1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
the OL and WR excuses are starting to whither away. The line is much better and receivers, esp Slayton, are playing better, and we are still left with a remedial passing game. Jones is very good running the ball, he is efficient when he doesn't have to pass much, and he has never demonstrated the ability to lead a high flying / high production passing attack. You have to agree with those observations. And until he demonstrates he can do the latter on a consistent basis, he's not worth anything but lower tier starter dollars.
Your dislike for DJ has not withered away but your reasoning is questionable. I do like the high/flying production passing attack. What ever that is.
Let me ask you a question. First context. Daniel Jones has thrown the fewest pass completions in the NFL of over 20 yards plus among starters who have started at least 7 games. Kenny Pickett has one fewer, but he's only started 6 games.
Bailey Zappe and Jameis Winston have a combined 7 starts, and have more than double the number of 20+ yard pass completions with 27. DJ has 12. Jameis has 3 starts and 13 completions with of more than 20+ yards.
In terms of total air yards, the only NFL starters with fewer are those that have missed games because of injury or because of benching: Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett, Ryan Tannehill, Mac Jones, Dak Prescott, Baker Mayfield.
Is this the offense you think Daboll and Kafka want to run?
His air yards are among the bottom, his yards per attempt are among the bottom, his attempts are among the bottom, passing TDs among the bottom.
Yet we are waxing poetic and I'm reading about his passer rating of all things...HIS PASSER RATING, which is about as meaningless a stat in football.
Do you know what happens to DJ's passer rating if Jalen Pitre makes the tackle on Slayton? Neither do I. But if Slayton doesn't break that tackle (on a 3-yard completion) and take it to the house and we simply remove that YAC and score from DJ's ledger, his rating is 102.33.
Now I'm not one for if my aunt had a penis she'd be my uncle arguments, but this just goes to show how insignificant this stat is. If Slayton's great play results in a 50 point bump for Jones on his passer rating, why are we heaping the kudos on Jones. Great play by Slayton! He threw the ball 17 times. Let's be real. Passer rating has some value when you are calculating it over the course of a season, or half a season...large numbers need to go in to the calculus for it to be worth anything. 17 attempts...it's a nothing-burger.
I give DJ a ton of credit for managing the game well. For not turning the ball over. He's proven the Giants can win some games as long as he continues to do those things and as long as the defense plays well and Saquon is here and healthy.
But Saquon had 36 touches yesterday. They ran the ball more than double the amount of times they asked Jones to throw it. Again, I ask...is this the offense you think Daboll and Kafka want to run. Will this type of offense be sustainable, and will it win in the playoffs?
Yes, I want to see better receivers. I want to see what Jones can do in a passing game that looks more like KC's or Buffalo's.
But I've watched that game, and I didn't come away with, "wow, Jones played so great, he really won us that game."
What won yesterday was Saquon, Dexter Lawrence, Leo Williams, Julian Love, and maybe then...DJ for managing the game well, getting some timely scrambles and not turning the ball over.
And this is the last thing I'll say...you're watching one of the most mediocre (to use an optimistic word) passing offenses in the NFL with mediocre scoring output weekly and every week all we read is how great DJ is. Without Saquon, this offense would sink to the very bottom of the league. He is keeping this team afloat offensively, and everything that works is playing off of Saquon.
Good post and many of those important points have been mentioned during the season. This absolutely can't be the offense Daboll/Kafka want for the medium and long term.
BTW, the OP is talking about QBR, which is a significantly different approach than the traditional Passer Rating formula.
Good post and many of those important points have been mentioned during the season. This absolutely can't be the offense Daboll/Kafka want for the medium and long term.
BTW, the OP is talking about QBR, which is a significantly different approach than the traditional Passer Rating formula.
Yeah I realize that my post wasn't clear on who exactly I was responding to (intentionally). I was not responding to the OP in general but generically to posters that have been pumping up that stat yesterday and today and to the ones calling out anyone that dares to do anything but heap accolades on DJ.
Without turning those two short passes into 30 and 50 yard games I’m not sure the Giants win yesterday.
That's MORE than fair. You're completely right. In terms of credit, Slayton is ahead of Jones because the Giants needed that TD when Slayton made that play.
Jones did extend some drives and controlled the game, he gets some credit, but he's down the list some.
Its not a "tell" that they havent signed Jones yet
this was always going to be a yearlong evaluation because of the new system, work-in-progress OL and no capable WRs
And as I have said since January - who they can find to replace him must be factored into the equation of whether or not to sign him. The fact that guys like Levis, Van Dyke, and other college QBs have been lousy complicates the question, as does the winning the Giants are doing
Fields - this is what Greg Cosell said yesterday about him:
@GregCosell breaks down what he is seeing from Fields and the Bears on tape: “Their pass game is essentially remedial and elementary…”
Jones is having a great year. He isn't. But he is winning and that is all Daboll is asking him to do.
I believe that is why he will not be re-signed. But to just whisk away the incompetence at the WR position is disingenuous too.
If this is in response to me I haven't done this. I've always said that the lack of talent at WR matters. It's certainly relevant to the overall numbers, the offensive design, all of it. It also doesn't mean with a big leap forward in terms of receiver talent, that DJ will also look as dynamic a passer as even Kirk Cousins.
Let's look back two years ago and consider Jalen Hurts and his Phillies. The team was not sold on him. It was a running team. He was considered a good solid running QB who wasn't accurate. The team was considering trading to find a better QB. Now that they have a great offensive line and two top WRs, Hurts is having a great year and Philly is undefeated.
Let's consider the case for Tua. A weak-armed QB who couldn't throw the deep ball. Once again, the team was looking to replace him. Now he's looking fine that he has 2 very dangerous WRs in Waddle and Hill.
Let's now consider the case for QBs who are unquestionably great, who now have porous offensive lines and/or no WRs of any consequence like Rodgers who has been getting sacked and has no decent WRs. Like Brady who lost his security to remain a pocket passer when his Oline deteriorated. Like Stafford whose Oline also deteriorated and he has no time to find his receivers as easily and as often as he would like.
That leaves the GM with two options. Option #1 is you keep the QB and do all you can to build an adequate offensive line and elite receivers through the draft or free agency.
Option #2 is you draft a new QB. However, this has its drawbacks because you will probably have to mortgage future draft picks, which eliminates the team's chances for improving the offensive line and obtaining elite WRs. The new QB will therefore not be in the best environment to succeed until the team can provide him with adequate protections and elite WRs. Chances are slim that will happen immediately. There is also the risk that the new QB may not even be as good as the one he is supposed to replace.
The GM and coach must make good decisions as to what is best for the team. In my opinion, if you already have a QB who has led his team to a 7-2 record, imagine how even more successful he could be if you protect him better and add better talent at WR and/or other positions of weakness. Drafting a new QB delays improving the other positions. That then requires adding talent through FA, which we all know is expensive and is no guarantee. Not all good players thrive in a different environment and system.
he will certainly never be the passer that Cousins is
but he has won games in a manner Cousins can't. Its reasonable to assume Jones would be a better QB with a Justin Jefferson on the field. How much better is the golden question.
Jones is having a great year. He isn't. But he is winning and that is all Daboll is asking him to do.
I believe that is why he will not be re-signed. But to just whisk away the incompetence at the WR position is disingenuous too.
If this is in response to me I haven't done this. I've always said that the lack of talent at WR matters. It's certainly relevant to the overall numbers, the offensive design, all of it. It also doesn't mean with a big leap forward in terms of receiver talent, that DJ will also look as dynamic a passer as even Kirk Cousins.
Two or three games back Sy made a comment saying something to the effect of what Jones would look like with better than near league bottom WR talent. I think it was the Ravens game.
I am with you in that I think he is gone after this year. Not the type QB Daboll wants. And there is no doubt Daboll and Kafka are managing the offense in a certain conservative way and it is a combination or reasons plus when you have a Saquon Barkley you lean in him.
But I do not think you can not expect Jones to have better numbers if he had mid-level WR corp - or even just one Stefan Diggs or a CeeDee Lamb.
That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
I find it hysterical that fans think coaches and GMs simplify their QB evaluation to the point where team wins are even remotely close to the most important factor for any individual player.
It's fine if fans want to take such a simplistic approach to say that they don't want to fix what appears to be unbroken, but the coaches and front office executives are privy to what factors they're handcuffing themselves with in order to keep that scenario unbroken in the first place.
The short version is that I feel very confident in saying that the team's W/L record may help DJ's cause in his contract negotiations but will be far from the top factor the team considers when they are faced with a long view of their future at the QB position, especially when they are winning in a way that asks relatively little of the QB, compared to the offensive schemes with which our offensive coaches share their pedigree (Buffalo and Kansas City, most notably).
That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
I find it hysterical that fans think coaches and GMs simplify their QB evaluation to the point where team wins are even remotely close to the most important factor for any individual player.
It's fine if fans want to take such a simplistic approach to say that they don't want to fix what appears to be unbroken, but the coaches and front office executives are privy to what factors they're handcuffing themselves with in order to keep that scenario unbroken in the first place.
The short version is that I feel very confident in saying that the team's W/L record may help DJ's cause in his contract negotiations but will be far from the top factor the team considers when they are faced with a long view of their future at the QB position, especially when they are winning in a way that asks relatively little of the QB, compared to the offensive schemes with which our offensive coaches share their pedigree (Buffalo and Kansas City, most notably).
I feel confident that by far, the most meaningful stat to all of ownership, management and players is wins. So we disagree on a profound level on this topic. Not a lot reason for us to unpack it.
Jones is having a great year. He isn't. But he is winning and that is all Daboll is asking him to do.
I believe that is why he will not be re-signed. But to just whisk away the incompetence at the WR position is disingenuous too.
If this is in response to me I haven't done this. I've always said that the lack of talent at WR matters. It's certainly relevant to the overall numbers, the offensive design, all of it. It also doesn't mean with a big leap forward in terms of receiver talent, that DJ will also look as dynamic a passer as even Kirk Cousins.
Yes but this is my point. You don't know that he won't look better than Cousins. We don't know, and for posters to continually make believe they do know is nonsense. Daboll/Kafka probably have an idea, but thats about it.
After the season Daboll and Schoen will decide, and then we will know what their opinion is, because I do agree this is not the offense moving forward. Whatever they think I am fine with. I just get a little tired of the constant bashing by people who really have no idea what the truth is
That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
That's not at all what we are saying, and I think you know it.
That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
I find it hysterical that fans think coaches and GMs simplify their QB evaluation to the point where team wins are even remotely close to the most important factor for any individual player.
It's fine if fans want to take such a simplistic approach to say that they don't want to fix what appears to be unbroken, but the coaches and front office executives are privy to what factors they're handcuffing themselves with in order to keep that scenario unbroken in the first place.
The short version is that I feel very confident in saying that the team's W/L record may help DJ's cause in his contract negotiations but will be far from the top factor the team considers when they are faced with a long view of their future at the QB position, especially when they are winning in a way that asks relatively little of the QB, compared to the offensive schemes with which our offensive coaches share their pedigree (Buffalo and Kansas City, most notably).
I feel confident that by far, the most meaningful stat to all of ownership, management and players is wins. So we disagree on a profound level on this topic. Not a lot reason for us to unpack it.
Fair enough. Let me know how you think they should valuate DJ for his next contract with the approach you have in mind.
He already beat Rodgers H2H, so if the Giants also finish the season with more wins than Green Bay, is it safe to say you'd endorse $50M+ AAV for DJ since he'd have better numbers in your only valuable metric?
Let's look back two years ago and consider Jalen Hurts and his Phillies. The team was not sold on him. It was a running team. He was considered a good solid running QB who wasn't accurate. The team was considering trading to find a better QB. Now that they have a great offensive line and two top WRs, Hurts is having a great year and Philly is undefeated.
Let's consider the case for Tua. A weak-armed QB who couldn't throw the deep ball. Once again, the team was looking to replace him. Now he's looking fine that he has 2 very dangerous WRs in Waddle and Hill.
Let's now consider the case for QBs who are unquestionably great, who now have porous offensive lines and/or no WRs of any consequence like Rodgers who has been getting sacked and has no decent WRs. Like Brady who lost his security to remain a pocket passer when his Oline deteriorated. Like Stafford whose Oline also deteriorated and he has no time to find his receivers as easily and as often as he would like.
That leaves the GM with two options. Option #1 is you keep the QB and do all you can to build an adequate offensive line and elite receivers through the draft or free agency.
Option #2 is you draft a new QB. However, this has its drawbacks because you will probably have to mortgage future draft picks, which eliminates the team's chances for improving the offensive line and obtaining elite WRs. The new QB will therefore not be in the best environment to succeed until the team can provide him with adequate protections and elite WRs. Chances are slim that will happen immediately. There is also the risk that the new QB may not even be as good as the one he is supposed to replace.
The GM and coach must make good decisions as to what is best for the team. In my opinion, if you already have a QB who has led his team to a 7-2 record, imagine how even more successful he could be if you protect him better and add better talent at WR and/or other positions of weakness. Drafting a new QB delays improving the other positions. That then requires adding talent through FA, which we all know is expensive and is no guarantee. Not all good players thrive in a different environment and system.
Your looking at option 2 in a very narrow way.
Really it's more than 2 options.
IF you have the opportunity to move up and get a truly elite franchise QB (you never know), then you do it. You absolutely should trade nearly whatever it takes to get him. The guy I most project at this early date to be a superstar QB in the NFL is Hendon Hooker.
There's a long process to go, however, and people seem to be all over the map on where Hooker will go in the draft. Stroud and Young seem to be ahead of him. I would love for that scenario to be the case on draft day.
Beane manipulated the draft in 2018 in a masterclass fashion, with Schoen having a front-row seat (and perhaps plenty of involvement in getting the deals done).
Before the draft, he moved up from the 21st spot to 12 by trading Cordy Glenn, the 21st pick, and a 5th rounder to the Bengals.
They traded Tyrod Taylor to the Browns for a third round pick.
Then they traded with the Buccaneers to move up to the 7th pick from 12 (and a 7th rounder) by sending the Bucs #12 and two 2nd round picks, where they took Josh Allen.
So many things are possible in the draft, it doesn't need to be distilled down to we have to trade away the next two years' worth of premium picks plus to move up from the 20's to #1 overall.
And we have the benefit of a GM who has a creative background when it comes to approaching the draft.
Further, Tyrod Taylor or another QB can be a bridge and still win NFL games while a rookie redshirts.
Or DJ could be a bridge. Or you can roll with DJ for awhile and see if you can build a championship-caliber team around him and do it that way. But at any rate, even if it's not with a first round pick, you have to get another young QB in here with a live arm.
The Giants aren’t going to shell out a multi year deal
The owner has stated as much that Jones has been given quite the shitty opportunity to succeed. They have tried to change that, but their attempts to do so have not succeeded to the extent the team had hoped for. Jones was still getting sacked a lot or hurried a lot. No one even needs to talk about the lack of support for giving Jones adequate receivers to throw to. Right now he has practice squad level players at WR and TE.
It is still up in the air as to what he would be like after getting them. He still hasn't been fairly evaluated. Some may believe he's never going to be THE guy. Some believe he could be THE guy. Nobody knows for sure until you give him what every QB needs.
Certainly, the Giants will do their due diligence in evaluating the QBs in the draft or free agency to see if there is someone who can improve the team. They do this daily. But as I said before, they have to weigh all the factors and costs involved in order to do the right thing that is best for the team.
Those who think otherwise don't know what they're watching.
They are scouting everyone. That’s their effing job. And they could realistically lose Jones now even if they want him back-so they damn well better. You’re saying the sky is blue. Congrats.
This was a response to the OP stating that the sky was purple. If you've been on this site for any amount of time you would understand why that is necessary.
That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
That's not at all what we are saying, and I think you know it.
Fair, I do, my post isn't entirely fair, but the smart people that post here are not being fair either. Throwing a little back at you all. You don't get to 7 and without solid QB play. He has 2 ints. His pocket presence is objectively improved.
I believe will be 9 and in 2 weeks. I think we will go on to SWEEP Philly.
Yes, sweep.
Speculation, sure.
Have you considered that posiblity at all?
Why?
Bias.
This team is built to win in the weather.
They have PROVEN they have the discipline to win ugly.
Leave room in your opinion to be wrong.
This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
RE: This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
different offenses, different personnel, different game plans.
That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
That's not at all what we are saying, and I think you know it.
Fair, I do, my post isn't entirely fair, but the smart people that post here are not being fair either. Throwing a little back at you all. You don't get to 7 and without solid QB play. He has 2 ints. His pocket presence is objectively improved.
I believe will be 9 and in 2 weeks. I think we will go on to SWEEP Philly.
Yes, sweep.
Speculation, sure.
Have you considered that posiblity at all?
Why?
Bias.
This team is built to win in the weather.
They have PROVEN they have the discipline to win ugly.
Leave room in your opinion to be wrong.
I always leave room for my opinion to be wrong. I don't care if I'm wrong. I want the Giants to be contenders for multiple SB titles. I am enjoying the season and the wins, but I think we're a paper tiger that will get summarily squashed in the playoffs.
RE: RE: This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
different offenses, different personnel, different game plans.
Come on, you are better than this, I think.
And I would add, I am completely surprised by Hurts' development as a passer. I never thought it would happen.
RE: RE: RE: This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
To me it does not add anything positive. It just continues to the 'I told you so' cycle.
For many this site provides a source for self-worth. They call out others when anything supports that they are right, or hide or exaggerate when things prove they may be wrong. It's sad.
The one thing these folks won't ever do is change their opinion based on additional facts. That's why the "one view" posters on this site are the ones to mainly ignore. You are talking to people working on faith not facts.
Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
Well he is running an offense that is leading us to wins, so yes with the team he has - I think he is quite happy.
He'll be happier with a new QB next year. I have no idea what exactly goes into QBR but it must just be short completions and turnovers. Sure can't be passing yards, passing TDs, air yards, YPA, team passing, team scoring....
RE: RE: This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
QBs to play head-to-head. QBs play against defenses. Which team wins doesn't tell you anything about which QB is better. It tells you which team played better.
RE: RE: RE: RE: This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
And I would add, I am completely surprised by Hurts' development as a passer. I never thought it would happen.
Theres no doubt Hurts has improved, but he has great weapons and a great OL. Those things matter greatly.
Of course they do. Nobody claims they don't matter. But Hurts' tape is impressive. He's making difficult throws beyond the hashes into tight windows with regularity. I don't know what to say about his progression. It's probably not as good as Allen's year 3 progression, but it is stunning nonetheless. Maybe he falls off, rest of season. But he doesn't look like a fluke. And if he continues to win and put up impressive numbers, he'll get some kind of juicy extension.
That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
That's not at all what we are saying, and I think you know it.
Fair, I do, my post isn't entirely fair, but the smart people that post here are not being fair either. Throwing a little back at you all. You don't get to 7 and without solid QB play. He has 2 ints. His pocket presence is objectively improved.
I believe will be 9 and in 2 weeks. I think we will go on to SWEEP Philly.
Yes, sweep.
Speculation, sure.
Have you considered that posiblity at all?
Why?
Bias.
This team is built to win in the weather.
They have PROVEN they have the discipline to win ugly.
Leave room in your opinion to be wrong.
I always leave room for my opinion to be wrong. I don't care if I'm wrong. I want the Giants to be contenders for multiple SB titles. I am enjoying the season and the wins, but I think we're a paper tiger that will get summarily squashed in the playoffs.
After a d3caf3 of futity a playoff game will be quite welcome.
Am not sold on the belief that Jones cannot win in the post season.
RE: RE: RE: This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
QBs to play head-to-head. QBs play against defenses. Which team wins doesn't tell you anything about which QB is better. It tells you which team played better.
No. Let's say the teams play evenly until the last 2 minutes. One guy has a big turnover, the other makes the big throws that win.
Every article written would say so so out-dueled so and so. Has been that way forever.
RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game
1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
RE: RE: RE: RE: This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
QBs to play head-to-head. QBs play against defenses. Which team wins doesn't tell you anything about which QB is better. It tells you which team played better.
No. Let's say the teams play evenly until the last 2 minutes. One guy has a big turnover, the other makes the big throws that win.
Every article written would say so so out-dueled so and so. Has been that way forever.
You understand there is a reason why articles written to entertain would say one "out duelled" the other when in fact the game was not decided by only the QBs, right?
If you want to argue that QBs win and lose games, and give Jones credit for winning games this year, then he has to take the blame for the team's record the last three years also. You can't say all wins are Jones' and all losses are because the rest of the team sucks.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game
1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
Seriously, do you even watch the games or just look at the box score?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game
1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
Seriously, do you even watch the games or just look at the box score?
Watched every second. I know...stats aren't important. Much better to trust feelings, emotions, and your gut...right?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
oh really? Pure 100% bullshit. You do know that QBs may have to extend plays due to the fact WRs cant get open so they either roll out or buy more time which will extend their time to throw.
You're narrative is old and stale with very little context. Try better.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: 2022 Team Passing Offense, yards per game
1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
Seriously, do you even watch the games or just look at the box score?
Watched every second. I know...stats aren't important. Much better to trust feelings, emotions, and your gut...right?
Sigh, I can't believe I'm going to answer this:
The first TD pass was a goal to go situation, where the TE ran it about 3 yards into the endzone. What is wrong with that?
The 2nd TD pass, to Slayton, was what some on BBI are calling Jones best play of the season. He avoided the rush and threw to Slayton fading away from the defenders. Yes Slayton did a good job, but also Jones did too. I find it weird you pick this play to use to criticize Jones.
On the "time to throw" crap stat, if you notice all the QB's with the longest times to throw are mobile/running QB's. The reason is that they are buying time, not that their OL is neessarily great. I think Fields was near the top too. In Jones case the Giants are using a lot of rollout pockets to buy Jones time. Of course when you are rolling him out a lot he will use more time to throw, he has to by design.
You are using stats you don't understand to support points that you push forward your personal agenda.
Frankly I'm not sold on Jones. This is not the offense I'd like to have, and if its all that Jones can do then we should move on. A lot of likely cheaper options can do the same if this is indeed all he can do. However I don't think any of us know that yet, and I get tired of all the "QB whisperers" here who believe they know for a fact what the answer is. I'll leave it up Daboll/Kafka, not you.
Lamar, Herbert, Tannehill, and Carr have/use more time to throw. Jones is tied with Mahomes at 2.5 seconds. In other words there are a lot of reasons why that stat sucks and doesn't tell you much unless you know how each team operates.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: This Jalen Hurts vs Daniel Jones debate only happens on BBI
Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
QBs to play head-to-head. QBs play against defenses. Which team wins doesn't tell you anything about which QB is better. It tells you which team played better.
No. Let's say the teams play evenly until the last 2 minutes. One guy has a big turnover, the other makes the big throws that win.
Every article written would say so so out-dueled so and so. Has been that way forever.
You understand there is a reason why articles written to entertain would say one "out duelled" the other when in fact the game was not decided by only the QBs, right?
If you want to argue that QBs win and lose games, and give Jones credit for winning games this year, then he has to take the blame for the team's record the last three years also. You can't say all wins are Jones' and all losses are because the rest of the team sucks.
I did. Go back and look. He gets blame for the losses, he did and those criticisms stand. He is a young guy and can IMPROVE though? He got better with better coaching. Simple. If he goes back to that I will citicize.
1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
Seriously, do you even watch the games or just look at the box score?
Watched every second. I know...stats aren't important. Much better to trust feelings, emotions, and your gut...right?
Sigh, I can't believe I'm going to answer this:
The first TD pass was a goal to go situation, where the TE ran it about 3 yards into the endzone. What is wrong with that?
The 2nd TD pass, to Slayton, was what some on BBI are calling Jones best play of the season. He avoided the rush and threw to Slayton fading away from the defenders. Yes Slayton did a good job, but also Jones did too. I find it weird you pick this play to use to criticize Jones.
On the "time to throw" crap stat, if you notice all the QB's with the longest times to throw are mobile/running QB's. The reason is that they are buying time, not that their OL is neessarily great. I think Fields was near the top too. In Jones case the Giants are using a lot of rollout pockets to buy Jones time. Of course when you are rolling him out a lot he will use more time to throw, he has to by design.
You are using stats you don't understand to support points that you push forward your personal agenda.
Frankly I'm not sold on Jones. This is not the offense I'd like to have, and if its all that Jones can do then we should move on. A lot of likely cheaper options can do the same if this is indeed all he can do. However I don't think any of us know that yet, and I get tired of all the "QB whisperers" here who believe they know for a fact what the answer is. I'll leave it up Daboll/Kafka, not you.
You're acting like DJ moves around in the pocket like Rodgers or Mahomes...he doesn't. The rollouts were part of the gameplan for 2-3 weeks.
Stats I don't understand? WTF? DJ throws a 1 yard pass, the TE runs 8 yards for a TD, and the fanboys want to act like Jones is Mahomes. He backpedals (stuff every NFL QB does), throws a 3 yard pass, and ends up with a 54 yard TD pass in the box score. Then, the fanboys want to talk about how great DJ is because he has no WRs. He threw the ball 4 total yards for 2 TDs...give him $30 million!
Of course the fanboys are calling the Slayton TD Jones' best play...he throws so few TDs, there's not much to trump it. Every TD DJ throws (all 8 in 9 games) are just impossible plays that very few could complete, right? Go with your gut!
be fanboys of Jones? That means we are rooting for him to do well. I guess I am a fanboy of Love, Lwrence, Thibs, Bellinger, Glowinski, Thomas, Slayton, Gollladay since I root for them to do well.
Are you saying you want Jones to fail and not root for him? Seems like a very odd thing to say as a Giants fan.
That is 100% false. Protecting their make shift receiving core? Yup. Their patch work OL? Yup. But not DJ has never has had a good group of either one. Be careful what you wish for cause I’ll say it again a maroon and gold team has already been sniffing around.
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In comment 15906914 Producer said:
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In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906901 Producer said:
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1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
the OL and WR excuses are starting to whither away. The line is much better and receivers, esp Slayton, are playing better, and we are still left with a remedial passing game. Jones is very good running the ball, he is efficient when he doesn't have to pass much, and he has never demonstrated the ability to lead a high flying / high production passing attack. You have to agree with those observations. And until he demonstrates he can do the latter on a consistent basis, he's not worth anything but lower tier starter dollars.
Your dislike for DJ has not withered away but your reasoning is questionable. I do like the high/flying production passing attack. What ever that is.
Let me ask you a question. First context. Daniel Jones has thrown the fewest pass completions in the NFL of over 20 yards plus among starters who have started at least 7 games. Kenny Pickett has one fewer, but he's only started 6 games.
Bailey Zappe and Jameis Winston have a combined 7 starts, and have more than double the number of 20+ yard pass completions with 27. DJ has 12. Jameis has 3 starts and 13 completions with of more than 20+ yards.
In terms of total air yards, the only NFL starters with fewer are those that have missed games because of injury or because of benching: Zach Wilson, Kenny Pickett, Ryan Tannehill, Mac Jones, Dak Prescott, Baker Mayfield.
Is this the offense you think Daboll and Kafka want to run?
His air yards are among the bottom, his yards per attempt are among the bottom, his attempts are among the bottom, passing TDs among the bottom.
Yet we are waxing poetic and I'm reading about his passer rating of all things...HIS PASSER RATING, which is about as meaningless a stat in football.
Do you know what happens to DJ's passer rating if Jalen Pitre makes the tackle on Slayton? Neither do I. But if Slayton doesn't break that tackle (on a 3-yard completion) and take it to the house and we simply remove that YAC and score from DJ's ledger, his rating is 102.33.
Now I'm not one for if my aunt had a penis she'd be my uncle arguments, but this just goes to show how insignificant this stat is. If Slayton's great play results in a 50 point bump for Jones on his passer rating, why are we heaping the kudos on Jones. Great play by Slayton! He threw the ball 17 times. Let's be real. Passer rating has some value when you are calculating it over the course of a season, or half a season...large numbers need to go in to the calculus for it to be worth anything. 17 attempts...it's a nothing-burger.
I give DJ a ton of credit for managing the game well. For not turning the ball over. He's proven the Giants can win some games as long as he continues to do those things and as long as the defense plays well and Saquon is here and healthy.
But Saquon had 36 touches yesterday. They ran the ball more than double the amount of times they asked Jones to throw it. Again, I ask...is this the offense you think Daboll and Kafka want to run. Will this type of offense be sustainable, and will it win in the playoffs?
Yes, I want to see better receivers. I want to see what Jones can do in a passing game that looks more like KC's or Buffalo's.
But I've watched that game, and I didn't come away with, "wow, Jones played so great, he really won us that game."
What won yesterday was Saquon, Dexter Lawrence, Leo Williams, Julian Love, and maybe then...DJ for managing the game well, getting some timely scrambles and not turning the ball over.
And this is the last thing I'll say...you're watching one of the most mediocre (to use an optimistic word) passing offenses in the NFL with mediocre scoring output weekly and every week all we read is how great DJ is. Without Saquon, this offense would sink to the very bottom of the league. He is keeping this team afloat offensively, and everything that works is playing off of Saquon.
BTW, the OP is talking about QBR, which is a significantly different approach than the traditional Passer Rating formula.
I believe that is why he will not be re-signed. But to just whisk away the incompetence at the WR position is disingenuous too.
BTW, the OP is talking about QBR, which is a significantly different approach than the traditional Passer Rating formula.
Yeah I realize that my post wasn't clear on who exactly I was responding to (intentionally). I was not responding to the OP in general but generically to posters that have been pumping up that stat yesterday and today and to the ones calling out anyone that dares to do anything but heap accolades on DJ.
That's MORE than fair. You're completely right. In terms of credit, Slayton is ahead of Jones because the Giants needed that TD when Slayton made that play.
Jones did extend some drives and controlled the game, he gets some credit, but he's down the list some.
And as I have said since January - who they can find to replace him must be factored into the equation of whether or not to sign him. The fact that guys like Levis, Van Dyke, and other college QBs have been lousy complicates the question, as does the winning the Giants are doing
Fields - this is what Greg Cosell said yesterday about him:
@GregCosell breaks down what he is seeing from Fields and the Bears on tape: “Their pass game is essentially remedial and elementary…”
I believe that is why he will not be re-signed. But to just whisk away the incompetence at the WR position is disingenuous too.
If this is in response to me I haven't done this. I've always said that the lack of talent at WR matters. It's certainly relevant to the overall numbers, the offensive design, all of it. It also doesn't mean with a big leap forward in terms of receiver talent, that DJ will also look as dynamic a passer as even Kirk Cousins.
Let's consider the case for Tua. A weak-armed QB who couldn't throw the deep ball. Once again, the team was looking to replace him. Now he's looking fine that he has 2 very dangerous WRs in Waddle and Hill.
Let's now consider the case for QBs who are unquestionably great, who now have porous offensive lines and/or no WRs of any consequence like Rodgers who has been getting sacked and has no decent WRs. Like Brady who lost his security to remain a pocket passer when his Oline deteriorated. Like Stafford whose Oline also deteriorated and he has no time to find his receivers as easily and as often as he would like.
That leaves the GM with two options. Option #1 is you keep the QB and do all you can to build an adequate offensive line and elite receivers through the draft or free agency.
Option #2 is you draft a new QB. However, this has its drawbacks because you will probably have to mortgage future draft picks, which eliminates the team's chances for improving the offensive line and obtaining elite WRs. The new QB will therefore not be in the best environment to succeed until the team can provide him with adequate protections and elite WRs. Chances are slim that will happen immediately. There is also the risk that the new QB may not even be as good as the one he is supposed to replace.
The GM and coach must make good decisions as to what is best for the team. In my opinion, if you already have a QB who has led his team to a 7-2 record, imagine how even more successful he could be if you protect him better and add better talent at WR and/or other positions of weakness. Drafting a new QB delays improving the other positions. That then requires adding talent through FA, which we all know is expensive and is no guarantee. Not all good players thrive in a different environment and system.
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Jones is having a great year. He isn't. But he is winning and that is all Daboll is asking him to do.
I believe that is why he will not be re-signed. But to just whisk away the incompetence at the WR position is disingenuous too.
If this is in response to me I haven't done this. I've always said that the lack of talent at WR matters. It's certainly relevant to the overall numbers, the offensive design, all of it. It also doesn't mean with a big leap forward in terms of receiver talent, that DJ will also look as dynamic a passer as even Kirk Cousins.
Two or three games back Sy made a comment saying something to the effect of what Jones would look like with better than near league bottom WR talent. I think it was the Ravens game.
I am with you in that I think he is gone after this year. Not the type QB Daboll wants. And there is no doubt Daboll and Kafka are managing the offense in a certain conservative way and it is a combination or reasons plus when you have a Saquon Barkley you lean in him.
But I do not think you can not expect Jones to have better numbers if he had mid-level WR corp - or even just one Stefan Diggs or a CeeDee Lamb.
I find it hysterical that fans think coaches and GMs simplify their QB evaluation to the point where team wins are even remotely close to the most important factor for any individual player.
It's fine if fans want to take such a simplistic approach to say that they don't want to fix what appears to be unbroken, but the coaches and front office executives are privy to what factors they're handcuffing themselves with in order to keep that scenario unbroken in the first place.
The short version is that I feel very confident in saying that the team's W/L record may help DJ's cause in his contract negotiations but will be far from the top factor the team considers when they are faced with a long view of their future at the QB position, especially when they are winning in a way that asks relatively little of the QB, compared to the offensive schemes with which our offensive coaches share their pedigree (Buffalo and Kansas City, most notably).
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That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
I find it hysterical that fans think coaches and GMs simplify their QB evaluation to the point where team wins are even remotely close to the most important factor for any individual player.
It's fine if fans want to take such a simplistic approach to say that they don't want to fix what appears to be unbroken, but the coaches and front office executives are privy to what factors they're handcuffing themselves with in order to keep that scenario unbroken in the first place.
The short version is that I feel very confident in saying that the team's W/L record may help DJ's cause in his contract negotiations but will be far from the top factor the team considers when they are faced with a long view of their future at the QB position, especially when they are winning in a way that asks relatively little of the QB, compared to the offensive schemes with which our offensive coaches share their pedigree (Buffalo and Kansas City, most notably).
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Jones is having a great year. He isn't. But he is winning and that is all Daboll is asking him to do.
I believe that is why he will not be re-signed. But to just whisk away the incompetence at the WR position is disingenuous too.
If this is in response to me I haven't done this. I've always said that the lack of talent at WR matters. It's certainly relevant to the overall numbers, the offensive design, all of it. It also doesn't mean with a big leap forward in terms of receiver talent, that DJ will also look as dynamic a passer as even Kirk Cousins.
Yes but this is my point. You don't know that he won't look better than Cousins. We don't know, and for posters to continually make believe they do know is nonsense. Daboll/Kafka probably have an idea, but thats about it.
After the season Daboll and Schoen will decide, and then we will know what their opinion is, because I do agree this is not the offense moving forward. Whatever they think I am fine with. I just get a little tired of the constant bashing by people who really have no idea what the truth is
That's not at all what we are saying, and I think you know it.
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In comment 15906982 Thegratefulhead said:
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That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
I find it hysterical that fans think coaches and GMs simplify their QB evaluation to the point where team wins are even remotely close to the most important factor for any individual player.
It's fine if fans want to take such a simplistic approach to say that they don't want to fix what appears to be unbroken, but the coaches and front office executives are privy to what factors they're handcuffing themselves with in order to keep that scenario unbroken in the first place.
The short version is that I feel very confident in saying that the team's W/L record may help DJ's cause in his contract negotiations but will be far from the top factor the team considers when they are faced with a long view of their future at the QB position, especially when they are winning in a way that asks relatively little of the QB, compared to the offensive schemes with which our offensive coaches share their pedigree (Buffalo and Kansas City, most notably).
I feel confident that by far, the most meaningful stat to all of ownership, management and players is wins. So we disagree on a profound level on this topic. Not a lot reason for us to unpack it.
Fair enough. Let me know how you think they should valuate DJ for his next contract with the approach you have in mind.
He already beat Rodgers H2H, so if the Giants also finish the season with more wins than Green Bay, is it safe to say you'd endorse $50M+ AAV for DJ since he'd have better numbers in your only valuable metric?
Let's consider the case for Tua. A weak-armed QB who couldn't throw the deep ball. Once again, the team was looking to replace him. Now he's looking fine that he has 2 very dangerous WRs in Waddle and Hill.
Let's now consider the case for QBs who are unquestionably great, who now have porous offensive lines and/or no WRs of any consequence like Rodgers who has been getting sacked and has no decent WRs. Like Brady who lost his security to remain a pocket passer when his Oline deteriorated. Like Stafford whose Oline also deteriorated and he has no time to find his receivers as easily and as often as he would like.
That leaves the GM with two options. Option #1 is you keep the QB and do all you can to build an adequate offensive line and elite receivers through the draft or free agency.
Option #2 is you draft a new QB. However, this has its drawbacks because you will probably have to mortgage future draft picks, which eliminates the team's chances for improving the offensive line and obtaining elite WRs. The new QB will therefore not be in the best environment to succeed until the team can provide him with adequate protections and elite WRs. Chances are slim that will happen immediately. There is also the risk that the new QB may not even be as good as the one he is supposed to replace.
The GM and coach must make good decisions as to what is best for the team. In my opinion, if you already have a QB who has led his team to a 7-2 record, imagine how even more successful he could be if you protect him better and add better talent at WR and/or other positions of weakness. Drafting a new QB delays improving the other positions. That then requires adding talent through FA, which we all know is expensive and is no guarantee. Not all good players thrive in a different environment and system.
Your looking at option 2 in a very narrow way.
Really it's more than 2 options.
IF you have the opportunity to move up and get a truly elite franchise QB (you never know), then you do it. You absolutely should trade nearly whatever it takes to get him. The guy I most project at this early date to be a superstar QB in the NFL is Hendon Hooker.
There's a long process to go, however, and people seem to be all over the map on where Hooker will go in the draft. Stroud and Young seem to be ahead of him. I would love for that scenario to be the case on draft day.
Beane manipulated the draft in 2018 in a masterclass fashion, with Schoen having a front-row seat (and perhaps plenty of involvement in getting the deals done).
Before the draft, he moved up from the 21st spot to 12 by trading Cordy Glenn, the 21st pick, and a 5th rounder to the Bengals.
They traded Tyrod Taylor to the Browns for a third round pick.
Then they traded with the Buccaneers to move up to the 7th pick from 12 (and a 7th rounder) by sending the Bucs #12 and two 2nd round picks, where they took Josh Allen.
So many things are possible in the draft, it doesn't need to be distilled down to we have to trade away the next two years' worth of premium picks plus to move up from the 20's to #1 overall.
And we have the benefit of a GM who has a creative background when it comes to approaching the draft.
Further, Tyrod Taylor or another QB can be a bridge and still win NFL games while a rookie redshirts.
Or DJ could be a bridge. Or you can roll with DJ for awhile and see if you can build a championship-caliber team around him and do it that way. But at any rate, even if it's not with a first round pick, you have to get another young QB in here with a live arm.
It is still up in the air as to what he would be like after getting them. He still hasn't been fairly evaluated. Some may believe he's never going to be THE guy. Some believe he could be THE guy. Nobody knows for sure until you give him what every QB needs.
Certainly, the Giants will do their due diligence in evaluating the QBs in the draft or free agency to see if there is someone who can improve the team. They do this daily. But as I said before, they have to weigh all the factors and costs involved in order to do the right thing that is best for the team.
I'm not buying stock on Hurts Inc either, but I think he's closer to getting a deal with Philly than Jones is with NYG.
If Hurts gets to at least the NFCC game, and he's a key reason why, I think a deal is probably close to 100%.
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If the Saints pick gives them a chance to get in a position for stroud or Young I think they do it
I'm not buying stock on Hurts Inc either, but I think he's closer to getting a deal with Philly than Jones is with NYG.
If Hurts gets to at least the NFCC game, and he's a key reason why, I think a deal is probably close to 100%.
Agreed
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Those who think otherwise don't know what they're watching.
They are scouting everyone. That’s their effing job. And they could realistically lose Jones now even if they want him back-so they damn well better. You’re saying the sky is blue. Congrats.
This was a response to the OP stating that the sky was purple. If you've been on this site for any amount of time you would understand why that is necessary.
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That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
That's not at all what we are saying, and I think you know it.
I believe will be 9 and in 2 weeks. I think we will go on to SWEEP Philly.
Yes, sweep.
Speculation, sure.
Have you considered that posiblity at all?
Why?
Bias.
This team is built to win in the weather.
They have PROVEN they have the discipline to win ugly.
Leave room in your opinion to be wrong.
different offenses, different personnel, different game plans.
Come on, you are better than this, I think.
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In comment 15906982 Thegratefulhead said:
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That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
That's not at all what we are saying, and I think you know it.
Fair, I do, my post isn't entirely fair, but the smart people that post here are not being fair either. Throwing a little back at you all. You don't get to 7 and without solid QB play. He has 2 ints. His pocket presence is objectively improved.
I believe will be 9 and in 2 weeks. I think we will go on to SWEEP Philly.
Yes, sweep.
Speculation, sure.
Have you considered that posiblity at all?
Why?
Bias.
This team is built to win in the weather.
They have PROVEN they have the discipline to win ugly.
Leave room in your opinion to be wrong.
I always leave room for my opinion to be wrong. I don't care if I'm wrong. I want the Giants to be contenders for multiple SB titles. I am enjoying the season and the wins, but I think we're a paper tiger that will get summarily squashed in the playoffs.
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Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
different offenses, different personnel, different game plans.
Come on, you are better than this, I think.
And I would add, I am completely surprised by Hurts' development as a passer. I never thought it would happen.
And I would add, I am completely surprised by Hurts' development as a passer. I never thought it would happen.
Theres no doubt Hurts has improved, but he has great weapons and a great OL. Those things matter greatly.
For many this site provides a source for self-worth. They call out others when anything supports that they are right, or hide or exaggerate when things prove they may be wrong. It's sad.
The one thing these folks won't ever do is change their opinion based on additional facts. That's why the "one view" posters on this site are the ones to mainly ignore. You are talking to people working on faith not facts.
He’s a better runner without a doubt but I think it’s debatable how big the margin between the two is when it comes to passing ability.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
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Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
Well he is running an offense that is leading us to wins, so yes with the team he has - I think he is quite happy.
He'll be happier with a new QB next year. I have no idea what exactly goes into QBR but it must just be short completions and turnovers. Sure can't be passing yards, passing TDs, air yards, YPA, team passing, team scoring....
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Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
QBs to play head-to-head. QBs play against defenses. Which team wins doesn't tell you anything about which QB is better. It tells you which team played better.
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And I would add, I am completely surprised by Hurts' development as a passer. I never thought it would happen.
Theres no doubt Hurts has improved, but he has great weapons and a great OL. Those things matter greatly.
Of course they do. Nobody claims they don't matter. But Hurts' tape is impressive. He's making difficult throws beyond the hashes into tight windows with regularity. I don't know what to say about his progression. It's probably not as good as Allen's year 3 progression, but it is stunning nonetheless. Maybe he falls off, rest of season. But he doesn't look like a fluke. And if he continues to win and put up impressive numbers, he'll get some kind of juicy extension.
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In comment 15907082 Producer said:
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In comment 15906982 Thegratefulhead said:
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That people think the coaches, GM and players care more about advanced passing stats than wins. It is really a foolish take and the motivation for it considering the context of the last few years of posting from certain members, it is obvious why.
That's not at all what we are saying, and I think you know it.
Fair, I do, my post isn't entirely fair, but the smart people that post here are not being fair either. Throwing a little back at you all. You don't get to 7 and without solid QB play. He has 2 ints. His pocket presence is objectively improved.
I believe will be 9 and in 2 weeks. I think we will go on to SWEEP Philly.
Yes, sweep.
Speculation, sure.
Have you considered that posiblity at all?
Why?
Bias.
This team is built to win in the weather.
They have PROVEN they have the discipline to win ugly.
Leave room in your opinion to be wrong.
I always leave room for my opinion to be wrong. I don't care if I'm wrong. I want the Giants to be contenders for multiple SB titles. I am enjoying the season and the wins, but I think we're a paper tiger that will get summarily squashed in the playoffs.
Am not sold on the belief that Jones cannot win in the post season.
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In comment 15907112 Producer said:
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Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
QBs to play head-to-head. QBs play against defenses. Which team wins doesn't tell you anything about which QB is better. It tells you which team played better.
Every article written would say so so out-dueled so and so. Has been that way forever.
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In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906901 Producer said:
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1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
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In comment 15907134 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 15907112 Producer said:
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Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
QBs to play head-to-head. QBs play against defenses. Which team wins doesn't tell you anything about which QB is better. It tells you which team played better.
No. Let's say the teams play evenly until the last 2 minutes. One guy has a big turnover, the other makes the big throws that win.
Every article written would say so so out-dueled so and so. Has been that way forever.
You understand there is a reason why articles written to entertain would say one "out duelled" the other when in fact the game was not decided by only the QBs, right?
If you want to argue that QBs win and lose games, and give Jones credit for winning games this year, then he has to take the blame for the team's record the last three years also. You can't say all wins are Jones' and all losses are because the rest of the team sucks.
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In comment 15906914 Producer said:
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In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906901 Producer said:
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1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
Seriously, do you even watch the games or just look at the box score?
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In comment 15906925 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906914 Producer said:
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In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906901 Producer said:
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1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
Seriously, do you even watch the games or just look at the box score?
Watched every second. I know...stats aren't important. Much better to trust feelings, emotions, and your gut...right?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
oh really? Pure 100% bullshit. You do know that QBs may have to extend plays due to the fact WRs cant get open so they either roll out or buy more time which will extend their time to throw.
You're narrative is old and stale with very little context. Try better.
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In comment 15907164 GMen72 said:
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In comment 15906925 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906914 Producer said:
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In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906901 Producer said:
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1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
Seriously, do you even watch the games or just look at the box score?
Watched every second. I know...stats aren't important. Much better to trust feelings, emotions, and your gut...right?
Sigh, I can't believe I'm going to answer this:
The first TD pass was a goal to go situation, where the TE ran it about 3 yards into the endzone. What is wrong with that?
The 2nd TD pass, to Slayton, was what some on BBI are calling Jones best play of the season. He avoided the rush and threw to Slayton fading away from the defenders. Yes Slayton did a good job, but also Jones did too. I find it weird you pick this play to use to criticize Jones.
On the "time to throw" crap stat, if you notice all the QB's with the longest times to throw are mobile/running QB's. The reason is that they are buying time, not that their OL is neessarily great. I think Fields was near the top too. In Jones case the Giants are using a lot of rollout pockets to buy Jones time. Of course when you are rolling him out a lot he will use more time to throw, he has to by design.
You are using stats you don't understand to support points that you push forward your personal agenda.
Frankly I'm not sold on Jones. This is not the offense I'd like to have, and if its all that Jones can do then we should move on. A lot of likely cheaper options can do the same if this is indeed all he can do. However I don't think any of us know that yet, and I get tired of all the "QB whisperers" here who believe they know for a fact what the answer is. I'll leave it up Daboll/Kafka, not you.
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In comment 15907143 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 15907134 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 15907112 Producer said:
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Jalen Hurts has become and objectively better passing QB than Daniel Jones and he will get a deal from Philly. He is far ahead of Jones in yds/game, Y/A, Y/C, TD%.
We get to play the games. Let's see how they do head to head. Hurts is objectably having the better year.
Conceded.
If Jones sweeps him, with the comparative rosters, I would give the edge to Jones at that point.
QBs to play head-to-head. QBs play against defenses. Which team wins doesn't tell you anything about which QB is better. It tells you which team played better.
No. Let's say the teams play evenly until the last 2 minutes. One guy has a big turnover, the other makes the big throws that win.
Every article written would say so so out-dueled so and so. Has been that way forever.
You understand there is a reason why articles written to entertain would say one "out duelled" the other when in fact the game was not decided by only the QBs, right?
If you want to argue that QBs win and lose games, and give Jones credit for winning games this year, then he has to take the blame for the team's record the last three years also. You can't say all wins are Jones' and all losses are because the rest of the team sucks.
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In comment 15907174 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15907164 GMen72 said:
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In comment 15906925 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906914 Producer said:
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In comment 15906909 PatersonPlank said:
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In comment 15906901 Producer said:
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1 Kansas City 313.9
2 Buffalo 294.2
3 Miami 293.8
4 Tampa Bay 269.8
5 LA Chargers 265.3
6 Cincinnati 263.0
7 Minnesota 248.8
8 Philadelphia 242.3
9 Detroit 241.4
10 New Orleans 237.7
11 San Francisco 236.3
12 Las Vegas 228.6
13 Seattle 227.8
14 Indianapolis 226.4
15 Denver 223.6
16 Green Bay 223.0
17 Jacksonville 222.6
18 Arizona 220.6
19 NY Jets 219.0
20 Cleveland 217.1
21 Washington 215.4
22 LA Rams 214.6
23 New England 202.7
24 Pittsburgh 199.4
24 Houston 199.4
26 Dallas 198.6
27 Baltimore 186.8
28 Carolina 176.2
29 NY Giants 161.0
30 Atlanta 156.8
31 Tennessee 148.2
32 Chicago 128.1 passing yards per game - ( New Window )
If we throw it 17 times, or 25 times, we aren't going to throw it for 350 yds per game. Its just math. This list speaks to the offense we are running, not Jones if that is the point here.
Do you really think Brian Daboll prefers to run an offense that is near the bottom of the league in passing production? Use your brain box. The team he just came from, the offense he just engineered, where are they ranked?
My "brain box" really thinks Daboll wants to win, and when looking at our lousy WRs, our poor pass protection of the IOL, Barkley, and our mobile QB, this is the best way to do it. Why would you throw it 35-40 times with our WRs on the receiving end, and limit Barkley's touches?
Can't your "brain box" understand that this may not be Jones specific, like your heavily biased opinion says, and may be a decision made by looking at the big picture?
The "poor pass protection" argument went out the window when the stsrs were posted showing DJ takes the longest to throw the ball of any QB in the NFL. You can't have shitty protection and take the longest to get the ball out.
Both of DJs TDs yesterday traveled a TOTAL of 4 yards (3 and 1)...the receivers ran a total of 62 yards on those TDs. So, 4 air yards, 62 YAC...but the receivers suck?
Seriously, do you even watch the games or just look at the box score?
Watched every second. I know...stats aren't important. Much better to trust feelings, emotions, and your gut...right?
Sigh, I can't believe I'm going to answer this:
The first TD pass was a goal to go situation, where the TE ran it about 3 yards into the endzone. What is wrong with that?
The 2nd TD pass, to Slayton, was what some on BBI are calling Jones best play of the season. He avoided the rush and threw to Slayton fading away from the defenders. Yes Slayton did a good job, but also Jones did too. I find it weird you pick this play to use to criticize Jones.
On the "time to throw" crap stat, if you notice all the QB's with the longest times to throw are mobile/running QB's. The reason is that they are buying time, not that their OL is neessarily great. I think Fields was near the top too. In Jones case the Giants are using a lot of rollout pockets to buy Jones time. Of course when you are rolling him out a lot he will use more time to throw, he has to by design.
You are using stats you don't understand to support points that you push forward your personal agenda.
Frankly I'm not sold on Jones. This is not the offense I'd like to have, and if its all that Jones can do then we should move on. A lot of likely cheaper options can do the same if this is indeed all he can do. However I don't think any of us know that yet, and I get tired of all the "QB whisperers" here who believe they know for a fact what the answer is. I'll leave it up Daboll/Kafka, not you.
You're acting like DJ moves around in the pocket like Rodgers or Mahomes...he doesn't. The rollouts were part of the gameplan for 2-3 weeks.
Stats I don't understand? WTF? DJ throws a 1 yard pass, the TE runs 8 yards for a TD, and the fanboys want to act like Jones is Mahomes. He backpedals (stuff every NFL QB does), throws a 3 yard pass, and ends up with a 54 yard TD pass in the box score. Then, the fanboys want to talk about how great DJ is because he has no WRs. He threw the ball 4 total yards for 2 TDs...give him $30 million!
Of course the fanboys are calling the Slayton TD Jones' best play...he throws so few TDs, there's not much to trump it. Every TD DJ throws (all 8 in 9 games) are just impossible plays that very few could complete, right? Go with your gut!
Are you saying you want Jones to fail and not root for him? Seems like a very odd thing to say as a Giants fan.