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BiteyMax's Next Day Non-Emotional Thoughts

Biteymax22 : 11/21/2022 8:55 am
My non emotional thoughts from Yesterday’s game. As always, feel free to add yours, argue with mine, etc…

Lions 31, Giants 18. The word “ugh” comes to mind when thinking this game over. Here and there teams just kind of lay an egg, as Giants fans, we need to hope that this is the case rather than the other possibility, which is that we have a ton of holes in this roster and other teams are just figuring us out… In addition to a putrid Sunday afternoon of football, we had the next worse thing happen, which was a slew of injuries before having only 3 rest days prior to Thursday’s game. The Cowboy’s on the other hand, cruised to an easy victory over a much better team that we lost to yesterday. Bad game and it puts us in a bad spot. How we respond on Thursday is going to tell us a lot about the players on this team and our coaching staff.


Offense:

Jones – I’m good to call this Jones’ worst game of the season going 27/44 for 341, 1 TD, 2 Ints and another 50 yards rushing + a TD. Jones picked up a lot of yards and a TD against Detroit’s soft shell when the game was out of hand. His INT to Aiden Hutchinson was a momentum killer, putting Detroit in easy scoring position. We never really caught up after that. To be fair to Jones, this was another game where poor weapons got poorer. We shuffled LG, C and RT on the offensive line and lost Wan’dale Robinson during what was looking like his best game of the year. Still, we weren’t exactly playing the 85’ Bears defense… there were opportunities that didn’t get taken advantage of.

RB – Stop Barkley, win the game. That’s going to be the mantra of every team we play moving forward. Detroit stacked the box, sold out on the run, and held Barkley to 15 carries for 22 yards. By far his worst game of the year. The only effectiveness we had running the ball was Jones keeping a few read options, other than that we failed to move the ball and Barkley was getting hit almost as soon as getting the ball. Again, we shuffled 3 OLinemen, which doesn’t help.

WR – Well, Wan’Dale Robinson was having a good game… I have a funny feeling we’re going to be hearing really bad news on him, don’t know why, just have a bad feeling about it. Slayton continues to be a consistent present in the passing game, unfortunately he isn’t a #1 which is what he’s being asked to be right now. Other than that, nothing spectacular from the group. While Hodgins had some catches, and so did Golladay/James, we heard the announcers say “nobody open on that one” far too many times yesterday. This group continues to be a weakness.

TE – Cager caught 2 balls for 20 yards and no one else from this group got on the stat sheet. On top of the lack of targets/catches, the staff has seemed to favor jumbo sets using extra OL rather than our own TE’s as blocker. While Cager looks like someone that should have a permanent role of some sort going forward, we’re seeing week after week how much the loss of Bellinger hurts. As I mentioned earlier teams “selling out” for the run, lack of TE’s that can both block and run a route makes you very one dimensional. Teams know Nick Gates isn’t going to run the seam, makes it easier to key on Barkley.

OL – Well, Andrew Thomas is good… Other than that, I almost don’t want to comment. So many guys shuffled, Lemieux seems to have been benched. Was Gates in to get him some work or because something happened to Feliciano? Either way, pressure came from the interior all day long. I’m waiting to see Bobby Skinner’s OL review this week for a better look, I need to see if these were communication errors or guys just losing 1 on 1’s. Neal is coming back soon which should help on the outside, but all hands are on deck for the interior positions, we shouldn’t be getting beat this badly there.


Defense:

DL – Very plain and simple Dexter Lawrence and Leonard Williams continue to win their battles but outside of that the guys we’re putting on the line are very average. Multiple times in goal line packages we saw our DL get pushed back, allowing 4 rushing TDs on the day. We also allowed over 160 yards rushing. Some of this goes on the LBs, but as of right now the DL is too reliant on 2 massive men playing 85%+ of the snaps.

EDGE – Myself and a lot of other posters keep using the word “close” for Thibodeaux, while this perhaps may be correct, we’re 10 games in, he has 1 sack, he was the 5th pick of the draft. Thibs needs to start closing. On the other side of the ball, we saw a player at the same position picked just 3 spots ahead of him find ways to impact the game. We need Thibs to start getting sacks. Ward is more of a hybrid guy setting the edge, behind him Fox and Smith are a UDFA and 4th rounder, we need Thibs to be the guy getting to the QB. When Azeez comes back, we’ll get some help, but we need to hear Thibodeaux’s name on a more consistent basis. He’ll get there, he has the talent.

LB – We gave up 31 points and 4 rushing TDs, it shouldn’t be a shock that this unit didn’t play well yesterday, no one really did. On top of a few bad angles and missed gaps, I saw a few break downs in coverage and another handful of times the MLB didn’t get proper depth on his drop and left a huge zone open in the passing game. If other parts of the team play well, we can cover the talent gap at this position, but as players go down, that’s getting harder to do.

CB – I’m not going to say anyone did or didn’t play a bad game here. My reasoning for that is that we had both Adoree Jackson and Fabian Moreau go down, leaving 3rd and 4th stringers playing. I can’t fault a 4th string CB for not shutting down the opposing teams #1 WR. The injuries were a bad result at a bad time for us, unfortunately there isn’t much we can do here other than look for the next man to step up. Holmes, Flott etc… are going to get tested against Dallas. Hopefully Flott can show some growth, but this has always been a development year for him.

S – If I’m correct, Dane Belton was benched during the game in favor of Pinnock, who was hurt during the game and had to be taken out of the stadium via ambulance. Belton has made a play or two but has also taken some bad angles over the past few weeks, I’m guessing this is what caused Wink to make the change. Love had a decent game, showing himself as a consistent player but other than that, nothing to note. I’m guessing we lose Pinnock for extended time, thankfully Jefferson seems close to coming back.


Coaching:

Nothing went well yesterday, obviously we must hang some of that on the coaches. To start, there is going to be a massive debate all week about allowing Adoree Jackson to return punts. His injury put us at a huge personnel disadvantage, even in preseason I remember reading threads saying, “if Adoree goes down, we’re screwed”. We can’t redo the past or go back in time, so this is done, but let’s just say Giants fans are never going to feel good about starting corners returning punts or kicks…

Moving to the coordinators our defense got almost no pressure on Goff despite blitzing at their normal rate. At some point in time, I would have liked us to dial back, specifically with 3rd, 4th and 5th string CBs left in man coverage. On offense Kafka couldn’t find a way to make the running game work and still looked hesitant to put a game on Jones’s back. If asked, I’m sure everyone on the staff would have liked to have this game back.


Conclusion:

At the beginning I mentioned a team “laying an egg”. When I look at the rest of the season there were a lot of bad things we did yesterday that we haven’t been doing all year, so there is a legitimate chance that this was just a “bad game” and we can move on from it. There haven’t been a whole lot of undefeated seasons in the NFL for a reason, bad games happen, teams come out flat and winning in the NFL is hard. How we bounce back is huge for a lot of our players looking to establish themselves as core guys, its huge for Jones and his future here as well.

Laying an egg or not, these injuries have put us in a tough position going into Dallas. As it looks right now, we’re going to be down at least Jackson, Pinnock, and Robinson with the likelihood that Moreau misses as well. We have 2 healthy safeties on the roster, and one was losing snaps to Pinnock. Thursday is going to be tough sledding, brace yourselves. Again, don’t just walk in considering this an automatic loss. Crazier things have happened, and our coaching staff has shown an ability this year to come up with good game plans. We need our fingers crossed on this one, but it isn’t off the table.
...  
broadbandz : 11/21/2022 9:07 am : link
Listen I love the giants and pretty much back them in every situation. But Thurs. is the most sure loss I have ever seen since 2017. It would be a miracle for the giants just to cover the spread here.

Dallas was already a terrible matchup if we were 100 percent healthy.
Great post as always, Bitey.  
Mike from Ohio : 11/21/2022 9:10 am : link
It is becoming damn near impossible to find a non-emotional post on this site. There used to be way more discussion like this, but those are few and far between at this point.

The game was bad from the outset and I am not worried about the seeming lethargy and lack of focus because you can correct those things from one game to the next, especially for a national game against a division rival. The real problem yesterday was (obviously) the injuries. Unfortunately those carry forward and this team simply doesn't have enough depth to withstand those.

I expect the team will be prepared and willing to fight on Thursday. I just think they may be badly outgunned talent-wise. Will be a good trial by fire for a young team trying to find their way. Will be interesting what we see from them next week.
Aren't there reports on Wan'dale  
fkap : 11/21/2022 9:17 am : link
being diagnosed with torn ACL, waiting for MRI confirmation?

I think that 'bad feeling' is already in the bag.
overall,  
fkap : 11/21/2022 9:23 am : link
laid an egg is pretty accurate.

That's 2 in the last 3 games. And last week (or any W, actually) wasn't exactly a 'we kicked ass' game.

With the injuries piling up, this Cinderella season is rapidly approaching midnight.
RE: overall,  
Returning Video Tapes : 11/21/2022 9:27 am : link
In comment 15916254 fkap said:
Quote:
laid an egg is pretty accurate.

That's 2 in the last 3 games. And last week (or any W, actually) wasn't exactly a 'we kicked ass' game.

With the injuries piling up, this Cinderella season is rapidly approaching midnight.


Has that feeling doesn’t it. Gonna really need to pull a rabbit out the hat this week.
Golladay  
Costy16 : 11/21/2022 9:30 am : link
Is going to have to be featured more on offense with Robinson hurt now. They really don't have a choice.
They were out coached yesterday - didn't make changes soon enough  
stoneman : 11/21/2022 9:35 am : link
they obviously had a run heavy game plan that was planned against and stuffed by Det. It worked last game, so you stay with it until they stop it. Det stopped it, but they kept running between the tackles into the 3rd quarter. Needed to make adjustments sooner than that.

Also noticed in the past 3-4 games that there have not been any gadget plays called. The first 5-6 games always had some cleaver alignments, reverses, screens, etc. Nothing the past few weeks - just run up the middle, some RPOs, play action. No screens, mis-direction, reverses, nothing. Yesterday would have been a perfect flee-flicker call with Det stuffing the box up front.
Great  
AcidTest : 11/21/2022 9:38 am : link
review.

We had a low margin for error that is now gone because of the injuries. Shepard, McKeathan, Beavers, Davidson, and likely Robinson have all suffered ACL injuries. Ojulari has barely played, McKinney may be done for the season, Neal has missed significant time as did Williams, and now Jackson is out for three to five weeks. Penalties and turnovers may to some extent be a function of having to play backups because of the injuries.
I dont think Jones performance  
fanoftheteam : 11/21/2022 10:04 am : link
Was as bad as the turnover statline. I actually thought it was one of his better games
I dont think Jones performance  
fanoftheteam : 11/21/2022 10:07 am : link
Was as bad as the turnover statline. I actually thought it was one of his better games
That was the kind of game I was expecting from the beginning of  
Dinger : 11/21/2022 10:07 am : link
the season. I think we also caught Detroit on the upswing. As BB says, Thanksgiving is usually when you find out the type of team you have. We have a VERY injured team. Barkley dancing behind a banged up OL that had ONE legit starter playing definitely did not help. Jones' INT's were both completely on him and while maybe they didn't cost us the game directly losing the turnover battle DEFINITELY does help. Broken Record warning; Why was out starting and BEST CB returning punts? We got what we deserved. We need MLB help desperately. I'm starting to get impatient with KT and I think I'm in the late group on that. Scottish Hammer needs to be deported. oh and our best player from last year had the FLU and missed to extras. Throw on an inconsistent and horrible officiating crew and you have an expected result. But hey, Breida looked really good, Cager looked decent for a UDFA mid year pick up, and I thouhgt Hodgins was doing ok, until his fumble:(. ALSO, KENNY GOLLADAY had a reception!!!!
Good post.  
The Mike : 11/21/2022 10:09 am : link
A balanced and measured assessment of yesterday's mess. Rarified air for this forum...

This was a tough day for our coaches. The team seemed tentative and sluggish for the first time this season. The offensive game plan seemed non-existent. Against one of the worst defenses in the league, at home with brutal wind conditions, they looked lost. And the personnel decisions - from Adoree Jackson returning kicks to Shane Lemieux starting - were atrocious. No one has been a stronger supporter of Daboll and company than me, but yesterday was a disaster and needs to be flushed from memory asap.

Of greater concern is the talent level of our personnel and mounting injury list. Both unfortunately now appear to be catching up with our low pre-season expectations. Losing McKinney was a disaster on every level. The defense just doesn't look the same. The 2022 draft is looking worse and worse with every passing day. In part due to bad selections, in part because of bad injury luck. But Thibs was absent yesterday, McFadden and Belton looked slow, and Ezeudu while better than Lemieux, appeared to be equally unimpressive. Robinson was having a good game, but at his size, he has been, and will always be, an injury waiting to happen. Unfortunately the worst was just confirmed that it is an ACL. Brutal.

Surprised how sluggish Barkley and the running game looked. If this continues, this team will not win another game. Not surprised by the uneven performance by DJ. As usual, he does some things very well. He does some things very poorly. It has been the same things from the very beginning. I continue to believe that he cannot lead this team against superior defenses in a pass first offense. Is he solely to blame? No. The wide receivers on this team are terrible. But two things can be true. And in this case, they are.

So lets hope the coaching staff quickly rebounds and gets this team fired up for the tough path ahead. While I am hopeful that we have meaningful December football and the dream start of the season doesn't morph into a nightmare finish, I can understand the worry and panic from shell shocked Giants fans. While I agree with posters who say we are now playing with house money and that finding our coach was a huge win this year, missing the playoffs from our current position in the standings would be a disastrous prologue to the offseason.



RE: Aren't there reports on Wan'dale  
Biteymax22 : 11/21/2022 10:20 am : link
In comment 15916246 fkap said:
Quote:
being diagnosed with torn ACL, waiting for MRI confirmation?

I think that 'bad feeling' is already in the bag.


Hadn't seen that when I wrote this up but it seems to be confirmed now. Tough loss, the kid was just hitting a stride.
I disagree on Jones, I thought he was tremendous.  
Victor in CT : 11/21/2022 10:39 am : link
the Hutch pick was a nice play by him. Jones did everything he could and then some. not one extroaordinary catch or play by anyone other than him.
yes, the 2 INTs really hurt, but  
Bill in UT : 11/21/2022 10:40 am : link
when your QB puts it up 44 times on a windy day, some bad things are going to happen. I thought he had a pretty good day throwing the ball to some questionable receivers. The rest of this year will be to get guys like Gates, Ezeudu, Bredeson and Neal some reps, and I think we can have a decent OL next year. Would really like to see a CB, WR and ILB the first 2 days of the draft. If we have to draft a QB, we're screwed.
The damn roughing the passer call in the 1st period  
gtt350 : 11/21/2022 10:42 am : link
killed us. Total BS
As you note  
jpennyva : 11/21/2022 10:48 am : link
Teams are starting to figure the Giants out and you have to give credit to the Lions as they were extremely well-prepared for this game.
RE: The damn roughing the passer call in the 1st period  
bubba0825 : 11/21/2022 10:56 am : link
In comment 15916506 gtt350 said:
Quote:
killed us. Total BS


The refs didn’t call anything in the second half. Wonder why
RE: The damn roughing the passer call in the 1st period  
Sec 103 : 11/21/2022 12:38 pm : link
In comment 15916506 gtt350 said:
Quote:
killed us. Total BS


Well I agree that started the decline, albeit we did score a TD after that.... We lost the game, no doubt, but the refs were inconsistent all day
the talent here was underrated all season long  
djm : 11/21/2022 1:11 pm : link
but the injuries are tough to overcome for any team let alone this one.

I mean we're literally talking more than half the starting roster being OUT. There is only so much a team can overcome.

We will still fight and claw, it aint over, it just got a lot tougher. How many starters aren't available for Thursday? It has to be around 12 or so...maybe more:

OUT
The Starting DE (name escapes me)
Ojulari
Jackson
Arob (other corner)
McKinney
Neal? (even if he plays he won't be 100%)
Guard(2?)
Center (ok Gates may help there but still)
W. Robinson

That's 10 right there. I know I am missing a lot of guys still. Mind numbing.
Bellinger  
djm : 11/21/2022 1:12 pm : link
there's at LEAST 11.

Good luck with that.
IMO Daniel jones always gives great effort  
arniefez : 11/21/2022 3:11 pm : link
but he leaves so many plays on the field not seeing where the ball should go or not willing to try and throw guys open. If the GM and HC plan to go forward with I'll support all 3 of them. But I won't be surprised if they decide to start over at QB either.
RE: the talent here was underrated all season long  
Angel Eyes : 11/21/2022 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15916849 djm said:
Quote:
but the injuries are tough to overcome for any team let alone this one.

I mean we're literally talking more than half the starting roster being OUT. There is only so much a team can overcome.

We will still fight and claw, it aint over, it just got a lot tougher. How many starters aren't available for Thursday? It has to be around 12 or so...maybe more:

OUT
The Starting DE (name escapes me)
Ojulari
Jackson
Arob (other corner)
McKinney
Neal? (even if he plays he won't be 100%)
Guard(2?)
Center (ok Gates may help there but still)
W. Robinson

That's 10 right there. I know I am missing a lot of guys still. Mind numbing.

Starting DE in a 2-4-5, isn't that Ojulari? Unless Ward is down.
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