stink.
I posted this on a long thread that was about to die. I think it’s something that needs to be seen by the board so I’m going to post it on it’s own.
After reading the millionth thread discussing whether to sign Jones or Barkley today I figured I’d bring up a point that nobody is discussing. First I’d like to state that I think JS and BD are smart guys and they came from a franchise that built a team right. I think they get the point of the thread title.
I think they know they need to put a competitive team on the field this year and next. If they don’t they will not be here. So with that in mind I ask you what would this team look like without Barkley? They would be lucky to be 1-3. It doesn’t matter if he is going to be there when the team is ready to compete for a championship. He gives the current regime time to build a team. That’s his value.
If the giants trade Barkley this offense has no chance. How long before the defense starts mailing it in? Then we have last season all over.
Then what's the plan? Draft a new qb and watch him struggle with no weapons.....
It's stupid and why I don't think this front office is even considering it. They understand they need to put a competitive team on the field this year and next to get to year three and four. Barkley provides the front office time. That's what they need to build out the pieces that are needed. That's his value.
And don't be surprised if they extend Jones on a 3 year reasonable contract too. Not because they think he is the long term solution but because he is a guy BD can use to continue to implement his system. If the qb can't run the system, the rest of the players have issued learning it too. It's why Andy Reid signed Smith in KC when he got there. I saw an interview with him and he stated just this. Need a qb that could run the system so the other players could learn it. Once the other players were in place he got his qb. Don't be surprised if we go that route.
This is what I think the Jones evaluation is ultimately about. Picking the wrong QB or forcing one is a good way to the unemployment line especially here. Lots of TBD with Jones, the draft, etc.
We had 3 coaches fired at 2 years or less. They would be fools to think they have the luxury of time.
3 year rebuild is absurd. There is no rebuild. There is a constant state of build.
Rosters turn fast. Players get hurt or move on. Parity is the reality.
A good coach should be near .500 regardless of roster “talent”(catastrophic injury situation not withstanding)
I don’t know what that means for jones next year. What I suspect it means is that rolling with Taylor and saving a few bucks is not likely. JS is constantly looking to upgrade the roster at all positions. Sometimes players get better. Sometimes they get replaced.
Regardless of how close you are to your championship window (another dumb concept) you will always have what parcels called “hold the fort guys”
Go back to the end of Judge's first season. Nobody thought he would be fired after year two...
McAdoo made the playoffs in year 1. Didn't make it thru year two.....
Jones is on pace for 2300 passing yards and less than 1 TD pass per game. Oddly enough...that's about his average the last 3 years (actually worse in yards...but not by much). Tyrod Taylor can put up those numbers...a lot of bad QBs can.
Wasting 3 more years on Jones is straight out of the Dave Gettleman playbook.
It did nothing to build anything. There is no residual effect to "try 100% for winning" if you don't have the foundation. They were awarded no credit for trying hard. There was no culture here except losing and a clown head coach who ran out of ideasand an owner that had to be convinced to fire him. The roster has since been purged, again, so it was all for a blank slate.
We can't keep saying that that stuff matters more than putting enough talent on the field and matching that with the right coach. There is no running back in the NFL that can't be replaced. Simply none. I will enjoy him while he is here. The Giants are not 3-1 without his contribution and also we said the same thing about how tiki barber was so great while he was running for 2000 total yards and then the Giants won a super bowl without him.
While I'm inclined to agree, Judge seemed very promising in his first year as well.
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
Quote:
Than the last two showed in 2 years. He will get a year 3
While I'm inclined to agree, Judge seemed very promising in his first year as well.
I think most on here (want to?) forget that A LOT of Giants fans wanted to make Judge the GM and HC one year ago. There were multiple posts on here saying he should be able to buy his own groceries.
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
By all means listen to sy. He's knowledgeable. Doesn't mean he's the only opinion or the only person qualified to offer a take on Daniel Jones.
There are other pro scouts in the world who have opinions on Jones. It's not as if many pro scouts liked him in the first place. Many didn't.
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
They think it’s easier to project a college QB on an NFL field for some reason. The reality is I feel a helluva lot better projecting him to being a franchise guy with actual talent to throw the ball too than any QB not named Stroud…maybe because even then you have the titled field and arguably the best offensive brain in football coaching him.
Quote:
What the Pro Scout Sy said after the Dallas game:
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
By all means listen to sy. He's knowledgeable. Doesn't mean he's the only opinion or the only person qualified to offer a take on Daniel Jones.
There are other pro scouts in the world who have opinions on Jones. It's not as if many pro scouts liked him in the first place. Many didn't.
And that’s what Mr. giantstock fails to realize.
Quote:
What the Pro Scout Sy said after the Dallas game:
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
By all means listen to sy. He's knowledgeable. Doesn't mean he's the only opinion or the only person qualified to offer a take on Daniel Jones.
There are other pro scouts in the world who have opinions on Jones. It's not as if many pro scouts liked him in the first place. Many didn't.
Yeah but the issue is - on OUR Site here we have a pro scout saying he can--
And when THSESE opinions are expressed
There is HARCH criticism for expressing these views.
It's one thing to say "I don't agree with SY."
It's another when posters rip into you for thinking that Jones still has a chance.
Agree?
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In comment 15849131 giantstock said:
Quote:
What the Pro Scout Sy said after the Dallas game:
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
By all means listen to sy. He's knowledgeable. Doesn't mean he's the only opinion or the only person qualified to offer a take on Daniel Jones.
There are other pro scouts in the world who have opinions on Jones. It's not as if many pro scouts liked him in the first place. Many didn't.
And that’s what Mr. giantstock fails to realize.
You're one of the posters I'm talking about. You made an initial snide comment on that other thread to my post that Jones decision has not yet been decided. I replied back in similar manner. Then you became insulting. I didn't start the insulting. YOU DID.
That's the style of you Jones haters. Yet all I'm doing is leaning toward what SY is saying and yet posters like you after 1 back and forth post are heavily prone to insult.
So I repond in kind.
Quote:
Than the last two showed in 2 years. He will get a year 3
Go back to the end of Judge's first season. Nobody thought he would be fired after year two...
McAdoo made the playoffs in year 1. Didn't make it thru year two.....
Current GM and HC would both have to suck in a major way through Y2 to not make it to Y3. Compare them to their respective predecessors.
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In comment 15849138 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15849131 giantstock said:
Quote:
What the Pro Scout Sy said after the Dallas game:
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
By all means listen to sy. He's knowledgeable. Doesn't mean he's the only opinion or the only person qualified to offer a take on Daniel Jones.
There are other pro scouts in the world who have opinions on Jones. It's not as if many pro scouts liked him in the first place. Many didn't.
And that’s what Mr. giantstock fails to realize.
You're one of the posters I'm talking about. You made an initial snide comment on that other thread to my post that Jones decision has not yet been decided. I replied back in similar manner. Then you became insulting. I didn't start the insulting. YOU DID.
That's the style of you Jones haters. Yet all I'm doing is leaning toward what SY is saying and yet posters like you after 1 back and forth post are heavily prone to insult.
So I repond in kind.
He said to put the game in the "positive pile"...not sign him to an extension. Good grief. We beat the worst team in the NFL and Jones threw for 70 yards and no TDs. He ran well and didn't lose the game...that's the bar for DJ now.
Quote:
What the Pro Scout Sy said after the Dallas game:
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
They think it’s easier to project a college QB on an NFL field for some reason. The reality is I feel a helluva lot better projecting him to being a franchise guy with actual talent to throw the ball too than any QB not named Stroud…maybe because even then you have the titled field and arguably the best offensive brain in football coaching him.
There's a certain delusion here for the many complainers. They think they are pro scouts. It's one thing to disagree but they try to pretend as if they are experts.
One poster that I regularly argue with referred to himself as a "Cosell Disciple."
I kid you not.
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He said to put the game in the "positive pile"...not sign him to an extension. Good grief. We beat the worst team in the NFL and Jones threw for 70 yards and no TDs. He ran well and didn't lose the game...that's the bar for DJ now.
And what does "positive pile" (you forgot to add "In January") mean to you? That he is not DONE as a Giant 100% yet, right? He's implying still "undecided," right?
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In comment 15849160 giantstock said:
Quote:
He said to put the game in the "positive pile"...not sign him to an extension. Good grief. We beat the worst team in the NFL and Jones threw for 70 yards and no TDs. He ran well and didn't lose the game...that's the bar for DJ now.
And what does "positive pile" (you forgot to add "In January") mean to you? That he is not DONE as a Giant 100% yet, right? He's implying still "undecided," right?
That it was "positive" game for Jones...nothing more. Not "great", not "outstanding", just "positive." I'm as big a DJ hater as their is...but, of course it's undecided on Jones. There's 12 games left and he's still playing. If a "positive pile" quote in a long write up is what you're hanging your hat on to Jones being resigned, I suggest you turn to bourbon. Gonna be a long year fighting an uphill battle!
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In comment 15849209 GMen72 said:
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In comment 15849160 giantstock said:
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He said to put the game in the "positive pile"...not sign him to an extension. Good grief. We beat the worst team in the NFL and Jones threw for 70 yards and no TDs. He ran well and didn't lose the game...that's the bar for DJ now.
And what does "positive pile" (you forgot to add "In January") mean to you? That he is not DONE as a Giant 100% yet, right? He's implying still "undecided," right?
That it was "positive" game for Jones...nothing more. Not "great", not "outstanding", just "positive." I'm as big a DJ hater as their is...but, of course it's undecided on Jones. There's 12 games left and he's still playing. If a "positive pile" quote in a long write up is what you're hanging your hat on to Jones being resigned, I suggest you turn to bourbon. Gonna be a long year fighting an uphill battle!
But I'm not "hanging my hat."
I say what you say "its' undecided."
And for that many Jones haters ridicule those of us that say it is "undecided."
That's why Sy is implying here too, isn't he? **That was the point why I provided his comments. He still is undecided.
--------------
I'm agreeing with you it's undecided. There are many, many on here that claim different.
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He pretty much was. Remember that video of Gettleman looking like someone took his candy after the Azeez pick? Another important thing to remember Schoen and Dabes have yet to have any reported conflict with any higher ups that matter. We know ownership hated Shurmur's staff. Judge's staff already hated him by now. The Columbo debacle was sometime in October. And even the most passive observer can't help but notice the difference in gameplanning and preparation.
In comment 15849035 Blue Dream said:
Quote:
Than the last two showed in 2 years. He will get a year 3
While I'm inclined to agree, Judge seemed very promising in his first year as well.
I think most on here (want to?) forget that A LOT of Giants fans wanted to make Judge the GM and HC one year ago. There were multiple posts on here saying he should be able to buy his own groceries.
Quote:
Than the last two showed in 2 years. He will get a year 3
Go back to the end of Judge's first season. Nobody thought he would be fired after year two...
McAdoo made the playoffs in year 1. Didn't make it thru year two.....
Yeah, but those two examples are why picking one specific thing ( winning some games) is not completely accurate.
2016- the writing was on the wall about Eli and yet we stick with him and when the defense faltered where it couldn't win games and the locker room was a mess McAdoo was gone. * Add in the failed attempt in 17 to switch Eli for Geno Smith...
Judge was different. That first year we lost a lot of games we could have won- the opposite of Daboll already, with some shoddy late play and undisciplined play. But, he talked the talk and the team competes each week. Then we won a few games, even while still making dumb mistakes and at the end had a slight chance to make the playoffs in an epically bad year for the NFC East. We came back the next year and we're plagued by stupid mistakes, injuries and some idiotic choices by Judge during games. Add to that some weird issues between Judge and his coaches, a less than stellar choice of Garrett as offensive coordinator and a very poorly constructed roster ( his penchant for signing multiple ST's only guys ) still baffles me.
Daboll doesn't have to have a winning season but does need to show the team is heading that way by design, by construction, by philosophy and right now he clearly seems to have those things in place.
JS needs to draft well and get Daboll the ingredients for bigger, long term success.
2. you have people who think DJ sucks and want him off of the team before I click "submit" on this response.
3. you have people who understand that we need an upgrade at QB, but do not think we should just cut the guy for "anyone other than Jones". This is where I am on the topic..
I am sure that the coach and GM have had closed door discussions about finding a new QB at some point. However, you cannot just dump Jones for some other place holder until you find "the guy". It is for some of the reasons that were mentioned earlier about knowing the system and continuity with the rest of the offensive players.
If you are worried about Jones' contract, they could sign him to a contract without very much guaranteed money. Then, if they find the franchise QB one year later, then can restructure him to a contract fitting for a backup QB, or just cut him then.
Meanwhile, nobody has stepped up to name our next QB. Lamar Jackson is not coming here. People wanted Russel Wilson but he looks like shit on a Denver offense with better weapons than what we have.
This is not easy
Cossell disciple. That's a good one. The scouting tree I guess.
Giants have never had a HC make it to year 3 who did not make the playoffs in his first two since Perkins. It's not just Mara. It the fans, media and even the players can turn quick. That is also why you need to win quickly.
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In comment 15849035 Blue Dream said:
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Than the last two showed in 2 years. He will get a year 3
Go back to the end of Judge's first season. Nobody thought he would be fired after year two...
McAdoo made the playoffs in year 1. Didn't make it thru year two.....
Current GM and HC would both have to suck in a major way through Y2 to not make it to Y3. Compare them to their respective predecessors.
And that's the point of the OP. How do the Giants suck in a major way this year and next? They trade their best player. The point is Barkley gives them a chance to win. That gives the front office time to build the rest of the team. And that is the value that Barkley brings.
And another thread goes down the drain with an argument over Jones....good job guys.
Jones is on pace for 2300 passing yards and less than 1 TD pass per game. Oddly enough...that's about his average the last 3 years (actually worse in yards...but not by much). Tyrod Taylor can put up those numbers...a lot of bad QBs can.
Wasting 3 more years on Jones is straight out of the Dave Gettleman playbook.
LMAO. Look at the shambles the WR group is in.
WHO IS HE SUPPOSED TO THROW THE BALL TO?
Toney-hurt
Robinson-hurt
Golladay-hurt and also mailing it in
Shepard-out for the year
James-his favorite receiver
Sills-terrible
Slayton-not in good graces with the staff, inconsistent, but has shown flashes in the past.
News Flash: Absent a devastating injury clouding the picture, that bird, if it was ever here, has flown the coop.
I expect the DJ decision to be difficult because of dollars involved and impossibility of evaluating him as passer.
News Flash: Absent a devastating injury clouding the picture, that bird, if it was ever here, has flown the coop.
I expect the DJ decision to be difficult because of dollars involved and impossibility of evaluating him as passer.
It may be impossible for YOU to evaluate him as a passer, but not BD and JS. And I believe they are telling you what they think of him as a passer by scheming around his inability to pass with consistency.
I wish we would stop with the trading Barkley nonsense regardless. He is worth more to the team than the 4th or 5th round pick he is likely to bring in return. He'll try the free agent market next year and Schoen will have to decide what he's worth. Odds are someone overpays, which means he'll be gone.
Jones, clearly has a raw deal here but has a limited ceiling regardless and its time for a new strategy at QB. If he wants to sign a short deal to try and beat out a rookie, so be it but I don't know why he would.
I wish we would stop with the trading Barkley nonsense regardless. He is worth more to the team than the 4th or 5th round pick he is likely to bring in return. He'll try the free agent market next year and Schoen will have to decide what he's worth. Odds are someone overpays, which means he'll be gone.
Of course they get next year. We are talking about getting to year 3 and 4. If next year is a shit show they could very well be gone. That's why they should keep Barkley. Don't be surprised if the extend him mid season.
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and will accept a Practice Squad+ equivalent offer from the Giants.
News Flash: Absent a devastating injury clouding the picture, that bird, if it was ever here, has flown the coop.
I expect the DJ decision to be difficult because of dollars involved and impossibility of evaluating him as passer.
It may be impossible for YOU to evaluate him as a passer, but not BD and JS. And I believe they are telling you what they think of him as a passer by scheming around his inability to pass with consistency.
His current WR's are:
Slayton
James
Sills
Three practice squad WR's who have been called up.
That is who is with the team in London right now.
They are scheming around the fact that they have zero legitimate reliable wide receivers.
Have some of you ever played team sports? When your surrounding cast is terrible, there's only so much you can do yourself. And in a game like football as a QB, he has to rely on those other players to be successful.
2. you have people who think DJ sucks and want him off of the team before I click "submit" on this response.
3. you have people who understand that we need an upgrade at QB, but do not think we should just cut the guy for "anyone other than Jones". This is where I am on the topic..
I am sure that the coach and GM have had closed door discussions about finding a new QB at some point. However, you cannot just dump Jones for some other place holder until you find "the guy". It is for some of the reasons that were mentioned earlier about knowing the system and continuity with the rest of the offensive players.
If you are worried about Jones' contract, they could sign him to a contract without very much guaranteed money. Then, if they find the franchise QB one year later, then can restructure him to a contract fitting for a backup QB, or just cut him then.
Meanwhile, nobody has stepped up to name our next QB. Lamar Jackson is not coming here. People wanted Russel Wilson but he looks like shit on a Denver offense with better weapons than what we have.
This is not easy
There's a 4th which I'm in that Sy and many other are in. We;re fine to wait for the season to end and then make a decision. Irrelevant what we think at this moment.
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No one said they have to be competitive this year. In fact, I believe Mara said the opposite. I'd argue that they've shown enough competence already not to worry about their jobs for at least next year. The team looks prepared and the game plans are creative.
I wish we would stop with the trading Barkley nonsense regardless. He is worth more to the team than the 4th or 5th round pick he is likely to bring in return. He'll try the free agent market next year and Schoen will have to decide what he's worth. Odds are someone overpays, which means he'll be gone.
Of course they get next year. We are talking about getting to year 3 and 4. If next year is a shit show they could very well be gone. That's why they should keep Barkley. Don't be surprised if the extend him mid season.
I'd be surprised if they extend him, or he signs if they offer him one. He is creating leverage for himself with his play so far. He knows someone is liable to overpay, and probably not the Giants. He's not going to sign onto the cheaper option.
Go back and look at the way fans were fellating Joe Judge through his entire first year and second offseason.
I agree that Daboll feels like a significantly better coach, and there is a ton to be excited about with him and his staff, but it's still early.
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In comment 15849142 bwitz said:
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In comment 15849138 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 15849131 giantstock said:
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What the Pro Scout Sy said after the Dallas game:
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
By all means listen to sy. He's knowledgeable. Doesn't mean he's the only opinion or the only person qualified to offer a take on Daniel Jones.
There are other pro scouts in the world who have opinions on Jones. It's not as if many pro scouts liked him in the first place. Many didn't.
And that’s what Mr. giantstock fails to realize.
You're one of the posters I'm talking about. You made an initial snide comment on that other thread to my post that Jones decision has not yet been decided. I replied back in similar manner. Then you became insulting. I didn't start the insulting. YOU DID.
That's the style of you Jones haters. Yet all I'm doing is leaning toward what SY is saying and yet posters like you after 1 back and forth post are heavily prone to insult.
So I repond in kind.
He said to put the game in the "positive pile"...not sign him to an extension. Good grief. We beat the worst team in the NFL and Jones threw for 70 yards and no TDs. He ran well and didn't lose the game...that's the bar for DJ now.
He also had a QBR of 92, which should tell you something about those yards and how he played. But yes, just rely on raw stats with no context. Solid
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In comment 15849472 mikeinbloomfield said:
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No one said they have to be competitive this year. In fact, I believe Mara said the opposite. I'd argue that they've shown enough competence already not to worry about their jobs for at least next year. The team looks prepared and the game plans are creative.
I wish we would stop with the trading Barkley nonsense regardless. He is worth more to the team than the 4th or 5th round pick he is likely to bring in return. He'll try the free agent market next year and Schoen will have to decide what he's worth. Odds are someone overpays, which means he'll be gone.
Of course they get next year. We are talking about getting to year 3 and 4. If next year is a shit show they could very well be gone. That's why they should keep Barkley. Don't be surprised if the extend him mid season.
I'd be surprised if they extend him, or he signs if they offer him one. He is creating leverage for himself with his play so far. He knows someone is liable to overpay, and probably not the Giants. He's not going to sign onto the cheaper option.
The giants have the leverage of tagging him twice.
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In comment 15849160 giantstock said:
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In comment 15849142 bwitz said:
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In comment 15849138 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
In comment 15849131 giantstock said:
Quote:
What the Pro Scout Sy said after the Dallas game:
I know the complainers want to ignore it or pretend like they know more than SY. But Sy has said "HE Can Do it."
He's not saying DJone sis a lock. But he isn't closing the door. Many on here have buried their heads in the sand and closed the door. Which is just stupid to do:
If I am misquoting SY I apologize - but he is not saying he is a lock. Just that he has a chance still. If that is what he is saying which I believe he is - then I agree with the pro scout. If he says dump him he'll probably give reasons and I will probably be swayed - DUMP HIM.
I just think many posters on here have to get the hell off their high horses and stop pretending like they are pro scouts.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/09/28/game-review-dallas-cowboys-23-new-york-giants-16/
"Jones also added 79 yards on just 9 carries (8.8 per). He was under duress the entire night against a formidable DAL pass rush and behind a leaky offensive line, especially the right side. It can be very hard to accurately evaluate a performance like this one. Listen to any quarterback talk about Jones and they will tell you it is almost impossible to play a normal version of the position in that kind of environment. If anything, I actually put this game in the “positive pile” when thinking about where his status will reside in January. Jones made a few tough throws, he had receivers drop multiple balls, and the DAL secondary was on point. Jones’ scrambling was 90% of the Giants offensive success. His accuracy was there, the juice on the ball was there, and his decision-making was there. Unfortunately, he is throwing to JV receivers behind a freshman-team offensive line."
By all means listen to sy. He's knowledgeable. Doesn't mean he's the only opinion or the only person qualified to offer a take on Daniel Jones.
There are other pro scouts in the world who have opinions on Jones. It's not as if many pro scouts liked him in the first place. Many didn't.
And that’s what Mr. giantstock fails to realize.
You're one of the posters I'm talking about. You made an initial snide comment on that other thread to my post that Jones decision has not yet been decided. I replied back in similar manner. Then you became insulting. I didn't start the insulting. YOU DID.
That's the style of you Jones haters. Yet all I'm doing is leaning toward what SY is saying and yet posters like you after 1 back and forth post are heavily prone to insult.
So I repond in kind.
He said to put the game in the "positive pile"...not sign him to an extension. Good grief. We beat the worst team in the NFL and Jones threw for 70 yards and no TDs. He ran well and didn't lose the game...that's the bar for DJ now.
He also had a QBR of 92, which should tell you something about those yards and how he played. But yes, just rely on raw stats with no context. Solid
QBR is not the be all and end all. If the best offense that he can do well in is barely mustering 20 points that is not a recipe for consistent success in the NFL. A Geno Smith offense put up 48.
One of the prevailing ones (besides JONEZ SUX) is the Giants should be selling all their assets and not trying to add anyone who can help the team win.
In reality, the Giants are looking at guys like Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham and Landon Collins for a reason. To your point KJBBQ, they are trying to build something and keep positive momentum going, rather than bottoming out again.
I want Jones off the team yesterday, not because he’s the worst QB in the world - he isn’t by a long shot - but because there’s this “never to be dimmed” hope that he is a franchise QB despite years of evidence that he isn’t. That hope, which I believe Mara holds onto, makes giving him a long term contract a possibility. And that would awful for the franchise.
I want him off the team. Risk mitigation.
It did nothing to build anything. There is no residual effect to "try 100% for winning" if you don't have the foundation. They were awarded no credit for trying hard. There was no culture here except losing and a clown head coach who ran out of ideasand an owner that had to be convinced to fire him. The roster has since been purged, again, so it was all for a blank slate.
We can't keep saying that that stuff matters more than putting enough talent on the field and matching that with the right coach. There is no running back in the NFL that can't be replaced. Simply none. I will enjoy him while he is here. The Giants are not 3-1 without his contribution and also we said the same thing about how tiki barber was so great while he was running for 2000 total yards and then the Giants won a super bowl without him.
Good post. Required reading for many on this thread…
One of the prevailing ones (besides JONEZ SUX) is the Giants should be selling all their assets and not trying to add anyone who can help the team win.
In reality, the Giants are looking at guys like Antonio Brown, Odell Beckham and Landon Collins for a reason. To your point KJBBQ, they are trying to build something and keep positive momentum going, rather than bottoming out again.
Exactly. Haven't been 3-1 through the 1st Q mark of the season in 11 years. New GM, new HC and staff are going to try to do all they can to put a winning product on the field despite the obstacles that constrain them with the salary cap. Daboll is doing a great job given the circumstances. Momentum and winning are important, especially to a group that has been so bad for so long, and guys on the team who have been apart of that who are trying to be apart of changing the trajectory of the franchise.
Janet Jackson league?
You're right, let's forget about recency and build our team according to the blueprints that worked 40+ years ago before the salary cap.
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QBR is not the be all and end all. If the best offense that he can do well in is barely mustering 20 points that is not a recipe for consistent success in the NFL. A Geno Smith offense put up 48.
But it's quoted when he is not doing well. I've seen for example BW use it. Lots of silence when he uses it to slam Jones but now it can't be used when he does something well?
Yep and what Geno Smith is doing is amazing. And for every Geno there is a Russell Wilson, right?
So yeah if Jones is a waste dump his ass after this year. But if signs show he can be the current version of the guy you are talking up- Geno Smith - who certainly no one could have known he'd be like this-
then why not?
The 80s are callin’.