Is It Time to Be Concerned about Kayvon Thibs?

not even worried about it

- Bill in UT

It is at the end of next season.

interesting question. I will say this- he needs to start making a difference if we are to have any shot. His being "close' isn't changing the tide at all on defense and to be honest he was pretty invisible in the second half yesterday.

He’s our only legitimate edge rush threat and gets extra attention. Perhaps it would be a different story if Ojulari had been healthier and we had some more talent at the position, but the reality is Thibs is taking a high percentage of snaps and he’s still raw.

He will get there.

A select few with an agenda may agree with you, but no reason to be concerned. He is going to be a stud.

Like he should be released at this point. No need in keeping rookies that don't have over 10 sacks on the season. No one ever gets better from their 1st season. Oh well, maybe next year.

But no. He’s a rookie that has been getting pressure while still needing to add more to his game. He’ll be fine.

In comment 15916507 JaxGiant said:

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Like he should be released at this point. No need in keeping rookies that don't have over 10 sacks on the season. No one ever gets better from their 1st season. Oh well, maybe next year.

Exactly. Especially rookies who missed most of their first ever training camp and the first few games of their rookie season.

Seeing as all blitzes called resulted in zero hits on the QB from any players,
but one hold called that might have possibly got there.

The opposing OL seems to have the knack of just absorbing pressure enough to get the pass away...

Giants blitzed 60% of the time and got little pressure on Goff.

But he lost contain on the edge a couple of times. Setting the edge is an important part of a ER's game. He needs to be stout there.

Strahan or Tuck need to teach him some inside pass rush moves.
Everything right now is an outside rush. Opposing OT’s are playing his outside move and taking him past the QB on most plays
The one big positive is I like his motor. I thought he took plays off at Oregon. I don’t see that at all
Not time to give up on Thibs.

offensive line in the entire league

Was expected as a top 5 pick ,but I’d give him a pass… playing on a sprained knee set him back.

In comment 15916548 BigBlue7 said:

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offensive line in the entire league

And the fact that Goff is one of the least sacked QBs and that if I remember correctly he has the quickest or second quickest snap to release in the NFL.. something like 2.18 seconds..

this world start is making every pass rusher behind him be unfairly judged. It takes time to develop at that spot. He will be fine just needs to learn moves.

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In comment 15916555 blueblood said:

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In comment 15916548 BigBlue7 said: Quote: offensive line in the entire league And the fact that Goff is one of the least sacked QBs and that if I remember correctly he has the quickest or second quickest snap to release in the NFL.. something like 2.18 seconds..

Yup!

even with bringing extra guys they get picked up and don't get pressure on the quarterback. Either we need to acquire better guys or the guys we send to rush the passer have to get better at shedding blocks.

did you get concerned about Andrew Thomas and then at what point did you realize you were wrong to be concerned?

every week

and I say no, it is not time.

about -He is the least of them..

I see a guy more concerned with stoping the run than just going hog wild at the QB. He had given up the edge a few times early in the season and has done a better job as of late. It seems when he takes and inside pass rush move we are blitzing a DB on the outside of him.

He is doing his job and is making his team function better over individual stats.

Relax.

In comment 15916548 BigBlue7 said:

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offensive line in the entire league

Except he was stonewalled by a single TE on a few plays.

I think he was still feeling the effects of the flu. He missed practice last week because of illness, so unless I hear otherwise I think that's why he was so ineffective yesterday.

You can't be concerned until the end of next year. For some guys, especially those who dont play in the SEC, it takes a little longer. Once the Giants get some pass rush from the edges, you'll see the impact of Leo and Dex be even more pronounced.

Just during the week, Wink call him the can opener. The guy can play and is a great athlete. He's only 7 games into his career. He will turn out to be a good pick IMO.

Wink just said how great KT has been and how he's been doing all the dirty work. Wink knows shit!

Cut his ass!!

there's no cause to be overjoyed either.

Strip sacked Jackson to seal a win vs the Ravens. But hell he hasn't broken the single season sack record he sux. Cut him!!

Strip Sack...really...his finger touched the ball...
His name should be Kayvon "I get the benefit of the doubt" Thibodeaux. He's usually not even on the tv screen on a pass rush... I hope he's a stud, we need him...

We knew this about Wink’s system. EDGEs aren’t the guys in his system. He asks his EDGEs to stop the run, contain, and collapse the pocket so the DTs (Michael Pierce, Calais Campbell, Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams) can make an impact cause if chaos in the middle obstructing passing lanes and causing more turnover possible plays. That’s why the Ravens get so many INTs

This defense would look a lot different had we had been able to get Sauce instead of Thibs. He’s paying big dividends for the Jets.

someone broke into the war room and put him back on the draft board

Might have been a deranged fan upset that we didn't get Justin Herbert

In comment 15916735 GoDeep13 said:

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We knew this about Wink’s system. EDGEs aren’t the guys in his system. He asks his EDGEs to stop the run, contain, and collapse the pocket so the DTs (Michael Pierce, Calais Campbell, Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams) can make an impact cause if chaos in the middle obstructing passing lanes and causing more turnover possible plays. That’s why the Ravens get so many INTs This defense would look a lot different had we had been able to get Sauce instead of Thibs. He’s paying big dividends for the Jets.

This is why I was concerned about Wink's system; it's Graham's all over again.

Has played really well this season despite the lack of sacks. People should also remember he was sick this week as well.

He has a ton of room for improvement and we should be excited the possibilities

We need to see more from him rest of the way. I am not overly concerned but hes been extremly easy to handle 1 on 1 lately. We need to see some wins out of him

But if I'm a coach I have a direct conversation with him that its time to step up.

Even a little concerned is lying. We are all waiting for him to do something. Anything at this point he doesn’t look the part so far. Defend him and you’re just not admitting the obvious. I loved the pick and obviously it’s to early to tell but he hasn’t shown me a thing

as Strahan, Osi, and Tuck had their rookie seasons is trailing rookie JPP by 3 sacks. Ask this question this time next year.

In comment 15916589 Kmed6000 said:

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did you get concerned about Andrew Thomas and then at what point did you realize you were wrong to be concerned?

Me personally, I was NEVER concerned about Andrew Thomas. Why? Because I have always been a firm believer that you dont judge a player off of his rookie season. There are going to be struggles. Just like ANY person who is in a new job, there is a learning curve, and I would think that would be a huge curve for an OT. I read an article in the Athletic about Thomas last week where he discussed some of the struggles he had as a rookie, and it really does sound like a lot of what he struggled with are the same issues that Neal has been having , mostly related to blocking one way in college and having to basically change everything that you did there for the pros.

In comment 15916541 Stratman said:

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But he lost contain on the edge a couple of times. Setting the edge is an important part of a ER's game. He needs to be stout there.

There are times he looks lost out there and not understanding his assignment.

Next question.

given the draft choice we traded down for last year has been traded, and the team that drafted right after us, may have taken one of the best defensive players in the NFL right now, who also happens to be the Giant biggest rival.

And I know it's early with Thibs, but his impact has been minimal.

In comment 15916845 thefan said:

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as Strahan, Osi, and Tuck had their rookie seasons is trailing rookie JPP by 3 sacks. Ask this question this time next year.

Great post!

FIRE WINK!!

is it me or does he appear much smaller than 260 lbs?

concerned about Thibs - seriously?

In comment 15917100 Larry in Pencilvania said:

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FIRE WINK!!

Has he made us better? We don't seem to be getting to the quarterback any more than under Graham.

played 2 less games than Hutchinson, has been playing injured has only1 sack compared to Hutchinson's 5.5, rest of numbers are comparable.

In comment 15916590 islander1 said:

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every week

A fan forum is a very good place to find out why we shouldn’t pay too much attention to what fans say.

In comment 15916845 thefan said:

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as Strahan, Osi, and Tuck had their rookie seasons is trailing rookie JPP by 3 sacks. Ask this question this time next year.

The people you named weren't top 5 picks. And so JPP is the better comparison because KT was a higher pick.

Regardless it is like some of you don't know the meaning of the word concerned. Yes, I expect a top 5 pick to have a bigger impact than this, I am concerned about that.

Does that mean I'm writing him off? No way.

Two different things

The guy has stuff to learn but he’s busting his butt out there. The effort is obvious and he’s working with some serious athletic ability. Glad he’s a Giant.

He’s a rookie learning to play a tough position. He looks lighting quick and and very athletic. Barring injury he should have a fine career.

and haven't been overwhelmed by his play so far for NYG.

But I do agree, his position is a tough one to adapt to in the NFL, so it's too early to pass judgment.

In comment 15917346 NoGainDayne said:

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In comment 15916845 thefan said: Quote: as Strahan, Osi, and Tuck had their rookie seasons is trailing rookie JPP by 3 sacks. Ask this question this time next year. The people you named weren't top 5 picks. And so JPP is the better comparison because KT was a higher pick. Regardless it is like some of you don't know the meaning of the word concerned. Yes, I expect a top 5 pick to have a bigger impact than this, I am concerned about that. Does that mean I'm writing him off? No way. Two different things

All due respect NGD, you were making threads about how Wirfs should have been the pick over Thomas in 2020 if I recall correctly.

what? you mean like you wanted 15 sacks or something?

watch the game when he is not being held he is causing alot of disruption. He will add weight/skill in the offseason and be better next year. (I know, shocking)

I said this before, Dexter was a questionable draft pick on BBI at one time too.

He's a dam rookie man. Learn

In comment 15917378 Sean said:

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In comment 15917346 NoGainDayne said: Quote: In comment 15916845 thefan said: Quote: as Strahan, Osi, and Tuck had their rookie seasons is trailing rookie JPP by 3 sacks. Ask this question this time next year. The people you named weren't top 5 picks. And so JPP is the better comparison because KT was a higher pick. Regardless it is like some of you don't know the meaning of the word concerned. Yes, I expect a top 5 pick to have a bigger impact than this, I am concerned about that. Does that mean I'm writing him off? No way. Two different things All due respect NGD, you were making threads about how Wirfs should have been the pick over Thomas in 2020 if I recall correctly.

I don't recall making a thread about it but I did really like Wirfs going into the draft and after yes. And it is actually a pretty similar point, in a capped league where rookie contracts are so valuable I prefer the guy who is ready to go day one. That is different than writing a player off.

And those were actually where a lot of my comments drove as well. How a lot of the comments DG made were about how NFL ready Thomas was and how that like a lot of the things he said played out quite poorly.

I absolutely expect a top 5 pick to make an impact out of the gate. It doesn't mean they won't ever improve if they don't but you have dominant rookies coming into the NFL every year at different positions. Certainly the chances are way higher that you are going to be happy with the pick in 5-10 years if they show they have the good out of the gate.

In comment 15917346 NoGainDayne said:

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In comment 15916845 thefan said: Quote: as Strahan, Osi, and Tuck had their rookie seasons is trailing rookie JPP by 3 sacks. Ask this question this time next year. The people you named weren't top 5 picks. And so JPP is the better comparison because KT was a higher pick. Regardless it is like some of you don't know the meaning of the word concerned. Yes, I expect a top 5 pick to have a bigger impact than this, I am concerned about that. Does that mean I'm writing him off? No way. Two different things

Yeah I'd like to him to come out of the gate strong too. Unfortunately he got injured in preseason and then missed the first few games. His biggest impacts have been a strip sack to seal a big win over Baltimore and I think PD on a goal line stand to secure the win against GB. Thats not nothing, but I'd like more too.

However, the thread title asked is it time to be concerned. And my response was yeah next year, I have the same opinion on Evan Neal. Both guys have a lot to learn. Thibbs needs to develop more moves and continue to get a feel for the NFL like many rookies. We could use more out of him, but he's starting and presumable learning. Look how long it took for Dex to become what he is now.

Get excited about last years

every week. Otherwise, cut them.

Does no one get the chance to develop anymore? Are we that impatient where everything has to be now now now. I wonder how many good players never were able to reach their potential due to not having a chance to develop.

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I know there is some chatter circling around the #5 overall pick Kayvon Thibodeaux. He has 1 sack in 7 games. If that is all you look at, a strong case can be made for disappointment. I challenge you to look a little deeper, however. Thibodeaux is averaging 1 pressure every 11 pass-rush snaps. #1 overall pick Travon Walker? 1 every 13. #2 overall pick Aidan Hutchinson? 1 every 11. Thibodeaux has a forced fumble. Walker? Zero. Hutchinson? Zero. Thibodeaux has hit the quarterback 3 times on 205 pass rushes. Walker has hit the quarterback 3 times on 299 pass rushes. Hutchinson 4 times on 298 pass rushes. I could go on with a few more but my point is, trust me on the fact that Thibodeaux is playing better than his sack number will lead you to believe and he is on par with other rookies at the position. He is actually off to a much better start than what we saw out of Azeez Ojulari last season when looking at the big picture beyond only sacks.

Hutchinson made a great pick against the Giants, but aside from that it seems Thinodeaux has been making an impact.

from someone who should know
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