Out of the pocket, it was okay action. Overuse of panicking. Complete a hole who has trashed him for years who wants to justify the sh!t he has been spewing.
One takeaway is that he’s pretty good when he has time to throw
Pat Schurmer got the best out of him in 2019 (24 TDS/11 INTs), by scheming plays for him that he can succeed at. The only thing Schurmer didn't provide was enough blocking (because our O-line sucked. result .... 38 sacks, 18 fumbles (11 lost).
Since then, he's been excellent at not turning the ball over but his production has gone down the toilet. Daboll and his staff has instead concentrated on max protection, used crossing pass plays to make throws easier for him and RPOs to take advantage of his running abilities.
(Jones is the "anti ELI). Eli couldn't run, but he would kill you if you dared blitz him. Eli wasn't accurate, but very few read and reacted better than him.
The only thing Jones has in common with Eli is that he's determined and has balls of steel.
More important then getting the head coach right. After that it's GM and then QB. Jones has really improved this season. I have gone from get rid of him now to wanting to resign him. I was wrong about the guy. He has so much guts that you are thrilled for him when the team wins.
Out of the pocket, it was okay action. Overuse of panicking. Complete a hole who has trashed him for years who wants to justify the sh!t he has been spewing.
Out of the pocket, it was okay action. Overuse of panicking. Complete a hole who has trashed him for years who wants to justify the sh!t he has been spewing.
Out of the pocket, it was okay action. Overuse of panicking. Complete a hole who has trashed him for years who wants to justify the sh!t he has been spewing.
What the fuck are you talking about?
I think he's attacking Orlovsky who is a generic ESPN hack...??
302 pass plays, only 100 traditional drop back passes.
The Athletic Football podcast had some good info on this too. Extremely high play action rate. And we're good on play action and really bad on standard drop backs. They had more #s too but I can't remember them all.
Bottom line was that we are running a very unusual offense - some might call it gimmicky.
302 pass plays, only 100 traditional drop back passes.
The Athletic Football podcast had some good info on this too. Extremely high play action rate. And we're good on play action and really bad on standard drop backs. They had more #s too but I can't remember them all.
Bottom line was that we are running a very unusual offense - some might call it gimmicky.
You can win some that way though. Jake Plummer made his career on being QB behind the Shanahan zone runs, play action, and bootleg. Some would call that gimmicky too. I don't fault Daboll for doing it. He's gotta play 17 games with what he has. The dirty word there is "system QB" but I don't want to ruin the thread and I don't care to have that argument. One man's "system QB" complaint is another man's "playing to one's strengths" complement.
Well yeah, but he had a 12 year career in the NFL. Six different teams acknowledged that he could with contracts. You don't have to be star to understand NFL offense or what it looks like. Kirk Herbstreit gets paid dozens of millions of dollars to be a respected QB analyst and he was awful and never made it to the pro level.
And it's an awesome sign for us because these guys clearly designed a very customized offense for our personnel. What they are doing is incredibly impressive.
302 pass plays, only 100 traditional drop back passes.
The Athletic Football podcast had some good info on this too. Extremely high play action rate. And we're good on play action and really bad on standard drop backs. They had more #s too but I can't remember them all.
Bottom line was that we are running a very unusual offense - some might call it gimmicky.
When you have the league's best rusher you run a lot of play action. What's gimmicky about that? And if they keep extra blockers in the pass protect, it's because they haven't been able to handle it with just the oline yet.
Barkley is the ONLY legit weapon on the feild. Making the defense consider him on most plays is just common sense good coaching.
The offensive line is a work in progress. Play action gives them a split second advantage in their assignments.
We throw a ton out of 2 and 3 TE sets. That is a "run formation" why not lean into that. Scheming up easy throws to TE with the chip and release out of play action is smart. It's free yard age
Our best WR are not on the feild and they make be lacking in some areas. holding the LB's for a split second can create some room the Wrs cannot create for themselves.
It is making use of what we have and coaching to the strength of the entire unit, as well as the QB.
Orlovsky has a vested interest in supporting/ protecting his opinion of the QB that he has held since draft night onward
Orlovsky has a vested interest in supporting/ protecting his opinion of the QB that he has held since draft night onward
I think that's overstated in general. Why? Does he not get paid if he's wrong? Of course not. He will not be dragged out into the town square for it. No one is. The consequence for being 'wrong' is people make fun of him on twitter, that's all.
Offensively and defensively play to your strengths and protect your weaknesses.
The line is weak in pass blocking right now so go max protection and roll the QB.
3 reads so he can go quick on his reads and get the ball out quickly limit the time to throw.
Coaches in the past have had a set system and just ran it trying to impose you will on the other team which is great if your team in Uber talented but this team is not that.
Wink is guilty of that at times and gets him burnt but it has not just yet in this season.
“My wife hates football, and my kids don’t really care,” Young told Alex Sherman of Bloomberg Businessweek. “I see myself as a deal guy first. I’ve put football behind me. Roger Staubach once told me — and I’ll never forget it: ‘When you retire, run. Never look back.'”
Sherman explains that Young “may have quit ESPN years ago if not for his private equity partners, who like him to keep a high profile,” and that Young “spends no more than an hour or two at the stadium” preparing for what he’ll say on the air.
“Once the game starts, he barely watches the action,” Sherman writes.
guy knows a fuck ton and has been incredibly fair in his analysis. One of the better listens on ESPN.
Fair enough. I don't watch much ESPN talk shows, but that was the message I was interpreting from that fella.
This is what I got as well. It was a compliment veiled over DJ still sucks and it's the coach and system that is making him look better. May be because he wasn't a successful QB in the NFL himself he feels that he knows what suck is for a QB.
It doesn't matter though... Enjoying the winning now.
Orlovsky has a vested interest in supporting/ protecting his opinion of the QB that he has held since draft night onward
I think that's overstated in general. Why? Does he not get paid if he's wrong? Of course not. He will not be dragged out into the town square for it. No one is. The consequence for being 'wrong' is people make fun of him on twitter, that's all.
You may be right about that. It's just my opinon.
I will say there are def people in the world who are loathe to admit they were wrong.
and those "talking heads", in a sense it doesn't matter if they are loved or hated. as long as they evoke reaction they are getting clicks or likes or whatever they need to remain employed. Jones is a topic that the evokes reaction.
and our OL not being good at pass protection, as it does about Jones. Its just lucky for us that this offense fits Jones skillset.
Orlovsky positions as a negative, but I look at it like Jones has the skillset to execute an offense that best fits the team. An Immobile QB could not run this. Orlovsky has been critical of Jones for a while now
Barkley is the ONLY legit weapon on the feild. Making the defense consider him on most plays is just common sense good coaching.
The offensive line is a work in progress. Play action gives them a split second advantage in their assignments.
We throw a ton out of 2 and 3 TE sets. That is a "run formation" why not lean into that. Scheming up easy throws to TE with the chip and release out of play action is smart. It's free yard age
Our best WR are not on the feild and they make be lacking in some areas. holding the LB's for a split second can create some room the Wrs cannot create for themselves.
It is making use of what we have and coaching to the strength of the entire unit, as well as the QB.
Orlovsky has a vested interest in supporting/ protecting his opinion of the QB that he has held since draft night onward
Out of the pocket, it was okay action. Overuse of panicking. Complete a hole who has trashed him for years who wants to justify the sh!t he has been spewing.
It obviously sucks for you that Jones is playing well but keep your chin up. He'll throw a couple of picks one of these weeks, and you'll be back in business.
guy knows a fuck ton and has been incredibly fair in his analysis. One of the better listens on ESPN.
Where did Orlovsky go to college again?
Why does that matter? My opinion of him was actually negative at first - he was like Romo, very loud and didn’t breath. He’s gotten a lot better in that regard and provides better insight than just about anyone in the business.
RE: Agree a lot of half field reads, no full field scans
It obviously sucks for you that Jones is playing well but keep your chin up. He'll throw a couple of picks one of these weeks, and you'll be back in business.
This seems off topic. I root for the Giants to win. Why would it suck for me if Jones plays well? You’re a turd on this board.
guy knows a fuck ton and has been incredibly fair in his analysis. One of the better listens on ESPN.
Where did Orlovsky go to college again?
Why does that matter? My opinion of him was actually negative at first - he was like Romo, very loud and didn’t breath. He’s gotten a lot better in that regard and provides better insight than just about anyone in the business.
Im actually just joking...
I think Orlavsky is a great analyst and brings 1000s of hours of film.room experience at rhe NFL level with him
You don’t have to throw it on an RPO. Or a boot leg.
What? That's obvious.
If you watched the games you know DJ didn't drop back to pass 60 times per week, hell I'm not even sure we ran that much plays as an entire offense. Run designed plays + pass designed plays.
Just odd that you fixated on these numbers the same way Orlovsky did, unless I'm being very dumb here, I just don't get it how it would already have been 300+ pass plays.
Now about what Orlovsky was trying to argue, I think he nails it with DJ's best quality, it's always been his accuracy imo.
But I've always believed his greatest flaw was a lack of confidence, for anyone that's played competitive sports at any level, you know that can have a snowball effect on your game, a big part of sports are the mental part, maybe even more than 50% in some cases (obviously this varies depending on the sport).
And seasons always started bad for DJ: 0-5 in 2020 and 0-3 in 2021. That and the fact that he had subpar talent surrounding him in some areas, some bad coaching IMO and some nagging injuries, I can't see how someone who doesn't trust himself (lack of confidence) could turn that around in those circunstances.
Now the situation is very different, coaching appers to be excelent, the team started the season VERY well and he has some pieces on offense (AT and Barkley), now he has time to build his confidence back up and hopefully show us what he's capable of. Not sure what that would be but hopefully enough so that we could be comfortable moving forward with him, it would really suck to have to start over at QB.
Pat Schurmer got the best out of him in 2019 (24 TDS/11 INTs), by scheming plays for him that he can succeed at. The only thing Schurmer didn't provide was enough blocking (because our O-line sucked. result .... 38 sacks, 18 fumbles (11 lost).
Since then, he's been excellent at not turning the ball over but his production has gone down the toilet. Daboll and his staff has instead concentrated on max protection, used crossing pass plays to make throws easier for him and RPOs to take advantage of his running abilities.
(Jones is the "anti ELI). Eli couldn't run, but he would kill you if you dared blitz him. Eli wasn't accurate, but very few read and reacted better than him.
The only thing Jones has in common with Eli is that he's determined and has balls of steel.
What the fuck are you talking about?
You okay?
Quote:
Out of the pocket, it was okay action. Overuse of panicking. Complete a hole who has trashed him for years who wants to justify the sh!t he has been spewing.
What the fuck are you talking about?
I think he's attacking Orlovsky who is a generic ESPN hack...??
The Athletic Football podcast had some good info on this too. Extremely high play action rate. And we're good on play action and really bad on standard drop backs. They had more #s too but I can't remember them all.
Bottom line was that we are running a very unusual offense - some might call it gimmicky.
Those who can't, work for ESPN.
Quote:
302 pass plays, only 100 traditional drop back passes.
The Athletic Football podcast had some good info on this too. Extremely high play action rate. And we're good on play action and really bad on standard drop backs. They had more #s too but I can't remember them all.
Bottom line was that we are running a very unusual offense - some might call it gimmicky.
You can win some that way though. Jake Plummer made his career on being QB behind the Shanahan zone runs, play action, and bootleg. Some would call that gimmicky too. I don't fault Daboll for doing it. He's gotta play 17 games with what he has. The dirty word there is "system QB" but I don't want to ruin the thread and I don't care to have that argument. One man's "system QB" complaint is another man's "playing to one's strengths" complement.
Those who can't, work for ESPN.
Well yeah, but he had a 12 year career in the NFL. Six different teams acknowledged that he could with contracts. You don't have to be star to understand NFL offense or what it looks like. Kirk Herbstreit gets paid dozens of millions of dollars to be a respected QB analyst and he was awful and never made it to the pro level.
Fair enough. I don't watch much ESPN talk shows, but that was the message I was interpreting from that fella.
Quote:
302 pass plays, only 100 traditional drop back passes.
The Athletic Football podcast had some good info on this too. Extremely high play action rate. And we're good on play action and really bad on standard drop backs. They had more #s too but I can't remember them all.
Bottom line was that we are running a very unusual offense - some might call it gimmicky.
When you have the league's best rusher you run a lot of play action. What's gimmicky about that? And if they keep extra blockers in the pass protect, it's because they haven't been able to handle it with just the oline yet.
Barkley is the ONLY legit weapon on the feild. Making the defense consider him on most plays is just common sense good coaching.
The offensive line is a work in progress. Play action gives them a split second advantage in their assignments.
We throw a ton out of 2 and 3 TE sets. That is a "run formation" why not lean into that. Scheming up easy throws to TE with the chip and release out of play action is smart. It's free yard age
Our best WR are not on the feild and they make be lacking in some areas. holding the LB's for a split second can create some room the Wrs cannot create for themselves.
It is making use of what we have and coaching to the strength of the entire unit, as well as the QB.
Orlovsky has a vested interest in supporting/ protecting his opinion of the QB that he has held since draft night onward
Orlovsky has a vested interest in supporting/ protecting his opinion of the QB that he has held since draft night onward
I think that's overstated in general. Why? Does he not get paid if he's wrong? Of course not. He will not be dragged out into the town square for it. No one is. The consequence for being 'wrong' is people make fun of him on twitter, that's all.
The line is weak in pass blocking right now so go max protection and roll the QB.
3 reads so he can go quick on his reads and get the ball out quickly limit the time to throw.
Coaches in the past have had a set system and just ran it trying to impose you will on the other team which is great if your team in Uber talented but this team is not that.
Wink is guilty of that at times and gets him burnt but it has not just yet in this season.
Those who can't, work for ESPN.
Makes no sense. So any non-active player isn’t worth listening to?
Those who can't, work for ESPN.
Steve Young currently works at ESPN.
Those who can't, work for ESPN.
How come you’re not at ESPN?
Quote:
who can, do
Those who can't, work for ESPN.
Steve Young currently works at ESPN.
Sherman explains that Young “may have quit ESPN years ago if not for his private equity partners, who like him to keep a high profile,” and that Young “spends no more than an hour or two at the stadium” preparing for what he’ll say on the air.
“Once the game starts, he barely watches the action,” Sherman writes.
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
guy knows a fuck ton and has been incredibly fair in his analysis. One of the better listens on ESPN.
Fair enough. I don't watch much ESPN talk shows, but that was the message I was interpreting from that fella.
This is what I got as well. It was a compliment veiled over DJ still sucks and it's the coach and system that is making him look better. May be because he wasn't a successful QB in the NFL himself he feels that he knows what suck is for a QB.
It doesn't matter though... Enjoying the winning now.
Quote:
Orlovsky has a vested interest in supporting/ protecting his opinion of the QB that he has held since draft night onward
I think that's overstated in general. Why? Does he not get paid if he's wrong? Of course not. He will not be dragged out into the town square for it. No one is. The consequence for being 'wrong' is people make fun of him on twitter, that's all.
You may be right about that. It's just my opinon.
I will say there are def people in the world who are loathe to admit they were wrong.
and those "talking heads", in a sense it doesn't matter if they are loved or hated. as long as they evoke reaction they are getting clicks or likes or whatever they need to remain employed. Jones is a topic that the evokes reaction.
Daboll calls it a boot setup too. Is he an idiot too?
Link - ( New Window )
Orlovsky positions as a negative, but I look at it like Jones has the skillset to execute an offense that best fits the team. An Immobile QB could not run this. Orlovsky has been critical of Jones for a while now
What am I getting wrong here? 302 pass plays in 5 games would amount to 1027 pass plays in a season, wtf?
This stat looks completely made up.
Barkley is the ONLY legit weapon on the feild. Making the defense consider him on most plays is just common sense good coaching.
The offensive line is a work in progress. Play action gives them a split second advantage in their assignments.
We throw a ton out of 2 and 3 TE sets. That is a "run formation" why not lean into that. Scheming up easy throws to TE with the chip and release out of play action is smart. It's free yard age
Our best WR are not on the feild and they make be lacking in some areas. holding the LB's for a split second can create some room the Wrs cannot create for themselves.
It is making use of what we have and coaching to the strength of the entire unit, as well as the QB.
Orlovsky has a vested interest in supporting/ protecting his opinion of the QB that he has held since draft night onward
X1000
He's growing into a very good TV analyst. Good call.
Literally could not disagree more with this post.
Quote:
302 pass plays, only 100 traditional drop back passes.
What am I getting wrong here? 302 pass plays in 5 games would amount to 1027 pass plays in a season, wtf?
This stat looks completely made up.
He probably meant plays. They’ve ran 315 so subtract the sacks
Quote:
who can, do
Those who can't, work for ESPN.
How come you’re not at ESPN?
lmao, butthurt over Orlavsky now?
It obviously sucks for you that Jones is playing well but keep your chin up. He'll throw a couple of picks one of these weeks, and you'll be back in business.
Where did Orlovsky go to college again?
He is not saying Jones still sucks, he is saying Daboll is putting him in the best position to succeed, its not a knock its the truth..
They are feeding Barkley and Jones is playing off of that using his legs and getting guys open with good scheme..
People get so butthurt when people dont kiss Jones ass, he has played well but there is a reason for why he is playing well..
Quote:
In comment 15858195 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
302 pass plays, only 100 traditional drop back passes.
What am I getting wrong here? 302 pass plays in 5 games would amount to 1027 pass plays in a season, wtf?
This stat looks completely made up.
He probably meant plays. They’ve ran 315 so subtract the sacks
I don't think so, after that he said "that means over 200 hundred of them are play-action, screen, RPO, boot"
All of those are pass plays so he meant 302 pass plays.
I mean I don't think Orlovsky is bad but when you make up numbers just to tell a narrative you lose your point (even if it is a good one imv).
There's also a possibility he just misinterpreted the numbers, but I don't know.
I agree. You can disagree with him, but he knows what he is talking about, and he has defended Jones in the past.
Quote:
guy knows a fuck ton and has been incredibly fair in his analysis. One of the better listens on ESPN.
Where did Orlovsky go to college again?
Why does that matter? My opinion of him was actually negative at first - he was like Romo, very loud and didn’t breath. He’s gotten a lot better in that regard and provides better insight than just about anyone in the business.
Lemueix? He sucks as a pass protector too.
Quote:
In comment 15858201 Ron Johnson said:
Quote:
who can, do
Those who can't, work for ESPN.
How come you’re not at ESPN?
lmao, butthurt over Orlavsky now?
It obviously sucks for you that Jones is playing well but keep your chin up. He'll throw a couple of picks one of these weeks, and you'll be back in business.
This seems off topic. I root for the Giants to win. Why would it suck for me if Jones plays well? You’re a turd on this board.
Quote:
In comment 15858203 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
guy knows a fuck ton and has been incredibly fair in his analysis. One of the better listens on ESPN.
Where did Orlovsky go to college again?
Why does that matter? My opinion of him was actually negative at first - he was like Romo, very loud and didn’t breath. He’s gotten a lot better in that regard and provides better insight than just about anyone in the business.
Im actually just joking...
I think Orlavsky is a great analyst and brings 1000s of hours of film.room experience at rhe NFL level with him
What? That's obvious.
If you watched the games you know DJ didn't drop back to pass 60 times per week, hell I'm not even sure we ran that much plays as an entire offense. Run designed plays + pass designed plays.
Just odd that you fixated on these numbers the same way Orlovsky did, unless I'm being very dumb here, I just don't get it how it would already have been 300+ pass plays.
Now about what Orlovsky was trying to argue, I think he nails it with DJ's best quality, it's always been his accuracy imo.
But I've always believed his greatest flaw was a lack of confidence, for anyone that's played competitive sports at any level, you know that can have a snowball effect on your game, a big part of sports are the mental part, maybe even more than 50% in some cases (obviously this varies depending on the sport).
And seasons always started bad for DJ: 0-5 in 2020 and 0-3 in 2021. That and the fact that he had subpar talent surrounding him in some areas, some bad coaching IMO and some nagging injuries, I can't see how someone who doesn't trust himself (lack of confidence) could turn that around in those circunstances.
Now the situation is very different, coaching appers to be excelent, the team started the season VERY well and he has some pieces on offense (AT and Barkley), now he has time to build his confidence back up and hopefully show us what he's capable of. Not sure what that would be but hopefully enough so that we could be comfortable moving forward with him, it would really suck to have to start over at QB.