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Why does it feel like the season is over?

Ralph.C : 11/20/2022 10:36 pm
Are we still paying the football gods for 2007 and 2011? These injuries are impossible to deal with. The offensive line was really playing well and we were able to get just enough out of the receivers to be a competent offense. Bellinger was contributing big. Evan Neal was emerging. It seems like every time a player starts to contribute he goes down. If the coaching staff gets these players to pull a win out Thursday, they should all be immediate hall of famers.

I’m sure Tuesday will bring renewed hope but today just sucked.

Side note: Being a Chief has not changed who Kadarious Toney is.
Hurt again.
it's the injuries, not the loss  
islander1 : 11/20/2022 10:37 pm : link
really. Losing to Detroit and being 7-3 instead of 8-2? Whatever.

but it seems we cannot get out of a single fucking game without 3 injuries to starters or more.

How the hell are we supposed to compete?
Well  
regischarlotte : 11/20/2022 10:40 pm : link
They have been able to outrun their lack of depth and talent with superior coaching (the Adoree decision aside). But when they lost even average (at best) NFL talent across the board, and replace them with practice-squad quality personnel, they almost certainly can't outrun the injuries.

Making the POs at 9-8 or 10-7 is certainly possible, but I also think there is a material nonzero likelihood that they could lose out, or come close to it.
Fans  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 10:41 pm : link
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."
Ralph  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 10:43 pm : link
Only one team (and fans base) is going to finish this season truly happy.
RE: Fans  
BigBlueJ : 11/20/2022 10:43 pm : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."


That would be cool if it where not for all our players being hurt, that does not help the rebuild and development.
it feels like  
Pork Chop : 11/20/2022 10:44 pm : link
that, to me anyway, because this was the first game that the Giants were truly out of early. The other games, even the losses to Dallas and Seattle, felt like if a 2-3 plays go a little differently, then the Giants win. Today felt like the first real ass kicking the Giants received this year.

BigBlueJ  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 10:45 pm : link
Agreed. But it is what it is.

You can curl up into a ball and cry about it or just move on and deal with the cards that have been dealt.

The positives coming out of this season are immense. We have a coaching staff. We have a GM. We might have a QB.
RE: it feels like  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 10:45 pm : link
In comment 15915993 Pork Chop said:
Quote:
that, to me anyway, because this was the first game that the Giants were truly out of early. The other games, even the losses to Dallas and Seattle, felt like if a 2-3 plays go a little differently, then the Giants win. Today felt like the first real ass kicking the Giants received this year.


The Giants played like crap, but they were still in the game at 24-12 before the third turnover in the 4th quarter.
RE: it's the injuries, not the loss  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 11/20/2022 10:46 pm : link
In comment 15915982 islander1 said:
Quote:
really. Losing to Detroit and being 7-3 instead of 8-2? Whatever.

but it seems we cannot get out of a single fucking game without 3 injuries to starters or more.

How the hell are we supposed to compete?


Bingo. But the idea that the “season feels over” is insane. I’ve always found it ridiculous that in the NFL entire narratives are created each week in a three hour stretch. Cowboys lost to a horrendous football team last week and kicked the shit out of a good football team this week. While the injuries are seriously problematic, losing a game isn’t the end of the world and has little to do with what happens the following week.
We have been skating by  
bradshaw44 : 11/20/2022 10:46 pm : link
On a wing and a prayer. This team does not have the level of talent needed to sustain what we were doing. It is a never ending cycle of injuries with this team as well. Having a deficiency in your talent, the level which we have, is just not able to be overcome if you’re guaranteed to lose 3 players to injury every week. It’s beyond frustrating.

It feels like it’s over because this was one of the games we had to have if we were going to make some noise. Sure we could go out and beat Dallas on Thursday, but we just dropped the game we should have had in this scenario. Go out and win Thursday and they will be right where I expected/hoped they would be prior to 5 days ago.

Just win.
RE: Fans  
M.S. : 11/20/2022 10:48 pm : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."

Sounds real good and it's something I subscribe to, but going down to Dallas with no secondary, no wide receivers and a dazed & confused offensive line just doesn't sound like the ingredients needed to have some fun.
There was some smoke and mirrors stuff going on  
BillT : 11/20/2022 10:49 pm : link
And that’s not a criticism. Just reality. That can’t last forever. Further, and I know no one wants to hear this, there are the injuries. They have been remarkable with the “next man up”. But that can’t last forever either. And if that’s not enough we’re facing the toughest remaining schedule in the league. That’s maybe why it feels like that.
RE: it feels like  
M.S. : 11/20/2022 10:49 pm : link
In comment 15915993 Pork Chop said:
Quote:
that, to me anyway, because this was the first game that the Giants were truly out of early. The other games, even the losses to Dallas and Seattle, felt like if a 2-3 plays go a little differently, then the Giants win. Today felt like the first real ass kicking the Giants received this year.

Yep. The Giants got their asses kicked. Badly. And sadly.
Just wait till Thursday night  
sharp315 : 11/20/2022 10:50 pm : link
Then you're gonna wish the season actually was over.
RE: We have been skating by  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 10:50 pm : link
In comment 15915999 bradshaw44 said:
Quote:
On a wing and a prayer. This team does not have the level of talent needed to sustain what we were doing. It is a never ending cycle of injuries with this team as well. Having a deficiency in your talent, the level which we have, is just not able to be overcome if you’re guaranteed to lose 3 players to injury every week. It’s beyond frustrating.

It feels like it’s over because this was one of the games we had to have if we were going to make some noise. Sure we could go out and beat Dallas on Thursday, but we just dropped the game we should have had in this scenario. Go out and win Thursday and they will be right where I expected/hoped they would be prior to 5 days ago.

Just win.


I'm going to talk about this point in my game preview this week. Parcells once said that everyone will make a big deal out of a loss against a team you were supposed to beat, but then if you can go out and beat someone everyone thought you were supposed to lose to, everything can change,.

Look, the Giants are not in good shape right because of the injury situation. The Commanders are smelling blood in the water and they should be. The Giants could still finish last in the NFC East. If they do, I think it will be because of the injuries.

BUT everything CAN change with an upset. From what I've seen, most opponents can't feel overly confident against a Brian Daboll-coached team.
M.S.  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 10:52 pm : link
With all due respect, for years you've been the poster child for overreaction.

You posted today that how the heck are the Giants supposed to win a football game when all you need to do is stop Saquon Barkley. But you didn't really think about what you just wrote.
Because it is  
VinegarPeppers : 11/20/2022 10:53 pm : link
With all these new injuries and the li getting ones and still more to come, I will be shocked if we win another game.

We’re not the same team.
RE: Because it is  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 10:55 pm : link
In comment 15916007 VinegarPeppers said:
Quote:
With all these new injuries and the li getting ones and still more to come, I will be shocked if we win another game.

We’re not the same team.


And yet if the Giants somehow beat the Cowboys. Or beat the Commanders in the next game, they will be in great shape.
RE: Fans  
Payasdaddy : 11/20/2022 10:56 pm : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."


Absolutely
Find out who are core players and who is not
With comp picks we could have 11 picks although I expect that to be 8-9 as we maneuver in draft
Hopefully guys like beavers, m mckethen and DJ Davidson come back as reliable depth or potential starters
Sign who is worth signing
Pick up a few solid FA signings that aren’t ridiculous but cover need ( cb, ILB, IOL, TE ( even as a second TE)
To me, Jones is balling. He had to press today but that’s ok. I like that he brings it as best he can.
RE: Fans  
Larry in Pencilvania : 11/20/2022 10:57 pm : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."


Holy shit some of you are ridiculous. What Eric is saying is spot on. Everyone thought this team would win 4 games even starting at the first pick. This coaching staff has earned our respect by getting more out of these players than what was thought impossible. Some players from the previous regime are finally reaching their potential. I'm calling on OX, Lawrence and Love as real pieces. This staff has really changed the culture and got rid of the stench of mediocrity and losing. Getting a winning culture establish will trump a higher pick going forward.

No one here would have dreamed having competitive football in December. Everyone was ready to rake leaves and help their wives shop on Sundays by October. We're here to real games and possible playoffs so enjoy it. This team is finally heading in the right direction so stop whining, fighting and complaining.

Enjoy
RE: RE: Because it is  
DefenseWins : 11/20/2022 10:57 pm : link
In comment 15916011 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15916007 VinegarPeppers said:


Quote:


With all these new injuries and the li getting ones and still more to come, I will be shocked if we win another game.

We’re not the same team.



And yet if the Giants somehow beat the Cowboys. Or beat the Commanders in the next game, they will be in great shape.


I think they can beat the Commanders.. but winning in Dallas on Thursday is a long shot.
Holy overreaction  
nygiants16 : 11/20/2022 10:57 pm : link
I know its been awhile since the Giants have had a winning record but losses happen, injuries happen, each week is a new week..

Do people forget the stinkers those superbowl teams had?

Stinkers happen to the best teams in tbe league, it happens, you move on, enjoy the ride
RE: There was some smoke and mirrors stuff going on  
Payasdaddy : 11/20/2022 10:58 pm : link
In comment 15916001 BillT said:
Quote:
And that’s not a criticism. Just reality. That can’t last forever. Further, and I know no one wants to hear this, there are the injuries. They have been remarkable with the “next man up”. But that can’t last forever either. And if that’s not enough we’re facing the toughest remaining schedule in the league. That’s maybe why it feels like that.


The injuries are ridiculous. Seriously, it’s like 1/3 of our top 20 players
Off the charts
RE: Fans  
Johnny5 : 11/20/2022 10:59 pm : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."

I don't disagree Eric. But the point from islander that I agree with is these G*d*mn injuries. It's beyond ridiculous at this point. The Giants have shown they can compete, but we are on a razor thin margin. We can't afford to lose multiple starters on a weekly basis. And I am so SO pissed off at McKinney for that ATV BS. And now Adoree??? Ugh.
RE: Holy overreaction  
DefenseWins : 11/20/2022 11:00 pm : link
In comment 15916018 nygiants16 said:
Quote:


Do people forget the stinkers those superbowl teams had?


Yes, I remember sitting in the stadium mid-season in 2007 saying this team sucks and will not make the playoffs
DefenseWins  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 11:02 pm : link
Probably.

No way in hell would I bet even a $1 on the Giants taking out the Cowboys.

But I've seen enough football in my decades on this planet to know that games are decided on the playing field and often don't go the way people expect them to go.

My favorite games as a Giants fan? The ones where the Giants pulled off the upset where no one gave them a chance.

I relish those games. I hope the current 2022 New York Giants do too.
......  
Route 9 : 11/20/2022 11:03 pm : link
I think it's because they showed how soft they are. It was a nice start to the season but I'm not surprised at all.

They deserve every word of ridicule that is being said today. We'll see what they can come up with against Dallas on the big stage.

Getting boring losing to Philly and Dallas all the time, so they might wanna fix this trend sometime soon.

Jones has got to play better and Barkley better have a good game or else we're fucked.
RE: Fans  
Ralph.C : 11/20/2022 11:07 pm : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."


I get that perspective Eric but it’s tough to hang on to that view after the start we’ve had. Losing house money feels bad too. If we collapse due to injuries and don’t make the playoffs? This season will be remembered for THAT, not the 6-1 7-2 start and it will feel like sh*t. It’s incredibly frustrating. We have to find a way to beat Dallas. We have to. I absolutely do not want a death spiral to start and I’m a life-long optimist with this team. However, I don’t like the way I’m feeling now at all. We need the win on national tv against Dallas this week or else we’re in big trouble.
RE: ......  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 11:08 pm : link
In comment 15916028 Route 9 said:
Quote:
I think it's because they showed how soft they are. It was a nice start to the season but I'm not surprised at all.

They deserve every word of ridicule that is being said today. We'll see what they can come up with against Dallas on the big stage.

Getting boring losing to Philly and Dallas all the time, so they might wanna fix this trend sometime soon.

Jones has got to play better and Barkley better have a good game or else we're fucked.


"They deserve every word of ridicule that is being said today."

They lost both starting CBs, were without their star FS, were down 2 offensive linemen on a team already playing way over its head.

I honestly don't know why some of you are fans anymore. I don't mean that in a mean fashion, but I don't understand what you are getting out of this. It's as if there is zero comprehension about what the team is and where it is at. It's like the reaction of a toddler.
RE: Ralph  
Ralph.C : 11/20/2022 11:09 pm : link
In comment 15915990 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Only one team (and fans base) is going to finish this season truly happy.


Yes, and I prefer that it be us. :)
Just going into this Dallas game  
thefan : 11/20/2022 11:09 pm : link
assuming its a loss to make the holiday easier. If (when) that happens, this team has to 3-3 to get a wildcard spot and maybe 2-4. It's possible.

If not, at least this season wasn't complete ass like all but one have in the last 10 or so years. We have a coach and GM, we have some pieces.
House money!  
JonC : 11/20/2022 11:11 pm : link
Even at 7-4 or 7-5 there's plenty to play for. Hang in there, there are silver linings.
Ralph.C  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 11:12 pm : link
No Ralph. Thursday's game is important, but it is not the entire season.

Can they lose out and finish on a horrible note? Sure.

But you're overreacting here to even one or two games.

Again, if you told any Giants fan the team would be 7-3 after 10 games, they wouldn't believe you.

If they don't make the playoffs this year, I personally won't be devastated because I see what the team is (this isn't me just talking out of my ass after a Week 11 loss...I've been brutally honest in my previews all year about what this team is and isn't).

A loss to Dallas only matters if they also get swept by the Commanders and the Eagles.
......  
Route 9 : 11/20/2022 11:14 pm : link
They got blown out by a 3 win team at home who is in the bottom 5 against the run and couldn't get Barkley going ... like I said.

Toddler? Sounds like you're the one taking it personally here with as if these guys are actually your friends and care about you resulting to name calling lol

Soft.
......  
Route 9 : 11/20/2022 11:16 pm : link
I'm not even saying the season is over. They can beat Dallas.
It’s not  
ajr2456 : 11/20/2022 11:20 pm : link
They’ll be in the playoffs. Which is 7 weeks away.
RE: ......  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/20/2022 11:20 pm : link
In comment 15916042 Route 9 said:
Quote:
They got blown out by a 3 win team at home who is in the bottom 5 against the run and couldn't get Barkley going ... like I said.

Toddler? Sounds like you're the one taking it personally here with as if these guys are actually your friends and care about you resulting to name calling lol

Soft.


Anyone who has followed the Lions this year know they have been in every game, including against some of the NFL's best teams such as the Eagles. This was their third win in a row. As I said in my preview, this is a far better team than their record suggests.

When a banged up Giants team loses six more players including their leading receiver, two offensive linemen, and both starting cornerbacks AND screws up repeatedly on special teams, you lose. Despite all of that, the Giants were still in the game until the third turnover.

The toddler comment wasn't meant as an insult, but I understand how you would take it as such. I suggest you reflect on what your expectations were for this team before the season started were and think about how you are reacting right now. Just a thought.
RE: ......  
thefan : 11/20/2022 11:28 pm : link
In comment 15916045 Route 9 said:
Quote:
I'm not even saying the season is over. They can beat Dallas.


Can, but on the road and banged up. I think we should temper our expectations on this one. I'm looking forward to USA winning in the cup tomorrow to wash this away and then for the Dallas game.
......  
Route 9 : 11/20/2022 11:29 pm : link
No. I'm fine with 7-3. I picked 5-12. Still, this is one of those irritating games in the middle of the season.
Assuming they lose on Thanksgiving  
Sean : 11/20/2022 11:31 pm : link
They’ll have 10 days to prepare for a huge game hosting Washington at 7-4. We all would have been thrilled with that back in August.
Giants are a good enough team to win most games  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/20/2022 11:35 pm : link
when they are able to play a certain way. It is clear as day in all the wins. That is not just coaching it is also the talent.

Now with the injuries it was too hard to stick to that formula today and Detroit played well. McNeil was a load in inside and they have other really good players as well.

On O they could not run the ball. They turned the ball over. On D they stunk on 3rd down and in the red zone (the two big things they have excelled). Detroit happens to have a very good red zone offense.

Let's hope they get the pieces back to help get back on track. X, the corners being out impact the red zone D and third downs dramatically. On O they need Neal and Bellinger.

Where the team is deficient is when it has to rely on the pass game to win. If they coaches were so good they would find a way. Things just don't work this way. Talent matters.
RE: House money!  
Ralph.C : 11/20/2022 11:39 pm : link
In comment 15916038 JonC said:
Quote:
Even at 7-4 or 7-5 there's plenty to play for. Hang in there, there are silver linings.


I know. I’m overreacting. It’s the Sunday night after a loss and the sky is falling.
You know how it goes, Eric. Most regular season losses hurt until Tuesday. Then you get up, dust yourself off, and start thinking about what a win the next game would mean. Hell, we haven’t lost 2 straight all season. Why start now?

I don’t know even know what House Money means  
Essex : 11/20/2022 11:55 pm : link
with this team. The team you are seeing now might be ripped apart. The coaching has been good most of the season, that isn’t lost upon anyone, even after tonight’s deal. Not sure, though, I see a positive direction roster wise. The draft picks have underwhelmed (in part due to injury), the players who have excelled may not have a future here (Jones, Barkley etc). The problem with today and why many aren’t overreacting is that if you really look underneath the hood of 7-3, it just comes down to the Giants winning some extremely tight games (Jacksonville, Tenn, GB, Baltimore) and we could easily be 3-7. You usually are playing with “House Money” when you overachieve with your HC and young franchise QB. We don’t have that, so House Money isn’t really what I would describe as going on or some shrewd insight other than to say we aren’t a 7-3 team and we have a 7-3 record. The direction of the roster is what really concerns me and not sure we are either not starting over next season with a new QB or we are drastically overpaying for a QB and RB next season to run it back with what was a fortunate record through 10. In the final analysis, besides the fact that our coaching staff is much better than the last two, nothing about this year gives me great confidence that next year will be better than this one.
Eric you sound like some Mets fans as they were blowing the division  
BigBlue565358 : 11/21/2022 12:03 am : link
again. The "if I told you at the beginning of the season" crap is tired

Yes we all know they overachieved, yes we all know it's a rebuilding year. But we're allowed to be frustrated when you're 7-2 and lose to an inferior team at home, we're allowed to be frustrated by all the injuries

The "if I told you at the beginning of the season" crap is for after the season

If they beat Dallas on Thursday give Daboll the coach of the Year Award right there after the game
Yeah  
SomeFan : 11/21/2022 12:14 am : link
Wheels coming off the wagon and ship be sinking
If you were around for the 1970s Giants  
BigBlue565358 : 11/21/2022 12:40 am : link
Then you know that this year feels like the 1981 season, when the Giants made the playoffs for the first time in 18 years, for many of us for the first time ever, on the last day of the season

We knew it was a rebuilding year, but it would have been crushing to miss the playoffs. That's why that Joe Danelo game against Dallas to end the season is still talked about

To miss the playoffs this year after starting 7-2 and after being so bad for years would really suck. We would understand, just like in 81, that it's a rebuilding year, but it would really suck to miss the playoffs after the 7-2 start

RE: BigBlueJ  
prdave73 : 11/21/2022 2:03 am : link
In comment 15915995 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Agreed. But it is what it is.

You can curl up into a ball and cry about it or just move on and deal with the cards that have been dealt.

The positives coming out of this season are immense. We have a coaching staff. We have a GM. We might have a QB.


Agree.. What everyone needs to understand is the Giants aren't suppose to be 7-3. Coaching and a very very weak schedule has made that record possible. This team lack so much talent. Just look at the Eagles, Cowboys, and even the Redskins. That will show you the Giants are way behind as far as talent is concerned. As much as we want the Giants to win, they really need a good draft position in order to improve this team imo.
RE: Eric you sound like some Mets fans as they were blowing the division  
Route 9 : 11/21/2022 2:08 am : link
In comment 15916064 BigBlue565358 said:
Quote:
again. The "if I told you at the beginning of the season" crap is tired

Yes we all know they overachieved, yes we all know it's a rebuilding year. But we're allowed to be frustrated when you're 7-2 and lose to an inferior team at home, we're allowed to be frustrated by all the injuries

The "if I told you at the beginning of the season" crap is for after the season

If they beat Dallas on Thursday give Daboll the coach of the Year Award right there after the game


Good post. Agreed.
RE: Fans  
riceneggs : 11/21/2022 4:45 am : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."


Nah, the approach should be "let's try to win a superbowl..cause this is a great opportunity"

There's only 1 "complete" team in the NFC (eagles) and like 2 good teams (Dallas, vikings...maybe)

Everybody else is flawed.

In the AFC, Bills have been shaky. KC is steady, but they aren't as scary as they used to be

We have a great opportunity this year.

Other teams are going to get better in the off-season as well so we can't rely on that
RE: Fans  
Maijay : 11/21/2022 5:35 am : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."

7-3 and I'm thrilled with that record. Schoen and Daboll have done a masterful job with the team. Injuries and the lack of top flight talent can not be dismissed. I'll be happy that by seasons end we will know definitely if Jones and Barkley are our go to guys for the future.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/21/2022 5:40 am : link
7-3 & the season's over...

Again, I'd LOVE to be in a foxhole with some of the posters here.
Yes, many of us overreact...  
Kanavis : 11/21/2022 6:01 am : link
But this game really did feel like a turning point for a few reasons. The AD injury was devastating and avoidable. Detroit targeted and destroyed the replacements. Barkley looks shot and overused and the staff doesn't seem to have a game plan when he isn't dominant. Putting Lemieux in was a terrible idea. He sabotaged the first half offense. He was never that good in the first place. This is the game... On the heels of two consecutive poor games, where the coaches really came back down to earth and the injuries reached a critical mass.

Yes in the NFL everything changes each week. And at least this staff seems to lean from mistakes. But this team doesn't look like it can compete with any other team in the division. And yes. They weren't supposed to do well this year and yes they are rebuilding. I had them at 7 wins total. But who is to say that they will bave 7 wins at this point next year or the year after. It's OK to be frustrated.
RE: Fans  
Mayo2JZ : 11/21/2022 6:03 am : link
In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
are approaching this the wrong way.

It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money.

The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs.

So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."


That sound like LT..."Let's go out like a bunch of crazed dogs and have some fun"
RE: ......  
Mayo2JZ : 11/21/2022 6:15 am : link
In comment 15916042 Route 9 said:
Quote:
They got blown out by a 3 win team at home who is in the bottom 5 against the run and couldn't get Barkley going ... like I said.

Toddler? Sounds like you're the one taking it personally here with as if these guys are actually your friends and care about you resulting to name calling lol

Soft.


Hmmmm....didn't the Commanders go into Philly and beat an undefeated team? They were 5-5
RE: RE: BigBlueJ  
Mayo2JZ : 11/21/2022 6:25 am : link
In comment 15916076 prdave73 said:
Quote:
In comment 15915995 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


Agreed. But it is what it is.

You can curl up into a ball and cry about it or just move on and deal with the cards that have been dealt.

The positives coming out of this season are immense. We have a coaching staff. We have a GM. We might have a QB.



Agree.. What everyone needs to understand is the Giants aren't suppose to be 7-3. Coaching and a very very weak schedule has made that record possible. This team lack so much talent. Just look at the Eagles, Cowboys, and even the Redskins. That will show you the Giants are way behind as far as talent is concerned. As much as we want the Giants to win, they really need a good draft position in order to improve this team imo.


Spot on. Every time I watch those teams play I wonder how they acquired so much talent. They're WRs, RBs, etc. We have a ways to go
The season isn't over but the fairy tale likely is  
j_rud : 11/21/2022 6:59 am : link
Which is fine, it's a fairy tale. I feel like a lot of us knew yesterday was coming and not in a negative, lack of belief way. Scraping by each week with the thinnest margin of error and a bottom 5 roster in the NFL.

The last 2 months were a ton of fun and tbh well deserved considering recent history. The right men are at the wheel and it's headed in the right direction with some foundational pieces in place. Taking a couple on the chin won't change that, but it's likely to make things pretty unbearable around here.
I am going to do my own write up  
jvm52106 : 11/21/2022 7:10 am : link
About yesterday and going forward but, yesterday was very disappointing from play, production and injuries. It was disappointing from a stand point that what we do ( run, control, take advantage of mistakes) and what we didn't do yesterday. Watching the Lions beat us by not making mistakes, a team that is better than it's been but that isn't better than us, was a bit hard to watch. Seeing Jackson go down, Robinson go down was the salt into the wound.

I am seeing more and more parallels to 1984 and that isn't a bad thing if it is step one in our overall ascension.
RE: it's the injuries, not the loss  
5BowlsSoon : 11/21/2022 7:19 am : link
In comment 15915982 islander1 said:
Quote:
really. Losing to Detroit and being 7-3 instead of 8-2? Whatever.

but it seems we cannot get out of a single fucking game without 3 injuries to starters or more.

How the hell are we supposed to compete?


This +1
RE: The season isn't over but the fairy tale likely is  
M.S. : 11/21/2022 7:24 am : link
In comment 15916104 j_rud said:
Quote:
Which is fine, it's a fairy tale. I feel like a lot of us knew yesterday was coming and not in a negative, lack of belief way. Scraping by each week with the thinnest margin of error and a bottom 5 roster in the NFL.

The last 2 months were a ton of fun and tbh well deserved considering recent history. The right men are at the wheel and it's headed in the right direction with some foundational pieces in place. Taking a couple on the chin won't change that, but it's likely to make things pretty unbearable around here.

I agree with everything you've said here.

My one caveat is that the Giants may well have (as you put it) "a bottom 5 roster..." but it is a "bottom 5 roster" with a caveat. On defense, the Giants have at least 4 bona fide difference-makers in Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams, Adoree Jackson and Xavier McKinney. Now, of course, with Jackson and McKinney out the secondary is officially decimated. And all the snaps taken by our two very fine DTs have taken a toll as well.

On offense, I think a bottom 5 label is perhaps more accurate, but again, the Giants do have at least 2 huge difference-makers -- Saquon Barkley and Andrew Thomas.
RE: I am going to do my own write up  
M.S. : 11/21/2022 7:26 am : link
In comment 15916109 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
About yesterday and going forward but, yesterday was very disappointing from play, production and injuries. It was disappointing from a stand point that what we do ( run, control, take advantage of mistakes) and what we didn't do yesterday. Watching the Lions beat us by not making mistakes, a team that is better than it's been but that isn't better than us, was a bit hard to watch. Seeing Jackson go down, Robinson go down was the salt into the wound.

I am seeing more and more parallels to 1984 and that isn't a bad thing if it is step one in our overall ascension.

Didn't the Giants make the playoffs in 1984?
RE: I don’t know even know what House Money means  
eclipz928 : 11/21/2022 7:33 am : link
In comment 15916062 Essex said:
Quote:
with this team. The team you are seeing now might be ripped apart. The coaching has been good most of the season, that isn’t lost upon anyone, even after tonight’s deal. Not sure, though, I see a positive direction roster wise. The draft picks have underwhelmed (in part due to injury), the players who have excelled may not have a future here (Jones, Barkley etc). The problem with today and why many aren’t overreacting is that if you really look underneath the hood of 7-3, it just comes down to the Giants winning some extremely tight games (Jacksonville, Tenn, GB, Baltimore) and we could easily be 3-7. You usually are playing with “House Money” when you overachieve with your HC and young franchise QB. We don’t have that, so House Money isn’t really what I would describe as going on or some shrewd insight other than to say we aren’t a 7-3 team and we have a 7-3 record. The direction of the roster is what really concerns me and not sure we are either not starting over next season with a new QB or we are drastically overpaying for a QB and RB next season to run it back with what was a fortunate record through 10. In the final analysis, besides the fact that our coaching staff is much better than the last two, nothing about this year gives me great confidence that next year will be better than this one.

This is pretty much where I'm at. Hard to enjoy these victories this year when the offense is still struggling and it's unclear if anything is even building to something in 2023. 75% of this roster, including the QB, could very well be turned over in the offseason. It's encouraging to know that we seemingly have the right coaching staff, but there's still a long ways to go with the personnel.
I didn't like the game, the result, or the injuries  
Sec 103 : 11/21/2022 7:35 am : link
and while it does look like as tough road, it's still only one game. Short week, an infirmary ward in the making, a bad loss to the Lions, and a resurgent Cowwpukes team points to a bad loss on Thursday.
And yet I will watch every second of every game in this improbable season that was not supposed to be half as good as it has been.

Strap them on boys and go out and have a day!
I don t feel like the season is over  
joeinpa : 11/21/2022 7:39 am : link
Yesterday was a bad match up for the Giants, especially after even more injuries

Unfortunately the injuries more than the loss has put a playoff appearance in jeopardy and despite the feeling that Thursday will bring another loss, maybe a non competitive one, there is still a realistic path to the post season

Giants might get some guys back after a mini bye have time to adjust to the injuries and beat Washington

If you had told me before the season began that the Giants would be taking a big step towards the play offs if they beat Washington at home in Dec, I d be pretty excited

Fans overreact to wins and losses, they imprint the last game they saw and apply it to the rest of the season. NFL is a week to week League, this season is far from over.



eclipz928  
M.S. : 11/21/2022 7:42 am : link
About the roster, you are certainly right about the need for different players, but I think the Giants can take the next step forward with Daniel Jones at the helm. Of course, that assumes this franchise puts some sort of halt to the devastating injuries suffered year after year. And they also get their offensive line to settle down in some sort of cohesive / effective fashion. Without that happening, no amount of roster turnover (more talent) will help very much.
This was a tough one  
ambr0se201 : 11/21/2022 7:43 am : link
Especially after watching the cowboys. Just harken back to '07... I think I said the season was over multiple times.
I ws concerned about the DAL game already because McKinney out  
Victor in CT : 11/21/2022 7:47 am : link
leaves a huge hole in the 2ndary. Now if Jackson and others are out too makes it a really tall order. Add in the short week and all the injuries and it will take a Thanksgiving miracle, but stranger things have happened.

A few thoughts on yesterday:

1) I thought Jones was great. HE did everything he could.
2) Penalties just destroyed them.
3) Lemieux confirmed what I said about him before the season. He stinks. Get the other kid back hopefully Ekonzu (sorry if misspelled).
4) Peart played surprisingly well
5) Gates was a pleasant surprise and is MUCH stouter than Feliciano
6) Wandale was great before the injury. too bad
7) Slayton is what he is. Pretty good for a 5th round pick, but too inconsistent.
8) running game was a real disappointment. Maybe when Neal come back move Peart to RG a la William Roberts?
it’s not over  
hassan : 11/21/2022 7:55 am : link
there is still a good chance this team will win three to four more games. Everyone overreacts to every week, especially on BBI.

No one thought they had a chance to beat Tennessee or Baltimore or GB at beginning of season.

It’s the same for the next seven games-they are going to win games against Washington, Philly, Minnesota, or Indy - it’s hard to tell which ones. I don’t think they are going to win against Dallas, but who knows?

House money is right-they are ahead of schedule.
House money means enjoy the 2022 season for what it is  
JonC : 11/21/2022 7:57 am : link
The 2023 Giants will look significantly different, as will the 2024 Giants. That's the NFL lifecycle : super short. If you're paying attention, you're starting to see a core of talent develop. You're watching a head coach and staff do a very good job teaching and preparing a team to play beyond its collective talent level. After the season, we need to see them and the GM find the QB, make the right personnel and cap decisions, and hopefully 2022 is the beginning of the ascent.

Being disappointed now after a loss is ok, but to me the proper perspective is they're still ahead of the game and a playoff spot is there to be had. Even at 7-5 they'll be in the wildcard hunt. 10-7 and a wildcard exceeds all expectations for 2022, keep it in perspective given the rebuild is one year old and the past handful of Giants teams couldn't defeat a paper bag.
One silver lining:. with all the secondary injuries,  
BigBlueNH : 11/21/2022 7:59 am : link
we are getting a longer look at youngsters like Flott, McCloud, Belton and Pinnock. And they are getting valuable playing time. It may cost us some games this year, but taking Eric's long-term view, I really like how our secondary is shaping up. Strengthen our ILBs, and we could have a top-tier D next year.
RE: it’s not over  
M.S. : 11/21/2022 8:03 am : link
In comment 15916131 hassan said:
Quote:
there is still a good chance this team will win three to four more games. Everyone overreacts to every week, especially on BBI.

No one thought they had a chance to beat Tennessee or Baltimore or GB at beginning of season.

It’s the same for the next seven games-they are going to win games against Washington, Philly, Minnesota, or Indy - it’s hard to tell which ones. I don’t think they are going to win against Dallas, but who knows?

House money is right-they are ahead of schedule.


Are you perhaps mixing apples and oranges?

When the Giants beat TN, GB and BALT they were a lot less banged up than they are this morning. If Adoree Jackson is out for 3-5 games, you can label the secondary officially "decimated." And as for the WR unit, no need for any qualifications. It IS decimated. Under these conditions, I'm not sure how you can feel that, "...there is still a good chance this team will win three to four more games."

And that's not an over-reaction.
RE: House money means enjoy the 2022 season for what it is  
Victor in CT : 11/21/2022 8:06 am : link
In comment 15916135 JonC said:
Quote:
The 2023 Giants will look significantly different, as will the 2024 Giants. That's the NFL lifecycle : super short. If you're paying attention, you're starting to see a core of talent develop. You're watching a head coach and staff do a very good job teaching and preparing a team to play beyond its collective talent level. After the season, we need to see them and the GM find the QB, make the right personnel and cap decisions, and hopefully 2022 is the beginning of the ascent.

Being disappointed now after a loss is ok, but to me the proper perspective is they're still ahead of the game and a playoff spot is there to be had. Even at 7-5 they'll be in the wildcard hunt. 10-7 and a wildcard exceeds all expectations for 2022, keep it in perspective given the rebuild is one year old and the past handful of Giants teams couldn't defeat a paper bag.


well said JonC.
ooops  
M.S. : 11/21/2022 8:11 am : link

hit the return too fast.

Meant to say:

And that's not an over-reaction (on my part.)
The secondary is in shambles  
Costy16 : 11/21/2022 8:13 am : link
Having Jackson return punts was an extremely poor decision by Daboll when you consider that McKinney is already out numerous weeks. This probably one of the few, but the absolute worst decision he has made this year. The secondary is now down Jackson, McKinney and likely Fabian Moreau for Thursday.

This drastically changes what Wink can do. The freedom to blitz isn't there because there are a bunch of mediocre players on the back end now. The Giants got gashed on the ground again yesterday as well and they likely will when they play Dallas Thursday.

The injury to McKinney seemed like a sign of things unraveling on defense.
Giants are in shambles, there's no way around that fact  
JonC : 11/21/2022 8:17 am : link
due to the injuries, and the lack of talent at some spots. It is what it is, and they're still in a good spot. 9 wins might be a wildcard spot given how the NFC is trending, and that in itself is a win for the franchise. At 6-1, I said 10 wins would be a challenge for this roster, it's still true.

YMMV, but while the warts etc are obvious it's still been a fun season to see them right the ship and give us hope for the future.
If the Giants go 3-4  
ajr2456 : 11/21/2022 8:23 am : link
With a win coming over Washington they’d in all likelihood be in the playoffs. That would require Washington going 5-0 in their remaining games and Detroit going 6-1. I’m not sure about tiebreakers with Atlanta but they’d also have to 6-1 for it to even come down to tie breakers.

They still even have a good chance of getting in going 2-5 if both wins are against Washington.
If you were to try and tell me  
antdog24 : 11/21/2022 8:33 am : link
before the season that we would be playing meaningful football deep into November/December I would have laughed in your face. Can we just enjoy what we've built to this point and if we don't make the playoffs, get excited for what this coaching staff can do when it acquires some actual talent?
RE: House money means enjoy the 2022 season for what it is  
Sean : 11/21/2022 8:37 am : link
In comment 15916135 JonC said:
Quote:
The 2023 Giants will look significantly different, as will the 2024 Giants. That's the NFL lifecycle : super short. If you're paying attention, you're starting to see a core of talent develop. You're watching a head coach and staff do a very good job teaching and preparing a team to play beyond its collective talent level. After the season, we need to see them and the GM find the QB, make the right personnel and cap decisions, and hopefully 2022 is the beginning of the ascent.

Being disappointed now after a loss is ok, but to me the proper perspective is they're still ahead of the game and a playoff spot is there to be had. Even at 7-5 they'll be in the wildcard hunt. 10-7 and a wildcard exceeds all expectations for 2022, keep it in perspective given the rebuild is one year old and the past handful of Giants teams couldn't defeat a paper bag.

This is a great post, Jon.
Holy shit, we know what the "proper perspective" is  
BigBlue565358 : 11/21/2022 8:45 am : link
we know its been an unlikely fun season (before yesterday)

Again, the "proper perspective its a rebuilding year" is like the "if I told you before the season" - its for AFTER the season

If you werent pissed off after yesterday's loss, then you just arent emotionally invested in this season

If you arent thinking "damn, with all these injuries wins are going to be hard to come by and we may miss the playoffs after a 7-2 start, and that would be real disappointing" then you didnt care to begin with

And maybe you didnt care, and thats fine. But again, this is like the 1981 season, and it meant a ton to finally make the playoffs
RE: RE: I don’t know even know what House Money means  
Essex : 11/21/2022 8:48 am : link
In comment 15916116 eclipz928 said:
Quote:
In comment 15916062 Essex said:


Quote:


with this team. The team you are seeing now might be ripped apart. The coaching has been good most of the season, that isn’t lost upon anyone, even after tonight’s deal. Not sure, though, I see a positive direction roster wise. The draft picks have underwhelmed (in part due to injury), the players who have excelled may not have a future here (Jones, Barkley etc). The problem with today and why many aren’t overreacting is that if you really look underneath the hood of 7-3, it just comes down to the Giants winning some extremely tight games (Jacksonville, Tenn, GB, Baltimore) and we could easily be 3-7. You usually are playing with “House Money” when you overachieve with your HC and young franchise QB. We don’t have that, so House Money isn’t really what I would describe as going on or some shrewd insight other than to say we aren’t a 7-3 team and we have a 7-3 record. The direction of the roster is what really concerns me and not sure we are either not starting over next season with a new QB or we are drastically overpaying for a QB and RB next season to run it back with what was a fortunate record through 10. In the final analysis, besides the fact that our coaching staff is much better than the last two, nothing about this year gives me great confidence that next year will be better than this one.


This is pretty much where I'm at. Hard to enjoy these victories this year when the offense is still struggling and it's unclear if anything is even building to something in 2023. 75% of this roster, including the QB, could very well be turned over in the offseason. It's encouraging to know that we seemingly have the right coaching staff, but there's still a long ways to go with the personnel.

I can enjoy it this year but at the same time know that this is basically a one year deal thing. Wan’Dale has had three injuries now in the course of the season and most likely has a significant knee injury. Neal has been up and down, Kavon has one sack. We have no idea what we are doing with Barkley and Jones with really no good decisions out there for those two. If the NFL is super short life cycle like I just read, the QB position isn’t and is a key indicator of success in this league. What is our core an LT, a stud DT, and and two safeties. And right now we don’t have one. Daboll is a good coach, but you need a good roster in this league to sustain success. Schoen may well be great but he hasnt impressed me nearly as much as Daboll has.
RE: Giants are in shambles, there's no way around that fact  
gidiefor : Mod : 11/21/2022 8:52 am : link
In comment 15916160 JonC said:
Quote:
due to the injuries, and the lack of talent at some spots. It is what it is, and they're still in a good spot. 9 wins might be a wildcard spot given how the NFC is trending, and that in itself is a win for the franchise. At 6-1, I said 10 wins would be a challenge for this roster, it's still true.

YMMV, but while the warts etc are obvious it's still been a fun season to see them right the ship and give us hope for the future.


Jon -- a winning record is a win for the franchise period --
MS  
hassan : 11/21/2022 8:53 am : link
I’m not mixing anything. We don’t know how its going to play out.

The easiest thing to do is look at the schedule and try to predict victories. They won those games without contributions from WR we thought were going to be a big part of the offense.

I would not have predicted the Giants would have run four road wins in 07 either in the playoffs. In particular given how Eli had played going into playoffs.
Expectations before the season were low,  
Simms11 : 11/21/2022 8:58 am : link
as expected with the roster that we all thought was poor, to having a new Head Coach and scheme, etc, however this team changed that narrative 9 games into the season and it has been a fun wild ride. That said, expectations change as you show success. I think most on here are pretty damn tired of losing over the past decade, with 2016 as an outlier. And so once this team showed that it could be successful, even by slim margins, expectations changed and now fans tend to react differently then if the team was 3-7 at this point, which would have been expected back in August. I know they’ve talked about this as a rebuild, but also talked about still winning and being competitive even going through a rebuild process. I would now be pretty disappointed if they didn’t make the playoffs, but reality is this team playing with third stringers and PS players now. From here on out it’s going to be very tough sledding and so we’ll definitely see what this team is made of.
The Giants got my hopes up, so I was disappointed with the loss  
mikeinbloomfield : 11/21/2022 9:07 am : link
yesterday, but all we have to remember is we are not supposed to be winning all these games anyway. This roster looks nothing like the roster that will win the next super bowl, and next year the roster is going to be "worse" in that we will have less proven talent and more young talent, which will take some time to get good.

As everyone has said, house money. That doesn't mean I don't care that we win or lose, but after the game is over we have to keep things in perspective. Also, part of this "losing" feeling is you know we're going to get housed on Thanksgiving.
The reason why this is not house money is because  
Essex : 11/21/2022 9:38 am : link
this is not a rebuilding year. People keep saying that, but we are going to draft somewhere between 16-22, we have open questions about our two most important offensive players and if they will return and our building blocks besides Andrew Thomas and Dexter are not plentiful. Again, I am happy with the result, but this feels more the 1993 (a surprisingly good season with many players who contributed won't be here next season) than 1981 (where we had Qbs that would be here and the best edge rusher the NFL ever saw). NO QB of the future on the roster and next year will be worse than this year in all likelihood as 94 (and 95 and 96) was with 93.
It's sort of true that this is not a rebuilding year.  
Jerry in_DC : 11/21/2022 9:42 am : link
This is year zero. Next year is year one. This year was about flushing as much of Gettlemans trash as possible and getting some development for our young players. We happened to win a bunch of games along the way.

This year was the demo day. The rebuild actually starts next year.
House money is a loser's mentality  
Matt M. : 11/21/2022 9:43 am : link
Sure, the expectations were low before the season. That goes out the window when you have a first half like they did. At 7-3, I want more. I have a ton of faith in this coaching staff and I believe as some guys get healthy, they will continue to find ways to win some games, including one or two nobody expects them to. I still expect 10 wins and a playoff spot, same as before yesterday's game.

Neal should be back. Beelinger should be back. Gates seems back. Maybe Lemieux or Bredeson at RG completes what can be a solid OL, Barkley gets some holes again, and this team surprises some people.
RE: The reason why this is not house money is because  
BigBlue565358 : 11/21/2022 10:03 am : link
In comment 15916295 Essex said:
Quote:
this is not a rebuilding year. People keep saying that, but we are going to draft somewhere between 16-22, we have open questions about our two most important offensive players and if they will return and our building blocks besides Andrew Thomas and Dexter are not plentiful. Again, I am happy with the result, but this feels more the 1993 (a surprisingly good season with many players who contributed won't be here next season) than 1981 (where we had Qbs that would be here and the best edge rusher the NFL ever saw). NO QB of the future on the roster and next year will be worse than this year in all likelihood as 94 (and 95 and 96) was with 93.

I disagree with 93. That team had many Super Bowl players on it, coaching was the issue. So it wasnt a surprise they had a good season after the coaching change

81 featured Scott Brunner as QB, a run first team with lousy WRs, and a defense that had a rookie LT with solid veterans. And what preceded it was 18 years of lousy football - similar to this current stretch
You guys lead with your hearts, and that's ok.  
JonC : 11/21/2022 10:14 am : link
Yesterday was a bad game, it happens. I know what this team is, and I said last week I wouldn't be the least bit surprised by a loss to the Lions, that scoring 21 probably wouldn't be enough. It's about expectations. This team, for the most part, as currently constructed are surpassing mine. I wouldn't be surprised if they're 7-5 two weeks from now. YMMV.
RE: It's sort of true that this is not a rebuilding year.  
M.S. : 11/21/2022 10:15 am : link
In comment 15916308 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
This is year zero. Next year is year one. This year was about flushing as much of Gettlemans trash as possible and getting some development for our young players. We happened to win a bunch of games along the way.

This year was the demo day. The rebuild actually starts next year.

Probably all true, but it would be quite a nice sweetener if the Year One rebuild NEXT year came off of a demo season in which the team somehow made it into the playoffs!
RE: RE: The reason why this is not house money is because  
Essex : 11/21/2022 10:15 am : link
In comment 15916388 BigBlue565358 said:
Quote:
In comment 15916295 Essex said:


Quote:


this is not a rebuilding year. People keep saying that, but we are going to draft somewhere between 16-22, we have open questions about our two most important offensive players and if they will return and our building blocks besides Andrew Thomas and Dexter are not plentiful. Again, I am happy with the result, but this feels more the 1993 (a surprisingly good season with many players who contributed won't be here next season) than 1981 (where we had Qbs that would be here and the best edge rusher the NFL ever saw). NO QB of the future on the roster and next year will be worse than this year in all likelihood as 94 (and 95 and 96) was with 93.


I disagree with 93. That team had many Super Bowl players on it, coaching was the issue. So it wasnt a surprise they had a good season after the coaching change

81 featured Scott Brunner as QB, a run first team with lousy WRs, and a defense that had a rookie LT with solid veterans. And what preceded it was 18 years of lousy football - similar to this current stretch

The basic premise was that in 1993 we were propelled by Simms, who would never play for the Giants again. This year it is Barkley (who will be back) and Jones (who very well might not be back). We had building blocks in 93. We had Hampton and Strahan and more. 81 was LT, the offensive line, and even though Simms got hurt he was the building block that when he became the full time starter in 84 we took off.
6-1 or 7-3  
JonC : 11/21/2022 10:27 am : link
doesn't mean they're destined to win 12 or 14 games, how many NFL seasons have you watched where the Giants (insert any team here) have faded in the second half? Especially with the injuries, better competition, division games in a strong season. Plenty of variables to consider.
You're not understanding the emotional part of it  
BigBlue565358 : 11/21/2022 10:29 am : link
Of not, for some of us, having ever made the playoffs before 1981. Of coming off years of lousy football instead of 2 Super Bowl wins
You're not understanding the emotional part of it  
BigBlue565358 : 11/21/2022 10:29 am : link
Of not, for some of us, having ever made the playoffs before 1981. Of coming off years of lousy football instead of 2 Super Bowl wins
Jon  
BigBlue565358 : 11/21/2022 10:32 am : link
We all know what this team is. What's the point of being a fan if you're always non emotional?

We all know the perspective, we all know what this team is. If you cant put your emotions and heart into a surprise playoff run, then why be a fan?
Just have fun  
Paulie Walnuts : 11/21/2022 10:34 am : link
Play loose look back on the first 3 games we did lots of weird stuff to get what talent we have on the field like 3 running backs.. etc...
RE: 6-1 or 7-3  
BigBlue7 : 11/21/2022 10:34 am : link
In comment 15916455 JonC said:
Quote:
doesn't mean they're destined to win 12 or 14 games, how many NFL seasons have you watched where the Giants (insert any team here) have faded in the second half? Especially with the injuries, better competition, division games in a strong season. Plenty of variables to consider.


Right?

I mean we all knew that this team was only beginning the rebuilding and re-shaping this year.

We win some games, some one here incorrectly change their expectations, we lose some games, and now it is a disappointment that we won't be playing in the Super Bowl.

JFC
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/21/2022 10:36 am : link
Not making the playoffs after 7-2 would be disappointing. 9 wins probably makes the playoffs, 10 almost certainly does. Not being able to go 2-6 to make the playoffs would suck.
Who are you? I sense a dupe  
JonC : 11/21/2022 10:36 am : link
Of course I understand the emotional aspect, I was annoyed yesterday. Then I switched focus to the Cowboys. From where I sit, it's not a loss worth dwelling on, all factors considered.
RE: Jon  
BigBlue7 : 11/21/2022 10:38 am : link
In comment 15916469 BigBlue565358 said:
Quote:
We all know what this team is. What's the point of being a fan if you're always non emotional?

We all know the perspective, we all know what this team is. If you cant put your emotions and heart into a surprise playoff run, then why be a fan?


Being a fan doesn't mean being delusional
RE: Who are you? I sense a dupe  
BrettNYG10 : 11/21/2022 10:39 am : link
In comment 15916481 JonC said:
Quote:
Of course I understand the emotional aspect, I was annoyed yesterday. Then I switched focus to the Cowboys. From where I sit, it's not a loss worth dwelling on, all factors considered.


BigBlue565358 = snablats
...  
BrettNYG10 : 11/21/2022 10:41 am : link
I thought this team would suck again - I think I said 5-7 wins to start the year - but after 7-2, I thought they only needed to win two or three more to make it. Once the prospect of a top pick was off the table this season sort of sucks if we can't make it.
When they lose, season's over  
TheEvilLurker : 11/21/2022 10:42 am : link
When they win, world championship.

"I don't know why I go to extremes..."
Love Barkley, but I'd be shopping for a Herschel Walker deal with him  
x meadowlander : 11/21/2022 10:43 am : link
I agree with the 1981 comparisons, FWIW. Not exactly on personnel or team personality, but the VIBE.

The feeling of hopelessness with a franchise that had become a laughingstock, of wasting draft picks, bad trades, poor management hires - it's all there.


Now, what 81 had that this team does not is a fucking UPSET WIN AGAINST DALLAS. That team was banged up too, had a great running back wearing #26, did not score a ton of points. Brunner was in because Simms was injured.

As with 81, turnovers are what win and lose games like Dallas.
I'm not a dupe  
BigBlue565358 : 11/21/2022 10:44 am : link
I was forced to change my handle

And I'm not delusional, and I don't believe most people here are being delusional

I have said repeatedly that we all know what this team is. So stop telling us about perspective, because we all have it already

RE: The reason why this is not house money is because  
rsjem1979 : 11/21/2022 10:46 am : link
In comment 15916295 Essex said:
Quote:
this is not a rebuilding year. People keep saying that, but we are going to draft somewhere between 16-22, we have open questions about our two most important offensive players and if they will return and our building blocks besides Andrew Thomas and Dexter are not plentiful. Again, I am happy with the result, but this feels more the 1993 (a surprisingly good season with many players who contributed won't be here next season) than 1981 (where we had Qbs that would be here and the best edge rusher the NFL ever saw). NO QB of the future on the roster and next year will be worse than this year in all likelihood as 94 (and 95 and 96) was with 93.


Feels like 1997 to me, but I definitely share the belief that it's going to get worse before it gets better.

-New first time coach
-No QB of the future (Jones playing the Brown/Kanell role)
-Fairly stout defense
-Lot of close wins against a relatively easy schedule
-Big game with Washington looming with 7-4 record (after obvious loss in Dallas on Thurs)

Best case scenario right now feels like finishing this year 10-7, probably losing the playoff game, then going to work on continuing to rebuild the roster, including finding a QB.
RE: Who are you? I sense a dupe  
Victor in CT : 11/21/2022 10:46 am : link
In comment 15916481 JonC said:
Quote:
Of course I understand the emotional aspect, I was annoyed yesterday. Then I switched focus to the Cowboys. From where I sit, it's not a loss worth dwelling on, all factors considered.


Agree.

I switched to WKRP THanksgiving show on MeTV for a few minutes just for a laugh. "God as my witness, I thought turkeys could fly." Mr. Carlson LOL
I respect Jon's view about house money  
Essex : 11/21/2022 11:19 am : link
i just disagree with it given the state of our roster. But, I respect it. I assume he, like all of us, has the emotion that if the Giants play we root for them to win and really do not think of the big picture until its over. Because I disagree with his view of the bigger picture, doesn't mean he isnt right. I just think that House Money means something to me and for the reasons I have articulated in this threat I do not see the season that way. Not because we are actually good, but because this is just not a team that is set up for success next season or maybe even in the season after that and this season is kind of a one-off deal where we are messing with the future draft picks etc and Schoen's first draft with so many prospects seems like an incomplete at best at this point.
Dupe  
JonC : 11/21/2022 11:20 am : link
Do us both a favor and don't read me. I'm not changing for you, buster.
Essex  
JonC : 11/21/2022 11:25 am : link
We're not that far off. We can only go by what we know now, and how the next offseason progresses. What you're looking for is a crystal ball, so again it's how you choose to look at the situation.

One of the hardest things to do in the NFL is find good coaches, who scheme, teach, and motivate well. I'm a little more concerned with their draft philosophy, but now with the previous regime out of there it will hopefully look different.
RE: RE: House money means enjoy the 2022 season for what it is  
Joe Beckwith : 11/21/2022 11:54 am : link
In comment 15916147 Victor in CT said:
Quote:
In comment 15916135 JonC said:


Quote:


The 2023 Giants will look significantly different, as will the 2024 Giants. That's the NFL lifecycle : super short. If you're paying attention, you're starting to see a core of talent develop. You're watching a head coach and staff do a very good job teaching and preparing a team to play beyond its collective talent level. After the season, we need to see them and the GM find the QB, make the right personnel and cap decisions, and hopefully 2022 is the beginning of the ascent.

Being disappointed now after a loss is ok, but to me the proper perspective is they're still ahead of the game and a playoff spot is there to be had. Even at 7-5 they'll be in the wildcard hunt. 10-7 and a wildcard exceeds all expectations for 2022, keep it in perspective given the rebuild is one year old and the past handful of Giants teams couldn't defeat a paper bag.



well said JonC.


+1
In a combination of various posts, that’s what I’ve been saying.
Given the 7 wins, I think about what we could have done with a healthy draft class from day 1, and also especially a healthy and focused receiver corp: KG, SS, WR, DS, even KT. I’m guessing 9-1 and a few Ws not nearly as close as the end.
Over: No. With all the injuries, key ones,
Just more challenging.
I think we can get 2 more wins, making it at least a winning season.

Jon C  
Larry in Pencilvania : 11/21/2022 12:02 pm : link
Everything you've posted is spot on. This year is the beginning of something special. This is 1981 or 2006 where something is being built with continuity and winning to come.
They got the coach right and there are some building blocks in place. Hell guys that seemed to be written off are gaming and are exceeding expectations. This team is learning how to win and that is better than a higher draft pick

Happy Thanksgiving to you and your family
Too much "emotional investment" as it is.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/21/2022 12:06 pm : link
At a certain point it short circuits the brain and you cease to be a rational thinking person.

The Giants started hot, and are now cooling off. Peaking at the wrong time sometimes happens.

All of us would have taken 7 wins before thanksgiving. Some had 7 wins as the goal of the season. Forgetting that this was a rebuilding roster though is kinda on you.
TTH, good post  
JonC : 11/21/2022 4:09 pm : link
Larry, Happy Thanksgiving to you.
I started thinking about this from the offensive side, anyway  
Matt M. : 11/21/2022 4:52 pm : link
The conventional wisdom has been that we are doomed without Robinson because of his 100 yard performance yesterday. But, the reality is, we have barely seen him this year. First he was hurt and since coming back, he has been mostly an afterthought. He has certainly shown a flash here or there. But, he has not been a focal point of our offense. So, maybe not the devastating loss it appears to be?
......  
Route 9 : 11/22/2022 7:26 pm : link
That's not Snablets.

He's another one of the many who gives the "you have no reason whatsoever to complain/you're spoiled" lecture. The same one that my grandma (who was born 1906) would give.

He was pulling that garbage with discussions about the New York Rangers hockey team. How anybody would be spoiled following that garbage franchise is beyond me. But there's a first for everything, I guess.
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