An earlier thread asked the question as to whether DJ should be brought back Jones next year.
Do you think management has already made that decision regardless of where we draft, what the salary demands would be or who's available via free agency?
that the more games we win this year the worse will be our selection for the top QBs in the draft. So where does that leave us? Cooper Rush? He's a fees agent. I not sure who else is a free agent, but we're not getting much better than we have now unfortunately.
Going to be a real tough decision with all the variables of who is a free agent: Is he better than Daniel? Is he affordable? Is there someone in the draft that where we pick, can't miss? And for that last question, how many that are drafted are "can't miss"?
I am wondering is he's be the starter next year out of necessity?
Where were the Chiefs picking when they moved up for Mahomes? What pick did the Bills start with when they began trading up into range for Allen?
What makes you think Schoen/Daboll/Kafka will be any less aggressive if they identify the QB they want?
he's not a lame duck. Not only does it depend on his play, but his contract demands. Let's say the Giants end up 9-8 or 8-9 or whatever middle of the pack is going to be. If you tell Jones sayonara, who are you replacing him with? Do you mortgage the future like Denver did for Wilson? That wouldn't make sense when they have so many needs in other areas. Do you draft a QB at 15th or 16th? It's possible and go with Taylor for a year, but that's just giving up on a year waiting for a QB that might not be any better than Jones.
So, if Jones has a good year and signs for a reasonable contract it leaves the team with the draft choices to build up the supporting cast.
He's thrown for 3 td and yet to hit the magical 200 yard mark in 4 games and threw for 71 yards his last game. He is running more which is a good thing because he isn't a very good passer. Oh yeah, how we could we possibly find someone else to reach these heights.
Judas Priest, the continual rescue attempts for Jones are a wonder. He is a below average NFL qb, the Giants are giving him the heave ho (Mara can sugar coat it all he wants if that makes him feel better), reconcile yourselves to that and move on already.
He’s a better runner and has made strides in his passing
You sound like a reasonably intelligent fan- up until this year, what has Hurts done? Not much, right?
But notice who his top 2 receivers are to throw to this year…..Mr Smith and Mr Brown. Hmmmmm, do ya think having those two superstar toys might give him an advantage over Jones who has Golladay, Richie, and Sills to throw to?
Ya think?
Use that brain God gave you fellow.
Besides, aren’t you one of the guys who was lobbying hard for NY to pick up Russell Wilson.? How is that turning out for you?
that the more games we win this year the worse will be our selection for the top QBs in the draft. So where does that leave us? Cooper Rush? He's a fees agent. I not sure who else is a free agent, but we're not getting much better than we have now unfortunately.
Going to be a real tough decision with all the variables of who is a free agent: Is he better than Daniel? Is he affordable? Is there someone in the draft that where we pick, can't miss? And for that last question, how many that are drafted are "can't miss"?
I am wondering is he's be the starter next year out of necessity?
Where were the Chiefs picking when they moved up for Mahomes? What pick did the Bills start with when they began trading up into range for Allen?
What makes you think Schoen/Daboll/Kafka will be any less aggressive if they identify the QB they want?
Interesting point: Chiefs traded 2 1st rounders, a 3rd rounder to go from 27th to 10th to get Mahomes. The Bills were at 12 and traded 2 2nd rounders to get to 7.
He’s a better runner and has made strides in his passing
You sound like a reasonably intelligent fan- up until this year, what has Hurts done? Not much, right?
But notice who his top 2 receivers are to throw to this year…..Mr Smith and Mr Brown. Hmmmmm, do ya think having those two superstar toys might give him an advantage over Jones who has Golladay, Richie, and Sills to throw to?
Ya think?
Use that brain God gave you fellow.
Besides, aren’t you one of the guys who was lobbying hard for NY to pick up Russell Wilson.? How is that turning out for you?
I said I would trade for Wilson if the price was right, I wouldn’t call that lobbying for him. I wouldn’t have traded for him at the cost the Broncos gave up.
Second of all, you should probably use your brain. I didn’t say Hurts was some elite passer but he’s made strides in his decision making as a passer, that’s independent of who he is throwing to. I know some of you only have the capacity to look at box scores and win loss records.
Fans who think the Giants will be saddled with Jones because there's no better option are silly. Schoen has given no indication that's how he manages his resources.
If Jones is a Giant next years it's because 1) they've committed to him 2) they believe they need more time evaluate him.
Things we know:
1) There's very little upside to cutting Taylor, so he's likely to be the backup or bridge starter next year
2) Schoen witnessed firsthand how to move up in the draft responsibly and get a raw QB Daboll developed into a star
3) The Giants have the cap room to pay market rate for a starter if one becomes available via trade or free agency
Things we don't know yet:
1) How Jones will end up looking this year
2) Where the Giants will pick
3) Who the real college prospects are
I'm sure they see what type of QB he is and has been in the NFL
and unless there's a sudden, significant, unforeseen uptick in his performance, then yes he will be on his way out. The holes in his college tape remain unfixed.
that the more games we win this year the worse will be our selection for the top QBs in the draft. So where does that leave us? Cooper Rush? He's a fees agent. I not sure who else is a free agent, but we're not getting much better than we have now unfortunately.
Going to be a real tough decision with all the variables of who is a free agent: Is he better than Daniel? Is he affordable? Is there someone in the draft that where we pick, can't miss? And for that last question, how many that are drafted are "can't miss"?
I am wondering is he's be the starter next year out of necessity?
Where were the Chiefs picking when they moved up for Mahomes? What pick did the Bills start with when they began trading up into range for Allen?
What makes you think Schoen/Daboll/Kafka will be any less aggressive if they identify the QB they want?
Interesting point: Chiefs traded 2 1st rounders, a 3rd rounder to go from 27th to 10th to get Mahomes. The Bills were at 12 and traded 2 2nd rounders to get to 7.
The Bills were at 22 (with the pick they got from the Chiefs in the Mahomes trade, ironically) and used that (with other picks) to trade up to 12 first, then to 7.
he's not a lame duck. Not only does it depend on his play, but his contract demands. Let's say the Giants end up 9-8 or 8-9 or whatever middle of the pack is going to be. If you tell Jones sayonara, who are you replacing him with? Do you mortgage the future like Denver did for Wilson? That wouldn't make sense when they have so many needs in other areas. Do you draft a QB at 15th or 16th? It's possible and go with Taylor for a year, but that's just giving up on a year waiting for a QB that might not be any better than Jones.
So, if Jones has a good year and signs for a reasonable contract it leaves the team with the draft choices to build up the supporting cast.
He's thrown for 3 td and yet to hit the magical 200 yard mark in 4 games and threw for 71 yards his last game. He is running more which is a good thing because he isn't a very good passer. Oh yeah, how we could we possibly find someone else to reach these heights.
Judas Priest, the continual rescue attempts for Jones are a wonder. He is a below average NFL qb, the Giants are giving him the heave ho (Mara can sugar coat it all he wants if that makes him feel better), reconcile yourselves to that and move on already.
Have you sent your opinion to Sy in his last couple of postgame evaluation when he said he can do it etc? HE didn't see he will do it he said he can.
So why dodn'y you challenge him next time when he says anything positive about Jones next time he makes a remark such as "he can do it." ?
Fans who think the Giants will be saddled with Jones because there's no better option are silly. Schoen has given no indication that's how he manages his resources.
If Jones is a Giant next years it's because 1) they've committed to him 2) they believe they need more time evaluate him.
Things we know:
1) There's very little upside to cutting Taylor, so he's likely to be the backup or bridge starter next year
2) Schoen witnessed firsthand how to move up in the draft responsibly and get a raw QB Daboll developed into a star
3) The Giants have the cap room to pay market rate for a starter if one becomes available via trade or free agency
He’s a better runner and has made strides in his passing
You sound like a reasonably intelligent fan- up until this year, what has Hurts done? Not much, right?
But notice who his top 2 receivers are to throw to this year…..Mr Smith and Mr Brown. Hmmmmm, do ya think having those two superstar toys might give him an advantage over Jones who has Golladay, Richie, and Sills to throw to?
Ya think?
Use that brain God gave you fellow.
Besides, aren’t you one of the guys who was lobbying hard for NY to pick up Russell Wilson.? How is that turning out for you?
I said I would trade for Wilson if the price was right, I wouldn’t call that lobbying for him. I wouldn’t have traded for him at the cost the Broncos gave up.
Second of all, you should probably use your brain. I didn’t say Hurts was some elite passer but he’s made strides in his decision making as a passer, that’s independent of who he is throwing to. I know some of you only have the capacity to look at box scores and win loss records.
You forgot to quote your title….”Hurts is better than Jones”
So I assume you based this remark on the fact that his passing numbers have been better…..thus my rebuttal regarding the much better toys has to play with than Jones.
Up until this year, I don’t recall anyone here tooting Hurts horn, especially after that horrible game he played against us in NY last year. But all of a sudden, he is 3-1 and playing well and some people like you come out of the closet to tell us Hurts is better than Jones. Based on what? You know what…..Hurts has passed better because Hurts has much better toys. Is that fair?
I think the organization has doubts about whether he’s …
Things change, thus opinions change. Not sure why that concept doesn’t seem to exist on this site.
Sure adding AJ Brown has made it easier for Hurts, but that’s not the only reason Hurts looks better this year. He’s improved himself. This site has this weird complex where we’re not allowed to point out the flaws of the QB we like but every other QBs in the leagues warts get magnified.
Do you honestly think if you swapped Jones with Hurts, the Eagles would put up the same offense? No chance, and that’s not even going into passing ability - Hurts is a much better runner than Jones.
Said Hurts is a better runner and has made strides in his passing game. I didn’t even say he was a better passer than Jones, but at a minimum they’re equal as a passer.
Yea and then we are right back here in 4 years. Look for them to sign a bridge qb to hold the fort until they find a top guy in the draft. It might be Jones....it might not. But I doubt they draft a project. If they do and he doesn't work out both JS and BD will be out of a job.
that the more games we win this year the worse will be our selection for the top QBs in the draft. So where does that leave us? Cooper Rush? He's a fees agent. I not sure who else is a free agent, but we're not getting much better than we have now unfortunately.
Going to be a real tough decision with all the variables of who is a free agent: Is he better than Daniel? Is he affordable? Is there someone in the draft that where we pick, can't miss? And for that last question, how many that are drafted are "can't miss"?
I am wondering is he's be the starter next year out of necessity?
A rookie of similar talent is better than what we have now because he would be here on a rookie deal instead of a second deal worth more than $20M per year.
Said Hurts is a better runner and has made strides in his passing game. I didn’t even say he was a better passer than Jones, but at a minimum they’re equal as a passer.
Hurts situation and Jones's situation are so radically different that they cannot be compared. Eagles have an elite OL, a top 5 WR and a great 2 in Smith, a good tight and and a good running game. Jones has Barkley and Andrew Thomas and that is it.
Hands. The only control the Giants have is if they tag him. Otherwise, he is a free agent and can sign with the Giants (before anyone else) or any other team. Everyone will look at him in approximately the same way - as a backup/borderline starter with a chance to compete for a starting job with other backups or as a placeholder/competition for a rookie QB.
Unless Jones delivers 10+ wins, the Giants can sit back and wait to see what the market for him in that role is. Personally, no matter what happens, I think the Giants will give him the best offer because he is better than Tyrod Taylor. There may have been a point in time where Tyrod was better than Jones is now but no longer. He may not take the offer from the Giants.
Said Hurts is a better runner and has made strides in his passing game. I didn’t even say he was a better passer than Jones, but at a minimum they’re equal as a passer.
If they “are equal as passers” (your words), then how could you say “Hurts is better” (your words in title).
How is he better? If you say rushing, even that is debatable. Without looking, imwould think both are doing well with yards rushing and TDs.
Said Hurts is a better runner and has made strides in his passing game. I didn’t even say he was a better passer than Jones, but at a minimum they’re equal as a passer.
If they “are equal as passers” (your words), then how could you say “Hurts is better” (your words in title).
How is he better? If you say rushing, even that is debatable. Without looking, imwould think both are doing well with yards rushing and TDs.
It’s really not debatable that Hurts is a better runner. Jones is just a straight line runner, Hurts is a better runner in the open field and even inside the pocket
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
RE: RE: Jones may not take an offer from the Giants?
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
Said Hurts is a better runner and has made strides in his passing game. I didn’t even say he was a better passer than Jones, but at a minimum they’re equal as a passer.
If they “are equal as passers” (your words), then how could you say “Hurts is better” (your words in title).
How is he better? If you say rushing, even that is debatable. Without looking, imwould think both are doing well with yards rushing and TDs.
It’s really not debatable that Hurts is a better runner. Jones is just a straight line runner, Hurts is a better runner in the open field and even inside the pocket
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
I can see your post is funny too…
No, wrong post….my funny post was the AJ Klein Appreciation thread…..
RE: RE: Jones may not take an offer from the Giants?
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
Will the two devils have the same price tag next year? Or does the devil you know potentially cost 3x+ the amount that the devil you don't know?
And isolating your one-game-sample-size doesn't do much to support your argument. I can rattle off just as many QBs who became superstars in the past five years that were drafted later in their own draft than DJ was.
Staying with a loser because you're afraid of the alternative (to a loser) is rooted in cowardice.
People who watch other NFL games vs. People who only watch the Giants
One of my favorite interactions over the last three months was a poster asserting the Giants had the worst OL in the league. Said poster then said he doesn't really watch other teams when asked in the same thread.
RE: RE: RE: Jones may not take an offer from the Giants?
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
Will the two devils have the same price tag next year? Or does the devil you know potentially cost 3x+ the amount that the devil you don't know?
And isolating your one-game-sample-size doesn't do much to support your argument. I can rattle off just as many QBs who became superstars in the past five years that were drafted later in their own draft than DJ was.
Staying with a loser because you're afraid of the alternative (to a loser) is rooted in cowardice.
You make good points….I for one don’t want to spend big bucks on a guy that I don’t have utmost confidence in. I’m sure Schoen and Daboll feel the same, so I defer to their decision and me personally, I stay neutral regarding should we or shouldn’t we resign Jones.
Golladay ‘s $72 M and many in Dallas are crying over both Zeke and Dak’# big contracts…..no, I am a big believer in SPENDING WISELY. Count the costs….if you can get a qb who may be similar in talent for far less, that makes sense to me. But you still have to wisely assess both the guy leaving and the new guy you may be bringing in to replace him. Not always black and white.
Like I used to watch a lot of Rangers games, but I never watched the NHL. So if some real hockey fan said that Vladimir Whoever was better than some guy on the Rangers...I might go look up Vladimirs stats, but I wouldn't argue with him. Because I didn't know anything.
These guys obviously don't watch other teams. How do they come in so hot with arguments when they have so little knowledge?
RE: Why does it matter if nobody complimented Hurts before this year?
This site has this weird complex where we’re not allowed to point out the flaws of the QB we like but every other QBs in the leagues warts get magnified.
Do you honestly think if you swapped Jones with Hurts, the Eagles would put up the same offense? No chance, and that’s not even going into passing ability - Hurts is a much better runner than Jones.
Misrepresent issues much? Because you are doing it here. Please provide the link where anyone has suggested you can't point out flaws of Jones? No one said it but posters like you continually misrepresent /over-exaggerate to make your point about Jones.
Yes Jones is flawed but many of us rational posters realize that he could be better if for example if he had Phily's WRs and Tight End and had the Philly OLine.
It doesn't mean we think he will be as good as Hurts or even be a legit starter etc but the point is- you just want to bury your head in the sand and exclude other factors as it pertains to Jones and just proclaim in a manner of speak "he sucks."
And then you go and make exaggerated posts like you've just done here in an attempt to justify your opinion.
People who watch other NFL games vs. People who only watch the Giants
One of my favorite interactions over the last three months was a poster asserting the Giants had the worst OL in the league. Said poster then said he doesn't really watch other teams when asked in the same thread.
Well, it wasn’t me who said that, but even still, many don’t watch other games other than Giant games. (Maybe an occasional Sunday Night or Monday Night)
Nowadays, people use stats from PFF for example….there are plenty of people who rate teams and positions….so one only needs to read their research….not having to watch other teams play.
This site has this weird complex where we’re not allowed to point out the flaws of the QB we like but every other QBs in the leagues warts get magnified.
Do you honestly think if you swapped Jones with Hurts, the Eagles would put up the same offense? No chance, and that’s not even going into passing ability - Hurts is a much better runner than Jones.
Misrepresent issues much? Because you are doing it here. Please provide the link where anyone has suggested you can't point out flaws of Jones? No one said it but posters like you continually misrepresent /over-exaggerate to make your point about Jones.
Yes Jones is flawed but many of us rational posters realize that he could be better if for example if he had Phily's WRs and Tight End and had the Philly OLine.
It doesn't mean we think he will be as good as Hurts or even be a legit starter etc but the point is- you just want to bury your head in the sand and exclude other factors as it pertains to Jones and just proclaim in a manner of speak "he sucks."
And then you go and make exaggerated posts like you've just done here in an attempt to justify your opinion.
You literally can not be serious with this post. First off there’s a lot of people who get very abusive when you even have the slightest criticism of Jones. Nobody exaggerates Jones’ flaws, they’re pretty clear and it’s clear he’s not a good QB. He still wouldn’t be a good QB with AJ Brown and Smith. Tannehill didn’t turn into Aaron Rodgers or even Kirk Cousins when he had Brown, Henry and the Titans oline.
who is more fanatically obsessed with Daniel Jones than his actual parents self-identifying as a "rational poster" is pretty remarkable
Stick to the football issues being discussed….please stay away from diverting the conversation from the players to the posters…that serves no useful purpose. Email someone if you have an issue with and let’s just stick to talking football here.
RE: RE: You can just look at the stats if you want
But that doesn’t say much on the running ability at the Quarterback position.
Hurts runs are better because they are flashier. It doesn't matter that he has 22 more running plays and averages only 3.9 per play.
Yeah, I guess Hurts 3.9 impresses ajr more than Daniel’s 6.2.
I think you may be right….I think ajr isn’t impressed with Danny’s style….must look a bit too awkward…..and he likes the sleeker look (you used flashy) better.
I’m sure ajr’s car is pretty sporty looking….flashier, right? Definitely not a Cadillac. Lol
But that doesn’t say much on the running ability at the Quarterback position.
Hurts runs are better because they are flashier. It doesn't matter that he has 22 more running plays and averages only 3.9 per play.
Not what I said, but ok. I’m convinced nobody watches other teams. Jones averages more YPA than Josh Allen, is he better runner than Allen?
And by the same logic is Geno Smith averaging nearly 2 more YPA throwing mean he’s better than Jones?
I’m not playing this game with you- we are discussing Jones v Hurts. You said they are equal as passers but Hurts is a better rusher. That is what we are discussing….
If you want to compare Geno with Danny, go start a new thread.
Of using stats through 4 games to prove that Jones is a better runner than Hurts. If you can’t grasp that or just want to avoid it because exposes the flaw in your argument, there’s no point in even having this discussion.
Hurts has the better running skills. He’s faster, the better athlete, he’s shiftier. Watch the actual games.
the most positive thing you can find is "hard to evaluate". Cool. Let's commit to that.
There are 13 games left in the season, who said anything about commitment? Some fans can live with the uncertainty while... ...others? - ( New Window )
I think there's a disconnect at the premise level: the fans who "can live with the uncertainty" are the only ones who even believe there is uncertainty to be lived with at this point.
It isn't about being able to live with the uncertainty, IMO. It's about defining uncertainty vs. inevitability.
Of using stats through 4 games to prove that Jones is a better runner than Hurts. If you can’t grasp that or just want to avoid it because exposes the flaw in your argument, there’s no point in even having this discussion.
Hurts has the better running skills. He’s faster, the better athlete, he’s shiftier. Watch the actual games.
Just curious….is there a qb who has a longer run from scrimmage than our Danny boy? Too bad he tripped…imagine a 90 something yard TD run from a qb.
Of using stats through 4 games to prove that Jones is a better runner than Hurts. If you can’t grasp that or just want to avoid it because exposes the flaw in your argument, there’s no point in even having this discussion.
Hurts has the better running skills. He’s faster, the better athlete, he’s shiftier. Watch the actual games.
You said….”Hurts has the better running skills. He’s faster, the better athlete, he’s shiftier..”
If Hurts is all that, then why is Danny doing better than him? I mean come on….Hurts is faster, shiftier, better athlete…..why is he only averaging 3.9 instead of 10.9? And what about the two fumbles?
Smith and AJ Brown will definitely help a QB make strides. David Sills and Richie James?
Going to be a real tough decision with all the variables of who is a free agent: Is he better than Daniel? Is he affordable? Is there someone in the draft that where we pick, can't miss? And for that last question, how many that are drafted are "can't miss"?
I am wondering is he's be the starter next year out of necessity?
Where were the Chiefs picking when they moved up for Mahomes? What pick did the Bills start with when they began trading up into range for Allen?
What makes you think Schoen/Daboll/Kafka will be any less aggressive if they identify the QB they want?
So, if Jones has a good year and signs for a reasonable contract it leaves the team with the draft choices to build up the supporting cast.
Judas Priest, the continual rescue attempts for Jones are a wonder. He is a below average NFL qb, the Giants are giving him the heave ho (Mara can sugar coat it all he wants if that makes him feel better), reconcile yourselves to that and move on already.
You sound like a reasonably intelligent fan- up until this year, what has Hurts done? Not much, right?
But notice who his top 2 receivers are to throw to this year…..Mr Smith and Mr Brown. Hmmmmm, do ya think having those two superstar toys might give him an advantage over Jones who has Golladay, Richie, and Sills to throw to?
Ya think?
Use that brain God gave you fellow.
Besides, aren’t you one of the guys who was lobbying hard for NY to pick up Russell Wilson.? How is that turning out for you?
Quote:
that the more games we win this year the worse will be our selection for the top QBs in the draft. So where does that leave us? Cooper Rush? He's a fees agent. I not sure who else is a free agent, but we're not getting much better than we have now unfortunately.
Going to be a real tough decision with all the variables of who is a free agent: Is he better than Daniel? Is he affordable? Is there someone in the draft that where we pick, can't miss? And for that last question, how many that are drafted are "can't miss"?
I am wondering is he's be the starter next year out of necessity?
Where were the Chiefs picking when they moved up for Mahomes? What pick did the Bills start with when they began trading up into range for Allen?
What makes you think Schoen/Daboll/Kafka will be any less aggressive if they identify the QB they want?
Interesting point: Chiefs traded 2 1st rounders, a 3rd rounder to go from 27th to 10th to get Mahomes. The Bills were at 12 and traded 2 2nd rounders to get to 7.
Quote:
He’s a better runner and has made strides in his passing
You sound like a reasonably intelligent fan- up until this year, what has Hurts done? Not much, right?
But notice who his top 2 receivers are to throw to this year…..Mr Smith and Mr Brown. Hmmmmm, do ya think having those two superstar toys might give him an advantage over Jones who has Golladay, Richie, and Sills to throw to?
Ya think?
Use that brain God gave you fellow.
Besides, aren’t you one of the guys who was lobbying hard for NY to pick up Russell Wilson.? How is that turning out for you?
I said I would trade for Wilson if the price was right, I wouldn’t call that lobbying for him. I wouldn’t have traded for him at the cost the Broncos gave up.
Second of all, you should probably use your brain. I didn’t say Hurts was some elite passer but he’s made strides in his decision making as a passer, that’s independent of who he is throwing to. I know some of you only have the capacity to look at box scores and win loss records.
If Jones is a Giant next years it's because 1) they've committed to him 2) they believe they need more time evaluate him.
Things we know:
1) There's very little upside to cutting Taylor, so he's likely to be the backup or bridge starter next year
2) Schoen witnessed firsthand how to move up in the draft responsibly and get a raw QB Daboll developed into a star
3) The Giants have the cap room to pay market rate for a starter if one becomes available via trade or free agency
Things we don't know yet:
1) How Jones will end up looking this year
2) Where the Giants will pick
3) Who the real college prospects are
Quote:
In comment 15848963 Aloha Alan said:
Quote:
that the more games we win this year the worse will be our selection for the top QBs in the draft. So where does that leave us? Cooper Rush? He's a fees agent. I not sure who else is a free agent, but we're not getting much better than we have now unfortunately.
Going to be a real tough decision with all the variables of who is a free agent: Is he better than Daniel? Is he affordable? Is there someone in the draft that where we pick, can't miss? And for that last question, how many that are drafted are "can't miss"?
I am wondering is he's be the starter next year out of necessity?
Where were the Chiefs picking when they moved up for Mahomes? What pick did the Bills start with when they began trading up into range for Allen?
What makes you think Schoen/Daboll/Kafka will be any less aggressive if they identify the QB they want?
Interesting point: Chiefs traded 2 1st rounders, a 3rd rounder to go from 27th to 10th to get Mahomes. The Bills were at 12 and traded 2 2nd rounders to get to 7.
The Bills were at 22 (with the pick they got from the Chiefs in the Mahomes trade, ironically) and used that (with other picks) to trade up to 12 first, then to 7.
I think it depends the price
ajr2456 : 11/23/2021 1:02 pm : link
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he's not a lame duck. Not only does it depend on his play, but his contract demands. Let's say the Giants end up 9-8 or 8-9 or whatever middle of the pack is going to be. If you tell Jones sayonara, who are you replacing him with? Do you mortgage the future like Denver did for Wilson? That wouldn't make sense when they have so many needs in other areas. Do you draft a QB at 15th or 16th? It's possible and go with Taylor for a year, but that's just giving up on a year waiting for a QB that might not be any better than Jones.
So, if Jones has a good year and signs for a reasonable contract it leaves the team with the draft choices to build up the supporting cast.
He's thrown for 3 td and yet to hit the magical 200 yard mark in 4 games and threw for 71 yards his last game. He is running more which is a good thing because he isn't a very good passer. Oh yeah, how we could we possibly find someone else to reach these heights.
Judas Priest, the continual rescue attempts for Jones are a wonder. He is a below average NFL qb, the Giants are giving him the heave ho (Mara can sugar coat it all he wants if that makes him feel better), reconcile yourselves to that and move on already.
Have you sent your opinion to Sy in his last couple of postgame evaluation when he said he can do it etc? HE didn't see he will do it he said he can.
So why dodn'y you challenge him next time when he says anything positive about Jones next time he makes a remark such as "he can do it." ?
If Jones is a Giant next years it's because 1) they've committed to him 2) they believe they need more time evaluate him.
Things we know:
1) There's very little upside to cutting Taylor, so he's likely to be the backup or bridge starter next year
2) Schoen witnessed firsthand how to move up in the draft responsibly and get a raw QB Daboll developed into a star
3) The Giants have the cap room to pay market rate for a starter if one becomes available via trade or free agency
Things we don't know yet:
1) How Jones will end up looking this year
2) Where the Giants will pick
3) Who the real college prospects are
+1
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In comment 15849377 ajr2456 said:
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He’s a better runner and has made strides in his passing
You sound like a reasonably intelligent fan- up until this year, what has Hurts done? Not much, right?
But notice who his top 2 receivers are to throw to this year…..Mr Smith and Mr Brown. Hmmmmm, do ya think having those two superstar toys might give him an advantage over Jones who has Golladay, Richie, and Sills to throw to?
Ya think?
Use that brain God gave you fellow.
Besides, aren’t you one of the guys who was lobbying hard for NY to pick up Russell Wilson.? How is that turning out for you?
I said I would trade for Wilson if the price was right, I wouldn’t call that lobbying for him. I wouldn’t have traded for him at the cost the Broncos gave up.
Second of all, you should probably use your brain. I didn’t say Hurts was some elite passer but he’s made strides in his decision making as a passer, that’s independent of who he is throwing to. I know some of you only have the capacity to look at box scores and win loss records.
You forgot to quote your title….”Hurts is better than Jones”
So I assume you based this remark on the fact that his passing numbers have been better…..thus my rebuttal regarding the much better toys has to play with than Jones.
Up until this year, I don’t recall anyone here tooting Hurts horn, especially after that horrible game he played against us in NY last year. But all of a sudden, he is 3-1 and playing well and some people like you come out of the closet to tell us Hurts is better than Jones. Based on what? You know what…..Hurts has passed better because Hurts has much better toys. Is that fair?
Sure adding AJ Brown has made it easier for Hurts, but that’s not the only reason Hurts looks better this year. He’s improved himself. This site has this weird complex where we’re not allowed to point out the flaws of the QB we like but every other QBs in the leagues warts get magnified.
Do you honestly think if you swapped Jones with Hurts, the Eagles would put up the same offense? No chance, and that’s not even going into passing ability - Hurts is a much better runner than Jones.
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Yea and then we are right back here in 4 years. Look for them to sign a bridge qb to hold the fort until they find a top guy in the draft. It might be Jones....it might not. But I doubt they draft a project. If they do and he doesn't work out both JS and BD will be out of a job.
that the more games we win this year the worse will be our selection for the top QBs in the draft. So where does that leave us? Cooper Rush? He's a fees agent. I not sure who else is a free agent, but we're not getting much better than we have now unfortunately.
Going to be a real tough decision with all the variables of who is a free agent: Is he better than Daniel? Is he affordable? Is there someone in the draft that where we pick, can't miss? And for that last question, how many that are drafted are "can't miss"?
I am wondering is he's be the starter next year out of necessity?
A rookie of similar talent is better than what we have now because he would be here on a rookie deal instead of a second deal worth more than $20M per year.
Hurts situation and Jones's situation are so radically different that they cannot be compared. Eagles have an elite OL, a top 5 WR and a great 2 in Smith, a good tight and and a good running game. Jones has Barkley and Andrew Thomas and that is it.
Unless Jones delivers 10+ wins, the Giants can sit back and wait to see what the market for him in that role is. Personally, no matter what happens, I think the Giants will give him the best offer because he is better than Tyrod Taylor. There may have been a point in time where Tyrod was better than Jones is now but no longer. He may not take the offer from the Giants.
If they “are equal as passers” (your words), then how could you say “Hurts is better” (your words in title).
How is he better? If you say rushing, even that is debatable. Without looking, imwould think both are doing well with yards rushing and TDs.
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Said Hurts is a better runner and has made strides in his passing game. I didn’t even say he was a better passer than Jones, but at a minimum they’re equal as a passer.
If they “are equal as passers” (your words), then how could you say “Hurts is better” (your words in title).
How is he better? If you say rushing, even that is debatable. Without looking, imwould think both are doing well with yards rushing and TDs.
It’s really not debatable that Hurts is a better runner. Jones is just a straight line runner, Hurts is a better runner in the open field and even inside the pocket
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
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Oh no…we’re screwed
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
I can see your post is funny too…
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In comment 15849891 ajr2456 said:
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Said Hurts is a better runner and has made strides in his passing game. I didn’t even say he was a better passer than Jones, but at a minimum they’re equal as a passer.
If they “are equal as passers” (your words), then how could you say “Hurts is better” (your words in title).
How is he better? If you say rushing, even that is debatable. Without looking, imwould think both are doing well with yards rushing and TDs.
It’s really not debatable that Hurts is a better runner. Jones is just a straight line runner, Hurts is a better runner in the open field and even inside the pocket
For the record, let’s compare 2022 stats.
Hurts:
53-205 yards; 3.9 yards per carry; 4 TDs, 2 fumbles
Jones:
31 - 193 yards; 6.2 yards per carry ; 2 TDs, 0 fumbles
“It’s not really debatable…..” hmmmmmmmmm, says who?
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In comment 15849978 Jimmy Googs said:
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Oh no…we’re screwed
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
I can see your post is funny too…
No, wrong post….my funny post was the AJ Klein Appreciation thread…..
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Oh no…we’re screwed
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
Will the two devils have the same price tag next year? Or does the devil you know potentially cost 3x+ the amount that the devil you don't know?
And isolating your one-game-sample-size doesn't do much to support your argument. I can rattle off just as many QBs who became superstars in the past five years that were drafted later in their own draft than DJ was.
Staying with a loser because you're afraid of the alternative (to a loser) is rooted in cowardice.
One of my favorite interactions over the last three months was a poster asserting the Giants had the worst OL in the league. Said poster then said he doesn't really watch other teams when asked in the same thread.
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In comment 15849978 Jimmy Googs said:
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Oh no…we’re screwed
You make funny here, but many on this site were clamoring for Pickett to be picked to replace Jones. Let’s see- one game in, 3 interceptions. Nice start. But I’m not saying he can’t turn it around and become a good NFL QB.
The truth is, maybe the devil you know is better than the devil you don’t really know (guys like Pickett).
Will the two devils have the same price tag next year? Or does the devil you know potentially cost 3x+ the amount that the devil you don't know?
And isolating your one-game-sample-size doesn't do much to support your argument. I can rattle off just as many QBs who became superstars in the past five years that were drafted later in their own draft than DJ was.
Staying with a loser because you're afraid of the alternative (to a loser) is rooted in cowardice.
You make good points….I for one don’t want to spend big bucks on a guy that I don’t have utmost confidence in. I’m sure Schoen and Daboll feel the same, so I defer to their decision and me personally, I stay neutral regarding should we or shouldn’t we resign Jones.
Golladay ‘s $72 M and many in Dallas are crying over both Zeke and Dak’# big contracts…..no, I am a big believer in SPENDING WISELY. Count the costs….if you can get a qb who may be similar in talent for far less, that makes sense to me. But you still have to wisely assess both the guy leaving and the new guy you may be bringing in to replace him. Not always black and white.
These guys obviously don't watch other teams. How do they come in so hot with arguments when they have so little knowledge?
This site has this weird complex where we’re not allowed to point out the flaws of the QB we like but every other QBs in the leagues warts get magnified.
Do you honestly think if you swapped Jones with Hurts, the Eagles would put up the same offense? No chance, and that’s not even going into passing ability - Hurts is a much better runner than Jones.
Misrepresent issues much? Because you are doing it here. Please provide the link where anyone has suggested you can't point out flaws of Jones? No one said it but posters like you continually misrepresent /over-exaggerate to make your point about Jones.
Yes Jones is flawed but many of us rational posters realize that he could be better if for example if he had Phily's WRs and Tight End and had the Philly OLine.
It doesn't mean we think he will be as good as Hurts or even be a legit starter etc but the point is- you just want to bury your head in the sand and exclude other factors as it pertains to Jones and just proclaim in a manner of speak "he sucks."
And then you go and make exaggerated posts like you've just done here in an attempt to justify your opinion.
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People who watch other NFL games vs. People who only watch the Giants
One of my favorite interactions over the last three months was a poster asserting the Giants had the worst OL in the league. Said poster then said he doesn't really watch other teams when asked in the same thread.
Well, it wasn’t me who said that, but even still, many don’t watch other games other than Giant games. (Maybe an occasional Sunday Night or Monday Night)
Nowadays, people use stats from PFF for example….there are plenty of people who rate teams and positions….so one only needs to read their research….not having to watch other teams play.
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This site has this weird complex where we’re not allowed to point out the flaws of the QB we like but every other QBs in the leagues warts get magnified.
Do you honestly think if you swapped Jones with Hurts, the Eagles would put up the same offense? No chance, and that’s not even going into passing ability - Hurts is a much better runner than Jones.
Misrepresent issues much? Because you are doing it here. Please provide the link where anyone has suggested you can't point out flaws of Jones? No one said it but posters like you continually misrepresent /over-exaggerate to make your point about Jones.
Yes Jones is flawed but many of us rational posters realize that he could be better if for example if he had Phily's WRs and Tight End and had the Philly OLine.
It doesn't mean we think he will be as good as Hurts or even be a legit starter etc but the point is- you just want to bury your head in the sand and exclude other factors as it pertains to Jones and just proclaim in a manner of speak "he sucks."
And then you go and make exaggerated posts like you've just done here in an attempt to justify your opinion.
You literally can not be serious with this post. First off there’s a lot of people who get very abusive when you even have the slightest criticism of Jones. Nobody exaggerates Jones’ flaws, they’re pretty clear and it’s clear he’s not a good QB. He still wouldn’t be a good QB with AJ Brown and Smith. Tannehill didn’t turn into Aaron Rodgers or even Kirk Cousins when he had Brown, Henry and the Titans oline.
Stick to the football issues being discussed….please stay away from diverting the conversation from the players to the posters…that serves no useful purpose. Email someone if you have an issue with and let’s just stick to talking football here.
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But that doesn’t say much on the running ability at the Quarterback position.
Hurts runs are better because they are flashier. It doesn't matter that he has 22 more running plays and averages only 3.9 per play.
Not what I said, but ok. I’m convinced nobody watches other teams. Jones averages more YPA than Josh Allen, is he better runner than Allen?
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In comment 15850004 ajr2456 said:
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But that doesn’t say much on the running ability at the Quarterback position.
Hurts runs are better because they are flashier. It doesn't matter that he has 22 more running plays and averages only 3.9 per play.
Not what I said, but ok. I’m convinced nobody watches other teams. Jones averages more YPA than Josh Allen, is he better runner than Allen?
And by the same logic is Geno Smith averaging nearly 2 more YPA throwing mean he’s better than Jones?
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But that doesn’t say much on the running ability at the Quarterback position.
Hurts runs are better because they are flashier. It doesn't matter that he has 22 more running plays and averages only 3.9 per play.
Yeah, I guess Hurts 3.9 impresses ajr more than Daniel’s 6.2.
I think you may be right….I think ajr isn’t impressed with Danny’s style….must look a bit too awkward…..and he likes the sleeker look (you used flashy) better.
I’m sure ajr’s car is pretty sporty looking….flashier, right? Definitely not a Cadillac. Lol
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In comment 15850037 fredgbrown said:
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In comment 15850004 ajr2456 said:
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But that doesn’t say much on the running ability at the Quarterback position.
Hurts runs are better because they are flashier. It doesn't matter that he has 22 more running plays and averages only 3.9 per play.
Not what I said, but ok. I’m convinced nobody watches other teams. Jones averages more YPA than Josh Allen, is he better runner than Allen?
And by the same logic is Geno Smith averaging nearly 2 more YPA throwing mean he’s better than Jones?
I’m not playing this game with you- we are discussing Jones v Hurts. You said they are equal as passers but Hurts is a better rusher. That is what we are discussing….
If you want to compare Geno with Danny, go start a new thread.
Hurts has the better running skills. He’s faster, the better athlete, he’s shiftier. Watch the actual games.
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the most positive thing you can find is "hard to evaluate". Cool. Let's commit to that.
There are 13 games left in the season, who said anything about commitment? Some fans can live with the uncertainty while... ...others? - ( New Window )
I think there's a disconnect at the premise level: the fans who "can live with the uncertainty" are the only ones who even believe there is uncertainty to be lived with at this point.
It isn't about being able to live with the uncertainty, IMO. It's about defining uncertainty vs. inevitability.
Hurts has the better running skills. He’s faster, the better athlete, he’s shiftier. Watch the actual games.
Just curious….is there a qb who has a longer run from scrimmage than our Danny boy? Too bad he tripped…imagine a 90 something yard TD run from a qb.
Hurts has the better running skills. He’s faster, the better athlete, he’s shiftier. Watch the actual games.
You said….”Hurts has the better running skills. He’s faster, the better athlete, he’s shiftier..”
If Hurts is all that, then why is Danny doing better than him? I mean come on….Hurts is faster, shiftier, better athlete…..why is he only averaging 3.9 instead of 10.9? And what about the two fumbles?