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Raanan on the Daniel Jones decision

Sean : 11/22/2022 7:54 am
This is a good article. And before everyone complains about “another Daniel Jones thread”, I’d argue there should be a pinned thread on Jones. It seems like many people keep saying “QB is set” while forgetting that Jones is a pending free agent. So is Barkley. This is an unprecedented situation for a NFL franchise that is 7-3.

Quote:
One NFC general manager figured the Giants' "best option'' would be to re-sign Jones this offseason. Another executive with a potential NFC playoff team said there is "no way" he would build around the 2019 No. 6 overall pick, citing what he considered an inability to win in traditional drop-back situations, and the Giants' success in Daboll's scaled-back offense.

An NFL executive with experience negotiating contracts suggested a one-year deal for midlevel money would make the most sense for both parties. Something in the $15 million to $20 million range.

That is assuming there won't be a big, long-term deal out there for Jones.

"He's a bridge to the real future starter," the executive said.

Another source pointed to the two-year, $28 million contract ($21 million guaranteed) Jameis Winston signed with the New Orleans Saints this past offseason as an example of what might work with Jones.

Quote:
Jones, 25, might not be so willing to make that deal. He can likely do better on the open market. He has had more recent success than Winston and isn't coming off a serious injury.

But there is an inherent risk to letting Jones test his value. Quarterbacks with far more fleeting success -- Brock Osweiler, Nick Foles and Matt Flynn, to name a few -- have been paid handsomely on the open market.

"While far from perfect, he's young and ascending, and upward of 12 teams will need new quarterbacks next season," ESPN NFL front-office insider Mike Tannenbaum said. "The ball-security issue that plagued him over his first three seasons [36 fumbles] is largely under control this year."

Tannenbaum doesn't think Jones will get anything less than $25 million per year, citing the supply and demand with the position.

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RE: ...  
bw in dc : 11/22/2022 11:24 am : link
In comment 15917872 christian said:
Quote:


This is simple: do you believe Daniel Jones is as good as Derek Carr?


I don't - no.

But I think the question needs to be this: do you feel great that Jones is the solution to lead this team deep into contention?

IMV, if you can't get there intellectually, we are wasting time as an organization.
RE: Carr is a different QB  
christian : 11/22/2022 11:24 am : link
In comment 15917925 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
hard to compare the two but I suspect Jones means more to the Giants than Carr to the Raiders, for whatever that's worth. It goes right back to the same old questions though - how much better would Jones be throwing to a Devante Adams or a Waller, etc. Better for sure, but I don't know how much - hopefully Schoen does.


Yeah, the market says Carr is worth 40M a year. And if the Raiders blow it up and cut Carr, I bet he'd get about the same on the open market.

I think it's weird when fans like ryanmkeane insist Jones is a top tier QB, but can't manage to type the simple keystrokes He deserves 40M a year.
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2022 11:25 am : link
christian - Jones is the franchise QB. Whatever Schoen ends up paying him, i don't want to say "who cares" but they'll have to figure that out and continue to build the roster around him. Is he going to offer him 40M a year? No, he probably won't.

But as I said before, if Jones gets a 30M offer from the Giants and a 37M a year offer from some other team, he's not going to leave. The guaranteed money will be somewhat similar anyway.
RE: RE: I am not sure how terribly difficult this is...  
speedywheels : 11/22/2022 11:26 am : link
In comment 15917856 Producer said:
Quote:



Yes. You simply don't build around this kind of QB. When you open up the offense he can not win from the pocket on a consistent basis.


LOL - what weapons do they have to "open up the offense"? Especially now that Wandale is out.

Sills? James? Jonhson?

LOLOLOLOL...
RE: RE: RE: Daniel Jones is not as good as Derek Carr  
christian : 11/22/2022 11:26 am : link
In comment 15917934 Dr. D said:
Quote:
If Jones is who his big supporters think he is, they should be prepared to say he deserves 40M. That's the point I'm getting at.

I think you can be a Jones supporter and not say he should be paid 40M. My guess is a majority of Jones supporters don't think he should get 40M. Maybe sometime in the future he'll show he deserves that, but not next yr.


There's a very good chance 12 quarterbacks in the NFL make 40M + AAV next year.

Is Jones a top third QB in the NFL?
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2022 11:27 am : link
christian - you and ajr have an obsession with trying to get me to say something that you want to hear.

I don't know how many times I can say this, maybe a hundred at this point? Jones is worth whatever the Giants pay him because he'll be the franchise QB that leads the team. If that's 35M...40M....30M...i really dont give a shit to be honest.

You guys did this same thing with Leonard Williams. You didn't think he was worth that amount per year because you thought it was however much less because of the market. Well as it turns out he's worth that amount.
RE: ...  
christian : 11/22/2022 11:28 am : link
In comment 15917939 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
christian - Jones is the franchise QB. Whatever Schoen ends up paying him, i don't want to say "who cares" but they'll have to figure that out and continue to build the roster around him. Is he going to offer him 40M a year? No, he probably won't.

But as I said before, if Jones gets a 30M offer from the Giants and a 37M a year offer from some other team, he's not going to leave. The guaranteed money will be somewhat similar anyway.


If another team offers nearly 20% more in AAV, why would the guaranteed money be similar. That makes no sense.
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2022 11:30 am : link
christian, you do understand that people earn their contracts based on future performance and projection too correct?
RE: ...  
christian : 11/22/2022 11:30 am : link
In comment 15917945 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I don't know how many times I can say this, maybe a hundred at this point? Jones is worth whatever the Giants pay him because he'll be the franchise QB that leads the team. If that's 35M...40M....30M...i really dont give a shit to be honest.


OK, cool. You don't give a shit. That's all you had to say a million threads ago little buddy.

RE: ...  
joeinpa : 11/22/2022 11:31 am : link
In comment 15917782 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
this is every single week with you guys. he plays well, he's the guy! he plays ok....oh hmmmm maybe we need to see more. he has a bad game....wow he's definitely not the guy!

QBs have good games, they have bad games. Josh Allen has played like shit recently. No, I'm not comparing the two. So don't even go there. But he has been terrible with turnovers. You think Bills fans are saying hmmmm wait a second here?


It s not every game, it the every play.
Just let the season play out and see how he's progressing with this offense instead of this back and forth bullshit every single week.
Carr got badly overpaid  
Producer : 11/22/2022 11:32 am : link
Do you want to repeat the Raiders' mistake with Daniel Jones.
RE: RE: ...  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2022 11:32 am : link
In comment 15917946 christian said:
Quote:



If another team offers nearly 20% more in AAV, why would the guaranteed money be similar. That makes no sense.

It makes no sense? It happens all the time. You are just arguing for arguing sake now.

As I said, Jones will get paid and he's not leaving the Giants for some other stupid team unless said team does something like offer him Mahomes level money which is not happening obviously.

We can talk about this forever but it will end up being the same conclusion. Schoen will work out the financials just fine, however many years it ends up being.

I wouldn't be shocked if they franchised him. Get more support and another year in the system and be even more comfortable with the decision then. You'd have to pay him more at that time but if that helps you sleep better at night that he's only on a 1 year deal, that's fine.
...  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2022 11:34 am : link
christian, i'm saying i don't give a shit whether it is 30M or 40M. That makes no difference to me.
I keep going back and forth on this.  
Matt M. : 11/22/2022 11:36 am : link
My gut is that there is no way I would pay him $20M, let alone the $35M tag or a deal that averages anything close to that $35M number. On the flip side, I can see the market falling somewhere in between those numbers just because so many teams need a QB and there are only so many to go around.

Part of the problem is if we don't re-sign him, we won't have a strong enough pick for a top QB. Perhaps our new regime can find an option for bottom of the round or 2nd round. But, more importantly, with the Toney trade, spate of injuries, and Golladay a bust, we will more likely need to go WR in round 1.

The other point to go back and forth on is really what we have in Jones. He absolutely has improved. But, the starting point was so low, I'm not sure where that places him. I think he is outside the top 12 in the league. While a rookie could set them back a bit, I think the right rookie can perform similarly to Jones in this offense, since Jones is not being asked to win games with his arm. I think Sunday showed a little bit why. He is still a good QB and one who can win in the right situation. But, my gut tells me he just isn't a guy who is going to take over a game when they need to throw. I think there is a reason Daboll and Kafka pull in the reins on the passing game that is not isolated to the WR or OL.

I've said all along, I wouldn't mind re-signing him, but not at the market rate. I would like to see a more reasonable 2 or 3 year deal, with a decent amount guaranteed, but overall average of the $15M/per range, plus incentives. I don't think he'll sign that.

Ironically, this could be the offseason that we finally seem to finish shoring up the OL and really address WR, but end up with no QB.
RE: RE: Carr is a different QB  
UConn4523 : 11/22/2022 11:38 am : link
In comment 15917937 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15917925 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


hard to compare the two but I suspect Jones means more to the Giants than Carr to the Raiders, for whatever that's worth. It goes right back to the same old questions though - how much better would Jones be throwing to a Devante Adams or a Waller, etc. Better for sure, but I don't know how much - hopefully Schoen does.



Yeah, the market says Carr is worth 40M a year. And if the Raiders blow it up and cut Carr, I bet he'd get about the same on the open market.

I think it's weird when fans like ryanmkeane insist Jones is a top tier QB, but can't manage to type the simple keystrokes He deserves 40M a year.


Can't comment on other poster's POV's but everything so far with Jones has been atypical so I can actually see an atypical contract being signed by him either here or somewhere else. I also think contracts to Watson, Rodgers, Wilson, Murray, Dak, etc might finally be showing enough data to correct the QB market a bit. I think the sure fire stud sub-30 QB's are going to get north of $40m per year but it wouldn't shock me at all to see the market regress (as a % to the cap) for those QB's that don't meet at that level.

In sum, I can very much see the NFL foregoing giving the next guy up a market rate contract at QB unless they are elite, and young.
Jones has NINE passing touchdowns on the year. NINE  
japanhead : 11/22/2022 11:38 am : link
Marcus Mariota has 13 passing TDs. Brissett has 11.

Burrow has 22, Allen 21.

There are just two starting QBs who have single-digit (fewer than 10) passing touchdowns on the year: Daniel Jones (9) and Russell Wilson (7).

I don't see how they can justify paying Jones anywhere near $25 mil per, or even 15-20 tbh, when he is producing so little in the passing game.

You can easily get his production or better from a marginal journeyman-type player.

I'm beyond sick of the injury/rest of the roster excuses.

Jones is arguably the worst quarterback in the division, and yes, I'm putting him behind Taylor Heinicke.

For the amount of money being talked about ($20 mil - $35 mil) they should move on no question.
RE: Jones has NINE passing touchdowns on the year. NINE  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2022 11:41 am : link
In comment 15917970 japanhead said:
Quote:


Jones is arguably the worst quarterback in the division, and yes, I'm putting him behind Taylor Heinicke.

For the amount of money being talked about ($20 mil - $35 mil) they should move on no question.

Something tells me you'll be regretting that statement after our two games against Washington.
I think Jones is as good as Carr - and I wouldn't pay either $40M  
PatersonPlank : 11/22/2022 11:41 am : link
I personally believe after you get past the first 7 or 8 QBs (Mahomes, Allen, Burrows, Brady, Rodgers, Herbert, Lamar, maybe 1 other) then the next 10-12 are all pretty much the same. We can argue if Hurts for example should be in there, but then I'd argue that Brady is over the hill and should be out). So your 8 may be different but you get the point.

Having said that I see no difference on the Giants between having Cousin, Tannehill, Carr, Jones, Tua, Murray, Lawrence, Jimmy G, etc. Each has strengths and weaknesses, and we'd be back in the mode of creating an offense to support Murrays running (or putting in a pocket passing attack because Cousins can't run).

This is the dilema. If you don't have on of the top guys you will be in this mode, and its hard getting one of the top guys. So most teams build around what they have.

As an aside I still hold out hope for Lawrence, I think he can be like Herbert eventually.
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Producer : 11/22/2022 11:42 am : link
In comment 15917954 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15917946 christian said:


Quote:





If another team offers nearly 20% more in AAV, why would the guaranteed money be similar. That makes no sense.


It makes no sense? It happens all the time. You are just arguing for arguing sake now.

As I said, Jones will get paid and he's not leaving the Giants for some other stupid team unless said team does something like offer him Mahomes level money which is not happening obviously.

We can talk about this forever but it will end up being the same conclusion. Schoen will work out the financials just fine, however many years it ends up being.

I wouldn't be shocked if they franchised him. Get more support and another year in the system and be even more comfortable with the decision then. You'd have to pay him more at that time but if that helps you sleep better at night that he's only on a 1 year deal, that's fine.


That's two absolute assertions by you. Both are far from absolutely certain.

1. It is not clear Jones is getting mega dollars. That's the whole point of the article. There are execs saying you can't build around Jones.
2. It's not clear Jones won't go to another team. He won't take less to stay here. That's a fantasy. Football is a business. And this might be Jones' one shot at a big pay day.
Why  
Scooter185 : 11/22/2022 11:50 am : link
Would Jones sign a 2yr/$15MM contract, unless that's the best offer he got. And if that's the best offer he gets, that tells you what the GMs as a whole think about him.

And you can put the thought of a hometown discount out of your head. The only time players, in any sport, are taking discounts is in extensions or maybe final contracts before retiring. Getting to FA means taking the best offer, and that's what DJs agent and the PA are going to push for.
RE: RE: Jones has NINE passing touchdowns on the year. NINE  
section125 : 11/22/2022 11:53 am : link
In comment 15917976 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15917970 japanhead said:


Quote:




Jones is arguably the worst quarterback in the division, and yes, I'm putting him behind Taylor Heinicke.

For the amount of money being talked about ($20 mil - $35 mil) they should move on no question.


Something tells me you'll be regretting that statement after our two games against Washington.


Heinicke has done well against the Giants and they have real WRs..
RE: Why  
Matt M. : 11/22/2022 11:54 am : link
In comment 15917997 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
Would Jones sign a 2yr/$15MM contract, unless that's the best offer he got. And if that's the best offer he gets, that tells you what the GMs as a whole think about him.

And you can put the thought of a hometown discount out of your head. The only time players, in any sport, are taking discounts is in extensions or maybe final contracts before retiring. Getting to FA means taking the best offer, and that's what DJs agent and the PA are going to push for.
2 years @ $15M PER. Of the $30M, guarantee most of it ($20M+) to entice him. I'm not saying he would take it. But, that's where I think he belongs.
The one thing I would not do is franchise him  
Matt M. : 11/22/2022 11:56 am : link
There is no way I would guarantee $35M for another season of can Jones prove himself. They either have to commit to him based on the expectation that they get a couple of good WRs and the OL rounds into place with Gates back at OC and the rookies continuing to improve, OR, they say it's time to move on and think they can get similar production from a well scouted rookie or a cheaper FA.
It’s a simple question to just say what you think  
ajr2456 : 11/22/2022 11:57 am : link
He’s worth right now. Nobody is going to hold it against you if you’re off $5 million. What would you pay Daniel Jones right now?

Instead you’ll do what you always do, say let it play out and then try to chest pump around on a victory lap about being right.
RE: The Giant have $59,005,817 in cap space next year  
GMen72 : 11/22/2022 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15917804 GeofromNJ said:
Quote:
according to overthecap website. I would offer Jones a multi-year deal at a reasonable cost and if he rejects it, franchise him and draft or trade for a quarterback in 2024. Jones is more valuable than Barkley. Barkley can be replaced by a second or third round running back. The Giants need a better O line and better receivers far more than they need Barkley. The Lions game demonstrated that.


A top 3 running back in the NFL is easily replaced, but a QB that isn't in the top 20 in any meaningful passing stat is a must keep because the Giants can't replace him?

This fanbase and its love for DJ is just silly!
..  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2022 12:01 pm : link
ajr, i already answered this question, are you reading this thread at all? I would pay him 40M a year. Do you want me to say it again one more time? Fuck dude.
Franchising Jones is a waste of money...  
bw in dc : 11/22/2022 12:01 pm : link
I'd rather use that money to build a better team in other areas and roll with a rookie QB.
It’s not just draft vs Jones either  
Sean : 11/22/2022 12:02 pm : link
What if Garoppolo is available? A player who Daboll knows. We don’t know what veteran QB’s may be available that Schoen/Daboll view as an upgrade.

It’s fascinating. I don’t get the “let it play out crowd”. That seems like denial to me. The fact is two of the most important offensive pieces on the team are pending free agents with a 7-3 team.
RE: Franchising Jones is a waste of money...  
Sean : 11/22/2022 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15918025 bw in dc said:
Quote:
I'd rather use that money to build a better team in other areas and roll with a rookie QB.

Bingo. $30M for Jones just to be a bridge QB? That’s absurd.
RE: ..  
ajr2456 : 11/22/2022 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15918023 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
ajr, i already answered this question, are you reading this thread at all? I would pay him 40M a year. Do you want me to say it again one more time? Fuck dude.


No you said you don’t care what the numbers is, you’re fine with what ever the Giants pay him even if it’s 40. That’s hedging. That’s fine, but then you shouldn’t be getting so worked about people having varying opinions week to week on what they’d pay Jones.
RE: It’s not just draft vs Jones either  
Matt M. : 11/22/2022 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15918028 Sean said:
Quote:
What if Garoppolo is available? A player who Daboll knows. We don’t know what veteran QB’s may be available that Schoen/Daboll view as an upgrade.

It’s fascinating. I don’t get the “let it play out crowd”. That seems like denial to me. The fact is two of the most important offensive pieces on the team are pending free agents with a 7-3 team.
I'd take Garoppolo easily.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones is not as good as Derek Carr  
GMen72 : 11/22/2022 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15917918 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 15917909 Jerry in_DC said:


Quote:


And neither should get anything close to $40M



Be that as it may nine quarterbacks in the NFL have an AAV of 40M -- and we're about to see three more, in Burrows, Herbert, and Hurts.

If Jones is who his big supporters think he is, they should be prepared to say he deserves 40M. That's the point I'm getting at.


In what world is Jones even close to the same to Burrow, Herbert, and even Hurts in production? The numbers being thrown around for DJs level of production are insane. If this team was 4-6, with DJs level of production, nobody would want to keep him...but because the defense and run game have won games, people act like DJ is a must keep. He's average, at best, and he's not the main reason we're a winning team.
RE: ..  
japanhead : 11/22/2022 12:15 pm : link
In comment 15918023 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
ajr, i already answered this question, are you reading this thread at all? I would pay him 40M a year. Do you want me to say it again one more time? Fuck dude.


You'd pay Jones 40mil a year? Seriously?

The guy has never sniffed a winning record and looked like crap against the worst passing defense in football?

Jones is underperforming relative to never-was guys like Marcus Mariota and has arguably played worse than Heinicke, who started the season as a backup.

Justin Fields has more passing TDs than Jones. Shit, he has almost twice as many rush TDs.

Over the last 3.5 seasons, by any measure-- wins, yards, TDs, whatever you want to look at-- Jones has been a bottom 5 quarterback, if not bottom 3.

So you would rush to pay him 40 mil a year and build out the WR, OL, TE, and ILB units on a low budget?

And then rush to be his gallant defender when he throws 0.7 TDs a game next season like he has the last 2 and a half seasons?

Laughable man! HA-HA!

He was looking a little better than last year during the 6-1 stretch, but these last three games he's shown that he's pretty much the same guy he's been. No one should pay that guy 40 million a year, or even half that tbh.

You're silly.
RE: I think Jones is as good as Carr - and I wouldn't pay either $40M  
GMen72 : 11/22/2022 12:16 pm : link
In comment 15917978 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
I personally believe after you get past the first 7 or 8 QBs (Mahomes, Allen, Burrows, Brady, Rodgers, Herbert, Lamar, maybe 1 other) then the next 10-12 are all pretty much the same. We can argue if Hurts for example should be in there, but then I'd argue that Brady is over the hill and should be out). So your 8 may be different but you get the point.

Having said that I see no difference on the Giants between having Cousin, Tannehill, Carr, Jones, Tua, Murray, Lawrence, Jimmy G, etc. Each has strengths and weaknesses, and we'd be back in the mode of creating an offense to support Murrays running (or putting in a pocket passing attack because Cousins can't run).

This is the dilema. If you don't have on of the top guys you will be in this mode, and its hard getting one of the top guys. So most teams build around what they have.

As an aside I still hold out hope for Lawrence, I think he can be like Herbert eventually.


Those top 8 QBs are winning 100% of the Super Bowls. So, you continue to try to find a SB caliber QB, or you're playing for a playoff spot, nothing more.

If you asked the Raiders, Cardinals, and Titans if they'd sign their guys all over again, they'd all say no. So, why should the Giants be any different?

Jones isn't ever leading a franchise to a SB win, so move on. There's nothing gained by being the Cardinals or Raiders. You're either a true SB contender, or you're not...that has to be the goal.
Heinecke  
ajr2456 : 11/22/2022 12:18 pm : link
Hasn’t been better than Jones yet this year.
RE: RE: ..  
Producer : 11/22/2022 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15918047 japanhead said:
Quote:
In comment 15918023 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


ajr, i already answered this question, are you reading this thread at all? I would pay him 40M a year. Do you want me to say it again one more time? Fuck dude.



You'd pay Jones 40mil a year? Seriously?

The guy has never sniffed a winning record and looked like crap against the worst passing defense in football?

Jones is underperforming relative to never-was guys like Marcus Mariota and has arguably played worse than Heinicke, who started the season as a backup.

Justin Fields has more passing TDs than Jones. Shit, he has almost twice as many rush TDs.

Over the last 3.5 seasons, by any measure-- wins, yards, TDs, whatever you want to look at-- Jones has been a bottom 5 quarterback, if not bottom 3.

So you would rush to pay him 40 mil a year and build out the WR, OL, TE, and ILB units on a low budget?

And then rush to be his gallant defender when he throws 0.7 TDs a game next season like he has the last 2 and a half seasons?

Laughable man! HA-HA!

He was looking a little better than last year during the 6-1 stretch, but these last three games he's shown that he's pretty much the same guy he's been. No one should pay that guy 40 million a year, or even half that tbh.

You're silly.


Well said. It's as though there is no logic. They just want Jones and will settle for total mediocrity.
I know this is a long thread  
Jim in Forest Hills : 11/22/2022 12:22 pm : link
but I think Schoen will have a number for Jones he wont go past. Is it 25M, 30M who knows. At that point we'll see what Jones wants to do. I don't think we are seeing a 100% have to lock him up conversation because I think it would be done by now (and I think rules out 40M+). I like Jones, I do but he could be Salieri to our potential Mozart.
japanhead  
ryanmkeane : 11/22/2022 12:25 pm : link
"Jones has never sniffed a winning record" well I guess if you aren't counting the games he is playing in the current season? Are you counting those?
RE: RE: RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 11/22/2022 12:26 pm : link
In comment 15917954 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
As I said, Jones will get paid and he's not leaving the Giants for some other stupid team unless said team does something like offer him Mahomes level money which is not happening obviously.

This reads like it was written by a middle school student: "he's not leaving the Giants for some other stupid team"
RE: ..  
Matt M. : 11/22/2022 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15918023 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
ajr, i already answered this question, are you reading this thread at all? I would pay him 40M a year. Do you want me to say it again one more time? Fuck dude.
You'd pay him $40M? You want something like 30% of the cap on Jones and Williams, when Dexter needs to be re-signed, they have to think about Love, potentially need a FA OL, etc.
I think they key will be Geno Smith  
UConn4523 : 11/22/2022 12:31 pm : link
will he sign first? If so that should give you a good idea of what to expect for Jones in regards to actual years and dollars. All the other comps won’t matter at that point.
RE: japanhead  
japanhead : 11/22/2022 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15918062 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
"Jones has never sniffed a winning record" well I guess if you aren't counting the games he is playing in the current season? Are you counting those?


I'm talking about completed seasons obviously, you goon.

But, go ahead and add up his W/L total for 3.5 years and tell me what you come up with.

Or perhaps you would like to address any substantive point in my post?

Like Jones being one of the least productive starters in the league over his NFL career up through 2022 week 11, and that paying 40 million a year for that kind of production is lunacy?
RE: RE: I think Jones is as good as Carr - and I wouldn't pay either $40M  
PatersonPlank : 11/22/2022 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15918049 GMen72 said:
Quote:
In comment 15917978 PatersonPlank said:


Quote:


I personally believe after you get past the first 7 or 8 QBs (Mahomes, Allen, Burrows, Brady, Rodgers, Herbert, Lamar, maybe 1 other) then the next 10-12 are all pretty much the same. We can argue if Hurts for example should be in there, but then I'd argue that Brady is over the hill and should be out). So your 8 may be different but you get the point.

Having said that I see no difference on the Giants between having Cousin, Tannehill, Carr, Jones, Tua, Murray, Lawrence, Jimmy G, etc. Each has strengths and weaknesses, and we'd be back in the mode of creating an offense to support Murrays running (or putting in a pocket passing attack because Cousins can't run).

This is the dilema. If you don't have on of the top guys you will be in this mode, and its hard getting one of the top guys. So most teams build around what they have.

As an aside I still hold out hope for Lawrence, I think he can be like Herbert eventually.



Those top 8 QBs are winning 100% of the Super Bowls. So, you continue to try to find a SB caliber QB, or you're playing for a playoff spot, nothing more.

If you asked the Raiders, Cardinals, and Titans if they'd sign their guys all over again, they'd all say no. So, why should the Giants be any different?

Jones isn't ever leading a franchise to a SB win, so move on. There's nothing gained by being the Cardinals or Raiders. You're either a true SB contender, or you're not...that has to be the goal.


Not saying we should, I believe we are agreeing here. Sure if you look at the Carrs/Jones/Tannehills of the world you will see some with better stats than the others, but I would submit it has to do with the quality of the surrounding team. All these guys are in a sense managing the game, not really driving it like Mahomes. Give them a top supporting cast and they can get the job done.

So I would look around and see who is the best deal, and also draft a QB you like to try and "hit the lottery". If thats Jones fine, if its Carr fine, if its xxxx fine
RE: RE: Why  
Scooter185 : 11/22/2022 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15918007 Matt M. said:
Quote:
In comment 15917997 Scooter185 said:


Quote:


Would Jones sign a 2yr/$15MM contract, unless that's the best offer he got. And if that's the best offer he gets, that tells you what the GMs as a whole think about him.

And you can put the thought of a hometown discount out of your head. The only time players, in any sport, are taking discounts is in extensions or maybe final contracts before retiring. Getting to FA means taking the best offer, and that's what DJs agent and the PA are going to push for.

2 years @ $15M PER. Of the $30M, guarantee most of it ($20M+) to entice him. I'm not saying he would take it. But, that's where I think he belongs.


That's fair, but again that's kind of contract indicates he's not a franchise guy and why not start over?

Yes they could end up drafting a worse QB, but for the sake of argument let's say they drafted a clone of Jones, the economics make that a better play than giving him a 2nd contract
Jones is a bridge to the future starter  
JonC : 11/22/2022 12:46 pm : link
The only question is when is the future, and do they offer Jones a deal beyond this season based on him being the best bridge option for 2023. I really don't expect NYG to FT Jones. If they really feel he's worth the FT, then an extension should be completed.
RE: Jones is a bridge to the future starter  
Sean : 11/22/2022 12:50 pm : link
In comment 15918096 JonC said:
Quote:
The only question is when is the future, and do they offer Jones a deal beyond this season based on him being the best bridge option for 2023. I really don't expect NYG to FT Jones. If they really feel he's worth the FT, then an extension should be completed.

Exactly. If he’s worth $30M then he’s worth a long term deal. Otherwise you’re paying for a position that you still need at an absurd cost.
$40 million dollars for Daniel Jones is something  
NYGgolfer : 11/22/2022 12:51 pm : link
I cannot wrap my head around. And I think Jones has shown decent development in some areas this season, but nowhere near enough to offer up that.

And other teams previously making contract mistakes with their respective middle tier QBs doesn't mean Schoen should follow suit.

Realize the roster still has a long way to go, and hope Schoen/Daboll keep rebuilding it in a smart fashion.

Jones is better than Murray  
Carl in CT : 11/22/2022 1:02 pm : link
As you know I’m a Jones supporter but I don’t pay him what Kyler makes.
RE: Jones is a bridge to the future starter  
thefan : 11/22/2022 1:05 pm : link
In comment 15918096 JonC said:
Quote:
The only question is when is the future, and do they offer Jones a deal beyond this season based on him being the best bridge option for 2023. I really don't expect NYG to FT Jones. If they really feel he's worth the FT, then an extension should be completed.


Are you sure that bridge isn't named Tyrod Taylor?
RE: RE: RE: Daniel Jones is not as good as Derek Carr  
Ron Johnson : 11/22/2022 1:08 pm : link
In comment 15918036 GMen72 said:
Quote:
In comment 15917918 christian said:


Quote:


In comment 15917909 Jerry in_DC said:


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And neither should get anything close to $40M



Be that as it may nine quarterbacks in the NFL have an AAV of 40M -- and we're about to see three more, in Burrows, Herbert, and Hurts.

If Jones is who his big supporters think he is, they should be prepared to say he deserves 40M. That's the point I'm getting at.



In what world is Jones even close to the same to Burrow, Herbert, and even Hurts in production? The numbers being thrown around for DJs level of production are insane. If this team was 4-6, with DJs level of production, nobody would want to keep him...but because the defense and run game have won games, people act like DJ is a must keep. He's average, at best, and he's not the main reason we're a winning team.



In the total QBR world.
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