Bucky Brooks: Why Giants Need to Re-Sign Jones & Barkley

this level of productivity of course. I agree on Barkley. DJ is too high. I don’t think he commands that on the open market. If we could pick up a real WR and keep Robinson on the field the rest of the year, maybe he can show command of an offense more like what Dabs would like to run. If so, maybe he can up his value.

In comment 15888027 Pepe LePugh said:

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this level of productivity of course. I agree on Barkley. DJ is too high. I don’t think he commands that on the open market. .

I m pretty confident you’re wrong about this

In comment 15888035 joeinpa said:

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In comment 15888027 Pepe LePugh said: Quote: this level of productivity of course. I agree on Barkley. DJ is too high. I don’t think he commands that on the open market. . I m pretty confident you’re wrong about this

Yep. The only thing keeping Jones from a mega deal is the low passing stats

He’s been absolutely money on 3rd (and fourth down) and isn’t turning the ball over. He’s going to get a true starters contract which starts in the 30 million range in 2023.

I wouldn’t be surprised if he signs with us on a 2 year commitment for like 30-35 million a year and works on getting the a mega deal. Sounds ideal for both parties.

In comment 15888027 Pepe LePugh said:

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this level of productivity of course. I agree on Barkley. DJ is too high. I don’t think he commands that on the open market. If we could pick up a real WR and keep Robinson on the field the rest of the year, maybe he can show command of an offense more like what Dabs would like to run. If so, maybe he can up his value.

Just for kicks, name the QBs playing better, smarter, more efficient and more consistent football than Jones. And then compare their receivers to his.

If I have to hear one more time how Rodgers is struggling because he is dealing with new and young receivers I'm going to puke. Every one of his receivers would start for the Giants. And Brady being hurt by a new offensive line. Give him what Jones played with his first three years.

the way he's playing now.

The concern is, that number could go much higher by season's end. If he puts in a full season like he's playing now, he'll be in the MVP hunt and he's going to get PAID.

Luckily for the Giants, they've got the franchise tag if they need it, but they probably don't want to go that route. They will want to lock him up if he proves it.

There is no reason to make this decision now. We can wait to see what the whole year brings. But if it’s a continuation of what we’ve seen the first seven games, it will be pretty obvious this is the right move. And I think both really want to be here. It should be reasonably amenable negotiations.

Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley.

Pretty reasonable.

...Daboll is intentionally holding DJ back in order to keep competitive offers low enough that the transition tag works out for the Giants.





...I kid~

Both players and their agents will demand significantly more than what he is saying. It is ridiculous to think that Barkley and DJ will sign team friendly deals in this day and age. And the right course of action for the Giants is to not get saddled with these massive contracts at this point in the rebuild.

For Barkley, there is simply no way the Giants can let Barkley walk out the door and get nothing in return. So they need to use the franchise tag on him and trade him when he holds out since there is no way he is playing on a franchise tag given his injury history. We should be able to get a package before the trade deadline next year that is at least what Carolina recently got for McCaffrey. There will be teams willing to give him the Zeke Elliott money he will demand. Better to let others get saddled than us.

As for DJ, there is no way he will be worth what his camp will properly demand. The right course of action is to let him walk and get the third round compensatory pick. If it turns out there is no market for him, which will probably be the case, the team can sign him at the Marcus Mariota range for one or two years while they simultaneously begin developing a prospect on a cost controlled rookie contract.

In comment 15888064 The Mike said:

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Both players and their agents will demand significantly more than what he is saying. It is ridiculous to think that Barkley and DJ will sign team friendly deals in this day and age. And the right course of action for the Giants is to not get saddled with these massive contracts at this point in the rebuild. For Barkley, there is simply no way the Giants can let Barkley walk out the door and get nothing in return. So they need to use the franchise tag on him and trade him when he holds out since there is no way he is playing on a franchise tag given his injury history. We should be able to get a package before the trade deadline next year that is at least what Carolina recently got for McCaffrey. There will be teams willing to give him the Zeke Elliott money he will demand. Better to let others get saddled than us. As for DJ, there is no way he will be worth what his camp will properly demand. The right course of action is to let him walk and get the third round compensatory pick. If it turns out there is no market for him, which will probably be the case, the team can sign him at the Marcus Mariota range for one or two years while they simultaneously begin developing a prospect on a cost controlled rookie contract.

Mostly agree with that. Though I think of the two, DJ will be the one who might agree to the hometown discount. Mara has treated him like a son, through thick and thin. I think he's going to appreciate that and also realize Dabes and Kafka will be as 'green' as it gets (meaning grass will NOT be greener anywhere else, and this coaching staff is the only one in this league who can squeeze the most out of him). And yes, given everything we've seen from Schoen so far (Toney, free agency, team building, etc.), I think Barkley is as good as gone, which will be the right move for us.

matters much. It’ll be down to the years and guarantees.

which will probably be the case...."

You're lost.

I assume that's a joke! Half the teams in the league need competent QB play. He is well on his way to proving THAT.
He will get paid, somewhere. I think it highly likely, that a fair contract for both sides will be worked out. I think its likely they will do the same with Barkley (although I wouldn't). BOTH have intangibles that are part of the culture that is building. Schoen and Daboll may make the decision its worth it.

the desire to sign both. Try and get one done during the bye week. Barkley is the one you want to franchise of the two of them. Barkley is also the one you could most easily replace. The Giants are not going to have the capital or draft positioning to get the QB they might want.

In comment 15888123 Dave on the UWS said:

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I assume that's a joke! Half the teams in the league need competent QB play. He is well on his way to proving THAT. He will get paid, somewhere. I think it highly likely, that a fair contract for both sides will be worked out. I think its likely they will do the same with Barkley (although I wouldn't). BOTH have intangibles that are part of the culture that is building. Schoen and Daboll may make the decision its worth it.

If he wins a playoff game, that naturally changes things. Hence the word "probably". But Marcus Mariota won a playoff game and that had no impact on his ultimate market value. So we'll see.

Second, this idea that players are going to give favorable discounts is a myth. Like LW, both DJ and SB will get paid at the market rate and not a cent less. I am simply arguing that at this point of the rebuild, it is a great disadvantage to a team like the Giants to get saddled with massive guaranteed contracts.

I do agree that Schoen and Daboll will have earned the right to make these decisions and then sink or swim with the results. Hoping that decisions regarding personnel are not foisted upon them as has been the case in the past.

than Saquan. He is finally wining, likes the coaches/coordinators, and the offense fits his strengths. Given the first three years he went through I am not sure he wants to go through a big change again if the $$$ is reasonable.

Jones is looking pretty good along with Barkley now that they have some semblance of an Oline which isn’t dominant but adequate
Just goes to show that shines tools don’t do any good if they don’t win in the trenches
Just consider Dallas and how a dominant Oline keeps you in play
Stop thinking anoutrecievers and get the pieces that make out Oline dominant

nah he will take $20 mill who is going to pay him that kind of money? The Giants are winning because of coaching and Barkley. I like Jones but $30 mill per year is a little nuts.

In comment 15888123 Dave on the UWS said:

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I assume that's a joke! Half the teams in the league need competent QB play. He is well on his way to proving THAT. He will get paid, somewhere. I think it highly likely, that a fair contract for both sides will be worked out. I think its likely they will do the same with Barkley (although I wouldn't). BOTH have intangibles that are part of the culture that is building. Schoen and Daboll may make the decision its worth it.

I don't see a market for him either. If we're talking about 2023, maybe Carolina, Washington, Houston, and Tampa would have an interest in acquiring a veteran QB as a starter. At best it won't be more than 5-6 teams interested - but that still doesn't mean any of them would be willing to pay Jones $30+ mil, or even value him over other competent QB's who will become available.

Million isn’t a ton of money for a Starting QB. Not sure if what 10 QBs make but I would be willing to bet 30 million wouldn’t put him in the top 10

On a 4 year deal. Titans already had to restructure Henry.

It all comes down to how team friendly the deals are. If you can reasonably get out of a contract then I don’t see the harm, especially if it is a player that you know can play

$30 million is the starting point for Jones. Guaranteed money is going to be the key.
QB $ from OTC - ( New Window )

then let him get it.. I'll take the third Rd pick in return. he isn't worth that kind of money. I don't see anything he does as special enough to pay a premium. I'd much rather game 15M go to Barkley and use the other 15 million to get better WR or another QB.. He has played good but $30M would really hinder us getting more OL support.. and he isn't anything special.

In comment 15888182 eclipz928 said:

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In comment 15888123 Dave on the UWS said: Quote: I assume that's a joke! Half the teams in the league need competent QB play. He is well on his way to proving THAT. He will get paid, somewhere. I think it highly likely, that a fair contract for both sides will be worked out. I think its likely they will do the same with Barkley (although I wouldn't). BOTH have intangibles that are part of the culture that is building. Schoen and Daboll may make the decision its worth it. I don't see a market for him either. If we're talking about 2023, maybe Carolina, Washington, Houston, and Tampa would have an interest in acquiring a veteran QB as a starter. At best it won't be more than 5-6 teams interested - but that still doesn't mean any of them would be willing to pay Jones $30+ mil, or even value him over other competent QB's who will become available.

Lol, 5-6 teams isn’t a market? All it takes is one, and if there is two or more interested obviously that okays in his favor and drives the price tag up. I’d say if there’s 5-6 teams looking it goes up even higher.

I’m not sure why you’d list a few teams, say maybe 5-6 and think that isn’t a market?

If Daniel Jones cements himself as duel threat, MVP candidate on a playoff team, then the Josh Allen contract is a good barometer.

Allen got 6/250M with 100M fully guaranteed, and 150M guaranteed for injury.

I’m not saying anyone thinks Jones is at Allen’s level. But if he’s one level below, that’s not 30M a year.

But i get they have to create content.
Don't count your chickens yet.

The Athletic's Football Podcast yesterday led with this issue and did fifteen minutes on it. Great listen.

In comment 15888179 mdthedream said:

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nah he will take $20 mill who is going to pay him that kind of money? The Giants are winning because of coaching and Barkley. I like Jones but $30 mill per year is a little nuts.

You might throw in the fact the Giants are winning in spite of having no WRs, a makeshift interior OL, poor interior LB play and a journeyman starting CB.
Either Jones is the real deal and/or Daboll is a magician. I think both.
About a month ago I said Tampa Bay would be hot for Daniel Jones if he hit FA and was laughed at. I also said he'd get a contract worth $100M over three years. Yup, laughed at.
Not so far fetched on either now, huh?

running QB next offseason, but I give Dabes and Kafka all the credit for getting the most out of DJ and letting him develop in a system that take advantage of his legs. Looking at the OverTheCap, there seems to be a big drop off from low end starting QBs making $30-35M/year (Cousins, Tannehill, Goff, Ryan) and the top end of the back-up QB range making $10-15M/year (Mayfield, Trubisky, Winston). It only takes one team to be interested in D for his "market value" to increase, so what teams have the cap space in 2023, will not have a high draft pick and have an offense geared towards a running type QB?

Baltimore might be interested if they can't get long term deal done with Lamar.

49ers might take a look if they don't think Lance can recover and improve by next year.

I could see a world where DJ gets to $30M/year, but I do not think Giants should give him the tag because that is fully guaranteed money and does not improve the team's negotiating leverage. I think the Giants should let him test the market and then either match it or offer him a shorter deal that lets him get to 3rd contract sooner than the other competing offer.

Giants should just tag Barkley. He can complain about it but there is no leverage for RBs after the Lev Bell hold out.

We seem to be on a collision course, assuming Jones's production stays consistent through the year, for that age old debate:

Is Jones really a good QB regardless of the system or is he a system QB?

Yesterday on Chris Russo's show, Mike Lombardi said Daboll has developed a system where Jones is basically a wing T QB who can make some throws. Suggesting, of course, that it's the system more than Jones.

In comment 15888206 Go Terps said:

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The Athletic's Football Podcast yesterday led with this issue and did fifteen minutes on it. Great listen.

Was it the game preview one?

In comment 15888059 M.S. said:

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Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley.

This is the real question.

In comment 15888220 bw in dc said:

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We seem to be on a collision course, assuming Jones's production stays consistent through the year, for that age old debate: Is Jones really a good QB regardless of the system or is he a system QB? Yesterday on Chris Russo's show, Mike Lombardi said Daboll has developed a system where Jones is basically a wing T QB who can make some throws. Suggesting, of course, that it's the system more than Jones.

People are going to kill this because it’s Lombardi, but it’s a situation that can’t be ignored when deciding what his value is. We simply don’t know how much of that is what Daboll perceives as Jones’ weaknesses in addition to the lack of WRS. Is it 50-50? 70-30? Only a handful of people really know.

In comment 15888189 ajr2456 said:

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On a 4 year deal. Titans already had to restructure Henry.

Call that what it is - a dumb idea. I don't think I'd ever sign a RB for more than one year. Too many teams pay RBs for services rendered.

In comment 15888229 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15888189 ajr2456 said: Quote: On a 4 year deal. Titans already had to restructure Henry. Call that what it is - a dumb idea. I don't think I'd ever sign a RB for more than one year. Too many teams pay RBs for services rendered.

I think a two year $30 million deal is fine. This way if you need to restructure it’s going into year three where he’s likely still productive, instead of year 5 and 6.

In comment 15888222 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 15888206 Go Terps said: Quote: The Athletic's Football Podcast yesterday led with this issue and did fifteen minutes on it. Great listen. Was it the game preview one?

Link below. They said what I've been saying: what would Jones be doing at $30M that Taylor couldn't at $6M?

They also said this QB class is very much in the eye of the beholder. Just because they won't be drafting top ten doesn't mean they won't get a shot at one. And they pointed out that the Buffalo 2017-2018 seasons could be instructive as to what they do now.

People are caught up in the fun right now and that's fine, but $30M for Daniel Jones is an absurdity.
Link - ( New Window )

is that the 2023 QB is just two prizes - Stroud and Young.

There is a good amount of quality.

In comment 15888249 bw in dc said:

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is that the 2023 QB is just two prizes - Stroud and Young. There is a good amount of quality.

There is. And if they can't get one in this draft, the next draft has some good ones too. Taylor was signed to give them that option.

The original plan was intelligent and sound.

In comment 15888059 M.S. said:

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Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley.

Barkley? 100%.
Jones? Not so much.

In comment 15888264 islander1 said:

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In comment 15888059 M.S. said: Quote: Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley. Barkley? 100%. Jones? Not so much.

Why wouldn’t Jones have to prove he can stay healthy before handing him $150 million?

I can't believe Schoen would do that.

In comment 15888249 bw in dc said:

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There is a good amount of quality.

This was said last year at this time as well. How did that work out?

In comment 15888278 GNewGiants said:

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In comment 15888249 bw in dc said: Quote: There is a good amount of quality. This was said last year at this time as well. How did that work out?

Time will tell, but so far incomplete.

So, what's your point?

In comment 15888286 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15888278 GNewGiants said: Quote: In comment 15888249 bw in dc said: Quote: There is a good amount of quality. This was said last year at this time as well. How did that work out? Time will tell, but so far incomplete. So, what's your point?

That we don’t know if there is quality. This years class, sure, deserves an incomplete but Pickett has been the only one to play and he hasn’t looked great. Willis, Howell, Ridder maybe 2-3 years away.

If Jones proves it this year, can't complain about paying him.

In comment 15888288 GNewGiants said:

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In comment 15888286 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15888278 GNewGiants said: Quote: In comment 15888249 bw in dc said: Quote: There is a good amount of quality. This was said last year at this time as well. How did that work out? Time will tell, but so far incomplete. So, what's your point? That we don’t know if there is quality. This years class, sure, deserves an incomplete but Pickett has been the only one to play and he hasn’t looked great. Willis, Howell, Ridder maybe 2-3 years away.

You never know what draft picks will be quality regardless of the position. Teams still make draft picks.

In comment 15888244 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15888222 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 15888206 Go Terps said: Quote: The Athletic's Football Podcast yesterday led with this issue and did fifteen minutes on it. Great listen. Was it the game preview one? Link below. They said what I've been saying: what would Jones be doing at $30M that Taylor couldn't at $6M? They also said this QB class is very much in the eye of the beholder. Just because they won't be drafting top ten doesn't mean they won't get a shot at one. And they pointed out that the Buffalo 2017-2018 seasons could be instructive as to what they do now. People are caught up in the fun right now and that's fine, but $30M for Daniel Jones is an absurdity. Link - ( New Window )

That was a great listen and how I feel about this. The fact that people on this board are throwing out the word elite or are saying Jones will be in the MVP discussion if he keeps playing like he has the last 3 games are out of their mind. The Giants are 6-1 mainly because they are 5th in PPG allowed on defense and Barkley, not Jones, is in the MVP discussion.

The best use of the franchise tag this offseason is on Barkley. If someone is willing to throw 30-40 million a year at Jones they can have him.

...think 30m a yr is a lot of money, and in 3-4 years its not even going to be 10% of the salary cap.

Im down for 3/105 or 4/140. But if the new gm and coach decide he's worth more then I support it. They are the experts

If they think Jones is taking less than 30 per, when the Tag is above 30, and half of the QBs in the league make 30+ a year.

More moronic thinking is some kind of discount. One guy was not given an extension and was told this was a prove it year. Well he proved it and will go get his money elsewhere.

Second guy was refused a 5th year and also told to prove it. They owe allegiance to no one here, and there will be plenty of teams willing to pay them.

I'd have no problem with 2/60. The problem is the same one that it has always been for me though, I'm afraid whatever his production is we will be overpaying for it.

I've always liked the idea of saying we really like you but it is hard to determine your market with the injuries, we aren't going to tag you to ensure you will get the offers you deserve. Please just bring us the offer before you sign and we won't tag you

Especially the comparison to the Eagles/Bills and it being about the process not the results.

But I think the most important point they made was that the expected win/loss is 4-3, and not letting a couple of good bounces cloud your decisions. If we were 4-3 there wouldn’t be any talk of giving Jones $30 million.

You try your best to come with a number that is an “acceptable” overpay if that what is worrisome and live with it.

Stop saying you would sign him for these stupid contracts. Look at the league and the lack of good QB play.

No discounts, no imaginary 2 year contracts that a retiring QB would take.

In comment 15888261 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15888249 bw in dc said: Quote: is that the 2023 QB is just two prizes - Stroud and Young. There is a good amount of quality. There is. And if they can't get one in this draft, the next draft has some good ones too. Taylor was signed to give them that option. The original plan was intelligent and sound.

Yeah, Caleb Williams and Ewers are the jewels right now for 2024.

Before I moved, I was looking at Gonzaga HS for my son to attend. That's where Caleb Williams played. I saw him play several times. JFC, what a talent he was/is. If he was eligible this year, he'd go #1.

I think the original plan is in flux. There is no way Schoen and Daboll saw this coming...

In comment 15888328 Giants73 said:

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Stop saying you would sign him for these stupid contracts. Look at the league and the lack of good QB play. No discounts, no imaginary 2 year contracts that a retiring QB would take.

Nobody is saying he’d sign a two year deal, NGD said that’s what he would be comfortable paying at the moment. Go back to kindergarten and learn basic reading skills.

In comment 15888336 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 15888328 Giants73 said: Quote: Stop saying you would sign him for these stupid contracts. Look at the league and the lack of good QB play. No discounts, no imaginary 2 year contracts that a retiring QB would take. Nobody is saying he’d sign a two year deal, NGD said that’s what he would be comfortable paying at the moment. Go back to kindergarten and learn basic reading skills.

you are the most moronic troll on the board. Never add any value, make bullshit up to fit your narrative. Have mom bring your lunch down to the basement and STFU.

.

You see this is problem I am having with you. Let's set your opinion to the side for minute. You come on to this thread and start ranting and raving and making multiple posts in crescendo, dominating the thread like a lunatic. This is what I think you need to tone down, because if I keep seeing you behave this way then you will be put on a time out.

the giants could essentially guarantee him 2 tags at once, with incentives that could escalate those salaries higher than the tags. they'd of course have to put in some kind of provision taking the tag off the table 2 years down the road.

both sides would have some security and less acrimony than the tag, while presumably working towards an extension if things going well.

remember the giants already have him for roughly 2 years 75m if they want him. locking that in ahead of time is possibly a convenient move for both sides - and for jones a way to get upside beyond the tags.

i dont think it's the most likely scenario but it's a possibility.

In comment 15888244 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15888222 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 15888206 Go Terps said: Quote: The Athletic's Football Podcast yesterday led with this issue and did fifteen minutes on it. Great listen. Was it the game preview one? Link below. They said what I've been saying: what would Jones be doing at $30M that Taylor couldn't at $6M? They also said this QB class is very much in the eye of the beholder. Just because they won't be drafting top ten doesn't mean they won't get a shot at one. And they pointed out that the Buffalo 2017-2018 seasons could be instructive as to what they do now. People are caught up in the fun right now and that's fine, but $30M for Daniel Jones is an absurdity. Link - ( New Window )

Great post Terps. Interesting listen.

In comment 15888525 gidiefor said:

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You see this is problem I am having with you. Let's set your opinion to the side for minute. You come on to this thread and start ranting and raving and making multiple posts in crescendo, dominating the thread like a lunatic. This is what I think you need to tone down, because if I keep seeing you behave this way then you will be put on a time out.

I disagree with Terps much of the time, but what is he really doing here other than state his POV?

Maybe I just missed it.

In comment 15888532 ChrisRick said:

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In comment 15888525 gidiefor said: Quote: You see this is problem I am having with you. Let's set your opinion to the side for minute. You come on to this thread and start ranting and raving and making multiple posts in crescendo, dominating the thread like a lunatic. This is what I think you need to tone down, because if I keep seeing you behave this way then you will be put on a time out. I disagree with Terps much of the time, but what is he really doing here other than state his POV? Maybe I just missed it.

It's more like asserting it than stating it if you ask me -- I get a lot of complaints about it -- like he has to take up so much bandwith and fury to discourage dissent

In comment 15888538 gidiefor said:

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It's more like asserting it than stating it if you ask me -- I get a lot of complaints about it -- like he has to take up so much bandwith and fury to discourage dissent

With all due respect, you need to re-read GT's posts above. They are pretty benign. And the link to The Athletic is a terrific...

2019-2021 Daniel Jones gave equal good, bad, and inconsistent signals. In 2022 Daniel Jones is giving mostly good.

Before the Giants commit long term, I want Jones to show this consistency and durability over two seasons. I bet that’s what Schoen wants too. I’m personally not convinced the real factor here isn’t Daboll. And if that’s true, does he need a 40M guy to make his offense go?

Jones conceivably could have made 22M next year. Good for him if he earns his way to 31.5M, and the opportunity to show beyond any doubt he’s the real deal.

.

In comment 15888558 bw in dc said:

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In comment 15888538 gidiefor said: Quote: It's more like asserting it than stating it if you ask me -- I get a lot of complaints about it -- like he has to take up so much bandwith and fury to discourage dissent With all due respect, you need to re-read GT's posts above. They are pretty benign. And the link to The Athletic is a terrific...

benign? Benign is laying our your argument in a thoughtful manner -- it not: here take this -- :there, take this - :here, take with multiple posts. He isn't even responding to other posters. He is lashing out making multiple posts to make a point as opposed to laying out a thoughtful argument and responding to others discussion style.

please don't confuse making good points with a disturbing pattern of posting. Being right, or having a point, does not excuse a pattern of trolling

In comment 15888564 christian said:

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2019-2021 Daniel Jones gave equal good, bad, and inconsistent signals. In 2022 Daniel Jones is giving mostly good. Before the Giants commit long term, I want Jones to show this consistency and durability over two seasons. I bet that’s what Schoen wants too. I’m personally not convinced the real factor here isn’t Daboll. And if that’s true, does he need a 40M guy to make his offense go? Jones conceivably could have made 22M next year. Good for him if he earns his way to 31.5M, and the opportunity to show beyond any doubt he’s the real deal.

part of me thinks by the end of the year daboll should know one way or the other whether he's the guy he wants to go all in with or not.

playing out the scenario where daboll is sold, then the question is what is the number and what's the best strategy?

at that point it becomes a balance between what the long term price will be if he's right (46m+ aav), the discount at the first year tag amount (31m), and whether or not there's a number in between both sides are willing to do (like say 6 years $210m at 35m AAV).

if they aren't sold on him then there probably won't be any extension talk, if they are, is it worth the risk to try to get him at 35-38 over several years? or do they roll the dice happy to pay 25% more (46+) if he justifies it in 2023? everything we've seen from daboll makes me think he'll go for it either way (extending at a number with upside for it to be team friendly or staying on the tag + finding an heir apparent in draft).

Get on in this thread. He didn’t even do what you’re accusing him of.

About a podcast that had a counter opinion.
The link to said podcast.
A comment about how the 23 QB class has players.


What am I missing here?

Schoen had no problem taking the potentially more expensive route (franchise tender) when he had a cheaper option to lock Jones in (5th year).

In short, I think he’s willing to pay more to be sure. I bet he does it again.

I don’t think the Giants offer Jones a long term commitment.

I think if you’re not sold you probably have to roll the dice on the tag, and if you end up paying more on an extension later on because he plays even better, it is what it is.

Giving him a multi year deal at $30+ mill to try to save money if you aren’t sure about him is how the Rams had to move a 1st to dump Goffs deal. That being said if the deal was structured where all the guaranteed money was on the first two years and years three and four were easy to get out off, it could make sense.

In comment 15888581 ajr2456 said:

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About a podcast that had a counter opinion. The link to said podcast. A comment about how the 23 QB class has players. What am I missing here?

If you say so, I count a lot more posts than that. but if you all are happy, great

In comment 15888592 gidiefor said:

Quote:

In comment 15888581 ajr2456 said: Quote: About a podcast that had a counter opinion. The link to said podcast. A comment about how the 23 QB class has players. What am I missing here? If you say so, I count a lot more posts than that. but if you all are happy, great

Sorry one other post on this thread from him saying he doesn’t think Schoen would give him $150 million.

but Terps has driven solid posters away from posting on this site. I respect the posters who have shared their opinions with me on this thread which is why I have discussed this. Sorry but this thread is being derailed now so I will end this discussion. Hope you understand.

raving - strange post.

In comment 15888608 gidiefor said:

Quote:

but Terps has driven solid posters away from posting on this site. I respect the posters who have shared their opinions with me on this thread which is why I have discussed this. Sorry but this thread is being derailed now so I will end this discussion. Hope you understand.

Who?

1. Aaron Rodgers (Packers): $50.3 million (3-year, $150.8 million contract)
2. Russell Wilson (Broncos): $49 million (5-year, $245 million contract)
3. Kyler Murray (Cardinals): $46.1 million (5-year, $230.5 million contract)
4. Deshaun Watson (Browns): $46 million (5-year $230 million contract)
5. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs): $45 million (10-year $450 million contract)
6. Josh Allen (Bills): $43 million (6-year $258 million contract)
7. Derek Carr (Raiders): $40.47 million (3-year, $121.4 million contract)
T-8. Dak Prescott (Cowboys): $40 million (4-year, $160 million contract)
T-8. Matt Stafford (Rams): $40 million (4-year $160 million contract)
T-10. Kirk Cousins (Vikings): $35 million (1-year $35 million contract)
11. Jared Goff (Lions): $33.5 million (4-year $134 million contract)
12. Carson Wentz (Commanders): $32 million ($4-year 128 million contract)
13. Matt Ryan (Colts): $30 million (5-year $150 million contract)
14. Ryan Tannehill (Titans): $29.5 million (4-year $118 million contract)
15. Jimmy Garoppolo (49ers): $27.5 million (5-year $137.5 million contract)
16. Tom Brady (Buccaneers): $25 million (1-year contract)
17. Jameis Winston (Saints): $14 million (2-year $28 million contract)
18. Marcus Mariota (Falcons): $9.375 million (2-year $18.75 million contract)
19. Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars): $9.19 million (4-year $36.79 million contract)
20. Joe Burrow (Bengals): $9.04 million (4-year $36.19 million contract)

Jimmy G, Wentz, Goff and Tannehill are all in the $27M - $33M per year range. If DJ continues his play this year, he's definitely worth that level.

In comment 15888587 ajr2456 said:

Quote:

I think if you’re not sold you probably have to roll the dice on the tag, and if you end up paying more on an extension later on because he plays even better, it is what it is. Giving him a multi year deal at $30+ mill to try to save money if you aren’t sure about him is how the Rams had to move a 1st to dump Goffs deal. That being said if the deal was structured where all the guaranteed money was on the first two years and years three and four were easy to get out off, it could make sense.

if they arent sold then they 100% tag. like i said there's no point in any extension talks in that scenario.

if they are sold is the question because there may be a window to get a somewhat reasonable extension (let's call that anything under kyler). the ravens are obviously sold on lamar but they are still doing the tag dance - so there are reasons to slow play things when time is on your side since you can tag twice. so even if the nyg are sold they may want the 1 year at 31m since that would likely be lower then the extension aav, the risk is it could take 35 --> 45 or more a year later (which is 1 less 10m player per year for every year of the deal). but if jones finishes strong anything under 40 may already be a pipe dream.

In comment 15888643 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

if they arent sold then they 100% tag. like i said there's no point in any extension talks in that scenario.

Unless Jones goes Mahomes the second half of the season, I would only consider two options:

(1) Tag and make him prove it again.
(2) Let him walk and thank him for his time.

And that because for (1), it's really hard to discern how much is Jones and how much is system. To be fair, it's probably 60/40 - Jones right now. Which, for me, isn't compelling enough for a long term deal.

Came here and told EVERYONE that they are trying to build something special here and asked if they wanted to be a part of it. I’m sure that was the discussion with the coaching staff, the carry over players and anyone they signed in the off season and throughout the first 7 weeks. Why is this relevant? Only because Daboll is putting his money where is mouth is. At 6-1, anyone who actually bought into the vision is fully committed. I can’t imagine this organization having a hard time negotiating deals to keep whoever they want to. Whatever they decide to do, as a fan, I am 100% happy with it. I trust the organization. Whatever will be, will be

In comment 15888651 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15888643 Eric on Li said: Quote: if they arent sold then they 100% tag. like i said there's no point in any extension talks in that scenario. Unless Jones goes Mahomes the second half of the season, I would only consider two options: (1) Tag and make him prove it again. (2) Let him walk and thank him for his time. And that because for (1), it's really hard to discern how much is Jones and how much is system. To be fair, it's probably 60/40 - Jones right now. Which, for me, isn't compelling enough for a long term deal.

i think that's likely true of anyone on the outside (you or me included). unless it's obvious there's no downside to the tag.

i dont think that's going to be true for daboll though. good or bad i would guess with a full year he will have enough to know whether he thinks jones is his guy or not.

In comment 15888653 ZoneXDOA said:

Quote:

Came here and told EVERYONE that they are trying to build something special here and asked if they wanted to be a part of it. I’m sure that was the discussion with the coaching staff, the carry over players and anyone they signed in the off season and throughout the first 7 weeks. Why is this relevant? Only because Daboll is putting his money where is mouth is. At 6-1, anyone who actually bought into the vision is fully committed. I can’t imagine this organization having a hard time negotiating deals to keep whoever they want to. Whatever they decide to do, as a fan, I am 100% happy with it. I trust the organization. Whatever will be, will be

they've not only earned it, they're the ones whose jobs are on it either way.

In comment 15888625 Go Terps said:

Quote:

In comment 15888608 gidiefor said: Quote: but Terps has driven solid posters away from posting on this site. I respect the posters who have shared their opinions with me on this thread which is why I have discussed this. Sorry but this thread is being derailed now so I will end this discussion. Hope you understand. Who?

Yes, who?

In comment 15888035 joeinpa said:

Quote:

In comment 15888027 Pepe LePugh said: Quote: this level of productivity of course. I agree on Barkley. DJ is too high. I don’t think he commands that on the open market. . I m pretty confident you’re wrong about this

Yeah, he's absolutely gonna cost 30 mil a year

In comment 15888059 M.S. said:

Quote:

Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley.

Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Which is why this contract talk is pretty dumb. If either one of them got hurt as they have in the past then why would anyone in their right mind give them a big contract for extended years?

Posters that hate his game like Debaser, Go Terps, BW, Producer and Gatorade and others could still be right.

Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late.

In comment 15888122 mittenedman said:

Quote:

which will probably be the case...." You're lost.

If he’s not trolling, lost is a kind diagnoses.

In comment 15888677 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 15888059 M.S. said: Quote: Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is why this contract talk is pretty dumb. If either one of them got hurt as they have in the past then why would anyone in their right mind give them a big contract for extended years? Posters that hate his game like Debaser, Go Terps, BW, Producer and Gatorade and others could still be right. Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late.

So those posters are hoping he is going to get hurt? Every player in the league could get hurt on their next play...

Many great players have gotten hurt. Tom Brady missed a year. Our own LT did too. Injuries happen. The determining factor will be if the FO thinks he is a top player. If they do they will pay him.

In comment 15888686 KJBBQ said:

Quote:

In comment 15888677 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888059 M.S. said: Quote: Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is why this contract talk is pretty dumb. If either one of them got hurt as they have in the past then why would anyone in their right mind give them a big contract for extended years? Posters that hate his game like Debaser, Go Terps, BW, Producer and Gatorade and others could still be right. Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late. So those posters are hoping he is going to get hurt? Every player in the league could get hurt on their next play... Many great players have gotten hurt. Tom Brady missed a year. Our own LT did too. Injuries happen. The determining factor will be if the FO thinks he is a top player. If they do they will pay him.

Hoping? Where did you get that from my post? Where did I say they are hoping he gets hurt?

And you have taken my post and then decided to draw a comparison between Brady who got hurt how many years in his career vs Jones and Barkley who have been hurt for most of their years and felt that this was a valid comparison?

Seriously?

In comment 15888270 Go Terps said:

Quote:

I can't believe Schoen would do that.

No chance! If they pay $30 million it will be the franchise tag (one year). At some point, career numbers have to matter, and DJs are terrible. If he won't sign a team friendly deal, I think they let him walk.

I would definitely resign Saquon for $12 million a year. This team is not good without him.

In comment 15888677 giantstock said:

Quote:

Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late.

Jesus fucking Christ! This “almost” shit has to stop….

Eli “almost” threw TWO picks on the final drive in 42. But, he didn’t. And neither did Jones. Period. Full stop.

But if you’re so agenda driven that you’re trying to ding Jones for shit that didn’t happen, then he should get “credit” for good plays that didn’t happen - dropped passes, dropped touchdown passes, etc. nor should he get dinged for picks that are the result of a tipped pass from the receiver (cough, cough - Evan engram - cough, cough).

🤷🏻‍♂️

In comment 15888328 Giants73 said:

Quote:

Stop saying you would sign him for these stupid contracts. Look at the league and the lack of good QB play. No discounts, no imaginary 2 year contracts that a retiring QB would take.

If they want to keep him...they don't need a multi-year deal. Just tag him.

His career stats are terrible...even this years stats are average (31st in passing?) I just don't see him getting anything near $30 million if he wants to stay.

In comment 15888329 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15888261 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 15888249 bw in dc said: Quote: is that the 2023 QB is just two prizes - Stroud and Young. There is a good amount of quality. There is. And if they can't get one in this draft, the next draft has some good ones too. Taylor was signed to give them that option. The original plan was intelligent and sound. Yeah, Caleb Williams and Ewers are the jewels right now for 2024. Before I moved, I was looking at Gonzaga HS for my son to attend. That's where Caleb Williams played. I saw him play several times. JFC, what a talent he was/is. If he was eligible this year, he'd go #1. I think the original plan is in flux. There is no way Schoen and Daboll saw this coming...

Williams and Ewers aren't even in the same ballpark. Williams is 10X the prospect of Ewers.

In comment 15888651 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15888643 Eric on Li said: Quote: if they arent sold then they 100% tag. like i said there's no point in any extension talks in that scenario. Unless Jones goes Mahomes the second half of the season, I would only consider two options: (1) Tag and make him prove it again. (2) Let him walk and thank him for his time. And that because for (1), it's really hard to discern how much is Jones and how much is system. To be fair, it's probably 60/40 - Jones right now. Which, for me, isn't compelling enough for a long term deal.

LOL. 60/40??

Jones has earned the tag at this point. Anything longer? Wait and see. But it’s much more than 60/40 Jones. Much more.

Are going to be disappointed when Jones gets paid. Hopefully they leave the site.

In comment 15888697 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 15888677 giantstock said: Quote: Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late. Jesus fucking Christ! This “almost” shit has to stop…. Eli “almost” threw TWO picks on the final drive in 42. But, he didn’t. And neither did Jones. Period. Full stop. But if you’re so agenda driven that you’re trying to ding Jones for shit that didn’t happen, then he should get “credit” for good plays that didn’t happen - dropped passes, dropped touchdown passes, etc. nor should he get dinged for picks that are the result of a tipped pass from the receiver (cough, cough - Evan engram - cough, cough). 🤷🏻‍♂️

I don't bury my head in the sand like some of you do.

Posters like you are similar to those that have bashed Jones.

Their issue has been to disagree with what SY said, not confront him, which is all fine - but then bash other posters on other threads (as you're doing to me) even though I'm sort of referring to some extent what SY has said. You're doing the same freaking thing. Read what SY said in lats sentence. He is mentioning a concern with Jones, is he not????????????????????


https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/10/25/game-review-new-york-giants-23-jacksonville-jaguars-17/

The most important stat from Jones came on the ground. He ran for 107 yards on 11 carries and added another touchdown. It was his first ever 100+ yard performance and he is third to only Lamar Jackson and Justin Fields in rushing by a quarterback this season. Jones has 1,343 yards on the ground so far in his career. Eli Manning had under 600 over his career. The contrast in offensive style and possibilities with an athlete like this under center should not be overlooked when evaluating his play. Jones put this team on his shoulder and delivered. He had multiple passes dropped, including a touchdown. Game ball for a guy who stepped up the most when his team needed him the most. If you are looking for a negative, he did have two turnovers cancelled by JAC penalties that did not exactly impact the original result of the play.

In comment 15888702 speedywheels said:

Quote:

In comment 15888651 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15888643 Eric on Li said: Quote: if they arent sold then they 100% tag. like i said there's no point in any extension talks in that scenario. Unless Jones goes Mahomes the second half of the season, I would only consider two options: (1) Tag and make him prove it again. (2) Let him walk and thank him for his time. And that because for (1), it's really hard to discern how much is Jones and how much is system. To be fair, it's probably 60/40 - Jones right now. Which, for me, isn't compelling enough for a long term deal. LOL. 60/40?? Jones has earned the tag at this point. Anything longer? Wait and see. But it’s much more than 60/40 Jones. Much more.

$30 million for...

23rd in passing yards
29th in YPA
30th with 174.7 passing yards per game
21st in pass TDs (6)
49 yards per game rushing
9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?)

Really? Sorry, when a team and an agent negotiate, stats matter.

In comment 15888677 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 15888059 M.S. said: Quote: Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is why this contract talk is pretty dumb. If either one of them got hurt as they have in the past then why would anyone in their right mind give them a big contract for extended years? Posters that hate his game like Debaser, Go Terps, BW, Producer and Gatorade and others could still be right. Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late.

If you are taking about the jag game interception that got called back..... Jones actually made the right read on that.... linebacker made a great play. Just shows you don't know what you are looking at.

In comment 15888701 GMen72 said:

Quote:

Williams and Ewers aren't even in the same ballpark. Williams is 10X the prospect of Ewers.

I wasn't suggesting they were equals. Williams is clearly the better player right now. But Ewers has some excellent physical tools.

In comment 15888718 bw in dc said:

Quote:

In comment 15888701 GMen72 said: Quote: Williams and Ewers aren't even in the same ballpark. Williams is 10X the prospect of Ewers. I wasn't suggesting they were equals. Williams is clearly the better player right now. But Ewers has some excellent physical tools.

Agree...but Ewers doesn't have William's arm strength and isn't near the athlete. Like you said, Williams could be special.

In comment 15888725 GMen72 said:

Quote:

Agree...but Ewers doesn't have William's arm strength and isn't near the athlete. Like you said, Williams could be special.

Have you seen Drake Maye of UNC play? Freshman. Was committed to Bama but backed out and chose UNC (from Carolina).

Kid is really fun to watch - can really spin and move.

Maye is having an incredible freshman campaign.

In comment 15888714 KJBBQ said:

Quote:

In comment 15888677 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888059 M.S. said: Quote: Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is why this contract talk is pretty dumb. If either one of them got hurt as they have in the past then why would anyone in their right mind give them a big contract for extended years? Posters that hate his game like Debaser, Go Terps, BW, Producer and Gatorade and others could still be right. Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late. If you are taking about the jag game interception that got called back..... Jones actually made the right read on that.... linebacker made a great play. Just shows you don't know what you are looking at.

Let's see do we listen to a pro scout or a moron like you that misquotes what I say previously to fit your narrative?

God, idiots like you that pretend like you know what you're talking about are just as bad as the dopes that used to balst Jones all the time.

https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/10/25/game-review-new-york-giants-23-jacksonville-jaguars-17/

The most important stat from Jones came on the ground. He ran for 107 yards on 11 carries and added another touchdown. It was his first ever 100+ yard performance and he is third to only Lamar Jackson and Justin Fields in rushing by a quarterback this season. Jones has 1,343 yards on the ground so far in his career. Eli Manning had under 600 over his career. The contrast in offensive style and possibilities with an athlete like this under center should not be overlooked when evaluating his play. Jones put this team on his shoulder and delivered. He had multiple passes dropped, including a touchdown. Game ball for a guy who stepped up the most when his team needed him the most. If you are looking for a negative, he did have two turnovers cancelled by JAC penalties that did not exactly impact the original result of the play.

In comment 15888711 GMen72 said:

Quote:

In comment 15888702 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 15888651 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15888643 Eric on Li said: Quote: if they arent sold then they 100% tag. like i said there's no point in any extension talks in that scenario. Unless Jones goes Mahomes the second half of the season, I would only consider two options: (1) Tag and make him prove it again. (2) Let him walk and thank him for his time. And that because for (1), it's really hard to discern how much is Jones and how much is system. To be fair, it's probably 60/40 - Jones right now. Which, for me, isn't compelling enough for a long term deal. LOL. 60/40?? Jones has earned the tag at this point. Anything longer? Wait and see. But it’s much more than 60/40 Jones. Much more. $30 million for... 23rd in passing yards 29th in YPA 30th with 174.7 passing yards per game 21st in pass TDs (6) 49 yards per game rushing 9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?) Really? Sorry, when a team and an agent negotiate, stats matter.

You forgot the 6-1 stat, 5 4th Q 80 yrd drives, etc, etc. Lots of stats to pick and chose from.

In comment 15888737 stoneman said:

Quote:

In comment 15888711 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888702 speedywheels said: Quote: In comment 15888651 bw in dc said: Quote: In comment 15888643 Eric on Li said: Quote: if they arent sold then they 100% tag. like i said there's no point in any extension talks in that scenario. Unless Jones goes Mahomes the second half of the season, I would only consider two options: (1) Tag and make him prove it again. (2) Let him walk and thank him for his time. And that because for (1), it's really hard to discern how much is Jones and how much is system. To be fair, it's probably 60/40 - Jones right now. Which, for me, isn't compelling enough for a long term deal. LOL. 60/40?? Jones has earned the tag at this point. Anything longer? Wait and see. But it’s much more than 60/40 Jones. Much more. $30 million for... 23rd in passing yards 29th in YPA 30th with 174.7 passing yards per game 21st in pass TDs (6) 49 yards per game rushing 9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?) Really? Sorry, when a team and an agent negotiate, stats matter. You forgot the 6-1 stat, 5 4th Q 80 yrd drives, etc, etc. Lots of stats to pick and chose from.

This HC and front office (all from Buffalo) know what a real $30 million+ QB looks like and what his stats should look like. They've taken a QB that sucked and made him above average/good. I'd imagine they'll look for a QB that isn't dependent on a great defense and running game to win games.

In comment 15888740 GMen72 said:

Quote:

In comment 15888737 stoneman said: Quote: This HC and front office (all from Buffalo) know what a real $30 million+ QB looks like and what his stats should look like. They've taken a QB that sucked and made him above average/good. I'd imagine they'll look for a QB that isn't dependent on a great defense and running game to win games.

Just wow. We have one idiot making ignorant comments on the Jax game trying to in some way protect Jones that you make a similar stupid commennt about run and defense.

Just wow.
e
We can only pray and imagine that you could stop pretending like you know what you're talking about and just listen and maybe you can learn something.

How dare Jones help his team win using his legs!!!

And teams that run and play great defense such, huh? Such as the 49ers?

Winning doesn't matter to you clowns. It must be EXACTLY how you want.

In comment 15888743 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 15888740 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888737 stoneman said: Quote: This HC and front office (all from Buffalo) know what a real $30 million+ QB looks like and what his stats should look like. They've taken a QB that sucked and made him above average/good. I'd imagine they'll look for a QB that isn't dependent on a great defense and running game to win games. Just wow. We have one idiot making ignorant comments on the Jax game trying to in some way protect Jones that you make a similar stupid commennt about run and defense. Just wow. e We can only pray and imagine that you could stop pretending like you know what you're talking about and just listen and maybe you can learn something. How dare Jones help his team win using his legs!!! And teams that run and play great defense such, huh? Such as the 49ers? Winning doesn't matter to you clowns. It must be EXACTLY how you want.

Why'd you erase his stats? I put rushing yards on there. Didn't help your argument? Let me repost them...

23rd in passing yards
29th in YPA
30th with 174.7 passing yards per game
21st in pass TDs (6)
49 yards per game rushing
9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?)

Winning always matters. Overpaying a QB that is in the bottom 1/3rd of every major QB stat will quickly turn a winner into a loser.

In comment 15888743 giantstock said:

Quote:

In comment 15888740 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888737 stoneman said: Quote: This HC and front office (all from Buffalo) know what a real $30 million+ QB looks like and what his stats should look like. They've taken a QB that sucked and made him above average/good. I'd imagine they'll look for a QB that isn't dependent on a great defense and running game to win games. Just wow. Winning doesn't matter to you clowns. It must be EXACTLY how you want.

One more thing...the combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %). So, we're squeaking out wins against a shitty schedule with a QB that is in the bottom 1/3rd of every major QB statistic. You really don't think that will give the Giants front office something to think about.

One more time....

23rd in passing yards
29th in YPA
30th with 174.7 passing yards per game
21st in pass TDs (6)
49 yards per game rushing
9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?)

In comment 15888746 GMen72 said:

Quote:

In comment 15888743 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888740 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888737 stoneman said: Quote: This HC and front office (all from Buffalo) know what a real $30 million+ QB looks like and what his stats should look like. They've taken a QB that sucked and made him above average/good. I'd imagine they'll look for a QB that isn't dependent on a great defense and running game to win games. Just wow. Winning doesn't matter to you clowns. It must be EXACTLY how you want. One more thing...the combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %). So, we're squeaking out wins against a shitty schedule with a QB that is in the bottom 1/3rd of every major QB statistic. You really don't think that will give the Giants front office something to think about. One more time.... 23rd in passing yards 29th in YPA 30th with 174.7 passing yards per game 21st in pass TDs (6) 49 yards per game rushing 9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?)

Because your post is full of shit. You purposely rank Jones passing yards because you know vs the league its lower but you only quoted his yards rushing per game.

You forgot to mention he is third in the NFL rushing for QB's? Didn't feel it was important but his passing rank was?

Also please example why a team whose strength is a super RB, with a QB among the best in all of the NFL in running, with an OL much better at Run blocking with the worst Receiving core in the NFL would have a decent passing attack unless the QB is a superstar?

Jones has played very well in leading the team to a 6-1 record with crappy wide receivers and the main tight end out for a month.
Barkley has been like the old Barkley, and I want him to stay as others should.

In comment 15888746 GMen72 said:

Quote:

In comment 15888743 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888740 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888737 stoneman said: Quote: This HC and front office (all from Buffalo) know what a real $30 million+ QB looks like and what his stats should look like. They've taken a QB that sucked and made him above average/good. I'd imagine they'll look for a QB that isn't dependent on a great defense and running game to win games. Just wow. Winning doesn't matter to you clowns. It must be EXACTLY how you want. One more thing...the combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %). So, we're squeaking out wins against a shitty schedule with a QB that is in the bottom 1/3rd of every major QB statistic. You really don't think that will give the Giants front office something to think about. One more time.... 23rd in passing yards 29th in YPA 30th with 174.7 passing yards per game 21st in pass TDs (6) 49 yards per game rushing 9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?)

You forgot the most important stat:

SIX AND FUCKING ONE!

i know, i know - they have that mark not because of him, but in spite because of him.

🙄🙄🙄🙄

Both need healthy and productive remaining games…….then, we trust the gm and hc to make all the right moves!

In comment 15888750 giantstock said:

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In comment 15888746 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888743 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888740 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888737 stoneman said: Quote: This HC and front office (all from Buffalo) know what a real $30 million+ QB looks like and what his stats should look like. They've taken a QB that sucked and made him above average/good. I'd imagine they'll look for a QB that isn't dependent on a great defense and running game to win games. Just wow. Winning doesn't matter to you clowns. It must be EXACTLY how you want. One more thing...the combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %). So, we're squeaking out wins against a shitty schedule with a QB that is in the bottom 1/3rd of every major QB statistic. You really don't think that will give the Giants front office something to think about. One more time.... 23rd in passing yards 29th in YPA 30th with 174.7 passing yards per game 21st in pass TDs (6) 49 yards per game rushing 9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?) Because your post is full of shit. You purposely rank Jones passing yards because you know vs the league its lower but you only quoted his yards rushing per game. You forgot to mention he is third in the NFL rushing for QB's? Didn't feel it was important but his passing rank was? Also please example why a team whose strength is a super RB, with a QB among the best in all of the NFL in running, with an OL much better at Run blocking with the worst Receiving core in the NFL would have a decent passing attack unless the QB is a superstar?

I think you're forgetting that this a thread about resigning DJ...not about his unstoppable greatness, which is making you so butthurt. I'm simply supplying the same stats the Giants will use, in negotiations, in order to not overpay for DJ ($30+ million), if/when they decide to resign him. However, to make you happy...I'll add more info to his stats! (Be sure to checkout that total yards stat, since the rushing stat was so important!)

*6-1 record
*Combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %)

*23rd in passing yards
*29th in YPA
*30th with 174.7 passing yards per game
*21st in pass TDs (6)
*3rd with 49 yards per game rushing
*18th in total yards (behind Carson Wentz, who didn't play last week) with 1566
*9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?)

In comment 15888762 GMen72 said:

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In comment 15888750 giantstock said: Quote: I think you're forgetting that this a thread about resigning DJ...not about his unstoppable greatness, which is making you so butthurt. I'm simply supplying the same stats the Giants will use, in negotiations, in order to not overpay for DJ ($30+ million), if/when they decide to resign him. However, to make you happy...I'll add more info to his stats! (Be sure to checkout that total yards stat, since the rushing stat was so important!) *6-1 record *Combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %) *23rd in passing yards *29th in YPA *30th with 174.7 passing yards per game *21st in pass TDs (6) *3rd with 49 yards per game rushing *18th in total yards (behind Carson Wentz, who didn't play last week) with 1566 *9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?)

Let’s be honest. You don’t understand a thing about stats or what the Giants are going to look for.

I love how you pretend for example that the giants are going to present the stats in a way you did by rating the passing but “forgot” to include that for Jones running. It has nothing to do with making me happy. It’s more to do with your deceptiveness and laughable belief like you know what the Giants are going to look at. You’ve already shown your cards that you’re either a deceptive or dumb poster.

For example, you use 6-1 data then use data fore the opponents. Yet you deceptively or because you are pretty dumb you omit the OL pass protection and ratings for the Receivers which they surely have.

Frankly, I think you are just dumb. It’s so comical that you aren’t bright enough to also look at the Giants other than Jones but yet you look at the opponents record. Well thanks for the laugh this morning. Posters like you continue to amaze how much you don’t understand.

In comment 15888766 giantstock said:

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In comment 15888762 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888750 giantstock said: Quote: I think you're forgetting that this a thread about resigning DJ...not about his unstoppable greatness, which is making you so butthurt. I'm simply supplying the same stats the Giants will use, in negotiations, in order to not overpay for DJ ($30+ million), if/when they decide to resign him. However, to make you happy...I'll add more info to his stats! (Be sure to checkout that total yards stat, since the rushing stat was so important!) *6-1 record *Combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %) *23rd in passing yards *29th in YPA *30th with 174.7 passing yards per game *21st in pass TDs (6) *3rd with 49 yards per game rushing *18th in total yards (behind Carson Wentz, who didn't play last week) with 1566 *9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?) Let’s be honest. You don’t understand a thing about stats or what the Giants are going to look for. I love how you pretend for example that the giants are going to present the stats in a way you did by rating the passing but “forgot” to include that for Jones running. It has nothing to do with making me happy. It’s more to do with your deceptiveness and laughable belief like you know what the Giants are going to look at. You’ve already shown your cards that you’re either a deceptive or dumb poster. For example, you use 6-1 data then use data fore the opponents. Yet you deceptively or because you are pretty dumb you omit the OL pass protection and ratings for the Receivers which they surely have. Frankly, I think you are just dumb. It’s so comical that you aren’t bright enough to also look at the Giants other than Jones but yet you look at the opponents record. Well thanks for the laugh this morning. Posters like you continue to amaze how much you don’t understand.

I prefer decepticon...or Mr. Decepticon to you! Oh damn...it's already taken.

The really funny thing in all of this is how the DJ supporters want to argue everything but real stats...you know, the stats literally everyone uses to compare great QBs. The next time a QB makes the HOF based on his OLine or WR rating, let me know. Also, opponents record, also known as strength of schedule...maybe you've heard of it? You deceiver, you!

In comment 15888767 GMen72 said:

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In comment 15888766 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888762 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15888750 giantstock said: Quote: I think you're forgetting that this a thread about resigning DJ...not about his unstoppable greatness, which is making you so butthurt. I'm simply supplying the same stats the Giants will use, in negotiations, in order to not overpay for DJ ($30+ million), if/when they decide to resign him. However, to make you happy...I'll add more info to his stats! (Be sure to checkout that total yards stat, since the rushing stat was so important!) *6-1 record *Combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %) *23rd in passing yards *29th in YPA *30th with 174.7 passing yards per game *21st in pass TDs (6) *3rd with 49 yards per game rushing *18th in total yards (behind Carson Wentz, who didn't play last week) with 1566 *9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?) Let’s be honest. You don’t understand a thing about stats or what the Giants are going to look for. I love how you pretend for example that the giants are going to present the stats in a way you did by rating the passing but “forgot” to include that for Jones running. It has nothing to do with making me happy. It’s more to do with your deceptiveness and laughable belief like you know what the Giants are going to look at. You’ve already shown your cards that you’re either a deceptive or dumb poster. For example, you use 6-1 data then use data fore the opponents. Yet you deceptively or because you are pretty dumb you omit the OL pass protection and ratings for the Receivers which they surely have. Frankly, I think you are just dumb. It’s so comical that you aren’t bright enough to also look at the Giants other than Jones but yet you look at the opponents record. Well thanks for the laugh this morning. Posters like you continue to amaze how much you don’t understand. I prefer decepticon...or Mr. Decepticon to you! Oh damn...it's already taken. The really funny thing in all of this is how the DJ supporters want to argue everything but real stats...you know, the stats literally everyone uses to compare great QBs. The next time a QB makes the HOF based on his OLine or WR rating, let me know. Also, opponents record, also known as strength of schedule...maybe you've heard of it? You deceiver, you!

Real stats? From you? You deliberately tried to hide that Jones was 3rd in running until you got called out on it.

You deliberately trey to hide stats of OL run vs block.

You deliberately bury your head in the sand about the Receiving core.

Please stop the comedy that you would present anything that is real. One; you're not smart enough. Secondly; you are deceptive and will only use a narrative that fits your bias opinion.

Thanks for the good laughs this morning.

Jones has played well with limited tools in my opinion. You could do worse. But I understand the arguments pro and con.

But according to a lot of folks we now have one of the best coaches in football. When the time comes he will know and he will decide. I think we can leave it to BD and enjoy the rest of the season.

this supposed to mean??

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*6-1 record *Combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %)

First off, it is 19-23. second off, there's only 5 teams who have a composite record above .500 of teams they've beaten. Understanding stats is really a lost art.

Furthermore, 5 of those losses that the teams we've beaten have suffered, have been by us - which means that the record, taking out our games is actually 19-17.

But that would just be one pointless stat counteracting another pointless stat.

losses have been by us

In comment 15888735 giantstock said:

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In comment 15888714 KJBBQ said: Quote: In comment 15888677 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888059 M.S. said: Quote: Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is why this contract talk is pretty dumb. If either one of them got hurt as they have in the past then why would anyone in their right mind give them a big contract for extended years? Posters that hate his game like Debaser, Go Terps, BW, Producer and Gatorade and others could still be right. Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late. If you are taking about the jag game interception that got called back..... Jones actually made the right read on that.... linebacker made a great play. Just shows you don't know what you are looking at. Let's see do we listen to a pro scout or a moron like you that misquotes what I say previously to fit your narrative? God, idiots like you that pretend like you know what you're talking about are just as bad as the dopes that used to balst Jones all the time. https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/10/25/game-review-new-york-giants-23-jacksonville-jaguars-17/ The most important stat from Jones came on the ground. He ran for 107 yards on 11 carries and added another touchdown. It was his first ever 100+ yard performance and he is third to only Lamar Jackson and Justin Fields in rushing by a quarterback this season. Jones has 1,343 yards on the ground so far in his career. Eli Manning had under 600 over his career. The contrast in offensive style and possibilities with an athlete like this under center should not be overlooked when evaluating his play. Jones put this team on his shoulder and delivered. He had multiple passes dropped, including a touchdown. Game ball for a guy who stepped up the most when his team needed him the most. If you are looking for a negative, he did have two turnovers cancelled by JAC penalties that did not exactly impact the original result of the play.

Go watch Bobby Skinners film review. You can see the all 22 there. Then come back to talbot to me.

At the 24 minute mark.
Link - ( New Window )

tagging and then signing a year later only adds disproportionately to the total guaranteed. The player has the last laugh.

IF you're not sure after working with him for a year, move on. After a full year with a vet, you know what you have, or enough so to make a decision. Playing him another year on a tag is an expensive way to do further evaluations. If you're that unsure, move on.

Tagging should be a last resort, only used as a negotiating tool, and only if you know you want him back.

tagging ties up cap space, which would be available under a normal first year of a longer contract.

at season’s end

puts a huge strain on the cap. We all know signing a franchise qb is expensive. We should all know there are no bargains in FA when a player is in demand. It’s worth discussing whether or not DJ is worth that much cap space.

That said, anyone posting only volume-based numbers (he is 20th in pass attempts) and ignoring DJs actual play: Top-5 qbr, 70+ pff and top-15 qb rating (which does not account for his rushing impact), is simply trolling.

Throw in our scoring efficiency, his ridiculously clutch play, age and work ethic (he should still improve) and you have a legit qb who is carrying a semi-talented term to a 6-1 record.

Additionally, anyone publicly implying we would be 6-1 with TT at the helm should probably be transferred to espn immediately

he's Marcus Mariota with a weaker resume, a better running game and a much better defense. Mariota signed for two years and $18 million. No sane GM is throwing $30 million at Daniel Jones. This is the same qb he always has been.

A lot of you are getting sucked in the way you were with Kanell in 1997 and an earlier generation with Brunner and/or Hostetler. The record this year is great; let's not get dazzled and forget his entire body of work and or start listening to bandwagon sportswriters who will be the first ones telling you how bad he is and how stupid Schoen was when he shits the bed. Remember, you are never as bad as you look when you lose or as good as you look when you win.

Originally, maybe Daniel Jones gets signed to about $22-25 Million per year. But not after past few weeks. In the NFL, if you have a player that you want to keep, you have to go high with an offer that is on the table until the player "leaves the building." Bottom line: Giants will go $30 - $35 Million, and could go as high as $40 Million / 5 years.

For rushing the ball. The same applies to QBs. You pay that money for passing prowess.

And evaluating a QB based on their won/loss record is just plain stupid.

In comment 15888639 HMunster said:

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1. Aaron Rodgers (Packers): $50.3 million (3-year, $150.8 million contract) 2. Russell Wilson (Broncos): $49 million (5-year, $245 million contract) 3. Kyler Murray (Cardinals): $46.1 million (5-year, $230.5 million contract) 4. Deshaun Watson (Browns): $46 million (5-year $230 million contract) 5. Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs): $45 million (10-year $450 million contract) 6. Josh Allen (Bills): $43 million (6-year $258 million contract) 7. Derek Carr (Raiders): $40.47 million (3-year, $121.4 million contract) T-8. Dak Prescott (Cowboys): $40 million (4-year, $160 million contract) T-8. Matt Stafford (Rams): $40 million (4-year $160 million contract) T-10. Kirk Cousins (Vikings): $35 million (1-year $35 million contract) 11. Jared Goff (Lions): $33.5 million (4-year $134 million contract) 12. Carson Wentz (Commanders): $32 million ($4-year 128 million contract) 13. Matt Ryan (Colts): $30 million (5-year $150 million contract) 14. Ryan Tannehill (Titans): $29.5 million (4-year $118 million contract) 15. Jimmy Garoppolo (49ers): $27.5 million (5-year $137.5 million contract) 16. Tom Brady (Buccaneers): $25 million (1-year contract) 17. Jameis Winston (Saints): $14 million (2-year $28 million contract) 18. Marcus Mariota (Falcons): $9.375 million (2-year $18.75 million contract) 19. Trevor Lawrence (Jaguars): $9.19 million (4-year $36.79 million contract) 20. Joe Burrow (Bengals): $9.04 million (4-year $36.19 million contract) Jimmy G, Wentz, Goff and Tannehill are all in the $27M - $33M per year range. If DJ continues his play this year, he's definitely worth that level.

Yes, if the Giants this year make it to a conference championship like the previous teams led by Garapolo, Wentz*, Goff, and Tannehill then Jones would certainly deserve to be paid like those guys. We're not there yet.

In comment 15888746 GMen72 said:

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One more thing...the combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %). So, we're squeaking out wins against a shitty schedule with a QB that is in the bottom 1/3rd of every major QB statistic. You really don't think that will give the Giants front office something to think about.

Take away the Giants 6 wins from the equation and they are 18-17. The Giants are the reason they have a losing record.

In comment 15888525 gidiefor said:

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You see this is problem I am having with you. Let's set your opinion to the side for minute. You come on to this thread and start ranting and raving and making multiple posts in crescendo, dominating the thread like a lunatic. This is what I think you need to tone down, because if I keep seeing you behave this way then you will be put on a time out.

The shit some posters say on this site and this is what you are going after? Wow.

In comment 15889146 Prude said:

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In comment 15888746 GMen72 said: Quote: One more thing...the combined record of the opponents we've beaten this year is...18-23 (44% winning %). So, we're squeaking out wins against a shitty schedule with a QB that is in the bottom 1/3rd of every major QB statistic. You really don't think that will give the Giants front office something to think about. Take away the Giants 6 wins from the equation and they are 18-17. The Giants are the reason they have a losing record.

Ok...not how it works, but whatever. Not the point of the thread. Back on topic, would you pay Jones $31+ million for this?

*23rd in passing yards
*29th in YPA
*30th with 174.7 passing yards per game
*21st in pass TDs (6)
*3rd with 49 yards per game rushing
*18th in total yards (behind Carson Wentz, who didn't play last week) with 1566
*9 total TDs in 7 games (Carson Wentz has 10 passing tds?)

Quoting the entire exchange everytime you reply makes the thread unreadable.

Just post, don’t quote

In comment 15889149 Sean said:

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In comment 15888525 gidiefor said: Quote: You see this is problem I am having with you. Let's set your opinion to the side for minute. You come on to this thread and start ranting and raving and making multiple posts in crescendo, dominating the thread like a lunatic. This is what I think you need to tone down, because if I keep seeing you behave this way then you will be put on a time out. The shit some posters say on this site and this is what you are going after? Wow.

He's baiting me, hoping I give him a reason to ban me.

No need. This time I'm done with this place for good. I'm not going to spend time getting aggravated by that loser.

Enjoy the team guys. Arrow is pointing up.

In comment 15891381 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15889149 Sean said: Quote: In comment 15888525 gidiefor said: Quote: You see this is problem I am having with you. Let's set your opinion to the side for minute. You come on to this thread and start ranting and raving and making multiple posts in crescendo, dominating the thread like a lunatic. This is what I think you need to tone down, because if I keep seeing you behave this way then you will be put on a time out. The shit some posters say on this site and this is what you are going after? Wow. He's baiting me, hoping I give him a reason to ban me. No need. This time I'm done with this place for good. I'm not going to spend time getting aggravated by that loser. Enjoy the team guys. Arrow is pointing up.

Buh-Bye!!!

In comment 15888525 gidiefor said:

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You see this is problem I am having with you. Let's set your opinion to the side for minute. You come on to this thread and start ranting and raving and making multiple posts in crescendo, dominating the thread like a lunatic. This is what I think you need to tone down, because if I keep seeing you behave this way then you will be put on a time out.

Whoa, was this intended to be in another thread? I just see 4 posts by GT, a few of which are responses to other people, and none of them qualify as ranting and raving

In comment 15888799 KJBBQ said:

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In comment 15888735 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888714 KJBBQ said: Quote: In comment 15888677 giantstock said: Quote: In comment 15888059 M.S. said: Quote: Does Daniel Jones need to stay healthy for essentially the entire season for the Giants to re-sign him? Same question for Saquon Barkley. Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!! Which is why this contract talk is pretty dumb. If either one of them got hurt as they have in the past then why would anyone in their right mind give them a big contract for extended years? Posters that hate his game like Debaser, Go Terps, BW, Producer and Gatorade and others could still be right. Also, there were at least two games Jones almost made incredibly awful-timed turnovers late. If you are taking about the jag game interception that got called back..... Jones actually made the right read on that.... linebacker made a great play. Just shows you don't know what you are looking at. Let's see do we listen to a pro scout or a moron like you that misquotes what I say previously to fit your narrative? God, idiots like you that pretend like you know what you're talking about are just as bad as the dopes that used to balst Jones all the time. https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2022/10/25/game-review-new-york-giants-23-jacksonville-jaguars-17/ The most important stat from Jones came on the ground. He ran for 107 yards on 11 carries and added another touchdown. It was his first ever 100+ yard performance and he is third to only Lamar Jackson and Justin Fields in rushing by a quarterback this season. Jones has 1,343 yards on the ground so far in his career. Eli Manning had under 600 over his career. The contrast in offensive style and possibilities with an athlete like this under center should not be overlooked when evaluating his play. Jones put this team on his shoulder and delivered. He had multiple passes dropped, including a touchdown. Game ball for a guy who stepped up the most when his team needed him the most. If you are looking for a negative, he did have two turnovers cancelled by JAC penalties that did not exactly impact the original result of the play. Go watch Bobby Skinners film review. You can see the all 22 there. Then come back to talbot to me.

I sent you SY's analysis. Maybe you need to read it. Then talk to me.

In comment 15888903 cosmicj said:

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For rushing the ball. The same applies to QBs. You pay that money for passing prowess. And evaluating a QB based on their won/loss record is just plain stupid.

Bullcrap. You evaluate everything. Not just passing.

In comment 15888813 wigs in nyc said:

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at season’s end

Which I've said many times.

I agree with you.

In comment 15888803 KJBBQ said:

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At the 24 minute mark. Link - ( New Window )

Okay so I have a quote from a pro scout in SY and you are using this All-22 as your pov. So you are a member of this site and as a result, I'm sure you have read SY's comment.

If you did, can I ask why you were so condescending to me if I agree with SY and you agree with the link?