for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

This is going to be such a fascinating off-season

Sean : 11/21/2022 7:37 am
I’m thrilled that the Giants are 7-3 and will be playing meaningful December games. I’m going to enjoy each one and hope they can get to 10-7 and get in the tournament.

However, this off-season will be filled with crucial decisions. It’s no wonder BBI has debated the QB & RB so much. How could we not?

If this team fizzles out with a tougher schedule and injuries, do Schoen & Daboll bring back Jones? Do they double down on him and bring in better WR’s?

After Barkley’s performance yesterday, is Schoen more hesitant to give him that multi year contract?

The Giants could finish in last place with the way the rest of the division is playing. If so, I could definitely see Schoen/Daboll taking a step back with the roster in hopes to find their Josh Allen by letting both Jones and Barkley go.

Really nothing would surprise me. But, when the team is 7-3 with a +1 point differential, we could be looking at an entire new offense next year.

This really is unprecedented. A lot of BBI gets annoyed when this gets debated regularly, but it should. I don’t ever recall a situation like this.
I love Barkley  
Giantfan in skinland : 11/21/2022 7:58 am : link
He has absolutely carried this offense on his back this season and has done everything the fans/media were asking of him in terms of running with toughness and evolving his game.

That said, I think it would be negligent to give him a long-term deal. I hate that reality for running backs in the NFL, but it is just the sad truth. Given his workload, expecting him to maintain this level of play for anything more than another 2-3 years (and even that feels somewhat aggressive) is expecting him to beat extremely long odds. Seems like a prime target for a tag.
If the Giants finish in last place  
Red Right Hand : 11/21/2022 8:03 am : link
With all the holes they have, is QB and RB the biggest problems? They can change both ( in that case I would expect worse play from those positions for a couple of years than we have now) bgut what does that do to make the team better> The holes are at WR, TE, DB, OL, lack of a pass rush and good ILB play. changing RB and QB dont change the fact we aint going anywhere till those other issues get fixed. It's a lot easier, I think, to build those other spots, then, If you want, in 24 months switch out your QB and RB.

I would argue this approach, while perhaps not serving Schoens ego the best, does serve the franchise and fans best, and lets them stay competitive till they get the roster to a place Manager and coach are comfortable with.

In a small way, I think the most fascinating part of the offseason will be Schoen's struggle with himself. I hope he makes the smart moves, ass opposed to what Gettleman did, which is whatever the fuck HE wanted, because HE was in charge, and HE fell in love with this one or that one.

Jones is kinda like a homely girl that doesn't cheat and knows how to cook and throw a party. Sometimes you're better off. For a couple of years anyway.
The franchise tag makes too much sense for Saqoun  
ajr2456 : 11/21/2022 8:07 am : link
They need the weapons and tagging him at a minimum gives you the opportunity to trade him. I think they tag him and work out a reasonable 3 year deal.
The franchise tag makes too much sense for Saqoun  
ajr2456 : 11/21/2022 8:07 am : link
They need the weapons and tagging him at a minimum gives you the opportunity to trade him. I think they tag him and work out a reasonable 3 year deal.
RE: If the Giants finish in last place  
Sean : 11/21/2022 8:07 am : link
In comment 15916144 Red Right Hand said:
Quote:
With all the holes they have, is QB and RB the biggest problems? They can change both ( in that case I would expect worse play from those positions for a couple of years than we have now) bgut what does that do to make the team better> The holes are at WR, TE, DB, OL, lack of a pass rush and good ILB play. changing RB and QB dont change the fact we aint going anywhere till those other issues get fixed. It's a lot easier, I think, to build those other spots, then, If you want, in 24 months switch out your QB and RB.

I would argue this approach, while perhaps not serving Schoens ego the best, does serve the franchise and fans best, and lets them stay competitive till they get the roster to a place Manager and coach are comfortable with.

In a small way, I think the most fascinating part of the offseason will be Schoen's struggle with himself. I hope he makes the smart moves, ass opposed to what Gettleman did, which is whatever the fuck HE wanted, because HE was in charge, and HE fell in love with this one or that one.

Jones is kinda like a homely girl that doesn't cheat and knows how to cook and throw a party. Sometimes you're better off. For a couple of years anyway.

The issue is they are both pending free agents. If the team finishes in last, does Schoen pay up significant money to keep both? I think it’s doubtful but not impossible.

This isn’t Jones & Barkley’s second season where this wouldn’t even be a discussion.
I think Barkley is back, Jones and Sexy Dexi too...a lot has to happen  
edavisiii : 11/21/2022 8:26 am : link
They say Barkley and the team got close. He is a leader. 3 year contract seems reasonable. Overall, Schoen is going to have to prove his metal as a GM. He has a lot of draft picks but they are not high picks. Great teams are often built when a team nails their mid round picks. Let's hope he can too. Yesterday was frustrating but its good to see the team outlook be a lot more positive than it has been in years.
I think Dex is more of a must-sign than anyone  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/21/2022 8:29 am : link
That ability to rush the passer from the IOL is possibly the most valuable skill in the league excluding QB play.
The Giants turned it around this year with the players they have.  
Reese's Pieces : 11/21/2022 9:06 am : link
They were competitive with the Lions and the outcome of a couple of plays could have changed the final result. Jones still has below average pass protection, damaged further by the injuries to the offensive line. I would not like to see them dump someone they know they can win with to draft another quarterback and look at least another year of rebuilding. A rebuild year wastes one of Barclays remaining most productive years.

But the Giants still have a season left with what will be many difficult games. See if Jones holds up under the pressure or reverts to turning the ball over. No reason to decide now.

I could not understand why they kept sending Barkley on the same play to the same place where they kept stuffing him. Just two weeks ago Jones was faking that hand off to Barkley, keeping the ball himself, and running for over 100 yards. So what happened this week? Maybe someone decided that Jones was likely to be injured if he kept running the ball that much.
It seems almost impossible to responsibly sign Dex, Barkley and Jones  
Bold Ruler : Mod : 11/21/2022 9:12 am : link
I agree with others here. Dex is the absolute top priority. After you sign Dex, how would there be room for both Barkley and Jones? I don't know. I give the slight preference to Barkley as a 1a to Jones' 1b.

Agree on this thread, fascinating off season ahead.
They need to wrap up Thomas, then Dex  
Producer : 11/21/2022 9:13 am : link
then find a QB who can win with his arm.
Lot so unknowns  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/21/2022 9:13 am : link
I hope JS sees in the NFCE you better bring it in the trenches to start. Yesterday the Giants got beat up along both lines.

QB is not going to solve this although the benefit of identifying a QB in the draft and resetting the contract is a huge asset.

Corner, ILB, DL, WR's, interior OL are all needed. That is a lot to do having to pay SB and Jones (either or both).

I agree it will be interesting. To me it will be easier to get the defense to upper tier. The best bet on O is running something like we are on O with more pop in the passing game and a cheaper QB without losing much from what we have at the start. Can he find that? That is the big dilemma imv.
They don’t have to do anything yet with Dex  
RicFlair : 11/21/2022 9:17 am : link
If they don’t want to, he’s under contract next season they can wait on him if they need to.
Hopefully  
Jerry in_DC : 11/21/2022 9:28 am : link
The FO didn't overreact to our hot start. They came in with a plan, knowing this was a long term job. It still is. We have seen some positives and some development this year. But its still a team with big holes at important positions. Still a team that doesn't have a lot of depth. Still a team that has 2 good players on offense.

This team was never going anywhere this year. It's still not. It will need major moves, smart team building and a major talent infusion to be an actual good team. I think, and hope, that the FO still realizes this despite a good run of close wins against mostly bad competition
I agree Dex needs to be re-signed.  
Matt M. : 11/21/2022 9:57 am : link
He is the best player on the D this year by a wide margin. It's time to end the trend of the Giants successfully drafting interior DL and letting them walk as FA. That siad, that puts a lot of $ in DL just between him and Williams.

It probably means both Jones and Barkley can't be back, which is what most expected anyway.

The catch-22 is I think Robinson's injury probably has a cascading effect this off-season and may force us to re-sign Jones. There is going to have to be a serious focus on WR in the draft and FA, which probably means we aren't getting a new QB.
RE: They need to wrap up Thomas, then Dex  
outeiroj : 11/21/2022 10:42 am : link
In comment 15916232 Producer said:
Quote:
then find a QB who can win with his arm.



ok so your logic is to ignore the pending free agents, extend people while still under contract...

replace your qb with who exactly? and then who is this mythical qb going to throw the ball to?

You simply cannot replace all your offensive playmakers in a season...

Unless your plan is to force a first round qb, drafts a rd 2,4,5,6 WR and a rd3 running back and start nothing but rookies and completely ignore the defense and any other position
RE: It seems almost impossible to responsibly sign Dex, Barkley and Jones  
outeiroj : 11/21/2022 10:45 am : link
In comment 15916224 Bold Ruler said:
Quote:
I agree with others here. Dex is the absolute top priority. After you sign Dex, how would there be room for both Barkley and Jones? I don't know. I give the slight preference to Barkley as a 1a to Jones' 1b.

Agree on this thread, fascinating off season ahead.


Dex is under contract next year. While I agree it would be a good idea to sign him, his cap hit is reasonable and the other 2 are pending free agents. There is also nothing stopping you from signing barkley to a 4yr 60m w/ 35-40 guaranteed contract while keeping his first year cap hit similar to his cap hit this year
I don’t think Jones is the solution but I think he’s back in ‘23  
The_Boss : 11/21/2022 11:14 am : link
On a 2 year deal (one they could get out of in 2024). I’ve kind of soured on the QB’s in this draft, so I think Schoen and company kick that can down the road another year as they add better players to the rest of the roster, notably at WR, CB, and the interior of the OL.
This is one of the few threads I can completely agree with  
PatersonPlank : 11/21/2022 11:18 am : link
regardless of how the season ends. It will be fascinating to see what Daboll/Schoen do after living through a season with these players. They know what a Super Bowl contender looks like. Which players they keep, release, trade for, etc will be very interesting
No, they don't have to do anything with Dex now.  
Ten Ton Hammer : 11/21/2022 7:16 pm : link
And also he's clearly their best defensive player. If he continues this, the price goes up, not down. If there was a button I could press to take Leo William's money and give it to dexter I'd smash it.

I dont think people realize the air he's in with his play. He's not a good DT. He's pass rushing at a Fletcher Cox/ Low Calorie Aaron Donald level.
 
christian : 11/21/2022 7:26 pm : link
TTH — Schoen has that button. I’d fully support cutting Williams next year if it was the only way they could extend Lawrence.
My thoughts today  
5BowlsSoon : 11/21/2022 7:28 pm : link
I don’t see spending big bucks on a RB….just not worth it. Dallas did that with Zeke and it was a mistake.

I think Brida and Brightwell probably can do just as well “combined” if healthy.

As for Jones…let’s say the Giants pick 15-20 in the draft. Would there be a franchise QB in that range? Although of late, being the first QB taken is not a given….see Mayfield and Lawrence. So, that has to be considered- where we pick.

From my perspective, QB is not a need…we have plenty other needs- WR, LB, CB, P, PR/KR, and probably RB if we don’t resign Saquon.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/21/2022 7:35 pm : link
This will be an interesting offseason. Gun to head...I think we franchise Saquon. I have no clue what we do with DJ. The thought of shelling him $30 million plus a season...loco to moi.
RE: …  
Angel Eyes : 11/21/2022 7:36 pm : link
In comment 15917405 christian said:
Quote:
TTH — Schoen has that button. I’d fully support cutting Williams next year if it was the only way they could extend Lawrence.

I hope you have someone to replace Williams... unless Lawrence goes back to 3-4 DE.
RE: RE: …  
christian : 11/21/2022 7:42 pm : link
In comment 15917417 Angel Eyes said:
Quote:
In comment 15917405 christian said:


Quote:


TTH — Schoen has that button. I’d fully support cutting Williams next year if it was the only way they could extend Lawrence.


I hope you have someone to replace Williams... unless Lawrence goes back to 3-4 DE.


Why would the Giants do that? They’d replace Williams.
RE: Lot so unknowns  
Brown_Hornet : 11/21/2022 8:18 pm : link
In comment 15916234 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
I hope JS sees in the NFCE you better bring it in the trenches to start. Yesterday the Giants got beat up along both lines.

QB is not going to solve this although the benefit of identifying a QB in the draft and resetting the contract is a huge asset.

Corner, ILB, DL, WR's, interior OL are all needed. That is a lot to do having to pay SB and Jones (either or both).

I agree it will be interesting. To me it will be easier to get the defense to upper tier. The best bet on O is running something like we are on O with more pop in the passing game and a cheaper QB without losing much from what we have at the start. Can he find that? That is the big dilemma imv.
Good post.
I wonder if ILB is fixed, ok, improved, with Beavers.
Though, ILB is a more affordable position via FA and the team cannot fill all of the holes via the draft.
.  
sharp315 : 11/21/2022 8:44 pm : link
Neither are going to get contracts during the year. DJ said they didn't even talk contract during the bye - and Schoen didn't pick up the option year. Saquon said they weren't close on the contract talks during the bye. They will both taste free agency and get really serious offers elsewhere. I am guessing neither is back next year and we enter the true rebuild stage of this new regime.
Great OP - Great thread  
arniefez : 11/21/2022 8:56 pm : link
Thank you.

I agree with the consensus that Barkley gets tagged. I'd rather they let him walk then invest big money in a RB with his mileage.

I think it's possible to extend Lawrence and keep Leo Williams on a restructure. Is that unrealistic?

Extending Andrew Thomas is a top priority too.

As far as Jones goes my guess is the GM and HC have a price in mind for him. I'm going to guess he makes it to free agency and the Giants see where his market goes.

It would be great if this thread gets pinned and we can all weigh in as things develop if it's possible for everyone to remain civil.
RE: I love Barkley  
GMen72 : 11/21/2022 10:42 pm : link
In comment 15916140 Giantfan in skinland said:
Quote:
He has absolutely carried this offense on his back this season and has done everything the fans/media were asking of him in terms of running with toughness and evolving his game.

That said, I think it would be negligent to give him a long-term deal. I hate that reality for running backs in the NFL, but it is just the sad truth. Given his workload, expecting him to maintain this level of play for anything more than another 2-3 years (and even that feels somewhat aggressive) is expecting him to beat extremely long odds. Seems like a prime target for a tag.


I don't think there's any chance they give Saquon a long-term deal...there's no need. Just tag him and trade him next year if he's not in the longterm plans. You can't just let him walk...he has trade value on par, but probably slightly less, than McCaffrey.

Agree with the OP...this is going to be a very interesting off-season that will effect this franchise for years.
I keep reading “we are set at QB”  
Sean : 11/22/2022 6:45 am : link
It seems people forget that Jones is a pending free agent. That’s a big deal. There is a decent chance the QB & star RB are gone after the season.
RE: I keep reading “we are set at QB”  
giantBCP : 11/22/2022 6:52 am : link
In comment 15917622 Sean said:
Quote:
It seems people forget that Jones is a pending free agent. That’s a big deal. There is a decent chance the QB & star RB are gone after the season.


It is a big deal, whether you’re pro-Jones or anti-Jones. If they want Jones back, I don’t think that bringing him back under the franchise tag is ideal for them.
Lets take the emotion and personal leanings out of this for a moment..  
DefenseWins : 11/22/2022 6:56 am : link
We know this...
1. The QB is the hardest to find. Most teams do not have a QB that BBI would be okay with long term. Just look at the posts here. Without a sure thing on the horizon and positive experience that Daboll has had with Jones, you can expect the Giants to sign him to a long term deal.

2. We often hear that the RB is an easier position to fill. 2nd and 3rd round guys playing well around the league and making an impact. I think we will franchise Barkley for one more year so we do not lose the production next season. Then, for the following year we will find a replacement.

Our off season free agent and draft capital will hopefully be focused on strengthening the OL and WR group.
Back to the Corner