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| One NFC general manager figured the Giants' "best option'' would be to re-sign Jones this offseason. Another executive with a potential NFC playoff team said there is "no way" he would build around the 2019 No. 6 overall pick, citing what he considered an inability to win in traditional drop-back situations, and the Giants' success in Daboll's scaled-back offense. An NFL executive with experience negotiating contracts suggested a one-year deal for midlevel money would make the most sense for both parties. Something in the $15 million to $20 million range. That is assuming there won't be a big, long-term deal out there for Jones. "He's a bridge to the real future starter," the executive said. Another source pointed to the two-year, $28 million contract ($21 million guaranteed) Jameis Winston signed with the New Orleans Saints this past offseason as an example of what might work with Jones. |
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| Jones, 25, might not be so willing to make that deal. He can likely do better on the open market. He has had more recent success than Winston and isn't coming off a serious injury. But there is an inherent risk to letting Jones test his value. Quarterbacks with far more fleeting success -- Brock Osweiler, Nick Foles and Matt Flynn, to name a few -- have been paid handsomely on the open market. "While far from perfect, he's young and ascending, and upward of 12 teams will need new quarterbacks next season," ESPN NFL front-office insider Mike Tannenbaum said. "The ball-security issue that plagued him over his first three seasons [36 fumbles] is largely under control this year." Tannenbaum doesn't think Jones will get anything less than $25 million per year, citing the supply and demand with the position. |
You guys are taking every single thing i say and pulling it apart as if to say I think Jones is the best quarterback in the NFL.
He's a good quarterback playing pretty well in a pretty shitty situation. That's my opinion.
My opinion is that he will eventually get paid like a good starting quarterback, whatever the fuck that turns out to be.
You guys fighting over 5M here or there makes no difference to this discussion.
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of Bears and Trubisky.
With a real good D, Trubisky won games for the Bears. When the Bears D declined, Trubisky couldn't pick up the slack.
I don't see anyway the Giants give Jones a long term deal.
Will the Giants be able to get him on a one or two year deal? Depends on how desperate other NFL teams are.
This will be very interesting to follow.
It’s so similar to Trubisky. He has a better W/L record than Jones and took them to the playoffs getting a home playoff game.
He also made a Pro-Bowl with the Bears! All of these people saying you have to pay Jones would have been screaming to re-sign Trubisky if they were Bears fans
You guys debating this every single day isn't going to change my opinion of what will happen.
If the ship has sailed on a 4 year deal, then theres not much confidence he’s the guy.
You guys are taking every single thing i say and pulling it apart as if to say I think Jones is the best quarterback in the NFL.
He's a good quarterback playing pretty well in a pretty shitty situation. That's my opinion.
I asked you a few weeks ago on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being All Pro where you would rank Jones, and you said 8.
So just so we're clear, playing at an 8 isn't near All Pro?
That's Jones' market and his competition. And you can go in the draft and find a qb for cheap.
It's not a popularity contest, it's a business, and if you can replace the production in the factory at a lower cost, the business is going to do it.
This is exactly right. There is a pretty large tier of adequate QBs. If you pay big bucks or commit long years to one of them, you're at a big disadvantage. Both against the teams with good QBs and against the teams who are properly paying their adequate QBs.
You are repeating what i have said a million times and then asking me if i did in fact say that?
Yes, i did.
Yes, I think Jones is good and will be the franchise QB of the Giants.
What else do you want to ask me?
You are repeating what i have said a million times and then asking me if i did in fact say that?
Yes, i did.
Yes, I think Jones is good and will be the franchise QB of the Giants.
What else do you want to ask me?
Do you think Jones is playing near an All Pro level, and how much do you think Jones is worth?
Somebody will make Jones a big offer in the offseason IMO. QBs are in high demand and often as a consequence get overpaid and overdrafted. Many teams will also likely be enamored with his running, attribute any lack of success to our offensive deficiencies, and note that he has dramatically reduced his turnovers. It only takes one team to think like that, and upwards of 12 may be looking for QBs in the offseason.
For that reason, I think the Giants will have to use the FT on Jones if they want to keep him. Whether they should or not is a different decision, and one I can't make right now.
I understand what you are saying, now...
Is it Jones fault that they only have 2 qualified DTs and cannot get to the opposing QB or stop the run?
Is it Jones fault that Slayton is the only "decent" WR now that Robinson blew his knee out?
Is it Jones fault that the #1 CB is out 4-6 weeks and the #2 CB is also injured and the #1 safety effed up his hand?
I won't ask about the revolving door at OL...
If he gets them to the playoffs, he'll command a pretty decent contract. I think it now takes a miracle to make the playoffs.
QBs have good games, they have bad games. Josh Allen has played like shit recently. No, I'm not comparing the two. So don't even go there. But he has been terrible with turnovers. You think Bills fans are saying hmmmm wait a second here?
Just let the season play out and see how he's progressing with this offense instead of this back and forth bullshit every single week.
If the above were true, DJ makes perfect sense for them. Corey Davis can easily, and Carl Lawson in a calculated gamble, can free up 25 million in 2023 cap space.
Not so sure on the second part. I don’t think there’s a team out there willing to give him a a multi year deal at higher than $10-15 million yet. If the Giants offer is one year at $25 million, and the other offers are two years at a comparable total figure he’d probably take the one year deal.
I said Jones is playing like a good franchise quarterback, and will likely be paid as such. As to whatever "thats worth" i dont know man. Jesus. Contract structures are different throughout the league, it depends on the situation.
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test the market to see his value. That's the right move.
What's the downside? If he gets a great deal from another team, do we really feel bad that we are losing this transcendent talent? God, no. This isn't a Patrick Mahomes talent we're talking about here...
If this GM/HC can't find a talent to replace Jones they shouldn't be in their respective jobs.
Agreed. Give a 1 or 2 year offer at around 10–15 million and let him test the market. If he finds something better so be it.
I would offer no more than one year. But unless Jones really kills it the rest of the way, I'd rather just cut the cord and start a new era at QB.
It's worth the stretch and risk letting another team sign Jones. His skills are very replaceable.
A lot of sentimentality keeps creeping in around here again...
If they don't win another game this year, they're picking in the middle of the round (and if they win it gets lower). Not sure there's a QB in this draft to give away a boatload of picks for when there's still so much to fix.
Further, WHOEVER is back there isn't going to fare any better until they upgrade the interior OL, and address the lack of WR talent.
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situations has to work for the Panthers. I mean it’s hard to win drop back situations when you are on your back. I am not a huge Jones fan and think the bridge is where to go if there is interest on both sides, but that statement was plain ignorant. Jordan is probably talking to the coffee boy in some group
I was thinking the same things. Daniel seems capable of making all the throws. The lack of production from the pocket seems more on an inability to consistently create a pocket.
I also believe that he doesn’t see the field/reads when he drops back. While on the run the field opens up for him. Easier adjustments while on the move.
I said Jones is playing like a good franchise quarterback, and will likely be paid as such. As to whatever "thats worth" i dont know man. Jesus. Contract structures are different throughout the league, it depends on the situation.
I think just by reading these posts, one of us needs to relax, and per usual it's you little buddy.
You came on this thread and offered an opinion about the years and dollars you would have offered him.
And now when someone asks you what years and dollars you think he's worth the cat's got your brain?
Maybe this is a topic you're actually not interesting in debating and should avoid then?
This is what the Franchise Tag is there for. To protect teams from losing top tier assets when they are unable to reach a sensible agreement. Any GM worth his salt knows this. It is not there to overpay for average or below average assets, which is a path to nowhere in both cap management and team morale, not dissimilar to overpaying guys like Golladay and Williams... I can't even begin to fathom what Barkley must think every time he looks at Golladay...
Well it’s true they can get production elsewhere for less, letting Barkley walk for nothing would be rough. Even if they don’t plan to keep Barkley, they’ll tag him and trade him for more assets.
I think that's highly debatable.
Yes, $59 mill to start. The will need to go after Thomas and DLaw. Probably Julian Love also.
Once Golladay is let go, they will have a bit more.
Something will need to be done with LW's contract.
Thanks for that, c, I've been thinking that I am in a fast dwindling group that still hangs on to a notion that the obstacles to a or any QB performing well and/or to his capabilities on the NYG remains a factor in this decision making. It's made abundantly clear here by the eternal and vociferous group that Jones has 'outplayed' those questions, i.e., that his underperformance and low ceiling as a QB in their eyes transcends any set of factors surrounding his play. I remain a bit challenged in thinking those factors are fully discounted.
Simply put, this isn't a qb you hand 30mm a year to and saddle your team in a cap situation with - at best - a bottom half of the league starter. I understand that he is very likely the Giants best option for the coming season and possibly the following season. If he signs on a shorter term, reasonable deal that is likely the best approach.
I guess you missed the 5 come from behind wins he has - one with Barkley in the locker room with a shoulder injury?
Since when did $5M of annual cap space become a rounding error?
If you took a minimum salary level player and offered him $6M a year instead, wouldn't you agree that would be egregious as an overpay? It's the same amount of money being allocated to the overpay, though, as it is when you act like +/- $5M AAV on DJ is just an oh-by-the-way variance.
If we had $5M add'l space this year, we wouldn't have to contemplate restructuring dead weight like Golladay just to make ends meet this season.
These conversations would be a lot more productive if you admitted what you don't know instead of pretending like it's irrelevant just because your tiny little brain doesn't comprehend it.
Simply put, this isn't a qb you hand 30mm a year to and saddle your team in a cap situation with - at best - a bottom half of the league starter. I understand that he is very likely the Giants best option for the coming season and possibly the following season. If he signs on a shorter term, reasonable deal that is likely the best approach.
Yes. You simply don't build around this kind of QB. When you open up the offense he can not win from the pocket on a consistent basis.
I see your point, but I would counter that $5M in cap space matters regardless of whether you're overpaying a $25M guy by $5M or whether you're overpaying a $1M guy by $5M. The overall cap scenario is measured in the aggregate, so the overpay is equally wasteful either way. The only thing favorable about the $5M overpay on the $25M player (vs. on the $1M player) is that it's less of an indictment of the GM's scouting prowess when it comes to pricing player values.
I'd even go a step further and ask if this Raanan piece is state media to begin with. It sure sounds like a pretty effective way for JS & co to frame the conversation around the value they have on DJ, if where they have him is in the journeyman/bridge tier (or slightly above).
20M over the life of a 100M deal is a bigger problem than on a 200M.
But that's a secondary issue. The real question is whether Jones is a top tier QB. Because if he is, there's no chance in hell Team Jones is accepting 25M AAV.
If Jones is a top tier QB Team Jones is looking for 40M.
This is simple: do you believe Daniel Jones is as good as Derek Carr?
They have high pressure meaningful games is this is where QB's show if they have it or not. The QBGC can save the "off schedule", "arm talent", "elevate" discussions for next years draft. Most of that crew wanted to draft Willis at pick 5.
5 division games.
Great opportunity here for Jones. I am hoping both Bellinger and Neal are back quickly to give him the best chance but I think it will be pretty clear by seasons end what JS should be doing moving forward.
The rest of the season is going to decide how much that one year deal is worth, or if it turns into a long term deal.
The rest of the season is going to decide how much that one year deal is worth, or if it turns into a long term deal.
I agree. I also think it's important to remember the max that one year deal will be is about 31M, which will represent ~13.5% of the salary cap.
The 30M figure seems to be freaking everyone out, even those fans who think he's awesome. But it's just not that much money now.
Be that as it may nine quarterbacks in the NFL have an AAV of 40M -- and we're about to see three more, in Burrows, Herbert, and Hurts.
If Jones is who his big supporters think he is, they should be prepared to say he deserves 40M. That's the point I'm getting at.
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but I don't think there's much difference to paying Jones $25m a year or $30m a year. If you are paying him either it means you believe in him and plan to build around him. If he signs a deal for way under that you can pretty much see what the goals and expectations are which would primarily be buying time.
I see your point, but I would counter that $5M in cap space matters regardless of whether you're overpaying a $25M guy by $5M or whether you're overpaying a $1M guy by $5M. The overall cap scenario is measured in the aggregate, so the overpay is equally wasteful either way. The only thing favorable about the $5M overpay on the $25M player (vs. on the $1M player) is that it's less of an indictment of the GM's scouting prowess when it comes to pricing player values.
I'd even go a step further and ask if this Raanan piece is state media to begin with. It sure sounds like a pretty effective way for JS & co to frame the conversation around the value they have on DJ, if where they have him is in the journeyman/bridge tier (or slightly above).
Sure, from a cap only standpoint more is always more, savings is always savings. But I think what most people are getting at is that there's a clear starter, future QB contract and there's what's under it. And if the Giants are offering/giving Jones a longterm deal then the $5m variance is fairly insignificant (ie if he's your guy you are building your team around, the $5m shouldn't matter). I'm not saying you just give him $30m, but either figure puts him in that same boat and I have no real qualm with either figure if they like him. Now $40m+ is a different ball game both in cap hit and expected output from the player, obvious hard no on that one.
No, he's not. He's our best QB.
The best players on offense are Thomas and Barkley.
Now - that doesn't mean that Jones will get as much as that or more than that. Just because the Raiders GM paid Carr that doesn't mean Schoen is going to say ok wow we need to go at least that amount.
Dak Prescott got 4 years 40M per. Jones is as good as Prescott in my view. Put Jones on the Cowboys and they are every bit as good.
Again, doesn't mean Schoen is going to offer that. But he's worth that contract.
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That we probably have a good idea of what they’re leaning toward as of today, which would be a one year deal - otherwise they would have approached him about an extension when they did Barkley and Love.
The rest of the season is going to decide how much that one year deal is worth, or if it turns into a long term deal.
I agree. I also think it's important to remember the max that one year deal will be is about 31M, which will represent ~13.5% of the salary cap.
The 30M figure seems to be freaking everyone out, even those fans who think he's awesome. But it's just not that much money now.
Do you pay $30M to a bridge QB? It sounds like paying a ton of money to a position to still be looking to fill the position. Bad business.
Look what Cooper Rush did with Dallas while Dak is out. Why would Schoen pay $30M to be a bridge?
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And neither should get anything close to $40M
Be that as it may nine quarterbacks in the NFL have an AAV of 40M -- and we're about to see three more, in Burrows, Herbert, and Hurts.
If Jones is who his big supporters think he is, they should be prepared to say he deserves 40M. That's the point I'm getting at.
I think you can be a Jones supporter and not say he should be paid 40M. My guess is a majority of Jones supporters don't think he should get 40M. Maybe sometime in the future he'll show he deserves that, but not next yr.