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NFT: Knicks @ Suns 3:30

larryflower37 : 11/20/2022 2:15 pm
Mitchell Robinson is back
Cam is out they have not announced starters yet
#LGK
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ajr2456...  
bceagle05 : 11/21/2022 10:03 am : link
Do you know any details of the RJ decision around Labor Day? You may have shared it at the time, but did Leon lose a game of chicken there with Utah when he gave RJ the contract?
RE: ajr2456...  
ajr2456 : 11/21/2022 10:16 am : link
In comment 15916387 bceagle05 said:
Quote:
Do you know any details of the RJ decision around Labor Day? You may have shared it at the time, but did Leon lose a game of chicken there with Utah when he gave RJ the contract?


From everyone I’ve spoken to they’ve said that when the started to finalize the extension they knew they weren’t getting Mitchell and the Cleveland deal was gaining a lot of momentum.
Got it, thanks.  
bceagle05 : 11/21/2022 10:22 am : link
RJ's gonna start to hear it from the MSG crowd on the next homestand if the shooting doesn't improve a bit.
I have not lost hope on RJ  
larryflower37 : 11/21/2022 10:53 am : link
The lack of discipline and role comes from the coach, at 22 he can adapt to a new style and approach.
Randle, Fournier, and a hurt Rose will take a miracle to move if they are not willing to part with their precious heavily protected 1's.
Moves have to start soon too many good players that deserve minutes even Mcbride deserves to be in someone's rotation somewhere.
Obi and IQ last two games  
shyster : 11/21/2022 11:06 am : link
Obi: 35 minutes, 0-9 FG, 0-5 3 pt

IQ: 55 minutes, 1-11 FG, 0-5 3 pt

90 combined minutes of court time, 1-20 FG, 0-10 3 pt

If there's one problem the Knicks don't have, it's too many good players.
RE: Obi and IQ last two games  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 11:09 am : link
In comment 15916585 shyster said:
Quote:
Obi: 35 minutes, 0-9 FG, 0-5 3 pt

IQ: 55 minutes, 1-11 FG, 0-5 3 pt

90 combined minutes of court time, 1-20 FG, 0-10 3 pt

If there's one problem the Knicks don't have, it's too many good players.


Great they have played bad for 2 games shooting the ball, now do the games before that..

You can cherry pick anyones 2 games and say hey this guy isnt good..
One thing i have noticed about Obi  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 11:17 am : link
he is not leaking out to get easy buckets and if Thibs told him to stop, then he is an even bigger idiot than i thought..

You play a shotblocker and rebounder for 48 minutes, you shouldnt need everyone crashing the glass
RE: I have not lost hope on RJ  
TyreeHelmet : 11/21/2022 11:23 am : link
In comment 15916552 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
The lack of discipline and role comes from the coach, at 22 he can adapt to a new style and approach.
Randle, Fournier, and a hurt Rose will take a miracle to move if they are not willing to part with their precious heavily protected 1's.
Moves have to start soon too many good players that deserve minutes even Mcbride deserves to be in someone's rotation somewhere.


How can you blame Barrett’s poor play on Thibs? What new style and approach can fix the issues with his game?

No chance this happens but would you trade Barrett and Randle to the Lakers for Westbrook and their 2027 unprotected 1st?

I dont blame the poor play on thibs  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/21/2022 11:31 am : link
But I do blame thibs for continuing to play him. Work that out on the practice court. It's not like he's earned his very own set of Jordan rules.
RE: I dont blame the poor play on thibs  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 11:40 am : link
In comment 15916645 Ten Ton Hammer said:
Quote:
But I do blame thibs for continuing to play him. Work that out on the practice court. It's not like he's earned his very own set of Jordan rules.


THIS
The problem with RJ  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 11:42 am : link
is he is horribly ineffecient which is caused by bad shooting and terrible shot selection, he is a very selfish player

BUT , if you lower his usage he becomes a useless player because he is just not going to score enough because he is not effecient enough..

You just are not going to win a lot of games with Rj and Randle taking the most shots and being your 2nd and 3rd best players..
RE: RE: I have not lost hope on RJ  
larryflower37 : 11/21/2022 11:48 am : link
In comment 15916630 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15916552 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


The lack of discipline and role comes from the coach, at 22 he can adapt to a new style and approach.
Randle, Fournier, and a hurt Rose will take a miracle to move if they are not willing to part with their precious heavily protected 1's.
Moves have to start soon too many good players that deserve minutes even Mcbride deserves to be in someone's rotation somewhere.



How can you blame Barrett’s poor play on Thibs? What new style and approach can fix the issues with his game?

No chance this happens but would you trade Barrett and Randle to the Lakers for Westbrook and their 2027 unprotected 1st?

Barrett's poor play is a part of no accountability and no ramifications.
coaching can improve shot selection and efficiency.
Randle and Barrett are untouchable and get 34-37 minutes no matter how they perform they are treated like superstars.
Barrett should be playing with the 2nd unit and coached on efficiency and better shot selection. More time watching and learning.
Randle needs to have a coach kick him in the ass and tell him to sit down and shut up you are not as good as you think you are. Limit his minutes and when he is lazy or doing his ISO garbage he takes a seat.
Coaching can improve players and it can destroy players.
RE: RE: Obi and IQ last two games  
shyster : 11/21/2022 11:54 am : link
In comment 15916595 nygiants16 said:
Quote:


Great they have played bad for 2 games shooting the ball, now do the games before that..

You can cherry pick anyones 2 games and say hey this guy isnt good..


IQ is shooting 27% from three and 35% from the field for the year.
RE: RE: RE: Obi and IQ last two games  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/21/2022 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15916703 shyster said:
Quote:
In comment 15916595 nygiants16 said:


Quote:




Great they have played bad for 2 games shooting the ball, now do the games before that..

You can cherry pick anyones 2 games and say hey this guy isnt good..



IQ is shooting 27% from three and 35% from the field for the year.


At least he's playing defense for sure. Shooting woes happen, it hasn't affected him on the other. I cannot say that for Barrett. His reaction to shooting poorly is to keep shooting at fairly high volume because the coach enables it. Quickley and Toppin get the hook if they tie their shoes in a way Thibs doesnt like.

RE: RE: RE: Obi and IQ last two games  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 12:01 pm : link
In comment 15916703 shyster said:
Quote:
In comment 15916595 nygiants16 said:


Quote:




Great they have played bad for 2 games shooting the ball, now do the games before that..

You can cherry pick anyones 2 games and say hey this guy isnt good..



IQ is shooting 27% from three and 35% from the field for the year.


Hes also playing great defense, rebounding and setting up his teammates, he is also taking 3 shots less per game than last year, menaing he is understanding his shot isnt falling and helping the team in other ways..

Against Denver he played his role and shut down Murray in the 4th quarter..

There is a difference between how Quickley is playing and Rj
not to change the subject  
larryflower37 : 11/21/2022 12:12 pm : link
but it's pretty impressive what Haliburton is doing in Indy.
Another big-time draft miss and trade option when we were dying for a PG.
I've been a huge RJ defender  
Mike from SI : 11/21/2022 12:16 pm : link
but he has been bad most of the season and needs to pick up the shooting. I remain confident that he will, but the current version of his production is unsustainable.
I will say  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 1:07 pm : link
if you take Rj and Randle out of the lineup and for arguments sake Cam was healthy, i dont think the Knicks get blown out yesterday, i think they still lose but the Suns dont blow it open like they did
Also  
Carl in CT : 11/21/2022 2:56 pm : link
Some in front office were never sold on RJ. But didn’t say enough cause Leon was trying to save face. After an inner circle meeting Leon insisted that everyone make their case in the future (with his final say of course) cause if you just sit on your hands why do we need you?
RE: Also  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 3:00 pm : link
In comment 15917034 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Some in front office were never sold on RJ. But didn’t say enough cause Leon was trying to save face. After an inner circle meeting Leon insisted that everyone make their case in the future (with his final say of course) cause if you just sit on your hands why do we need you?


is there anything on the burner?
.,  
DanMetroMan : 11/21/2022 3:07 pm : link
New York Basketball
@NBA_NewYork
·
2h
The Knicks are last in the NBA in:

🏀 Opponent offensive rebounds
🏀 Opponent shots attempted
🏀 Opponent 3s attempted
🏀 Opponent 3s made
Their poor defense when defending the three is killing them  
steve in ky : 11/21/2022 3:19 pm : link
For some reason they keep leaving opponents wide open for any easy three and they just don’t correct it, it’s every game.

RE: Their poor defense when defending the three is killing them  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 3:20 pm : link
In comment 15917074 steve in ky said:
Quote:
For some reason they keep leaving opponents wide open for any easy three and they just don’t correct it, it’s every game.


Its Thibs scheme, he protects the paint first and then has guys running out to 3 point shooters
Also when you continue  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 3:28 pm : link
to play slow footed 5 men who dont like coming to the perimiter you are going to continue to give up open 3s..

Your playing 2 bigs who dont want to come to the perimiter, so you got 3 guys scrambiling, teams just make the extra pass and they get an open 3
RE: RE: Their poor defense when defending the three is killing them  
steve in ky : 11/21/2022 3:29 pm : link
In comment 15917076 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15917074 steve in ky said:


Quote:


For some reason they keep leaving opponents wide open for any easy three and they just don’t correct it, it’s every game.




Its Thibs scheme, he protects the paint first and then has guys running out to 3 point shooters


A couple of years ago under Thibs weren’t they one of the better teams defending the three?
RE: Also  
TyreeHelmet : 11/21/2022 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15917034 Carl in CT said:
Quote:
Some in front office were never sold on RJ. But didn’t say enough cause Leon was trying to save face. After an inner circle meeting Leon insisted that everyone make their case in the future (with his final say of course) cause if you just sit on your hands why do we need you?


Then why not let him go to restricted free agency after this season? Same argument applies to extending Randle ahead of time.

Two major miscalculations by Leon Rose that is and will be hurting the Knicks in the long run.
RE: RE: RE: Their poor defense when defending the three is killing them  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 3:31 pm : link
In comment 15917094 steve in ky said:
Quote:
In comment 15917076 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15917074 steve in ky said:


Quote:


For some reason they keep leaving opponents wide open for any easy three and they just don’t correct it, it’s every game.




Its Thibs scheme, he protects the paint first and then has guys running out to 3 point shooters



A couple of years ago under Thibs weren’t they one of the better teams defending the three?


Because teams missed wide open 3s, Knicks gave up the most wide open 3s that year but teams only shot 32% on those..
RE: RE: Also  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 3:33 pm : link
In comment 15917099 TyreeHelmet said:
Quote:
In comment 15917034 Carl in CT said:


Quote:


Some in front office were never sold on RJ. But didn’t say enough cause Leon was trying to save face. After an inner circle meeting Leon insisted that everyone make their case in the future (with his final say of course) cause if you just sit on your hands why do we need you?



Then why not let him go to restricted free agency after this season? Same argument applies to extending Randle ahead of time.

Two major miscalculations by Leon Rose that is and will be hurting the Knicks in the long run.


Hard to fault them on the Randle extension he was coming off an all star/all nba season snd he took a huge discount to sign otherwise he woukd of been an unrestricted free agent
RE: RE: Their poor defense when defending the three is killing them  
larryflower37 : 11/21/2022 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15917076 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15917074 steve in ky said:


Quote:


For some reason they keep leaving opponents wide open for any easy three and they just don’t correct it, it’s every game.





Its Thibs scheme, he protects the paint first and then has guys running out to 3 point shooters


I will argue that it's a basic man help defense that's poorly executed.
Thibs is not running some fancy defense
I don't fault him for the scheme they communicate poorly, don't switch well and recover on switches.
Their close outs on a good ball movement teams are weak especially Randle.
There is no special sauce on man to man help defense but hustle and communication that's why when Randle is in it and working hard you see the difference but when he is not it all breaks down.
Most of the other players work hard even Fournier some are more limited physically.
RE: RE: RE: Their poor defense when defending the three is killing them  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 3:39 pm : link
In comment 15917120 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 15917076 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15917074 steve in ky said:


Quote:


For some reason they keep leaving opponents wide open for any easy three and they just don’t correct it, it’s every game.





Its Thibs scheme, he protects the paint first and then has guys running out to 3 point shooters



I will argue that it's a basic man help defense that's poorly executed.
Thibs is not running some fancy defense
I don't fault him for the scheme they communicate poorly, don't switch well and recover on switches.
Their close outs on a good ball movement teams are weak especially Randle.
There is no special sauce on man to man help defense but hustle and communication that's why when Randle is in it and working hard you see the difference but when he is not it all breaks down.
Most of the other players work hard even Fournier some are more limited physically.


I am not arguing any of that Randle hurts them defensively no doubt but Thibs philosphy is protect paint first and then run out, its why hr always has a shotblocker on the court..

In todays NBA a lot of teams go small so they can switch everything..

Knicks do the opposite and when you have 2 bigs incapable of getting out to shooters it hurts your 3 point defense
RE: RE: RE: RE: Their poor defense when defending the three is killing them  
larryflower37 : 11/21/2022 4:15 pm : link
In comment 15917121 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 15917120 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


In comment 15917076 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15917074 steve in ky said:


Quote:


For some reason they keep leaving opponents wide open for any easy three and they just don’t correct it, it’s every game.





Its Thibs scheme, he protects the paint first and then has guys running out to 3 point shooters



I will argue that it's a basic man help defense that's poorly executed.
Thibs is not running some fancy defense
I don't fault him for the scheme they communicate poorly, don't switch well and recover on switches.
Their close outs on a good ball movement teams are weak especially Randle.
There is no special sauce on man to man help defense but hustle and communication that's why when Randle is in it and working hard you see the difference but when he is not it all breaks down.
Most of the other players work hard even Fournier some are more limited physically.



I am not arguing any of that Randle hurts them defensively no doubt but Thibs philosphy is protect paint first and then run out, its why hr always has a shotblocker on the court..

In todays NBA a lot of teams go small so they can switch everything..

Knicks do the opposite and when you have 2 bigs incapable of getting out to shooters it hurts your 3 point defense

That's a man to man concept that most teams run.
2 things your wings can get too deep and need to react quicker.
Your guards need to tighten up so the swing around is slower. Your bigs need to be able to guard away from the basket on a 5 out which Robinson can't and you can't be lazy or tired.
Lazy players don't switch well and start to guard who is in front of them aka Randle on most nights and no one calls him out or pushes him away.
I don't like Thibs and never defend him but the defense is not his fault unless you blame him for letting his player be lazy and not hustle but it's not some weird concept.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Their poor defense when defending the three is killing them  
nygiants16 : 11/21/2022 4:30 pm : link
In comment 15917200 larryflower37 said:
Quote:
In comment 15917121 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15917120 larryflower37 said:


Quote:


In comment 15917076 nygiants16 said:


Quote:


In comment 15917074 steve in ky said:


Quote:


For some reason they keep leaving opponents wide open for any easy three and they just don’t correct it, it’s every game.





Its Thibs scheme, he protects the paint first and then has guys running out to 3 point shooters



I will argue that it's a basic man help defense that's poorly executed.
Thibs is not running some fancy defense
I don't fault him for the scheme they communicate poorly, don't switch well and recover on switches.
Their close outs on a good ball movement teams are weak especially Randle.
There is no special sauce on man to man help defense but hustle and communication that's why when Randle is in it and working hard you see the difference but when he is not it all breaks down.
Most of the other players work hard even Fournier some are more limited physically.



I am not arguing any of that Randle hurts them defensively no doubt but Thibs philosphy is protect paint first and then run out, its why hr always has a shotblocker on the court..

In todays NBA a lot of teams go small so they can switch everything..

Knicks do the opposite and when you have 2 bigs incapable of getting out to shooters it hurts your 3 point defense


That's a man to man concept that most teams run.
2 things your wings can get too deep and need to react quicker.
Your guards need to tighten up so the swing around is slower. Your bigs need to be able to guard away from the basket on a 5 out which Robinson can't and you can't be lazy or tired.
Lazy players don't switch well and start to guard who is in front of them aka Randle on most nights and no one calls him out or pushes him away.
I don't like Thibs and never defend him but the defense is not his fault unless you blame him for letting his player be lazy and not hustle but it's not some weird concept.


cant argue with anything you are saying, even if i want to 😆
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