season...
Does not matter. He wasn't cutting it with the Giants. It is a shame that it did not work out. But I still believe KC's more freewheeling and ad libbing offense works better for him. By that I means Mahomes ability to create out of nothing and chaos.
if Toney being in New York City was more of the problem then actually the Giants.
We all know he's an aspiring rapper, and obviously NYC has an abundance of opportunities for that type of career. I wonder if he was a little more distracted because of that? Now that he's in KC he probably has less distractions and more time to focus on football?
Who knows, something wasn't right and I trust Schoen and Daboll.
With two coaching staffs. The last one of which appeared to bend over backwards to make him happy. Now Toney magically appears as the nice guy when he decides he better straighten up after being traded. This way it makes the previous team look bad. Smart guy. We ll see.
and say Daboll and Schoen got this one wrong. Its not a black eye by any means, but something tells me Toney is gonna be a really good player in this league.
if Toney performs well and stays healthy, this will be a monumentally bad trade. Kelce's puffery is not going to convince me one way or the other, just pure output week after week will tell the story if we jumped the gun on trading him
and say Daboll and Schoen got this one wrong. Its not a black eye by any means, but something tells me Toney is gonna be a really good player in this league.
If he was never going to play here it just is what it is. Something happened and his time here was done. Everyone knows he has ability but for us that didn’t matter. Daboll setting an example could have a larger long term impact than any 1 player who can’t stay healthy can. Plenty of trades work out for both teams, I can see this being one of them.
Work ethic issues
Injuries not checking out upon treatment
Immaturity
Dishonesty
Distracting practice and pre-game antics
And so on. For whatever reason the relationship soured with the Giants. He didn’t want to be here and the Giants were able to work to get him somewhere he could flourish and get an investment return for a player they didn’t draft.
He didn't want to be here: a team that was winning games and desperately needed a receiver.
I think this sums it up. We can do all the hand-wringing we want, but it ignores the fact that he didn't produce when he was here and there's a good chance he never wanted to be here. Let it go. It's in the past now.
I'll trust Shoen's and Daboll's judgement on this one. Good for Joka if he can get his career back on track. But it wasn't gonna' happen here. Irreconcilable differences, move on.
Giants bent over backwards for Toney. That's just a fact. They were extremely patient with him. There were more than a few whispers that the guy refused to practice even when the team thought he was healthy enough to do so.
The Giants didn't keep him from playing. Toney did. Either because of a ridiculous number of injuries over the span of 18 months or because he didn't want to.
If this was Schoen and Daboll, I think folks would be more apt to take this discussion seriously.
I'm glad we got something for him, and i'm glad he found a situation thats right for him.
I would agree, but the dude basically has his entire back tattooed with NY, etc. Why would you do that if you didn’t want to play in NY? Makes no sense.
to the story since it appears he was traded healthy.
I agree with the poster that implied maybe the NYC area was NOT a good environment for him( maybe off field issues?) .
All the stuff from the ‘wrong shoes’, the lack of interest in the playbook, and the injuries, were an omen this guy was just not interested in the Giants.
Elway didn’t want the Colts.
Eli didn’t want the Chargers.
He may turn out great, but
Sometimes everyone wins with a ‘ move on’.
Schoen will turn one of those draft picks into a contributor , if not both.
I'm glad we got something for him, and i'm glad he found a situation thats right for him.
I would agree, but the dude basically has his entire back tattooed with NY, etc. Why would you do that if you didn’t want to play in NY? Makes no sense.
I agree I do not think it was he did not want to be here per se, I think it was more in line with him being immature and character issues. Obviously, he knows now that he is probably on his last chance to make good, so this is the honeymoon period where he tries to correct his behavior that led to the downfall in NY. The problem is that more often than not, the Honeymoon period fades and the person goes back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place. We will see what happens with Kadarius Toney.
Jealous ex. It’s very likely he’s a good soldier there and a worker. It’s not unfathomable. Guys dog it if they want out. We are allowed to have success and so is he. It’s okay and we all need to accept that. Your life will be a lot easier instead of watching KC and rooting for this kid to implode.
anyone with a smidge of talent, especially speed and elusiveness like him, will thrive in KC's offense. We had to sacrifice his talent because any hint of negative culture had to be removed to help turn this team around.
However, it's going to hurt watching him light it up in the postseason, which i bet he will. But consider it a win win as stated above.
In comment 15910692 Fat Wally said:
[quote] if Toney being in New York City was more of the problem then actually the Giants.
We all know he's an aspiring rapper, and obviously NYC has an abundance of opportunities for that type of career. I wonder if he was a little more distracted because of that? Now that he's in KC he probably has less distractions and more time to focus on football?
Aspiring rapper!! Ha ha ha . What does that even mean? I'm an aspiring Nuclear Scientist. But if I was on the roster of an NFL Football team I'd give up those aspirations in a heart beat.
And by the way how do you identify the talents of an aspiring wrapper? By the paper it's made out of perhaps? The guy didn't posses a brain bottom line.
The Giants didn't let Toney out of the building. He let himself out. He didn't want to be here. I'm still not sure why, but he didn't. Schoen and Daboll did everything they could to make it work, but at some point they smartly concluded that it was in everyone's best interest to move on. They actually got a lot more for him than I and most people here thought they would.
still the honeymoon period for Toney in KC. Maybe the sudden change of scenery will jar something loose but a tiger doesn’t usually change his stripes…
I spent some time last week with a major booster of the UF football program and did not hesitate to ask him his opinion on Toney. Rather unsurprisingly, he told me that in college KT wasn’t a troublemaker, generally well-behaved, but had a reputation of being disconnected and noted his off-the-field interests sometimes taking precedence over football. Toney had to be closely managed at UF and he wasn’t at all surprised it didn’t work out for him in New York as a pro.
Take it for what it’s worth. I’m sure the Giants college-heavy coaching staff under Judge felt they could handle Toney, and this group, who inherited him, clearly had less patience.
There are a bunch of teams I like over there, and KC, Bills, Bengals were 3 of them. Toney's sideshow going to KC makes it hard for me to pull for them anymore knowing how desperate the Giants are at WR and the shit Toney just pulled with Giants. Think I'll be going for Bills, Cincy and maybe Miami in AFC now even though I'm not a Tua fan at all.
If Toney did that with Judge/Garrett..I could actually understand it..the Giants were a house on fire/sinking ship. To do that with new coaching staff that are absolutely crushing it by every metric...I'm at a loss, it comes off as extraordinarily selfish and I know it's a business but the Giants did their business side of the arrangement and he got paid...and he pulled this nonsense in response. Fuck him.
I think it’s obvious Toney is going to be very, very good
DaBoll’s comments about Toney echo his comments about Golladay.
“He is doing everything we ask.”
That may be true, but is he making any extra effort beyond what the coaches are asking him to do? Even if Toney goes on to be a star, he was useless to the Giants.
The situation with Golladay appears to be different than with Toney, but the production is the same.
it wasn't going to work here and I have a hard time believing he'll work out in KC (seeing that the Giants bent over backwards to make it work with Toney, and he still soured). Connecting the dots tells me he's a soft player that will eventually be tweaked and he'll pull himself off the field again. A leopard can't change it's spots.
Aspiring rapper!! Ha ha ha . What does that even mean? I'm an aspiring Nuclear Scientist. But if I was on the roster of an NFL Football team I'd give up those aspirations in a heart beat.
And by the way how do you identify the talents of an aspiring wrapper? By the paper it's made out of perhaps? The guy didn't posses a brain bottom line.
Aspiring rapper!! Ha ha ha . What does that even mean? I'm an aspiring Nuclear Scientist. But if I was on the roster of an NFL Football team I'd give up those aspirations in a heart beat.
And by the way how do you identify the talents of an aspiring wrapper? By the paper it's made out of perhaps? The guy didn't posses a brain bottom line.
with us, as fans, evaluating the situation with Toney is we have one side of a story.
And so many fans on here simply shrug and say "he was never going to play here"
what's done is done, but how is that a: known and b: ok?
it's the Giants job to get the players to play. it sets a terrible precedent.
I'm not apoplectic about it or anything since like I said what's done is done, but it does absolutely represent a failure for the Giants.
the best you can say is that a: it was not this regime who drafted him and b: they salvaged a 3rd and a 6th round pick for him but in no way should this be viewed as a positive.
the Giants squandered a 1st round pick, who has talent, and may shine elsewhere. that's the story and it's not being negative to say so, it's being truthful (from what information is available to us as fans)
and say Daboll and Schoen got this one wrong. Its not a black eye by any means, but something tells me Toney is gonna be a really good player in this league.
Your point is off base. They didn't get anything wrong here, Toney was NEVER going to be a good player with the Giants. You are assuming this wake up call of trade didn't have anything to do with his "supposed" ability, availability and football smarts.
and say Daboll and Schoen got this one wrong. Its not a black eye by any means, but something tells me Toney is gonna be a really good player in this league.
A couple of things...
1.This team has a huge issue with depth and talent at WR. If you think that the Giants truly did not want this to work, then you are just fooling yourself. They did not wake up one day and say "lets get rid of him". You will never know what happened behind closed doors. Just know that with this depleted roster, it had to be bad if we were willing to trade him away.
2.If he ends up doing well for KC, it does not mean we should have kept him. A transmission for a Mustang will not work on a Ferrari.
In his first game with KC, he did not do much. That is to be expected and is not a knock on him. He just got there. We will have to wait a year to see what happens.
I'm open to hearing some facts from Toney's side that would justify his disgruntled attitude towards the Giants, but you never provide any. You're always quick to defend him or act exasperated when others attack his character. You were even surprised that the Giants traded him. Do you have anything to back it up?
I have no idea why he wasn't committed to playing here
The only reason he lasted as long as he did was because the talent was obvious. It's not a surprise that he's turning on elsewhere, but it was never gonna happen here. Only he knows why.
and say Daboll and Schoen got this one wrong. Its not a black eye by any means, but something tells me Toney is gonna be a really good player in this league.
Well he simply wouldn't play here. Not sure how moving him is getting it wrong when the guy won't fucking practice or play. Good riddance. Smart, tough and dependable - he was 0-3. Adi-fucking-os.
And the Giants were doing MRIs and other tests and couldn’t find anything wrong with him according to Russ Salzburg. Listen starting at 16:00 Link - ( New Window )
I'm open to hearing some facts from Toney's side that would justify his disgruntled attitude towards the Giants, but you never provide any. You're always quick to defend him or act exasperated when others attack his character. You were even surprised that the Giants traded him. Do you have anything to back it up?
I was surprised giants traded anyone away at the deadline.
And yes I defended him not being here voluntary workouts because I know the definition of the word voluntary.
But we’ve been through that.
People still putting the blame on him making music is *chefs kiss* though.
We can make up all the feel good stories in the world and cite whatever rumors we want to believe, but this was a failure.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
I pay little attention to teams other than the Giants
We can make up all the feel good stories in the world and cite whatever rumors we want to believe, but this was a failure.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....yeah, the people that have turned around a disaster of a franchise in short order are "dysfunctional" because they couldn't get through to this lazyass clown
I believe he also had another 30+ yards rushing. But what I really found amusing was that apparently on his touchdown, next GEN stats have him as the most wide-open touchdown reception of the week. (if not the season). I’m completely going off of memory, but apparently there was no one within 20 yards of him in any direction.
I believe he also had another 30+ yards rushing. But what I really found amusing was that apparently on his touchdown, next GEN stats have him as the most wide-open touchdown reception of the week. (if not the season). I’m completely going off of memory, but apparently there was no one within 20 yards of him in any direction.
Easiest touchdown of the year for anybody. All he had to do was not drop it and then run 10 yards in under 30 seconds. Hahah.
And the Giants were doing MRIs and other tests and couldn’t find anything wrong with him according to Russ Salzburg. Listen starting at 16:00 Link - ( New Window )
I believe he also had another 30+ yards rushing. But what I really found amusing was that apparently on his touchdown, next GEN stats have him as the most wide-open touchdown reception of the week. (if not the season). I’m completely going off of memory, but apparently there was no one within 20 yards of him in any direction.
Easiest touchdown of the year for anybody. All he had to do was not drop it and then run 10 yards in under 30 seconds. Hahah.
Golladay would have dropped it and hurt his hammy.
Golladay at least actually suits up for games here
I believe he also had another 30+ yards rushing. But what I really found amusing was that apparently on his touchdown, next GEN stats have him as the most wide-open touchdown reception of the week. (if not the season). I’m completely going off of memory, but apparently there was no one within 20 yards of him in any direction.
Correct. KT has 33 yards rushing on two carries. The TD was a 6-yard pass from Mahomes out to the flat after Mahomes couldn't find anyone in the endzone after looking for about a half hour. And then KT literally hopped into the endzone on one foot.
It seems like people out there are gushing over his performance
Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
....
I agree I do not think it was he did not want to be here per se, I think it was more in line with him being immature and character issues. Obviously, he knows now that he is probably on his last chance to make good, so this is the honeymoon period where he tries to correct his behavior that led to the downfall in NY. The problem is that more often than not, the Honeymoon period fades and the person goes back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place. We will see what happens with Kadarius Toney.
How do you square this with your earlier post that this will be viewed as a monumentally bad trade? smh
...it must be really boring to be a wide receiver and play for Daboll and the Giants. They run with Barkley / run the ball more than any other team. Jones does a lot of running himself. When they do rarely pass Barkley is the leading receiver on this team too.
If you are Golliday or Toney it is like why bother? I mean he had 2 targets one was a bad throw the other a drop and he sat on a bench and has been sitting for David Sills?
RE: RE: He wasn't interested in getting on the field
Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Calls for maturity on a football fan message board strike me as bizarre. We're not analyzing the works of Shakespeare here folks!
You always have to look at "he should be more mature"
comments on BBI with a Dodge Ram full of salt. Some of the same people make asses of themselves in the game threads on a weekly basis yet want to talk maturity from Monday to Saturday.
And the Giants were doing MRIs and other tests and couldn’t find anything wrong with him according to Russ Salzburg. Listen starting at 16:00 Link - ( New Window )
this is an important listen -- these two are at the facility on a regular basis
He missed a lot of time in his rookie season, under a different FO
the one that drafted him, but he did play some. I've said it before, but aside from being a much, much better coaching staff then '21 and a much, much better FO, he went on strike. He went on strike against the '22 Giants, no other way to put it. Again, my only speculation/explanation is that drafting Wan'Dale ruffled his immature ego. It should have been viewed, as all did, as necessary shoring up of a very weak roster position. But he wouldn't, or couldn't.
Why this organization chose to draft this "special situation" when we had a traditional old, very old fart as an OC at the time defines dysfunctional organization.
It is possible, that Toney tuned Giants out after initial experience, and would not consider letting management back in. Not a mature reaction, but hey this is the NFL with no shortage of prima donnas.
Say nice things about one of your teammates when the press asks about him.
Remember all the nice things Giants players said about Webb and later Jones in his first few seasons?
all those things were true though. Not sure this supports your argument. There are actual examples of this behavior that you completely glossed over JUST to take a stealth shot at DJ. Shame.
but at the end of the day, if he becomes a high-end weapon for KC and we let him walk out the door for a comp pick then its a black mark against the coaching staff and the front office. There's no way around that. Andy Reid is at the top of the profession and that's where we want to be.
All that being said, one "black mark" isn't really a big deal considering how everything else is going. No coach or front office is going to be perfect and you just hope to hit more than you miss.
I have complete confidence in Daboll and Schoen even if this Toney situation ends up being a bad look.
I believe he also had another 30+ yards rushing. But what I really found amusing was that apparently on his touchdown, next GEN stats have him as the most wide-open touchdown reception of the week. (if not the season). I’m completely going off of memory, but apparently there was no one within 20 yards of him in any direction.
Easiest touchdown of the year for anybody. All he had to do was not drop it and then run 10 yards in under 30 seconds. Hahah.
Yes it was a joke. He almost went out of bounds, and then hopped on one leg 5 yds into the endzone. No one was close enough to even get him hopping on one leg.
He was a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma,
strange situation. Lots of stuff reported but little from the staff or players.
One aspect I find interesting is Kafka being on staff who has deep ties to Reid and KC. Hard for me not to think there was some communication and I doubt MK would not give some type of heads up if Toney was just a waste.
but at the end of the day, if he becomes a high-end weapon for KC and we let him walk out the door for a comp pick then its a black mark against the coaching staff and the front office.
It's a black mark against Toney, not the organization
Why this organization chose to draft this "special situation" when we had a traditional old, very old fart as an OC at the time defines dysfunctional organization.
It is possible, that Toney tuned Giants out after initial experience, and would not consider letting management back in. Not a mature reaction, but hey this is the NFL with no shortage of prima donnas.
It's been 2 OCs later . What exactly were you expecting? Some of these wins -- against some bottom of the barrel teams no less -- remind me a lot of the Raiders win from last seasoni.e. conservative and boring with Jones not throwing over 200 yards and no TDs.
Why this organization chose to draft this "special situation" when we had a traditional old, very old fart as an OC at the time defines dysfunctional organization.
It is possible, that Toney tuned Giants out after initial experience, and would not consider letting management back in. Not a mature reaction, but hey this is the NFL with no shortage of prima donnas.
It's been 2 OCs later . What exactly were you expecting? Some of these wins -- against some bottom of the barrel teams no less -- remind me a lot of the Raiders win from last seasoni.e. conservative and boring with Jones not throwing over 200 yards and no TDs.
This is a thread on Toney. Keep your Jones agenda on its own thread.
and say Daboll and Schoen got this one wrong. Its not a black eye by any means, but something tells me Toney is gonna be a really good player in this league.
No matter what Toney does in KC, it still doesn't mean that JS/BD got this one wrong.
Maybe the trade was a wake up call for Toney (not that he'd ever admit it), and if that's the case, he never would have come close to his potential without that wake up call.
I would compare it to Cris Carter with the Eagles (though the specific circumstances are very different when substance abuse is involved). Carter went on to have a HOF career with the Vikings, and it would stand to reason that the Eagles made a mistake by giving up on him. But he never would have had that HOF career if the Eagles hadn't given up on him.
Toney was a waste of space with the Giants, and nothing that he does with the Chiefs will retroactively make him less of a waste for his time with the Giants.
RE: RE: RE: You need a time machine to go back in time
Why this organization chose to draft this "special situation" when we had a traditional old, very old fart as an OC at the time defines dysfunctional organization.
It is possible, that Toney tuned Giants out after initial experience, and would not consider letting management back in. Not a mature reaction, but hey this is the NFL with no shortage of prima donnas.
It's been 2 OCs later . What exactly were you expecting? Some of these wins -- against some bottom of the barrel teams no less -- remind me a lot of the Raiders win from last seasoni.e. conservative and boring with Jones not throwing over 200 yards and no TDs.
This is a thread on Toney. Keep your Jones agenda on its own thread.
I am just pointing out the inconsistencies of the post. Garrett is to blame for Toney checking out? He had his best gmae as a Giant under Garrett. That was 2 OCs ago. This team didn't magically transform into the greatest show on turf when they fired Garrett is my point. But I appreciate the vigalante BBI justice.
and say Daboll and Schoen got this one wrong. Its not a black eye by any means, but something tells me Toney is gonna be a really good player in this league.
No matter what Toney does in KC, it still doesn't mean that JS/BD got this one wrong.
Maybe the trade was a wake up call for Toney (not that he'd ever admit it), and if that's the case, he never would have come close to his potential without that wake up call.
I would compare it to Cris Carter with the Eagles (though the specific circumstances are very different when substance abuse is involved). Carter went on to have a HOF career with the Vikings, and it would stand to reason that the Eagles made a mistake by giving up on him. But he never would have had that HOF career if the Eagles hadn't given up on him.
Toney was a waste of space with the Giants, and nothing that he does with the Chiefs will retroactively make him less of a waste for his time with the Giants.
And you guys can be completely right and I am 100% off. But there is two sides to every story and we basically know the HC and GM side. Something was off from the get go with Toney here. I am not doubting that. I just hate seeing talented players go to waste on a team that needs them.
RE: RE: RE: RE: You need a time machine to go back in time
I am just pointing out the inconsistencies of the post. Garrett is to blame for Toney checking out? He had his best gmae as a Giant under Garrett. That was 2 OCs ago. This team didn't magically transform into the greatest show on turf when they fired Garrett is my point. But I appreciate the vigalante BBI justice.
You coming here to defend Jason Garrett just proves you are Debaser. Way to out yourself.
I am just pointing out the inconsistencies of the post. Garrett is to blame for Toney checking out? He had his best gmae as a Giant under Garrett. That was 2 OCs ago. This team didn't magically transform into the greatest show on turf when they fired Garrett is my point. But I appreciate the vigalante BBI justice.
You coming here to defend Jason Garrett just proves you are Debaser. Way to out yourself.
I'm open to hearing some facts from Toney's side that would justify his disgruntled attitude towards the Giants, but you never provide any. You're always quick to defend him or act exasperated when others attack his character. You were even surprised that the Giants traded him. Do you have anything to back it up?
Do you have anything to back up the claims that he was faking injury, didn’t want to play and that he lacks intelligence? I can’t speak for eyebrow, but for me, all I’ve ever said is that we don’t know anything. We can assume and we can speculate, but we can’t present any of that as fact and without facts, without evidence, the vitriol and venom directed at this kid is unwarranted and really shows a feeling of entitlement that is far beyond what is deserved. The same shit happened with McKinney and all the assumptions about his character. I simply wish people would stop presenting what they THINK as indisputable fact. That’s all. But by all means, let’s keep dogging the kid.
Also: this shit where people who don’t like hip hop are making fun of Toney’s music is pretty ugly. You can’t judge talent when you don’t even like the genre. Is he the next Kendrick Lamar or Eric Jamaal? Nah. But his music isn’t bad. If he had better production I could see him being successful. But there was nothing to suggest that his hamstring was a front so he could work on his music. He was at the facility the whole time. Getting treatment, working out, etc.
We can make up all the feel good stories in the world and cite whatever rumors we want to believe, but this was a failure.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
The guy has played 2 games since being traded. The first game he had 2 catches for 12 yards. How is this a failure right now? It’s literally comical to see some of these comments. When he puts together a string of games where he actually plays and produces then you can start making these comments. Until then, these are just plain stupid.
RE: He was a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma,
but who cares? He's not Russian back to the Giants anytime soon...
You say that, while overlooking those of us who thought he was a headcase when he was drafted, saw trouble brewing from his first practice and have been saying the guy is a problem ever since. For some of us, it was easy to see what he was from the get go.
I trust Kelce still has enough functioning brain cells....
I'm open to hearing some facts from Toney's side that would justify his disgruntled attitude towards the Giants, but you never provide any. You're always quick to defend him or act exasperated when others attack his character. You were even surprised that the Giants traded him. Do you have anything to back it up?
Do you have anything to back up the claims that he was faking injury, didn’t want to play and that he lacks intelligence? I can’t speak for eyebrow, but for me, all I’ve ever said is that we don’t know anything. We can assume and we can speculate, but we can’t present any of that as fact and without facts, without evidence, the vitriol and venom directed at this kid is unwarranted and really shows a feeling of entitlement that is far beyond what is deserved. The same shit happened with McKinney and all the assumptions about his character. I simply wish people would stop presenting what they THINK as indisputable fact. That’s all. But by all means, let’s keep dogging the kid.
Also: this shit where people who don’t like hip hop are making fun of Toney’s music is pretty ugly. You can’t judge talent when you don’t even like the genre. Is he the next Kendrick Lamar or Eric Jamaal? Nah. But his music isn’t bad. If he had better production I could see him being successful. But there was nothing to suggest that his hamstring was a front so he could work on his music. He was at the facility the whole time. Getting treatment, working out, etc.
Eyebrow is actually the person you are responding to.
We can make up all the feel good stories in the world and cite whatever rumors we want to believe, but this was a failure.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
The guy has played 2 games since being traded. The first game he had 2 catches for 12 yards. How is this a failure right now? It’s literally comical to see some of these comments. When he puts together a string of games where he actually plays and produces then you can start making these comments. Until then, these are just plain stupid.
And as silly as the term 'draft capital' is, the trade was literally a gain rather than a loss. Once you pick a player, that draft capital is gone. The trade ended up giving the Giants more future picks than they had before, hence a gain of draft capital.
Probably the only thing that matters. Toney wasn't able - or willing - to get on the field. Not in practice, not in games.
All the other thoughts around him are secondary to that.
Someone please explain what the Giants staff could have done to change that? I think they did everything they could short of bribing him or physically dragging his ass out there.
We can make up all the feel good stories in the world and cite whatever rumors we want to believe, but this was a failure.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
The guy has played 2 games since being traded. The first game he had 2 catches for 12 yards. How is this a failure right now? It’s literally comical to see some of these comments. When he puts together a string of games where he actually plays and produces then you can start making these comments. Until then, these are just plain stupid.
I mean, he didn't really play many reps that first game and he was not all the way there with the playbook yet (and may still not be). But he obviously got more snaps last week and the skills are there. I think this is a situation where the Chiefs are going to be really happy with this trade, particularly in the short run, and the Giants are happy to get a malcontent out of their building. Win-win. I'll take the mediocre pick return for a guy that really didn't want to be here.
And I never underestimate the ability of a knucklehead to be a knucklehead again in the future, so at some point, that's the Chiefs' problem. Onward!
and this is one of the weirdest situation I can remember. I don’t care if Toney succeeds or fails, but would love to know the behind the scenes story to all this. Even though I know you won’t because you protect your sources, come on JonC give us something. I’m just curious as hell!
RE: Not much you can do if he didn't want to play here
"Amazing what happens when Toney is with a coaching staff that knows how to use him." cbs sports - ( New Window )
Another brilliant take from that link for Philly:
Quote:
The run defense continues to get carved up
And then uses Washington’s 49 carries for 152 yards as the proof of being ‘carved up’. That’s 3.1 ypc, in case you wanted to know cbs’ standards are for poor run defense.
I was only glancing at KC and the Giants when I noticed the Philly headline. I don’t even want to look at the rest of their takes.
I could understand how he would be unhappy last year
But, I can't think of a legitimate reason for him to have wanted out this year. To a man, this team seems to love Daboll and the entire coaching staff. On top of that, the team was winning and in desperate need of WR help. And, on top of that, NYC is certainly an area he could promote himself and his music if he succeeds. The stage was set for him. How was he not begging to be on the field?
he is a young EXTREMELY immature emotional kid. And like many kids, he seems to spend a ton of time on social media. Go back to last year when, from the very beginning of his tenure with the Giants, he was getting involved in back and forths with Giants fans who were giving him crap on Instagram, Twitter, whatever. Im thinking that right there, he decided that NY was not a place where he wanted to play. So he forced his way out. And, of course, as soon as he screws something up in KC, he will hear the same things there -they have social media too -so we will see how it goes. Again, just my theory, but it makes as much sense as anything.
Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Calls for maturity on a football fan message board strike me as bizarre. We're not analyzing the works of Shakespeare here folks!
Do you watch the NFL? Do you see some of the catches being made? Not every throw has to be perfect. Golladay has been bad. In the NFL you re paid to catch the ball when they throw it to you. If you do it well, they might throw it to you again, that’s how it works
Probably the only thing that matters. Toney wasn't able - or willing - to get on the field. Not in practice, not in games.
All the other thoughts around him are secondary to that.
Someone please explain what the Giants staff could have done to change that? I think they did everything they could short of bribing him or physically dragging his ass out there.
Bingo. Two different front offices and two different head coaches came to the same conclusion about Toney. He didn’t want to practice at times or play. Dan Duggan tweeted sometime during the offseason that Joe Judge and the front office thought Toney could’ve played the final 2 games of the season and Toney just said no.
As I said when the trade was announced, don’t be surprised if Toney is magically 100% healthy or that Andy Reid knows how to use him.
....
I agree I do not think it was he did not want to be here per se, I think it was more in line with him being immature and character issues. Obviously, he knows now that he is probably on his last chance to make good, so this is the honeymoon period where he tries to correct his behavior that led to the downfall in NY. The problem is that more often than not, the Honeymoon period fades and the person goes back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place. We will see what happens with Kadarius Toney.
How do you square this with your earlier post that this will be viewed as a monumentally bad trade? smh
The guy just helped them win a game with a TD. It's already a bad trade...at least until we see what Schoen does with the pics.
if he traded a player that went on to produce for his next team? I think he’d be vilified for trading Toney under similar circumstances. And no, just because we’re 7-2 doesn’t mean that we can’t be critical of any of Schoen’s decisions because we have a winning record.
RE: RE: RE: He wasn't interested in getting on the field
Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Calls for maturity on a football fan message board strike me as bizarre. We're not analyzing the works of Shakespeare here folks!
You can’t tell the difference between the way Eli and Kadarius Toney approach the game, or are you saying the difference doesn’t matter? Your post is bizarre all due respect.
if he traded a player that went on to produce for his next team? I think he’d be vilified for trading Toney under similar circumstances. And no, just because we’re 7-2 doesn’t mean that we can’t be critical of any of Schoen’s decisions because we have a winning record.
Do you mind letting us know your name and role in the NYG organization?
Your posts, and not just this one, make this fairly obvious.
RE: RE: RE: RE: He wasn't interested in getting on the field
Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Calls for maturity on a football fan message board strike me as bizarre. We're not analyzing the works of Shakespeare here folks!
You can’t tell the difference between the way Eli and Kadarius Toney approach the game, or are you saying the difference doesn’t matter? Your post is bizarre all due respect.
You’re misunderstanding my comment. Not about player maturity/commitment. But in reference to LGG bemoaning posters behaving as manchildren. We’re grown men posting on a football board - there’s no need for us to pretend to be diplomatic about disliking a guy who quit on the team.
Dmage control team with that quote. You know why he was traded. The whole league does. You can pump up your new team mate without being a liar and a shill
RE: RE: Would Gettleman be afforded the same leniency
if he traded a player that went on to produce for his next team? I think he’d be vilified for trading Toney under similar circumstances. And no, just because we’re 7-2 doesn’t mean that we can’t be critical of any of Schoen’s decisions because we have a winning record.
Do you mind letting us know your name and role in the NYG organization?
Your posts, and not just this one, make this fairly obvious.
I’m flattered. Being critical of anything relating to the new regime will bring out all sorts of accusations.
RE: RE: Would Gettleman be afforded the same leniency
if he traded a player that went on to produce for his next team? I think he’d be vilified for trading Toney under similar circumstances. And no, just because we’re 7-2 doesn’t mean that we can’t be critical of any of Schoen’s decisions because we have a winning record.
Do you mind letting us know your name and role in the NYG organization?
Your posts, and not just this one, make this fairly obvious.
Whether he will capitalize on his talent is still an open question.
None of us really knows what happens behind the scenes. Maybe he was not salvagable here. Maybe not. Maybe he was reachable with the right buttons pushed. Maybe not. Daboll is proving to be an excellent coach, but he's not perfect. Nobody is.
It would've been really good for the Giants if we were able to get Toney on the field and producing. It didn't happen. I'm sure a lot of the fault is Toneys. I'm sure it was a challenge for the coaching staff.
I trust our coaches and FO a lot. So I'm not going to be extremely critical of them. But big picture, it was a disappointing situation because we need the talent that he has. And it was never actualized here.
if he traded a player that went on to produce for his next team? I think he’d be vilified for trading Toney under similar circumstances. And no, just because we’re 7-2 doesn’t mean that we can’t be critical of any of Schoen’s decisions because we have a winning record.
Do you mind letting us know your name and role in the NYG organization?
Your posts, and not just this one, make this fairly obvious.
I’m flattered. Being critical of anything relating to the new regime will bring out all sorts of accusations.
It’s okay to be critical of any of the NYG regimes if supportable.
Does not matter. He wasn't cutting it with the Giants. It is a shame that it did not work out. But I still believe KC's more freewheeling and ad libbing offense works better for him. By that I means Mahomes ability to create out of nothing and chaos.
We all know he's an aspiring rapper, and obviously NYC has an abundance of opportunities for that type of career. I wonder if he was a little more distracted because of that? Now that he's in KC he probably has less distractions and more time to focus on football?
Who knows, something wasn't right and I trust Schoen and Daboll.
If he was never going to play here it just is what it is. Something happened and his time here was done. Everyone knows he has ability but for us that didn’t matter. Daboll setting an example could have a larger long term impact than any 1 player who can’t stay healthy can. Plenty of trades work out for both teams, I can see this being one of them.
Work ethic issues
Injuries not checking out upon treatment
Immaturity
Dishonesty
Distracting practice and pre-game antics
And so on. For whatever reason the relationship soured with the Giants. He didn’t want to be here and the Giants were able to work to get him somewhere he could flourish and get an investment return for a player they didn’t draft.
Consider it a win-win. It didn’t work out here.
Eff that. I wish him bad.
it all started with his shoes not being right
I'm glad we got something for him, and i'm glad he found a situation thats right for him.
I think this sums it up. We can do all the hand-wringing we want, but it ignores the fact that he didn't produce when he was here and there's a good chance he never wanted to be here. Let it go. It's in the past now.
The Giants didn't keep him from playing. Toney did. Either because of a ridiculous number of injuries over the span of 18 months or because he didn't want to.
If this was Schoen and Daboll, I think folks would be more apt to take this discussion seriously.
it all started with his shoes not being right
I'm glad we got something for him, and i'm glad he found a situation thats right for him.
I would agree, but the dude basically has his entire back tattooed with NY, etc. Why would you do that if you didn’t want to play in NY? Makes no sense.
I agree with the poster that implied maybe the NYC area was NOT a good environment for him( maybe off field issues?) .
All the stuff from the ‘wrong shoes’, the lack of interest in the playbook, and the injuries, were an omen this guy was just not interested in the Giants.
Elway didn’t want the Colts.
Eli didn’t want the Chargers.
He may turn out great, but
Sometimes everyone wins with a ‘ move on’.
Schoen will turn one of those draft picks into a contributor , if not both.
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that Toney didnt want to be here.
it all started with his shoes not being right
I'm glad we got something for him, and i'm glad he found a situation thats right for him.
I would agree, but the dude basically has his entire back tattooed with NY, etc. Why would you do that if you didn’t want to play in NY? Makes no sense.
I agree I do not think it was he did not want to be here per se, I think it was more in line with him being immature and character issues. Obviously, he knows now that he is probably on his last chance to make good, so this is the honeymoon period where he tries to correct his behavior that led to the downfall in NY. The problem is that more often than not, the Honeymoon period fades and the person goes back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place. We will see what happens with Kadarius Toney.
Time will tell what KC actually got - he had a few good moments that were exciting when he was a Giant too
I also am developing faith in the Shoen/Daboll regime
Words mean nothing.
Any person with half a brain is going to bad mouth a guy on their team
Pisses me off that the Chiefs can talk and make us look like idiots and Toney like a victim through the media.
There is no denying the guy is super talented but I don’t recall having a player come through here as mercurial as him.
Jealous ex. It’s very likely he’s a good soldier there and a worker. It’s not unfathomable. Guys dog it if they want out. We are allowed to have success and so is he. It’s okay and we all need to accept that. Your life will be a lot easier instead of watching KC and rooting for this kid to implode.
However, it's going to hurt watching him light it up in the postseason, which i bet he will. But consider it a win win as stated above.
[quote] if Toney being in New York City was more of the problem then actually the Giants.
We all know he's an aspiring rapper, and obviously NYC has an abundance of opportunities for that type of career. I wonder if he was a little more distracted because of that? Now that he's in KC he probably has less distractions and more time to focus on football?
Aspiring rapper!! Ha ha ha . What does that even mean? I'm an aspiring Nuclear Scientist. But if I was on the roster of an NFL Football team I'd give up those aspirations in a heart beat.
And by the way how do you identify the talents of an aspiring wrapper? By the paper it's made out of perhaps? The guy didn't posses a brain bottom line.
Best of luck to Toney in KC, it wasn't working out here.
The Giants didn't let Toney out of the building. He let himself out. He didn't want to be here. I'm still not sure why, but he didn't. Schoen and Daboll did everything they could to make it work, but at some point they smartly concluded that it was in everyone's best interest to move on. They actually got a lot more for him than I and most people here thought they would.
Eff that. I wish him bad.
Yup....screw him....crash and burn MF'er!
I spent some time last week with a major booster of the UF football program and did not hesitate to ask him his opinion on Toney. Rather unsurprisingly, he told me that in college KT wasn’t a troublemaker, generally well-behaved, but had a reputation of being disconnected and noted his off-the-field interests sometimes taking precedence over football. Toney had to be closely managed at UF and he wasn’t at all surprised it didn’t work out for him in New York as a pro.
Take it for what it’s worth. I’m sure the Giants college-heavy coaching staff under Judge felt they could handle Toney, and this group, who inherited him, clearly had less patience.
If Toney did that with Judge/Garrett..I could actually understand it..the Giants were a house on fire/sinking ship. To do that with new coaching staff that are absolutely crushing it by every metric...I'm at a loss, it comes off as extraordinarily selfish and I know it's a business but the Giants did their business side of the arrangement and he got paid...and he pulled this nonsense in response. Fuck him.
The number of people who get worked up about, or even take seriously, these innocuous platitudes is weird.
“He is doing everything we ask.”
That may be true, but is he making any extra effort beyond what the coaches are asking him to do? Even if Toney goes on to be a star, he was useless to the Giants.
The situation with Golladay appears to be different than with Toney, but the production is the same.
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“I wish him well” wrt Toney.
Eff that. I wish him bad.
Yup....screw him....crash and burn MF'er!
Agree, he was a weird dude from jump, what was up with always wearing that friggin hood all time? Good riddance
And by the way how do you identify the talents of an aspiring wrapper? By the paper it's made out of perhaps? The guy didn't posses a brain bottom line.
And by the way how do you identify the talents of an aspiring wrapper? By the paper it's made out of perhaps? The guy didn't posses a brain bottom line.
This post was so nice you had to post it twice?
You expect fans to be happy about all of this? Another wasted first round pick at a need position?
LOL
LMAO
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Lol.
You expect fans to be happy about all of this? Another wasted first round pick at a need position?
LOL
LMAO
ROFL
Remember all the nice things Giants players said about Webb and later Jones in his first few seasons?
And so many fans on here simply shrug and say "he was never going to play here"
what's done is done, but how is that a: known and b: ok?
it's the Giants job to get the players to play. it sets a terrible precedent.
I'm not apoplectic about it or anything since like I said what's done is done, but it does absolutely represent a failure for the Giants.
the best you can say is that a: it was not this regime who drafted him and b: they salvaged a 3rd and a 6th round pick for him but in no way should this be viewed as a positive.
the Giants squandered a 1st round pick, who has talent, and may shine elsewhere. that's the story and it's not being negative to say so, it's being truthful (from what information is available to us as fans)
Your point is off base. They didn't get anything wrong here, Toney was NEVER going to be a good player with the Giants. You are assuming this wake up call of trade didn't have anything to do with his "supposed" ability, availability and football smarts.
A couple of things...
1.This team has a huge issue with depth and talent at WR. If you think that the Giants truly did not want this to work, then you are just fooling yourself. They did not wake up one day and say "lets get rid of him". You will never know what happened behind closed doors. Just know that with this depleted roster, it had to be bad if we were willing to trade him away.
2.If he ends up doing well for KC, it does not mean we should have kept him. A transmission for a Mustang will not work on a Ferrari.
In his first game with KC, he did not do much. That is to be expected and is not a knock on him. He just got there. We will have to wait a year to see what happens.
So very much!
There’ll never be another Giant like Kadarius Toney.
Travis Kelce… enjoy your early Christmas gift!
I'm open to hearing some facts from Toney's side that would justify his disgruntled attitude towards the Giants, but you never provide any. You're always quick to defend him or act exasperated when others attack his character. You were even surprised that the Giants traded him. Do you have anything to back it up?
The only reason he lasted as long as he did was because the talent was obvious. It's not a surprise that he's turning on elsewhere, but it was never gonna happen here. Only he knows why.
Well he simply wouldn't play here. Not sure how moving him is getting it wrong when the guy won't fucking practice or play. Good riddance. Smart, tough and dependable - he was 0-3. Adi-fucking-os.
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Lol.
You expect fans to be happy about all of this? Another wasted first round pick at a need position?
LOL
LMAO
exactly. fuck him.
Link - ( New Window )
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Lol.
I'm open to hearing some facts from Toney's side that would justify his disgruntled attitude towards the Giants, but you never provide any. You're always quick to defend him or act exasperated when others attack his character. You were even surprised that the Giants traded him. Do you have anything to back it up?
I was surprised giants traded anyone away at the deadline.
And yes I defended him not being here voluntary workouts because I know the definition of the word voluntary.
But we’ve been through that.
People still putting the blame on him making music is *chefs kiss* though.
Any other questions?
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha....yeah, the people that have turned around a disaster of a franchise in short order are "dysfunctional" because they couldn't get through to this lazyass clown
Easiest touchdown of the year for anybody. All he had to do was not drop it and then run 10 yards in under 30 seconds. Hahah.
This is very telling! Thank you for this link.
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I believe he also had another 30+ yards rushing. But what I really found amusing was that apparently on his touchdown, next GEN stats have him as the most wide-open touchdown reception of the week. (if not the season). I’m completely going off of memory, but apparently there was no one within 20 yards of him in any direction.
Easiest touchdown of the year for anybody. All he had to do was not drop it and then run 10 yards in under 30 seconds. Hahah.
Golladay would have dropped it and hurt his hammy.
Correct. KT has 33 yards rushing on two carries. The TD was a 6-yard pass from Mahomes out to the flat after Mahomes couldn't find anyone in the endzone after looking for about a half hour. And then KT literally hopped into the endzone on one foot.
Would that stat line have gotten any attention (outside BBI) had it been with the Giants?
Right now that’s actually kind of a negative lol.
"Is he funny?"
Seriously?
No doubt but, again, it's still more than you can say about Toney's malingering ass.
Malingerers are the worst, just the fucking worst.
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Right now that’s actually kind of a negative lol.
No doubt but, again, it's still more than you can say about Toney's malingering ass.
Malingerers are the worst, just the fucking worst.
A scobberlotcher.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
Your love affair with Toney is hysterical. And bizarre. Of all the guys to plant your flag for, it’s this assclown. Pathetic
cbs sports - ( New Window )
-Jason Kelce on Kadarius Toney
At least Schoen got something for him.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Quote:
Lol.
Your love affair with Toney is hysterical. And bizarre. Of all the guys to plant your flag for, it’s this assclown. Pathetic
I’m not the one making threads about a chiefs player.
I agree I do not think it was he did not want to be here per se, I think it was more in line with him being immature and character issues. Obviously, he knows now that he is probably on his last chance to make good, so this is the honeymoon period where he tries to correct his behavior that led to the downfall in NY. The problem is that more often than not, the Honeymoon period fades and the person goes back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place. We will see what happens with Kadarius Toney.
How do you square this with your earlier post that this will be viewed as a monumentally bad trade? smh
If you are Golliday or Toney it is like why bother? I mean he had 2 targets one was a bad throw the other a drop and he sat on a bench and has been sitting for David Sills?
Quote:
Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Calls for maturity on a football fan message board strike me as bizarre. We're not analyzing the works of Shakespeare here folks!
this is an important listen -- these two are at the facility on a regular basis
It is possible, that Toney tuned Giants out after initial experience, and would not consider letting management back in. Not a mature reaction, but hey this is the NFL with no shortage of prima donnas.
Remember all the nice things Giants players said about Webb and later Jones in his first few seasons?
All that being said, one "black mark" isn't really a big deal considering how everything else is going. No coach or front office is going to be perfect and you just hope to hit more than you miss.
I have complete confidence in Daboll and Schoen even if this Toney situation ends up being a bad look.
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I believe he also had another 30+ yards rushing. But what I really found amusing was that apparently on his touchdown, next GEN stats have him as the most wide-open touchdown reception of the week. (if not the season). I’m completely going off of memory, but apparently there was no one within 20 yards of him in any direction.
Easiest touchdown of the year for anybody. All he had to do was not drop it and then run 10 yards in under 30 seconds. Hahah.
Yes it was a joke. He almost went out of bounds, and then hopped on one leg 5 yds into the endzone. No one was close enough to even get him hopping on one leg.
One aspect I find interesting is Kafka being on staff who has deep ties to Reid and KC. Hard for me not to think there was some communication and I doubt MK would not give some type of heads up if Toney was just a waste.
It's a black mark against Toney, not the organization
It is possible, that Toney tuned Giants out after initial experience, and would not consider letting management back in. Not a mature reaction, but hey this is the NFL with no shortage of prima donnas.
It's been 2 OCs later . What exactly were you expecting? Some of these wins -- against some bottom of the barrel teams no less -- remind me a lot of the Raiders win from last seasoni.e. conservative and boring with Jones not throwing over 200 yards and no TDs.
Let's leave intelligence out of it, Travis.
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Why this organization chose to draft this "special situation" when we had a traditional old, very old fart as an OC at the time defines dysfunctional organization.
It is possible, that Toney tuned Giants out after initial experience, and would not consider letting management back in. Not a mature reaction, but hey this is the NFL with no shortage of prima donnas.
It's been 2 OCs later . What exactly were you expecting? Some of these wins -- against some bottom of the barrel teams no less -- remind me a lot of the Raiders win from last seasoni.e. conservative and boring with Jones not throwing over 200 yards and no TDs.
This is a thread on Toney. Keep your Jones agenda on its own thread.
No matter what Toney does in KC, it still doesn't mean that JS/BD got this one wrong.
Maybe the trade was a wake up call for Toney (not that he'd ever admit it), and if that's the case, he never would have come close to his potential without that wake up call.
I would compare it to Cris Carter with the Eagles (though the specific circumstances are very different when substance abuse is involved). Carter went on to have a HOF career with the Vikings, and it would stand to reason that the Eagles made a mistake by giving up on him. But he never would have had that HOF career if the Eagles hadn't given up on him.
Toney was a waste of space with the Giants, and nothing that he does with the Chiefs will retroactively make him less of a waste for his time with the Giants.
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In comment 15910913 Bob in Newburgh said:
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Why this organization chose to draft this "special situation" when we had a traditional old, very old fart as an OC at the time defines dysfunctional organization.
It is possible, that Toney tuned Giants out after initial experience, and would not consider letting management back in. Not a mature reaction, but hey this is the NFL with no shortage of prima donnas.
It's been 2 OCs later . What exactly were you expecting? Some of these wins -- against some bottom of the barrel teams no less -- remind me a lot of the Raiders win from last seasoni.e. conservative and boring with Jones not throwing over 200 yards and no TDs.
This is a thread on Toney. Keep your Jones agenda on its own thread.
I am just pointing out the inconsistencies of the post. Garrett is to blame for Toney checking out? He had his best gmae as a Giant under Garrett. That was 2 OCs ago. This team didn't magically transform into the greatest show on turf when they fired Garrett is my point. But I appreciate the vigalante BBI justice.
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and say Daboll and Schoen got this one wrong. Its not a black eye by any means, but something tells me Toney is gonna be a really good player in this league.
No matter what Toney does in KC, it still doesn't mean that JS/BD got this one wrong.
Maybe the trade was a wake up call for Toney (not that he'd ever admit it), and if that's the case, he never would have come close to his potential without that wake up call.
I would compare it to Cris Carter with the Eagles (though the specific circumstances are very different when substance abuse is involved). Carter went on to have a HOF career with the Vikings, and it would stand to reason that the Eagles made a mistake by giving up on him. But he never would have had that HOF career if the Eagles hadn't given up on him.
Toney was a waste of space with the Giants, and nothing that he does with the Chiefs will retroactively make him less of a waste for his time with the Giants.
And you guys can be completely right and I am 100% off. But there is two sides to every story and we basically know the HC and GM side. Something was off from the get go with Toney here. I am not doubting that. I just hate seeing talented players go to waste on a team that needs them.
I am just pointing out the inconsistencies of the post. Garrett is to blame for Toney checking out? He had his best gmae as a Giant under Garrett. That was 2 OCs ago. This team didn't magically transform into the greatest show on turf when they fired Garrett is my point. But I appreciate the vigalante BBI justice.
You coming here to defend Jason Garrett just proves you are Debaser. Way to out yourself.
I would say Kelce is sick trolling us Giants fans, but he seems like a genuine meathead.
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I am just pointing out the inconsistencies of the post. Garrett is to blame for Toney checking out? He had his best gmae as a Giant under Garrett. That was 2 OCs ago. This team didn't magically transform into the greatest show on turf when they fired Garrett is my point. But I appreciate the vigalante BBI justice.
You coming here to defend Jason Garrett just proves you are Debaser. Way to out yourself.
Who the heck is that?
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Lol.
I'm open to hearing some facts from Toney's side that would justify his disgruntled attitude towards the Giants, but you never provide any. You're always quick to defend him or act exasperated when others attack his character. You were even surprised that the Giants traded him. Do you have anything to back it up?
Also: this shit where people who don’t like hip hop are making fun of Toney’s music is pretty ugly. You can’t judge talent when you don’t even like the genre. Is he the next Kendrick Lamar or Eric Jamaal? Nah. But his music isn’t bad. If he had better production I could see him being successful. But there was nothing to suggest that his hamstring was a front so he could work on his music. He was at the facility the whole time. Getting treatment, working out, etc.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
The guy has played 2 games since being traded. The first game he had 2 catches for 12 yards. How is this a failure right now? It’s literally comical to see some of these comments. When he puts together a string of games where he actually plays and produces then you can start making these comments. Until then, these are just plain stupid.
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In comment 15910768 RicFlair said:
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Lol.
I'm open to hearing some facts from Toney's side that would justify his disgruntled attitude towards the Giants, but you never provide any. You're always quick to defend him or act exasperated when others attack his character. You were even surprised that the Giants traded him. Do you have anything to back it up?
Do you have anything to back up the claims that he was faking injury, didn’t want to play and that he lacks intelligence? I can’t speak for eyebrow, but for me, all I’ve ever said is that we don’t know anything. We can assume and we can speculate, but we can’t present any of that as fact and without facts, without evidence, the vitriol and venom directed at this kid is unwarranted and really shows a feeling of entitlement that is far beyond what is deserved. The same shit happened with McKinney and all the assumptions about his character. I simply wish people would stop presenting what they THINK as indisputable fact. That’s all. But by all means, let’s keep dogging the kid.
Also: this shit where people who don’t like hip hop are making fun of Toney’s music is pretty ugly. You can’t judge talent when you don’t even like the genre. Is he the next Kendrick Lamar or Eric Jamaal? Nah. But his music isn’t bad. If he had better production I could see him being successful. But there was nothing to suggest that his hamstring was a front so he could work on his music. He was at the facility the whole time. Getting treatment, working out, etc.
Eyebrow is actually the person you are responding to.
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We can make up all the feel good stories in the world and cite whatever rumors we want to believe, but this was a failure.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
The guy has played 2 games since being traded. The first game he had 2 catches for 12 yards. How is this a failure right now? It’s literally comical to see some of these comments. When he puts together a string of games where he actually plays and produces then you can start making these comments. Until then, these are just plain stupid.
And as silly as the term 'draft capital' is, the trade was literally a gain rather than a loss. Once you pick a player, that draft capital is gone. The trade ended up giving the Giants more future picks than they had before, hence a gain of draft capital.
All the other thoughts around him are secondary to that.
Someone please explain what the Giants staff could have done to change that? I think they did everything they could short of bribing him or physically dragging his ass out there.
I agree, I ask myself the same question quite often
Oh wait, he wasn't talking about Hill?
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We can make up all the feel good stories in the world and cite whatever rumors we want to believe, but this was a failure.
Trading him was a loss of draft capital and considering the state of the WR corps, it was totally nonsense. The organization needed to make it work, at least until offseason.
The guy has played 2 games since being traded. The first game he had 2 catches for 12 yards. How is this a failure right now? It’s literally comical to see some of these comments. When he puts together a string of games where he actually plays and produces then you can start making these comments. Until then, these are just plain stupid.
I mean, he didn't really play many reps that first game and he was not all the way there with the playbook yet (and may still not be). But he obviously got more snaps last week and the skills are there. I think this is a situation where the Chiefs are going to be really happy with this trade, particularly in the short run, and the Giants are happy to get a malcontent out of their building. Win-win. I'll take the mediocre pick return for a guy that really didn't want to be here.
And I never underestimate the ability of a knucklehead to be a knucklehead again in the future, so at some point, that's the Chiefs' problem. Onward!
Don't know what happened w/ the Giants, we may never know.
But using my eyes, the guy does everything right when he's on the field and healthy. Plays hard, makes plays, high energy.
Kelce observing the same.
Might just start him in fantasy over Diontae Johnson this weekend.
Another brilliant take from that link for Philly:
I was only glancing at KC and the Giants when I noticed the Philly headline. I don’t even want to look at the rest of their takes.
+1
It was Daboll’s fault. Happened this summer.
He didn’t play Kadarius music loud enough on the practice field.
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In comment 15910861 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Calls for maturity on a football fan message board strike me as bizarre. We're not analyzing the works of Shakespeare here folks!
Do you watch the NFL? Do you see some of the catches being made? Not every throw has to be perfect. Golladay has been bad. In the NFL you re paid to catch the ball when they throw it to you. If you do it well, they might throw it to you again, that’s how it works
All the other thoughts around him are secondary to that.
Someone please explain what the Giants staff could have done to change that? I think they did everything they could short of bribing him or physically dragging his ass out there.
Bingo. Two different front offices and two different head coaches came to the same conclusion about Toney. He didn’t want to practice at times or play. Dan Duggan tweeted sometime during the offseason that Joe Judge and the front office thought Toney could’ve played the final 2 games of the season and Toney just said no.
As I said when the trade was announced, don’t be surprised if Toney is magically 100% healthy or that Andy Reid knows how to use him.
Kelce admittedly doesn't know what happened here.
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....
I agree I do not think it was he did not want to be here per se, I think it was more in line with him being immature and character issues. Obviously, he knows now that he is probably on his last chance to make good, so this is the honeymoon period where he tries to correct his behavior that led to the downfall in NY. The problem is that more often than not, the Honeymoon period fades and the person goes back to the behavior that got them in trouble in the first place. We will see what happens with Kadarius Toney.
How do you square this with your earlier post that this will be viewed as a monumentally bad trade? smh
The guy just helped them win a game with a TD. It's already a bad trade...at least until we see what Schoen does with the pics.
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In comment 15910861 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Calls for maturity on a football fan message board strike me as bizarre. We're not analyzing the works of Shakespeare here folks!
You can’t tell the difference between the way Eli and Kadarius Toney approach the game, or are you saying the difference doesn’t matter? Your post is bizarre all due respect.
Put this whole clusterfuck behind us…and be done with it
Do you mind letting us know your name and role in the NYG organization?
Your posts, and not just this one, make this fairly obvious.
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In comment 15910877 Greg from LI said:
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In comment 15910861 LakeGeorgeGiant said:
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Talented but immature it would seem, but we will never know what really happened.
I understand the frustration of a wasted pick, but the anger and "fuck him" stuff sounds just as juvenile as anything has done.
This board has a tendency to dwell on these things, and act like manchildren. At some point I hope you stop driving by your ex's house.
The anger stems from him *choosing* to be a wasted pick, and this all happened in the past 18 months. If people are still going on and on about Kadarius Toney in two years, then I'd agree with you. At the moment, there are very good reasons to dislike him. I don't bring him up, I don't start threads about him, but I do dislike him quite a bit.
Calls for maturity on a football fan message board strike me as bizarre. We're not analyzing the works of Shakespeare here folks!
You can’t tell the difference between the way Eli and Kadarius Toney approach the game, or are you saying the difference doesn’t matter? Your post is bizarre all due respect.
You’re misunderstanding my comment. Not about player maturity/commitment. But in reference to LGG bemoaning posters behaving as manchildren. We’re grown men posting on a football board - there’s no need for us to pretend to be diplomatic about disliking a guy who quit on the team.
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if he traded a player that went on to produce for his next team? I think he’d be vilified for trading Toney under similar circumstances. And no, just because we’re 7-2 doesn’t mean that we can’t be critical of any of Schoen’s decisions because we have a winning record.
Do you mind letting us know your name and role in the NYG organization?
Your posts, and not just this one, make this fairly obvious.
I’m flattered. Being critical of anything relating to the new regime will bring out all sorts of accusations.
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if he traded a player that went on to produce for his next team? I think he’d be vilified for trading Toney under similar circumstances. And no, just because we’re 7-2 doesn’t mean that we can’t be critical of any of Schoen’s decisions because we have a winning record.
Do you mind letting us know your name and role in the NYG organization?
Your posts, and not just this one, make this fairly obvious.
@Mustanglover_.
None of us really knows what happens behind the scenes. Maybe he was not salvagable here. Maybe not. Maybe he was reachable with the right buttons pushed. Maybe not. Daboll is proving to be an excellent coach, but he's not perfect. Nobody is.
It would've been really good for the Giants if we were able to get Toney on the field and producing. It didn't happen. I'm sure a lot of the fault is Toneys. I'm sure it was a challenge for the coaching staff.
I trust our coaches and FO a lot. So I'm not going to be extremely critical of them. But big picture, it was a disappointing situation because we need the talent that he has. And it was never actualized here.
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In comment 15911397 giantBCP said:
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if he traded a player that went on to produce for his next team? I think he’d be vilified for trading Toney under similar circumstances. And no, just because we’re 7-2 doesn’t mean that we can’t be critical of any of Schoen’s decisions because we have a winning record.
Do you mind letting us know your name and role in the NYG organization?
Your posts, and not just this one, make this fairly obvious.
I’m flattered. Being critical of anything relating to the new regime will bring out all sorts of accusations.
It’s okay to be critical of any of the NYG regimes if supportable.
Yours feels more like sour grapes and jealousy.
Because you were on all your poor player moves?
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I feel like they made a poor trade, and they aren’t being called out on it, that’s all.
Because you were on all your poor player moves?
Can you rephrase this question, because I literally don’t understand what you’re trying to say here.
He’s a young player. It’s more likely that he improves.