Ignoring contracts, both in money and length, is there any other RB in the league that you'd rather have than Barkley for the rest of the year? If so, who and why?
but I'm still a big Christian McCaffery fan. I might go there or Chubb.
Nothing at all to take away from the great season Saquon is having. Putting coaching aside, Saquon and Jones are the main reasons the offense is playing so much better.
Henry and especially Chubb have played behind better OLs. Not the only factor but it’s definitely a big one.
Remember the times Barkley would get hit behind the line of scrimmage like 80% of the time, holy crap that was ugly? And get 2000 yds and 14 TDs of course.
Henry and especially Chubb have played behind better OLs. Not the only factor but it’s definitely a big one.
Not sure about this year with Henry. With Lewan out since game two, that Titans OL has been using a rookie (Petit-Frere) and veteran (Dennis Daley) as their bookend Ts.
my observation is that Jones and Barkley came into season determined to prove something and they've delivered. They've proven that they are winners. There might be a few backs in the league that are better but I'm not sure there is one that would have delivered the victories the way Barkley (and Jones) have.
that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
I'm in the franchise SB group...but RB is probably the easiest position to replace. Eckler was an UDFA, wasn't he? It is weird that Brieda has averaged 5.1 YPC his entire career, but 3.2 this year. That might speak to just how special SB is?
Henry and especially Chubb have played behind better OLs. Not the only factor but it’s definitely a big one.
Not sure about this year with Henry. With Lewan out since game two, that Titans OL has been using a rookie (Petit-Frere) and veteran (Dennis Daley) as their bookend Ts.
Just one year though and we will see how the rest of the season goes. Traditionally, his OL has been better, far better.
that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
That’s probably not fair. It’s about how you build a team with cap limits. Plenty of really good backs drafted in rounds two and later. Just a few:
Jonathan Taylor- round 2
JK Dobbins - round 2
Nick Chubb - round 2
Dalvin Cook - round 2
Joe Mixon - round 2
Derrick Henry - round 2
Alvin Kamara - round 3
Saquon’s great. It’s not foolish though to think you can get really good backs in round 2 or 3.
To answer the question, I don’t think I prefer any other back to Saquon. CMC is too fragile.
Good post. Up until the very end.
Saquon is a nice asset but don't overvalue RBs in any sense. Very good ones can be found through out every draft and into middle rounds.
No need to spend a top 10 pick on one for certain.
Operational word there is “can.”
You can also find a Tom Brady in the 6th and a Dak Prescott in the 4th, wonder how that philosophy would work out for the other 30 teams with rosters to build.
that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
That’s probably not fair. It’s about how you build a team with cap limits. Plenty of really good backs drafted in rounds two and later. Just a few:
Jonathan Taylor- round 2
JK Dobbins - round 2
Nick Chubb - round 2
Dalvin Cook - round 2
Joe Mixon - round 2
Derrick Henry - round 2
Alvin Kamara - round 3
Saquon’s great. It’s not foolish though to think you can get really good backs in round 2 or 3.
To answer the question, I don’t think I prefer any other back to Saquon. CMC is too fragile.
Good post. Up until the very end.
Saquon is a nice asset but don't overvalue RBs in any sense. Very good ones can be found through out every draft and into middle rounds.
No need to spend a top 10 pick on one for certain.
Operational word there is “can.”
You can also find a Tom Brady in the 6th and a Dak Prescott in the 4th, wonder how that philosophy would work out for the other 30 teams with rosters to build.
I think the point is - with cap limits you’re better served using 1st round picks on QB, LT, ER than on RB. QB can play for 10 - 15 years at a high level; RB lifespan is very short. Spend where you get the best value from a team construction standpoint.
This year no one - he's healthy again like yr 1 and 2
- Rushing yards leader 🏆
- Most runs of 15+ yards
- 3rd most yards after contact
- 4th most missed tackles per attempt
- Over 100 yards per game 💯
- 36.5% of Giants total yards 🤯
look at the top ten rushers in the league, the only ones not selected in the top half of the second round or earlier were Jones from GB, Pierce from the Texans, and Sanders from Philly who was selected in the bottom half of the second round. It seems quite clear that most teams value good backs in that range so it's not that outrageous for someone to value a potentially great back in the first round.
IMO, it's great to use a mid-round pick when you are looking for a complimentary piece in your offense. Right or wrong, the Giants were looking for a star to help extend Eli's career. And at the moment, that star is helping carry a major portion of the offense. A lot more than any mid-round pick is being asked to do
but barkley provides an additional element of accountability out of the backfield which for this team right now makes up for the difference in being able to wear teams out
that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
Why are we making jokes about this when we won a super bowl doing it, then won another super bowl doing it?
Recency bias + unwavering belief that everything the Giants have done is brilliant.
Look at the rushing leaders this year. Outside of Barkley I’m not sure any of them are first round picks. Barkley is a very talented back no question, but the question isn’t who is better, but the marginal difference in picking a guy in the second round vs. #2 overall. He has stayed healthy this year which is great, but other than his rookie year he hasn’t played a complete season.
There is certainly reason to believe a 2nd or 3rd round pick plus some depth is a much better way to go than a top-5 pick like McCaffrey and Barkley who were both drafted by the same guy who left both of those teams in shambles.
we can get by with 10-20% less production (this is an arbitrary threshold I see thrown out a lot). Our margin of victory is razor thin. 1 big Barkley run can quite possibly be the difference between winning and losing. In a couple years when we have more and better talent, I’m fine with going cheaper at RB but right now our expensive RB is carrying the offense. I don’t think anyone on that list other than Henry and maybe Chubb can do that for the 2022 Giants.
The conversation has to be divided between right now and the future, IMO.
Because he’s kind of his own position. Great player. But at the same time, not sure he’s a guy you could give the rock to 35 times and grind out a W like Saquon’s been doing. He’s so injury prone.
Henry I’d consider for sure, he’s been that guy for years now and still is. Just a force.
Chubb is a great player but he’s always been protected by his role. They’ve never really unleashed him and rode him. Hard to compare him with a guy like Saquon who is carrying a team on his back.
Jonathan Taylor is a great player. Very explosive.
That’s really the only ones I’d consider. The kid Pierce we saw in Houston could be something big soon.
Taylor is younger so you are hoping there's more mileage left, though he's had some injuries this year.
Henry is older likely with less mileage and a jones fracture, so while he has been steadily productive there's risk.
Chubb is a bit of a goldilocks but he too has had some wear and tear and of course the major college injury.
the real answer to anyone with eyes is any of the above. all 3 have been the best player on teams that made the playoffs the last few years. assuming the nyg follow suit this year barkley will make that list 4. Chubb and Henry's AAV are exactly the same as the tag for barkley (and exactly the same as what CMC's extension paid him over his time in Carolina).
If you're laughing at this, you don't know football. Nick Chubb is already about halfway to the Hall of Fame. Great size and burst, and very tough between the tackles. Better burst behind the line of scrimmage than Henry, tougher between the tackles than Barkley.
Chubb is a great player but he’s always been protected by his role. They’ve never really unleashed him and rode him. Hard to compare him with a guy like Saquon who is carrying a team on his back.
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I'm not sure I agree with this. If anyone was protected on the Browns it was Mayfield.
3rd, 8th, currently 4th in the NFL in rush attempts over the years feels like they're riding him like a work horse. No one gets more carries than Henry but Chubb pretty much is all they have now.
People who think McCaffery is a better back than Chubb
... in a lot of ways it makes it SUCK being a fan. This is one of them. I love having Saquon as a member of the NY Giants. There are plenty of RBs I have enjoyed as Giants that were drafted in lower rounds. There are plenty of backs in the league I would enjoy rooting for if they played on the Giants. But Saquon was drafted by us. He has overcome adversity and serious injury. He's a DAMN good player. By all accounts a great teammate and person. I root for him and as a current Giant, I really don't really care to replace him with one of the current other great backs in the league.
If you're laughing at this, you don't know football. Nick Chubb is already about halfway to the Hall of Fame. Great size and burst, and very tough between the tackles. Better burst behind the line of scrimmage than Henry, tougher between the tackles than Barkley.
Chubb is also subtly elusive in the open field. He senses where the potential tacklers are and is able to shift at full speed to avoid them. Gettelman could have drafted Josh Allen on the 1st and Nick Chubb on the 2nd. Instead, he drafted Barkley and Will Hernandez. Setting aside the player Gettleman could have drafted when he was forced to draft a QB (Jones), are Barkley and Jones as good a Chubb and Allen? I don't think so.
We desperately need is big play potential and the fear that it puts into defenses.
There are arguments that other RBs are slightly better or better fits on other teams. But Barkley is certainly in the top tier and the IMO the best RB for this team.
And he is so close to breaking 60 yarders. You’ve got a back who everyone knows you are going to feature. He’s the one player defenses need to stop, and yet they can’t.
He also has relatively little tread on his tires in terms of taking seasons worth of clean hits. I think he will be clocking 1500 yd seasons when Henry is down to 3.5 YPC He is fantastic and we are a 3-6 team (if that) without him on this team. In any sport, if you have found a player who can thrive in the harsh spotlight of nyc, you don’t trade him. That’s why you don’t swap Messier for Lemieux or Pete Maravich for Clyde Frazier or Patrick Roy for Mike Richter. Too many great talents can’t cut it here. So embrace the hell out of those who probe they van!
RB is a rather unique position that there are a lot of variables that come in to play and very few RBs are undeniably the best at everything.
Was there going to be a better RB for the 49ers in 2019 than Raheem Mostert when he caught fire? When the outside zone scheme was working, I don't think anyone would've been better because he was the fastest RB, possibly player in football.
But I would say for most teams with more simplified running games with power/gap schemes and traditional use of RBs........guys like Chubb & Henry would be best.
we can get by with 10-20% less production (this is an arbitrary threshold I see thrown out a lot). Our margin of victory is razor thin. 1 big Barkley run can quite possibly be the difference between winning and losing. In a couple years when we have more and better talent, I’m fine with going cheaper at RB but right now our expensive RB is carrying the offense. I don’t think anyone on that list other than Henry and maybe Chubb can do that for the 2022 Giants.
The conversation has to be divided between right now and the future, IMO.
I guess if you're just swapping Barkley for whatever replacement RB(s), in a vacuum, this is a completely fair and valid view. I would assume that if we're arguing the merits of the cheaper RB strategy (often by committee), we'd at least consider that some combination of draft/salary would immediately be applied to improve the team elsewhere (more of an alternate universe scenario rather than just swapping out RBs).
So, if it's Barkley vs. something similar to Jacobs/Bradshaw/Ward/Ware, I think it's pretty easy to opt for Barkley if nothing else on the roster changes. But if you get Jacobs/Bradshaw/Ward/Ware AND you get to add some combination of a 1st round pick and/or $8M of free agent reinforcements to your roster, you almost definitely come out ahead as long as you don't shit the bed with those other reinforcements via FA or the draft.
Love Saquon -- he's great. Henry probably better.
Maybe Chubb, too, because he's just a tougher runner between the Ts.
Nothing at all to take away from the great season Saquon is having. Putting coaching aside, Saquon and Jones are the main reasons the offense is playing so much better.
Sorry, three years.
Remember the times Barkley would get hit behind the line of scrimmage like 80% of the time, holy crap that was ugly? And get 2000 yds and 14 TDs of course.
Not sure about this year with Henry. With Lewan out since game two, that Titans OL has been using a rookie (Petit-Frere) and veteran (Dennis Daley) as their bookend Ts.
Ah yes. Those who have forgotten the Paul Perkins, Andre Williams, Andre Brown, Wayne Gallman years.
That’s probably not fair. It’s about how you build a team with cap limits. Plenty of really good backs drafted in rounds two and later. Just a few:
Jonathan Taylor- round 2
JK Dobbins - round 2
Nick Chubb - round 2
Dalvin Cook - round 2
Joe Mixon - round 2
Derrick Henry - round 2
Alvin Kamara - round 3
Saquon’s great. It’s not foolish though to think you can get really good backs in round 2 or 3.
To answer the question, I don’t think I prefer any other back to Saquon. CMC is too fragile.
Chubb isn't as stylish, but he's just as effective. He was just as effective at Georgia as SB was at PSU.
I'm in the franchise SB group...but RB is probably the easiest position to replace. Eckler was an UDFA, wasn't he? It is weird that Brieda has averaged 5.1 YPC his entire career, but 3.2 this year. That might speak to just how special SB is?
Why are we making jokes about this when we won a super bowl doing it, then won another super bowl doing it?
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that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
That’s probably not fair. It’s about how you build a team with cap limits. Plenty of really good backs drafted in rounds two and later. Just a few:
Jonathan Taylor- round 2
JK Dobbins - round 2
Nick Chubb - round 2
Dalvin Cook - round 2
Joe Mixon - round 2
Derrick Henry - round 2
Alvin Kamara - round 3
Saquon’s great. It’s not foolish though to think you can get really good backs in round 2 or 3.
To answer the question, I don’t think I prefer any other back to Saquon. CMC is too fragile.
Good post. Up until the very end.
Saquon is a nice asset but don't overvalue RBs in any sense. Very good ones can be found through out every draft and into middle rounds.
No need to spend a top 10 pick on one for certain.
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Henry and especially Chubb have played behind better OLs. Not the only factor but it’s definitely a big one.
Not sure about this year with Henry. With Lewan out since game two, that Titans OL has been using a rookie (Petit-Frere) and veteran (Dennis Daley) as their bookend Ts.
Just one year though and we will see how the rest of the season goes. Traditionally, his OL has been better, far better.
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In comment 15912354 gidiefor said:
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that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
That’s probably not fair. It’s about how you build a team with cap limits. Plenty of really good backs drafted in rounds two and later. Just a few:
Jonathan Taylor- round 2
JK Dobbins - round 2
Nick Chubb - round 2
Dalvin Cook - round 2
Joe Mixon - round 2
Derrick Henry - round 2
Alvin Kamara - round 3
Saquon’s great. It’s not foolish though to think you can get really good backs in round 2 or 3.
To answer the question, I don’t think I prefer any other back to Saquon. CMC is too fragile.
Good post. Up until the very end.
Saquon is a nice asset but don't overvalue RBs in any sense. Very good ones can be found through out every draft and into middle rounds.
No need to spend a top 10 pick on one for certain.
Operational word there is “can.”
You can also find a Tom Brady in the 6th and a Dak Prescott in the 4th, wonder how that philosophy would work out for the other 30 teams with rosters to build.
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In comment 15912376 gary_from_chester said:
Quote:
In comment 15912354 gidiefor said:
Quote:
that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
That’s probably not fair. It’s about how you build a team with cap limits. Plenty of really good backs drafted in rounds two and later. Just a few:
Jonathan Taylor- round 2
JK Dobbins - round 2
Nick Chubb - round 2
Dalvin Cook - round 2
Joe Mixon - round 2
Derrick Henry - round 2
Alvin Kamara - round 3
Saquon’s great. It’s not foolish though to think you can get really good backs in round 2 or 3.
To answer the question, I don’t think I prefer any other back to Saquon. CMC is too fragile.
Good post. Up until the very end.
Saquon is a nice asset but don't overvalue RBs in any sense. Very good ones can be found through out every draft and into middle rounds.
No need to spend a top 10 pick on one for certain.
Operational word there is “can.”
You can also find a Tom Brady in the 6th and a Dak Prescott in the 4th, wonder how that philosophy would work out for the other 30 teams with rosters to build.
I think the point is - with cap limits you’re better served using 1st round picks on QB, LT, ER than on RB. QB can play for 10 - 15 years at a high level; RB lifespan is very short. Spend where you get the best value from a team construction standpoint.
- Most runs of 15+ yards
- 3rd most yards after contact
- 4th most missed tackles per attempt
- Over 100 yards per game 💯
- 36.5% of Giants total yards 🤯
IMO, it's great to use a mid-round pick when you are looking for a complimentary piece in your offense. Right or wrong, the Giants were looking for a star to help extend Eli's career. And at the moment, that star is helping carry a major portion of the offense. A lot more than any mid-round pick is being asked to do
Outside of that though, SB has been better than I would predict after all the injuries.
but barkley provides an additional element of accountability out of the backfield which for this team right now makes up for the difference in being able to wear teams out
This made me LOL
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that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
Why are we making jokes about this when we won a super bowl doing it, then won another super bowl doing it?
Recency bias + unwavering belief that everything the Giants have done is brilliant.
Look at the rushing leaders this year. Outside of Barkley I’m not sure any of them are first round picks. Barkley is a very talented back no question, but the question isn’t who is better, but the marginal difference in picking a guy in the second round vs. #2 overall. He has stayed healthy this year which is great, but other than his rookie year he hasn’t played a complete season.
There is certainly reason to believe a 2nd or 3rd round pick plus some depth is a much better way to go than a top-5 pick like McCaffrey and Barkley who were both drafted by the same guy who left both of those teams in shambles.
The conversation has to be divided between right now and the future, IMO.
Henry I’d consider for sure, he’s been that guy for years now and still is. Just a force.
Chubb is a great player but he’s always been protected by his role. They’ve never really unleashed him and rode him. Hard to compare him with a guy like Saquon who is carrying a team on his back.
Jonathan Taylor is a great player. Very explosive.
That’s really the only ones I’d consider. The kid Pierce we saw in Houston could be something big soon.
Henry is older likely with less mileage and a jones fracture, so while he has been steadily productive there's risk.
Chubb is a bit of a goldilocks but he too has had some wear and tear and of course the major college injury.
the real answer to anyone with eyes is any of the above. all 3 have been the best player on teams that made the playoffs the last few years. assuming the nyg follow suit this year barkley will make that list 4. Chubb and Henry's AAV are exactly the same as the tag for barkley (and exactly the same as what CMC's extension paid him over his time in Carolina).
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This made me LOL
If you're laughing at this, you don't know football. Nick Chubb is already about halfway to the Hall of Fame. Great size and burst, and very tough between the tackles. Better burst behind the line of scrimmage than Henry, tougher between the tackles than Barkley.
We are finally having a decent year as fans, and people are still unsatisfied with what we have.
Chubb is a great player but he’s always been protected by his role. They’ve never really unleashed him and rode him. Hard to compare him with a guy like Saquon who is carrying a team on his back.
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I'm not sure I agree with this. If anyone was protected on the Browns it was Mayfield.
3rd, 8th, currently 4th in the NFL in rush attempts over the years feels like they're riding him like a work horse. No one gets more carries than Henry but Chubb pretty much is all they have now.
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In comment 15912486 Producer said:
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This made me LOL
If you're laughing at this, you don't know football. Nick Chubb is already about halfway to the Hall of Fame. Great size and burst, and very tough between the tackles. Better burst behind the line of scrimmage than Henry, tougher between the tackles than Barkley.
Chubb is also subtly elusive in the open field. He senses where the potential tacklers are and is able to shift at full speed to avoid them. Gettelman could have drafted Josh Allen on the 1st and Nick Chubb on the 2nd. Instead, he drafted Barkley and Will Hernandez. Setting aside the player Gettleman could have drafted when he was forced to draft a QB (Jones), are Barkley and Jones as good a Chubb and Allen? I don't think so.
There are arguments that other RBs are slightly better or better fits on other teams. But Barkley is certainly in the top tier and the IMO the best RB for this team.
He also has relatively little tread on his tires in terms of taking seasons worth of clean hits. I think he will be clocking 1500 yd seasons when Henry is down to 3.5 YPC He is fantastic and we are a 3-6 team (if that) without him on this team. In any sport, if you have found a player who can thrive in the harsh spotlight of nyc, you don’t trade him. That’s why you don’t swap Messier for Lemieux or Pete Maravich for Clyde Frazier or Patrick Roy for Mike Richter. Too many great talents can’t cut it here. So embrace the hell out of those who probe they van!
Depends on what you're asking for from your RB.
Pure traditional RB? Sure, Chubb.
RB that can run and catch? McCaffrey.
RB is a rather unique position that there are a lot of variables that come in to play and very few RBs are undeniably the best at everything.
Was there going to be a better RB for the 49ers in 2019 than Raheem Mostert when he caught fire? When the outside zone scheme was working, I don't think anyone would've been better because he was the fastest RB, possibly player in football.
But I would say for most teams with more simplified running games with power/gap schemes and traditional use of RBs........guys like Chubb & Henry would be best.
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that want him replaced by a 4th-7th rounder that can be just as effective with less dollars
Ah yes. Those who have forgotten the Paul Perkins, Andre Williams, Andre Brown, Wayne Gallman years.
Holy shit, I guess we need to only choose players in the top 10 of the draft, because you can find some misses everywhere else.
What a lame attempt at defending the wrong side of the argument. How about Brandon Jacobs? Ahmad Bradshaw? Derrick Ward?
The conversation has to be divided between right now and the future, IMO.
I guess if you're just swapping Barkley for whatever replacement RB(s), in a vacuum, this is a completely fair and valid view. I would assume that if we're arguing the merits of the cheaper RB strategy (often by committee), we'd at least consider that some combination of draft/salary would immediately be applied to improve the team elsewhere (more of an alternate universe scenario rather than just swapping out RBs).
So, if it's Barkley vs. something similar to Jacobs/Bradshaw/Ward/Ware, I think it's pretty easy to opt for Barkley if nothing else on the roster changes. But if you get Jacobs/Bradshaw/Ward/Ware AND you get to add some combination of a 1st round pick and/or $8M of free agent reinforcements to your roster, you almost definitely come out ahead as long as you don't shit the bed with those other reinforcements via FA or the draft.