based on his rookie year, with a bad ankle, bad team and bad coaching, shouldn't be taken seriously.
Not necessary to rehash this. It was probably as much anti-DG as bad mouthing Thomas. Why even bring it up? Dwelling on a few sentiments three years ago is not worth the effort.
He in fact did really struggle in stretches his rookie year. He and the team were not forthcoming about the extent of his injury (and that’s the right thing to do). He was banged up in camp, and eventually has needed two surgeries.
Without the benefit of that knowledge, and just judging by the information fans had at the time, it was alarming.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
He in fact did really struggle in stretches his rookie year. He and the team were not forthcoming about the extent of his injury (and that’s the right thing to do). He was banged up in camp, and eventually has needed two surgeries.
Without the benefit of that knowledge, and just judging by the information fans had at the time, it was alarming.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
It's also not likely that his struggles were all due to the injury.
Rookies usually struggle. For some reason, that lesson never seems to get learned.
That all said, the reason why there was such a hot debate about Thomas is that fans got locked into their favorites on draft day, and when they didn't get their way, they assumed they were right and wanted the world to know it.
There are open questions all over the lineup. The offensive line will be the primary focus, with a decision due on Lemieux and two-four positions in flux. Also curious who gets practice snaps at WR, TE, DL (other than Williams and Lawrence), ILB, EDGE, S, CB, PR... basically everywhere except QB and RB.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
It's also not likely that his struggles were all due to the injury.
Rookies usually struggle. For some reason, that lesson never seems to get learned.
That all said, the reason why there was such a hot debate about Thomas is that fans got locked into their favorites on draft day, and when they didn't get their way, they assumed they were right and wanted the world to know it.
Thomas had some games his rookie year where he flat looked like an UDFA, not your normal growing pains. And I was generally pro-Thomas as the pick.
There were times his rookie year where he was getting beat like a bag, and I was very nervous.
With the benefit of the information, it makes sense. He was playing on an ankle that required surgery. My view on Thomas - ( New Window )
based on his rookie year, with a bad ankle, bad team and bad coaching, shouldn't be taken seriously.
Not necessary to rehash this. It was probably as much anti-DG as bad mouthing Thomas. Why even bring it up? Dwelling on a few sentiments three years ago is not worth the effort.
Not sure if you're thinking I brought it up. It was in the twitter thread above. A writer (Stapleton I think) said "from bust to best".
He in fact did really struggle in stretches his rookie year. He and the team were not forthcoming about the extent of his injury (and that’s the right thing to do). He was banged up in camp, and eventually has needed two surgeries.
Without the benefit of that knowledge, and just judging by the information fans had at the time, it was alarming.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
Not to toot my own horn, but I posted a lot during his rookie year that his technique and footwork were great, he was just guessing wrong. Once he got experience and learned his opponents' traits/tendencies, he'd be very good.
based on his rookie year, with a bad ankle, bad team and bad coaching, shouldn't be taken seriously.
Not necessary to rehash this. It was probably as much anti-DG as bad mouthing Thomas. Why even bring it up? Dwelling on a few sentiments three years ago is not worth the effort.
Not sure if you're thinking I brought it up. It was in the twitter thread above. A writer (Stapleton I think) said "from bust to best".
I don't know if Stapleton was referring to some fans thinking he was a bust. As Eric said, rookies struggle, even without injuries.
As far as other OTs looking better early on, pretty sure the others weren't playing LT.
He in fact did really struggle in stretches his rookie year. He and the team were not forthcoming about the extent of his injury (and that’s the right thing to do). He was banged up in camp, and eventually has needed two surgeries.
Without the benefit of that knowledge, and just judging by the information fans had at the time, it was alarming.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
It's also not likely that his struggles were all due to the injury.
Rookies usually struggle. For some reason, that lesson never seems to get learned.
That all said, the reason why there was such a hot debate about Thomas is that fans got locked into their favorites on draft day, and when they didn't get their way, they assumed they were right and wanted the world to know it.
People also ignore the fact that there was no rookie camp, no minicamp, and no preseason games his rookie year because of COVID.
As far as other OTs looking better early on, pretty sure the others weren't playing LT.
Not taking any position on the Thomas debate, whatever it is, but, as a matter of fact, both Mekhi Becton and Jedrick Wills played left tackle from the get go as rookies.
Tristan Wirfs was the only one of the top four tackles of that class to play right tackle with his NFL team.
RE: I hope the beats are able to see who gets reps this afternoon.
There are open questions all over the lineup. The offensive line will be the primary focus, with a decision due on Lemieux and two-four positions in flux. Also curious who gets practice snaps at WR, TE, DL (other than Williams and Lawrence), ILB, EDGE, S, CB, PR... basically everywhere except QB and RB.
I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to report that. Besides, they are kicked out at the beginning of practice. Always have been.
based on his rookie year, with a bad ankle, bad team and bad coaching, shouldn't be taken seriously.
Not necessary to rehash this. It was probably as much anti-DG as bad mouthing Thomas. Why even bring it up? Dwelling on a few sentiments three years ago is not worth the effort.
Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, Love, McKinney, Big Cat ... all horrible according to the Official BBI I Hate David Gettleman Club.
use their full compliment of backs this Sunday. Breida and Brightwell both should see carries, time in the backfield and some pass patterns. We need to manage Barkley a bit especially on a short turn around week.
This might be a week we see more pass rushers than run stuffers, even though the LIons can run some. Overall we know if we pressure Goff he will turn it over.
why are we continuing to talk about Thomas' play as a rookie? Most rookie OTs struggle. He was also 21 years old, starting at LT, and had a pretty horrendous group at OL, and bad coaching. Tell me why we are supposed to bring up the past on Thomas?
why are we continuing to talk about Thomas' play as a rookie? Most rookie OTs struggle. He was also 21 years old, starting at LT, and had a pretty horrendous group at OL, and bad coaching. Tell me why we are supposed to bring up the past on Thomas?
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
·
4m
DL Dexter Lawrence (rest) and OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux (illness) not spotted at practice.
TE Daniel Bellinger (eye) and OL Ben Bredeson (IR for two more games) were running outside with trainers while the team practiced inside due to wet fields.
christian - the optimists did not have it right on Thomas? He's an All-Pro right now. How did they not have it right?
Can you point me to the discussions where posters on this site concluded Thomas’s very obvious, and at points terrible play were in large part due to injury?
My recollection of the discussions was largely He was a high pick and rookies struggle so of course he’ll be fine.
Said in another way, if Thomas hadn’t have been hurt, and that was where he was starting from, he would have been in trouble.
why are we continuing to talk about Thomas' play as a rookie? Most rookie OTs struggle. He was also 21 years old, starting at LT, and had a pretty horrendous group at OL, and bad coaching. Tell me why we are supposed to bring up the past on Thomas?
because in the twitter feed above, someone wrote about Thomas "from bust to best". I thought it was stupid for anyone to ever use the word "bust" to describe him. But I guess that's the world we live in.
I recall distinctly that there was a lot of concern about his ankle, including when he limped visibly back to the huddle or to the sidelines. I may be wrong, but I think he missed a couple of starts his rookie year. Whether that translated directly into debates about bust or not, I can't say in hindsight, but I also don't see how his condition could not have factored into assessments about his level of play.
Thomas had little time as did all the rookies. LT is amongst the hardest positions to adjust to and play in the NFL.
I think he did have the ankle but a big part of it was Columbo was trying to change his technique. Said it would benefit him in the long run. There was some stuff posted on this topic and then his old OL coach made some comments supporting AT.
Judge stepped in. Fired Columbo. Then the whole OL but really AT/SL both starting playing well. Year 2 it was a ankle issue and he struggled all year getting push but was solid in pass sets.
Now we see someone healthy and taking a big step. I think the scheme has done wonders as well as they are not putting a inordinate amount of pressure on the OL in PB sets..
I think he did have the ankle but a big part of it was Columbo was trying to change his technique. Said it would benefit him in the long run. There was some stuff posted on this topic and then his old OL coach made some comments supporting AT.
Judge stepped in. Fired Columbo....
That was so weird, almost shocking, that JJ's hand picked guy and the HC had it out on the practice field, nearly coming to blows (?), with Columbo stalking off, as I recall it. So strange. I don't recall the immediate turn around in OL performance, but could be as you say.
use their full complement of backs this Sunday. Breida and Brightwell both should see carries, time in the backfield and some pass patterns. We need to manage Barkley a bit especially on a short turn around week.
Fully agree, and Detroit is a team Breida can hurt on the edge. That defense is terrible. They made a few plays against Green Bay (IIRC off a tipped ball and two awful decisions by Rodgers), then reverted to form against Chicago.
Quote:
This might be a week we see more pass rushers than run stuffers, even though the Lions can run some. Overall we know if we pressure Goff he will turn it over.
I'm unsure about this one. Detroit's running game is pretty good, and Goff/Swift will burn the Giants if the screen game is as open as it was against Houston.
I recall distinctly that there was a lot of concern about his ankle, including when he limped visibly back to the huddle or to the sidelines. I may be wrong, but I think he missed a couple of starts his rookie year. Whether that translated directly into debates about bust or not, I can't say in hindsight, but I also don't see how his condition could not have factored into assessments about his level of play.
CHP, I took a look back and there was zero news about Thomas having ankle issues as a rookie.
The only start Thomas missed rookie year was when he was benched for the first half of a game for being late for a meeting during that practice week.
What you and others are recalling about the ankle is from his second year, 2021.
Link is to BBI thread from December 2020, rookie year, posing issue of Thomas vs Becton. Becton's injury issues are mentioned; nothing about an ankle for Thomas.
Overall, there are a number of positive comments about Thomas in the thread, some exceptions.
Giants LT Andrew Thomas underwent surgery on his left ankle in late January, according to a source. Thomas had surgery on the same ankle after his rookie season. Thomas should be 100 percent by the start of the offseason program (but the team will likely exercise caution).
He hurt his ankle in training camp his rookie year
Played all 16 games as it was deemed manageable. He had his first surgery in 01/21. Then his second year it was ankle the ankle that I think the Giants also added "foot" to the equation. He then had another surgery this past offseason.
Seems to me, Ezeuda’s play has somewhat mirrored Lemieux’s rookie year. All I remember hearing was how much the running game improved with him in the lineup, but couldn’t pass block worth a dam. The difference is Ezeuda comes in with better footwork, but still hasn’t translated to pass pro. I’m hopeful they can both clean that up.
RE: He hurt his ankle in training camp his rookie year
Played all 16 games as it was deemed manageable. He had his first surgery in 01/21. Then his second year it was ankle the ankle that I think the Giants also added "foot" to the equation. He then had another surgery this past offseason.
Thomas had significant ankle issues at Georgia.
Since he had surgery after his NYG rookie year, it is reasonable to presume it was an issue during the season, but it was not a publicized fact at the time.
As far as I can tell, and as far as BBI discussions of his rookie performance reflect.
Played all 16 games as it was deemed manageable. He had his first surgery in 01/21. Then his second year it was ankle the ankle that I think the Giants also added "foot" to the equation. He then had another surgery this past offseason.////
Thomas had significant ankle issues at Georgia.
Since he had surgery after his NYG rookie year, it is reasonable to presume it was an issue during the season, but it was not a publicized fact at the time.
As far as I can tell, and as far as BBI discussions of his rookie performance reflect.
thanks, shyster, and re. reply to my earlier supposition: I guess I must have rolled my memory of 2021 back into the 2020 season, confounds me a bit.
Not necessary to rehash this. It was probably as much anti-DG as bad mouthing Thomas. Why even bring it up? Dwelling on a few sentiments three years ago is not worth the effort.
He in fact did really struggle in stretches his rookie year. He and the team were not forthcoming about the extent of his injury (and that’s the right thing to do). He was banged up in camp, and eventually has needed two surgeries.
Without the benefit of that knowledge, and just judging by the information fans had at the time, it was alarming.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
He in fact did really struggle in stretches his rookie year. He and the team were not forthcoming about the extent of his injury (and that’s the right thing to do). He was banged up in camp, and eventually has needed two surgeries.
Without the benefit of that knowledge, and just judging by the information fans had at the time, it was alarming.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
It's also not likely that his struggles were all due to the injury.
Rookies usually struggle. For some reason, that lesson never seems to get learned.
That all said, the reason why there was such a hot debate about Thomas is that fans got locked into their favorites on draft day, and when they didn't get their way, they assumed they were right and wanted the world to know it.
From 2020, Thomas came out — on average — as the 3rd ranked tackle.
So, when he went #1 and then didn’t have as good a first season as some of the others, it was get mad/freak out time.
I should know… I was mad and freaking out big time!!!
It's also not likely that his struggles were all due to the injury.
Rookies usually struggle. For some reason, that lesson never seems to get learned.
That all said, the reason why there was such a hot debate about Thomas is that fans got locked into their favorites on draft day, and when they didn't get their way, they assumed they were right and wanted the world to know it.
Thomas had some games his rookie year where he flat looked like an UDFA, not your normal growing pains. And I was generally pro-Thomas as the pick.
There were times his rookie year where he was getting beat like a bag, and I was very nervous.
With the benefit of the information, it makes sense. He was playing on an ankle that required surgery.
My view on Thomas - ( New Window )
Quote:
based on his rookie year, with a bad ankle, bad team and bad coaching, shouldn't be taken seriously.
Not necessary to rehash this. It was probably as much anti-DG as bad mouthing Thomas. Why even bring it up? Dwelling on a few sentiments three years ago is not worth the effort.
Not sure if you're thinking I brought it up. It was in the twitter thread above. A writer (Stapleton I think) said "from bust to best".
He in fact did really struggle in stretches his rookie year. He and the team were not forthcoming about the extent of his injury (and that’s the right thing to do). He was banged up in camp, and eventually has needed two surgeries.
Without the benefit of that knowledge, and just judging by the information fans had at the time, it was alarming.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
Not to toot my own horn, but I posted a lot during his rookie year that his technique and footwork were great, he was just guessing wrong. Once he got experience and learned his opponents' traits/tendencies, he'd be very good.
Quote:
In comment 15909599 Dr. D said:
Quote:
based on his rookie year, with a bad ankle, bad team and bad coaching, shouldn't be taken seriously.
Not necessary to rehash this. It was probably as much anti-DG as bad mouthing Thomas. Why even bring it up? Dwelling on a few sentiments three years ago is not worth the effort.
Not sure if you're thinking I brought it up. It was in the twitter thread above. A writer (Stapleton I think) said "from bust to best".
I don't know if Stapleton was referring to some fans thinking he was a bust. As Eric said, rookies struggle, even without injuries.
As far as other OTs looking better early on, pretty sure the others weren't playing LT.
Quote:
Lots of revisionist history about Thomas.
He in fact did really struggle in stretches his rookie year. He and the team were not forthcoming about the extent of his injury (and that’s the right thing to do). He was banged up in camp, and eventually has needed two surgeries.
Without the benefit of that knowledge, and just judging by the information fans had at the time, it was alarming.
Neither the optimists or pessimists had it right. He wasn’t just rookie learning the ropes and he wasn’t a bust. He was a big man playing on a bad ankle.
It's also not likely that his struggles were all due to the injury.
Rookies usually struggle. For some reason, that lesson never seems to get learned.
That all said, the reason why there was such a hot debate about Thomas is that fans got locked into their favorites on draft day, and when they didn't get their way, they assumed they were right and wanted the world to know it.
People also ignore the fact that there was no rookie camp, no minicamp, and no preseason games his rookie year because of COVID.
Doubt we see him then, hoping for Washington
As far as other OTs looking better early on, pretty sure the others weren't playing LT.
Not taking any position on the Thomas debate, whatever it is, but, as a matter of fact, both Mekhi Becton and Jedrick Wills played left tackle from the get go as rookies.
Tristan Wirfs was the only one of the top four tackles of that class to play right tackle with his NFL team.
I'm pretty sure they are not allowed to report that. Besides, they are kicked out at the beginning of practice. Always have been.
Quote:
based on his rookie year, with a bad ankle, bad team and bad coaching, shouldn't be taken seriously.
Not necessary to rehash this. It was probably as much anti-DG as bad mouthing Thomas. Why even bring it up? Dwelling on a few sentiments three years ago is not worth the effort.
Barkley, Jones, Lawrence, Love, McKinney, Big Cat ... all horrible according to the Official BBI I Hate David Gettleman Club.
@Dan_Salomone
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12m
Brian Daboll said TE Daniel Bellinger will not be out there today. OT Evan Neal will start working again.
@Dan_Salomone
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11m
Daboll has said multiple times the Lions are an “explosive team.” That’s where the focus starts this week.
@Dan_Salomone
·
12m
Brian Daboll said TE Daniel Bellinger will not be out there today. OT Evan Neal will start working again.
I don't think we're going to see Bellinger for Detroit or Dallas, unfortunately.
I wonder if Neal has a shot for the Dallas game.
@giantswfan
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13m
#Giants Daboll - lawrence on load management today
@giantswfan
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12m
#Giants Daboll - feliciano full today and belton limited
@Patricia_Traina
·
9m
Thibs (illnes) won’t practice today.
This might be a week we see more pass rushers than run stuffers, even though the LIons can run some. Overall we know if we pressure Goff he will turn it over.
Bellinger won’t practice today. Evan Neal will start working.
You want another discussion about Daniel Jones?
@DDuggan21
·
4m
DL Dexter Lawrence (rest) and OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux (illness) not spotted at practice.
TE Daniel Bellinger (eye) and OL Ben Bredeson (IR for two more games) were running outside with trainers while the team practiced inside due to wet fields.
Can you point me to the discussions where posters on this site concluded Thomas’s very obvious, and at points terrible play were in large part due to injury?
My recollection of the discussions was largely He was a high pick and rookies struggle so of course he’ll be fine.
Said in another way, if Thomas hadn’t have been hurt, and that was where he was starting from, he would have been in trouble.
because in the twitter feed above, someone wrote about Thomas "from bust to best". I thought it was stupid for anyone to ever use the word "bust" to describe him. But I guess that's the world we live in.
I think he did have the ankle but a big part of it was Columbo was trying to change his technique. Said it would benefit him in the long run. There was some stuff posted on this topic and then his old OL coach made some comments supporting AT.
Judge stepped in. Fired Columbo. Then the whole OL but really AT/SL both starting playing well. Year 2 it was a ankle issue and he struggled all year getting push but was solid in pass sets.
Now we see someone healthy and taking a big step. I think the scheme has done wonders as well as they are not putting a inordinate amount of pressure on the OL in PB sets..
or
His Blocking?
Judge stepped in. Fired Columbo....
Fully agree, and Detroit is a team Breida can hurt on the edge. That defense is terrible. They made a few plays against Green Bay (IIRC off a tipped ball and two awful decisions by Rodgers), then reverted to form against Chicago.
I'm unsure about this one. Detroit's running game is pretty good, and Goff/Swift will burn the Giants if the screen game is as open as it was against Houston.
or
His Blocking?
Exactly. Leave the rookie in and let him grow.
CHP, I took a look back and there was zero news about Thomas having ankle issues as a rookie.
The only start Thomas missed rookie year was when he was benched for the first half of a game for being late for a meeting during that practice week.
What you and others are recalling about the ankle is from his second year, 2021.
Link is to BBI thread from December 2020, rookie year, posing issue of Thomas vs Becton. Becton's injury issues are mentioned; nothing about an ankle for Thomas.
Overall, there are a number of positive comments about Thomas in the thread, some exceptions.
thread - ( New Window )
Quote:
His health?
or
His Blocking?
Exactly. Leave the rookie in and let him grow.
Seems to me, Ezeuda’s play has somewhat mirrored Lemieux’s rookie year. All I remember hearing was how much the running game improved with him in the lineup, but couldn’t pass block worth a dam. The difference is Ezeuda comes in with better footwork, but still hasn’t translated to pass pro. I’m hopeful they can both clean that up.
Thomas had significant ankle issues at Georgia.
Since he had surgery after his NYG rookie year, it is reasonable to presume it was an issue during the season, but it was not a publicized fact at the time.
As far as I can tell, and as far as BBI discussions of his rookie performance reflect.
DNP:
TE Daniel Bellinger (Eye)
DL Dexter Lawrence (Back/Resting Player)
OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux (Illness)
Limited:
S Dane Belton (Clavicle)
WR Kenny Golladay (Hamstring)
T Evan Neal (Knee)
WR Wan’Dale Robinson (Hamstring)
OLB Jihad Ward (Thumb)
Robinson with a hamstring?
LOL at Golladay.
Robinson with a hamstring?
LOL at Golladay.
Golladay: Maintenance day
Quote:
Played all 16 games as it was deemed manageable. He had his first surgery in 01/21. Then his second year it was ankle the ankle that I think the Giants also added "foot" to the equation. He then had another surgery this past offseason.////
Thomas had significant ankle issues at Georgia.
Since he had surgery after his NYG rookie year, it is reasonable to presume it was an issue during the season, but it was not a publicized fact at the time.
As far as I can tell, and as far as BBI discussions of his rookie performance reflect.
thanks, shyster, and re. reply to my earlier supposition: I guess I must have rolled my memory of 2021 back into the 2020 season, confounds me a bit.