Do you think Schoen called up the scouts this morning and told them not to waste time scouting college QBs because they are set there for the foreseeable future?
Even you know that didn't happen. So why do you believe fans should not talk about it?
in the NFL and had to have one of them to lead you the rest of this season, my guess is that DJ is somewhere between 10-15 on the list. If you had to choose someone to lead you for the next five years, my guess is he is still 10-15, with just a different group in front of him.
If healthy he has fallen in that range his entire career, maybe 15-20, unlikley to break the top 10. The idea that we don't know what we have in DJ really did not make sense last year, and is silly this year. He is a mid-range NFL starter. Good enough to win, not good enough to be why you win. Good enough to keep if the contract is right, but the price of the contract is going up every week. 6 weeks ago I would have happily signed him to 3/$60 and thought he might take it. You would be lucky to get him at 3/$90 at this point.
Hope I am wrong and he is better than that, or that we can get him back cheaper, if we want him. But that is the lay of the land as I see it.
NYG are and should be actively scouting college QBs
Those who think otherwise don't know what they're watching.
I agree. They should try to develop a QB for the backup role if they think of themselves as QB savvy coaches. They probably should have drafted one previously instead of signing Taylor.
Staff does not ask Jonesbto do things he is not good at. It's really that simple, design a game plan around what he and the rest of the offense does well. That is what they are doing and Jones has played very well in this system.
RE: If you lined up all the QBs currently starting
in the NFL and had to have one of them to lead you the rest of this season, my guess is that DJ is somewhere between 10-15 on the list. If you had to choose someone to lead you for the next five years, my guess is he is still 10-15, with just a different group in front of him.
If healthy he has fallen in that range his entire career, maybe 15-20, unlikley to break the top 10. The idea that we don't know what we have in DJ really did not make sense last year, and is silly this year. He is a mid-range NFL starter. Good enough to win, not good enough to be why you win. Good enough to keep if the contract is right, but the price of the contract is going up every week. 6 weeks ago I would have happily signed him to 3/$60 and thought he might take it. You would be lucky to get him at 3/$90 at this point.
Hope I am wrong and he is better than that, or that we can get him back cheaper, if we want him. But that is the lay of the land as I see it.
I agree with you though I think 3year $75-80mil with incentives on top gets it done and is fair to both sides. He's going to want more than 2years to sign anything but he hasn't proven enough to merit a BIG contract. Also don't think he'll have many suitors willing to pay more than that.
WRs - well below average
Rushing (RBs/QB) - way above average
OL - MUCH, MUCH better at run blocking than pass blocking
And they play/will play in cold weather
Why is it so hard to understand that the game plan should revolve around running the ball? I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that. Stop comparing this team to other NFL teams and using the words “not sustainable.” They are 7-2. Obviously it is.
Jones will never throw for 300+ yards and 3 TDs when he has 20 passing attempts per game. It’s just not going to happen. No QB would. Brady, who leads the league, has almost double the attempts that Jones has.
Meanwhile, he is doing everything necessary to win games for the giants.
I’ll never understand the people on here.
RE: If you lined up all the QBs currently starting
in the NFL and had to have one of them to lead you the rest of this season, my guess is that DJ is somewhere between 10-15 on the list. If you had to choose someone to lead you for the next five years, my guess is he is still 10-15, with just a different group in front of him.
If healthy he has fallen in that range his entire career, maybe 15-20, unlikley to break the top 10. The idea that we don't know what we have in DJ really did not make sense last year, and is silly this year. He is a mid-range NFL starter. Good enough to win, not good enough to be why you win. Good enough to keep if the contract is right, but the price of the contract is going up every week. 6 weeks ago I would have happily signed him to 3/$60 and thought he might take it. You would be lucky to get him at 3/$90 at this point.
Hope I am wrong and he is better than that, or that we can get him back cheaper, if we want him. But that is the lay of the land as I see it.
'Been thinking about this for a few weeks now. I would go with a two year deal starting at $30MM the first year, then $35MM the second year. I'd have a team option at $40MM for year three. If he can get something better than that, then bless his heart and more power to him. But I don't think he'll get something significantly better than that. I think Shoen will start his negotiations below those figures obviously, but those would be my red lines.
RE: two year deal starting at $30MM the first year … $35MM the second
What we are witnessing is a coaching staff that is running an offense completely tailored to Jones' strengths and weaknesses. It's such a simple offense and once we play a good defense, Jones won't be able to move the ball. He still has poor pocket presence and a poor ability to read a defense and know where to go with the ball when his first read isn't there.
The Giants need to upgrade the QB if they want to take the next step from playoff team to true contender.
WRs - well below average
Rushing (RBs/QB) - way above average
OL - MUCH, MUCH better at run blocking than pass blocking
And they play/will play in cold weather
Why is it so hard to understand that the game plan should revolve around running the ball? I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that. Stop comparing this team to other NFL teams and using the words “not sustainable.” They are 7-2. Obviously it is.
Jones will never throw for 300+ yards and 3 TDs when he has 20 passing attempts per game. It’s just not going to happen. No QB would. Brady, who leads the league, has almost double the attempts that Jones has.
Meanwhile, he is doing everything necessary to win games for the giants.
I’ll never understand the people on here.
Yes and it's exactly why the Giants won't win in the playoffs.
RE: RE: two year deal starting at $30MM the first year … $35MM the second
If Jones is not resigned or tagged, some team will sign him for a much better deal than that.
Jones is finally in a system in which he is being used correctly. Do you think he is anxious to move somewhere else and possibly regress?
I think the terms above are absolutely fair. I don't think any team in FS is going to look at Jones as their long-term answer and pay him top tier QB money. He is playing well in a run-first system that has an elite RB. He is playing smart, error-free football. He is not being asked to carry the offense and I don't think any team looking for that will offer him anything more than a short term deal to bridge them to their next QB.
RE: NYG are and should be actively scouting college QBs
Those who think otherwise don't know what they're watching.
They are scouting everyone. That’s their effing job. And they could realistically lose Jones now even if they want him back-so they damn well better. You’re saying the sky is blue. Congrats.
The only chance you have to win with a guy like Jones
is on his rookie deal. Once you pay him 30-35 million, the team is done. He needs to perfect cast around him to succeed and that only happens if he's making minimal cap dollars.
the coaching staff doesn't trust Jones. They never go for it at the end of the half and they run an extremely conservative offense. Now part of that is definitely the WR's and OL, but part of it is also because they don't trust Jones.
RE: The only chance you have to win with a guy like Jones
is on his rookie deal. Once you pay him 30-35 million, the team is done. He needs to perfect cast around him to succeed and that only happens if he's making minimal cap dollars.
Perfect cast to succeed?? What has he done this year?
For the last 2 years all I heard was how Herbert could step into Jones situation and elevate everyone around him. He looked like dogshit last night with his 2 starting WRs out.
Jones just needs NFL players to make plays...like most other QBs in the NFL.
They know what they have and are adapting an offense based on that. We are not taking shots down the field or giving Jones many reads. For as little as we are doing in the passing game is QBR better be high. If we are going to take that next step we need to get more out of our offense and I am not sure if Jones is the guy that can do that.
Those who think otherwise don't know what they're watching.
They are scouting everyone. That’s their effing job. And they could realistically lose Jones now even if they want him back-so they damn well better. You’re saying the sky is blue. Congrats.
I'm saying believing Jones is the QB to lead NYG to SB wins will be proven off-target. I'm not remotely afraid to lose or replace Jones.
I think he is trending toward being back next year at a number that will make some uncomfortable. That said, it is a little disingenuous to use his INT numbers when he isn't asked to throw the ball often or very far past the LOS. It's no different than pointing at his volume numbers when arguing against him.
If the Giants aren't scouting college QB this year, they should be fired. If Jones were a slamdunk they would have started negotiating at the bye.
RE: RE: RE: NYG are and should be actively scouting college QBs
Those who think otherwise don't know what they're watching.
They are scouting everyone. That’s their effing job. And they could realistically lose Jones now even if they want him back-so they damn well better. You’re saying the sky is blue. Congrats.
I'm saying believing Jones is the QB to lead NYG to SB wins will be proven off-target. I'm not remotely afraid to lose or replace Jones.
Thats a high mark for a QB. Lot of great QBs will never win a SB or even get there.
What we are witnessing is a coaching staff that is running an offense completely tailored to Jones' strengths and weaknesses. It's such a simple offense and once we play a good defense, Jones won't be able to move the ball. He still has poor pocket presence and a poor ability to read a defense and know where to go with the ball when his first read isn't there.
I think you are completely wrong on his reads. He was calling plays at the LoS yesterday. You could hear him making the calls just before the snap. Put it to bed. I did not see any reads that he made yesterday that were wrong. And this one read and done is a crock of crap. I have seen a few videos where the analyst shows Jones looking off safeties or going threw his progressions.
And if you do not think running wins in the playoffs - look at the 1991 super bowl. It depends on how the team is built.
RE: RE: two year deal starting at $30MM the first year … $35MM the second
If Jones is not resigned or tagged, some team will sign him for a much better deal than that.
Because you'd basically be guaranteeing him two tags up front. It's a tiny bit below the tag value (and the tag value +20% for year two on the tag), but it guarantees both years. If DJ plateaus in 2023 even with a better supporting cast, he could find himself in no-man's land for 2024.
It really depends how much Team Jones is willing to bet on himself and how aware he is about his dependence on the roster that surrounds him. He could, instead, be offered the franchise tag and create a scenario where Barkley leaves in FA. Would DJ look as good in 2023 without Barkley? Now let's add just one extra variable to that - let's say Thomas' ankle acts up in 2023 to go along with Barkley being gone. Do you think Team Jones would feel really confident about DJ's ability to earn a substantial contract on the tag with those two key pieces out of the mix?
I'm not saying that DJ should or would accept the contract that is proposed here, but I can think of a few reasonable scenarios where it could be viewed as a win/win. At a minimum, it puts DJ's price tag in line with the market rates - that perception is very valuable for DJ's earning potential going forward. Conversely, if he bets on himself and ends up in the journeyman/bridge tier for 2024, that's a much harder perception to wash off.
Personally, I don't see any compromise contracts for DJ. I think there are only three realistic scenarios as of right now:
1) Giants sign DJ long-term (4+ years). AAV will be at/above $30MM. This is the scenario if JS/BD are comfortable with what they've seen from DJ and confident in him going forward.
2) Giants tag DJ for 2023 and then re-evaluate for 2024 and beyond. This is the scenario is JS/BD are encouraged by some of what DJ has done this year, but still have too much uncertainty (whether that's due to scheme, to lack of weapons, or to DJ himself, or any combination of those).
3) Giants let DJ test free agency unencumbered, and potentially let him walk. This is the scenario where JS/BD feel like they have gameplanned around DJ's skill set all year and would prefer to find a QB who is more naturally aligned with what they want to do offensively.
The third scenario is the only one where I could even fathom DJ accepting a compromise contract (either fewer years, lower AAV, or both), and would only happen if the rest of the league also viewed DJ unfavorably (in terms of contract value).
RE: The only QB in the top ten with fewer TDs is Cooper Rush
What we are witnessing is a coaching staff that is running an offense completely tailored to Jones' strengths and weaknesses. It's such a simple offense and once we play a good defense, Jones won't be able to move the ball. He still has poor pocket presence and a poor ability to read a defense and know where to go with the ball when his first read isn't there.
I think you are completely wrong on his reads. He was calling plays at the LoS yesterday. You could hear him making the calls just before the snap. Put it to bed. I did not see any reads that he made yesterday that were wrong. And this one read and done is a crock of crap. I have seen a few videos where the analyst shows Jones looking off safeties or going threw his progressions.
And if you do not think running wins in the playoffs - look at the 1991 super bowl. It depends on how the team is built.
I disagree completely. Can you show me these videos? Its pretty obvious to me for the most part. It's not every single play, but the majority of plays where his first read isn't open, he panics and either runs of throws a bad pass. He's like a poor mans RG3, IMO.
What we are witnessing is a coaching staff that is running an offense completely tailored to Jones' strengths and weaknesses. It's such a simple offense and once we play a good defense, Jones won't be able to move the ball. He still has poor pocket presence and a poor ability to read a defense and know where to go with the ball when his first read isn't there.
The Giants need to upgrade the QB if they want to take the next step from playoff team to true contender.
Or it could be a coaching staff running an offense tailored to the "team" strengths (crappy WR's, lousy IOL pass blocking, great RB, mobile QB), and it has nothing to do with Jones weaknesses. It is just as reasonable to think that Jones is "playing within himself" to run the offense the team needs to run, and could also run an offense that is more pass happy and open
not only will the Giants not be anywhere near the top of the draft, but there will be 3-4 teams absolutely desperate to find their QB, such as Carolina, Houston, and perhaps Detroit. They will not trade their pick even if the Giants wanted to move up.
Jones will be the QB next year, its just a matter of whether Schoen likes Jones long term.
during obvious passing situations. Meanwhile, you have the highest paid player on the team dropping routine balls and Olinemen jumping offsides on short yardage 3rd downs
There is so little room for error that Jones gets shit for missing one pass that Slayton was open on...and on the next play DJ threw a dime to a WR who just got picked up off the streets.
I can see Jones back next year, a combination of a strong season and a playoff spot for NYG vs not wanting to wait until the draft to secure another QB, add in continuity factor of Jones + Taylor for another season of building up the foundation. I do think the lack of negotiations to this point look like a tell at this stage, while everyone waits to see how he performs vs the best in the NFL down the stretch.
I can see Jones back next year, a combination of a strong season and a playoff spot for NYG vs not wanting to wait until the draft to secure another QB, add in continuity factor of Jones + Taylor for another season of building up the foundation. I do think the lack of negotiations to this point look like a tell at this stage, while everyone waits to see how he performs vs the best in the NFL down the stretch.
I think the odds of Jones being back are around 20-30%.
I don't think this passing offense performance / record discrepancy is sustainable (and not all of that passing offense production performance is on Jones, of course).
and view that as a comparison, without looking into the offenses being run. I mean Davis Mills through the ball 37 times for 319 yds yesterday, does anyone think he played better than Jones?
to running success by a QB. And Jones is doing that very well. So, I wouldn't look at the result as a reflection of Jones's passing production only. Because it isn't.
Nevertheless, by QBR standards, he is currently playing top ten football.
But there is no reason to stop scouting QB prospects who are more physically gifted than Jones.
What we are seeing is a perfect collision of play-calling exploiting what Jones can do and Jones executing that plan.
RE: RE: RE: Do you really think Jones is the answer?
What we are witnessing is a coaching staff that is running an offense completely tailored to Jones' strengths and weaknesses. It's such a simple offense and once we play a good defense, Jones won't be able to move the ball. He still has poor pocket presence and a poor ability to read a defense and know where to go with the ball when his first read isn't there.
I think you are completely wrong on his reads. He was calling plays at the LoS yesterday. You could hear him making the calls just before the snap. Put it to bed. I did not see any reads that he made yesterday that were wrong. And this one read and done is a crock of crap. I have seen a few videos where the analyst shows Jones looking off safeties or going threw his progressions.
And if you do not think running wins in the playoffs - look at the 1991 super bowl. It depends on how the team is built.
I disagree completely. Can you show me these videos? Its pretty obvious to me for the most part. It's not every single play, but the majority of plays where his first read isn't open, he panics and either runs of throws a bad pass. He's like a poor mans RG3, IMO.
Look it up yourself - Baldy and Simms(IIRC) and I believe Skinner. I do not dwell on things too long.
Are you an NFL scout? Did you play college football as QB? For a guy with 66% completion and only 2 INTs, pretty hard to say he panics and makes bad throws on a majority of plays.
I have heard this "he can't make reads" from BBI, but I have not seen outside evidence. You may be right and analysts just keep it to themselves. IDK
I did not play, so I cannot confidently say he can or cannot read - but I can see him stand there for quite a while before he leaves the pocket. So the panic part is BS. He absolutely has his limitations. I think they will move on as much because of the cost of retaining him as a middle of the pack QB. They can likely retain 3 or 4 guys for what it would cost to keep him.
...unless it is some sort of crowning. I still believe that Dabes and Schoen have had a plan since last Spring. I believe that DJ is part of that plan...I also believe that QB1 2023/24 may be found in the draft next Spring.
I do think the lack of negotiations to this point look like a tell at this stage, while everyone waits to see how he performs vs the best in the NFL down the stretch.
This is an important point that a lot of people are ignoring. If they were 100% sold on him there would have been negotiations like there were with Love and Barkley. Jones may be back next year, but the odds aren’t as high as people want to think they are - and the odds of a long term deal are probably lower.
Who wants to trade him?
Even you know that didn't happen. So why do you believe fans should not talk about it?
Which game was it that Barkley hurt his shoulder and was out for the game tying or winning drive? That was his best.
Baltimore?
If healthy he has fallen in that range his entire career, maybe 15-20, unlikley to break the top 10. The idea that we don't know what we have in DJ really did not make sense last year, and is silly this year. He is a mid-range NFL starter. Good enough to win, not good enough to be why you win. Good enough to keep if the contract is right, but the price of the contract is going up every week. 6 weeks ago I would have happily signed him to 3/$60 and thought he might take it. You would be lucky to get him at 3/$90 at this point.
Hope I am wrong and he is better than that, or that we can get him back cheaper, if we want him. But that is the lay of the land as I see it.
I agree. They should try to develop a QB for the backup role if they think of themselves as QB savvy coaches. They probably should have drafted one previously instead of signing Taylor.
If healthy he has fallen in that range his entire career, maybe 15-20, unlikley to break the top 10. The idea that we don't know what we have in DJ really did not make sense last year, and is silly this year. He is a mid-range NFL starter. Good enough to win, not good enough to be why you win. Good enough to keep if the contract is right, but the price of the contract is going up every week. 6 weeks ago I would have happily signed him to 3/$60 and thought he might take it. You would be lucky to get him at 3/$90 at this point.
Hope I am wrong and he is better than that, or that we can get him back cheaper, if we want him. But that is the lay of the land as I see it.
I agree with you though I think 3year $75-80mil with incentives on top gets it done and is fair to both sides. He's going to want more than 2years to sign anything but he hasn't proven enough to merit a BIG contract. Also don't think he'll have many suitors willing to pay more than that.
Rushing (RBs/QB) - way above average
OL - MUCH, MUCH better at run blocking than pass blocking
And they play/will play in cold weather
Why is it so hard to understand that the game plan should revolve around running the ball? I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that. Stop comparing this team to other NFL teams and using the words “not sustainable.” They are 7-2. Obviously it is.
Jones will never throw for 300+ yards and 3 TDs when he has 20 passing attempts per game. It’s just not going to happen. No QB would. Brady, who leads the league, has almost double the attempts that Jones has.
Meanwhile, he is doing everything necessary to win games for the giants.
I’ll never understand the people on here.
If healthy he has fallen in that range his entire career, maybe 15-20, unlikley to break the top 10. The idea that we don't know what we have in DJ really did not make sense last year, and is silly this year. He is a mid-range NFL starter. Good enough to win, not good enough to be why you win. Good enough to keep if the contract is right, but the price of the contract is going up every week. 6 weeks ago I would have happily signed him to 3/$60 and thought he might take it. You would be lucky to get him at 3/$90 at this point.
Hope I am wrong and he is better than that, or that we can get him back cheaper, if we want him. But that is the lay of the land as I see it.
'Been thinking about this for a few weeks now. I would go with a two year deal starting at $30MM the first year, then $35MM the second year. I'd have a team option at $40MM for year three. If he can get something better than that, then bless his heart and more power to him. But I don't think he'll get something significantly better than that. I think Shoen will start his negotiations below those figures obviously, but those would be my red lines.
If Jones is not resigned or tagged, some team will sign him for a much better deal than that.
The Giants need to upgrade the QB if they want to take the next step from playoff team to true contender.
Rushing (RBs/QB) - way above average
OL - MUCH, MUCH better at run blocking than pass blocking
And they play/will play in cold weather
Why is it so hard to understand that the game plan should revolve around running the ball? I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that. Stop comparing this team to other NFL teams and using the words “not sustainable.” They are 7-2. Obviously it is.
Jones will never throw for 300+ yards and 3 TDs when he has 20 passing attempts per game. It’s just not going to happen. No QB would. Brady, who leads the league, has almost double the attempts that Jones has.
Meanwhile, he is doing everything necessary to win games for the giants.
I’ll never understand the people on here.
Yes and it's exactly why the Giants won't win in the playoffs.
If Jones is not resigned or tagged, some team will sign him for a much better deal than that.
Jones is finally in a system in which he is being used correctly. Do you think he is anxious to move somewhere else and possibly regress?
I think the terms above are absolutely fair. I don't think any team in FS is going to look at Jones as their long-term answer and pay him top tier QB money. He is playing well in a run-first system that has an elite RB. He is playing smart, error-free football. He is not being asked to carry the offense and I don't think any team looking for that will offer him anything more than a short term deal to bridge them to their next QB.
They are scouting everyone. That’s their effing job. And they could realistically lose Jones now even if they want him back-so they damn well better. You’re saying the sky is blue. Congrats.
Perfect cast to succeed?? What has he done this year?
For the last 2 years all I heard was how Herbert could step into Jones situation and elevate everyone around him. He looked like dogshit last night with his 2 starting WRs out.
Jones just needs NFL players to make plays...like most other QBs in the NFL.
Some of the takes around here are just odd.
What Jones is showing conclusively is he DOES NOT need everything perfect to win games.
Quote:
Those who think otherwise don't know what they're watching.
They are scouting everyone. That’s their effing job. And they could realistically lose Jones now even if they want him back-so they damn well better. You’re saying the sky is blue. Congrats.
I'm saying believing Jones is the QB to lead NYG to SB wins will be proven off-target. I'm not remotely afraid to lose or replace Jones.
If the Giants aren't scouting college QB this year, they should be fired. If Jones were a slamdunk they would have started negotiating at the bye.
Quote:
In comment 15906498 JonC said:
Quote:
Those who think otherwise don't know what they're watching.
They are scouting everyone. That’s their effing job. And they could realistically lose Jones now even if they want him back-so they damn well better. You’re saying the sky is blue. Congrats.
I'm saying believing Jones is the QB to lead NYG to SB wins will be proven off-target. I'm not remotely afraid to lose or replace Jones.
Thats a high mark for a QB. Lot of great QBs will never win a SB or even get there.
I think you are completely wrong on his reads. He was calling plays at the LoS yesterday. You could hear him making the calls just before the snap. Put it to bed. I did not see any reads that he made yesterday that were wrong. And this one read and done is a crock of crap. I have seen a few videos where the analyst shows Jones looking off safeties or going threw his progressions.
And if you do not think running wins in the playoffs - look at the 1991 super bowl. It depends on how the team is built.
If Jones is not resigned or tagged, some team will sign him for a much better deal than that.
Because you'd basically be guaranteeing him two tags up front. It's a tiny bit below the tag value (and the tag value +20% for year two on the tag), but it guarantees both years. If DJ plateaus in 2023 even with a better supporting cast, he could find himself in no-man's land for 2024.
It really depends how much Team Jones is willing to bet on himself and how aware he is about his dependence on the roster that surrounds him. He could, instead, be offered the franchise tag and create a scenario where Barkley leaves in FA. Would DJ look as good in 2023 without Barkley? Now let's add just one extra variable to that - let's say Thomas' ankle acts up in 2023 to go along with Barkley being gone. Do you think Team Jones would feel really confident about DJ's ability to earn a substantial contract on the tag with those two key pieces out of the mix?
I'm not saying that DJ should or would accept the contract that is proposed here, but I can think of a few reasonable scenarios where it could be viewed as a win/win. At a minimum, it puts DJ's price tag in line with the market rates - that perception is very valuable for DJ's earning potential going forward. Conversely, if he bets on himself and ends up in the journeyman/bridge tier for 2024, that's a much harder perception to wash off.
Personally, I don't see any compromise contracts for DJ. I think there are only three realistic scenarios as of right now:
1) Giants sign DJ long-term (4+ years). AAV will be at/above $30MM. This is the scenario if JS/BD are comfortable with what they've seen from DJ and confident in him going forward.
2) Giants tag DJ for 2023 and then re-evaluate for 2024 and beyond. This is the scenario is JS/BD are encouraged by some of what DJ has done this year, but still have too much uncertainty (whether that's due to scheme, to lack of weapons, or to DJ himself, or any combination of those).
3) Giants let DJ test free agency unencumbered, and potentially let him walk. This is the scenario where JS/BD feel like they have gameplanned around DJ's skill set all year and would prefer to find a QB who is more naturally aligned with what they want to do offensively.
The third scenario is the only one where I could even fathom DJ accepting a compromise contract (either fewer years, lower AAV, or both), and would only happen if the rest of the league also viewed DJ unfavorably (in terms of contract value).
Rush is not eligible, he's no longer on the QBR list
Quote:
What we are witnessing is a coaching staff that is running an offense completely tailored to Jones' strengths and weaknesses. It's such a simple offense and once we play a good defense, Jones won't be able to move the ball. He still has poor pocket presence and a poor ability to read a defense and know where to go with the ball when his first read isn't there.
I think you are completely wrong on his reads. He was calling plays at the LoS yesterday. You could hear him making the calls just before the snap. Put it to bed. I did not see any reads that he made yesterday that were wrong. And this one read and done is a crock of crap. I have seen a few videos where the analyst shows Jones looking off safeties or going threw his progressions.
And if you do not think running wins in the playoffs - look at the 1991 super bowl. It depends on how the team is built.
I disagree completely. Can you show me these videos? Its pretty obvious to me for the most part. It's not every single play, but the majority of plays where his first read isn't open, he panics and either runs of throws a bad pass. He's like a poor mans RG3, IMO.
People here make no sense.
Thank God they are not in charge.
What quarterback would be better than 7-2 playing on this team? Brady-n0, Rodgers-no, etc
The Giants need to upgrade the QB if they want to take the next step from playoff team to true contender.
Or it could be a coaching staff running an offense tailored to the "team" strengths (crappy WR's, lousy IOL pass blocking, great RB, mobile QB), and it has nothing to do with Jones weaknesses. It is just as reasonable to think that Jones is "playing within himself" to run the offense the team needs to run, and could also run an offense that is more pass happy and open
Jones will be the QB next year, its just a matter of whether Schoen likes Jones long term.
There is so little room for error that Jones gets shit for missing one pass that Slayton was open on...and on the next play DJ threw a dime to a WR who just got picked up off the streets.
I think the odds of Jones being back are around 20-30%.
I don't think this passing offense performance / record discrepancy is sustainable (and not all of that passing offense production performance is on Jones, of course).
Nevertheless, by QBR standards, he is currently playing top ten football.
But there is no reason to stop scouting QB prospects who are more physically gifted than Jones.
What we are seeing is a perfect collision of play-calling exploiting what Jones can do and Jones executing that plan.
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In comment 15906569 Kmed6000 said:
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What we are witnessing is a coaching staff that is running an offense completely tailored to Jones' strengths and weaknesses. It's such a simple offense and once we play a good defense, Jones won't be able to move the ball. He still has poor pocket presence and a poor ability to read a defense and know where to go with the ball when his first read isn't there.
I think you are completely wrong on his reads. He was calling plays at the LoS yesterday. You could hear him making the calls just before the snap. Put it to bed. I did not see any reads that he made yesterday that were wrong. And this one read and done is a crock of crap. I have seen a few videos where the analyst shows Jones looking off safeties or going threw his progressions.
And if you do not think running wins in the playoffs - look at the 1991 super bowl. It depends on how the team is built.
I disagree completely. Can you show me these videos? Its pretty obvious to me for the most part. It's not every single play, but the majority of plays where his first read isn't open, he panics and either runs of throws a bad pass. He's like a poor mans RG3, IMO.
Look it up yourself - Baldy and Simms(IIRC) and I believe Skinner. I do not dwell on things too long.
Are you an NFL scout? Did you play college football as QB? For a guy with 66% completion and only 2 INTs, pretty hard to say he panics and makes bad throws on a majority of plays.
I have heard this "he can't make reads" from BBI, but I have not seen outside evidence. You may be right and analysts just keep it to themselves. IDK
I did not play, so I cannot confidently say he can or cannot read - but I can see him stand there for quite a while before he leaves the pocket. So the panic part is BS. He absolutely has his limitations. I think they will move on as much because of the cost of retaining him as a middle of the pack QB. They can likely retain 3 or 4 guys for what it would cost to keep him.
I have no issues calling out posters who said Barkley sucks and Jones sucks.
Onto Detroit.
It’s like he’s mad there’s not a lot of criticism of Jones yesterday.
That's the OP's forte. Notice when Jones slipped out of the top ten in QBR, and dropped to 13th, nobody posted a call-out thread going the other way.
Speaks volumes...
This is an important point that a lot of people are ignoring. If they were 100% sold on him there would have been negotiations like there were with Love and Barkley. Jones may be back next year, but the odds aren’t as high as people want to think they are - and the odds of a long term deal are probably lower.