Why does it feel like the season is over?

7-3 & the season's over...

Again, I'd LOVE to be in a foxhole with some of the posters here.

But this game really did feel like a turning point for a few reasons. The AD injury was devastating and avoidable. Detroit targeted and destroyed the replacements. Barkley looks shot and overused and the staff doesn't seem to have a game plan when he isn't dominant. Putting Lemieux in was a terrible idea. He sabotaged the first half offense. He was never that good in the first place. This is the game... On the heels of two consecutive poor games, where the coaches really came back down to earth and the injuries reached a critical mass.

Yes in the NFL everything changes each week. And at least this staff seems to lean from mistakes. But this team doesn't look like it can compete with any other team in the division. And yes. They weren't supposed to do well this year and yes they are rebuilding. I had them at 7 wins total. But who is to say that they will bave 7 wins at this point next year or the year after. It's OK to be frustrated.

In comment 15915986 Eric from BBI said:

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are approaching this the wrong way. It's like JonC said weeks ago, we're playing with house money. The Giants are not supposed to be 7-3. This is a rebuilding year. They aren't going to the Super Bowl even if they make the playoffs. So the approach at this point should be, "No pressure. Let's have some fun and if we pull off some upsets and wreck someone else's season, let's do it. We're trying to grow as a team and we'll get better in the offseason. Let's go down to Dallas and just have some fun."

That sound like LT..."Let's go out like a bunch of crazed dogs and have some fun"

In comment 15916042 Route 9 said:

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They got blown out by a 3 win team at home who is in the bottom 5 against the run and couldn't get Barkley going ... like I said. Toddler? Sounds like you're the one taking it personally here with as if these guys are actually your friends and care about you resulting to name calling lol Soft.

Hmmmm....didn't the Commanders go into Philly and beat an undefeated team? They were 5-5

In comment 15916076 prdave73 said:

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In comment 15915995 Eric from BBI said: Quote: Agreed. But it is what it is. You can curl up into a ball and cry about it or just move on and deal with the cards that have been dealt. The positives coming out of this season are immense. We have a coaching staff. We have a GM. We might have a QB. Agree.. What everyone needs to understand is the Giants aren't suppose to be 7-3. Coaching and a very very weak schedule has made that record possible. This team lack so much talent. Just look at the Eagles, Cowboys, and even the Redskins. That will show you the Giants are way behind as far as talent is concerned. As much as we want the Giants to win, they really need a good draft position in order to improve this team imo.

Spot on. Every time I watch those teams play I wonder how they acquired so much talent. They're WRs, RBs, etc. We have a ways to go

Which is fine, it's a fairy tale. I feel like a lot of us knew yesterday was coming and not in a negative, lack of belief way. Scraping by each week with the thinnest margin of error and a bottom 5 roster in the NFL.

The last 2 months were a ton of fun and tbh well deserved considering recent history. The right men are at the wheel and it's headed in the right direction with some foundational pieces in place. Taking a couple on the chin won't change that, but it's likely to make things pretty unbearable around here.

About yesterday and going forward but, yesterday was very disappointing from play, production and injuries. It was disappointing from a stand point that what we do ( run, control, take advantage of mistakes) and what we didn't do yesterday. Watching the Lions beat us by not making mistakes, a team that is better than it's been but that isn't better than us, was a bit hard to watch. Seeing Jackson go down, Robinson go down was the salt into the wound.

I am seeing more and more parallels to 1984 and that isn't a bad thing if it is step one in our overall ascension.

In comment 15915982 islander1 said:

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really. Losing to Detroit and being 7-3 instead of 8-2? Whatever. but it seems we cannot get out of a single fucking game without 3 injuries to starters or more. How the hell are we supposed to compete?

This +1

In comment 15916104 j_rud said:

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Which is fine, it's a fairy tale. I feel like a lot of us knew yesterday was coming and not in a negative, lack of belief way. Scraping by each week with the thinnest margin of error and a bottom 5 roster in the NFL. The last 2 months were a ton of fun and tbh well deserved considering recent history. The right men are at the wheel and it's headed in the right direction with some foundational pieces in place. Taking a couple on the chin won't change that, but it's likely to make things pretty unbearable around here.

I agree with everything you've said here.

My one caveat is that the Giants may well have (as you put it) "a bottom 5 roster..." but it is a "bottom 5 roster" with a caveat. On defense, the Giants have at least 4 bona fide difference-makers in Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams, Adoree Jackson and Xavier McKinney. Now, of course, with Jackson and McKinney out the secondary is officially decimated. And all the snaps taken by our two very fine DTs have taken a toll as well.

On offense, I think a bottom 5 label is perhaps more accurate, but again, the Giants do have at least 2 huge difference-makers -- Saquon Barkley and Andrew Thomas.

In comment 15916109 jvm52106 said:

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About yesterday and going forward but, yesterday was very disappointing from play, production and injuries. It was disappointing from a stand point that what we do ( run, control, take advantage of mistakes) and what we didn't do yesterday. Watching the Lions beat us by not making mistakes, a team that is better than it's been but that isn't better than us, was a bit hard to watch. Seeing Jackson go down, Robinson go down was the salt into the wound. I am seeing more and more parallels to 1984 and that isn't a bad thing if it is step one in our overall ascension.

Didn't the Giants make the playoffs in 1984?

In comment 15916062 Essex said:

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with this team. The team you are seeing now might be ripped apart. The coaching has been good most of the season, that isn’t lost upon anyone, even after tonight’s deal. Not sure, though, I see a positive direction roster wise. The draft picks have underwhelmed (in part due to injury), the players who have excelled may not have a future here (Jones, Barkley etc). The problem with today and why many aren’t overreacting is that if you really look underneath the hood of 7-3, it just comes down to the Giants winning some extremely tight games (Jacksonville, Tenn, GB, Baltimore) and we could easily be 3-7. You usually are playing with “House Money” when you overachieve with your HC and young franchise QB. We don’t have that, so House Money isn’t really what I would describe as going on or some shrewd insight other than to say we aren’t a 7-3 team and we have a 7-3 record. The direction of the roster is what really concerns me and not sure we are either not starting over next season with a new QB or we are drastically overpaying for a QB and RB next season to run it back with what was a fortunate record through 10. In the final analysis, besides the fact that our coaching staff is much better than the last two, nothing about this year gives me great confidence that next year will be better than this one.

This is pretty much where I'm at. Hard to enjoy these victories this year when the offense is still struggling and it's unclear if anything is even building to something in 2023. 75% of this roster, including the QB, could very well be turned over in the offseason. It's encouraging to know that we seemingly have the right coaching staff, but there's still a long ways to go with the personnel.

and while it does look like as tough road, it's still only one game. Short week, an infirmary ward in the making, a bad loss to the Lions, and a resurgent Cowwpukes team points to a bad loss on Thursday.
And yet I will watch every second of every game in this improbable season that was not supposed to be half as good as it has been.

Strap them on boys and go out and have a day!

Yesterday was a bad match up for the Giants, especially after even more injuries

Unfortunately the injuries more than the loss has put a playoff appearance in jeopardy and despite the feeling that Thursday will bring another loss, maybe a non competitive one, there is still a realistic path to the post season

Giants might get some guys back after a mini bye have time to adjust to the injuries and beat Washington

If you had told me before the season began that the Giants would be taking a big step towards the play offs if they beat Washington at home in Dec, I d be pretty excited

Fans overreact to wins and losses, they imprint the last game they saw and apply it to the rest of the season. NFL is a week to week League, this season is far from over.

About the roster, you are certainly right about the need for different players, but I think the Giants can take the next step forward with Daniel Jones at the helm. Of course, that assumes this franchise puts some sort of halt to the devastating injuries suffered year after year. And they also get their offensive line to settle down in some sort of cohesive / effective fashion. Without that happening, no amount of roster turnover (more talent) will help very much.

Especially after watching the cowboys. Just harken back to '07... I think I said the season was over multiple times.

leaves a huge hole in the 2ndary. Now if Jackson and others are out too makes it a really tall order. Add in the short week and all the injuries and it will take a Thanksgiving miracle, but stranger things have happened.

A few thoughts on yesterday:

1) I thought Jones was great. HE did everything he could.
2) Penalties just destroyed them.
3) Lemieux confirmed what I said about him before the season. He stinks. Get the other kid back hopefully Ekonzu (sorry if misspelled).
4) Peart played surprisingly well
5) Gates was a pleasant surprise and is MUCH stouter than Feliciano
6) Wandale was great before the injury. too bad
7) Slayton is what he is. Pretty good for a 5th round pick, but too inconsistent.
8) running game was a real disappointment. Maybe when Neal come back move Peart to RG a la William Roberts?

there is still a good chance this team will win three to four more games. Everyone overreacts to every week, especially on BBI.

No one thought they had a chance to beat Tennessee or Baltimore or GB at beginning of season.

It’s the same for the next seven games-they are going to win games against Washington, Philly, Minnesota, or Indy - it’s hard to tell which ones. I don’t think they are going to win against Dallas, but who knows?

House money is right-they are ahead of schedule.

The 2023 Giants will look significantly different, as will the 2024 Giants. That's the NFL lifecycle : super short. If you're paying attention, you're starting to see a core of talent develop. You're watching a head coach and staff do a very good job teaching and preparing a team to play beyond its collective talent level. After the season, we need to see them and the GM find the QB, make the right personnel and cap decisions, and hopefully 2022 is the beginning of the ascent.

Being disappointed now after a loss is ok, but to me the proper perspective is they're still ahead of the game and a playoff spot is there to be had. Even at 7-5 they'll be in the wildcard hunt. 10-7 and a wildcard exceeds all expectations for 2022, keep it in perspective given the rebuild is one year old and the past handful of Giants teams couldn't defeat a paper bag.

we are getting a longer look at youngsters like Flott, McCloud, Belton and Pinnock. And they are getting valuable playing time. It may cost us some games this year, but taking Eric's long-term view, I really like how our secondary is shaping up. Strengthen our ILBs, and we could have a top-tier D next year.

In comment 15916131 hassan said:

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there is still a good chance this team will win three to four more games. Everyone overreacts to every week, especially on BBI. No one thought they had a chance to beat Tennessee or Baltimore or GB at beginning of season. It’s the same for the next seven games-they are going to win games against Washington, Philly, Minnesota, or Indy - it’s hard to tell which ones. I don’t think they are going to win against Dallas, but who knows? House money is right-they are ahead of schedule.

Are you perhaps mixing apples and oranges?

When the Giants beat TN, GB and BALT they were a lot less banged up than they are this morning. If Adoree Jackson is out for 3-5 games, you can label the secondary officially "decimated." And as for the WR unit, no need for any qualifications. It IS decimated. Under these conditions, I'm not sure how you can feel that, "...there is still a good chance this team will win three to four more games."

And that's not an over-reaction.

In comment 15916135 JonC said:

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The 2023 Giants will look significantly different, as will the 2024 Giants. That's the NFL lifecycle : super short. If you're paying attention, you're starting to see a core of talent develop. You're watching a head coach and staff do a very good job teaching and preparing a team to play beyond its collective talent level. After the season, we need to see them and the GM find the QB, make the right personnel and cap decisions, and hopefully 2022 is the beginning of the ascent. Being disappointed now after a loss is ok, but to me the proper perspective is they're still ahead of the game and a playoff spot is there to be had. Even at 7-5 they'll be in the wildcard hunt. 10-7 and a wildcard exceeds all expectations for 2022, keep it in perspective given the rebuild is one year old and the past handful of Giants teams couldn't defeat a paper bag.

well said JonC.

hit the return too fast.

Meant to say:

And that's not an over-reaction (on my part.)

Having Jackson return punts was an extremely poor decision by Daboll when you consider that McKinney is already out numerous weeks. This probably one of the few, but the absolute worst decision he has made this year. The secondary is now down Jackson, McKinney and likely Fabian Moreau for Thursday.

This drastically changes what Wink can do. The freedom to blitz isn't there because there are a bunch of mediocre players on the back end now. The Giants got gashed on the ground again yesterday as well and they likely will when they play Dallas Thursday.

The injury to McKinney seemed like a sign of things unraveling on defense.

due to the injuries, and the lack of talent at some spots. It is what it is, and they're still in a good spot. 9 wins might be a wildcard spot given how the NFC is trending, and that in itself is a win for the franchise. At 6-1, I said 10 wins would be a challenge for this roster, it's still true.

YMMV, but while the warts etc are obvious it's still been a fun season to see them right the ship and give us hope for the future.

With a win coming over Washington they’d in all likelihood be in the playoffs. That would require Washington going 5-0 in their remaining games and Detroit going 6-1. I’m not sure about tiebreakers with Atlanta but they’d also have to 6-1 for it to even come down to tie breakers.

They still even have a good chance of getting in going 2-5 if both wins are against Washington.

before the season that we would be playing meaningful football deep into November/December I would have laughed in your face. Can we just enjoy what we've built to this point and if we don't make the playoffs, get excited for what this coaching staff can do when it acquires some actual talent?

In comment 15916135 JonC said:

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The 2023 Giants will look significantly different, as will the 2024 Giants. That's the NFL lifecycle : super short. If you're paying attention, you're starting to see a core of talent develop. You're watching a head coach and staff do a very good job teaching and preparing a team to play beyond its collective talent level. After the season, we need to see them and the GM find the QB, make the right personnel and cap decisions, and hopefully 2022 is the beginning of the ascent. Being disappointed now after a loss is ok, but to me the proper perspective is they're still ahead of the game and a playoff spot is there to be had. Even at 7-5 they'll be in the wildcard hunt. 10-7 and a wildcard exceeds all expectations for 2022, keep it in perspective given the rebuild is one year old and the past handful of Giants teams couldn't defeat a paper bag.

This is a great post, Jon.

we know its been an unlikely fun season (before yesterday)

Again, the "proper perspective its a rebuilding year" is like the "if I told you before the season" - its for AFTER the season

If you werent pissed off after yesterday's loss, then you just arent emotionally invested in this season

If you arent thinking "damn, with all these injuries wins are going to be hard to come by and we may miss the playoffs after a 7-2 start, and that would be real disappointing" then you didnt care to begin with

And maybe you didnt care, and thats fine. But again, this is like the 1981 season, and it meant a ton to finally make the playoffs

In comment 15916116 eclipz928 said:

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In comment 15916062 Essex said: Quote: with this team. The team you are seeing now might be ripped apart. The coaching has been good most of the season, that isn’t lost upon anyone, even after tonight’s deal. Not sure, though, I see a positive direction roster wise. The draft picks have underwhelmed (in part due to injury), the players who have excelled may not have a future here (Jones, Barkley etc). The problem with today and why many aren’t overreacting is that if you really look underneath the hood of 7-3, it just comes down to the Giants winning some extremely tight games (Jacksonville, Tenn, GB, Baltimore) and we could easily be 3-7. You usually are playing with “House Money” when you overachieve with your HC and young franchise QB. We don’t have that, so House Money isn’t really what I would describe as going on or some shrewd insight other than to say we aren’t a 7-3 team and we have a 7-3 record. The direction of the roster is what really concerns me and not sure we are either not starting over next season with a new QB or we are drastically overpaying for a QB and RB next season to run it back with what was a fortunate record through 10. In the final analysis, besides the fact that our coaching staff is much better than the last two, nothing about this year gives me great confidence that next year will be better than this one. This is pretty much where I'm at. Hard to enjoy these victories this year when the offense is still struggling and it's unclear if anything is even building to something in 2023. 75% of this roster, including the QB, could very well be turned over in the offseason. It's encouraging to know that we seemingly have the right coaching staff, but there's still a long ways to go with the personnel.

I can enjoy it this year but at the same time know that this is basically a one year deal thing. Wan’Dale has had three injuries now in the course of the season and most likely has a significant knee injury. Neal has been up and down, Kavon has one sack. We have no idea what we are doing with Barkley and Jones with really no good decisions out there for those two. If the NFL is super short life cycle like I just read, the QB position isn’t and is a key indicator of success in this league. What is our core an LT, a stud DT, and and two safeties. And right now we don’t have one. Daboll is a good coach, but you need a good roster in this league to sustain success. Schoen may well be great but he hasnt impressed me nearly as much as Daboll has.

In comment 15916160 JonC said:

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due to the injuries, and the lack of talent at some spots. It is what it is, and they're still in a good spot. 9 wins might be a wildcard spot given how the NFC is trending, and that in itself is a win for the franchise. At 6-1, I said 10 wins would be a challenge for this roster, it's still true. YMMV, but while the warts etc are obvious it's still been a fun season to see them right the ship and give us hope for the future.

Jon -- a winning record is a win for the franchise period --

I’m not mixing anything. We don’t know how its going to play out.

The easiest thing to do is look at the schedule and try to predict victories. They won those games without contributions from WR we thought were going to be a big part of the offense.

I would not have predicted the Giants would have run four road wins in 07 either in the playoffs. In particular given how Eli had played going into playoffs.

as expected with the roster that we all thought was poor, to having a new Head Coach and scheme, etc, however this team changed that narrative 9 games into the season and it has been a fun wild ride. That said, expectations change as you show success. I think most on here are pretty damn tired of losing over the past decade, with 2016 as an outlier. And so once this team showed that it could be successful, even by slim margins, expectations changed and now fans tend to react differently then if the team was 3-7 at this point, which would have been expected back in August. I know they’ve talked about this as a rebuild, but also talked about still winning and being competitive even going through a rebuild process. I would now be pretty disappointed if they didn’t make the playoffs, but reality is this team playing with third stringers and PS players now. From here on out it’s going to be very tough sledding and so we’ll definitely see what this team is made of.

yesterday, but all we have to remember is we are not supposed to be winning all these games anyway. This roster looks nothing like the roster that will win the next super bowl, and next year the roster is going to be "worse" in that we will have less proven talent and more young talent, which will take some time to get good.

As everyone has said, house money. That doesn't mean I don't care that we win or lose, but after the game is over we have to keep things in perspective. Also, part of this "losing" feeling is you know we're going to get housed on Thanksgiving.

this is not a rebuilding year. People keep saying that, but we are going to draft somewhere between 16-22, we have open questions about our two most important offensive players and if they will return and our building blocks besides Andrew Thomas and Dexter are not plentiful. Again, I am happy with the result, but this feels more the 1993 (a surprisingly good season with many players who contributed won't be here next season) than 1981 (where we had Qbs that would be here and the best edge rusher the NFL ever saw). NO QB of the future on the roster and next year will be worse than this year in all likelihood as 94 (and 95 and 96) was with 93.

This is year zero. Next year is year one. This year was about flushing as much of Gettlemans trash as possible and getting some development for our young players. We happened to win a bunch of games along the way.

This year was the demo day. The rebuild actually starts next year.

Sure, the expectations were low before the season. That goes out the window when you have a first half like they did. At 7-3, I want more. I have a ton of faith in this coaching staff and I believe as some guys get healthy, they will continue to find ways to win some games, including one or two nobody expects them to. I still expect 10 wins and a playoff spot, same as before yesterday's game.

Neal should be back. Beelinger should be back. Gates seems back. Maybe Lemieux or Bredeson at RG completes what can be a solid OL, Barkley gets some holes again, and this team surprises some people.

In comment 15916295 Essex said:

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this is not a rebuilding year. People keep saying that, but we are going to draft somewhere between 16-22, we have open questions about our two most important offensive players and if they will return and our building blocks besides Andrew Thomas and Dexter are not plentiful. Again, I am happy with the result, but this feels more the 1993 (a surprisingly good season with many players who contributed won't be here next season) than 1981 (where we had Qbs that would be here and the best edge rusher the NFL ever saw). NO QB of the future on the roster and next year will be worse than this year in all likelihood as 94 (and 95 and 96) was with 93.

I disagree with 93. That team had many Super Bowl players on it, coaching was the issue. So it wasnt a surprise they had a good season after the coaching change

81 featured Scott Brunner as QB, a run first team with lousy WRs, and a defense that had a rookie LT with solid veterans. And what preceded it was 18 years of lousy football - similar to this current stretch

Yesterday was a bad game, it happens. I know what this team is, and I said last week I wouldn't be the least bit surprised by a loss to the Lions, that scoring 21 probably wouldn't be enough. It's about expectations. This team, for the most part, as currently constructed are surpassing mine. I wouldn't be surprised if they're 7-5 two weeks from now. YMMV.

In comment 15916308 Jerry in_DC said:

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This is year zero. Next year is year one. This year was about flushing as much of Gettlemans trash as possible and getting some development for our young players. We happened to win a bunch of games along the way. This year was the demo day. The rebuild actually starts next year.

Probably all true, but it would be quite a nice sweetener if the Year One rebuild NEXT year came off of a demo season in which the team somehow made it into the playoffs!

In comment 15916388 BigBlue565358 said:

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In comment 15916295 Essex said: Quote: this is not a rebuilding year. People keep saying that, but we are going to draft somewhere between 16-22, we have open questions about our two most important offensive players and if they will return and our building blocks besides Andrew Thomas and Dexter are not plentiful. Again, I am happy with the result, but this feels more the 1993 (a surprisingly good season with many players who contributed won't be here next season) than 1981 (where we had Qbs that would be here and the best edge rusher the NFL ever saw). NO QB of the future on the roster and next year will be worse than this year in all likelihood as 94 (and 95 and 96) was with 93. I disagree with 93. That team had many Super Bowl players on it, coaching was the issue. So it wasnt a surprise they had a good season after the coaching change 81 featured Scott Brunner as QB, a run first team with lousy WRs, and a defense that had a rookie LT with solid veterans. And what preceded it was 18 years of lousy football - similar to this current stretch

The basic premise was that in 1993 we were propelled by Simms, who would never play for the Giants again. This year it is Barkley (who will be back) and Jones (who very well might not be back). We had building blocks in 93. We had Hampton and Strahan and more. 81 was LT, the offensive line, and even though Simms got hurt he was the building block that when he became the full time starter in 84 we took off.

doesn't mean they're destined to win 12 or 14 games, how many NFL seasons have you watched where the Giants (insert any team here) have faded in the second half? Especially with the injuries, better competition, division games in a strong season. Plenty of variables to consider.

Of not, for some of us, having ever made the playoffs before 1981. Of coming off years of lousy football instead of 2 Super Bowl wins

Of not, for some of us, having ever made the playoffs before 1981. Of coming off years of lousy football instead of 2 Super Bowl wins

We all know what this team is. What's the point of being a fan if you're always non emotional?

We all know the perspective, we all know what this team is. If you cant put your emotions and heart into a surprise playoff run, then why be a fan?

Play loose look back on the first 3 games we did lots of weird stuff to get what talent we have on the field like 3 running backs.. etc...

In comment 15916455 JonC said:

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doesn't mean they're destined to win 12 or 14 games, how many NFL seasons have you watched where the Giants (insert any team here) have faded in the second half? Especially with the injuries, better competition, division games in a strong season. Plenty of variables to consider.

Right?

I mean we all knew that this team was only beginning the rebuilding and re-shaping this year.

We win some games, some one here incorrectly change their expectations, we lose some games, and now it is a disappointment that we won't be playing in the Super Bowl.

JFC

Not making the playoffs after 7-2 would be disappointing. 9 wins probably makes the playoffs, 10 almost certainly does. Not being able to go 2-6 to make the playoffs would suck.

Of course I understand the emotional aspect, I was annoyed yesterday. Then I switched focus to the Cowboys. From where I sit, it's not a loss worth dwelling on, all factors considered.

In comment 15916469 BigBlue565358 said:

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We all know what this team is. What's the point of being a fan if you're always non emotional? We all know the perspective, we all know what this team is. If you cant put your emotions and heart into a surprise playoff run, then why be a fan?

Being a fan doesn't mean being delusional

In comment 15916481 JonC said:

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Of course I understand the emotional aspect, I was annoyed yesterday. Then I switched focus to the Cowboys. From where I sit, it's not a loss worth dwelling on, all factors considered.

BigBlue565358 = snablats