Paul Schwartz
@NYPost_Schwartz
·
1m
Brian Daboll said Kadarius Toney tweeted his other hamstring - the healthy one - during practice on Thursday. That is why the team left him home and he will miss another game.
Looking like the only good thing about last years 1st round pick was the fact we got Neal and Thibs out of this years draft. This team is going to have to draft 3-4 WRs next year.
faking it. The issue is his style of play, combined with his commitment to proper training. His style of start, stop, a lot of sudden movements, that put a lot of strain on his legs.
He focuses more on his musical career in the off-season, so his legs aren't ready for the rigors of playing WR in the pros. I really don't think this is a dodge. I think what the coaches say about him practicing hard, paying attention in class is true.
BUT, until he trains the right way to minimize these soft tissue injuries, he will be useful. They won't give up on him, because there is a lot of talent there. Untapped though it may be.
May 2021
- Issues with his shoes at mini camp, foot/calf injury
June 2021
- Doesn't show up at OTAs despite signing injury waiver
July 2021
- COVID
Aug 2021
- Missed 2+ weeks of training camp with "aggravated" injury
Sept 2021
- "Limited" in practice during Week 1, plays 5 snaps in opening game. Minimal contributions in first three games
Oct 2021:
-6 catches vs. New Orleans
-Breakout game vs. Dallas before being ejected. Also injured his ankle in that game, which he aggravated the following week.
-Missed Week 7, returned Week 8 but injured his thumb after catching 4 passes
Nov 2021:
-Limited in practice, one catch in Week 9
-7 catches Week 11
-Inactive Week 12 (oblique/quad)
Dec 2021:
-Inactive week 13 (oblique)
-Inactive week 14 (oblique)
-COVID (again)
-Inactive week 15
-After 4 catches in Week 16, misses practice all week 17 with shoulder injury
Jan 2022
-Inactive week 17 (shoulder)
-Inactive week 18
April 2022 -Skips first week of OTAs (attends house party)
May 2022
-Offseason knee surgery reported
July 2022
-PUP list (Knee)
Aug 2022
-Injured in practice, inactive for preseason opener
-Misses virtually all of training camp with knee/leg injuries
Sept 2022
-Limited action in 1st two games
-Inactive weeks 3-4
-Both hamstrings hurt, inactive week 5
Let this guy be on the field for one month without issue before talking about him again. If you can't play, it really doesn't matter if you're "electric" or whatever the hell you want to call him.
What if your source for the text I put in bold above?
faking it. The issue is his style of play, combined with his commitment to proper training. His style of start, stop, a lot of sudden movements, that put a lot of strain on his legs.
How can his style of play be the cause of his injuries at this point when he never actually plays? Maybe it's his style of not playing that causes the injuries?
RE: We can reduce Toney down to one of the following equations
Take out Neal, put in Thibodeaux. If they only had one pick this past draft (and had taken Parsons the year before, as this exercise suggests), they'd have taken Neal. They only took Thibs ahead of Neal because they had two OTs on the board that they liked, but only one pass rusher.
It's Toney + Thibodeaux vs. Parsons.
Thibs is going to have to be really special to win that side by himself.
That one of the people touting the few good picks Dave made this week, is now accusing one of his picks of faking injuries. Do we take back the thank you letters?
RE: RE: We can reduce Toney down to one of the following equations
Take out Neal, put in Thibodeaux. If they only had one pick this past draft (and had taken Parsons the year before, as this exercise suggests), they'd have taken Neal. They only took Thibs ahead of Neal because they had two OTs on the board that they liked, but only one pass rusher.
It's Toney + Thibodeaux vs. Parsons.
Thibs is going to have to be really special to win that side by himself.
The Giants would have never gotten Parsons. The Cowboys wanted him all along and they knew we were not taking him. If we ever had any desire to take Parson the Cowboys never do that trade with the Eagles and take Parsons at their own pick. The fact that we had telegraphed Parson was off our board was why the Cowboys felt comfortable making that deal with Philly.
Thus, now we would have Davonta Smith and either Thibs or Neal depending on who we wanted more. Instead of Toeny, Thibs, and Neal.
your obsession with what i say on this board is weird. let it go.
Toney doesn't want to be a football player. I'm not sure what that has to do with Gettleman, or why you brought it up. Gettleman picked him, it is his wasted pick. There were reports that he didn't even want to trade down and wanted Parsons, and didn't want Toney.
Regardless of whether that is true, he's the GM and the pick is his.
It’s always “let’s see how it plays out, how can you criticize, nobody knows what goes on inside the facility” blah blah blah.
But because it’s a player you don’t like you’re automatically 100% right and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. You expose your hypocrisy almost daily.
Accusing a player of faking an injury with zero access to the medical records, knowledge of what’s going on behind the scenes, etc is such a stupid take I don’t even know where to begin.
Like you’ve said a million times, let it play out.
According to the asshats, DG/JJ were concerned about Micah Parsons' character issues and were hoping another team would draft him before the Giants picked. In hindsight, it looks like he was worth the risk.
May 2021
- Issues with his shoes at mini camp, foot/calf injury
June 2021
- Doesn't show up at OTAs despite signing injury waiver
July 2021
- COVID
Aug 2021
- Missed 2+ weeks of training camp with "aggravated" injury
Sept 2021
- "Limited" in practice during Week 1, plays 5 snaps in opening game. Minimal contributions in first three games
Oct 2021:
-6 catches vs. New Orleans
-Breakout game vs. Dallas before being ejected. Also injured his ankle in that game, which he aggravated the following week.
-Missed Week 7, returned Week 8 but injured his thumb after catching 4 passes
Nov 2021:
-Limited in practice, one catch in Week 9
-7 catches Week 11
-Inactive Week 12 (oblique/quad)
Dec 2021:
-Inactive week 13 (oblique)
-Inactive week 14 (oblique)
-COVID (again)
-Inactive week 15
-After 4 catches in Week 16, misses practice all week 17 with shoulder injury
Jan 2022
-Inactive week 17 (shoulder)
-Inactive week 18
April 2022
-Skips first week of OTAs (attends house party)
May 2022
-Offseason knee surgery reported
July 2022
-PUP list (Knee)
Aug 2022
-Injured in practice, inactive for preseason opener
-Misses virtually all of training camp with knee/leg injuries
Sept 2022
-Limited action in 1st two games
-Inactive weeks 3-4
-Both hamstrings hurt, inactive week 5
Let this guy be on the field for one month without issue before talking about him again. If you can't play, it really doesn't matter if you're "electric" or whatever the hell you want to call him.
What if your source for the text I put in bold above?
Wes Steinberg tweeted Toney skipped OTA's to attend a house party.
May 2021
- Issues with his shoes at mini camp, foot/calf injury
June 2021
- Doesn't show up at OTAs despite signing injury waiver
July 2021
- COVID
Aug 2021
- Missed 2+ weeks of training camp with "aggravated" injury
Sept 2021
- "Limited" in practice during Week 1, plays 5 snaps in opening game. Minimal contributions in first three games
Oct 2021:
-6 catches vs. New Orleans
-Breakout game vs. Dallas before being ejected. Also injured his ankle in that game, which he aggravated the following week.
-Missed Week 7, returned Week 8 but injured his thumb after catching 4 passes
Nov 2021:
-Limited in practice, one catch in Week 9
-7 catches Week 11
-Inactive Week 12 (oblique/quad)
Dec 2021:
-Inactive week 13 (oblique)
-Inactive week 14 (oblique)
-COVID (again)
-Inactive week 15
-After 4 catches in Week 16, misses practice all week 17 with shoulder injury
Jan 2022
-Inactive week 17 (shoulder)
-Inactive week 18
April 2022
-Skips first week of OTAs (attends house party)
May 2022
-Offseason knee surgery reported
July 2022
-PUP list (Knee)
Aug 2022
-Injured in practice, inactive for preseason opener
-Misses virtually all of training camp with knee/leg injuries
Sept 2022
-Limited action in 1st two games
-Inactive weeks 3-4
-Both hamstrings hurt, inactive week 5
Let this guy be on the field for one month without issue before talking about him again. If you can't play, it really doesn't matter if you're "electric" or whatever the hell you want to call him.
What if your source for the text I put in bold above?
Wes Steinberg tweeted Toney skipped OTA's to attend a house party.
He never sounds disappointed he can't play and doesn't seem to care. It is always trading jabs with reporters. He will never be anything. Wasted pick.
The smoke's been there the whole time. The Giants medical and training staff felt like Toney could play vs. the Jets and he said he couldn't. They felt he could play last year and he said he couldn't. They supplied him the proper footwear (millions of options) and he said he couldn't. In everyone's years of following NFL football does anyone ever remember a guy missing extended time due to not having the proper cleats?
What do you think the Giants med/training staff thinks of the notion Toney is faking it?
This is a big problem - he's stealing money. Anyone of us could do the same at our jobs and eventually, we'd get fired. Toney will too. Don't think Mara isn't aware of this.
He never sounds disappointed he can't play and doesn't seem to care. It is always trading jabs with reporters. He will never be anything. Wasted pick.
The smoke's been there the whole time. The Giants medical and training staff felt like Toney could play vs. the Jets and he said he couldn't. They felt he could play last year and he said he couldn't. They supplied him the proper footwear (millions of options) and he said he couldn't. In everyone's years of following NFL football does anyone ever remember a guy missing extended time due to not having the proper cleats?
What do you think the Giants med/training staff thinks of the notion Toney is faking it?
This is a big problem - he's stealing money. Anyone of us could do the same at our jobs and eventually, we'd get fired. Toney will too. Don't think Mara isn't aware of this.
Do we ignore that he was out there running some drills in socks?
And then we are going to get on him for being even-keeling in interviews?
Sheesh... imagine if, idk, a HOF QB on the Giants was always positive and even-keeled during pressers and interviews..even after bad games where he made mistakes.. sheesh that would be crazy!
He had a chronic hamstring issue. It’s not new but he needs to just stop and rest for a long time. The poster above that mentioned Jose Reyes is exactly right. Another guy that goes through this constantly in soccer “star” Reyna (Claudio’s son). Guy is always hurt. Chronic hamstring issues.
He’d be helping us out if he just retired and pursued his music career though.
But with proper treatment and adjustments...
Jose Reyes became one of the best players in baseball and was extremely durable for half a decade once solved...
Soo... I'd rather they just find the right guys to deal with the problem and help him contribute on the field, wouldn't you?
He never sounds disappointed he can't play and doesn't seem to care. It is always trading jabs with reporters. He will never be anything. Wasted pick.
The smoke's been there the whole time. The Giants medical and training staff felt like Toney could play vs. the Jets and he said he couldn't. They felt he could play last year and he said he couldn't. They supplied him the proper footwear (millions of options) and he said he couldn't. In everyone's years of following NFL football does anyone ever remember a guy missing extended time due to not having the proper cleats?
What do you think the Giants med/training staff thinks of the notion Toney is faking it?
This is a big problem - he's stealing money. Anyone of us could do the same at our jobs and eventually, we'd get fired. Toney will too. Don't think Mara isn't aware of this.
Define “extended time”
Missing even a single practice due to footwear would be more extended than I'd feel comfortable excusing.
He had a chronic hamstring issue. It’s not new but he needs to just stop and rest for a long time. The poster above that mentioned Jose Reyes is exactly right. Another guy that goes through this constantly in soccer “star” Reyna (Claudio’s son). Guy is always hurt. Chronic hamstring issues.
He’d be helping us out if he just retired and pursued his music career though.
But with proper treatment and adjustments...
Jose Reyes became one of the best players in baseball and was extremely durable for half a decade once solved...
Soo... I'd rather they just find the right guys to deal with the problem and help him contribute on the field, wouldn't you?
I have a sneaking suspicion that if you found experts who could somehow solve the mystery of Toney's hamstrings, you'd suddenly find out that he also has a chronic injury in some other unrelated body part. Just a hunch.
Jose Reyes became one of the best players in baseball and was extremely durable for half a decade once solved...
Soo... I'd rather they just find the right guys to deal with the problem and help him contribute on the field, wouldn't you?
That is fair, except that Reyes struggled with a single injury, his hamstrings. Toney, on the other hand, has been out for a foot, an ankle, a shoulder, an oblique, a knee, and now, hamstrings. So it isn't the case where he needs someone to solve one issue.
Big ego,.smart mouth,media individualists are not part of the new regime. That's why I don't think Odell gets back here. Toney is a bum, people catered to his BS trying to get him into the system but The new Giant system is made up of the island of Lost Toys throwaways and veterans who need to prove themselves. These guys may not have talent but they sure try hard. You know KT does not train. He didn't tear his hamstring he just strained it and it's been like that for a year. Nobody recovers that slow unless they are not taking their physical therapy and training seriously. I suspect coaching staff has thrown in the towel this guy and just trying to keep him healthy enough so some sucker team will pick him up
Jose Reyes became one of the best players in baseball and was extremely durable for half a decade once solved...
Soo... I'd rather they just find the right guys to deal with the problem and help him contribute on the field, wouldn't you?
That is fair, except that Reyes struggled with a single injury, his hamstrings. Toney, on the other hand, has been out for a foot, an ankle, a shoulder, an oblique, a knee, and now, hamstrings. So it isn't the case where he needs someone to solve one issue.
Oh, I forgot one, he was out for a calf too.
I don't think Toney is faking his injuries, but I do wonder if he's willing to play with pain. Every player in the NFL is "hurt" right now, but only a few are "injured".
Intentional or not, he won't be playing for the Giants this year and won't be on the team next year. I fall in the camp of intentional, but it doesn't really matter. And I wouldn't blame this pick on DG - it has JJ written all over it.
I am not upset. Perhaps knowing the role that JJ played in the selection (and I have no proof it was his pick), contributed to his early dismissal. And if there was a great pick last year (like Parsons), we might win an extra game or two and we are stuck with JJ.
We can move on from him next year. Have to hope he can contribute this year. I doubt he will.
I don't think Toney is faking his injuries, but I do wonder if he's willing to play with pain. Every player in the NFL is "hurt" right now, but only a few are "injured".
This is the point that I think Toney's few remaining defenders seem to miss. Toney is very unlikely to be faking his injuries in the most accurate sense of the word. His injuries themselves cannot be faked to such an extent that they would fool an NFL team doctor or training staff.
However, if you think NFL teams perform a diagnostic exam on every player every day, you're kidding yourself. The first, and most important, step in the process for a player to end up on the injured list is self-diagnosis. A player complains to trainers/doctors about some sort of pain or discomfort, it gets examined, and then diagnosis/prognosis/treatment follows. In this way, it's not possible for a player to trick the medical staff into diagnosing an injury that does not exist.
Here's the thing - on any given day, any active player almost definitely has enough bumps and bruises and scrapes, strains, and (minor) sprains that they are in some discomfort or outright pain. Not all of them will even alert the training staff for a lot of that discomfort. But if they did, I feel confident in saying that just about all of them would end up on the injury report for something. They avoid that by making their own decision to play through discomfort because they want to play, and they don't want some doctor or other medical professional telling them that they can't.
But some players will go to the med staff over every bump and bruise. Some do it because they genuinely don't realize how much baseline physical discomfort comes with the job description. Some do it to err on the side of caution (I would take no issue if Barkley was in constant conversation with members of the NYG medical team every single day last season because of his recovery from a serious injury). Some do it because they genuinely don't want to play through the discomfort at all.
That last group, they're not faking in the sense that their injuries are lies, per se. But their injuries might very well be of the sort severity that most other players would play through. And if that's the case, they're either doing it because they don't care enough about playing to make it worthwhile to play through discomfort, or just because they're wusses who have low pain tolerance. I find it really hard to believe that there are many NFL players who fall into that category, so I'm left categorizing just about all of that last group into the header of "football just isn't important enough to some players to get them to play through the same discomfort that their teammates do."
He never sounds disappointed he can't play and doesn't seem to care. It is always trading jabs with reporters. He will never be anything. Wasted pick.
The smoke's been there the whole time. The Giants medical and training staff felt like Toney could play vs. the Jets and he said he couldn't. They felt he could play last year and he said he couldn't. They supplied him the proper footwear (millions of options) and he said he couldn't. In everyone's years of following NFL football does anyone ever remember a guy missing extended time due to not having the proper cleats?
What do you think the Giants med/training staff thinks of the notion Toney is faking it?
This is a big problem - he's stealing money. Anyone of us could do the same at our jobs and eventually, we'd get fired. Toney will too. Don't think Mara isn't aware of this.
I own my business, I have spent the last 30 years managing people. I smelled the Toney bullshit like a fart in a car immediately. I predicted this almost to a T. Not looking for any kind props and this is in no way an I told you so because the evidence was so plain I am staggered that everyone didn't see it. You can hear it in voice when he talks about missing time.
HE DOESN'T CARE
He will end up with all the guaranteed money from that contract and not much else.
I don't think Toney is faking his injuries, but I do wonder if he's willing to play with pain. Every player in the NFL is "hurt" right now, but only a few are "injured".
This is the point that I think Toney's few remaining defenders seem to miss. Toney is very unlikely to be faking his injuries in the most accurate sense of the word. His injuries themselves cannot be faked to such an extent that they would fool an NFL team doctor or training staff.
However, if you think NFL teams perform a diagnostic exam on every player every day, you're kidding yourself. The first, and most important, step in the process for a player to end up on the injured list is self-diagnosis. A player complains to trainers/doctors about some sort of pain or discomfort, it gets examined, and then diagnosis/prognosis/treatment follows. In this way, it's not possible for a player to trick the medical staff into diagnosing an injury that does not exist.
Here's the thing - on any given day, any active player almost definitely has enough bumps and bruises and scrapes, strains, and (minor) sprains that they are in some discomfort or outright pain. Not all of them will even alert the training staff for a lot of that discomfort. But if they did, I feel confident in saying that just about all of them would end up on the injury report for something. They avoid that by making their own decision to play through discomfort because they want to play, and they don't want some doctor or other medical professional telling them that they can't.
But some players will go to the med staff over every bump and bruise. Some do it because they genuinely don't realize how much baseline physical discomfort comes with the job description. Some do it to err on the side of caution (I would take no issue if Barkley was in constant conversation with members of the NYG medical team every single day last season because of his recovery from a serious injury). Some do it because they genuinely don't want to play through the discomfort at all.
That last group, they're not faking in the sense that their injuries are lies, per se. But their injuries might very well be of the sort severity that most other players would play through. And if that's the case, they're either doing it because they don't care enough about playing to make it worthwhile to play through discomfort, or just because they're wusses who have low pain tolerance. I find it really hard to believe that there are many NFL players who fall into that category, so I'm left categorizing just about all of that last group into the header of "football just isn't important enough to some players to get them to play through the same discomfort that their teammates do."
I agree with the nuance that you present. He probably isn't faking. A better word might be milking.
I don’t think he is faking an injury any more than
you could easily make the case football isn't that important to him, especially now with the guaranteed money owed. Giants are protecting him for now, but it's not going to last forever. Watch their actions, don't take words as gospel.
Pffft. Whatever. Hamstrings, something, something, Jose Reyes.
Lol.
Some people here just refuse to see things for what they actually are. It must be exhausting doing the mental gymnastics to continue with excuse after excuse.
Yep I guess it's impossible that he is actually hurt
If this coaching staff really is covering for him like this its pretty pathetic. As I said in another thread, I'm spoiled, I expect every coach to act like Tom Coughlin and thats not really fair...not every coach is a HOFer
Maybe these guys have their reasons for lying, but it's very weird to me.
know he's faking and refusing, then so too does the brass, and next comes cause for voiding the guarantees.
What's his plan? being useless for 2 or 3 more years and never play another down? Getting caught in a lie puts his money at risk. Is he that afraid of playing football?
He may be putting in less than full effort to get healthy, or less than full effort to play football, but sans real evidence, I doubt he's faking it. Such notions are the result of non-stop Toney hate on the internet. Maybe his heart isn't in football, but it is still a long stretch from that to alleging he'll do anything to not play football.
No clue if he's milking or faking his injury. None. But listen to what a lot of people supposedly in the know-coaches aside to the media-think about him...not much.
know he's faking and refusing, then so too does the brass, and next comes cause for voiding the guarantees.
What's his plan? being useless for 2 or 3 more years and never play another down? Getting caught in a lie puts his money at risk. Is he that afraid of playing football?
He may be putting in less than full effort to get healthy, or less than full effort to play football, but sans real evidence, I doubt he's faking it. Such notions are the result of non-stop Toney hate on the internet. Maybe his heart isn't in football, but it is still a long stretch from that to alleging he'll do anything to not play football.
I’m don’t think he’s faking it. I just think his desire to play is extremely lacking and, he hasn’t proven otherwise.
I’m not sure what the $$ situation is, I would cut him though. Sometimes we get hung up on what the particular thing is. With Toney, its something and always will be something.
No, its not just injuries with him. Multiple posters here have cued you in, its wild to me some people still think this is a case of someone with bad injury luck and nothing else going on.
Saying he’s a piece of shit or asshole is definitely over the top. Questioning his commitment and desire to play football are entirely accurate.
Remember, this regime challenged Toney early on. Word gets around on guys especially when scouting. Remember what Sy said.
He’s a non factor and will be gone soon enough. Why wait I don’t know.
People saying he does care about football seems to be anti rap
He is not the ONLY player to have other interest I wager most parents on this thread have their kids exposed to multiple things … Kayvon is ONLY using football to fuel his foundation for off field activities …. But no complaints to this magnitude why? He has not done anything but talk and not backing it up as of yet.
Next why didn’t/don’t anyone of you arm chair athletes play for the Giants I mean it is so easy from all the shit talking …. A lot of you guys are hilarious
I think we would hear some leaks if there were problems in the locker room with him. Hard to see the players backing a malingering. Questioning is off season work is fair play.
Coaches lying for him? Something tells me Saban and BB did not teach BD that is the way you do it. Good luck earning the players trust/respect doing that long term.
It's really unfortunate. With a healthy Toney and Wandale (playing to expectations) this O might be pretty good with our run game.
Wish itwas something like a cracked or bruised ribs. Something like that I think you can question. Hamstrings? IDK, especially at his position and how he plays.
Complaining about the guy doesn't help. These guys put their bodies on the line to entertain us. He didn't get as good as he is without the unbelievable strong desire to play. He will play as soon as he is ready and the doctors clear him. We have to pull for this guy. If (IF) he can get past this, he is trouble for any defense. Cookie Crumbs - ( New Window )
Of all the DG f...ups, this one may ultimately prove to be the worst. Who in their right mind would trade down in Rd 1 to draft a gadget player with a questionable character while presiding over a team with a roster in need of a complete rebuild. And lest we forget, Micah Parsons was available at the Giants normal draft position that year. Just incredulous.
Like I said a few weeks ago, the second coming of Tim Carter. The only difference was Carter wanted to play. It’s pretty obvious this guy doesn’t. Adios.
He focuses more on his musical career in the off-season, so his legs aren't ready for the rigors of playing WR in the pros. I really don't think this is a dodge. I think what the coaches say about him practicing hard, paying attention in class is true.
BUT, until he trains the right way to minimize these soft tissue injuries, he will be useful. They won't give up on him, because there is a lot of talent there. Untapped though it may be.
nope
Equation 1
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) = (Micah Parsons)
Equation 2
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) > (Micah Parsons)
Equation 3
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) < (Micah Parsons)
Right now, looks like #3.
- Issues with his shoes at mini camp, foot/calf injury
June 2021
- Doesn't show up at OTAs despite signing injury waiver
July 2021
- COVID
Aug 2021
- Missed 2+ weeks of training camp with "aggravated" injury
Sept 2021
- "Limited" in practice during Week 1, plays 5 snaps in opening game. Minimal contributions in first three games
Oct 2021:
-6 catches vs. New Orleans
-Breakout game vs. Dallas before being ejected. Also injured his ankle in that game, which he aggravated the following week.
-Missed Week 7, returned Week 8 but injured his thumb after catching 4 passes
Nov 2021:
-Limited in practice, one catch in Week 9
-7 catches Week 11
-Inactive Week 12 (oblique/quad)
Dec 2021:
-Inactive week 13 (oblique)
-Inactive week 14 (oblique)
-COVID (again)
-Inactive week 15
-After 4 catches in Week 16, misses practice all week 17 with shoulder injury
Jan 2022
-Inactive week 17 (shoulder)
-Inactive week 18
April 2022
-Skips first week of OTAs (attends house party)
May 2022
-Offseason knee surgery reported
July 2022
-PUP list (Knee)
Aug 2022
-Injured in practice, inactive for preseason opener
-Misses virtually all of training camp with knee/leg injuries
Sept 2022
-Limited action in 1st two games
-Inactive weeks 3-4
-Both hamstrings hurt, inactive week 5
Let this guy be on the field for one month without issue before talking about him again. If you can't play, it really doesn't matter if you're "electric" or whatever the hell you want to call him.
What if your source for the text I put in bold above?
How can his style of play be the cause of his injuries at this point when he never actually plays? Maybe it's his style of not playing that causes the injuries?
Equation 1
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) = (Micah Parsons)
Equation 2
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) > (Micah Parsons)
Equation 3
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) < (Micah Parsons)
Right now, looks like #3.
Take out Neal, put in Thibodeaux. If they only had one pick this past draft (and had taken Parsons the year before, as this exercise suggests), they'd have taken Neal. They only took Thibs ahead of Neal because they had two OTs on the board that they liked, but only one pass rusher.
It's Toney + Thibodeaux vs. Parsons.
Thibs is going to have to be really special to win that side by himself.
Quote:
Equation 1
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) = (Micah Parsons)
Equation 2
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) > (Micah Parsons)
Equation 3
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) < (Micah Parsons)
Right now, looks like #3.
Take out Neal, put in Thibodeaux. If they only had one pick this past draft (and had taken Parsons the year before, as this exercise suggests), they'd have taken Neal. They only took Thibs ahead of Neal because they had two OTs on the board that they liked, but only one pass rusher.
It's Toney + Thibodeaux vs. Parsons.
Thibs is going to have to be really special to win that side by himself.
The Giants would have never gotten Parsons. The Cowboys wanted him all along and they knew we were not taking him. If we ever had any desire to take Parson the Cowboys never do that trade with the Eagles and take Parsons at their own pick. The fact that we had telegraphed Parson was off our board was why the Cowboys felt comfortable making that deal with Philly.
Thus, now we would have Davonta Smith and either Thibs or Neal depending on who we wanted more. Instead of Toeny, Thibs, and Neal.
Toney doesn't want to be a football player. I'm not sure what that has to do with Gettleman, or why you brought it up. Gettleman picked him, it is his wasted pick. There were reports that he didn't even want to trade down and wanted Parsons, and didn't want Toney.
Regardless of whether that is true, he's the GM and the pick is his.
Why do you have to keep bringing this up?
But because it’s a player you don’t like you’re automatically 100% right and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. You expose your hypocrisy almost daily.
Accusing a player of faking an injury with zero access to the medical records, knowledge of what’s going on behind the scenes, etc is such a stupid take I don’t even know where to begin.
Like you’ve said a million times, let it play out.
Toney is faking his injuries.
How do you know??? Have you seeing his stop and start play style? This guy having leg issues is completely believable.
Equation 1
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) = (Micah Parsons)
Equation 2
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) > (Micah Parsons)
Equation 3
(Kadarius Toney) + (Evan Neal) < (Micah Parsons)
Right now, looks like #3.
According to the asshats, DG/JJ were concerned about Micah Parsons' character issues and were hoping another team would draft him before the Giants picked. In hindsight, it looks like he was worth the risk.
Quote:
May 2021
- Issues with his shoes at mini camp, foot/calf injury
June 2021
- Doesn't show up at OTAs despite signing injury waiver
July 2021
- COVID
Aug 2021
- Missed 2+ weeks of training camp with "aggravated" injury
Sept 2021
- "Limited" in practice during Week 1, plays 5 snaps in opening game. Minimal contributions in first three games
Oct 2021:
-6 catches vs. New Orleans
-Breakout game vs. Dallas before being ejected. Also injured his ankle in that game, which he aggravated the following week.
-Missed Week 7, returned Week 8 but injured his thumb after catching 4 passes
Nov 2021:
-Limited in practice, one catch in Week 9
-7 catches Week 11
-Inactive Week 12 (oblique/quad)
Dec 2021:
-Inactive week 13 (oblique)
-Inactive week 14 (oblique)
-COVID (again)
-Inactive week 15
-After 4 catches in Week 16, misses practice all week 17 with shoulder injury
Jan 2022
-Inactive week 17 (shoulder)
-Inactive week 18
April 2022
-Skips first week of OTAs (attends house party)
May 2022
-Offseason knee surgery reported
July 2022
-PUP list (Knee)
Aug 2022
-Injured in practice, inactive for preseason opener
-Misses virtually all of training camp with knee/leg injuries
Sept 2022
-Limited action in 1st two games
-Inactive weeks 3-4
-Both hamstrings hurt, inactive week 5
Let this guy be on the field for one month without issue before talking about him again. If you can't play, it really doesn't matter if you're "electric" or whatever the hell you want to call him.
What if your source for the text I put in bold above?
Wes Steinberg tweeted Toney skipped OTA's to attend a house party.
Quote:
In comment 15849777 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
May 2021
- Issues with his shoes at mini camp, foot/calf injury
June 2021
- Doesn't show up at OTAs despite signing injury waiver
July 2021
- COVID
Aug 2021
- Missed 2+ weeks of training camp with "aggravated" injury
Sept 2021
- "Limited" in practice during Week 1, plays 5 snaps in opening game. Minimal contributions in first three games
Oct 2021:
-6 catches vs. New Orleans
-Breakout game vs. Dallas before being ejected. Also injured his ankle in that game, which he aggravated the following week.
-Missed Week 7, returned Week 8 but injured his thumb after catching 4 passes
Nov 2021:
-Limited in practice, one catch in Week 9
-7 catches Week 11
-Inactive Week 12 (oblique/quad)
Dec 2021:
-Inactive week 13 (oblique)
-Inactive week 14 (oblique)
-COVID (again)
-Inactive week 15
-After 4 catches in Week 16, misses practice all week 17 with shoulder injury
Jan 2022
-Inactive week 17 (shoulder)
-Inactive week 18
April 2022
-Skips first week of OTAs (attends house party)
May 2022
-Offseason knee surgery reported
July 2022
-PUP list (Knee)
Aug 2022
-Injured in practice, inactive for preseason opener
-Misses virtually all of training camp with knee/leg injuries
Sept 2022
-Limited action in 1st two games
-Inactive weeks 3-4
-Both hamstrings hurt, inactive week 5
Let this guy be on the field for one month without issue before talking about him again. If you can't play, it really doesn't matter if you're "electric" or whatever the hell you want to call him.
What if your source for the text I put in bold above?
Wes Steinberg tweeted Toney skipped OTA's to attend a house party.
lol I hope that really is the source.
The smoke's been there the whole time. The Giants medical and training staff felt like Toney could play vs. the Jets and he said he couldn't. They felt he could play last year and he said he couldn't. They supplied him the proper footwear (millions of options) and he said he couldn't. In everyone's years of following NFL football does anyone ever remember a guy missing extended time due to not having the proper cleats?
What do you think the Giants med/training staff thinks of the notion Toney is faking it?
This is a big problem - he's stealing money. Anyone of us could do the same at our jobs and eventually, we'd get fired. Toney will too. Don't think Mara isn't aware of this.
Quote:
He never sounds disappointed he can't play and doesn't seem to care. It is always trading jabs with reporters. He will never be anything. Wasted pick.
The smoke's been there the whole time. The Giants medical and training staff felt like Toney could play vs. the Jets and he said he couldn't. They felt he could play last year and he said he couldn't. They supplied him the proper footwear (millions of options) and he said he couldn't. In everyone's years of following NFL football does anyone ever remember a guy missing extended time due to not having the proper cleats?
What do you think the Giants med/training staff thinks of the notion Toney is faking it?
This is a big problem - he's stealing money. Anyone of us could do the same at our jobs and eventually, we'd get fired. Toney will too. Don't think Mara isn't aware of this.
Define “extended time”
"extended time"?
Do we ignore that he was out there running some drills in socks?
And then we are going to get on him for being even-keeling in interviews?
Sheesh... imagine if, idk, a HOF QB on the Giants was always positive and even-keeled during pressers and interviews..even after bad games where he made mistakes.. sheesh that would be crazy!
He’d be helping us out if he just retired and pursued his music career though.
But with proper treatment and adjustments...
Jose Reyes became one of the best players in baseball and was extremely durable for half a decade once solved...
Soo... I'd rather they just find the right guys to deal with the problem and help him contribute on the field, wouldn't you?
Quote:
In comment 15849824 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
He never sounds disappointed he can't play and doesn't seem to care. It is always trading jabs with reporters. He will never be anything. Wasted pick.
The smoke's been there the whole time. The Giants medical and training staff felt like Toney could play vs. the Jets and he said he couldn't. They felt he could play last year and he said he couldn't. They supplied him the proper footwear (millions of options) and he said he couldn't. In everyone's years of following NFL football does anyone ever remember a guy missing extended time due to not having the proper cleats?
What do you think the Giants med/training staff thinks of the notion Toney is faking it?
This is a big problem - he's stealing money. Anyone of us could do the same at our jobs and eventually, we'd get fired. Toney will too. Don't think Mara isn't aware of this.
Define “extended time”
Missing even a single practice due to footwear would be more extended than I'd feel comfortable excusing.
Quote:
He had a chronic hamstring issue. It’s not new but he needs to just stop and rest for a long time. The poster above that mentioned Jose Reyes is exactly right. Another guy that goes through this constantly in soccer “star” Reyna (Claudio’s son). Guy is always hurt. Chronic hamstring issues.
He’d be helping us out if he just retired and pursued his music career though.
But with proper treatment and adjustments...
Jose Reyes became one of the best players in baseball and was extremely durable for half a decade once solved...
Soo... I'd rather they just find the right guys to deal with the problem and help him contribute on the field, wouldn't you?
I have a sneaking suspicion that if you found experts who could somehow solve the mystery of Toney's hamstrings, you'd suddenly find out that he also has a chronic injury in some other unrelated body part. Just a hunch.
But with proper treatment and adjustments...
Jose Reyes became one of the best players in baseball and was extremely durable for half a decade once solved...
Soo... I'd rather they just find the right guys to deal with the problem and help him contribute on the field, wouldn't you?
That is fair, except that Reyes struggled with a single injury, his hamstrings. Toney, on the other hand, has been out for a foot, an ankle, a shoulder, an oblique, a knee, and now, hamstrings. So it isn't the case where he needs someone to solve one issue.
Quote:
But with proper treatment and adjustments...
Jose Reyes became one of the best players in baseball and was extremely durable for half a decade once solved...
Soo... I'd rather they just find the right guys to deal with the problem and help him contribute on the field, wouldn't you?
That is fair, except that Reyes struggled with a single injury, his hamstrings. Toney, on the other hand, has been out for a foot, an ankle, a shoulder, an oblique, a knee, and now, hamstrings. So it isn't the case where he needs someone to solve one issue.
Oh, I forgot one, he was out for a calf too.
I don't think Toney is faking his injuries, but I do wonder if he's willing to play with pain. Every player in the NFL is "hurt" right now, but only a few are "injured".
I am not upset. Perhaps knowing the role that JJ played in the selection (and I have no proof it was his pick), contributed to his early dismissal. And if there was a great pick last year (like Parsons), we might win an extra game or two and we are stuck with JJ.
We can move on from him next year. Have to hope he can contribute this year. I doubt he will.
This is the point that I think Toney's few remaining defenders seem to miss. Toney is very unlikely to be faking his injuries in the most accurate sense of the word. His injuries themselves cannot be faked to such an extent that they would fool an NFL team doctor or training staff.
However, if you think NFL teams perform a diagnostic exam on every player every day, you're kidding yourself. The first, and most important, step in the process for a player to end up on the injured list is self-diagnosis. A player complains to trainers/doctors about some sort of pain or discomfort, it gets examined, and then diagnosis/prognosis/treatment follows. In this way, it's not possible for a player to trick the medical staff into diagnosing an injury that does not exist.
Here's the thing - on any given day, any active player almost definitely has enough bumps and bruises and scrapes, strains, and (minor) sprains that they are in some discomfort or outright pain. Not all of them will even alert the training staff for a lot of that discomfort. But if they did, I feel confident in saying that just about all of them would end up on the injury report for something. They avoid that by making their own decision to play through discomfort because they want to play, and they don't want some doctor or other medical professional telling them that they can't.
But some players will go to the med staff over every bump and bruise. Some do it because they genuinely don't realize how much baseline physical discomfort comes with the job description. Some do it to err on the side of caution (I would take no issue if Barkley was in constant conversation with members of the NYG medical team every single day last season because of his recovery from a serious injury). Some do it because they genuinely don't want to play through the discomfort at all.
That last group, they're not faking in the sense that their injuries are lies, per se. But their injuries might very well be of the sort severity that most other players would play through. And if that's the case, they're either doing it because they don't care enough about playing to make it worthwhile to play through discomfort, or just because they're wusses who have low pain tolerance. I find it really hard to believe that there are many NFL players who fall into that category, so I'm left categorizing just about all of that last group into the header of "football just isn't important enough to some players to get them to play through the same discomfort that their teammates do."
Quote:
He never sounds disappointed he can't play and doesn't seem to care. It is always trading jabs with reporters. He will never be anything. Wasted pick.
The smoke's been there the whole time. The Giants medical and training staff felt like Toney could play vs. the Jets and he said he couldn't. They felt he could play last year and he said he couldn't. They supplied him the proper footwear (millions of options) and he said he couldn't. In everyone's years of following NFL football does anyone ever remember a guy missing extended time due to not having the proper cleats?
What do you think the Giants med/training staff thinks of the notion Toney is faking it?
This is a big problem - he's stealing money. Anyone of us could do the same at our jobs and eventually, we'd get fired. Toney will too. Don't think Mara isn't aware of this.
HE DOESN'T CARE
He will end up with all the guaranteed money from that contract and not much else.
Quote:
I don't think Toney is faking his injuries, but I do wonder if he's willing to play with pain. Every player in the NFL is "hurt" right now, but only a few are "injured".
This is the point that I think Toney's few remaining defenders seem to miss. Toney is very unlikely to be faking his injuries in the most accurate sense of the word. His injuries themselves cannot be faked to such an extent that they would fool an NFL team doctor or training staff.
However, if you think NFL teams perform a diagnostic exam on every player every day, you're kidding yourself. The first, and most important, step in the process for a player to end up on the injured list is self-diagnosis. A player complains to trainers/doctors about some sort of pain or discomfort, it gets examined, and then diagnosis/prognosis/treatment follows. In this way, it's not possible for a player to trick the medical staff into diagnosing an injury that does not exist.
Here's the thing - on any given day, any active player almost definitely has enough bumps and bruises and scrapes, strains, and (minor) sprains that they are in some discomfort or outright pain. Not all of them will even alert the training staff for a lot of that discomfort. But if they did, I feel confident in saying that just about all of them would end up on the injury report for something. They avoid that by making their own decision to play through discomfort because they want to play, and they don't want some doctor or other medical professional telling them that they can't.
But some players will go to the med staff over every bump and bruise. Some do it because they genuinely don't realize how much baseline physical discomfort comes with the job description. Some do it to err on the side of caution (I would take no issue if Barkley was in constant conversation with members of the NYG medical team every single day last season because of his recovery from a serious injury). Some do it because they genuinely don't want to play through the discomfort at all.
That last group, they're not faking in the sense that their injuries are lies, per se. But their injuries might very well be of the sort severity that most other players would play through. And if that's the case, they're either doing it because they don't care enough about playing to make it worthwhile to play through discomfort, or just because they're wusses who have low pain tolerance. I find it really hard to believe that there are many NFL players who fall into that category, so I'm left categorizing just about all of that last group into the header of "football just isn't important enough to some players to get them to play through the same discomfort that their teammates do."
Pffft. Whatever. Hamstrings, something, something, Jose Reyes.
Lol.
Some people here just refuse to see things for what they actually are. It must be exhausting doing the mental gymnastics to continue with excuse after excuse.
If this coaching staff really is covering for him like this its pretty pathetic. As I said in another thread, I'm spoiled, I expect every coach to act like Tom Coughlin and thats not really fair...not every coach is a HOFer
Maybe these guys have their reasons for lying, but it's very weird to me.
What's his plan? being useless for 2 or 3 more years and never play another down? Getting caught in a lie puts his money at risk. Is he that afraid of playing football?
He may be putting in less than full effort to get healthy, or less than full effort to play football, but sans real evidence, I doubt he's faking it. Such notions are the result of non-stop Toney hate on the internet. Maybe his heart isn't in football, but it is still a long stretch from that to alleging he'll do anything to not play football.
Kadarius Toney Sep 27
@0fficialC2N
Like I Said This Shit krazy. You kan literally get hurt doing nothing.
@ACLrecoveryCLUB
·
Sep 26
MetLife Stadium turf strikes again…It needs to go!!! 🙏 out to Sterling Shepard.
He's telling the world.
twitter - ( New Window )
Quote:
Kadarius Toney Sep 27
@0fficialC2N
Like I Said This Shit krazy. You kan literally get hurt doing nothing.
@ACLrecoveryCLUB
·
Sep 26
MetLife Stadium turf strikes again…It needs to go!!! 🙏 out to Sterling Shepard.
He's telling the world. twitter - ( New Window )
LOL
How the f#ck would he even know what it’s like to even play on the MetLife field???
What's his plan? being useless for 2 or 3 more years and never play another down? Getting caught in a lie puts his money at risk. Is he that afraid of playing football?
He may be putting in less than full effort to get healthy, or less than full effort to play football, but sans real evidence, I doubt he's faking it. Such notions are the result of non-stop Toney hate on the internet. Maybe his heart isn't in football, but it is still a long stretch from that to alleging he'll do anything to not play football.
I’m don’t think he’s faking it. I just think his desire to play is extremely lacking and, he hasn’t proven otherwise.
No, its not just injuries with him. Multiple posters here have cued you in, its wild to me some people still think this is a case of someone with bad injury luck and nothing else going on.
Saying he’s a piece of shit or asshole is definitely over the top. Questioning his commitment and desire to play football are entirely accurate.
Remember, this regime challenged Toney early on. Word gets around on guys especially when scouting. Remember what Sy said.
He’s a non factor and will be gone soon enough. Why wait I don’t know.
Next why didn’t/don’t anyone of you arm chair athletes play for the Giants I mean it is so easy from all the shit talking …. A lot of you guys are hilarious
Coaches lying for him? Something tells me Saban and BB did not teach BD that is the way you do it. Good luck earning the players trust/respect doing that long term.
It's really unfortunate. With a healthy Toney and Wandale (playing to expectations) this O might be pretty good with our run game.
Wish itwas something like a cracked or bruised ribs. Something like that I think you can question. Hamstrings? IDK, especially at his position and how he plays.
Cookie Crumbs - ( New Window )
Like I said a few weeks ago, the second coming of Tim Carter. The only difference was Carter wanted to play. It’s pretty obvious this guy doesn’t. Adios.