that being said it DOES put a little heat on them if Toney goes to KC, suits up immediately and starts playing well.
Why? Toney did nothing here, 2021 or 2022.. What he does elsewhere is irrelevant to what he did or might do here.
If you have a GF or wife and she looks great but is horrible to you, drinks a lot and says stupid shit or is lazy as all hell and then you dump her and she meets someone else and changes her attitude, changes her way of life- did you make a mistake for dumping her?? No..
Maybe Toney grows up a tad and changes how he does stuff.. I think any positive play will be short lived and his true nature will come out again...
wanted to be Tyreek II.
Now he’ll get his chance.
I hope his hamstring goes right up to his brain, or facsimile thereof.
Let’s start a depreciation thread for the worthless, person.
that being said it DOES put a little heat on them if Toney goes to KC, suits up immediately and starts playing well.
Why? Toney did nothing here, 2021 or 2022.. What he does elsewhere is irrelevant to what he did or might do here.
If you have a GF or wife and she looks great but is horrible to you, drinks a lot and says stupid shit or is lazy as all hell and then you dump her and she meets someone else and changes her attitude, changes her way of life- did you make a mistake for dumping her?? No..
Maybe Toney grows up a tad and changes how he does stuff.. I think any positive play will be short lived and his true nature will come out again...
If and this is a big IF as he has shown nothing, IF he goes to KC suits up right away and starts producing big for them, there will be some media questioning what the Giants did. I think thats just a reality of the world and comes whenever you trade a high pick 1 year after drafting him.
because it doesnt make this team better. Maybe we make a move at WR. If we dont it is a bad move because I think he could have helped us down the stretch. I cant argue that he would have because his health has been an issue. If the trade deadline passes and we dont have another WR and Toney is playing for the Chiefs its a bad move.
We did go 6-1 pretty much without him, but just like other injured players on the road to coming back I think he could have made a difference for us.
Wasn't Toney having problems learning the playbook
Unless all of that changes, I doubt he's anything more than a KO returner (or just has a special package for 3rd down WR) for Reid/Mahomes. I doubt Mahomes is going to trust Toney otherwise. unless they are using him just to clear out an area.
For what the situation is. My expectations for him in KC is to have a couple of moments out there where he shines, but never amount to much there either.
New #Chiefs WR Kadarius Toney's contract is fully guaranteed for about $5.2 million through 2024, plus a fifth-year option.
So the #Giants get that money off their books and pick up 3rd- and 6th-round picks, while KC bets on the upside of the 20th overall pick in the 2021 draft.
According to Toney we waited until he was healthy to trade him even though we are hard up for receivers. And he was a first round pick last year and we were willing to take a low three and six for him.
I mean it doesn't get anymore damning than that about this guy's character.
I mean when this guy opens his mouth he just appears even more stupid and spiteful.
lets face it. This guy did not want to be here from the very beginning. One of the worst draft picks ever.
I don't understand how you can have months to prepare for the draft and then get caught flat-footed the way they did.
I've never forgotten what Jim Fassel (may he RIP) said about football people being Phys. Ed. majors. Nothing overly intellectual about these people.
Me neither - I quoted that exact saying to my dad this past weekend, lol.
Haha! It explains why the Bill Belichicks (Economics major and coach's son) and Jimmy Johnsons (psychology major) of the world have been so successful over the years against their competition. Here's another quote I like: "More games are lost than won in the NFL" - I think by Phil Simms
In any case, these guys ain't exactly rocket scientists. Parcells knew that. He had card counting Ray ****ley (who was kicked out of Vegas) manage the clock for him back in the day. These coaches can't seem to get out of their own way more often than not.
Quote:
WHAT will Al Davis, Bill Walsh, Bill Belichick, Mike Martz and Steve Spurrier think? Will they ever recover?
Each's reputation as a football ''genius'' has been debunked, if not destroyed, by Jim Fassel. Going into the Giants' game in Arizona today, Fassel's kicker, Matt Bryant, had booted nine field goals in nine attempts so Fassel, the Giants' coach, was asked early last week if he was a genius for having recalled Bryant from the Texas pawnshop where he was working after Fassel had cut him.
''There are no geniuses in our business,'' Fassel said. ''We're all P.E. majors coaching P.E. majors.''
No geniuses? Just older physical education majors coaching younger physical education majors?
KC has so many weapons and one of the best QBs in history, it should be pretty easy for him to get open. I don't think he'll be getting the kind of tread he got for the 15 min. of football he played here. I also don't think KC will give him any kind of leeway to be the dumbbell he was here.
I also think he'll give it more effort there. I just get the sense he wanted out as much as we wanted him out. Good riddance.
And hey, worst case scenario: if KC goes to the super bowl against Philly, and he can be a productive weapon against Philly, then we kinda win a little bit? Kinda?
Is it fair to at least speculate that maybe Daboll and Schoen were doubtful about the extent of Kadarius Toney's injury and that maybe they thought he could have suited up?
Or is this just unfair and too speculative to even consider?
I meant Parcells having H***ley handle the clock for him as being a
Are you two guys willing to take a shot at my highly subjective question?
"Honest question in light of Toney trade... Is it fair to at least speculate that maybe Daboll and Schoen were doubtful about the extent of Kadarius Toney's injury and that maybe they thought he could have suited up? Or is this just unfair and too speculative to even consider?"
To all the people saying that he did not want to be here.
he was our pick and we want him to succeed here, but:
We've all spent a lot of time praising this coaching staff and the culture/environment they are creating. If Toney doesn't fit with that, if he damages that, then he's got to go.
We've got a lot of picks next year, and building this team is the plan
Is it fair to at least speculate that maybe Daboll and Schoen were doubtful about the extent of Kadarius Toney's injury and that maybe they thought he could have suited up?
Or is this just unfair and too speculative to even consider?
It’s not speculative at all. One of the beat writers (Duggan or Stapleton, I believe) tweeted LAST SEASON that Judge & Co. thought Toney could’ve played the final 2 games and he just said no. It’s not a stretch at all to believe that a new front office and coaching staff got the same feeling about him.
I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if his hamstrings miraculously heal as soon as he gets to KC.
A 3rd and a 6th is great value for a guy who makes Antonio Brown look locked in. Amazed the Chiefs gave up that much for a 5 cent head no matter the potential
A 3rd and a 6th is great value for a guy who makes Antonio Brown look locked in. Amazed the Chiefs gave up that much for a 5 cent head no matter the potential
These are conditional and who knows what the conditions are. On roster, production, availability?
A 3rd and a 6th is great value for a guy who makes Antonio Brown look locked in. Amazed the Chiefs gave up that much for a 5 cent head no matter the potential
These are conditional and who knows what the conditions are. On roster, production, availability?
Why? Doesn't this trade tell you everything you need to know about how Schoen/Daboll felt about Toney's willingness/availability to play?
If they thought he could have provided anything of value, especially with how WR-needy we are, they'd have kept him.
If we don't trade for a WR by the deadline, we're in exactly the same spot as if we'd have kept Toney, except now we have a little more cap space and a couple of extra draft picks.
A 3rd and a 6th is great value for a guy who makes Antonio Brown look locked in. Amazed the Chiefs gave up that much for a 5 cent head no matter the potential
These are conditional and who knows what the conditions are. On roster, production, availability?
It's NOT a conditional pick.
My 2 cents: I think Toney has more value right now, than if
In comment 15885631 arcarsenal said:
Quote:
In comment 15885620 bw in dc said: Quote:
In comment 15885489 JonC said:
I think we saw that play out when war room video got out.
Judge is smiling and laughing and DG is sulking away, shaking his head.
There was a real rift there.
You could almost palpably feel the lack of preparedness when this played out. Toney felt like a disjointed/panic pick from the very start./////
Yep, and recall Rico's posts indicated some chaos, emotion, and indecisiveness.
The rift, chaos, lack of preparedness and sulking were real, but somehow in the lore of that '21 draft it settled on #21. It's my very firm recall that DG stalking by the camera in war room and shaking his head came immediately after the Ojulari pick was announced. It may have been the hangover from #21, but it occurred at the moment of Ojulari.
the logical question is, what the hell was his problem with NYG?
The whole org was basically revamped from last season to this season, from just below ownership on down to the staff.
If he hated Gettleman or Judge or Garrett, that would make sense to me. But what about this year? If he's caught up in his music career then what does KC provide over here? I'm pretty sure Daboll tried to level with him and connect with him through his music as Daboll likes rap. I would love to know what Toney's problem was specifically with NYG that will be better with KC.
This is what I am dying to know. Because if his hamstrings magically get better now, he'll be an effective weapon there.
Potentially, but I would never feel that's a safe bet to make. I imagine their playbook is complicated and takes work. There's no indication to date that Toney would be willing to put in enough work to master it.
Cent #2 I trust the team's judgment about trading him
On who we are interested in or better yet who we are getting.
No matter what Toney had to go. Anyone here thinking Toney is a loss to the Giants is doing so not on potential but on wishes and dreams. Nothing in Toney's time here showed he could be a big time, consistent player for us. He hardly could practice let alone play...
He gave absolutely nothing here. I don't have any idea went on in the background but he appeared to never really tried.
If, as everyone says is he's more concerned about his record career, it would have been in his best interest to succeed in NY and get all that free publicity. Now he's In KC. Sounds a lot like someone else that was shipped to Cleveland.
Quote:
that being said it DOES put a little heat on them if Toney goes to KC, suits up immediately and starts playing well.
Huh? Wouldn't that say more about Toney dogging it here?
It's like the Giants got good, make the right decision, but some fans hit their heads and are on another planet. Strange stuff.
Why? Toney did nothing here, 2021 or 2022.. What he does elsewhere is irrelevant to what he did or might do here.
If you have a GF or wife and she looks great but is horrible to you, drinks a lot and says stupid shit or is lazy as all hell and then you dump her and she meets someone else and changes her attitude, changes her way of life- did you make a mistake for dumping her?? No..
Maybe Toney grows up a tad and changes how he does stuff.. I think any positive play will be short lived and his true nature will come out again...
Now he’ll get his chance.
I hope his hamstring goes right up to his brain, or facsimile thereof.
Let’s start a depreciation thread for the worthless, person.
Quote:
In comment 15885489 JonC said:
Quote:
Toney was a Judge pick. I think the war room wasn't ready to pivot after AVT was picked by the Jets and Jamin Davis by Wash, and they caved.
I think we saw that play out when war room video got out.
Judge is smiling and laughing and DG is sulking away, shaking his head.
There was a real rift there.
You could almost palpably feel the lack of preparedness when this played out. Toney felt like a disjointed/panic pick from the very start.
Yep, and recall Rico's posts indicated some chaos, emotion, and indecisiveness.
Quote:
that being said it DOES put a little heat on them if Toney goes to KC, suits up immediately and starts playing well.
Why? Toney did nothing here, 2021 or 2022.. What he does elsewhere is irrelevant to what he did or might do here.
If you have a GF or wife and she looks great but is horrible to you, drinks a lot and says stupid shit or is lazy as all hell and then you dump her and she meets someone else and changes her attitude, changes her way of life- did you make a mistake for dumping her?? No..
Maybe Toney grows up a tad and changes how he does stuff.. I think any positive play will be short lived and his true nature will come out again...
If and this is a big IF as he has shown nothing, IF he goes to KC suits up right away and starts producing big for them, there will be some media questioning what the Giants did. I think thats just a reality of the world and comes whenever you trade a high pick 1 year after drafting him.
We did go 6-1 pretty much without him, but just like other injured players on the road to coming back I think he could have made a difference for us.
Unless all of that changes, I doubt he's anything more than a KO returner (or just has a special package for 3rd down WR) for Reid/Mahomes. I doubt Mahomes is going to trust Toney otherwise. unless they are using him just to clear out an area.
I've never forgotten what Jim Fassel (may he RIP) said about football people being Phys. Ed. majors. Nothing overly intellectual about these people.
Quote:
I don't understand how you can have months to prepare for the draft and then get caught flat-footed the way they did.
I've never forgotten what Jim Fassel (may he RIP) said about football people being Phys. Ed. majors. Nothing overly intellectual about these people.
Me neither - I quoted that exact saying to my dad this past weekend, lol.
So the #Giants get that money off their books and pick up 3rd- and 6th-round picks, while KC bets on the upside of the 20th overall pick in the 2021 draft.
Link - ( New Window )
I mean it doesn't get anymore damning than that about this guy's character.
I mean when this guy opens his mouth he just appears even more stupid and spiteful.
lets face it. This guy did not want to be here from the very beginning. One of the worst draft picks ever.
Quote:
In comment 15885728 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
I don't understand how you can have months to prepare for the draft and then get caught flat-footed the way they did.
I've never forgotten what Jim Fassel (may he RIP) said about football people being Phys. Ed. majors. Nothing overly intellectual about these people.
Me neither - I quoted that exact saying to my dad this past weekend, lol.
Haha! It explains why the Bill Belichicks (Economics major and coach's son) and Jimmy Johnsons (psychology major) of the world have been so successful over the years against their competition. Here's another quote I like: "More games are lost than won in the NFL" - I think by Phil Simms
In any case, these guys ain't exactly rocket scientists. Parcells knew that. He had card counting Ray ****ley (who was kicked out of Vegas) manage the clock for him back in the day. These coaches can't seem to get out of their own way more often than not.
Each's reputation as a football ''genius'' has been debunked, if not destroyed, by Jim Fassel. Going into the Giants' game in Arizona today, Fassel's kicker, Matt Bryant, had booted nine field goals in nine attempts so Fassel, the Giants' coach, was asked early last week if he was a genius for having recalled Bryant from the Texas pawnshop where he was working after Fassel had cut him.
''There are no geniuses in our business,'' Fassel said. ''We're all P.E. majors coaching P.E. majors.''
No geniuses? Just older physical education majors coaching younger physical education majors?
Sports of The Times; It's Time to Debunk the Myth of the N.F.L.'s Supposed Geniuses - By Dave Anderson | Sept. 29, 2002 | nytimes.com - ( New Window )
Good riddance to bad rubbish
KC has so many weapons and one of the best QBs in history, it should be pretty easy for him to get open. I don't think he'll be getting the kind of tread he got for the 15 min. of football he played here. I also don't think KC will give him any kind of leeway to be the dumbbell he was here.
I also think he'll give it more effort there. I just get the sense he wanted out as much as we wanted him out. Good riddance.
And hey, worst case scenario: if KC goes to the super bowl against Philly, and he can be a productive weapon against Philly, then we kinda win a little bit? Kinda?
Is it fair to at least speculate that maybe Daboll and Schoen were doubtful about the extent of Kadarius Toney's injury and that maybe they thought he could have suited up?
Or is this just unfair and too speculative to even consider?
Also, Eric, let us know how the traffic spikes today on BBI. Bet it'll be legendary, like when we signed Plaxico in FA several years ago.
How likely is it that KC does indeed get a 3rd Round compensation pick?
Is it a lock because they lost Tyreek Hill?
How likely is it that KC does indeed get a 3rd Round compensation pick?
Is it a lock because they lost Tyreek Hill?
Hill was traded, not a FA signing but that's neither here nor there. The pick is coming to them because Ryan Poles was hired as a GM so it's a lock.
How likely is it that KC does indeed get a 3rd Round compensation pick?
Is it a lock because they lost Tyreek Hill?
They got it for Chicago hiring Ryan Poles.
Ahhh... thanks for info. Very helpful.
Are you two guys willing to take a shot at my highly subjective question?
"Honest question in light of Toney trade... Is it fair to at least speculate that maybe Daboll and Schoen were doubtful about the extent of Kadarius Toney's injury and that maybe they thought he could have suited up? Or is this just unfair and too speculative to even consider?"
He
is
a
dummy
We've all spent a lot of time praising this coaching staff and the culture/environment they are creating. If Toney doesn't fit with that, if he damages that, then he's got to go.
We've got a lot of picks next year, and building this team is the plan
Thats a very bad tat also. Millionaire can't even go to a quality establishment.
lol
No might about it, he's confirmed what I shared.
Is it fair to at least speculate that maybe Daboll and Schoen were doubtful about the extent of Kadarius Toney's injury and that maybe they thought he could have suited up?
Or is this just unfair and too speculative to even consider?
It’s not speculative at all. One of the beat writers (Duggan or Stapleton, I believe) tweeted LAST SEASON that Judge & Co. thought Toney could’ve played the final 2 games and he just said no. It’s not a stretch at all to believe that a new front office and coaching staff got the same feeling about him.
I wouldn’t be remotely surprised if his hamstrings miraculously heal as soon as he gets to KC.
These are conditional and who knows what the conditions are. On roster, production, availability?
Quote:
A 3rd and a 6th is great value for a guy who makes Antonio Brown look locked in. Amazed the Chiefs gave up that much for a 5 cent head no matter the potential
These are conditional and who knows what the conditions are. On roster, production, availability?
They are not conditional.
Why? Doesn't this trade tell you everything you need to know about how Schoen/Daboll felt about Toney's willingness/availability to play?
If they thought he could have provided anything of value, especially with how WR-needy we are, they'd have kept him.
If we don't trade for a WR by the deadline, we're in exactly the same spot as if we'd have kept Toney, except now we have a little more cap space and a couple of extra draft picks.
Second. Punching a Dallas Cowboy helmet was #1. Well never mind, wasn't smart, but a cool image. Yeah. F Dallas.
Quote:
A 3rd and a 6th is great value for a guy who makes Antonio Brown look locked in. Amazed the Chiefs gave up that much for a 5 cent head no matter the potential
These are conditional and who knows what the conditions are. On roster, production, availability?
It's NOT a conditional pick.
Quote:
In comment 15885620 bw in dc said: Quote:
In comment 15885489 JonC said:
I think we saw that play out when war room video got out.
Judge is smiling and laughing and DG is sulking away, shaking his head.
There was a real rift there.
You could almost palpably feel the lack of preparedness when this played out. Toney felt like a disjointed/panic pick from the very start./////
Yep, and recall Rico's posts indicated some chaos, emotion, and indecisiveness.
The rift, chaos, lack of preparedness and sulking were real, but somehow in the lore of that '21 draft it settled on #21. It's my very firm recall that DG stalking by the camera in war room and shaking his head came immediately after the Ojulari pick was announced. It may have been the hangover from #21, but it occurred at the moment of Ojulari.
Me, I m disappointed it didn’t work out for the Giants, he could have been a game changer
Quote:
the logical question is, what the hell was his problem with NYG?
The whole org was basically revamped from last season to this season, from just below ownership on down to the staff.
If he hated Gettleman or Judge or Garrett, that would make sense to me. But what about this year? If he's caught up in his music career then what does KC provide over here? I'm pretty sure Daboll tried to level with him and connect with him through his music as Daboll likes rap. I would love to know what Toney's problem was specifically with NYG that will be better with KC.
This is what I am dying to know. Because if his hamstrings magically get better now, he'll be an effective weapon there.
Potentially, but I would never feel that's a safe bet to make. I imagine their playbook is complicated and takes work. There's no indication to date that Toney would be willing to put in enough work to master it.
No matter what Toney had to go. Anyone here thinking Toney is a loss to the Giants is doing so not on potential but on wishes and dreams. Nothing in Toney's time here showed he could be a big time, consistent player for us. He hardly could practice let alone play...
If, as everyone says is he's more concerned about his record career, it would have been in his best interest to succeed in NY and get all that free publicity. Now he's In KC. Sounds a lot like someone else that was shipped to Cleveland.
Joka has more songs up in Spotify (53) than he has NFL receptions (41). Take that, Giants fans!