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In depth take on OBJ's possible contract situation

mfjmfj : 11/17/2022 12:30 pm
Highlights:

1). Author thinks 50/50 NYG or Dallas.
2). Demonstrates how it can be done with a $1MM cap hit in 2022. Hopefully, that puts to bed once and for all the canard that the Giants don't have the cap space for this.
3). The article is complicated and worth the read, but an overly simplified summary would be that a "fair" deal is somewhere around $14MM guaranteed escalating to $30MM guaranteed if performance escalators are hit. Total deal something like 4/40.

If our team is convinced he is healthy, then I would view this as very doable. If OBJ is what he was last year, this is a big win for us. If he is cooked, we flush $14MM in cap space. I would roll those dice. That is about what you would pay a first round pick in the 5-10 range next year. I wouldn't spend such a pick on OBJ, but I would pay him and not spend the pick!


Agent's Take: Treating Odell Beckham Jr. fairly on a long-term deal as he prepares for NFL return - ( New Window )
4/$40 mill for a  
section125 : 11/17/2022 12:37 pm : link
30 yr old, twice torn ACL player is a fair deal?

I am an OBJ fan. But I see nothing "fair" in those numbers.
RE: 4/$40 mill for a  
OBJ_AllDay : 11/17/2022 12:44 pm : link
In comment 15911018 section125 said:
Quote:
30 yr old, twice torn ACL player is a fair deal?

I am an OBJ fan. But I see nothing "fair" in those numbers.


Its on par with Nelson Agholor, Tyler Boyd, Devante Parker, Russel Gage, DJ Shark. Its not a terrible deal off redzone production alone.
Are you effing kidding me!  
BillT : 11/17/2022 12:47 pm : link
Sign this guy to a 4 year/$40m contract coming of his 2nd ACL without him playing a single game since his last ACL. If they do this I’ll totally have to wonder about their judgment.
Rams signed him  
uther99 : 11/17/2022 12:47 pm : link
for 1 year 1.25mill (plus incentives to 3 million). Now he's worth 4/40? I don't get it, unless he took a huge discount to go to Rams
RE: RE: 4/$40 mill for a  
BillT : 11/17/2022 12:48 pm : link
In comment 15911033 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
In comment 15911018 section125 said:


Quote:


30 yr old, twice torn ACL player is a fair deal?

I am an OBJ fan. But I see nothing "fair" in those numbers.



Its on par with Nelson Agholor, Tyler Boyd, Devante Parker, Russel Gage, DJ Shark. Its not a terrible deal off redzone production alone.

How do you know he’s still “on par” with any of those guys coming off his injury. That’s nuts.
Depends on the performance incentives in contract  
Payasdaddy : 11/17/2022 12:49 pm : link
That can make it work for both parties
I feel much better from my second hip replacement from the first
So possibly Odell knee just as good
It’s more building the muscle back around acl. Not the tendon itself
RE: Rams signed him  
BillT : 11/17/2022 12:50 pm : link
In comment 15911036 uther99 said:
Quote:
for 1 year 1.25mill (plus incentives to 3 million). Now he's worth 4/40? I don't get it, unless he took a huge discount to go to Rams

Right that’s what he’s worth. $1.25m prorated for the final 9 games. About $700k.
Do it  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/17/2022 12:50 pm : link
Get him in here
RE: 4/$40 mill for a  
Jack Stroud : 11/17/2022 12:52 pm : link
In comment 15911018 section125 said:
Quote:
30 yr old, twice torn ACL player is a fair deal?

I am an OBJ fan. But I see nothing "fair" in those numbers.
I'm with you you on that one, too old and too injured for that kind of money! If he were the missing piece to get to the SB, sure, worth it, but he is not , not this year anyway!
4/$40?  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/17/2022 12:53 pm : link
Pass
Please Dallas, do this.  
BillT : 11/17/2022 12:54 pm : link
.
that sounds kinda  
Dr. D : 11/17/2022 12:55 pm : link
cray cray
An agent thinks a player should get a ridiculous contract  
BigBlue565358 : 11/17/2022 12:57 pm : link
what a surprise
Did anyone actually read the article  
Brandon Walsh : 11/17/2022 12:59 pm : link
?
RE: Did anyone actually read the article  
mfjmfj : 11/17/2022 1:06 pm : link
In comment 15911062 Brandon Walsh said:
Quote:
?


I did. Based on comments no one else did.
RE: Are you effing kidding me!  
Spiciest Memelord : 11/17/2022 1:08 pm : link
In comment 15911035 BillT said:
Quote:
Sign this guy to a 4 year/$40m contract coming of his 2nd ACL without him playing a single game since his last ACL. If they do this I’ll totally have to wonder about their judgment.


Time to root for the Jets.
4 years?  
islander1 : 11/17/2022 1:08 pm : link
pass.

This would be a very Dallas thing to do though.
They are suggesting that  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/17/2022 1:14 pm : link
he wants a 4 year contract and he want this year prorated at $3.6 million and change for the rest of the season and $11+ million a year for three more years

that they could basically pay him $1 mill this year and push the rest of this year's money into the last three years and include performance clauses in there -- but it is essentially a 4/40 contract they are talking about

now if you're only giving him 1 mill this year and the rest of the first year is spread out - okay -- but he's going to want more money guaranteed than that
A 30-year-old WR...  
bw in dc : 11/17/2022 1:16 pm : link
with two significant lower extremity injuries - one within the last year - is not worth any multi-year investment with the guaranteed money mentioned. NFW.

If we could get him for a one-year rental, sure.

Too much risk.
RE: 4/$40 mill for a  
allstarjim : 11/17/2022 1:23 pm : link
In comment 15911018 section125 said:
Quote:
30 yr old, twice torn ACL player is a fair deal?

I am an OBJ fan. But I see nothing "fair" in those numbers.


I'd bet that OBJ would want something shorter to re-establish his value. I could see him signing a 2-year deal, wanting to hit free agency again after 2023...if he can put together a season and a half of relative healthy football.

I'm in the camp that I think whoever gets him, he will be a difference-maker. Not terribly concerned with the ACLs. Whenever I think of ACLs, I think of Frank Gore. This guy tore his left ACL twice in college, then just went on to play 16 seasons in the NFL, rushing for 16,000 yards, 12 seasons with more than 1000 scrimmage yards, scoring 99 TDs in his HOF career.

I realize that coming back from another when you're 30 as opposed to when you're 21 years old can be a lot different, but OBJ is the kind of uber-elite athlete I would bet on.
RE: RE: Rams signed him  
mfjmfj : 11/17/2022 1:29 pm : link
In comment 15911042 BillT said:
Quote:
In comment 15911036 uther99 said:


Quote:


for 1 year 1.25mill (plus incentives to 3 million). Now he's worth 4/40? I don't get it, unless he took a huge discount to go to Rams


Right that’s what he’s worth. $1.25m prorated for the final 9 games. About $700k.


OBJ made $20MM last year. $4.25MM from the Rams. And if you could get from him what the Rams got from him you should be more than happy to pay 4/$40 especially as structured in the article.
RE: They are suggesting that  
mfjmfj : 11/17/2022 1:33 pm : link
In comment 15911091 gidiefor said:
Quote:
he wants a 4 year contract and he want this year prorated at $3.6 million and change for the rest of the season and $11+ million a year for three more years

that they could basically pay him $1 mill this year and push the rest of this year's money into the last three years and include performance clauses in there -- but it is essentially a 4/40 contract they are talking about

now if you're only giving him 1 mill this year and the rest of the first year is spread out - okay -- but he's going to want more money guaranteed than that


I think the structure the article suggest would essentially give him a guarantee of next year at something like $11MM and then other guarantees based on roster and performance. If healthy and close to what he was last year, I would take that in a heartbeat. In other words downside for the team is more like $14MM than $40. As anyone who pays attention knows, the ultimate contract amount matters much less than the guarantees.
Ain’t gonna be any OBJ  
M.S. : 11/17/2022 1:38 pm : link

On the NYG

Repeat after me.
That's a hard pass.  
Matt M. : 11/17/2022 1:46 pm : link
I would entertain a deal for the rest of this year with $1M guaranteed and the rest in incentives. A multi-year deal shouldn't even be on the table until after he shows something this year.

He is less than 10 months removed from his 2nd ACL surgery and had an awful ankle injury prior. There is no way top confidently think we would get anywhere near even the WR he was with the Rams last year.
Let's discuss a few facts  
WillieYoung : 11/17/2022 2:00 pm : link
(1) It's not your money;
(2) We have the salary cap room to do this;
(3) This is not WR 1 money, it's a WR 2 contract;
(4) He played extremely well last year and was the leading
receiver on the Rams in the Super Bowl before he got hurt;
(5) He may not be able to dominate the way he did in 2015-
2017 but he can keep defenses honest, reduce Barkly's
workload: and
(6) It will be entertaining to see the OBJ haters on this
Board lose their shit
To compare  
OBJ_AllDay : 11/17/2022 2:07 pm : link
Shepard got 4 years/41 million...

Idk about you but I trust the ability of a 2 ACL tear Beckham over Shepard. The Giants are 7-2 in a weak NFC class. If he can help them in a playoff push, pull the trigger. I also doubt he gets 40 mil...
Hard Pass  
ZogZerg : 11/17/2022 2:08 pm : link
.
4/40 means almost nothing.  
Kmed6000 : 11/17/2022 2:09 pm : link
Its $14M gtd which is not a big number at all, even for an injury prone player who may not have a lot left.
RE: RE: RE: Rams signed him  
BillT : 11/17/2022 2:10 pm : link
In comment 15911117 mfjmfj said:
Quote:
In comment 15911042 BillT said:


Quote:


In comment 15911036 uther99 said:


Quote:


for 1 year 1.25mill (plus incentives to 3 million). Now he's worth 4/40? I don't get it, unless he took a huge discount to go to Rams


Right that’s what he’s worth. $1.25m prorated for the final 9 games. About $700k.



OBJ made $20MM last year. $4.25MM from the Rams. And if you could get from him what the Rams got from him you should be more than happy to pay 4/$40 especially as structured in the article.

No, I wouldn't be happy with that. I'd be happy with a vet min prove it deal.
Beckham returning to New York is a great story  
BlackLight : 11/17/2022 2:11 pm : link
but without knowing what his now-ceiling is at 30 years old and coming off his second ACL surgery in 16 months, I don't think he fits into Schoen's vision for the rebuild. Something to which he has shown to be uncompromising to this point.

In a perfect world, Beckham is willing to accept a partial-year deal to take through the end of this season, so we at least know what he's able to do for us. Then, assuming we still want him, we negotiate a multi-year deal next spring when we don't need to play cap-o-nomics to afford him.

But I can't fathom Beckham would be okay with that arrangement. He's probably weird enough to do it if nobody's in his ear telling him not to, but he surely does have those people.
RE: RE: 4/$40 mill for a  
FranknWeezer : 11/17/2022 2:24 pm : link
In comment 15911033 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:

Its on par with Nelson Agholor, Tyler Boyd, Devante Parker, Russel Gage, DJ Shark.


Doo doo doo doo doo doo
RE: Let's discuss a few facts  
clatterbuck : 11/17/2022 2:27 pm : link
In comment 15911164 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
(1) It's not your money;
(2) We have the salary cap room to do this;
(3) This is not WR 1 money, it's a WR 2 contract;
(4) He played extremely well last year and was the leading
receiver on the Rams in the Super Bowl before he got hurt;
(5) He may not be able to dominate the way he did in 2015-
2017 but he can keep defenses honest, reduce Barkly's
workload: and
(6) It will be entertaining to see the OBJ haters on this
Board lose their shit


Yes on 1 through 5. Hell yes on 6.
RE: RE: RE: 4/$40 mill for a  
OBJ_AllDay : 11/17/2022 2:29 pm : link
In comment 15911208 FranknWeezer said:
Quote:
In comment 15911033 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:



Its on par with Nelson Agholor, Tyler Boyd, Devante Parker, Russel Gage, DJ Shark.



Doo doo doo doo doo doo


Exactly... He's a better player than those comparable salaries
RE: RE: RE: RE: 4/$40 mill for a  
BillT : 11/17/2022 2:32 pm : link
In comment 15911218 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
In comment 15911208 FranknWeezer said:


Quote:


In comment 15911033 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:



Its on par with Nelson Agholor, Tyler Boyd, Devante Parker, Russel Gage, DJ Shark.



Doo doo doo doo doo doo



Exactly... He's a better player than those comparable salaries

You don’t know that. No one does. He might have been a better player than those but you don’t have a clue what he is now.
BillT  
WillieYoung : 11/17/2022 2:37 pm : link
Name an elite athlete who had an injury and came back as the equivalent of Tyler Boyd?
Is he going to hold a workout?  
BigBlue565358 : 11/17/2022 2:42 pm : link
How can you sign someone to more than this year without seeing if he can still play?
RE: 4/$40 mill for a  
GMen72 : 11/17/2022 2:43 pm : link
In comment 15911018 section125 said:
Quote:
30 yr old, twice torn ACL player is a fair deal?

I am an OBJ fan. But I see nothing "fair" in those numbers.


Couldn't agree more...what if he's cooked and isn't anywhere near what he's ever been?

Sign the dude for 2022. If he's good...resign him. Locking him in to a 4 year deal without knowing what he'll be makes no sense. That could end up being a Golladay contract.
RE: BillT  
BillT : 11/17/2022 3:13 pm : link
In comment 15911230 WillieYoung said:
Quote:
Name an elite athlete who had an injury and came back as the equivalent of Tyler Boyd?

Not sure what your point is. Tyler Boyd isn’t a good comparison to OBJ. But I don’t know one and that’s why I don’t want to sign OBJ for anything but vet min.
I’d Rather Keep Raiding Other Teams’ Practice Squad  
Trainmaster : 11/17/2022 3:38 pm : link
And hope we strike oil cheaply then sink a lot of $ into a 30 hr old WR coming off his second ACL.

Easy pass IMHO
Has he made it through a single season  
Beer Man : 11/17/2022 3:40 pm : link
without missing significant time?
Didn't Read the Piece But  
jpennyva : 11/17/2022 3:44 pm : link
since the Cowboys signed Antonio Callaway today, they are no longer interested in OBJ. If a fair deal, for both sides, can be reached AND (and it's a big and) OBJ really is healthy, I think an incentive-heavy deal could work but I don't see the Giants signing a him for more than this season. I am concerned about him actually being in game-ready condition fairly soon but I guess we'll find out. But OBJ also has incentive to demonstrate what he can still do and could get a much better contract for next year by showing his ability this year, especially with a team that so desperately needs a receiver.
Finacially coming back to NYG  
MotownGIANTS : 11/17/2022 3:47 pm : link
and doing decent is his best bet $$$ wise the story & PR is money within in itself. He has a rign now ... would possibly well be a SB MVP as noted by many ...

He'll get PT here and more of a focal point as he get field ready to handle those reps ... he just has to accept back-end money and understand play well to get more non football money .... they best story for a comeback is in NY Blue ... possible in other uniforms but not as "sexy" and want to be told by the pundits & talking heads ...
$14 MM for that loser?  
RobCrossRiver56 : 11/17/2022 3:55 pm : link

lol
OBJ is no fool.  
Optimus-NY : 11/17/2022 4:31 pm : link
He's gonna try and milk this for as much as it's worth. When will he ever be able to get a contract worth this much ever again? The NYG need to play it smoothly. Schoen won't compromise anything going forward. It's very tempting to do and he's an obvious fit now due the Giants' huge need at WR. I wouldn't close the door on him now or in the future, but uf he wants to play this year, it's gotta be less. The Cowflops signed Callaway, as indicated above, so they're not gonna go nuts over him. It's gotta be a hard pass for me at the moment considering those numbers. Get them down more, then we're talking turkey.
RE: RE: Let's discuss a few facts  
Matt M. : 11/17/2022 4:45 pm : link
In comment 15911213 clatterbuck said:
Quote:
In comment 15911164 WillieYoung said:


Quote:


(1) It's not your money;
(2) We have the salary cap room to do this;
(3) This is not WR 1 money, it's a WR 2 contract;
(4) He played extremely well last year and was the leading
receiver on the Rams in the Super Bowl before he got hurt;
(5) He may not be able to dominate the way he did in 2015-
2017 but he can keep defenses honest, reduce Barkly's
workload: and
(6) It will be entertaining to see the OBJ haters on this
Board lose their shit



Yes on 1 through 5. Hell yes on 6.
We actually don't have the room to do this for 2022. And, if you suggest a heavily backloaded contract to make this year doable, that makes it an even bigger risk and potential cap horror story. As for #5, how can you definitively say he can keep defenses honest when you have no clue of the state of his knee or overall physical capabilities at this point? He is less than 10 months removed from a 2nd ACL surgery. That is well below a normal timeline for return. I wouldn't count on anything without actually seeing him do it. What he did last year for the Rams is moot because of the way his season ended and when.
I actually like OBJ  
Matt M. : 11/17/2022 4:47 pm : link
But, I absolutely won't "lose my shit" if he signs elsewhere and is successful. Unless he is willing to bet on himself for the remainder of this year, I would not advocate for burning what little cap space we have for a huge unknown.
OBJ Skillset  
Reale01 : 11/17/2022 4:59 pm : link
He could remain productive to a lesser extent as he ages because speed is not his entire game. He was smart ran good routes and had great hands on contested catches.

I would offer him a contract with 5 million gtg in 2023 plus incentives. Player option after this year if he goes nuts and can cash in big time.
RE: Didn't Read the Piece But  
Milton : 11/17/2022 5:08 pm : link
In comment 15911311 jpennyva said:
Quote:
since the Cowboys signed Antonio Callaway today, they are no longer interested in OBJ.
So signing a receiver that nobody else wanted to their practice squad means they aren't interested in OBJ? Did I miss the sarcasm?
p.s.--Maybe the Giants should sign Callaway off the Cowboys practice squad, thus forcing the Cowboys to sign OBJ!
RE: OBJ Skillset  
Milton : 11/17/2022 5:09 pm : link
In comment 15911382 Reale01 said:
Quote:
He could remain productive to a lesser extent as he ages because speed is not his entire game. He was smart ran good routes and had great hands on contested catches.
So he only drops the easy ones?
RE: RE: Did anyone actually read the article  
section125 : 11/17/2022 5:12 pm : link
In comment 15911071 mfjmfj said:
Quote:
In comment 15911062 Brandon Walsh said:


Quote:


?



I did. Based on comments no one else did.


Did you or did you not post the 4/$40 mill?
2nd surgery on the same knee  
Blueworm : 11/17/2022 5:13 pm : link
30 years old.

Vet Min.
Can't give him 4 years  
csb : 11/18/2022 9:02 am : link
Maybe 2/$12M with a mutual option for 2024 at $12M (assuming $0 cap hit if not exercised). Upside for a 1,500yd season likely not there anymore not there but he hopefully could still be a strong #2
Julio Jones is probably the best comp  
csb : 11/18/2022 9:13 am : link
based on his past results, injury history and last 3 years of production.

2018-2021
Jones: 34 games, 181-2,599-10
OBJ: 37 games, 141-1,891-12

Jones had a monster 2018 and a pretty quick downfall whereas OBJ was tore his ACL in 2020 and had a mixed 2021 in his first year back. Jones signed a 1/6M with incentives to bring it up to $9M; that feels right for OBJ.
I am all for bringing in Odell here, he makes sense from a need  
mikeinbloomfield : 11/18/2022 9:31 am : link
perspective and he was one of my favorite players.

I admittedly don't know enough about cap implications and spreading the money out so it's less per year, but I can't see the Giants giving him a multi year deal. He's 30 coming off two serious knee injuries. Maybe if the last year if voidable or something.

This year and next year is all about setting the team up for success. I don't think Schoen is thinking long term about anything yet.
RE: RE: RE: Did anyone actually read the article  
mfjmfj : 11/18/2022 11:11 am : link
In comment 15911392 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15911071 mfjmfj said:


Quote:


In comment 15911062 Brandon Walsh said:


Quote:


?



I did. Based on comments no one else did.



Did you or did you not post the 4/$40 mill?


Not sure what your point is. As my original post said the 4/$40 is my over simplification of a very complicated discussion in the article.
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