If he keeps playing this way (no regression) what kind of deal would he be offered by the Giants? Do you think they will over pay by alot?
He is playing great but he is no Josh Allen/Mahomes type qb so I would not offer 300 mil. He is just not worth that to me.
But he hasn't earned a top 10 QB contract yet I don't think... but if he keeps winning you do what it takes to keep him even if that means Franchise Tag.
Guys like Mariotta, Tannehill, Bridgewater, Fitzpatrick, etc have all gotten big money deals.
For anyone thinking the Giants can just throw him a low money deal to keep him, think again.
This offseason I was ready to move on from DJ, but I did not think that we had a shot at the top 2/3 qbs in next year's draft without giving up 3 years of #1 picks. I was hoping for this kind of season from DJ so we could keep our picks and build around our core. Looks like I got my wish!
And if Schoen and Daboll had granted that 5th year option, all we would have heard is that they were just Mara puppets and no different than the last regime.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
They know what's best for the team going forward. If we can get Jones' production for less, they will.
Even with a solid 2022 I'm not sure any teams outside the Giants would be willing to offer >$15M per season. There is too much risk that Jones progress has more to do with coaching than pure development, and the odds that Jones reverts to 2019-2021 DJ in a new system. My bet is that the Giants sign Jones to a 3/$60M with some an option that brings the total value to 4/$90M.
And another 10 TDS on the ground.
Quote:
Just a few short months ago it was 24/7 pitchforks and torches now we talking contracts
And if Schoen and Daboll had granted that 5th year option, all we would have heard is that they were just Mara puppets and no different than the last regime.
If they had done it without seeing him have success in their system it would have been a mistake. Most acknowledge not picking up the 5th year option was a no-brainer.
It is ok to draw different conclusions as more data becomes available. It can be true that declining his fifth year option last offseason was the correct decision at the time, and that offering him a new contract this offseason is a good decision based on increased and sustained success.
Our pass pro stinks and we have the worst pass catchers in the league. Someone is gonna project what he does stat wise with a better offense around him. He’s not a coach killer, is proving he can play winning football, 4 game winning drives already, and elevates his play in the 4th. The Bucs will 100% be interested with Arians around, Bowles, and a team looking to win now. DJ can do a lot of what Arians is looking for in a QB, a guy that can play top down and deliver the ball accurately consistently deep and intermediate.
Guys like Mariotta, Tannehill, Bridgewater, Fitzpatrick, etc have all gotten big money deals.
For anyone thinking the Giants can just throw him a low money deal to keep him, think again.
I think 4 years/ 135, 100 million guaranteed for starters.
Might be higher if he stays healthy and wins a playoff game.
At the rate he’s going now, I’m thinking 3-4 years @ around $20M might be realistic for both sides. First year cap number around $10M, and most guarantees done after24 makes sense to me.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
Agreed.
And I'm VERY curious to see what the market would be like for him.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
They can transition tag him, get the ROFR, and the only risk is losing the potential comp pick. I think that's a very viable option.
Quote:
A third of the league needs a quarterback or may need a new quarterback. Even teams like Green Bay, Baltimore and Las Vegas may be looking.
Guys like Mariotta, Tannehill, Bridgewater, Fitzpatrick, etc have all gotten big money deals.
For anyone thinking the Giants can just throw him a low money deal to keep him, think again.
I think 4 years/ 135, 100 million guaranteed for starters.
Might be higher if he stays healthy and wins a playoff game.
Their assholes will be on fire if this happens, and I’m going to love every second of it.
Quote:
go out the market and get an offer(s). Keep in touch with his agent and hopefully make a gentleman's agreement for last look.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
They can transition tag him, get the ROFR, and the only risk is losing the potential comp pick. I think that's a very viable option.
The TT is usually < FT, right, because it's an average of the top ten salaries at each position?
We have probably played ourselves out of drafting one of the top three QBs in the draft, so sits unlikely we can draft a rookie and roll with him in 1-2 years. So I think we sign Jones for 4 years and draft his replacement.
Yeah, at this pace, I'm not thinking he'll be some coveted FA teams will want to throw money at this offseason. Not every team is gonna be like, "We sign this guy and all we have to do is keep the game close as our offense struggles for most of the game."
Quote:
In comment 15867290 Ben in Tampa said:
Quote:
A third of the league needs a quarterback or may need a new quarterback. Even teams like Green Bay, Baltimore and Las Vegas may be looking.
Guys like Mariotta, Tannehill, Bridgewater, Fitzpatrick, etc have all gotten big money deals.
For anyone thinking the Giants can just throw him a low money deal to keep him, think again.
I think 4 years/ 135, 100 million guaranteed for starters.
Might be higher if he stays healthy and wins a playoff game.
Their assholes will be on fire if this happens, and I’m going to love every second of it.
It still won't be as exciting as Chris Pettit getting fired.
Bortles got 3 for $54mil after the 2017 playoff run. About half was GTD
Jones IMO could get 3 yrs, high 60’s/low 70’s. Half GTD.
That said, there’s a lot of season left…
Also not comparing Jones to Bortles, but at the time Bortles was a much maligned former top 5 pick who had shown flashes and taken his team on a deep postseason run. Jags had a strong defense and running game and needed to hold serve at QB
Would rather tag him than give out 35apy
We are in desperate need of a supporting cast. A #1 WR is important. What are we doing with Barkley?
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
But are you trusting them? You and Go Terps (basically the same thinkers) want Jones gone, period. So if Schoen and DaBoll keep him are you trusting them or now doubting them because their decision doesn't fit your thinking?
“DJ has been exposed, we need a new QB next year”
Quote:
go out the market and get an offer(s). Keep in touch with his agent and hopefully make a gentleman's agreement for last look.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
But are you trusting them? You and Go Terps (basically the same thinkers) want Jones gone, period. So if Schoen and DaBoll keep him are you trusting them or now doubting them because their decision doesn't fit your thinking?
Then that means that they capitulated to the pressure from Mara.
Now....as he gets his talent back at WR and TE......we may see that happening.
I agree with the 2- $36 Million.
But in fairness to Danny, devote resources to improving our WR Corps so he doesn't have to take out the knives in a gun fight.
2,893 yards
6.4 Y/A
14 TDs
6 INTs
Brady is next at $25 million
And below that includes rookies contracts like Herbert, Lawrence, burrow and Zach Wilson.
So, getting a bargain at QB ain’t easy.
Geno is getting 3.5 mil this year, but is a UFA at the end of the season
Getting a bargain (team friendly deal) outside of a rookie contract is basically either luck or Tom Brady
We can hope that DJ is a rare breed that sees what is being built, understands the coaches here are vital to his development, and signs for less than he can get. But with all people shitting on him for these years, and the work his has done, who can blame him for demanding regular starting QB money (30 mil/year)
Assuming things continue as they are?
“DJ has been exposed, we need a new QB next year”
Here's what we know:
- The Giants are 5-1
- The Giants are running a conservative offense
- DJ's play within that conservative offense has contributed to the Giants being 5-1
That's it. That's all we know with any certainty about the Giants (on the offensive side of the ball) and DJ.
We don't know if DJ is being limited by the offense being conservative or if BD/MK's view of DJ is one of the reasons for the offense being conservative.
My opinion, while making no assumptions about how BD/MK view DJ, is that one of those two things is a fundamental insight that we, as fans, can't answer with certainty, but only one can be true.
If the Giants feel as though DJ has cemented himself as QB1 and just needs more tools to succeed, he's going to get a contract that will have an AAV of at least $25M, and probably closer to $30M (or more).
If the Giants feel as though they have been able to patch together an offense in spite of DJ's limitations, they'll move on, and even if they go with a veteran placeholder to guide a rookie, it will be one who BD/MK feel aligns with the offense they want to run (again, this scenario is the version where the Giants are viewing DJ as one of the limitations rather than a victim of his surroundings) rather than continue to run an alternate version of the offense while they train up a rookie in the preferred offensive style.
So it's one or the other, IMO: either DJ fits what they want to do and is worth committing to, and that will command a contract of more than $25M/yr; or DJ limits what they want to do and in that case, there isn't enough of a bargain available to make it worthwhile to run a watered-down version of the offense with DJ filling the role of the veteran placeholder (because they could just remain watered-down with the rookie getting reps if that's the intent).
I have never seen the short-term DJ-as-placeholder scenarios to be realistic. It's a halfway-pregnant suggestion. Either the Giants see DJ as the answer, and will pay him accordingly, or they see him as an obstacle, and they'll move on. Just my POV on it.
The big question is ... does the league view him as a top 14 QB? And if not, what number do they value him at?
There is a VERY thin middle market for QBs. Maybe he's the 1st of his kind in this regard.
I agree
And the great thing is that this staff knows the answers and will
make the best decision when it is time.
We are all seeing that having a great coaching staff (and GM) is as important, if not more important, than team talent.
And since this staff knows him the best, perhaps the value they put in him will not be exceeded. It would be huge risk for another GM to outbid us on a guy they can’t know nearly as well.
Quote:
go out the market and get an offer(s). Keep in touch with his agent and hopefully make a gentleman's agreement for last look.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
But are you trusting them? You and Go Terps (basically the same thinkers) want Jones gone, period. So if Schoen and DaBoll keep him are you trusting them or now doubting them because their decision doesn't fit your thinking?
I won't speak for GT, but I came into the year thinking this was Jones's last. If he absolutely killed it this year with high production, I think it would be a more interesting conversation about the future.
Now, we're winning and Jones is contributing. That's very positive on the surface. And a lot has gone right for a change in terms of good fortune during games. That's football.
But this feels more scheme than Jones right now. And I think that that has to shift significantly for Jones to be seriously in the discussion for the future; and I think Schoen and Daboll likely feel similarly.
If Jones finishes the season based on annualizing his current production, but they decide to keep Jones, especially with a multi-year deal, I'll be stunned. And be more skeptical of Schoen and Daboll.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
That said, his plays Nad the team's, makes this a .ore difficult scenario. We won't lick high enough to draft a top QB. Even if we did, that may set us back a year. They may almost be forced to re-sign him.
I have questioned this past week, how creative can the Giants grt to be able to sign both Jones and Barkley? They almost make more sense as a package, if that wasn't a compete cap killer. Individually, Barkley is the far better player. But, he makes less sense to sign if you had to pick one given his position.
Either way, let's see where the team is after week 17 (or playoffs) and what Jones' numbers are. For all the excitement over Jones play and the team's play, Jones still does not project to even have 20 YD passes and this is still not an offense that scores consistently (although much improved). I still maintain, in order to decide Jones is the guy to take us to the next level he has to show a lot more. My bar may have come down a hit with his recent play because he has been both consistent and efficient.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
Couldn’t we use the Transition Tag in this case? He’d get paid as if he was top 10 at his position instead of top 5 with FT.
Quote:
go out the market and get an offer(s). Keep in touch with his agent and hopefully make a gentleman's agreement for last look.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
Couldn’t we use the Transition Tag in this case? He’d get paid as if he was top 10 at his position instead of top 5 with FT.
I believe that is correct. christian offered this as a counter to what I wrote.
Frankly, however, I'm not sure if Jones would get $27M AAV on the market. That's why I would be willing to risk losing Jones without a TT and dare Team Jones to go elsewhere. This is the best coaching staff he's ever had. Do you think he wants to go somewhere else and start over?
Quote:
In comment 15867308 bw in dc said:
Quote:
go out the market and get an offer(s). Keep in touch with his agent and hopefully make a gentleman's agreement for last look.
I see no reason to bid against ourselves.
If Jones gets a great deal for an ambitious suitor, then let him go and find another solution. I am going to trust Schoen/Daboll to find a replacement.
Couldn’t we use the Transition Tag in this case? He’d get paid as if he was top 10 at his position instead of top 5 with FT.
I believe that is correct. christian offered this as a counter to what I wrote.
Frankly, however, I'm not sure if Jones would get $27M AAV on the market. That's why I would be willing to risk losing Jones without a TT and dare Team Jones to go elsewhere. This is the best coaching staff he's ever had. Do you think he wants to go somewhere else and start over?
it just takes one idiot team to make it happen with an outrageous offer.