Daniel Jones Stats - $30+ million dollar man?

stat...

6-2
plus
5 game winning drives.

No he is not worth $30+ mill per

You also could rank his receiving corps in your spare time.

I wouldn’t sign here long term given the circumstances.

On one thread, you ridicule “DJ fanboys” for citing comps that purportedly put his market value around that level. Here, you cite that price tag as a reason to let him walk. So do you think that’s the price or not?

uses stats as a primary means of evaluating quarterbacks should be fired.

How promising Willis looked last night in the middle of a 80 yards passing performance..

Not long term commitment money, but starter money. Then you draft a guy you can develop, say 3rd round or so, and in year two you let them fight it out.

We aren’t going to have a top 5 pick this year. Even if we draft a guy round 1, he’s still likely to need a year or two to develop. We’re seeing we can win with Jones but our options to get a better franchise type guy to start for next year are likely limited. 2-3 year deal at starter but but too money seems right to me.

It's been almost 4 years. You should know that Daniel Jones transcends stats. We've used statistics for decades, but Jones is so hard working, so easy to root for thar he's singlehandedly made statistics irrelevant. Truly once in a lifetime player, really a once in a lifetime human being, that we're all blessed is willing to grace our presence.

In comment 15899571 Jerry in_DC said:

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It's been almost 4 years. You should know that Daniel Jones transcends stats. We've used statistics for decades, but Jones is so hard working, so easy to root for thar he's singlehandedly made statistics irrelevant. Truly once in a lifetime player, really a once in a lifetime human being, that we're all blessed is willing to grace our presence.

Outstanding post...

In comment 15899576 section125 said:

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In comment 15899571 Jerry in_DC said: Quote: It's been almost 4 years. You should know that Daniel Jones transcends stats. We've used statistics for decades, but Jones is so hard working, so easy to root for thar he's singlehandedly made statistics irrelevant. Truly once in a lifetime player, really a once in a lifetime human being, that we're all blessed is willing to grace our presence. Outstanding post...

Well done... the kool aid is real on this board. It is clear to me Joe and Daboll want nothing more than to replace DJ and not be stuck with a chunk of change allocated to mediocrity.

In comment 15899554 section125 said:

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stat... 6-2 plus 5 game winning drives. No he is not worth $30+ mill per

At least not yet. He has to show more with a better/ healthier cast

Nobody thinks Jones transcends stats, or that he will easily command $30MM/year guaranteed, based on his performance to date.

I hope we all agree that there's more to evaluating a quarterback than reading a stat sheet, and that there's more to predicting market prices than finding a few somewhat-similar comps. Those aren't controversial views.

The Giants have one quarterback under contract for 2023: Tyrod Taylor. I believe Jones is better, younger, and (low bar here) more durable. For the same money, I would take Jones. For four times the money? Probably not, at least not if I knew Taylor was just a bridge to a brighter future.

Two evaluations will matter: The Giants' assessment of Jones's fit in whatever offense Daboll ultimately wants to run; and their assessment of the likely alternatives, including Taylor and the draft class. The League's pricing of Jones as a UFA will come into play as well, assuming he reaches that point. We don't know any of those things, which may be one reason these discussions devolve into straw man arguments and ridicule of dissenting opinions.

Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price.

Or pick another qb.

The numbers don't make sense.

In comment 15899571 Jerry in_DC said:

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It's been almost 4 years. You should know that Daniel Jones transcends stats. We've used statistics for decades, but Jones is so hard working, so easy to root for thar he's singlehandedly made statistics irrelevant. Truly once in a lifetime player, really a once in a lifetime human being, that we're all blessed is willing to grace our presence.

Well, along with the OP we now have two of the dumbest Jones posts we’ve seen in probably three of four days.

I didn't like the way he looked the first 2 games this year but he's really played pretty well since then to prove that the team can win with him - or least he makes enough plays and avoids the turnover plays that he used to to not lose games.

That said, I wish we had picked up his 5th year option because I think he deserves 1 more year with us.

The challenge is that "serviceable" starters are still a hot commodity in this league and if we don't give him an offer before the off-season he will definitely be getting calls from QB-needy teams. And there are plenty to go around: Colts, Jets, Texans, Washington, Patriots??, Raiders?, possibly Seattle- don't know what is going to happen with Geno, possibly Tampa if TB hangs it up, Saints?, Bears depending on what they do with Fields...

My guess is that at least 1 of the 10 teams above is going to give him a very serious offer that Giants aren't going to match. If we had any inkling of matching a real offer we would have at least picked up the 5th year option because it's an extra cost controlled year.

I am guessing he is with another team come the off-season.

In comment 15899554 section125 said:

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stat... 6-2 plus 5 game winning drives. No he is not worth $30+ mill per

Sacks 4th; Ints 36th; Fumbles 20th

Agree that he’s not at $30M yet.

In comment 15899585 Blueworm said:

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Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Or pick another qb. The numbers don't make sense.

I doubt Taylor can put up the same numbers, but he wasn't brought here at $6 mill per year for two years without a reason. He is clearly the hedge and the stop gap in case they decide to pass on Jones.

Blueworm said:

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Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price.

Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly.

Blueworm said:

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Or pick another qb.

Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better.

Blueworm said:

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The numbers don't make sense.

Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might.

In comment 15899585 Blueworm said:

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Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Or pick another qb. The numbers don't make sense.

Did you say the same thing last season about Glennon. I remember there were those who were calling for him to play before Jones was injured.

I agree that $30 mil+/year, at this moment, is too much
But, at this moment, $20-25 millions is not?

In comment 15899607 gersh said:

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I agree that $30 mil+/year, at this moment, is too much But, at this moment, $20-25 millions is not?

The last game left a bad impression. After doing pretty well up to Seattle, it seemed he was improving. Last game was bad.

Hard to throw up $20+ mill for that.

when you compare the two players --- to me Taylor is strictly a back up - you do not want him running the Offense. So I don't care how much you pay him, please stay off the field.

Jones is a starter. I think he can run an efficient offense and win games, but frankly he is not going to win you any trophies because if you take away his running ability, and you contain Barkley -- he can't do squat. Championship teams are going to be able to do that.

We were lucky to beat Tennessee - it was the first game of the season and I think the Giants surprised them. That game was a shocker.

When you look at the GB Win now in retrospect -- everyone is beating them -- even with Rogers -- they are not a good team right now.

The Baltimore game was all about Wink Martindale. The two championship teams the Giants played this year were the Cowboys and Seattle. Against Dallas, the back up QB looked better than Jones. Against Seattle Geno Smith looked better than Jones. When Philly and Dallas swallow again -- is that going to be acceptable football?

I know the argument is he needs WRs, and maybe that's true, but no-one really knows if that's true. That's the conjecture part; and you are going to have to pay through the ear to find out. What we do know is that this season, when Jones loses his ability to run, he looks pretty ordinary. He does not look like a champion under those circumstances.

In comment 15899608 section125 said:

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In comment 15899607 gersh said: Quote: I agree that $30 mil+/year, at this moment, is too much But, at this moment, $20-25 millions is not? The last game left a bad impression. After doing pretty well up to Seattle, it seemed he was improving. Last game was bad. Hard to throw up $20+ mill for that.

If I was Joe Schoen I would take 20-25m AAV all day. DJ's 5th year option would have been 22.4m if I recall and from what I'm reading the Franchise Tag is going to be 40m+. 20-25m AAV is great value and would be a back-door way of picking up the option year and then some. Outside of the draft you're not going to find anything better for under 30m. The bigger question is whether DJ will play for 20m a year. Not likely unless it's something like a 3 year fully guaranteed contract.

In comment 15899580 BigBlueJ said:

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In comment 15899576 section125 said: Quote: In comment 15899571 Jerry in_DC said: Quote: It's been almost 4 years. You should know that Daniel Jones transcends stats. We've used statistics for decades, but Jones is so hard working, so easy to root for thar he's singlehandedly made statistics irrelevant. Truly once in a lifetime player, really a once in a lifetime human being, that we're all blessed is willing to grace our presence. Outstanding post... Well done... the kool aid is real on this board. It is clear to me Joe and Daboll want nothing more than to replace DJ and not be stuck with a chunk of change allocated to mediocrity.

Didn’t realize you were one of the asshats. So who do your sources tell you will be the plan at quarterback next year?

Some get paid year-to-year.

Some don't get paid much at all.

There are no hard boundaries, but there are broad categories.

In 2022, Jones has probably edged up from the third category to the second. If a team sees him as a cornerstone, they should pay him accordingly; and if that team is the Giants, I'll trust this regime to make a reasonable decision.

I think it's more likely that he falls in the middle ground that was occupied for several years by the likes of Andy Dalton and Kirk Cousins. The Cousins Plan is probably obsolete because the franchise tag has become so exorbitant. But there are still deals like the one Dalton signed eight years ago: a nice paycheck as long as he holds the starting job, but not much long-term security. If Daboll considers Jones a reasonable fit, but not a long-term foundation stone, that's where I could see him ending up, dollar-wise.

In comment 15899571 Jerry in_DC said:

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It's been almost 4 years. You should know that Daniel Jones transcends stats. We've used statistics for decades, but Jones is so hard working, so easy to root for thar he's singlehandedly made statistics irrelevant. Truly once in a lifetime player, really a once in a lifetime human being, that we're all blessed is willing to grace our presence.

Such a stupid post… and yes - I realize it is sarcasm.

He could go to another team with better personal on offense. We have Barkley and 2 OT and thats it on offense. He will have a better chance to win somewhere else.

In comment 15899565 giantBCP said:

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I wouldn’t sign here long term given the circumstances.

That’s one of the angles nobody talks about.

Personally I don’t see that, but it’s possible. I’m sure he didn’t love the fact they didn’t get a WR considering his contract status.

Everything on here is so reactionary to the very last thing he did. If the bye was after the Jax game, many more posters would be saying that 30MM is fair. Because the last game wasn’t the best (and honestly, it wasn’t horrible either - it was just meh), everyone is back to 20MM or dump him. These are all ridiculous takes. As we knew from the beginning, he will get the entire year to prove himself before the GM will make a decision.

game winning drives and made some big boy throws and plays with his legs.

As stated on this thread, he needs to use his legs to be productive. This is no sustainable long term as a franchise guy.

I like the way he is playing and enjoying the season, but even if the league is swinging back to the run, Jones has not demonstrated an ability to lead the offense through the air on a consistent basis. This will be exposed long term by good teams.

Plenty of season to go and I am loving this season, but I still think the Giants go a different direction for a franchise QB1.

Jones looks serviceable and has made some big third down throws this season. Still allergic to the big passing plays downfield. Most clutch production is through his legs as compliment to Barkley. Not sustainable long term. I wouldn't give him 30 million. Is there a happy medium arrangement where he can stay while they look for the long term answer? I don't know.

In comment 15899620 Big Blue Blogger said:

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Some get paid year-to-year. Some don't get paid much at all. There are no hard boundaries, but there are broad categories.

I think the biggest factor is where Jones's arrow is pointing end-of-season, and if Team Jones is satisfied to play this hand, or is willing to bet again.

If everything is trending nicely, and you can explain away some of the missing productivity as a consequence of his teammates, I don't think Team Jones is taking a team friendly deal. Not when Kyler Murray is pulling down 160M in guarantees.

He'd be wiser to bet on himself, and have this conversation again after year two with Daboll and presumably better weapons.

In comment 15899619 joeinpa said:

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Didn’t realize you were one of the asshats. So who do your sources tell you will be the plan at quarterback next year?

To be fair there are a lot of stop-gap guys who will be free agents in 2023 that could come in for a year: Jameis Winston, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Geno Smith, Teddy Bridgewater, Jacoby Brisset, Case Keenum, Andy Dalton (I guess). Plus Tyrod is still under contract for another year - beauty is in the eye of the beholder comparing him to the guys above.

In comment 15899632 Dukie Dimes said:

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Everything on here is so reactionary to the very last thing he did. If the bye was after the Jax game, many more posters would be saying that 30MM is fair. Because the last game wasn’t the best (and honestly, it wasn’t horrible either - it was just meh), everyone is back to 20MM or dump him. These are all ridiculous takes. As we knew from the beginning, he will get the entire year to prove himself before the GM will make a decision.

good point. And if Jones played like Allen did yesterday the BBI lynch mob would be out.

I think Jones has played well and shown steady improvement this year and shown that he is a leader. And I also think that last week was his worst game of the season. Hopefully some rest and 2 weeks for the staff to work with him and do some teaching gets him back on the upward trajectory.

I was a fan of the signing but he hasn't done close to anything in this league in 4/5 years no. Stop saying we can just replace Jones' production with Taylor - its completely ridiculous.

If you move the conversation to "there's other players with similar skillsets, in the draft and possibly free agency that can duplicate Jones' production, then I'll listen.

As for the OP - its not the $30m I care about, its how many times (years) I have to pay it and how much is guaranteed. So chance I commit to anything right now. In fact, if Jones doesn't play well and get us to 8-2 after the BYE then I'm going to go ahead and say that it shouldn't happen at all.

that I want him to hit FA just to see what the league sees in him, what the professionals think of his future as a QB in this league.

I'm dying to know what his market is.

In comment 15899571 Jerry in_DC said:

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It's been almost 4 years. You should know that Daniel Jones transcends stats. We've used statistics for decades, but Jones is so hard working, so easy to root for thar he's singlehandedly made statistics irrelevant. Truly once in a lifetime player, really a once in a lifetime human being, that we're all blessed is willing to grace our presence.

Just for kicks, compare Phil Simms' stats to Joe Montana's. I guess you think Simms was terrible.

pun intended. I understand why we'll talk about this everyday as long as Daniel Jones is the Giants starting QB. NFL QB Is the most important potion in sports. But we're only 50% or less through the 2022 season and the decision won't be made until about a month after it's over.

Daniel Jones has an NFL value. We can have fun debating it until an NFL GM proves us right or wrong. I think a few things that have happened so far in 2022 will have a big impact on Jones perceived value around the league. The Russell Wilson disaster contract in Denver should be a warning about what can happen quickly for overpaying QBs. Brady will retire. Aaron Rodgers has gotten weird off the field and old in the ring (boxing reference google it if you haven't heard it).

How many great QBs are there in the NFL in 2022 and how many teams will need a QB in 2023?

Josh Allen - Bills, Patrick Mahomes - Chiefs, Joe Burrow - Bengals. Are those the best 3 QBs right now? Maybe Herbert - Chargers on that list?

Then there are these guys. Would any GM want to replace any of them with Daniel Jones? Murray - Cards, Zach Wilson - Jets, Mac Jones - Pats, Lawrence - Jags, Hurts - Eagles, Tua - Dolphins, Cousins - Vikings, Carr - Raiders, Wilson - Broncos, Fields - Bears, Tannehill - Titans, Dak - Cowboys. Goff - Lions, Stafford - Rams, Rodgers/Love - Packers

Did I miss anyone? That's 19 total QBs. If you agree with my thinking that leaves 13 teams that are trying to figure out their QB stater for 2023. I think the Giants will have some competition for Jones. Hopefully the GM and HC have a number they won't go over and hopefully the owner doesn't intervene.

If they retain him as such, the AAV should be nowhere near $30M. If he wants to chase the market, consider a tag and try to trade him. He's not the longterm answer for NYG if you want to chase championships on a yearly basis. ymmv.

But does he take that?

This draft class has 2018 written all over it (I know it produced Allen and Lamar, but could totally see Stroud, Young, Levis, Van Dyke, etc .. all flopping).

Stockpile picks for 2024 - Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, Quinn Ewers. Give Jones 2023 with a real supporting cast for the first time in his 5 years in the NFL and see what he can do. If not, make a move in the draft, and he's only got 2 years left on the deal.

In comment 15899647 UConn4523 said:

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I was a fan of the signing but he hasn't done close to anything in this league in 4/5 years no. Stop saying we can just replace Jones' production with Taylor - its completely ridiculous.

He looks like toast. I was floored when Sy said Taylor was one of the best 32 QBs in the NFL in his camp review. I thought Taylor looked shot in Houston.

I think Taylor is on his way out of the NFL and Jones is probably one of the best 32 quarterbacks in the NFL.

You skipped over that the Giants are tied for fourth in dropped passes while being 29th (223) in attempts. The teams tied with the Giants (at 13 drops) have thrown 53, 51, 32, 101, 128 (Chargers) and 175 (Bucs) more passes. The teams with 15 drops have thrown 86 and 103 more, and the Dolphins are worst with 17 drops while throwing 99 more passes than the Giants. All have lower drop rates than the Giants.

And you glossed over that Jones' 65 percent completion rate is 0.3 behind Brady, who has thrown 175 more passes with his receivers having the same number of drops. If the drop rates were the same, Jones would be ahead of him in comp percentage. He is 1.2 points behind Mahomes (who has thrown 108 more passes with 5 fewer drops, again, the percentage would be close, if not in Jones' favor, with the same drop percentage), and 0.9 better than Allen. Rodgers is at 64.7, Lawrence 64.3, Jackson (who many wanted to sign as a free agent) is at 63, and Wilson (who many of the Jones haters wanted to trade the farm for, while at the same time sacrificing the cap) is at 58.8.

In comment 15899694 christian said:

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In comment 15899647 UConn4523 said: Quote: I was a fan of the signing but he hasn't done close to anything in this league in 4/5 years no. Stop saying we can just replace Jones' production with Taylor - its completely ridiculous. He looks like toast. I was floored when Sy said Taylor was one of the best 32 QBs in the NFL in his camp review. I thought Taylor looked shot in Houston. I think Taylor is on his way out of the NFL and Jones is probably one of the best 32 quarterbacks in the NFL.

I agree on Taylor, looks like this should be his last contract. Can't hate him for still getting the money if someone wants to pay him, but I don't want to see him play. People calling him a bridge QB made no sense either - you don't want to see him for more than a game per season, let alone the bulk of a season to get a young QB ready.

Herbert looked bad under Cristobal his first year with him. He’s a QB killer.

They don't throw the ball enough to have the QB put up big stats. They are playing winning football based on the talent, and lack therof, they have. Why is this so hard to understand? Why do people continue to try and diminsh Jones by posting raw stats? If you throw 25 times you will get 200 yds not 400 yds, its called math.

I know it's hindsight and we needed an insurance policy for Jones...
But spending the money from his contract on someone like JJSS would have dramatically changed the look of this offense IMO

So much hinges on variables we don't know yet - how the Giants finish, how Jones looks during that stretch, how the FO views this draft class, how close we are to being able to acquire one of those prospects, the QB market itself (are teams shoppping hungry?), how flexible Jones camp would be on deal structure.

The reality is that we're trending toward a QB purgatory situation. I hope things line up to where a draft prospect they like is within striking range but it's very likely if we're picking around 20 and that's not the case. Then you're left with the ugly options of either destabilizing the position and throwing in with an unbacked, fragile (and downgraded imo) Tyrod or overpaying Jones. It's easier said than done just scrapping Jones off a playoff birth when you don't have skin in the game. But if you're Schoen/Daboll, you don't want to lose momentum and you leave yourself WIDE OPEN to job security concerns if the team takes a big step back in year 2 (we've seen it multiple times here) off the decision to dump the guy that took you to the playoffs the year before. It's a very real possibility this team regresses in the win column with or without Jones next year too, so it could even be the correct call but you open yourself up completely to fans/media that want more explanation than "variance" or non-linear progression. There are scenarios, very real ones, where it makes sense to take the approach the Chiefs did with Alex Smith while they were in purgatory when it comes to Jones.

Not much hinges on play the rest of the way. The Giants braintrust aren't like fans on this board. They know Jones' traits. They know what he is as a QB. The decision is likely made, one way or another. The vagaries of half an NFL season won't factor into the decision.

Now my personal opinion is that outside the top QBs (pick your cuttoff, mine is around 8-10 QBs), then the next 15 or so starters are all the same. So to me there is no difference between a Jimmy G, Cousins, Tannehill, Daniel Jones, or Mariotta. I think it only has to do with the surrounding cast. Put Cousins on the Giants and you get the same stats as Jones, etc. When you have a top guy you craft your offense around him, when you don't you even it all out and leverage other strengths. At this point, outside of the top QBs, it becomes limiting turnovers and taking advantage of specific strengths (like Jones running ability).

In comment 15899679 arniefez said:

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pun intended. I understand why we'll talk about this everyday as long as Daniel Jones is the Giants starting QB. NFL QB Is the most important potion in sports. But we're only 50% or less through the 2022 season and the decision won't be made until about a month after it's over. Daniel Jones has an NFL value. We can have fun debating it until an NFL GM proves us right or wrong. I think a few things that have happened so far in 2022 will have a big impact on Jones perceived value around the league. The Russell Wilson disaster contract in Denver should be a warning about what can happen quickly for overpaying QBs. Brady will retire. Aaron Rodgers has gotten weird off the field and old in the ring (boxing reference google it if you haven't heard it). How many great QBs are there in the NFL in 2022 and how many teams will need a QB in 2023? Josh Allen - Bills, Patrick Mahomes - Chiefs, Joe Burrow - Bengals. Are those the best 3 QBs right now? Maybe Herbert - Chargers on that list? Then there are these guys. Would any GM want to replace any of them with Daniel Jones? Murray - Cards, Zach Wilson - Jets, Mac Jones - Pats, Lawrence - Jags, Hurts - Eagles, Tua - Dolphins, Cousins - Vikings, Carr - Raiders, Wilson - Broncos, Fields - Bears, Tannehill - Titans, Dak - Cowboys. Goff - Lions, Stafford - Rams, Rodgers/Love - Packers Did I miss anyone? That's 19 total QBs. If you agree with my thinking that leaves 13 teams that are trying to figure out their QB stater for 2023. I think the Giants will have some competition for Jones. Hopefully the GM and HC have a number they won't go over and hopefully the owner doesn't intervene.

Considering the existing contracts and current performance the following teams are likely not in the market for a QB in 2023: Cards, Eagles, Dolphins, Vikings, Broncos, Rams, Cowboys, Jags (very unlikely they give up on Trevor after 1 year in the current system).

However, there are several teams you left out that could use a 'decent' starter like DJ in 2023: Colts, Texans, Washington, Tampa (assuming TB12 hangs it up this year), Saints (they have 3 QBs and none of them are viable winning options), Seahawks (Geno is only on a 1 year contract so who knows what happens there).

To your point, DJ will 100% get some serious multi-year offers from these teams if he makes it to free agency (i.e. he isn't signed by the Giants before the end of the year).

Whoever the QB is, we're not likely to be 6-2 again next year. We're likely to have a tougher schedule and have the close game results even out.

6-2 is way ahead of schedule and a couple games above our level as a team.

For some reason I think fans here will view that differently.

In comment 15899685 JonC said:

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If they retain him as such, the AAV should be nowhere near $30M. If he wants to chase the market, consider a tag and try to trade him. He's not the longterm answer for NYG if you want to chase championships on a yearly basis. ymmv.

I think at this point most are on board with this. Its now a question of what to do next season

In comment 15899747 Sean said:

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For some reason I think fans here will view that differently.

I definitely do, he's been terrible. Its actually shocking that they've been able to win with him.

In comment 15899719 PatersonPlank said:

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They don't throw the ball enough to have the QB put up big stats. They are playing winning football based on the talent, and lack therof, they have. Why is this so hard to understand? Why do people continue to try and diminsh Jones by posting raw stats? If you throw 25 times you will get 200 yds not 400 yds, its called math.

Agree completely. The scheme is to run the ball. The talents of the OL support that. Why is this so difficult to understand?

In comment 15899733 Producer said:

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Not much hinges on play the rest of the way. The Giants braintrust aren't like fans on this board. They know Jones' traits. They know what he is as a QB. The decision is likely made, one way or another. The vagaries of half an NFL season won't factor into the decision.

Disagree. If he wins 11 games and makes the playoffs he's not going anywhere.

focus on assigning a value to a particular player. We will see how strict he is with this over time.

Lots to still play out but two components outside Jones are what does he think of the team overall and then the draft.

If he is more positive on the team with how close they are that has a big impact on what he does at the position imv.

If Jones shows well the last 9 games I think he may try to set a value as create a shorter window that he can change course quickly in 1-3 years. He also can start moving draft pick assets to future years if needed.

One thing about QB's in college. Sometimes they come out in bunches and unfortunately it can be a long wait between them. The other big side is if you spend too much on your QB you impact potentially impact having a better overall team.

What you hate to happen is waste a good team which I think the Giants are pretty close to having.

I still think he is far from coming to a definitive answer as of yet.

In comment 15899758 Dukie Dimes said:

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In comment 15899719 PatersonPlank said: Quote: They don't throw the ball enough to have the QB put up big stats. They are playing winning football based on the talent, and lack therof, they have. Why is this so hard to understand? Why do people continue to try and diminsh Jones by posting raw stats? If you throw 25 times you will get 200 yds not 400 yds, its called math. Agree completely. The scheme is to run the ball. The talents of the OL support that. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Then they're treating him strictly as a game manager and you don't give that guy big bucks.

the only salient argument for next year is: what are the Giants' alternatives? Do they have any real ones? (by the way, I really don't want to see a season of Taylor at the helm, nor do I think that is a reasonable play. It's definitely a step downward.)

If you want to pay to play for the unknown, and you aren't thrilled with your alternatives, you might have to do the non-exclusive franchise tag, and pay to play. If another team bites, you get a draft haul. If they don't, you get a shot at seeing what Jones can do if you add some bona-fide skill players to the mix and you suck it up and see what happens.

In comment 15899567 Big Blue Blogger said:

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On one thread, you ridicule “DJ fanboys” for citing comps that purportedly put his market value around that level. Here, you cite that price tag as a reason to let him walk. So do you think that’s the price or not?

They weren't even realistic comps. Wentz had an MVP season going before he was hurt. Tannehill has had back to back 3700+ yard passing seasons, one with 33 TDs. DJs career stats are terrible...even his "much improved" season stats suck.

My "fanboy" comment was based on the fact that most Giants fan that want him resigned want to base it on completely subjective criteria and ignore stats.

The only way to make DJ a franchise QB is to "want" or "hope" that he's worth resigning.

In comment 15899771 gidiefor said:

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the only salient argument for next year is: what are the Giants' alternatives? Do they have any real ones? (by the way, I really don't want to see a season of Taylor at the helm, nor do I think that is a reasonable play. It's definitely a step downward.) If you want to pay to play for the unknown, and you aren't thrilled with your alternatives, you might have to do the non-exclusive franchise tag, and pay to play. If another team bites, you get a draft haul. If they don't, you get a shot at seeing what Jones can do if you add some bona-fide skill players to the mix and you suck it up and see what happens.

by the way -- this is assuming Jones doesn't want to take on a team friendly deal.

In comment 15899752 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 15899747 Sean said: Quote: For some reason I think fans here will view that differently. I definitely do, he's been terrible. Its actually shocking that they've been able to win with him.

So wins don't dictate the future of the QB? Or they do? Or they do for Jones and not for Wilson? Even though Jones is engineering the 30th best pass offense.

In comment 15899769 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15899758 Dukie Dimes said: Quote: In comment 15899719 PatersonPlank said: Quote: They don't throw the ball enough to have the QB put up big stats. They are playing winning football based on the talent, and lack therof, they have. Why is this so hard to understand? Why do people continue to try and diminsh Jones by posting raw stats? If you throw 25 times you will get 200 yds not 400 yds, its called math. Agree completely. The scheme is to run the ball. The talents of the OL support that. Why is this so difficult to understand? Then they're treating him strictly as a game manager and you don't give that guy big bucks.

I wouldn't give any QB outside of my top 8-10 big bucks, as I pointed out above. Jones/Cousins/Mariotta/Tannehill/etc are all interchangeable in my mind, and the output will depend on the team around them.

However I push back when people say Jones sucks, and kid themselves getting an upgrade will be easy. Odds are we end up with the same or worse. Mahomes/Rodgers don't grow on trees. We get a guy like your fanboy Willis in here, and we will end up running the same offense only worse. Meanwhile all our good players will move on

I am with you on the compensation side. Just because the market sets a trend does not mean you have to follow that trend.

In comment 15899788 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

I am with you on the compensation side. Just because the market sets a trend does not mean you have to follow that trend.

The market dictates the compensation. Not you. And not the Giants.

In comment 15899752 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 15899747 Sean said: Quote: For some reason I think fans here will view that differently. I definitely do, he's been terrible. Its actually shocking that they've been able to win with him.

This is why team record is not a good way to evaluate QBs. The Jets locked down a great Buffalo O yesterday. Wilson has not been good.

there is a very strong public salary cap resource that does exactly the same thing with OTC. they updated their player valuations just last week so this is a pretty real time estimate of the value of how jones has played so far this year. unless something dramatic happens either way over the rest of the year he is destined for a tag to start the offseason (though there's a lot that can happen from there). if you click on the 'valuation' tab you will see how they've valued his performance each week of the year (lowest was 17m in week 8, highest was 44m in week 7).



OTC’s player valuations are calculated using proprietary formulas to more accurately depict the value being provided by a player based on his on field performance relative to the current market for his position. The calculations utilize a number of statistic and performance evaluations that are provided by Pro Football Focus. Positional valuations use a number of factors including snap counts, PFF grades and statistics to determine the player’s primary valuation. Overall values add a special teams component to the valuation. For a more in depth analysis of player and team
https://overthecap.com/player/daniel-jones/7797 - ( New Window )

In comment 15899792 Jerry in_DC said:

Quote:

In comment 15899752 UConn4523 said: Quote: In comment 15899747 Sean said: Quote: For some reason I think fans here will view that differently. I definitely do, he's been terrible. Its actually shocking that they've been able to win with him. This is why team record is not a good way to evaluate QBs. The Jets locked down a great Buffalo O yesterday. Wilson has not been good.

Yesterday Wilson did a Daniel Jones imitation. Very conservative. No mistakes.

In comment 15899791 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15899788 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: I am with you on the compensation side. Just because the market sets a trend does not mean you have to follow that trend. The market dictates the compensation. Not you. And not the Giants.

Read what I wrote.

In comment 15899799 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

In comment 15899791 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15899788 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: I am with you on the compensation side. Just because the market sets a trend does not mean you have to follow that trend. The market dictates the compensation. Not you. And not the Giants. Read what I wrote.

If you don't pay market value, you will really be in quarterback hell. Do you think someone is going to come to the most expensive places in the country to live at below market value. Really glad you're not running this team.

they have wilsons best performance of the year worth 30m and worst at 11m. considering he has 3 tds to 5 ints despite a lot of weapons around him that seems kind.

but context aside if you think they are the same then otc is either biased or incompetent.

In comment 15899808 k2tampa said:

Quote:

In comment 15899799 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: In comment 15899791 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15899788 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: I am with you on the compensation side. Just because the market sets a trend does not mean you have to follow that trend. The market dictates the compensation. Not you. And not the Giants. Read what I wrote. If you don't pay market value, you will really be in quarterback hell. Do you think someone is going to come to the most expensive places in the country to live at below market value. Really glad you're not running this team.

So if a team places a value of "whatever" on a particular QB then all teams should follow suit? Okay then.

In comment 15899600 Big Blue Blogger said:

Quote:

Blueworm said: Quote: Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly. Blueworm said: Quote: Or pick another qb. Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better. Blueworm said: Quote: The numbers don't make sense. Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might.

Actually, the best comp that's been mentioned to Daniel Jones is Tyrod Taylor. I'd bet their stats, as starters, are almost identical.

In comment 15899613 gidiefor said:

Quote:

when you compare the two players --- to me Taylor is strictly a back up - you do not want him running the Offense. So I don't care how much you pay him, please stay off the field. Jones is a starter. I think he can run an efficient offense and win games, but frankly he is not going to win you any trophies because if you take away his running ability, and you contain Barkley -- he can't do squat. Championship teams are going to be able to do that. We were lucky to beat Tennessee - it was the first game of the season and I think the Giants surprised them. That game was a shocker. When you look at the GB Win now in retrospect -- everyone is beating them -- even with Rogers -- they are not a good team right now. The Baltimore game was all about Wink Martindale. The two championship teams the Giants played this year were the Cowboys and Seattle. Against Dallas, the back up QB looked better than Jones. Against Seattle Geno Smith looked better than Jones. When Philly and Dallas swallow again -- is that going to be acceptable football? I know the argument is he needs WRs, and maybe that's true, but no-one really knows if that's true. That's the conjecture part; and you are going to have to pay through the ear to find out. What we do know is that this season, when Jones loses his ability to run, he looks pretty ordinary. He does not look like a champion under those circumstances.

Very good summary.

In comment 15899794 Producer said:

Quote:

In comment 15899792 Jerry in_DC said: Quote: In comment 15899752 UConn4523 said: Quote: In comment 15899747 Sean said: Quote: For some reason I think fans here will view that differently. I definitely do, he's been terrible. Its actually shocking that they've been able to win with him. This is why team record is not a good way to evaluate QBs. The Jets locked down a great Buffalo O yesterday. Wilson has not been good. Yesterday Wilson did a Daniel Jones imitation. Very conservative. No mistakes.

Yesterday most winning teams had QB's do a Daniel Jones imitation. IF you don't have Mahomes or Rodgers its what you do. I don't see this as a negative

In comment 15899841 Lines of Scrimmage said:

Quote:

In comment 15899808 k2tampa said: Quote: In comment 15899799 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: In comment 15899791 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15899788 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: I am with you on the compensation side. Just because the market sets a trend does not mean you have to follow that trend. The market dictates the compensation. Not you. And not the Giants. Read what I wrote. If you don't pay market value, you will really be in quarterback hell. Do you think someone is going to come to the most expensive places in the country to live at below market value. Really glad you're not running this team. So if a team places a value of "whatever" on a particular QB then all teams should follow suit? Okay then.

Not what I said. One team can always skew the market. But that contract will also certainly affect the asking price of every comparable player. If you refuse to pay what every other team considers market value for any good quarterback then you are not going to sign a good quarterback. Then you will be stuck every year or two trying to find one in picks 15-25.

Take a look at where the top 10 QBs were drafter. Then look at the ones drafted from 15 on. Drafting one in the top 15 is a roll of the dice. Drafting one after 15 is like buying a powerball ticket. In the last 10 drafts the only QBs taken after pick 12 in round 1 who have been worth a damn are Garappolo and Carr in the second round of 2014's draft. And I'll add Geno Smith in the second round of 2013 to be nice.

In comment 15899844 GMen72 said:

Quote:

In comment 15899600 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: Blueworm said: Quote: Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly. Blueworm said: Quote: Or pick another qb. Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better. Blueworm said: Quote: The numbers don't make sense. Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might. Actually, the best comp that's been mentioned to Daniel Jones is Tyrod Taylor. I'd bet their stats, as starters, are almost identical.

If this is your argument, Tyrod taylor was paid 16m as a starter in 2018 where the highest qb contract was 38m. In 2023 the highest qb contract is going to be over 55m. So if you adjust for inflation sportrac isnt too far off.

who claim that all that matters when evaluating Jones this season is the W/L were saying it was unfair to evaluate Jones based on the W/L results before this season. If the Giants have a bad second half this year, I wonder how many will rediscover the flawed logic of evaluating Jones based on W/L.

My take is that Jones is a high end backup. He has flashes and can even win some games, but over time, his limitations become apparent and he is exposed. My sense is that the new leadership feels similarly and Jones will only be retained after this season if it can be on cost effective terms and he can continue to play the role of stopgap until the future qb is acquired. If some other team wants to pay him like he’s a franchise qb after this season, then sayonara.

In comment 15899739 Jerry in_DC said:

Quote:

Whoever the QB is, we're not likely to be 6-2 again next year. We're likely to have a tougher schedule and have the close game results even out. 6-2 is way ahead of schedule and a couple games above our level as a team.

The goal should be to have Bills/Chiefs/Eagles type roster in 2-4 years...not just win a few games now, or next year. I get Giants fans are starved for a winner, but making decisions to "win now" and build for the future is a Gettleman move. Accumulate talent, draft well, be smart in FA, and find a top 5-10 QB. Those should be the goals...not immediate gratification.

Not 100% correlated on how Jones plays but in our ability to be able to acquire the next guy via draft position and also how it sets the floor going into next year in terms of outside expectations that should influence any human decision-makers process.

In comment 15899814 Eric on Li said:

Quote:

they have wilsons best performance of the year worth 30m and worst at 11m. considering he has 3 tds to 5 ints despite a lot of weapons around him that seems kind. but context aside if you think they are the same then otc is either biased or incompetent.

You're comparing a year 2 QB, who missed the preseason to a year 4 QB? Seems fair!

Other than win 6 games this year (which definitely isn't all him), DJ has done nothing to be worth $29 million. What are they basing that on? Running? Can't be passing or TDs!

In comment 15899917 eugibs said:

Quote:

who claim that all that matters when evaluating Jones this season is the W/L were saying it was unfair to evaluate Jones based on the W/L results before this season. If the Giants have a bad second half this year, I wonder how many will rediscover the flawed logic of evaluating Jones based on W/L. My take is that Jones is a high end backup. He has flashes and can even win some games, but over time, his limitations become apparent and he is exposed. My sense is that the new leadership feels similarly and Jones will only be retained after this season if it can be on cost effective terms and he can continue to play the role of stopgap until the future qb is acquired. If some other team wants to pay him like he’s a franchise qb after this season, then sayonara.

If he's a high end backup. And there are 32 teams. Please name the 32 qb's who are starter caliber qb's in the nfl right now that would push him to being a "backup"

He's going to be the guy make no mistake. This bridge QB talk is just bullshit.

In comment 15899846 Mike from Ohio said:

Quote:

In comment 15899613 gidiefor said: Quote: when you compare the two players --- to me Taylor is strictly a back up - you do not want him running the Offense. So I don't care how much you pay him, please stay off the field. Jones is a starter. I think he can run an efficient offense and win games, but frankly he is not going to win you any trophies because if you take away his running ability, and you contain Barkley -- he can't do squat. Championship teams are going to be able to do that. We were lucky to beat Tennessee - it was the first game of the season and I think the Giants surprised them. That game was a shocker. When you look at the GB Win now in retrospect -- everyone is beating them -- even with Rogers -- they are not a good team right now. The Baltimore game was all about Wink Martindale. The two championship teams the Giants played this year were the Cowboys and Seattle. Against Dallas, the back up QB looked better than Jones. Against Seattle Geno Smith looked better than Jones. When Philly and Dallas swallow again -- is that going to be acceptable football? I know the argument is he needs WRs, and maybe that's true, but no-one really knows if that's true. That's the conjecture part; and you are going to have to pay through the ear to find out. What we do know is that this season, when Jones loses his ability to run, he looks pretty ordinary. He does not look like a champion under those circumstances. Very good summary.

+2

I also don't understand this all or nothing thing with the W/L record. You can look at a bad team and say you'd like the QB to lift the team up more and not look as pathetic as they have.

You can also look at a good season and say the QB has had some great games that really help us win. You can also say that despite a 6-2 record he hasn't played well enough to earn a large, longer term contract in light of these facts.

It's a complete strawman argument that the previous bad teams were laid at the feet of Jones. Criticism of him rarely didn't acknowledge he was dealt a bad hand. Since that never really happened it isn't at all applying the same logic to lay this teams good results squarely on him either.

I think that right there is the apprehension around paying him a lot. He has been just part of the story and very hard to determine exactly how much. So I don't want to pay him like a leading man without decisive evidence of that...

In comment 15899899 outeiroj said:

Quote:

In comment 15899844 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899600 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: Blueworm said: Quote: Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly. Blueworm said: Quote: Or pick another qb. Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better. Blueworm said: Quote: The numbers don't make sense. Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might. Actually, the best comp that's been mentioned to Daniel Jones is Tyrod Taylor. I'd bet their stats, as starters, are almost identical. If this is your argument, Tyrod taylor was paid 16m as a starter in 2018 where the highest qb contract was 38m. In 2023 the highest qb contract is going to be over 55m. So if you adjust for inflation sportrac isnt too far off.

You guys keep doing this. Tannehill, Wentz, Taylor (hell, his career numbers aren't as good as Tannehill or Wentz?) were all terrible signings/contracts. Why would you want to repeat that? The writing is on the wall with Jones...4 years, and a severe lack of production. Why sign him to comps of terrible production/contracts? It makes no sense. Stop prolonging the inevitable...let him walk. Just don't repeat the mistakes other franchises have made with similar QBs.

In comment 15900099 GMen72 said:

Quote:

In comment 15899899 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 15899844 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899600 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: Blueworm said: Quote: Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly. Blueworm said: Quote: Or pick another qb. Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better. Blueworm said: Quote: The numbers don't make sense. Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might. Actually, the best comp that's been mentioned to Daniel Jones is Tyrod Taylor. I'd bet their stats, as starters, are almost identical. If this is your argument, Tyrod taylor was paid 16m as a starter in 2018 where the highest qb contract was 38m. In 2023 the highest qb contract is going to be over 55m. So if you adjust for inflation sportrac isnt too far off. You guys keep doing this. Tannehill, Wentz, Taylor (hell, his career numbers aren't as good as Tannehill or Wentz?) were all terrible signings/contracts. Why would you want to repeat that? The writing is on the wall with Jones...4 years, and a severe lack of production. Why sign him to comps of terrible production/contracts? It makes no sense. Stop prolonging the inevitable...let him walk. Just don't repeat the mistakes other franchises have made with similar QBs.

You keep saying that, but please name a realistic alternative. Drafting QB's over and over and over again has proven to not work. I'm not saying DJ is the answer, I just believe there's a middle of the road approach. The difference is, I understand that 30m next year is middle of the road and some dont. The salary cap is trending on going up another 8.4% next year which would put it around 225m. 30m is not alot anymore.

In comment 15900180 outeiroj said:

Quote:

In comment 15900099 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899899 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 15899844 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899600 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: Blueworm said: Quote: Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly. Blueworm said: Quote: Or pick another qb. Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better. Blueworm said: Quote: The numbers don't make sense. Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might. Actually, the best comp that's been mentioned to Daniel Jones is Tyrod Taylor. I'd bet their stats, as starters, are almost identical. If this is your argument, Tyrod taylor was paid 16m as a starter in 2018 where the highest qb contract was 38m. In 2023 the highest qb contract is going to be over 55m. So if you adjust for inflation sportrac isnt too far off. You guys keep doing this. Tannehill, Wentz, Taylor (hell, his career numbers aren't as good as Tannehill or Wentz?) were all terrible signings/contracts. Why would you want to repeat that? The writing is on the wall with Jones...4 years, and a severe lack of production. Why sign him to comps of terrible production/contracts? It makes no sense. Stop prolonging the inevitable...let him walk. Just don't repeat the mistakes other franchises have made with similar QBs. You keep saying that, but please name a realistic alternative. Drafting QB's over and over and over again has proven to not work. I'm not saying DJ is the answer, I just believe there's a middle of the road approach. The difference is, I understand that 30m next year is middle of the road and some dont. The salary cap is trending on going up another 8.4% next year which would put it around 225m. 30m is not alot anymore.

Drafting QBs over and over? We're talking 1 QB and Dave Gettleman here...DJ was a reach at 6, and looks like a reach 4 years later. Yes, the next QB may not be the guy, but Jones isn't either.

You're making decisions based on fear. You're content with 8-9 or 9-8...I want to see Schoen build a top 2-4 team in the NFL.

I'm fine with 4-13 for a year or two (or 10) as long as this organization is trying to build something great. Paying $30 million for mediocrity isn't part of that equation.

What if we draft the next Mahomes or Allen? What if we hit on a HOF QB? We hired Schoen to make better decisions than Gettleman...I believe he will until he doesn't. The faster you get the new guy in here, the faster he can be coached up and evaluated. Yes, he might be average too...but it's better than just sticking with the familiar because the familiar is slightly better than Tyrod Taylor.

In comment 15900256 GMen72 said:

Quote:

In comment 15900180 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 15900099 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899899 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 15899844 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899600 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: Blueworm said: Quote: Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly. Blueworm said: Quote: Or pick another qb. Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better. Blueworm said: Quote: The numbers don't make sense. Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might. Actually, the best comp that's been mentioned to Daniel Jones is Tyrod Taylor. I'd bet their stats, as starters, are almost identical. If this is your argument, Tyrod taylor was paid 16m as a starter in 2018 where the highest qb contract was 38m. In 2023 the highest qb contract is going to be over 55m. So if you adjust for inflation sportrac isnt too far off. You guys keep doing this. Tannehill, Wentz, Taylor (hell, his career numbers aren't as good as Tannehill or Wentz?) were all terrible signings/contracts. Why would you want to repeat that? The writing is on the wall with Jones...4 years, and a severe lack of production. Why sign him to comps of terrible production/contracts? It makes no sense. Stop prolonging the inevitable...let him walk. Just don't repeat the mistakes other franchises have made with similar QBs. You keep saying that, but please name a realistic alternative. Drafting QB's over and over and over again has proven to not work. I'm not saying DJ is the answer, I just believe there's a middle of the road approach. The difference is, I understand that 30m next year is middle of the road and some dont. The salary cap is trending on going up another 8.4% next year which would put it around 225m. 30m is not alot anymore. Drafting QBs over and over? We're talking 1 QB and Dave Gettleman here...DJ was a reach at 6, and looks like a reach 4 years later. Yes, the next QB may not be the guy, but Jones isn't either. You're making decisions based on fear. You're content with 8-9 or 9-8...I want to see Schoen build a top 2-4 team in the NFL. I'm fine with 4-13 for a year or two (or 10) as long as this organization is trying to build something great. Paying $30 million for mediocrity isn't part of that equation. What if we draft the next Mahomes or Allen? What if we hit on a HOF QB? We hired Schoen to make better decisions than Gettleman...I believe he will until he doesn't. The faster you get the new guy in here, the faster he can be coached up and evaluated. Yes, he might be average too...but it's better than just sticking with the familiar because the familiar is slightly better than Tyrod Taylor.

We're in sync on this too. Look to build a dynasty. Find a best in class QB. Not some game manager that might win a division one day and most likely be one and done in the playoffs.

Only wr playing is a guy we tried to get rid of. Plus a rookie.

In comment 15900321 mdthedream said:

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Only wr playing is a guy we tried to get rid of. Plus a rookie.

Yea and I remember Chad Powers last game throwing 2 TDs and like 280 yards to a rookie -Slayton.

In comment 15900266 Producer said:

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In comment 15900256 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15900180 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 15900099 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899899 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 15899844 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899600 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: Blueworm said: Quote: Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly. Blueworm said: Quote: Or pick another qb. Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better. Blueworm said: Quote: The numbers don't make sense. Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might. Actually, the best comp that's been mentioned to Daniel Jones is Tyrod Taylor. I'd bet their stats, as starters, are almost identical. I'm fine with 4-13 for a year or two (or 10) as long as this organization is trying to build something great. Paying $30 million for mediocrity isn't part of that equation. What if we draft the next Mahomes or Allen? What if we hit on a HOF QB? We hired Schoen to make better decisions than Gettleman...I believe he will until he doesn't. The faster you get the new guy in here, the faster he can be coached up and evaluated. Yes, he might be average too...but it's better than just sticking with the familiar because the familiar is slightly better than Tyrod Taylor. We're in sync on this too. Look to build a dynasty. Find a best in class QB. Not some game manager that might win a division one day and most likely be one and done in the playoffs.

Those guys were top 10 picks. We won't have that. And what if we get one and draft the next Darnold, or Rosen, or Haskins, or Trubinsky, or Bortles, or Manziel, or Tannehill, or Ponder, or McCoy? You act like this is simple. It is a roll of the dice.

so many talking points. So much bullshit.

In comment 15900376 k2tampa said:

Quote:

In comment 15900266 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15900256 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15900180 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 15900099 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899899 outeiroj said: Quote: In comment 15899844 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15899600 Big Blue Blogger said: Quote: Blueworm said: Quote: Can put up similar numbers at a fraction of that price. Based on what? I like Taylor in theory too, but he has barely played since 2017. The one time he was pressed into service this year, he threw an interception and got knocked silly. Blueworm said: Quote: Or pick another qb. Well OK then. Problem solved. Because a quarterback selected where the Giants will be picking is sure to be better than Daniel Jones. Or maybe not, but at least he'll be cheaper, and in time he might be better. Blueworm said: Quote: The numbers don't make sense. Which numbers? The guesstimates from some blog with no inside information? Sure, those numbers probably wouldn't make sense, but the real numbers might. Actually, the best comp that's been mentioned to Daniel Jones is Tyrod Taylor. I'd bet their stats, as starters, are almost identical. I'm fine with 4-13 for a year or two (or 10) as long as this organization is trying to build something great. Paying $30 million for mediocrity isn't part of that equation. What if we draft the next Mahomes or Allen? What if we hit on a HOF QB? We hired Schoen to make better decisions than Gettleman...I believe he will until he doesn't. The faster you get the new guy in here, the faster he can be coached up and evaluated. Yes, he might be average too...but it's better than just sticking with the familiar because the familiar is slightly better than Tyrod Taylor. We're in sync on this too. Look to build a dynasty. Find a best in class QB. Not some game manager that might win a division one day and most likely be one and done in the playoffs. Those guys were top 10 picks. We won't have that. And what if we get one and draft the next Darnold, or Rosen, or Haskins, or Trubinsky, or Bortles, or Manziel, or Tannehill, or Ponder, or McCoy? You act like this is simple. It is a roll of the dice.

What if I told you Darnold has more passing yards and passing TDs than Jones and hasn't played this year? Trubisky and Tannehill have better numbers than DJ. We have a QB that belongs on the list you just made and you're still scared to move away from him?!?!

In comment 15900386 GMen72 said:

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In comment 15900376 k2tampa said: Quote: In comment 15900266 Producer said: Quote: I'm fine with 4-13 for a year or two (or 10) as long as this organization is trying to build something great. Paying $30 million for mediocrity isn't part of that equation. What if we draft the next Mahomes or Allen? What if we hit on a HOF QB? We hired Schoen to make better decisions than Gettleman...I believe he will until he doesn't. The faster you get the new guy in here, the faster he can be coached up and evaluated. Yes, he might be average too...but it's better than just sticking with the familiar because the familiar is slightly better than Tyrod Taylor. We're in sync on this too. Look to build a dynasty. Find a best in class QB. Not some game manager that might win a division one day and most likely be one and done in the playoffs. Those guys were top 10 picks. We won't have that. And what if we get one and draft the next Darnold, or Rosen, or Haskins, or Trubinsky, or Bortles, or Manziel, or Tannehill, or Ponder, or McCoy? You act like this is simple. It is a roll of the dice. What if I told you Darnold has more passing yards and passing TDs than Jones and hasn't played this year? Trubisky and Tannehill have better numbers than DJ. We have a QB that belongs on the list you just made and you're still scared to move away from him?!?!

What if I told you Jones' passer rating is 88, while Tannehill's is 92.8. Which one has better receivers? Name a receiver group in the league that you would refuse to take straight up in a swap for the Giants' receivers and tight ends. Jones' receivers have the highest drop rate in the NFL. And Trubinsky's rating is 80. And he got benched for a rookie.

As for Darnold and Jones. Well, Jones' completion percentage is 63.1 percent to Darnold's 59.8. Edge to Jones. Darnold has 10,624 yards to Jones' 9,797, but he has played 4 more games. Give Jones 190 yards for four games and they are basically even. Jones has 51 TDs to Darnold's 54, give him four more games and it's a wash. But Jones has 31 INTs to Darnold's 52, a huge edge for Jones. And Jones has thrown about 140 fewer passes. Jones also has run for 1,363 yards to Darnold's 639, with a 2 yard per carry edge.

Why don't people realize a QB on a run dominant team isn't going to put up big numbers. Guess you weren't around when Simms played. So let's check Jones versus Tannehill, another QB in a running attack. In 6 games Tannehill has 1,097 passing yards on 146 attempts, with a completion percentage of 65. He has 6 TDs and 3 INT. He has 29 yards rushing and one rushing TD, giving him 1,126 total yards and 7 TDs. Jones, in 8 games, has 1,399 yards passing, 6 TDs and 2 INTs on 220 attempts, with a completion percentage of 62. He has 363 yards rushing and 3 TDs, giving him 1,762 total yards and 9 TDs. So, Jones has 220 total yards per game and Tannehill has 188. Jones has 1.12 TDs per game. Tannehill has 1.17. And again, who has better receivers? Tannehill's team was the top seed in the AFC last year and made the playoffs the last three years.

The point isn't what Jones is, it's what you might find to replace him. Darnold was the 3rd pick. The Giants will be picking around 17 or 18 if not lower.

So, thanks for making my point that picking a QB in the draft is a crap shoot.

In comment 15899846 Mike from Ohio said:

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In comment 15899613 gidiefor said: Quote: when you compare the two players --- to me Taylor is strictly a back up - you do not want him running the Offense. So I don't care how much you pay him, please stay off the field. Jones is a starter. I think he can run an efficient offense and win games, but frankly he is not going to win you any trophies because if you take away his running ability, and you contain Barkley -- he can't do squat. Championship teams are going to be able to do that. We were lucky to beat Tennessee - it was the first game of the season and I think the Giants surprised them. That game was a shocker. When you look at the GB Win now in retrospect -- everyone is beating them -- even with Rogers -- they are not a good team right now. The Baltimore game was all about Wink Martindale. The two championship teams the Giants played this year were the Cowboys and Seattle. Against Dallas, the back up QB looked better than Jones. Against Seattle Geno Smith looked better than Jones. When Philly and Dallas swallow again -- is that going to be acceptable football? I know the argument is he needs WRs, and maybe that's true, but no-one really knows if that's true. That's the conjecture part; and you are going to have to pay through the ear to find out. What we do know is that this season, when Jones loses his ability to run, he looks pretty ordinary. He does not look like a champion under those circumstances. Very good summary.

+1. Excellent analysis, although Jones has led a lot of fourth quarter comebacks this year. He was definitely more than a "game manager" in those victories, and his WRs and TEs are subpar. For those reasons, I want to see how the rest of the season plays out before making a final decision on Jones.

But I also think that unless he collapses completely, he will have many teams willing to offer him a long-term contract. The Giants will then be forced to use the FT on him if they want to keep him.

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What if I told you Darnold has more passing yards and passing TDs than Jones and hasn't played this year? Trubisky and Tannehill have better numbers than DJ. We have a QB that belongs on the list you just made and you're still scared to move away from him?!?! What if I told you Jones' passer rating is 88, while Tannehill's is 92.8. Which one has better receivers? Name a receiver group in the league that you would refuse to take straight up in a swap for the Giants' receivers and tight ends. Jones' receivers have the highest drop rate in the NFL. And Trubinsky's rating is 80. And he got benched for a rookie. As for Darnold and Jones. Well, Jones' completion percentage is 63.1 percent to Darnold's 59.8. Edge to Jones. Darnold has 10,624 yards to Jones' 9,797, but he has played 4 more games. Give Jones 190 yards for four games and they are basically even. Jones has 51 TDs to Darnold's 54, give him four more games and it's a wash. But Jones has 31 INTs to Darnold's 52, a huge edge for Jones. And Jones has thrown about 140 fewer passes. Jones also has run for 1,363 yards to Darnold's 639, with a 2 yard per carry edge. Why don't people realize a QB on a run dominant team isn't going to put up big numbers. Guess you weren't around when Simms played. So let's check Jones versus Tannehill, another QB in a running attack. In 6 games Tannehill has 1,097 passing yards on 146 attempts, with a completion percentage of 65. He has 6 TDs and 3 INT. He has 29 yards rushing and one rushing TD, giving him 1,126 total yards and 7 TDs. Jones, in 8 games, has 1,399 yards passing, 6 TDs and 2 INTs on 220 attempts, with a completion percentage of 62. He has 363 yards rushing and 3 TDs, giving him 1,762 total yards and 9 TDs. So, Jones has 220 total yards per game and Tannehill has 188. Jones has 1.12 TDs per game. Tannehill has 1.17. And again, who has better receivers? Tannehill's team was the top seed in the AFC last year and made the playoffs the last three years. The point isn't what Jones is, it's what you might find to replace him. Darnold was the 3rd pick. The Giants will be picking around 17 or 18 if not lower. So, thanks for making my point that picking a QB in the draft is a crap shoot.

Translation from the jones Crew: I like D. Jones for emotional reasons that I cannot possibly quantify ona football field so I will use passive aggreessive talk from the side of my mouth to make the case for Jones even though no case can really be made for Jones.

First off Tannehill is pretty much in a whole echelon of QB above where D Jones is. He has not played even all the games this season and is currently injured. 2 years ago he threw like what 33 TDs? Jones hasn't even yet to sniff those numbers and by the looks of things he never will.

Also, no one really knows what the Giants have in receivers. Richie James , Slayton , and Shep are pretty goof receivers. Not T. Hill but somewhere in the middle. That doesn't even include that we don't really know what we have / had in Toney, Golliday and Wan Dal.

Aaron Rodgers and Dan Marino were drafted in the 20s. So it works both ways.

Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem.

In comment 15900460 k2tampa said:

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In comment 15900386 GMen72 said: Quote: In comment 15900376 k2tampa said: Quote: In comment 15900266 Producer said: Quote: I'm fine with 4-13 for a year or two (or 10) as long as this organization is trying to build something great. Paying $30 million for mediocrity isn't part of that equation. What if we draft the next Mahomes or Allen? What if we hit on a HOF QB? We hired Schoen to make better decisions than Gettleman...I believe he will until he doesn't. The faster you get the new guy in here, the faster he can be coached up and evaluated. Yes, he might be average too...but it's better than just sticking with the familiar because the familiar is slightly better than Tyrod Taylor. We're in sync on this too. Look to build a dynasty. Find a best in class QB. Not some game manager that might win a division one day and most likely be one and done in the playoffs. Those guys were top 10 picks. We won't have that. And what if we get one and draft the next Darnold, or Rosen, or Haskins, or Trubinsky, or Bortles, or Manziel, or Tannehill, or Ponder, or McCoy? You act like this is simple. It is a roll of the dice. What if I told you Darnold has more passing yards and passing TDs than Jones and hasn't played this year? Trubisky and Tannehill have better numbers than DJ. We have a QB that belongs on the list you just made and you're still scared to move away from him?!?! What if I told you Jones' passer rating is 88, while Tannehill's is 92.8. Which one has better receivers? Name a receiver group in the league that you would refuse to take straight up in a swap for the Giants' receivers and tight ends. Jones' receivers have the highest drop rate in the NFL. And Trubinsky's rating is 80. And he got benched for a rookie. As for Darnold and Jones. Well, Jones' completion percentage is 63.1 percent to Darnold's 59.8. Edge to Jones. Darnold has 10,624 yards to Jones' 9,797, but he has played 4 more games. Give Jones 190 yards for four games and they are basically even. Jones has 51 TDs to Darnold's 54, give him four more games and it's a wash. But Jones has 31 INTs to Darnold's 52, a huge edge for Jones. And Jones has thrown about 140 fewer passes. Jones also has run for 1,363 yards to Darnold's 639, with a 2 yard per carry edge. Why don't people realize a QB on a run dominant team isn't going to put up big numbers. Guess you weren't around when Simms played. So let's check Jones versus Tannehill, another QB in a running attack. In 6 games Tannehill has 1,097 passing yards on 146 attempts, with a completion percentage of 65. He has 6 TDs and 3 INT. He has 29 yards rushing and one rushing TD, giving him 1,126 total yards and 7 TDs. Jones, in 8 games, has 1,399 yards passing, 6 TDs and 2 INTs on 220 attempts, with a completion percentage of 62. He has 363 yards rushing and 3 TDs, giving him 1,762 total yards and 9 TDs. So, Jones has 220 total yards per game and Tannehill has 188. Jones has 1.12 TDs per game. Tannehill has 1.17. And again, who has better receivers? Tannehill's team was the top seed in the AFC last year and made the playoffs the last three years. The point isn't what Jones is, it's what you might find to replace him. Darnold was the 3rd pick. The Giants will be picking around 17 or 18 if not lower. So, thanks for making my point that picking a QB in the draft is a crap shoot.

We're a run dominated team because we can't pass the ball with authority.

In comment 15900502 k2tampa said:

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Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem.

Titans

In comment 15900502 k2tampa said:

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Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem.

Why bother ? You will just argue incessantly that the Giants one is worse when they are really just average. And I would bet Aaron Rodgers would do quite a bit of good here what do you think Jones would do on this years Packers?

In comment 15900531 Atari2600 said:

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In comment 15900502 k2tampa said: Quote: Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem. Why bother ? You will just argue incessantly that the Giants one is worse when they are really just average. And I would bet Aaron Rodgers would do quite a bit of good here what do you think Jones would do on this years Packers?

I would gladly take the Packers wide receivers and tight ends over ours. I don't care who the QB is. Bigger, faster WRs who get separation, and tight ends who can block and catch.

Packers receivers are terrible as are Bears Colts, Commanders , Lions, Texans, jaguars.

Until a better alternative presents itself. That’s the truth and I root for the kid, I love what he is made of, but he isn’t gonna compete with the Josh Allen’s and Pat Mahomes of the world. It’s plain and simple. The giants will roll with Jones until they can find what they are looking for. Daboll and Schoen don’t seem like the type to settle and we should all be happy about that

But it doesn’t make you less of a fan to speak the truth. Now some of you here act like you want the kid to fall on his face and that I don’t understand. If he’s wearing blue, I root for him all day.

In comment 15900528 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 15900502 k2tampa said: Quote: Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem. Titans

It’s not all the recievers there are plays out there to be made and he’s afraid to pull the trigger. His legs are helping him play well but he is still a bit hun shy and that’s tough to fix

In comment 15900460 k2tampa said:

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In comment 15900386 GMen72 said: What if I told you Darnold has more passing yards and passing TDs than Jones and hasn't played this year? Trubisky and Tannehill have better numbers than DJ. We have a QB that belongs on the list you just made and you're still scared to move away from him?!?! What if I told you Jones' passer rating is 88, while Tannehill's is 92.8. Which one has better receivers? Name a receiver group in the league that you would refuse to take straight up in a swap for the Giants' receivers and tight ends. Jones' receivers have the highest drop rate in the NFL. And Trubinsky's rating is 80. And he got benched for a rookie. As for Darnold and Jones. Well, Jones' completion percentage is 63.1 percent to Darnold's 59.8. Edge to Jones. Darnold has 10,624 yards to Jones' 9,797, but he has played 4 more games. Give Jones 190 yards for four games and they are basically even. Jones has 51 TDs to Darnold's 54, give him four more games and it's a wash. But Jones has 31 INTs to Darnold's 52, a huge edge for Jones. And Jones has thrown about 140 fewer passes. Jones also has run for 1,363 yards to Darnold's 639, with a 2 yard per carry edge. Why don't people realize a QB on a run dominant team isn't going to put up big numbers. Guess you weren't around when Simms played. So let's check Jones versus Tannehill, another QB in a running attack. In 6 games Tannehill has 1,097 passing yards on 146 attempts, with a completion percentage of 65. He has 6 TDs and 3 INT. He has 29 yards rushing and one rushing TD, giving him 1,126 total yards and 7 TDs. Jones, in 8 games, has 1,399 yards passing, 6 TDs and 2 INTs on 220 attempts, with a completion percentage of 62. He has 363 yards rushing and 3 TDs, giving him 1,762 total yards and 9 TDs. So, Jones has 220 total yards per game and Tannehill has 188. Jones has 1.12 TDs per game. Tannehill has 1.17. And again, who has better receivers? Tannehill's team was the top seed in the AFC last year and made the playoffs the last three years. The point isn't what Jones is, it's what you might find to replace him. Darnold was the 3rd pick. The Giants will be picking around 17 or 18 if not lower. So, thanks for making my point that picking a QB in the draft is a crap shoot.

Just gonna use one year of stats, huh? Why don't you compare DJ to the year Tannehill had 3700 yards and 33 TDs. Yeah, can't make that argument, can ya?

The fact that you're trying to convince me that Jones is better than Tannehill or Darnold should make you pause and ask yourself WTF you're thinking? Because the Titans wasted money resigning Tannehill, doesn't meant the Giants should make the same mistake.

So, with that essay, you basically came to the conclusion that DJ is about the same, or worse, than Darnold and Tannehill...but want to give him $30 million because you're too scared to see if anyone could be better than Jones?

Stop living in fear, trust Schoen, and stop trying to overpay another Darnold. There are a QBs better than DJ just waiting to be drafted.

In comment 15900531 Atari2600 said:

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In comment 15900502 k2tampa said: Quote: Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem. Why bother ? You will just argue incessantly that the Giants one is worse when they are really just average. And I would bet Aaron Rodgers would do quite a bit of good here what do you think Jones would do on this years Packers?

Jones is having a better season so far than Rodgers is.

In comment 15900646 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 15900531 Atari2600 said: Quote: In comment 15900502 k2tampa said: Quote: Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem. Why bother ? You will just argue incessantly that the Giants one is worse when they are really just average. And I would bet Aaron Rodgers would do quite a bit of good here what do you think Jones would do on this years Packers? Jones is having a better season so far than Rodgers is.

\\Tell you what when D Jones has won a SB ring, multiple MVPs , is a first ballot hall of famer, and is still playing at 40 years old ; then you can tell me Jones is better . And by then who really cares?

Also no one finds it kind of strange to point out this amazing year D Jones is having and comparing him to other QBs ? First off, Barkley is so obviously the focal point of this offense. Secondly, when was the last time He thrown say 2TDs and 300 yards in a game? And don't tell he could but this or that? I have see a 40 year old Chad powers ; with these Receivers ; an even worse o line ; an even worse defense; much worse coaching do it.

In comment 15900630 Bleedblue10 said:

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In comment 15900528 ajr2456 said: Quote: In comment 15900502 k2tampa said: Quote: Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem. Titans It’s not all the recievers there are plays out there to be made and he’s afraid to pull the trigger. His legs are helping him play well but he is still a bit hun shy and that’s tough to fix

Do you know what play was called? Do you know what the first option was? The second? If the first option is open you take it, you don't look for options two and three. If option 1 is covered and the pocket is collapsing and you can run for 8 or 10 yards, that's what this offense wants him to do. That's part of the reason he only has 2 INTs (one because Sills fell). I'll take a boring 6-2 and two INTs with a rebuilding, injury riddled team over 3-5 with 8 INTs any day.

In comment 15900651 Atari2600 said:

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In comment 15900646 UConn4523 said: Quote: In comment 15900531 Atari2600 said: Quote: In comment 15900502 k2tampa said: Quote: Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem. Why bother ? You will just argue incessantly that the Giants one is worse when they are really just average. And I would bet Aaron Rodgers would do quite a bit of good here what do you think Jones would do on this years Packers? Jones is having a better season so far than Rodgers is. \\Tell you what when D Jones has won a SB ring, multiple MVPs , is a first ballot hall of famer, and is still playing at 40 years old ; then you can tell me Jones is better . And by then who really cares? Also no one finds it kind of strange to point out this amazing year D Jones is having and comparing him to other QBs ? First off, Barkley is so obviously the focal point of this offense. Secondly, when was the last time He thrown say 2TDs and 300 yards in a game? And don't tell he could but this or that? I have see a 40 year old Chad powers ; with these Receivers ; an even worse o line ; an even worse defense; much worse coaching do it.

I'm just pointing out that Rodgers, on what I consider to be a better situation, isn't having as good a year as Jones is. That's it, hard stop. Their age and career achievements have nothing to do with 2022.

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I'm just pointing out that Rodgers, on what I consider to be a better situation, isn't having as good a year as Jones is. That's it, hard stop. Their age and career achievements have nothing to do with 2022.

Where are you guys coming up with this Bullshit from? D Jones has 1399 yards which rank him like 24th and 6 TDs which ranks him tied for 25th.

Aaron Rodgers has 2091 yards and puts him in 8th place in that category, and 16 TDs tied for 7th.

Yea I am sure you are going to pull some Next gen stat from lord knows where to make your case but, when I was collecting football cards as a wee lad those numbers mattered. And further, that is pretty much where I would roughly rate both QBs. Jones in the bottom 1/3 of the league and Rodgers in the top 1/4. Given his legendary play it is far more believable that a bad receiver corp /roster/coaching has held him back or maybe he just lost a step with age.

No matter for Jones it has always been this excuse. I can imagine his peers at Duke: "So where are you going to work after graduation?" "Goldman Sachs." "This small elite hedge fund in Connecticut". JOnes...." NY Giants". "Front office?" "No QB " like what?


Look it's been a great start against some teams that have proven to be not-so-good this year or coming off a weird time like the Titans in week1 or a lucky break with Lamar having a brain fart. You think they would have won with Lamar playing like he was last night?

In comment 15900528 ajr2456 said:

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In comment 15900502 k2tampa said: Quote: Name a group of wide receivers and tight ends on any NFL team that you would reject in a straight up swap for the Giants' group. You can even add Golladay and Shepard if you want. It ought to be easy for anyone who think Jones is the problem. Titans

So you would take Slayton and Myarick over Woods and Hooper?

In comment 15900565 Atari2600 said:

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Packers receivers are terrible as are Bears Colts, Commanders , Lions, Texans, jaguars.

This is why people ignore you

If you are only going off passing stats then don’t bother responding. And I’m as big a Rodgers fan as there is on this board, for the record.

Jones has done well as one-man band. You have to ask yourself, "is there any other option" other than another 30 million dollar veteran? How is that going in Denver?
I bet Jones would sign at discount-sort of like how TB12 took a cut to keep people. Maybe offer Saquon and Jones a twofer-you both return for this offer. I mean, he will get millions regardless. Or he gets NO bid out there for 30 mill.

In comment 15899841 Lines of Scrimmage said:

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In comment 15899808 k2tampa said: Quote: In comment 15899799 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: In comment 15899791 Producer said: Quote: In comment 15899788 Lines of Scrimmage said: Quote: I am with you on the compensation side. Just because the market sets a trend does not mean you have to follow that trend. The market dictates the compensation. Not you. And not the Giants. Read what I wrote. If you don't pay market value, you will really be in quarterback hell. Do you think someone is going to come to the most expensive places in the country to live at below market value. Really glad you're not running this team. So if a team places a value of "whatever" on a particular QB then all teams should follow suit? Okay then.

The player (and his agent) get a vote on the contract, too. And if the player is a free agent, so do the other 31 teams - they represent "the market."

The market will dictate DJ's worth. And DJ will have a vote in his own value as well when he chooses where to sign.

The only way the Giants can unilaterally shut out the market and Jones is with the franchise tag, and even that has its price rooted in - you guessed it! - the market.