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One NFC general manager figured the Giants' "best option'' would be to re-sign Jones this offseason. Another executive with a potential NFC playoff team said there is "no way" he would build around the 2019 No. 6 overall pick, citing what he considered an inability to win in traditional drop-back situations, and the Giants' success in Daboll's scaled-back offense. An NFL executive with experience negotiating contracts suggested a one-year deal for midlevel money would make the most sense for both parties. Something in the $15 million to $20 million range. That is assuming there won't be a big, long-term deal out there for Jones. "He's a bridge to the real future starter," the executive said. Another source pointed to the two-year, $28 million contract ($21 million guaranteed) Jameis Winston signed with the New Orleans Saints this past offseason as an example of what might work with Jones. |
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Jones, 25, might not be so willing to make that deal. He can likely do better on the open market. He has had more recent success than Winston and isn't coming off a serious injury. But there is an inherent risk to letting Jones test his value. Quarterbacks with far more fleeting success -- Brock Osweiler, Nick Foles and Matt Flynn, to name a few -- have been paid handsomely on the open market. "While far from perfect, he's young and ascending, and upward of 12 teams will need new quarterbacks next season," ESPN NFL front-office insider Mike Tannenbaum said. "The ball-security issue that plagued him over his first three seasons [36 fumbles] is largely under control this year." Tannenbaum doesn't think Jones will get anything less than $25 million per year, citing the supply and demand with the position. |
This is simple: do you believe Daniel Jones is as good as Derek Carr?
I don't - no.
But I think the question needs to be this: do you feel great that Jones is the solution to lead this team deep into contention?
IMV, if you can't get there intellectually, we are wasting time as an organization.
Yeah, the market says Carr is worth 40M a year. And if the Raiders blow it up and cut Carr, I bet he'd get about the same on the open market.
I think it's weird when fans like ryanmkeane insist Jones is a top tier QB, but can't manage to type the simple keystrokes He deserves 40M a year.
But as I said before, if Jones gets a 30M offer from the Giants and a 37M a year offer from some other team, he's not going to leave. The guaranteed money will be somewhat similar anyway.
Yes. You simply don't build around this kind of QB. When you open up the offense he can not win from the pocket on a consistent basis.
LOL - what weapons do they have to "open up the offense"? Especially now that Wandale is out.
Sills? James? Jonhson?
LOLOLOLOL...
I think you can be a Jones supporter and not say he should be paid 40M. My guess is a majority of Jones supporters don't think he should get 40M. Maybe sometime in the future he'll show he deserves that, but not next yr.
There's a very good chance 12 quarterbacks in the NFL make 40M + AAV next year.
Is Jones a top third QB in the NFL?
I don't know how many times I can say this, maybe a hundred at this point? Jones is worth whatever the Giants pay him because he'll be the franchise QB that leads the team. If that's 35M...40M....30M...i really dont give a shit to be honest.
You guys did this same thing with Leonard Williams. You didn't think he was worth that amount per year because you thought it was however much less because of the market. Well as it turns out he's worth that amount.
But as I said before, if Jones gets a 30M offer from the Giants and a 37M a year offer from some other team, he's not going to leave. The guaranteed money will be somewhat similar anyway.
If another team offers nearly 20% more in AAV, why would the guaranteed money be similar. That makes no sense.
OK, cool. You don't give a shit. That's all you had to say a million threads ago little buddy.
QBs have good games, they have bad games. Josh Allen has played like shit recently. No, I'm not comparing the two. So don't even go there. But he has been terrible with turnovers. You think Bills fans are saying hmmmm wait a second here?
It s not every game, it the every play.
Just let the season play out and see how he's progressing with this offense instead of this back and forth bullshit every single week.
If another team offers nearly 20% more in AAV, why would the guaranteed money be similar. That makes no sense.
It makes no sense? It happens all the time. You are just arguing for arguing sake now.
As I said, Jones will get paid and he's not leaving the Giants for some other stupid team unless said team does something like offer him Mahomes level money which is not happening obviously.
We can talk about this forever but it will end up being the same conclusion. Schoen will work out the financials just fine, however many years it ends up being.
I wouldn't be shocked if they franchised him. Get more support and another year in the system and be even more comfortable with the decision then. You'd have to pay him more at that time but if that helps you sleep better at night that he's only on a 1 year deal, that's fine.
Part of the problem is if we don't re-sign him, we won't have a strong enough pick for a top QB. Perhaps our new regime can find an option for bottom of the round or 2nd round. But, more importantly, with the Toney trade, spate of injuries, and Golladay a bust, we will more likely need to go WR in round 1.
The other point to go back and forth on is really what we have in Jones. He absolutely has improved. But, the starting point was so low, I'm not sure where that places him. I think he is outside the top 12 in the league. While a rookie could set them back a bit, I think the right rookie can perform similarly to Jones in this offense, since Jones is not being asked to win games with his arm. I think Sunday showed a little bit why. He is still a good QB and one who can win in the right situation. But, my gut tells me he just isn't a guy who is going to take over a game when they need to throw. I think there is a reason Daboll and Kafka pull in the reins on the passing game that is not isolated to the WR or OL.
I've said all along, I wouldn't mind re-signing him, but not at the market rate. I would like to see a more reasonable 2 or 3 year deal, with a decent amount guaranteed, but overall average of the $15M/per range, plus incentives. I don't think he'll sign that.
Ironically, this could be the offseason that we finally seem to finish shoring up the OL and really address WR, but end up with no QB.
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hard to compare the two but I suspect Jones means more to the Giants than Carr to the Raiders, for whatever that's worth. It goes right back to the same old questions though - how much better would Jones be throwing to a Devante Adams or a Waller, etc. Better for sure, but I don't know how much - hopefully Schoen does.
Yeah, the market says Carr is worth 40M a year. And if the Raiders blow it up and cut Carr, I bet he'd get about the same on the open market.
I think it's weird when fans like ryanmkeane insist Jones is a top tier QB, but can't manage to type the simple keystrokes He deserves 40M a year.
Can't comment on other poster's POV's but everything so far with Jones has been atypical so I can actually see an atypical contract being signed by him either here or somewhere else. I also think contracts to Watson, Rodgers, Wilson, Murray, Dak, etc might finally be showing enough data to correct the QB market a bit. I think the sure fire stud sub-30 QB's are going to get north of $40m per year but it wouldn't shock me at all to see the market regress (as a % to the cap) for those QB's that don't meet at that level.
In sum, I can very much see the NFL foregoing giving the next guy up a market rate contract at QB unless they are elite, and young.
Burrow has 22, Allen 21.
There are just two starting QBs who have single-digit (fewer than 10) passing touchdowns on the year: Daniel Jones (9) and Russell Wilson (7).
I don't see how they can justify paying Jones anywhere near $25 mil per, or even 15-20 tbh, when he is producing so little in the passing game.
You can easily get his production or better from a marginal journeyman-type player.
I'm beyond sick of the injury/rest of the roster excuses.
Jones is arguably the worst quarterback in the division, and yes, I'm putting him behind Taylor Heinicke.
For the amount of money being talked about ($20 mil - $35 mil) they should move on no question.
Jones is arguably the worst quarterback in the division, and yes, I'm putting him behind Taylor Heinicke.
For the amount of money being talked about ($20 mil - $35 mil) they should move on no question.
Something tells me you'll be regretting that statement after our two games against Washington.
Having said that I see no difference on the Giants between having Cousin, Tannehill, Carr, Jones, Tua, Murray, Lawrence, Jimmy G, etc. Each has strengths and weaknesses, and we'd be back in the mode of creating an offense to support Murrays running (or putting in a pocket passing attack because Cousins can't run).
This is the dilema. If you don't have on of the top guys you will be in this mode, and its hard getting one of the top guys. So most teams build around what they have.
As an aside I still hold out hope for Lawrence, I think he can be like Herbert eventually.
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If another team offers nearly 20% more in AAV, why would the guaranteed money be similar. That makes no sense.
It makes no sense? It happens all the time. You are just arguing for arguing sake now.
As I said, Jones will get paid and he's not leaving the Giants for some other stupid team unless said team does something like offer him Mahomes level money which is not happening obviously.
We can talk about this forever but it will end up being the same conclusion. Schoen will work out the financials just fine, however many years it ends up being.
I wouldn't be shocked if they franchised him. Get more support and another year in the system and be even more comfortable with the decision then. You'd have to pay him more at that time but if that helps you sleep better at night that he's only on a 1 year deal, that's fine.
That's two absolute assertions by you. Both are far from absolutely certain.
1. It is not clear Jones is getting mega dollars. That's the whole point of the article. There are execs saying you can't build around Jones.
2. It's not clear Jones won't go to another team. He won't take less to stay here. That's a fantasy. Football is a business. And this might be Jones' one shot at a big pay day.
And you can put the thought of a hometown discount out of your head. The only time players, in any sport, are taking discounts is in extensions or maybe final contracts before retiring. Getting to FA means taking the best offer, and that's what DJs agent and the PA are going to push for.
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Jones is arguably the worst quarterback in the division, and yes, I'm putting him behind Taylor Heinicke.
For the amount of money being talked about ($20 mil - $35 mil) they should move on no question.
Something tells me you'll be regretting that statement after our two games against Washington.
Heinicke has done well against the Giants and they have real WRs..
And you can put the thought of a hometown discount out of your head. The only time players, in any sport, are taking discounts is in extensions or maybe final contracts before retiring. Getting to FA means taking the best offer, and that's what DJs agent and the PA are going to push for.
Instead you’ll do what you always do, say let it play out and then try to chest pump around on a victory lap about being right.
A top 3 running back in the NFL is easily replaced, but a QB that isn't in the top 20 in any meaningful passing stat is a must keep because the Giants can't replace him?
This fanbase and its love for DJ is just silly!
It’s fascinating. I don’t get the “let it play out crowd”. That seems like denial to me. The fact is two of the most important offensive pieces on the team are pending free agents with a 7-3 team.
Bingo. $30M for Jones just to be a bridge QB? That’s absurd.
No you said you don’t care what the numbers is, you’re fine with what ever the Giants pay him even if it’s 40. That’s hedging. That’s fine, but then you shouldn’t be getting so worked about people having varying opinions week to week on what they’d pay Jones.
It’s fascinating. I don’t get the “let it play out crowd”. That seems like denial to me. The fact is two of the most important offensive pieces on the team are pending free agents with a 7-3 team.
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And neither should get anything close to $40M
Be that as it may nine quarterbacks in the NFL have an AAV of 40M -- and we're about to see three more, in Burrows, Herbert, and Hurts.
If Jones is who his big supporters think he is, they should be prepared to say he deserves 40M. That's the point I'm getting at.
In what world is Jones even close to the same to Burrow, Herbert, and even Hurts in production? The numbers being thrown around for DJs level of production are insane. If this team was 4-6, with DJs level of production, nobody would want to keep him...but because the defense and run game have won games, people act like DJ is a must keep. He's average, at best, and he's not the main reason we're a winning team.
You'd pay Jones 40mil a year? Seriously?
The guy has never sniffed a winning record and looked like crap against the worst passing defense in football?
Jones is underperforming relative to never-was guys like Marcus Mariota and has arguably played worse than Heinicke, who started the season as a backup.
Justin Fields has more passing TDs than Jones. Shit, he has almost twice as many rush TDs.
Over the last 3.5 seasons, by any measure-- wins, yards, TDs, whatever you want to look at-- Jones has been a bottom 5 quarterback, if not bottom 3.
So you would rush to pay him 40 mil a year and build out the WR, OL, TE, and ILB units on a low budget?
And then rush to be his gallant defender when he throws 0.7 TDs a game next season like he has the last 2 and a half seasons?
Laughable man! HA-HA!
He was looking a little better than last year during the 6-1 stretch, but these last three games he's shown that he's pretty much the same guy he's been. No one should pay that guy 40 million a year, or even half that tbh.
You're silly.
Having said that I see no difference on the Giants between having Cousin, Tannehill, Carr, Jones, Tua, Murray, Lawrence, Jimmy G, etc. Each has strengths and weaknesses, and we'd be back in the mode of creating an offense to support Murrays running (or putting in a pocket passing attack because Cousins can't run).
This is the dilema. If you don't have on of the top guys you will be in this mode, and its hard getting one of the top guys. So most teams build around what they have.
As an aside I still hold out hope for Lawrence, I think he can be like Herbert eventually.
Those top 8 QBs are winning 100% of the Super Bowls. So, you continue to try to find a SB caliber QB, or you're playing for a playoff spot, nothing more.
If you asked the Raiders, Cardinals, and Titans if they'd sign their guys all over again, they'd all say no. So, why should the Giants be any different?
Jones isn't ever leading a franchise to a SB win, so move on. There's nothing gained by being the Cardinals or Raiders. You're either a true SB contender, or you're not...that has to be the goal.
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ajr, i already answered this question, are you reading this thread at all? I would pay him 40M a year. Do you want me to say it again one more time? Fuck dude.
You'd pay Jones 40mil a year? Seriously?
The guy has never sniffed a winning record and looked like crap against the worst passing defense in football?
Jones is underperforming relative to never-was guys like Marcus Mariota and has arguably played worse than Heinicke, who started the season as a backup.
Justin Fields has more passing TDs than Jones. Shit, he has almost twice as many rush TDs.
Over the last 3.5 seasons, by any measure-- wins, yards, TDs, whatever you want to look at-- Jones has been a bottom 5 quarterback, if not bottom 3.
So you would rush to pay him 40 mil a year and build out the WR, OL, TE, and ILB units on a low budget?
And then rush to be his gallant defender when he throws 0.7 TDs a game next season like he has the last 2 and a half seasons?
Laughable man! HA-HA!
He was looking a little better than last year during the 6-1 stretch, but these last three games he's shown that he's pretty much the same guy he's been. No one should pay that guy 40 million a year, or even half that tbh.
You're silly.
Well said. It's as though there is no logic. They just want Jones and will settle for total mediocrity.
This reads like it was written by a middle school student: "he's not leaving the Giants for some other stupid team"
I'm talking about completed seasons obviously, you goon.
But, go ahead and add up his W/L total for 3.5 years and tell me what you come up with.
Or perhaps you would like to address any substantive point in my post?
Like Jones being one of the least productive starters in the league over his NFL career up through 2022 week 11, and that paying 40 million a year for that kind of production is lunacy?
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I personally believe after you get past the first 7 or 8 QBs (Mahomes, Allen, Burrows, Brady, Rodgers, Herbert, Lamar, maybe 1 other) then the next 10-12 are all pretty much the same. We can argue if Hurts for example should be in there, but then I'd argue that Brady is over the hill and should be out). So your 8 may be different but you get the point.
Having said that I see no difference on the Giants between having Cousin, Tannehill, Carr, Jones, Tua, Murray, Lawrence, Jimmy G, etc. Each has strengths and weaknesses, and we'd be back in the mode of creating an offense to support Murrays running (or putting in a pocket passing attack because Cousins can't run).
This is the dilema. If you don't have on of the top guys you will be in this mode, and its hard getting one of the top guys. So most teams build around what they have.
As an aside I still hold out hope for Lawrence, I think he can be like Herbert eventually.
Those top 8 QBs are winning 100% of the Super Bowls. So, you continue to try to find a SB caliber QB, or you're playing for a playoff spot, nothing more.
If you asked the Raiders, Cardinals, and Titans if they'd sign their guys all over again, they'd all say no. So, why should the Giants be any different?
Jones isn't ever leading a franchise to a SB win, so move on. There's nothing gained by being the Cardinals or Raiders. You're either a true SB contender, or you're not...that has to be the goal.
Not saying we should, I believe we are agreeing here. Sure if you look at the Carrs/Jones/Tannehills of the world you will see some with better stats than the others, but I would submit it has to do with the quality of the surrounding team. All these guys are in a sense managing the game, not really driving it like Mahomes. Give them a top supporting cast and they can get the job done.
So I would look around and see who is the best deal, and also draft a QB you like to try and "hit the lottery". If thats Jones fine, if its Carr fine, if its xxxx fine
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Would Jones sign a 2yr/$15MM contract, unless that's the best offer he got. And if that's the best offer he gets, that tells you what the GMs as a whole think about him.
And you can put the thought of a hometown discount out of your head. The only time players, in any sport, are taking discounts is in extensions or maybe final contracts before retiring. Getting to FA means taking the best offer, and that's what DJs agent and the PA are going to push for.
2 years @ $15M PER. Of the $30M, guarantee most of it ($20M+) to entice him. I'm not saying he would take it. But, that's where I think he belongs.
That's fair, but again that's kind of contract indicates he's not a franchise guy and why not start over?
Yes they could end up drafting a worse QB, but for the sake of argument let's say they drafted a clone of Jones, the economics make that a better play than giving him a 2nd contract
Exactly. If he’s worth $30M then he’s worth a long term deal. Otherwise you’re paying for a position that you still need at an absurd cost.
And other teams previously making contract mistakes with their respective middle tier QBs doesn't mean Schoen should follow suit.
Realize the roster still has a long way to go, and hope Schoen/Daboll keep rebuilding it in a smart fashion.
Are you sure that bridge isn't named Tyrod Taylor?
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In comment 15917909 Jerry in_DC said:
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And neither should get anything close to $40M
Be that as it may nine quarterbacks in the NFL have an AAV of 40M -- and we're about to see three more, in Burrows, Herbert, and Hurts.
If Jones is who his big supporters think he is, they should be prepared to say he deserves 40M. That's the point I'm getting at.
In what world is Jones even close to the same to Burrow, Herbert, and even Hurts in production? The numbers being thrown around for DJs level of production are insane. If this team was 4-6, with DJs level of production, nobody would want to keep him...but because the defense and run game have won games, people act like DJ is a must keep. He's average, at best, and he's not the main reason we're a winning team.
In the total QBR world.