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Daniel Jones now 8th in NFL in QBR

ryanmkeane : 11/14/2022 8:46 am
Here are some QBs ranked below Jones at this point in the season: Burrow, Herbert, Brady, Lawrence, Cousins, Stafford, Murray, Rodgers, Wilson.

He has the least amount of INTs among eligible QBs.

Anyone want to scout some college QBs today?
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 <<Prev | Show All |  Next>>
Just to prove my point about QBR...  
bw in dc : 11/14/2022 10:52 am : link
applying a lot of weight to the running ability of a QB, Justin Fields is now 11th in the NFL in QBR. He's having a brilliant year running.

If the Bears get some better parts and continues to improve his passing, Fields is on a collision course for a top 6-8 QB in the NFL.
RE: RE: It’s the same argument every time  
Dukie Dimes : 11/14/2022 10:54 am : link
In comment 15906576 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:
In comment 15906528 Dukie Dimes said:


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WRs - well below average
Rushing (RBs/QB) - way above average
OL - MUCH, MUCH better at run blocking than pass blocking
And they play/will play in cold weather

Why is it so hard to understand that the game plan should revolve around running the ball? I don’t understand why people can’t comprehend that. Stop comparing this team to other NFL teams and using the words “not sustainable.” They are 7-2. Obviously it is.

Jones will never throw for 300+ yards and 3 TDs when he has 20 passing attempts per game. It’s just not going to happen. No QB would. Brady, who leads the league, has almost double the attempts that Jones has.

Meanwhile, he is doing everything necessary to win games for the giants.

I’ll never understand the people on here.



Yes and it's exactly why the Giants won't win in the playoffs.


Bullshit. They have done exactly that on their way to four super bowls. Are they talented enough to do so this year? Probably not. But this is a model you can win with. Just look NFL playoff history.
Jones is one tough ass mother fucker  
BigBlue7 : 11/14/2022 10:55 am : link
and is good at executing a very narrow gameplan that plays to his strengths.

We have been great at keeping games close this year (defense and run game are fantastic), but I am keen to see what happens when we get down by two scores early against a good team.

I don't know if Jones has that in him, especially given his lack of weapons at WR
RE: Jones is one tough ass mother fucker  
PatersonPlank : 11/14/2022 10:58 am : link
In comment 15906762 BigBlue7 said:
Quote:
and is good at executing a very narrow gameplan that plays to his strengths.

We have been great at keeping games close this year (defense and run game are fantastic), but I am keen to see what happens when we get down by two scores early against a good team.

I don't know if Jones has that in him, especially given his lack of weapons at WR


Weren't we down by 2 scores to Tenn, Baltimore, and Green Bay?
I dont think Daboll and Schoen have made up their minds yet  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/14/2022 11:04 am : link
obviously they didn't talk extension (Jones said this himself) like they did Barkley. Ac ouple of somewhat telling things is on 3rd and short, they didn't give Jones a chance to get the 1st, they went to a run play. I know they were running well but still game on the line, who do you want with the ball.

I also think how he plays vs the meat of the NFC East will play a role into how we ALL feel. If he splits with Philly and DAL and wins a playoff game? If he gets crushed by PHI and DAL throwing for 120yds? He's in a real life American Idol fighting for that next contract. Lets see how he does, so far he's showing up.
He’s an average NFL QB......nothing more......  
Simms11 : 11/14/2022 11:12 am : link
He’s good enough to win with, but perhaps not good enough to get us through the playoffs and win a Super Bowl. I still see that he’s slow in his progressions and getting the ball out. The Oline can’t pass protect that long. Now, is that a problem of WRs not getting open or is it that he doesn’t trust them to catch a contested ball and not want to put the ball in harms way? Maybe he’s being coached that way to limit the turnovers?! We don’t truly know, but I will say that I’ve seen him make some great throws too. Lastly, I don’t think the Giants are going to be in a position to draft a top 3 QB next year and will have to consider a developmental guy if they want to bring in another QB. Jones looks like he will probably be the guy again next year and as such, we either bite the bullet and Franchise him or is the Transition Tag on him. Not sure the team wants to commit to him long term, at least from what we’ve seen and heard or not, from the GM.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Do you really think Jones is the answer?  
Kmed6000 : 11/14/2022 11:13 am : link
In comment 15906710 section125 said:
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In comment 15906619 Kmed6000 said:


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In comment 15906601 section125 said:


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In comment 15906569 Kmed6000 said:


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What we are witnessing is a coaching staff that is running an offense completely tailored to Jones' strengths and weaknesses. It's such a simple offense and once we play a good defense, Jones won't be able to move the ball. He still has poor pocket presence and a poor ability to read a defense and know where to go with the ball when his first read isn't there.





I think you are completely wrong on his reads. He was calling plays at the LoS yesterday. You could hear him making the calls just before the snap. Put it to bed. I did not see any reads that he made yesterday that were wrong. And this one read and done is a crock of crap. I have seen a few videos where the analyst shows Jones looking off safeties or going threw his progressions.

And if you do not think running wins in the playoffs - look at the 1991 super bowl. It depends on how the team is built.



I disagree completely. Can you show me these videos? Its pretty obvious to me for the most part. It's not every single play, but the majority of plays where his first read isn't open, he panics and either runs of throws a bad pass. He's like a poor mans RG3, IMO.



Look it up yourself - Baldy and Simms(IIRC) and I believe Skinner. I do not dwell on things too long.

Are you an NFL scout? Did you play college football as QB? For a guy with 66% completion and only 2 INTs, pretty hard to say he panics and makes bad throws on a majority of plays.
I have heard this "he can't make reads" from BBI, but I have not seen outside evidence. You may be right and analysts just keep it to themselves. IDK

I did not play, so I cannot confidently say he can or cannot read - but I can see him stand there for quite a while before he leaves the pocket. So the panic part is BS. He absolutely has his limitations. I think they will move on as much because of the cost of retaining him as a middle of the pack QB. They can likely retain 3 or 4 guys for what it would cost to keep him.


Got it, so you made it up lol
RE: RE: Jones is one tough ass mother fucker  
Dukie Dimes : 11/14/2022 11:15 am : link
In comment 15906770 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15906762 BigBlue7 said:


Quote:


and is good at executing a very narrow gameplan that plays to his strengths.

We have been great at keeping games close this year (defense and run game are fantastic), but I am keen to see what happens when we get down by two scores early against a good team.

I don't know if Jones has that in him, especially given his lack of weapons at WR



Weren't we down by 2 scores to Tenn, Baltimore, and Green Bay?


LMAO. Screw the facts. Let’s just stick to our DJ narratives.
RE: He’s succeeding now  
Thegratefulhead : 11/14/2022 11:21 am : link
In comment 15906591 mittenedman said:
Quote:
with one of the worst supporting casts in the NFL. As O’Hara put it: nobody is doing more with less than DJ.

Some of the takes around here are just odd.

What Jones is showing conclusively is he DOES NOT need everything perfect to win games.
Great post. I know that Ibam enjoying watching games and our QBakes plays when we need him to.
RE: RE: RE: It’s the same argument every time  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2022 11:22 am : link
In comment 15906760 Dukie Dimes said:
Quote:
In


Bullshit. They have done exactly that on their way to four super bowls. Are they talented enough to do so this year? Probably not. But this is a model you can win with. Just look NFL playoff history.


The Giants last two super bowls were built on the passing game. The last one they were in fact the worst rushing team in the league. In 2011 he averaged 304 yards per game in the post season.
RE: RE: If you lined up all the QBs currently starting  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/14/2022 11:23 am : link
In comment 15906518 EJNNJ said:
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In comment 15906492 mfjmfj said:


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in the NFL and had to have one of them to lead you the rest of this season, my guess is that DJ is somewhere between 10-15 on the list. If you had to choose someone to lead you for the next five years, my guess is he is still 10-15, with just a different group in front of him.

If healthy he has fallen in that range his entire career, maybe 15-20, unlikley to break the top 10. The idea that we don't know what we have in DJ really did not make sense last year, and is silly this year. He is a mid-range NFL starter. Good enough to win, not good enough to be why you win. Good enough to keep if the contract is right, but the price of the contract is going up every week. 6 weeks ago I would have happily signed him to 3/$60 and thought he might take it. You would be lucky to get him at 3/$90 at this point.

Hope I am wrong and he is better than that, or that we can get him back cheaper, if we want him. But that is the lay of the land as I see it.



I agree with you though I think 3year $75-80mil with incentives on top gets it done and is fair to both sides. He's going to want more than 2years to sign anything but he hasn't proven enough to merit a BIG contract. Also don't think he'll have many suitors willing to pay more than that.

The AAV you're suggesting just does not exist in the NFL QB market. Established starters make >$30M per year; journeymen/bridge QBs make <$20M per year. DJ's agent would be crazy to not start the negotiations north of $30M because he can at least try to force the Giants' hand with the franchise tag by doing so.

It's not impossible that DJ accepts a contract that lands in the $20-$30M AAV gap, but it's extremely unlikely, IMO. And it's even more unlikely that he'd be willing to accept a multi-year deal that lands him in that nonexistent AAV tier. If he's going to accept a prove-it price point, he's likely only going to take it for a year so that he can get right back into FA to try for a larger contract.

Unless he has absolutely no confidence in himself or thinks there's a genuine risk that he could end up as a backup in the near future, DJ has no incentive to accept a 3 year deal with an AAV below $30M. As long as he considers himself a bona fide starting NFL quarterback, he could go year to year and end up north of $80M over the next three years, easily.

All of these contract suggestions that run counter to what the NFL QB market landscape looks like seem silly, IMO. DJ will either make more than $30M annually, or less than $20M annually. And if it's the latter, it'll probably be for another team, IMO.
RE: RE: RE: RE: It’s the same argument every time  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/14/2022 11:27 am : link
In comment 15906816 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15906760 Dukie Dimes said:


Quote:


In


Bullshit. They have done exactly that on their way to four super bowls. Are they talented enough to do so this year? Probably not. But this is a model you can win with. Just look NFL playoff history.



The Giants last two super bowls were built on the passing game. The last one they were in fact the worst rushing team in the league. In 2011 he averaged 304 yards per game in the post season.


Go look at the playoffs in 2011. Atlanta and then the SB.
Not sure why you continually post incorrect information.

I am far from a DJ hater and I've wanted to see him in a legit offense  
Kmed6000 : 11/14/2022 11:27 am : link
that plays to his strengths and this is it. I believe this is the best you will get from DJ. Lets look at the facts:

9 games played this season:

2 games throwing over 200 yards(217 and 202).
He is 23rd in passing yards and 31st in passing yards per game.
He has 8 TD passes which is less than 1 per game.
He is 24th in passing TD's.


The Giants have created a VERY safe offense which allows them to control the game on the ground, not turn the ball over in the air and play stout defense. The formula is working, but I don't know many teams that win like this in the playoffs.
RE: I am far from a DJ hater and I've wanted to see him in a legit offense  
GNewGiants : 11/14/2022 11:29 am : link
In comment 15906831 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:

The Giants have created a VERY safe offense which allows them to control the game on the ground, not turn the ball over in the air and play stout defense. The formula is working, but I don't know many teams that win like this in the playoffs.


Probably not many, but it is our only chance this year. We need much better WRs in order to say what will work best for us.
RE: RE: He’s succeeding now  
Kmed6000 : 11/14/2022 11:31 am : link
In comment 15906815 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15906591 mittenedman said:


Quote:


with one of the worst supporting casts in the NFL. As O’Hara put it: nobody is doing more with less than DJ.

Some of the takes around here are just odd.

What Jones is showing conclusively is he DOES NOT need everything perfect to win games.

Great post. I know that Ibam enjoying watching games and our QBakes plays when we need him to.


We have arguably the best run game in the NFL. How does he have the worst supporting cast? We have arguably the best LT and a 1st rounder at RT whos played well enough. Our offensive line has been solid. We have an amazing coaching staff that understands what our strengths and weaknesses are and play to that. This is such an exaggerated statement.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: It’s the same argument every time  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2022 11:31 am : link
In comment 15906830 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:


Go look at the playoffs in 2011. Atlanta and then the SB.
Not sure why you continually post incorrect information.


What is incorrect about it? They were the 5th best passing team in the league that year, 32nd in run.

Do the two games in between those two not count toward winning a Super Bowl? The Coughlin teams weren’t run first teams.
Yeah I gotta go with ajr here  
GNewGiants : 11/14/2022 11:32 am : link
our passing game was the main reason why we won in 2007 and 2011 - especially in 2011. We were a terrible run team in 2011. 2007 was a little better but Eli's arm carried us in the playoffs.
To be fair,  
Kmed6000 : 11/14/2022 11:33 am : link
in 2011 we were a terrible run team, but turned it on in the playoffs.
RE: RE: .  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/14/2022 11:34 am : link
In comment 15906720 ryanmkeane said:
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In comment 15906701 ChrisRick said:


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In my view, the OP would be of more value without the call-outs. It is just asking to argue with people.


I have no issues calling out posters who said Barkley sucks and Jones sucks.

As long as you're cool with it being pointed out every time you're wrong. Because that tends to happen with far more frequency, and yet I don't see anyone jumping in at the top of every thread with callouts about your wrong takes like you do. And let's be honest, you aren't even right in the way that you think you are.

For example, most of the issues with SB have been about durability and positional value. Nothing about those concerns have been disproven - the #2 overall draft slot was still too high for a RB for a team on the precipice of a rebuild, and Barkley HAS missed significant time over the years due to injury. Those concerns have been validated. You didn't win that argument.

And for DJ, some of the concerns have been about giving him enough support to succeed once his rookie contract is up, because they were unable to do so when he was cheap and it will only get more difficult as DJ gets more expensive. You haven't been proven right on that one, either. It is still an open question!

You don't have enough credibility to be constantly chirping with these misguided "I told you so" callouts. You've been a pollyanna for years. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but no one is going to trust it as their alarm.
Jones is playing well  
Heisenberg : 11/14/2022 11:35 am : link
Basically, the Giants are using him like the Titans have used Tannehill. Protect the ball, be efficient, hand off to a great RB.

At this point, I trust the guys running this team to decide if he's got another level they can get to with better players around him. If they bring him back, it's because they believe in them and who would I be to argue?

I wouldn't be afraid to move on from him either. You don't want your team's ceiling to be held back by the QB and if they decide he would be doing that, it's best to move on.

Either way, I'm enjoying how he's playing this year. He's been smart, tough and dependable and is one reason this team is winning games.
RE: Jones is playing well  
Kmed6000 : 11/14/2022 11:38 am : link
In comment 15906851 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Basically, the Giants are using him like the Titans have used Tannehill. Protect the ball, be efficient, hand off to a great RB.

At this point, I trust the guys running this team to decide if he's got another level they can get to with better players around him. If they bring him back, it's because they believe in them and who would I be to argue?

I wouldn't be afraid to move on from him either. You don't want your team's ceiling to be held back by the QB and if they decide he would be doing that, it's best to move on.

Either way, I'm enjoying how he's playing this year. He's been smart, tough and dependable and is one reason this team is winning games.


I can certainly get behind this message. Well said, IMO.
RE: Jones is playing well  
PatersonPlank : 11/14/2022 11:38 am : link
In comment 15906851 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Basically, the Giants are using him like the Titans have used Tannehill. Protect the ball, be efficient, hand off to a great RB.

At this point, I trust the guys running this team to decide if he's got another level they can get to with better players around him. If they bring him back, it's because they believe in them and who would I be to argue?

I wouldn't be afraid to move on from him either. You don't want your team's ceiling to be held back by the QB and if they decide he would be doing that, it's best to move on.

Either way, I'm enjoying how he's playing this year. He's been smart, tough and dependable and is one reason this team is winning games.


+1. I agree. This is the point I keep trying to make. The only ones who really know what Jones can fully do are Daboll/Kafka/Schoen. We will see what they think is the right thing with him moving forward. Right now they are winning with a game plan around our team strengths/weaknesses, not necessarily Jones.
RE: Jones is playing well  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/14/2022 11:39 am : link
In comment 15906851 Heisenberg said:
Quote:
Basically, the Giants are using him like the Titans have used Tannehill. Protect the ball, be efficient, hand off to a great RB.

At this point, I trust the guys running this team to decide if he's got another level they can get to with better players around him. If they bring him back, it's because they believe in them and who would I be to argue?

I wouldn't be afraid to move on from him either. You don't want your team's ceiling to be held back by the QB and if they decide he would be doing that, it's best to move on.

Either way, I'm enjoying how he's playing this year. He's been smart, tough and dependable and is one reason this team is winning games.

I think this is a great post, and I agree with putting faith in whichever way JS & BD decide to go at QB.
People are going to act  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2022 11:40 am : link
Vindicated whether Jones is resigned or not. But the answer on who is correct if it was the right move is still a couple of years down the line. I don’t get the premature “I was right chirping” about a contract that hasn’t even begun negotiations.

There’s a lot to discuss about the contract and what it’ll be worth, but nobody can claim being right yet.
It will be interesting how it works out  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/14/2022 11:40 am : link
I think JS should be scouting QB's. He will weigh that against what he has in Jones. I am in favor of a rookie if they believe in him. The team is closer than some think and the cost at the position is a big deal imv.

We will see how it plays out. The QBGC will be wrong as usual as will Gatorade who is in that group but at least we get some nice stats and spreadsheets of data.

Tough choice for the Giants coming up.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Do you really think Jones is the answer?  
section125 : 11/14/2022 11:48 am : link
In comment 15906802 Kmed6000 said:
Quote:


I did not play, so I cannot confidently say he can or cannot read - but I can see him stand there for quite a while before he leaves the pocket. So the panic part is BS. He absolutely has his limitations. I think they will move on as much because of the cost of retaining him as a middle of the pack QB. They can likely retain 3 or 4 guys for what it would cost to keep him.



Got it, so you made it up lol


Made up what? That I saw a few videos where they show DJ making reads? I saw them. I believe that someone posted them here for viewing and I am absolutely certain that Baldy
was one of the analysts....if you don't want to believe that, that is not on me. That is on you. Why would I make it up?
But as I said, the only place I have ever heard that Jones is a one read QB is on BBI. It may be true, but I have only read it here.

I am not looking to get into it, but what about your claim on panic and bad throws. Where is that evidence? 66% completion percentage, 2 Ints says otherwise. And we all know how many drops per game there are. You said he makes one read, panics and runs...

So I guess you made it up...


2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
Producer : 11/14/2022 11:53 am : link
1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1
passing yards per game - ( New Window )
I don’t recall  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2022 11:53 am : link
If it was the play to Slayton for the TD but they even pointed out when they showed the replay that the play was changed at the line.
RE: Just to prove my point about QBR...  
JB_in_DC : 11/14/2022 11:54 am : link
In comment 15906754 bw in dc said:
Quote:
applying a lot of weight to the running ability of a QB, Justin Fields is now 11th in the NFL in QBR. He's having a brilliant year running.

If the Bears get some better parts and continues to improve his passing, Fields is on a collision course for a top 6-8 QB in the NFL.


Really interesting what's going on in Chicago. They turned Fields loose running 4 weeks back and its changed their season. But he is taking shots that for example LJax never does.

I don't think that will be sustainable, but for the sake of my fantasy season I hope it at least lasts the year.
I’m undecided  
monstercoo : 11/14/2022 11:55 am : link
He’s basically tied for last in passing yards and passing tds. I would assume if he throws more, the INT problem will be back and his QBR would drop significantly.

Before the season started, I think our nightmare scenario for the season was that the Giants would win just enough games to not be able to draft a QB and/or the OL would be so terrible we couldn’t evaluate DJ. I think this front office will guarantee their ability to truly be able to evaluate DJ by trading Toney and not signing a WR (OBJ, etc).

I think we’re going into 2023 not knowing if DJ is a franchise QB or not. I think the answer will be to tag him.
RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
PatersonPlank : 11/14/2022 11:55 am : link
In comment 15906901 Producer said:
Quote:
1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )


If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
Producer : 11/14/2022 11:57 am : link
In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15906901 Producer said:


Quote:


1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )



If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.


Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
GNewGiants : 11/14/2022 11:59 am : link
In comment 15906914 Producer said:
Quote:

Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?


Well he is running an offense that is leading us to wins, so yes with the team he has - I think he is quite happy.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
Producer : 11/14/2022 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15906917 GNewGiants said:
Quote:
In comment 15906914 Producer said:


Quote:



Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?



Well he is running an offense that is leading us to wins, so yes with the team he has - I think he is quite happy.


I can't disagree, but the luck will eventually run out. We should be preparing to beat the best teams in the league, not the league's pushovers.
RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
PatersonPlank : 11/14/2022 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15906914 Producer said:
Quote:
In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 15906901 Producer said:


Quote:


1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )



If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.



Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?


My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?

Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
Could end up being wrong  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2022 12:02 pm : link
But to beat the Eagles, Vikings, Cowboys and likely whoever they play in the postseason the current formula won’t work. They’re going to have to push the ball vertically more often. The two times they had to this year, Dallas (worst oline game of the year) and Seattle it didn’t look pretty.

Not knowing if your current QB is capable of doing that makes shelling out a long term deal extremely difficult. Schoen and Daboll likely see it the same way, else they would have had extension discussions already.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
GNewGiants : 11/14/2022 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15906922 Producer said:
Quote:

I can't disagree, but the luck will eventually run out. We should be preparing to beat the best teams in the league, not the league's pushovers.


Like Tennessee, Baltimore, and Green Bay?
outside of the outliers (Mahomes / Allen)  
UConn4523 : 11/14/2022 12:03 pm : link
you don't see a correlation to the weapons on offense and those rankings? A bunch of those teams in the back half are going to the playoffs.

You aren't proving anything, not sure if you know that.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
Producer : 11/14/2022 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15906925 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15906914 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 15906901 Producer said:


Quote:


1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )



If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.



Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?



My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?

Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?


the OL and WR excuses are starting to whither away. The line is much better and receivers, esp Slayton, are playing better, and we are still left with a remedial passing game. Jones is very good running the ball, he is efficient when he doesn't have to pass much, and he has never demonstrated the ability to lead a high flying / high production passing attack. You have to agree with those observations. And until he demonstrates he can do the latter on a consistent basis, he's not worth anything but lower tier starter dollars.
RE: outside of the outliers (Mahomes / Allen)  
ajr2456 : 11/14/2022 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15906931 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
you don't see a correlation to the weapons on offense and those rankings? A bunch of those teams in the back half are going to the playoffs.

You aren't proving anything, not sure if you know that.


To be fair though, outside of Jackson which of those other QBs in the back half would people take here?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
GNewGiants : 11/14/2022 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15906935 Producer said:
Quote:

the OL and WR excuses are starting to whither away. The line is much better and receivers, esp Slayton, are playing better, and we are still left with a remedial passing game. Jones is very good running the ball, he is efficient when he doesn't have to pass much, and he has never demonstrated the ability to lead a high flying / high production passing attack. You have to agree with those observations. And until he demonstrates he can do the latter on a consistent basis, he's not worth anything but lower tier starter dollars.


LOL, excuses? What WRs are playing better other than Slayton who is still number 3 at best? You mean like the David Sills started 8 games this year and was so bad, he was inactive this week. You mean Kenny Golladay is playing better? LOL!
8th in QBR  
Ron Johnson : 11/14/2022 12:10 pm : link


that's top 10, correct?
RE: RE: outside of the outliers (Mahomes / Allen)  
UConn4523 : 11/14/2022 12:18 pm : link
In comment 15906937 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15906931 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


you don't see a correlation to the weapons on offense and those rankings? A bunch of those teams in the back half are going to the playoffs.

You aren't proving anything, not sure if you know that.



To be fair though, outside of Jackson which of those other QBs in the back half would people take here?


Not many. But my point is that the goal of a Mahomes/Allen doesn't = everything else bad. If you don't have an elite passer and/or elite pass catchers, you are going to have to find another way to win and there's a bunch of teams that are doing that right now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
Thegratefulhead : 11/14/2022 12:18 pm : link
In comment 15906925 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15906914 Producer said:


Quote:


In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


In comment 15906901 Producer said:


Quote:


1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )



If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.



Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?



My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?

Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
I agree completely
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game  
DieHard : 11/14/2022 12:20 pm : link
In comment 15906935 Producer said:
Quote:

the OL and WR excuses are starting to whither away. The line is much better and receivers, esp Slayton, are playing better, and we are still left with a remedial passing game. Jones is very good running the ball, he is efficient when he doesn't have to pass much, and he has never demonstrated the ability to lead a high flying / high production passing attack. You have to agree with those observations. And until he demonstrates he can do the latter on a consistent basis, he's not worth anything but lower tier starter dollars.


You hurt your argument with your "no more excuses" comment. Our second leading receiver yesterday was literally signed last week, while our supposed #1 WR Golladay is dropping passes left and right (passes that would have made Jones' numbers look a lot better, by the way). Our best TE and two starting OL are still missing, and those taking their places are either journeymen or working back from injury. I also wouldn't say the line has "improved" based on a good rushing day against the worst rush D in the league. They certainly weren't opening holes in Seattle 2 weeks ago.

The fact is, the Giants are playing a specific style that they think gives them the best chance to win. You seem convinced they're doing it because they can't count on Jones. I'm not convinced Jones is the answer either, but he's playing error-free football and making positive plays with a short-handed cast, which is more than a lot of critics said he was capable of before the season started.
RE: RE: Just to prove my point about QBR...  
bw in dc : 11/14/2022 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15906906 JB_in_DC said:
Quote:
In comment 15906754 bw in dc said:


Quote:


applying a lot of weight to the running ability of a QB, Justin Fields is now 11th in the NFL in QBR. He's having a brilliant year running.

If the Bears get some better parts and continues to improve his passing, Fields is on a collision course for a top 6-8 QB in the NFL.



Really interesting what's going on in Chicago. They turned Fields loose running 4 weeks back and its changed their season. But he is taking shots that for example LJax never does.

I don't think that will be sustainable, but for the sake of my fantasy season I hope it at least lasts the year.


I agree. Getsy, the OC, has given him the green light to run, run, run. Fields is a big, fast kid who isn't afraid to lay the lumber on defensive players. But that needs to change, and he needs to play more like LJax with his decision making.

Further, that Bears OL is a disgrace, too. Despite that, Fields is making some unreal plays with both his arm and legs.

Look, this is where the NFL is. You need multi-faceted QBs who can make plays with their arms and legs. That's why big credit goes to Daboll/Kafka for creating an offense that really suits Jones right now and optimizes his running skills.



I find it hysterical  
Thegratefulhead : 11/14/2022 12:27 pm : link
That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
RE: RE: RE: Just to prove my point about QBR...  
section125 : 11/14/2022 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15906976 bw in dc said:
Quote:

Look, this is where the NFL is. You need multi-faceted QBs who can make plays with their arms and legs. That's why big credit goes to Daboll/Kafka for creating an offense that really suits Jones right now and optimizes his running skills.




Yep. I thought Fields was lost. He has looked good since the Giants game.
RE: I dont think Daboll and Schoen have made up their minds yet  
joe48 : 11/14/2022 12:30 pm : link
In comment 15906784 Jim in Forest Hills said:
Quote:
obviously they didn't talk extension (Jones said this himself) like they did Barkley. Ac ouple of somewhat telling things is on 3rd and short, they didn't give Jones a chance to get the 1st, they went to a run play. I know they were running well but still game on the line, who do you want with the ball.

I also think how he plays vs the meat of the NFC East will play a role into how we ALL feel. If he splits with Philly and DAL and wins a playoff game? If he gets crushed by PHI and DAL throwing for 120yds? He's in a real life American Idol fighting for that next contract. Lets see how he does, so far he's showing up.

Why would we negotiate with Jones at this point? What you think does not really matter .
Jones performance as a QB this year  
AcesUp : 11/14/2022 12:34 pm : link
Probably lands somewhere in between his efficiency and volume numbers.
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