how many more shitty QB trades will they make before they full waste their good roster? They should be going all in on an established QB or giving up whatever they need to to get a top prospect.
My post was dripping with sarcasm. Wilson’s been mediocre, at best, this season. But there are some here who think it would’ve been a sound investment to trade for him.
My post was dripping with sarcasm. Wilson’s been mediocre, at best, this season. But there are some here who think it would’ve been a sound investment to trade for him.
My post was dripping with sarcasm. Wilson’s been mediocre, at best, this season. But there are some here who think it would’ve been a sound investment to trade for him.
Pick of QBs in a good QB draft this year. Well done by the FO, From Peyton to Luck, been a little shaky but I’m sure they will find an answer this off season. That whole team is a mess, Reich will be gone.
Colts have a lot of money tied up in their Online and when you don't win with that ( 3 years in a row) you begin to fade.. All they have are pieces, the exact opposite of our problem- solid team concept but our pieces are lacking...
Now Denver- holy shit what a mess. Wilson is average at best, WR's have talent but haven't played to that talent and now your young RB is done and may be for quite a while...
And yes the picture is blurry on the wide field view.
FWIW, DeForest Buckner is actually the same size as Aaron Judge. 6'7" 287 is his listed size vs Judge 6'7" 282 and it looks like Judge has the bigger frame.
Brady said at a press conference yesterday that there is a lot of bad football being played right now. Truer words have never been spoken.
Product is abysmal right now.
Brady is right. Short training camps and few reps by starters in preseason games. The offenses are disjointed, unable to establish anything, and the playcalling is a little bit of this in a little bit of that.
are a perfect example of what happens when you don't have a QB. Despite having a lot of talent for a few years, their ceiling was low and their window was short.
Without a QB, you need so much to go your way. Ultimately you lose guys to injury, age, and cap. Their approach to trying to patch the QB hole was reasonable. But it didn't work with 3 guys now and their window might be closed.
are a perfect example of what happens when you don't have a QB. Despite having a lot of talent for a few years, their ceiling was low and their window was short.
Without a QB, you need so much to go your way. Ultimately you lose guys to injury, age, and cap. Their approach to trying to patch the QB hole was reasonable. But it didn't work with 3 guys now and their window might be closed.
Both of these teams are demonstrating how futile you can be when you can’t protect your quarterback
are a perfect example of what happens when you don't have a QB. Despite having a lot of talent for a few years, their ceiling was low and their window was short.
Without a QB, you need so much to go your way. Ultimately you lose guys to injury, age, and cap. Their approach to trying to patch the QB hole was reasonable. But it didn't work with 3 guys now and their window might be closed.
Both of these teams are demonstrating how futile you can be when you can’t protect your quarterback
Hmm, I think it is way more than that. These QB'd are more rep than current ability. Wilson is beyond overrated and Ryan is clearly a shadow of his former self.
are a perfect example of what happens when you don't have a QB. Despite having a lot of talent for a few years, their ceiling was low and their window was short.
Without a QB, you need so much to go your way. Ultimately you lose guys to injury, age, and cap. Their approach to trying to patch the QB hole was reasonable. But it didn't work with 3 guys now and their window might be closed.
Both of these teams are demonstrating how futile you can be when you can’t protect your quarterback
Hmm, I think it is way more than that. These QB'd are more rep than current ability. Wilson is beyond overrated and Ryan is clearly a shadow of his former self.
You may be slinging sarcasm here but, you’re not wrong. People want exciting, competitive games. This may be competitive but, it’s like watching paint dry.
I’d take a ludicrous, high scoring game over this crap any day.
Does make me feel better about the Giants
Colts have had some tremendous drafts
Broncos got their missing piece with Wilson….
They both look awful
That said - they are both clearly much better football teams than the Giants right now. But we can be hopeful for the first time in a long time. So there’s that.
Does make me feel better about the Giants
Colts have had some tremendous drafts
Broncos got their missing piece with Wilson….
They both look awful
That said - they are both clearly much better football teams than the Giants right now. But we can be hopeful for the first time in a long time. So there’s that.
Clearly much better? Based on what exactly. These teams look mediocre - average to me. We’re in the same range.
That said - they are both clearly much better football teams than the Giants right now. But we can be hopeful for the first time in a long time. So there’s that.
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
I am sorry Wilson has been awful!!
He has. But I don't think it's an erosion of skills. I think it's just an offense completely stuck ineptitude. And Wilson is pressing. Badly.
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
C’mon man. It’s not just tonight. He hasn’t played well at all. He has plenty of offensive weapons. People complained about, “Let Russ cook!” in Seattle. Well, he got his wish. He’s where he wanted to be. He isn’t cooking so well and, looks like a fork is sprouting from his back.
They just showed a picture of Elway watching the game
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
Offenses not in sync. Haven’t you preached or a while now about that being the responsibility of the quarterback
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
I have. And I’m not shocked you’re finding excuses for Wilson. How the fuck do you justify the pick in the end zone?! That was an. AWFUL throw. Nothing to doo with the playcall, it was TERRIBLE execution!
But to your pathetic attempt to defend Wilson re offense being in sync - Jones had joe fucking judge and jason fucking Garrett!! How the fuck can anyone possibly get in sync with that combination?
Not to mention that Wilson has something that Jones hasn’t had - actual talent at WR, TE, OL and RB.
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
But yet, you clamor about how Jones is supposed to elevate everyone around him and rise above it.
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
Offenses not in sync. Haven’t you preached or a while now about that being the responsibility of the quarterback
It's the job of the QB to execute the offense.
Right now, it looks like he's struggling to do that.
And Denver signed Wilson to an astronomical 5-year deal. Carroll is a master used car salesman and George Paton should be fired in year one for trading and signing Wilson and hiring that buffoon Hackett as his HC.
Wilson might be the only player I wouldn't trade Kenny Golladay straight up for
Watching Hackett really makes me appreciate Daboll
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
I am sorry Wilson has been awful!!
He has. But I don't think it's an erosion of skills. I think it's just an offense completely stuck ineptitude. And Wilson is pressing. Badly.
He’s supposed to elevate the team. At least that’s what people said here when they were advocating giving up a boatload of picks and absurd money to acquire him.
But yet, you clamor about how Jones is supposed to elevate everyone around him and rise above it.
Why shouldn’t Wilson have to do the same??
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
The past means nothing when comparing what someone is doing on the field right now. Wilson looks awful, makes horrible decisions and was directly responsible for tonight's loss.
But yet, you clamor about how Jones is supposed to elevate everyone around him and rise above it.
Why shouldn’t Wilson have to do the same??
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
That has NOTHING to do with the present; you (and others) advocated for a trade for a 33 year old QB who showed signs of being cooked last year, to a team that was infinitely less talented than DEN.
He’s playing with a team that has talent galore on offense, and Wilson has absolutely SUCKED thru 5 games.
And Denver signed Wilson to an astronomical 5-year deal. Carroll is a master used car salesman and George Paton should be fired in year one for trading and signing Wilson and hiring that buffoon Hackett as his HC.
Wilson might be the only player I wouldn't trade Kenny Golladay straight up for
+1
RE: It’s time to do away with Thursday night games
QB’s that we’re supposed to be the missing piece - ones that were traded for a significant number of draft picks/players - make those plays in their sleep. Especially with the talent around him.
Contracts and all that. Which is why the NFL claiming they have a care in the world about player safety is one the biggest crocks shit anyone ever bought.
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
The past means nothing when comparing what someone is doing on the field right now. Wilson looks awful, makes horrible decisions and was directly responsible for tonight's loss.
I think that's fair. But I'm not ready to write this guy off yet after five games. IMV, he's got enough equity built up to work his way through this.
And he's not really alone. A lot of QBs are playing below par right now. See Ryan, Brady, Satfford, Carr, Burrow, Murray. Even Rodgers.
How can you possibly not kick the FG to tie it at 12 12?
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
The past means nothing when comparing what someone is doing on the field right now. Wilson looks awful, makes horrible decisions and was directly responsible for tonight's loss.
I think that's fair. But I'm not ready to write this guy off yet after five games. IMV, he's got enough equity built up to work his way through this.
And he's not really alone. A lot of QBs are playing below par right now. See Ryan, Brady, Satfford, Carr, Burrow, Murray. Even Rodgers.
There were plenty of threads clamoring for us to dump DJ and find a way to sign Wilson. I'm not accusing you, but a lot of people thought Wilson would do well on this offense. I think it's clear at this point he would have been an awful acquisition.
That has NOTHING to do with the present; you (and others) advocated for a trade for a 33 year old QB who showed signs of being cooked last year, to a team that was infinitely less talented than DEN.
He’s playing with a team that has talent galore on offense, and Wilson has absolutely SUCKED thru 5 games.
Truth.
Well, I don't want to go over old real estate again, but Wilson was injured last year and was playing well before he got hurt and towards the end of the year when the thumb started to heal. Of course, that would require you having an understanding of those details.
I keep hearing about all of this talent Denver has on offense. Outside of Sutton, who has actually produced good results, where is all this talent you are talking about?
Nobody gonna mention the wide open receiver on 4th down that
There was 2:38 left and Denver had 2 timeouts. More likely that the Denver D stops the Colts than it is that the Colts score.
Well a couple things could have factored in:
- they didn't want a tie
- they didn't think they could stop the colts
- they only needed a yard for a first down
Stopping the Colts and getting the ball back in under 3 min is tall order. The Colts last two drives resulted in FGs and one of only took 2 min to go 70 yards. Maybe the Broncos stop them, but that d did not play well the final 2 possessions. Might have been gassed
RE: Nobody gonna mention the wide open receiver on 4th down that
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
C’mon man. It’s not just tonight. He hasn’t played well at all. He has plenty of offensive weapons. People complained about, “Let Russ cook!” in Seattle. Well, he got his wish. He’s where he wanted to be. He isn’t cooking so well and, looks like a fork is sprouting from his back.
Meanwhile Geno is cooking pretty well in Seattle. Between what they got in the trade return and how they’re playing this year, Pete Carroll looks like a combo of John Dillinger and Harry Houdini. The guy has really done a masterful job all around.
Wilson's demise. On a couple/few plays last night he threw a pass that either he or his receiver misread the coverage. He and the WRs are clearly not on the same page. I do think his arm looks weaker than I remember, but that can be indecision too.
On the other hand, Ryan looked like toast. Dying quails and inaccurate - a deadly combination.
in the week. You shouldn't mortgage the future for a declining 33-year old QB when the people around him aren't that good.
So, let's say Wilson comes out of it and starts playing well. They don't have a first or second round draft choice next year to build up the rest of the team.
It was not a good trade. They should hire a better GM like Gettleman, I hear he's available. They could lure him out of retirement.
but Rodgers had a tough time adjusting to the offense with Hackett in Green Bay early on. It is very demanding on the QB with all its intricacies. Hackett was in Green Bay as OC.
Should be done away with. The games in large part are terrible. Guys are getting seriously hurt after already not having adequate time to recover from playing Sunday. Thursday night was always a night where there would be a decent college football game on or two. Thanksgiving games are a tradition, if they wanted to maybe sprinkle in a game the Thursday following Thanksgiving that would probably be appealing. But all in all TNF stinks.
You don’t know what you got until it’s gone? What would Jones do with Denver Receivers or Pittman? Everyone here shits on him. Imagine if we traded for Wilson? Gave up the farm and are in salary cap hell for years. Some people would commit Suicide.
you spend an awful lot of energy defending other team's QBs... what's up with that?
Shouldn't Wilson be a force multiplier?
In all seriousness, I have no idea if the guy is injured and he's had a hell of a career to date... but bottom line is DEN (and Colts) just outright stink right now and I am glad we didn't mortgage the farm to get Wilson.
you spend an awful lot of energy defending other team's QBs... what's up with that?
Shouldn't Wilson be a force multiplier?
In all seriousness, I have no idea if the guy is injured and he's had a hell of a career to date... but bottom line is DEN (and Colts) just outright stink right now and I am glad we didn't mortgage the farm to get Wilson.
Wilson is indeed being paid to play at a high level. And right now, he's failing.
But he's been a great QB in this league for a long time. And I'm not ready to give his eulogy until I see more evidence than five games into a season with a new team and first time HC.
In my view, he deserves the benefit of the doubt to figure this thing out. He's earned that.
Furthermore, I don't buy that he was deteriorating last year. He had a thumb injury. Before the injury, he was play very well. When the thumb healed the final four games of the season, Wilson started to find his game again.
The end of the year, they will probably let go of Hackett and then Wilson and his outrageous contract is the beneficiary. What can they do? He's looked horrible. They're locked in to that for at least four years. Their loss.
Lot of people discredited Pete Carroll with the success of them and how he's now over the hill. Seahawks are lacking everywhere but the wide receiver room and they're allowing career average Geno Smith look good.
Wilson has not won big games since the defense stopped being elite and he lost Marshawn. In fact, he has zero playoff wins in eight years when his defense gives up at least ONE touchdown. Lots of regular season stats and wins, however has failed to win the important ones that also matter in January.
I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
And we think $72 million for Golladay was a bad contract
I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Wilson didn't look good last season.
We've been through these numbers. When his throwing hand wasn't injured he wasn't good, he was fantastic.
I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
At $245M....Wilson had better be the better QB by a large margin. Seattle is a better team right now with Geno Smith.
Lot of people discredited Pete Carroll with the success of them and how he's now over the hill. Seahawks are lacking everywhere but the wide receiver room and they're allowing career average Geno Smith look good.
Wilson has not won big games since the defense stopped being elite and he lost Marshawn. In fact, he has zero playoff wins in eight years when his defense gives up at least ONE touchdown. Lots of regular season stats and wins, however has failed to win the important ones that also matter in January.
The unsung pieces to this unexpected start for Seattle are the two rookie tackles - Abraham Lucas (RT) and Charles Cross (LT). It looks like Seattle may have solved a critical need in one draft. If so, what a job by Scheider/Carroll.
Wilson was in Seattle for ten years and made the playoffs 8X. They got to two SBs, won one, and won at least one game in the playoffs for six of those eight years. And in the latter half of his career, he had to manage around some atrocious offensive lines. So, I'm not sure what more you want. The guy was a model of consistency.
It feels very strange having to even bring up these points to the board, who act like Wilson was just a passenger in Seattle and not the driver of that bus.
The end of the year, they will probably let go of Hackett and then Wilson and his outrageous contract is the beneficiary. What can they do? He's looked horrible. They're locked in to that for at least four years. Their loss.
Lot of people discredited Pete Carroll with the success of them and how he's now over the hill. Seahawks are lacking everywhere but the wide receiver room and they're allowing career average Geno Smith look good.
Wilson has not won big games since the defense stopped being elite and he lost Marshawn. In fact, he has zero playoff wins in eight years when his defense gives up at least ONE touchdown. Lots of regular season stats and wins, however has failed to win the important ones that also matter in January.
That is a pathetically transparent torturing of data in an odd attempt to try to discredit a very good player
may need to be chalked up to no reps and few starter snaps in the three preseason games. My suspicions are that as these vet qb's and o-lines settle in with the receivers and rb's, that things will look different in a few weeks.
Also keep in mind that DC's facing teams with rookie qb's (or those who haven't played much) or new OC's have no film to study. (and vice versa). You can get away with anything in the NFL for about 4 or 5 weeks. Once the DC's and OC's have enough film to study, you may see some of this stuff sorting itself out.
Ryan, who has thrown for 61,000 yards and closing in on 400 td's, and Wilson who has thrown for 38,000 yards and 300 td's didn't suddenly forget how to play qb and Geno Smith at age 31 and on his 4th team didn't suddenly become a great qb.
not being that good any more or without Pete Caroll and a run heavy / emphasis on Defense team.
The fact is Russ Wilson has never looked good being the focal point of the offense. Caroll didn't like it even though eh made exceptions for him that I am sure is what drove his teammates crazy.
The fact is if you let Russ cook I'd rather go to McDonalds. I would take Chad Powers any day. let alone a supposedly "elite" QB for 230 mil and a ton of draft pics.
Bottom line would you still trade for him as Giant given what you know now? If the answer is yes you have lost your mind.
The fact is Russ Wilson has never looked good being the focal point of the offense.
For another member of the Daft & Uninformed Club...
Look at the QBRs, total TDs, TD/INT ratio, Y/A, etc in Seattle. Specifically, looks at the years without Lynch, who left in 2015, where Wilson had his best years.
The fact is Russ Wilson has never looked good being the focal point of the offense.
For another member of the Daft & Uninformed Club...
Look at the QBRs, total TDs, TD/INT ratio, Y/A, etc in Seattle. Specifically, looks at the years without Lynch, who left in 2015, where Wilson had his best years. Information - ( New Window )
I was not talking about that. I specifically said when I was talking about. So you decided to cherry pick years without Marshawn Lynch and describe those as the focal point.
Also you are picking a time from 7 years ago! Furthermore QBR? I know this might come across as whatever, but I just think ESPN made up a stat in order to make themselves not look foolish when they hype someone up and they turn out like a Ryan.
may need to be chalked up to no reps and few starter snaps in the three preseason games. My suspicions are that as these vet qb's and o-lines settle in with the receivers and rb's, that things will look different in a few weeks.
Also keep in mind that DC's facing teams with rookie qb's (or those who haven't played much) or new OC's have no film to study. (and vice versa). You can get away with anything in the NFL for about 4 or 5 weeks. Once the DC's and OC's have enough film to study, you may see some of this stuff sorting itself out.
Ryan, who has thrown for 61,000 yards and closing in on 400 td's, and Wilson who has thrown for 38,000 yards and 300 td's didn't suddenly forget how to play qb and Geno Smith at age 31 and on his 4th team didn't suddenly become a great qb.
Ryan is 37 years old and hasn't played at a high level for some time now. I think he's just finished, like Eli was at the end.
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
C’mon man. It’s not just tonight. He hasn’t played well at all. He has plenty of offensive weapons. People complained about, “Let Russ cook!” in Seattle. Well, he got his wish. He’s where he wanted to be. He isn’t cooking so well and, looks like a fork is sprouting from his back.
Meanwhile Geno is cooking pretty well in Seattle. Between what they got in the trade return and how they’re playing this year, Pete Carroll looks like a combo of John Dillinger and Harry Houdini. The guy has really done a masterful job all around.
Seattle has won 2 games, 1 of which was against the horrible Broncos (barely). I would not call that masterful.
I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Eventually, the bell tolls even for HoF QBs. And you're not only betting on Wilson, you're betting on Hackett, his staff, and his system all coming together at the same time, before the ungodly mortgage in cap and draft capital comes due. If you're making the play for the established, big-name QB, might make sense to also have an established, HC with a proven system. Maybe the QB is the one missing piece, like Peyton was. Or maybe not. Right now, this doesn't look like it will end well for the Broncos. And btw, this has nothing to do with Jones.
I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Eventually, the bell tolls even for HoF QBs. And you're not only betting on Wilson, you're betting on Hackett, his staff, and his system all coming together at the same time, before the ungodly mortgage in cap and draft capital comes due. If you're making the play for the established, big-name QB, might make sense to also have an established, HC with a proven system. Maybe the QB is the one missing piece, like Peyton was. Or maybe not. Right now, this doesn't look like it will end well for the Broncos. And btw, this has nothing to do with Jones.
I don't have a problem with anything you are saying. Wilson has played poorly so far. Great QBs sometimes have poor stretches. But Wilson's problems don't look like they are on his talent. If Hackett can't straighten things out, he'll be gone after this season. And as for Wilson, I sooner bet he straightens things out eventually, than I bet on a guy who has never done it, suddenly becoming as good as Wilson's established level of play.
Brady and Rodgers have distorted the view of how QBs decline.
Eli started declining around 35. Matt Ryan's 37 and I think he's been declining for a few years and looks cooked now.
Wilson's going to be 34 next month, has a style more dependent on quickness and agility. Not unfathomable that he's meaningfully declined. Maybe he bounces back and this is more on Hackett than Wilson.
I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Why do you ALWAYS have to bring Daniel Jones into the conversation? Why is it impossible for people to evaluate Russell Wilson simply because Jones hasn’t been good? You constantly try to throw off the topic at hand and somehow integrate Jones into the equation.
And another thing. Wilson is 33 years old and making over $40M per season, so you’re damn right people expect him to be a hell of a lot better than Jones. Some of you are consistently using Jones’ draft status as the reason he better be a stud. Why aren’t people allowed to hold Wilson to the same standard after signing the largest contract in NFL history? No gives a shit what he did 5 years ago, he’s making that money NOW. Evaluate what he is now, not in the good ole days. Oh, and keep Jones out of every freakin thread
He got the big contract and has already won a a Superbowl. I believe he is still talented but it appears some of the desire is gone and I think he has turned into a bit of a prima donna. I wanted him and was wrong.
Lot of people discredited Pete Carroll with the success of them and how he's now over the hill. Seahawks are lacking everywhere but the wide receiver room and they're allowing career average Geno Smith look good.
Wilson has not won big games since the defense stopped being elite and he lost Marshawn. In fact, he has zero playoff wins in eight years when his defense gives up at least ONE touchdown. Lots of regular season stats and wins, however has failed to win the important ones that also matter in January.
The unsung pieces to this unexpected start for Seattle are the two rookie tackles - Abraham Lucas (RT) and Charles Cross (LT). It looks like Seattle may have solved a critical need in one draft. If so, what a job by Scheider/Carroll.
Wilson was in Seattle for ten years and made the playoffs 8X. They got to two SBs, won one, and won at least one game in the playoffs for six of those eight years. And in the latter half of his career, he had to manage around some atrocious offensive lines. So, I'm not sure what more you want. The guy was a model of consistency.
It feels very strange having to even bring up these points to the board, who act like Wilson was just a passenger in Seattle and not the driver of that bus.
No one is saying he wasn't great before.
We're talking (at least some of us) about the here and now; some (many?) on this board were clamoring for NYG to trade for him, while others argued against it. Many ignored the fact he was going to be 34 years old (which is an age some QB's start their decline) and were perfectly OK trading away 3-4 draft picks (including what was assumed to include multiple #1's) AND players for this guy. And then have to pay him franchise QB type of money
Others of us - ie, much more rational - thought that was stupid. Especially for a team that was many players away from being a good team.
Wilson has been atrocious this year, and yet you continue to make excuses for him.
Oh, and here's an interesting article on Wilson's performance last night. Linky - ( New Window )
were playing well, it didn't make sense for the Giants to trade for him. The timing of the Giants rise and Wilson's decline would never have resulted in a real window for us.
Independent of the Giants, his poor performance this year is interesting to examine. It would be very surprising if he just became bad this year. Possible, yes, but I strongly suspect there are major coaching problems in Denver.
Brady and Rodgers have distorted the view of how QBs decline.
Eli started declining around 35. Matt Ryan's 37 and I think he's been declining for a few years and looks cooked now.
Wilson's going to be 34 next month, has a style more dependent on quickness and agility. Not unfathomable that he's meaningfully declined. Maybe he bounces back and this is more on Hackett than Wilson.
This is an important point for everyone to consider. Primes have gotten longer, but you can't bank on guys being good into their late 40s. Brady in particular is just super human.
Big part of it is how well you process and make decisions. QB's who are better here can advance the years to a point.
Those relying more on athletic ability it gets shortened.
Brees said at the end he could "slice them" up in the intermediate range. He struggled going deeper and I saw a couple games where SP would bring in Hill to get the ball downfield.
What also can extend primes is teams who understand their QB and build accordingly. Makes no sense to have a pocket passer (older) and give him either a crap running game AND/OR upper tier WR's with a functional PB Oline as they age.
I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Why do you ALWAYS have to bring Daniel Jones into the conversation? Why is it impossible for people to evaluate Russell Wilson simply because Jones hasn’t been good? You constantly try to throw off the topic at hand and somehow integrate Jones into the equation.
And another thing. Wilson is 33 years old and making over $40M per season, so you’re damn right people expect him to be a hell of a lot better than Jones. Some of you are consistently using Jones’ draft status as the reason he better be a stud. Why aren’t people allowed to hold Wilson to the same standard after signing the largest contract in NFL history? No gives a shit what he did 5 years ago, he’s making that money NOW. Evaluate what he is now, not in the good ole days. Oh, and keep Jones out of every freakin thread
am i allowed to evaluate Wilson somewhat on his proven talent and the breadth of his career, or part of his career? Or I must evaluate him on a small sample size, 5-game stretch. Last season, when he wasn't hurt, he was great.
I bring Daniel Jones up bc I'm a Giants fan, and I want to see us aspire to have a great QB, and not settle for someone who hasn't proven anything in 3+ years. And I happen to know you agree with me. You just don't like my style.
were playing well, it didn't make sense for the Giants to trade for him. The timing of the Giants rise and Wilson's decline would never have resulted in a real window for us.
Independent of the Giants, his poor performance this year is interesting to examine. It would be very surprising if he just became bad this year. Possible, yes, but I strongly suspect there are major coaching problems in Denver.
I was glad Schoen made the call (per reports) to see Wilson's availability. I would have supported the move if Schoen could make it work.
Now, we could have dodged a major bullet if Wilson has hit the wall. But I'm not ready to declare him flatlined yet. He's got a lot of experience and has always been a problem solver...
were playing well, it didn't make sense for the Giants to trade for him. The timing of the Giants rise and Wilson's decline would never have resulted in a real window for us.
Independent of the Giants, his poor performance this year is interesting to examine. It would be very surprising if he just became bad this year. Possible, yes, but I strongly suspect there are major coaching problems in Denver.
I was glad Schoen made the call (per reports) to see Wilson's availability. I would have supported the move if Schoen could make it work.
Now, we could have dodged a major bullet if Wilson has hit the wall. But I'm not ready to declare him flatlined yet. He's got a lot of experience and has always been a problem solver...
Oh I like that he made the call. I want the GM to be active, particularly in aggressively pursuing high end QB talent. For me the deal only made would have worked if Wilson had 4+ prime years left. While that was a possibility, I thought the probability was way too low for us to make that kind of investment
RE: RE: I have had just enough of Wilson at this point.
Jared Goff starts on my fantasy teams next week...
he's been brutal for fantasy. there's no doubt. i think he'll come around statistically eventually but who knows when.
The Denver defense is getting me more points that Wilson. I am lucky to be 3-1 at this point but he isn't helping...
better to cycle between hot QBs or pickup Geno Smith. I picked up Geno in case Rodgers doesn't get his act together in one league. I don't think I'm playing Geno this week, but another week of lackluster performance ...
My picture is better
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resolution for these games not as sharp as HD on regular cable?
My picture is better
He fucking stinks
+1...pic sucks.
Geno Smith is s playing better this season
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The Giants really missed out!
Geno Smith is s playing better this season
My post was dripping with sarcasm. Wilson’s been mediocre, at best, this season. But there are some here who think it would’ve been a sound investment to trade for him.
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In comment 15849007 bwitz said:
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The Giants really missed out!
Geno Smith is s playing better this season
My post was dripping with sarcasm. Wilson’s been mediocre, at best, this season. But there are some here who think it would’ve been a sound investment to trade for him.
Yea, I know, was just adding on.
The beard, I suppose
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In comment 15849027 joeinpa said:
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In comment 15849007 bwitz said:
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The Giants really missed out!
Geno Smith is s playing better this season
My post was dripping with sarcasm. Wilson’s been mediocre, at best, this season. But there are some here who think it would’ve been a sound investment to trade for him.
Yea, I know, was just adding on.
You see, this is why a sarcasm font is necessary.
He went to Harvard and and played in the NFL for 16 years.
Jim Irsay has no one to blame but Jim Irsay.
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Parlay a great job on Amazon after his craptacular career?
He went to Harvard and and played in the NFL for 16 years.
Tony Gonzalez, Andrew Witworth, and Richard Sherman.
Did any of them play for 9 different teams?
Also, am I alone when feeling sick and tired of how the colts blew they playoffs by losing to javksonvill.r. The colts aren’t that good.
2 years ago they started 0-3 and we’re still talking playoffs. Then last year they jettison Wentz. I wonder what the excuse is going to be this year.
Simple. When he interviewed he said he was Connor McGregor. Amazon still hasn’t figured out he’s Ryan Fitzpatrick.
X 1,000.
Brady said at a press conference yesterday that there is a lot of bad football being played right now. Truer words have never been spoken.
Product is abysmal right now.
Colts have a lot of money tied up in their Online and when you don't win with that ( 3 years in a row) you begin to fade.. All they have are pieces, the exact opposite of our problem- solid team concept but our pieces are lacking...
Now Denver- holy shit what a mess. Wilson is average at best, WR's have talent but haven't played to that talent and now your young RB is done and may be for quite a while...
Whoa. Keep some of those excuses in your pocket. You’re going to need them. 😉
And yes the picture is blurry on the wide field view.
FWIW, DeForest Buckner is actually the same size as Aaron Judge. 6'7" 287 is his listed size vs Judge 6'7" 282 and it looks like Judge has the bigger frame.
I don't know, but he sure looks cooked right now.
What a fucking joke..
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I'm giving up at halftime
X 1,000.
Brady said at a press conference yesterday that there is a lot of bad football being played right now. Truer words have never been spoken.
Product is abysmal right now.
Quote:
Not helping his team. Glad we did not go after this guy.
There were a lot of posters who wanted no part of Wilson.
I don't know, but he sure looks cooked right now.
Without a QB, you need so much to go your way. Ultimately you lose guys to injury, age, and cap. Their approach to trying to patch the QB hole was reasonable. But it didn't work with 3 guys now and their window might be closed.
This is horrendous, its unwatchable
Without a QB, you need so much to go your way. Ultimately you lose guys to injury, age, and cap. Their approach to trying to patch the QB hole was reasonable. But it didn't work with 3 guys now and their window might be closed.
Both of these teams are demonstrating how futile you can be when you can’t protect your quarterback
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are a perfect example of what happens when you don't have a QB. Despite having a lot of talent for a few years, their ceiling was low and their window was short.
Without a QB, you need so much to go your way. Ultimately you lose guys to injury, age, and cap. Their approach to trying to patch the QB hole was reasonable. But it didn't work with 3 guys now and their window might be closed.
Both of these teams are demonstrating how futile you can be when you can’t protect your quarterback
Hmm, I think it is way more than that. These QB'd are more rep than current ability. Wilson is beyond overrated and Ryan is clearly a shadow of his former self.
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
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In comment 15849127 Jerry in_DC said:
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are a perfect example of what happens when you don't have a QB. Despite having a lot of talent for a few years, their ceiling was low and their window was short.
Without a QB, you need so much to go your way. Ultimately you lose guys to injury, age, and cap. Their approach to trying to patch the QB hole was reasonable. But it didn't work with 3 guys now and their window might be closed.
Both of these teams are demonstrating how futile you can be when you can’t protect your quarterback
Hmm, I think it is way more than that. These QB'd are more rep than current ability. Wilson is beyond overrated and Ryan is clearly a shadow of his former self.
Sure, but they aren’t this bad
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Just yet. New system. Early in the year. The coach is way over his head. It’s painful.
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
When will the excuse train stop for Russell Wilson? Lol.
Eli was 1000% correct on his take.
But since week 1 Ryan has looked absolutely shot.
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What is that, like 15 punts between them?
Eli was 1000% correct on his take.
What was his take?
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In comment 15849144 Greg from LI said:
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What is that, like 15 punts between them?
Eli was 1000% correct on his take.
What was his take?
Pay the Punter not Wilson..
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In comment 15849144 Greg from LI said:
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What is that, like 15 punts between them?
Eli was 1000% correct on his take.
What was his take?
He mad a joke last week about how they should’ve paid the punter what they paid Wilson since he averaged more yards than him.
I guess medium scoring games are the way to go
...hmm, yes, it's offensive.
I guess medium scoring games are the way to go
You may be slinging sarcasm here but, you’re not wrong. People want exciting, competitive games. This may be competitive but, it’s like watching paint dry.
I’d take a ludicrous, high scoring game over this crap any day.
Just another chapter in the history of pro football where the owners demonstrate that they play chess and the NFLPA plays Candyland.
This.
Ryan's arm is even slow...how awful is he.
Pretty crazy to me Reich & Ballard are most likely gonna get canned and they hitched their wagon to an over the hill Matt Ryan.
You saying it s not?
I was wondering how far back they had to go to find that, lol
Ryan's arm is even slow...how awful is he.
Ryan looks like he's throwing a medicine ball.
Colts have had some tremendous drafts
Broncos got their missing piece with Wilson….
They both look awful
That said - they are both clearly much better football teams than the Giants right now. But we can be hopeful for the first time in a long time. So there’s that.
Colts have had some tremendous drafts
Broncos got their missing piece with Wilson….
They both look awful
That said - they are both clearly much better football teams than the Giants right now. But we can be hopeful for the first time in a long time. So there’s that.
Clearly much better? Based on what exactly. These teams look mediocre - average to me. We’re in the same range.
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Just yet. New system. Early in the year. The coach is way over his head. It’s painful.
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
That said - they are both clearly much better football teams than the Giants right now. But we can be hopeful for the first time in a long time. So there’s that.
Are they clearly better?
I'd laugh me ass off if the Colts get the TD.
It won't.
Haha
Free football!
As Mike Ditka once said, "tits merble merble"
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
Wilson is pathetically bad..
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In comment 15849140 bw in dc said:
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
I am sorry Wilson has been awful!!
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
I am sorry Wilson has been awful!!
He has. But I don't think it's an erosion of skills. I think it's just an offense completely stuck ineptitude. And Wilson is pressing. Badly.
I’ll see myself out.
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In comment 15849140 bw in dc said:
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
C’mon man. It’s not just tonight. He hasn’t played well at all. He has plenty of offensive weapons. People complained about, “Let Russ cook!” in Seattle. Well, he got his wish. He’s where he wanted to be. He isn’t cooking so well and, looks like a fork is sprouting from his back.
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In comment 15849140 bw in dc said:
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
Offenses not in sync. Haven’t you preached or a while now about that being the responsibility of the quarterback
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In comment 15849140 bw in dc said:
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
I have. And I’m not shocked you’re finding excuses for Wilson. How the fuck do you justify the pick in the end zone?! That was an. AWFUL throw. Nothing to doo with the playcall, it was TERRIBLE execution!
But to your pathetic attempt to defend Wilson re offense being in sync - Jones had joe fucking judge and jason fucking Garrett!! How the fuck can anyone possibly get in sync with that combination?
Not to mention that Wilson has something that Jones hasn’t had - actual talent at WR, TE, OL and RB.
🙄
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In comment 15849140 bw in dc said:
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
But yet, you clamor about how Jones is supposed to elevate everyone around him and rise above it.
Why shouldn’t Wilson have to do the same??
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
Offenses not in sync. Haven’t you preached or a while now about that being the responsibility of the quarterback
It's the job of the QB to execute the offense.
Right now, it looks like he's struggling to do that.
No doubt. Have fun with that russell wilson contract...wooooof
But yet, you clamor about how Jones is supposed to elevate everyone around him and rise above it.
Why shouldn’t Wilson have to do the same??
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
Wilson might be the only player I wouldn't trade Kenny Golladay straight up for
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In comment 15849199 bw in dc said:
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
I am sorry Wilson has been awful!!
He has. But I don't think it's an erosion of skills. I think it's just an offense completely stuck ineptitude. And Wilson is pressing. Badly.
He’s supposed to elevate the team. At least that’s what people said here when they were advocating giving up a boatload of picks and absurd money to acquire him.
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In comment 15849199 bw in dc said:
But yet, you clamor about how Jones is supposed to elevate everyone around him and rise above it.
Why shouldn’t Wilson have to do the same??
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
The past means nothing when comparing what someone is doing on the field right now. Wilson looks awful, makes horrible decisions and was directly responsible for tonight's loss.
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In comment 15849199 bw in dc said:
But yet, you clamor about how Jones is supposed to elevate everyone around him and rise above it.
Why shouldn’t Wilson have to do the same??
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
That has NOTHING to do with the present; you (and others) advocated for a trade for a 33 year old QB who showed signs of being cooked last year, to a team that was infinitely less talented than DEN.
He’s playing with a team that has talent galore on offense, and Wilson has absolutely SUCKED thru 5 games.
Truth.
Perfect. Lmao.
Wilson might be the only player I wouldn't trade Kenny Golladay straight up for
+1
Too much $$$$$$ to end it
QB’s that we’re supposed to be the missing piece - ones that were traded for a significant number of draft picks/players - make those plays in their sleep. Especially with the talent around him.
QB Russell Wilson
2022 fourth-round pick
Seahawks get:
QB Drew Lock
DT Shelby Harris
TE Noah Fant
2022 first-round pick
2022 second-round pick
2022 fifth-round pick
2023 first-round pick
2023 second-round pick
I can't say for sure, but it looks to me like he needs 4 more weeks of camp.
Of course, in 4 weeks it will be too little, too late.
The decisions, the timing, everything seems off.
QB Russell Wilson
2022 fourth-round pick
Seahawks get:
QB Drew Lock
DT Shelby Harris
TE Noah Fant
2022 first-round pick
2022 second-round pick
2022 fifth-round pick
2023 first-round pick
2023 second-round pick
Woof.
Hackett makes me appreciate Pat Shurmur
These teams have sucked on Sundays too
"I'm all in favor of it"
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
The past means nothing when comparing what someone is doing on the field right now. Wilson looks awful, makes horrible decisions and was directly responsible for tonight's loss.
I think that's fair. But I'm not ready to write this guy off yet after five games. IMV, he's got enough equity built up to work his way through this.
And he's not really alone. A lot of QBs are playing below par right now. See Ryan, Brady, Satfford, Carr, Burrow, Murray. Even Rodgers.
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Broncos get:
QB Russell Wilson
2022 fourth-round pick
Seahawks get:
QB Drew Lock
DT Shelby Harris
TE Noah Fant
2022 first-round pick
2022 second-round pick
2022 fifth-round pick
2023 first-round pick
2023 second-round pick
Woof.
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In comment 15849229 bw in dc said:
You do realize Wilson has a decade of production where he has lifted the team around him, right?
So, he has some stripes...
Right now, he is not playing well.
The past means nothing when comparing what someone is doing on the field right now. Wilson looks awful, makes horrible decisions and was directly responsible for tonight's loss.
I think that's fair. But I'm not ready to write this guy off yet after five games. IMV, he's got enough equity built up to work his way through this.
And he's not really alone. A lot of QBs are playing below par right now. See Ryan, Brady, Satfford, Carr, Burrow, Murray. Even Rodgers.
There were plenty of threads clamoring for us to dump DJ and find a way to sign Wilson. I'm not accusing you, but a lot of people thought Wilson would do well on this offense. I think it's clear at this point he would have been an awful acquisition.
That has NOTHING to do with the present; you (and others) advocated for a trade for a 33 year old QB who showed signs of being cooked last year, to a team that was infinitely less talented than DEN.
He’s playing with a team that has talent galore on offense, and Wilson has absolutely SUCKED thru 5 games.
Truth.
Well, I don't want to go over old real estate again, but Wilson was injured last year and was playing well before he got hurt and towards the end of the year when the thumb started to heal. Of course, that would require you having an understanding of those details.
I keep hearing about all of this talent Denver has on offense. Outside of Sutton, who has actually produced good results, where is all this talent you are talking about?
Well a couple things could have factored in:
- they didn't want a tie
- they didn't think they could stop the colts
- they only needed a yard for a first down
Stopping the Colts and getting the ball back in under 3 min is tall order. The Colts last two drives resulted in FGs and one of only took 2 min to go 70 yards. Maybe the Broncos stop them, but that d did not play well the final 2 possessions. Might have been gassed
That was KJ Hamler and plenty of Broncos fans on their message board noticed it.
Wilson missed a lot tonight.
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In comment 15849182 speedywheels said:
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In comment 15849140 bw in dc said:
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
C’mon man. It’s not just tonight. He hasn’t played well at all. He has plenty of offensive weapons. People complained about, “Let Russ cook!” in Seattle. Well, he got his wish. He’s where he wanted to be. He isn’t cooking so well and, looks like a fork is sprouting from his back.
Meanwhile Geno is cooking pretty well in Seattle. Between what they got in the trade return and how they’re playing this year, Pete Carroll looks like a combo of John Dillinger and Harry Houdini. The guy has really done a masterful job all around.
I still think Wilson will turn it around in Denver. Denver's HC may be worse than Judge.
What a snooze fest that game was.
On the other hand, Ryan looked like toast. Dying quails and inaccurate - a deadly combination.
Neither team will leave co-ordinators sleepless.
So, let's say Wilson comes out of it and starts playing well. They don't have a first or second round draft choice next year to build up the rest of the team.
It was not a good trade. They should hire a better GM like Gettleman, I hear he's available. They could lure him out of retirement.
Wilson is pathetically bad..
I wanted Pierce on the Giants over Robinson.
Shouldn't Wilson be a force multiplier?
In all seriousness, I have no idea if the guy is injured and he's had a hell of a career to date... but bottom line is DEN (and Colts) just outright stink right now and I am glad we didn't mortgage the farm to get Wilson.
LOL
Shouldn't Wilson be a force multiplier?
In all seriousness, I have no idea if the guy is injured and he's had a hell of a career to date... but bottom line is DEN (and Colts) just outright stink right now and I am glad we didn't mortgage the farm to get Wilson.
Wilson is indeed being paid to play at a high level. And right now, he's failing.
But he's been a great QB in this league for a long time. And I'm not ready to give his eulogy until I see more evidence than five games into a season with a new team and first time HC.
In my view, he deserves the benefit of the doubt to figure this thing out. He's earned that.
Furthermore, I don't buy that he was deteriorating last year. He had a thumb injury. Before the injury, he was play very well. When the thumb healed the final four games of the season, Wilson started to find his game again.
Lot of people discredited Pete Carroll with the success of them and how he's now over the hill. Seahawks are lacking everywhere but the wide receiver room and they're allowing career average Geno Smith look good.
Wilson has not won big games since the defense stopped being elite and he lost Marshawn. In fact, he has zero playoff wins in eight years when his defense gives up at least ONE touchdown. Lots of regular season stats and wins, however has failed to win the important ones that also matter in January.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Wilson didn't look good last season.
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I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Wilson didn't look good last season.
We've been through these numbers. When his throwing hand wasn't injured he wasn't good, he was fantastic.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
At $245M....Wilson had better be the better QB by a large margin. Seattle is a better team right now with Geno Smith.
Lot of people discredited Pete Carroll with the success of them and how he's now over the hill. Seahawks are lacking everywhere but the wide receiver room and they're allowing career average Geno Smith look good.
Wilson has not won big games since the defense stopped being elite and he lost Marshawn. In fact, he has zero playoff wins in eight years when his defense gives up at least ONE touchdown. Lots of regular season stats and wins, however has failed to win the important ones that also matter in January.
The unsung pieces to this unexpected start for Seattle are the two rookie tackles - Abraham Lucas (RT) and Charles Cross (LT). It looks like Seattle may have solved a critical need in one draft. If so, what a job by Scheider/Carroll.
Wilson was in Seattle for ten years and made the playoffs 8X. They got to two SBs, won one, and won at least one game in the playoffs for six of those eight years. And in the latter half of his career, he had to manage around some atrocious offensive lines. So, I'm not sure what more you want. The guy was a model of consistency.
It feels very strange having to even bring up these points to the board, who act like Wilson was just a passenger in Seattle and not the driver of that bus.
Lot of people discredited Pete Carroll with the success of them and how he's now over the hill. Seahawks are lacking everywhere but the wide receiver room and they're allowing career average Geno Smith look good.
Wilson has not won big games since the defense stopped being elite and he lost Marshawn. In fact, he has zero playoff wins in eight years when his defense gives up at least ONE touchdown. Lots of regular season stats and wins, however has failed to win the important ones that also matter in January.
That is a pathetically transparent torturing of data in an odd attempt to try to discredit a very good player
Also keep in mind that DC's facing teams with rookie qb's (or those who haven't played much) or new OC's have no film to study. (and vice versa). You can get away with anything in the NFL for about 4 or 5 weeks. Once the DC's and OC's have enough film to study, you may see some of this stuff sorting itself out.
Ryan, who has thrown for 61,000 yards and closing in on 400 td's, and Wilson who has thrown for 38,000 yards and 300 td's didn't suddenly forget how to play qb and Geno Smith at age 31 and on his 4th team didn't suddenly become a great qb.
The fact is Russ Wilson has never looked good being the focal point of the offense. Caroll didn't like it even though eh made exceptions for him that I am sure is what drove his teammates crazy.
The fact is if you let Russ cook I'd rather go to McDonalds. I would take Chad Powers any day. let alone a supposedly "elite" QB for 230 mil and a ton of draft pics.
Bottom line would you still trade for him as Giant given what you know now? If the answer is yes you have lost your mind.
The fact is Russ Wilson has never looked good being the focal point of the offense.
For another member of the Daft & Uninformed Club...
Look at the QBRs, total TDs, TD/INT ratio, Y/A, etc in Seattle. Specifically, looks at the years without Lynch, who left in 2015, where Wilson had his best years.
Information - ( New Window )
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The fact is Russ Wilson has never looked good being the focal point of the offense.
For another member of the Daft & Uninformed Club...
Look at the QBRs, total TDs, TD/INT ratio, Y/A, etc in Seattle. Specifically, looks at the years without Lynch, who left in 2015, where Wilson had his best years. Information - ( New Window )
I was not talking about that. I specifically said when I was talking about. So you decided to cherry pick years without Marshawn Lynch and describe those as the focal point.
Also you are picking a time from 7 years ago! Furthermore QBR? I know this might come across as whatever, but I just think ESPN made up a stat in order to make themselves not look foolish when they hype someone up and they turn out like a Ryan.
Also keep in mind that DC's facing teams with rookie qb's (or those who haven't played much) or new OC's have no film to study. (and vice versa). You can get away with anything in the NFL for about 4 or 5 weeks. Once the DC's and OC's have enough film to study, you may see some of this stuff sorting itself out.
Ryan, who has thrown for 61,000 yards and closing in on 400 td's, and Wilson who has thrown for 38,000 yards and 300 td's didn't suddenly forget how to play qb and Geno Smith at age 31 and on his 4th team didn't suddenly become a great qb.
Ryan is 37 years old and hasn't played at a high level for some time now. I think he's just finished, like Eli was at the end.
He had a very good career - and he still might have some good games - but he's not close to the same guy anymore.
I'm loving every second of it.
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In comment 15849199 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15849182 speedywheels said:
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In comment 15849140 bw in dc said:
Agreed. Hackett and his offense look like they are playing blindfolded.
LOL - of COURSE you offer up an excuse for Wilson...
Have you watched this game? Wilson completed a long pass in the third quarter where two Denver receivers were fighting over a 50 yard pass down the middle of the field. Does that look like an offense remotely in sync?
C’mon man. It’s not just tonight. He hasn’t played well at all. He has plenty of offensive weapons. People complained about, “Let Russ cook!” in Seattle. Well, he got his wish. He’s where he wanted to be. He isn’t cooking so well and, looks like a fork is sprouting from his back.
Meanwhile Geno is cooking pretty well in Seattle. Between what they got in the trade return and how they’re playing this year, Pete Carroll looks like a combo of John Dillinger and Harry Houdini. The guy has really done a masterful job all around.
Seattle has won 2 games, 1 of which was against the horrible Broncos (barely). I would not call that masterful.
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To continue their “torturing of America” tour.
I'm loving every second of it.
The worse Denver does, the higher picks Seattle gets
I can't say for sure, but it looks to me like he needs 4 more weeks of camp.
Of course, in 4 weeks it will be too little, too late.
The decisions, the timing, everything seems off.
He was pretty arrogant to not play in the preseason and put in all the work needed for a QB of a new team.
He thinks he's Mahomes/Allen/Burrow/Herbert..........he's not.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Eventually, the bell tolls even for HoF QBs. And you're not only betting on Wilson, you're betting on Hackett, his staff, and his system all coming together at the same time, before the ungodly mortgage in cap and draft capital comes due. If you're making the play for the established, big-name QB, might make sense to also have an established, HC with a proven system. Maybe the QB is the one missing piece, like Peyton was. Or maybe not. Right now, this doesn't look like it will end well for the Broncos. And btw, this has nothing to do with Jones.
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I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Eventually, the bell tolls even for HoF QBs. And you're not only betting on Wilson, you're betting on Hackett, his staff, and his system all coming together at the same time, before the ungodly mortgage in cap and draft capital comes due. If you're making the play for the established, big-name QB, might make sense to also have an established, HC with a proven system. Maybe the QB is the one missing piece, like Peyton was. Or maybe not. Right now, this doesn't look like it will end well for the Broncos. And btw, this has nothing to do with Jones.
I don't have a problem with anything you are saying. Wilson has played poorly so far. Great QBs sometimes have poor stretches. But Wilson's problems don't look like they are on his talent. If Hackett can't straighten things out, he'll be gone after this season. And as for Wilson, I sooner bet he straightens things out eventually, than I bet on a guy who has never done it, suddenly becoming as good as Wilson's established level of play.
Eli started declining around 35. Matt Ryan's 37 and I think he's been declining for a few years and looks cooked now.
Wilson's going to be 34 next month, has a style more dependent on quickness and agility. Not unfathomable that he's meaningfully declined. Maybe he bounces back and this is more on Hackett than Wilson.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Why do you ALWAYS have to bring Daniel Jones into the conversation? Why is it impossible for people to evaluate Russell Wilson simply because Jones hasn’t been good? You constantly try to throw off the topic at hand and somehow integrate Jones into the equation.
And another thing. Wilson is 33 years old and making over $40M per season, so you’re damn right people expect him to be a hell of a lot better than Jones. Some of you are consistently using Jones’ draft status as the reason he better be a stud. Why aren’t people allowed to hold Wilson to the same standard after signing the largest contract in NFL history? No gives a shit what he did 5 years ago, he’s making that money NOW. Evaluate what he is now, not in the good ole days. Oh, and keep Jones out of every freakin thread
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Lot of people discredited Pete Carroll with the success of them and how he's now over the hill. Seahawks are lacking everywhere but the wide receiver room and they're allowing career average Geno Smith look good.
Wilson has not won big games since the defense stopped being elite and he lost Marshawn. In fact, he has zero playoff wins in eight years when his defense gives up at least ONE touchdown. Lots of regular season stats and wins, however has failed to win the important ones that also matter in January.
The unsung pieces to this unexpected start for Seattle are the two rookie tackles - Abraham Lucas (RT) and Charles Cross (LT). It looks like Seattle may have solved a critical need in one draft. If so, what a job by Scheider/Carroll.
Wilson was in Seattle for ten years and made the playoffs 8X. They got to two SBs, won one, and won at least one game in the playoffs for six of those eight years. And in the latter half of his career, he had to manage around some atrocious offensive lines. So, I'm not sure what more you want. The guy was a model of consistency.
It feels very strange having to even bring up these points to the board, who act like Wilson was just a passenger in Seattle and not the driver of that bus.
No one is saying he wasn't great before.
We're talking (at least some of us) about the here and now; some (many?) on this board were clamoring for NYG to trade for him, while others argued against it. Many ignored the fact he was going to be 34 years old (which is an age some QB's start their decline) and were perfectly OK trading away 3-4 draft picks (including what was assumed to include multiple #1's) AND players for this guy. And then have to pay him franchise QB type of money
Others of us - ie, much more rational - thought that was stupid. Especially for a team that was many players away from being a good team.
Wilson has been atrocious this year, and yet you continue to make excuses for him.
Oh, and here's an interesting article on Wilson's performance last night.
Linky - ( New Window )
Wilson has been atrocious this year, and yet you continue to make excuses for him.
- ( New Window )
I think I've examined the situation properly. Right now, Denver has problems everywhere on offense - Wilson, Hackett, and others on offense.
The difference between my position and others - like you - is I'm not ready to declare Wilson finished after five games.
In the meantime, enjoy the victory dance...
Independent of the Giants, his poor performance this year is interesting to examine. It would be very surprising if he just became bad this year. Possible, yes, but I strongly suspect there are major coaching problems in Denver.
Eli started declining around 35. Matt Ryan's 37 and I think he's been declining for a few years and looks cooked now.
Wilson's going to be 34 next month, has a style more dependent on quickness and agility. Not unfathomable that he's meaningfully declined. Maybe he bounces back and this is more on Hackett than Wilson.
This is an important point for everyone to consider. Primes have gotten longer, but you can't bank on guys being good into their late 40s. Brady in particular is just super human.
Those relying more on athletic ability it gets shortened.
Brees said at the end he could "slice them" up in the intermediate range. He struggled going deeper and I saw a couple games where SP would bring in Hill to get the ball downfield.
What also can extend primes is teams who understand their QB and build accordingly. Makes no sense to have a pocket passer (older) and give him either a crap running game AND/OR upper tier WR's with a functional PB Oline as they age.
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I am amused that according to the geniuses on this board that Wilson a HOF QB is finished after 5 games witb a new team, but Jones who has been bad for 3+ years, still has hope. The inconsistency, homerism and dishonesty is truly stunning.
You can bet on Jones. I'll bet on Wilson.
Why do you ALWAYS have to bring Daniel Jones into the conversation? Why is it impossible for people to evaluate Russell Wilson simply because Jones hasn’t been good? You constantly try to throw off the topic at hand and somehow integrate Jones into the equation.
And another thing. Wilson is 33 years old and making over $40M per season, so you’re damn right people expect him to be a hell of a lot better than Jones. Some of you are consistently using Jones’ draft status as the reason he better be a stud. Why aren’t people allowed to hold Wilson to the same standard after signing the largest contract in NFL history? No gives a shit what he did 5 years ago, he’s making that money NOW. Evaluate what he is now, not in the good ole days. Oh, and keep Jones out of every freakin thread
am i allowed to evaluate Wilson somewhat on his proven talent and the breadth of his career, or part of his career? Or I must evaluate him on a small sample size, 5-game stretch. Last season, when he wasn't hurt, he was great.
I bring Daniel Jones up bc I'm a Giants fan, and I want to see us aspire to have a great QB, and not settle for someone who hasn't proven anything in 3+ years. And I happen to know you agree with me. You just don't like my style.
Independent of the Giants, his poor performance this year is interesting to examine. It would be very surprising if he just became bad this year. Possible, yes, but I strongly suspect there are major coaching problems in Denver.
I was glad Schoen made the call (per reports) to see Wilson's availability. I would have supported the move if Schoen could make it work.
Now, we could have dodged a major bullet if Wilson has hit the wall. But I'm not ready to declare him flatlined yet. He's got a lot of experience and has always been a problem solver...
he's been brutal for fantasy. there's no doubt. i think he'll come around statistically eventually but who knows when.
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were playing well, it didn't make sense for the Giants to trade for him. The timing of the Giants rise and Wilson's decline would never have resulted in a real window for us.
Independent of the Giants, his poor performance this year is interesting to examine. It would be very surprising if he just became bad this year. Possible, yes, but I strongly suspect there are major coaching problems in Denver.
I was glad Schoen made the call (per reports) to see Wilson's availability. I would have supported the move if Schoen could make it work.
Now, we could have dodged a major bullet if Wilson has hit the wall. But I'm not ready to declare him flatlined yet. He's got a lot of experience and has always been a problem solver...
Oh I like that he made the call. I want the GM to be active, particularly in aggressively pursuing high end QB talent. For me the deal only made would have worked if Wilson had 4+ prime years left. While that was a possibility, I thought the probability was way too low for us to make that kind of investment
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Jared Goff starts on my fantasy teams next week...
he's been brutal for fantasy. there's no doubt. i think he'll come around statistically eventually but who knows when.
The Denver defense is getting me more points that Wilson. I am lucky to be 3-1 at this point but he isn't helping...
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In comment 15850208 Jimmy Googs said:
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Jared Goff starts on my fantasy teams next week...
he's been brutal for fantasy. there's no doubt. i think he'll come around statistically eventually but who knows when.
The Denver defense is getting me more points that Wilson. I am lucky to be 3-1 at this point but he isn't helping...
better to cycle between hot QBs or pickup Geno Smith. I picked up Geno in case Rodgers doesn't get his act together in one league. I don't think I'm playing Geno this week, but another week of lackluster performance ...