
I'm the one agreeing with Sy after his Dallas comments and you're the one saying he's not starting NFL QB.
I'm the one saying wait until season ends which SY has suggested and you criticize me?
LMAO.
And then even more laughable you want to throw away wins and losses while in an argument with me so you could use your subjective opinion next year whether a team is better or not?
LMAO.
You've got to be kidding?? I'm quoting a pro scout in regards to Jones and you're blasting me. Hahahahaha Man, you are delusional.
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The dumbest person on this website
Yeah right.
I'm the one agreeing with Sy after his Dallas comments and you're the one saying he's not starting NFL QB.
I'm the one saying wait until season ends which SY has suggested and you criticize me?
LMAO.
And then even more laughable you want to throw away wins and losses while in an argument with me so you could use your subjective opinion next year whether a team is better or not?
LMAO.
You've got to be kidding?? I'm quoting a pro scout in regards to Jones and you're blasting me. Hahahahaha Man, you are delusional.
Love SY, but let's stop pretending as if NFL GMs and scouts don't make mistakes. There are more vade draft picks than good draft picks. There are more bad free agent signings than good free agent signings.
Indeed.
A lot of posters are taking this absurd position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure thing replacement.
And since you can ever guarantee that, especially with college prospects, Jones is essentially the QB unless we replace him with a known commodity super-star like a Rodgers, Allen, etc.
Reading comprehension, bw. I am not taking the position that you can't replace Jones unless there is a sure fire replacement. I have said I would try and retain Jones at a reasonable contract, and would open to drafting a QB as well. My point in bringing up Rosen and Haskins is in response to a poster stating that the 5th QB in this draft has more upside than Jones. Rosen was the 4th QB picked, and Haskins I believe the 3rd. Both of them are examples of what can happen worse than Jones.
Retaining Jones and drafting a QB if Schoen/Daboll find the right guy is a way of hedging your bets, and lessening the downside risk if the new QB is a total bust.
Fair enough. I get your POV.
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In comment 15849804 ajr2456 said:
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The dumbest person on this website
Yeah right.
I'm the one agreeing with Sy after his Dallas comments and you're the one saying he's not starting NFL QB.
I'm the one saying wait until season ends which SY has suggested and you criticize me?
LMAO.
And then even more laughable you want to throw away wins and losses while in an argument with me so you could use your subjective opinion next year whether a team is better or not?
LMAO.
You've got to be kidding?? I'm quoting a pro scout in regards to Jones and you're blasting me. Hahahahaha Man, you are delusional.
Love SY, but let's stop pretending as if NFL GMs and scouts don't make mistakes. There are more vade draft picks than good draft picks. There are more bad free agent signings than good free agent signings.
Yes but as I told toptenhammer on this thread--
you get posters like AR and others that throw insults at the opinions.
I'm agreeing with SY and yet the moron AR is insulting me.
That's over-the-top.
We can disagree but i find some of these Jones haters (not all) insult if you don't agree that "Jones sucks and without a doubt he should be dumped."
I agree I would love someone better. Bottomline is that you can't trash those of us that agree with Sy. Disagree; sure. But trash; it's laughable to do that in the manner some of these delusional posters do.
I don't know who Si is but, if he in the giants organization there might be a conflict of interest there regarding Jones
Get it while you can - ( New Window )
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doesn't matter because the season is only 25% completed.
The Jones-basher are panicking. They're so afraid of being proven wrong that they're calling for an early vote, so to speak. They know it's irrelevant, but... Get it while you can - ( New Window )
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Link - ( New Window )
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No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
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In comment 15851034 Jimmy Googs said:
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No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
No they didnt. They wanted to take a season to see Jones for themselves
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No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
Oh ok. They never saw Jones before . A pro coach and gm are making decisions based on he said she said.
Why did they sign Taylor to a two year deal for 19 mil (with incentives) which includes 6 mil in playing incentives? Why
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In comment 15851038 Milton said:
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In comment 15851034 Jimmy Googs said:
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No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
No they didnt. They wanted to take a season to see Jones for themselves
If they were that interested they exercise the option. That’s what it’s for...
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In comment 15851038 Milton said:
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In comment 15851034 Jimmy Googs said:
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No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
No they didnt. They wanted to take a season to see Jones for themselves
You know all these guys know how to watch tape, right? And all the coaches and execs talk to each other, right?
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In comment 15851042 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15851038 Milton said:
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In comment 15851034 Jimmy Googs said:
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No need to panic ever since Schoen/Daboll passed on the 5th year option...
Meaning they are leaving the decision for when the season ends in January or February. So need to make a decision today. Yet those silly Jones bashers live in such fear of looking foolish, they're looking for any pat on the back they can find. Those pats on the back may be in short supply a couple months from now. Link - ( New Window )
They are already made their decision that they don’t want Jones back at starter money. I guess he could return as a backup but we already have Taylor under contract so...
No they didnt. They wanted to take a season to see Jones for themselves
You know all these guys know how to watch tape, right? And all the coaches and execs talk to each other, right?
Yes and it is possible that some they trust said that Garrett offense and Judge’s philosophy were making him look worse than he was. It was telling that they did not break the bank for a starting QB. You can’t win without a good one and one Super Bowl winner (Wilson) and one guy who was the sole reason his team made the playoffs (Watson) were available this offseason. Despite the cap situation, if one was available that instantly made us a playoff team Schoen would have found a way to make it work.