Paul Schwartz
@NYPost_Schwartz
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1m
Brian Daboll said Kadarius Toney tweeted his other hamstring - the healthy one - during practice on Thursday. That is why the team left him home and he will miss another game.
If the Giants can go after Toney’s signing bonus, once they release him this offseason. This dude has no intention of playing. He just wants to continue to collect a paycheck for as long he can.
At this point I don't even consider Toney a Giant. It's a shame because in terms of talent, he is one of our better players but you can't game plan with a player like this. Contrarily, I am friends with someone who is a big Nebraska fan and has some friends in the football program. He speaks very highly of Wan'Dale Robinson and his time before he transferred to Kentucky.
After doing nothing for long periods of time. Same thing happened to George Constanza one time.
I’ve been staying out of the Toney debate for the most part, but now this is getting ridiculous. This screams of intentional behavior. How does he tweak the other hamstring when he’s practicing on a limited basis? Or maybe the atrophy joke isn’t that far off and his body really is out of shape from doing nothing.
Sy said there were significant character concerns about Toney.
I’ve been trying to be optimistic. Trying to believe these injuries are all legit. It’s getting very hard to think that this is just a good kid doing what he can to play - but having a lot of bad luck.
It’s tough to rebuild a team when your 1st round pick doesn’t contribute under his rookie contract. I can only hope they either get this kid to play here, or figure out how to make him an attractive trade option somewhere else. That’s a lot of capital to be wasting.
"This is the kind of guy who has all the talent in the world, but is sitting on the bench because no one can fix the problem. He becomes known as a brittle athlete when it's not his fault. You can't just slap electrical stimulations on him, put ice on him and cure the thing. Anyone who pulls his hamstring has to be managed because scar tissue forms and then he is significantly more prone to hamstring pulls."
Who is that about? Not Kadarius Toney.... it's about Jose Reyes
the last time I remember a player having lingering hamstring issues for years was Jose Reyes back in 2003/2004 when he as ~20... it was not something new for him, he had always dealt with hamstring issues and the complications from scar tissue of repeated injuries..
The Mets eventually had to get him to some specialists and he became a durable superstar and franchise icon, until of course his career was derailed when the Mets ran out of money and he had to leave..
If Giants aren't already exploring it, they need to get out to some experts on chronic hamstring issues.
this guy. This was an absolutely horrendous draft pick. Has he found his cleats yet? Maybe he will be missing his jersey or shoulder pads. I am sure a few missed flights are in his future. Anything to not play.
he was projected as a 2nd rounder. I get passing on Parsons and taking the extra 1st from a bad team. Especially given they had character concerns, after being burned on Baker. But Toney also had some potential red flags. Should have drafted Kwity Paye.
Toney showed some real flashes when he was on the field last year, but the dude just cannot get on the field
from a fans perspective (both sides here) is that when it is an injury situation we all fall into two categories:
1) frustrated because he is injured a lot and feel bad for the player because he is trying to get out there but just can't seem to get healthy enough to do it.
or
2) The guy is a bum, never healthy, is wimping out, doesn't care etc.
That then brings fans on either side to battle with each other over "perceive" other biases that may be at play here.
Toney is that lightning rod here because he brings this attention on to himself with his other outside interests, the fact that there were whispers already that football was NOT this guys main interest, that bin many ways he was more gadget player than #1 WR material along with some character red flags that were listed in the pre draft analysis and reports.
You then add the odd circumstance with his cleats his rookie year, missing a lot of time then, missing camp time, getting sick (COVID- twice I believe), getting injured where his toughness was being questioned, having one great game but also in the same game doing something stupid, selfish and out of control- and subsequently being ejected from the game and then the sort of disappearing act late in the year of a losing season where some questioned his WANT TO as far as being on the field.
Toney is as close to crossing the Rubicon, as far as his time here with the Giants goes, as he can get. Anymore oddness, missed time that seems sketchy or odd and he will have written his ticket out of here. His time here will be the draft equivalent of Golladay's FA tenure... Lots of noise, lots of expectation and little to no production.
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
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38m
This is a mess for Kadarius Toney and the Giants. Toney told me the other day the previous hamstring problem was different from the one this summer. So 3 different hamstring injuries already this season. 🤦♂️
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
38m
This is a mess for Kadarius Toney and the Giants. Toney told me the other day the previous hamstring problem was different from the one this summer. So 3 different hamstring injuries already this season. 🤦♂️
whats crazy is he has been so lightly used too...so unless he isn't properly taking care of his body...his body shouldn't be fatigue enough to have hamstring issues. So what exactly is the issue here because he has barely played...is he not stretching properly???
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
38m
This is a mess for Kadarius Toney and the Giants. Toney told me the other day the previous hamstring problem was different from the one this summer. So 3 different hamstring injuries already this season. 🤦♂️
whats crazy is he has been so lightly used too...so unless he isn't properly taking care of his body...his body shouldn't be fatigue enough to have hamstring issues. So what exactly is the issue here because he has barely played...is he not stretching properly???
If the Giants can go after Toney’s signing bonus, once they release him this offseason. This dude has no intention of playing. He just wants to continue to collect a paycheck for as long he can.
His contract is fully guaranteed. Why doesn't he intend on ever playing?
If everyone would just assume he isn't playing each week and take it as a bonus when he does. If he ever gets to a point where he can be on the field consistently we can adjust our expectations.
If everyone would just assume he isn't playing each week and take it as a bonus when he does. If he ever gets to a point where he can be on the field consistently we can adjust our expectations.
I think the consensus is he’s just not that interested in actually playing football. I’m in that camp as well but to be fair, if he does have a more significant injury or a tear why don’t the Giants provide that update. The culture of not providing any real injury updates puts the player in a bad position. They know the extent of the injury and the timeline for recovery why can’t they give that upfront?
I have. It's not nothing. It's REALLY painful, and you can't even lift your leg to walk. And once it's done, as we all know, it's very easy to tweak it again if you come back too soon.
And all high-twitch WRs seem to do it. Especially as rookies and early on in their careers. OBJ did. Ferraris spend more time in the shop than they spend on the road. The key to managing and hopefully avoiding hamstring injuries is EXTENSIVE warm-ups and stretching-out before the physical activity.
So at this point, as frustrating as it is, to me, it's an injury, and yes, Toney seems injury-prone in this respect. I was the one who brought up China Doll II.
But I'm not willing to say it's his attitude or he doesn't WANT to play. Especially since the coaches aren't tap-dancing about him, or saying things like "she's coming along" (Parcells on Terry Glenn). They would never throw him under the bus, but they're not dodging the question either.
I wasn't in love with Toney's character either. Getting caught with an assault rifle in his car was a red flag. Generally speaking, nothing good happens to NFL players who are gun-guys.
But none of any of this means Toney doesn't want to play football.. But he sure has had shit luck.
Believe they drafted him. They had to know even more than what Sy was saying because even Sy admitted he wasn't mentioning everything in his review. That aside the first practice with one sneaker? Seriously? I d have had two sneakers on my feet even if they were two sizes too small if I was him . That told me something tight there. Rap music? I could give a crap. Not fond of it but most players probably like it so who cares. Now the injuries? Whatever. Just never should have been the pick.
does anyone really care anymore about Kadarius Toney? Real good chance he's not even on the team next year and that assumes he even makes it to the end of this season.
Hes one of only a few guys who is young and talented enough to be a plus player on the next good Giants team. And obviously we have a gaping hole at his position.
WR might be the 2nd most important position in the NFL at this point. Having one who is good is extremely valuable
As has been said here many times, aren’t you guys upset with the coaching staff and medical staff for lying and covering up for him?
What choice would they have anyway? His contract is fully guaranteed (as all first round picks are), so they only way to get rid of the contract itself is via trade (or to just eat it in its entirety). The Giants owe more to the players' value (for a variety of purposes, including but not limited to trades) than they do to transparency with the fanbase.
If you're naïve enough to take any NFL coach at their word 100% of the time, that's on you. And you might be just as guilty of allowing your own bias to frame the issue as you're suggesting of others.
I have. It's not nothing. It's REALLY painful, and you can't even lift your leg to walk. And once it's done, as we all know, it's very easy to tweak it again if you come back too soon.
And all high-twitch WRs seem to do it. Especially as rookies and early on in their careers. OBJ did. Ferraris spend more time in the shop than they spend on the road. The key to managing and hopefully avoiding hamstring injuries is EXTENSIVE warm-ups and stretching-out before the physical activity.
So at this point, as frustrating as it is, to me, it's an injury, and yes, Toney seems injury-prone in this respect. I was the one who brought up China Doll II.
But I'm not willing to say it's his attitude or he doesn't WANT to play. Especially since the coaches aren't tap-dancing about him, or saying things like "she's coming along" (Parcells on Terry Glenn). They would never throw him under the bus, but they're not dodging the question either.
I wasn't in love with Toney's character either. Getting caught with an assault rifle in his car was a red flag. Generally speaking, nothing good happens to NFL players who are gun-guys.
But none of any of this means Toney doesn't want to play football.. But he sure has had shit luck.
Nice post David. I remember a while back, when similar doubts about toughness and commitment were being said about perhaps the Giants best ever received, Amani Toomer.
He figured out how to stay healthy, hopefully Toney will. Lots of assumptions being made here about Toney s character.
🤣🤣🤣
I’ve been staying out of the Toney debate for the most part, but now this is getting ridiculous. This screams of intentional behavior. How does he tweak the other hamstring when he’s practicing on a limited basis? Or maybe the atrophy joke isn’t that far off and his body really is out of shape from doing nothing.
I’ve been trying to be optimistic. Trying to believe these injuries are all legit. It’s getting very hard to think that this is just a good kid doing what he can to play - but having a lot of bad luck.
It’s tough to rebuild a team when your 1st round pick doesn’t contribute under his rookie contract. I can only hope they either get this kid to play here, or figure out how to make him an attractive trade option somewhere else. That’s a lot of capital to be wasting.
Who is that about? Not Kadarius Toney.... it's about Jose Reyes
the last time I remember a player having lingering hamstring issues for years was Jose Reyes back in 2003/2004 when he as ~20... it was not something new for him, he had always dealt with hamstring issues and the complications from scar tissue of repeated injuries..
The Mets eventually had to get him to some specialists and he became a durable superstar and franchise icon, until of course his career was derailed when the Mets ran out of money and he had to leave..
If Giants aren't already exploring it, they need to get out to some experts on chronic hamstring issues.
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/03/25/sports/baseball-mets-take-steps-to-prevent-additional-injuries-to-reyes.html - ( New Window )
Just on the surface, he doesn't exactly scream "NY Giants". And then it gets worse from there.
Yet he cleared all our filters?
Toney showed some real flashes when he was on the field last year, but the dude just cannot get on the field
1) frustrated because he is injured a lot and feel bad for the player because he is trying to get out there but just can't seem to get healthy enough to do it.
or
2) The guy is a bum, never healthy, is wimping out, doesn't care etc.
That then brings fans on either side to battle with each other over "perceive" other biases that may be at play here.
Toney is that lightning rod here because he brings this attention on to himself with his other outside interests, the fact that there were whispers already that football was NOT this guys main interest, that bin many ways he was more gadget player than #1 WR material along with some character red flags that were listed in the pre draft analysis and reports.
You then add the odd circumstance with his cleats his rookie year, missing a lot of time then, missing camp time, getting sick (COVID- twice I believe), getting injured where his toughness was being questioned, having one great game but also in the same game doing something stupid, selfish and out of control- and subsequently being ejected from the game and then the sort of disappearing act late in the year of a losing season where some questioned his WANT TO as far as being on the field.
Toney is as close to crossing the Rubicon, as far as his time here with the Giants goes, as he can get. Anymore oddness, missed time that seems sketchy or odd and he will have written his ticket out of here. His time here will be the draft equivalent of Golladay's FA tenure... Lots of noise, lots of expectation and little to no production.
LOL
@JordanRaanan
·
38m
This is a mess for Kadarius Toney and the Giants. Toney told me the other day the previous hamstring problem was different from the one this summer. So 3 different hamstring injuries already this season. 🤦♂️
@JordanRaanan
·
38m
This is a mess for Kadarius Toney and the Giants. Toney told me the other day the previous hamstring problem was different from the one this summer. So 3 different hamstring injuries already this season. 🤦♂️
whats crazy is he has been so lightly used too...so unless he isn't properly taking care of his body...his body shouldn't be fatigue enough to have hamstring issues. So what exactly is the issue here because he has barely played...is he not stretching properly???
but I can understand why some are in camp 2 given your post
Quote:
Jordan Raanan
@JordanRaanan
·
38m
This is a mess for Kadarius Toney and the Giants. Toney told me the other day the previous hamstring problem was different from the one this summer. So 3 different hamstring injuries already this season. 🤦♂️
whats crazy is he has been so lightly used too...so unless he isn't properly taking care of his body...his body shouldn't be fatigue enough to have hamstring issues. So what exactly is the issue here because he has barely played...is he not stretching properly???
See my post above
His contract is fully guaranteed. Why doesn't he intend on ever playing?
This 100%.
And all high-twitch WRs seem to do it. Especially as rookies and early on in their careers. OBJ did. Ferraris spend more time in the shop than they spend on the road. The key to managing and hopefully avoiding hamstring injuries is EXTENSIVE warm-ups and stretching-out before the physical activity.
So at this point, as frustrating as it is, to me, it's an injury, and yes, Toney seems injury-prone in this respect. I was the one who brought up China Doll II.
But I'm not willing to say it's his attitude or he doesn't WANT to play. Especially since the coaches aren't tap-dancing about him, or saying things like "she's coming along" (Parcells on Terry Glenn). They would never throw him under the bus, but they're not dodging the question either.
I wasn't in love with Toney's character either. Getting caught with an assault rifle in his car was a red flag. Generally speaking, nothing good happens to NFL players who are gun-guys.
But none of any of this means Toney doesn't want to play football.. But he sure has had shit luck.
3rdnlong : 9:04 am : link : reply
How many hamstrings does this guy have?
Should be part of their SnC program. Dynamic stretching to warm up and static stretching to cool down
does anyone really care anymore about Kadarius Toney? Real good chance he's not even on the team next year and that assumes he even makes it to the end of this season.
WR might be the 2nd most important position in the NFL at this point. Having one who is good is extremely valuable
Not if the team feels its better for his trade value to say he is hurt than it is to call him out for not wanting to play
I get that there's $$ involved but that will work itself out and not be crippling. Just a viewpoint from the bush league seats.
Good point, why can't more fans just see that Toney really deserves the benefit of the doubt here?!
🙄
Good luck to both of them. Hope their injuries aren't career ending.
What choice would they have anyway? His contract is fully guaranteed (as all first round picks are), so they only way to get rid of the contract itself is via trade (or to just eat it in its entirety). The Giants owe more to the players' value (for a variety of purposes, including but not limited to trades) than they do to transparency with the fanbase.
If you're naïve enough to take any NFL coach at their word 100% of the time, that's on you. And you might be just as guilty of allowing your own bias to frame the issue as you're suggesting of others.
Isn’t that Joka ?
And all high-twitch WRs seem to do it. Especially as rookies and early on in their careers. OBJ did. Ferraris spend more time in the shop than they spend on the road. The key to managing and hopefully avoiding hamstring injuries is EXTENSIVE warm-ups and stretching-out before the physical activity.
So at this point, as frustrating as it is, to me, it's an injury, and yes, Toney seems injury-prone in this respect. I was the one who brought up China Doll II.
But I'm not willing to say it's his attitude or he doesn't WANT to play. Especially since the coaches aren't tap-dancing about him, or saying things like "she's coming along" (Parcells on Terry Glenn). They would never throw him under the bus, but they're not dodging the question either.
I wasn't in love with Toney's character either. Getting caught with an assault rifle in his car was a red flag. Generally speaking, nothing good happens to NFL players who are gun-guys.
But none of any of this means Toney doesn't want to play football.. But he sure has had shit luck.
Nice post David. I remember a while back, when similar doubts about toughness and commitment were being said about perhaps the Giants best ever received, Amani Toomer.
He figured out how to stay healthy, hopefully Toney will. Lots of assumptions being made here about Toney s character.