It seems my assessment of Jones from my couch was off base. The two picks really hurt.
As for Sy’s closing remark, any “progress” made could potentially *not* include Jones & Barkley going forward who are both pending free agents. That’s why it’s such a unique situation.
review. I agree it was mistake to use Jackson on PRs. They should also use Breida more, especially given our lack of WRs.
This team had a small margin for error that injuries have now completely eliminated. I expect a lot of losses as we finish out the season. The team is playing hard, but we simply don't have the talent to withstand this many injuries. I think five players have now torn their ACLs, and others (Neal, Jackson, Robinson), have MCL injuries.
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
For all you BBIers who say "You Can't Coach Scared"
in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
Yea, missing that game was not a bad thing to do! On the Giants very first play from scrimmage, Barkley got nailed in the backfield. I believe that one was on Shane Lemieux, who got rag-dolled by Alim McNeill. In fact, McNeill made Lemieux look ugly all day long. In any event, after Barkley got stoned at the start of the game, he looked like he didn't want to carry the ball again.
good stuff Sy. Another weekly BBI thread that I am thankful
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
Yea, missing that game was not a bad thing to do! On the Giants very first play from scrimmage, Barkley got nailed in the backfield. I believe that one was on Shane Lemieux, who got rag-dolled by Alim McNeill. In fact, McNeill made Lemieux look ugly all day long. In any event, after Barkley got stoned at the start of the game, he looked like he didn't want to carry the ball again.
Could be that shoulder is beyond sore.
I would like to see some Brightwell too.
I was very disappointed in the play calling in this game
I think the QB sneak was open so much in the game and not used effectively. Barkley was getting blown up left and right and I saw Jones with several opportunities to keep in for big gains and it was not utilized till late. Is that on Jones or Kafka?
Losing WanDale is a big loss but just looking at him on the field and how small he is Im still wondering if the 2nd round was too early to take that gamble. It seemed like every game he played he was injured in some wayand now with the ACL we may never see the player he was supposed to be again. Im not expecting anything out of this player going forward which is unfortunate. His game relies on his legs and even if he does come back next season, the impact will probably be minimal. I feel bad for the kid. This team has had the worst luck at the WR position. Next season we need need a whole new unit from top to bottom, Id get rid of them all and hope forRobinson in 2024.
RE: good stuff Sy. Another weekly BBI thread that I am thankful
Interesting take on the DAL game. Stranger things have happened.
Victor in CT -- someone on another thread said the same thing more-or-less. I responded to that with the following:
After a Dallas HUGE blow-out of Minny... and the Lions beat-down of the Giants... I can see where you are coming from. Sorta an unexpected reversal of fortune... a let down by the favorite and the over-performance of the angry underdog. I've seen it before, have seen it over 60 years of watching NFL football. So, it can happen. That said, it's hard to envision such a scenario with a defense that may have more holes in its dike than Wink has fingers.
are the ones who bashed anyone (myself included) that questioned Barkley's play this past Sunday. i said more than once that Barkley was not running the same way as he had been and that he was the cause of a few negative plays, as he slowly went towards the line and did the turn his back and just give up on the "forward" attempt at contact.
The offensive line was not good, there is no doubt about that BUT, Breida played better than Barkley and was attacking far harder than Barkley was.
**BTW the Lions and their Oline build might be a great example of why you don't spend BIG $$$ on a Running Back.
RE: RE: good stuff Sy. Another weekly BBI thread that I am thankful
Interesting take on the DAL game. Stranger things have happened.
Victor in CT -- someone on another thread said the same thing more-or-less. I responded to that with the following:
After a Dallas HUGE blow-out of Minny... and the Lions beat-down of the Giants... I can see where you are coming from. Sorta an unexpected reversal of fortune... a let down by the favorite and the over-performance of the angry underdog. I've seen it before, have seen it over 60 years of watching NFL football. So, it can happen. That said, it's hard to envision such a scenario with a defense that may have more holes in its dike than Wink has fingers.
Yes it's not impossible. I actually thanked my Vikes fan friend for them making DAL overconfident LOL!
I was actually worried about this game from the moment McKinney got hurt. You could see it in the Texans game that the 2ndary was not nearly as tight.
Seems so out of character for the quality decision making we have seen thus far from Daboll. Especially after losing McKinney! How is it possible he would put at unnecessary risk his best defensive back? Such a catastrophic unforced error. And his defensive response when asked the question as to why was not terribly satisfying either and reminiscent of the lack of candor from our previous coaching regime.
Should the Giants not make the playoffs, the galactically stupid dereliction of duty by McKinney and the unfathomable decision to have Jackson returning punts will be significant reasons why. Any success this team has had in the first half of the season has been dependent on a quality bend but don't break defense. It simply has not looked the same these past two weeks, notwithstanding the win against the lowly Texans. I suspect they will struggle in the coming weeks given the schedule difficulty, putting that much more unneeded pressure on the offense.
I love your optimism Sy about Thursday, but if the defense plays like it did Sunday, the Giants will get blown out...
seeing more carries in that game the way Barkley looked after carrying the team the previous week. I am not sure it would've mattered in the end with how the line played, then again, we were down just 12 at one point and maybe we are sustaining more drive early. Coaches fucked that up, hopefully they learn that Barkley being super man doesn't make him the man of steel.
I am curious what went into the decision to start shane lemieux. Did he really look that much better in practice or were they trying to give the line a jolt?
As Sy said, the AJ punt return decision was boneheaded. Two big mistakes from the staff right there. Not down on them, just gotta call it like we see it.
Kellen Moore is going to have fun game planning against our LB group
Seems so out of character for the quality decision making we have seen thus far from Daboll. Especially after losing McKinney! How is it possible he would put at unnecessary risk his best defensive back? Such a catastrophic unforced error. And his defensive response when asked the question as to why was not terribly satisfying either and reminiscent of the lack of candor from our previous coaching regime.
Should the Giants not make the playoffs, the galactically stupid dereliction of duty by McKinney and the unfathomable decision to have Jackson returning punts will be significant reasons why. Any success this team has had in the first half of the season has been dependent on a quality bend but don't break defense. It simply has not looked the same these past two weeks, notwithstanding the win against the lowly Texans. I suspect they will struggle in the coming weeks given the schedule difficulty, putting that much more unneeded pressure on the offense.
I love your optimism Sy about Thursday, but if the defense plays like it did Sunday, the Giants will get blown out...
Seems so out of character for the quality decision making we have seen thus far from Daboll. Especially after losing McKinney! How is it possible he would put at unnecessary risk his best defensive back? Such a catastrophic unforced error. And his defensive response when asked the question as to why was not terribly satisfying either and reminiscent of the lack of candor from our previous coaching regime.
Should the Giants not make the playoffs, the galactically stupid dereliction of duty by McKinney and the unfathomable decision to have Jackson returning punts will be significant reasons why.
Hindsight is 20/20 but its quite possibly the worst coaching decision he has made thus far. We weren't relying on a dynamic return game so we really just needed a guy to fair catch punts.
That and McKinney's stupidity cost us a few games for sure. Ultimately this team isn't winning the super bowl either way so hopefully the mistakes are good learning experiences for coach and player.
I may be wrong, but I think Dallas will have a slight let down and the Giants need to get back on their horse. That said, I cannot see Dallas losing a Thanksgiving game against a Division opponent on National TV. They’re just too talented and we’re playing third stringers now! Stranger things have happened but I wouldn’t take the Vegas odds on this one either.
The photo for the review reminded me what a big play that was
Do I get an apology for the sarcastic tone I got, when I suggested Glowinski should be benched for Bredeson?
Glowinski should not be benched for Bredeson. No way.
What about for Lemieux? I say no, but wonder if that's an option. I want Ezeudu to stick at LG because I think he's going to be there for a long while.
Do I get an apology for the sarcastic tone I got, when I suggested Glowinski should be benched for Bredeson?
Glowinski should not be benched for Bredeson. No way.
What about for Lemieux? I say no, but wonder if that's an option. I want Ezeudu to stick at LG because I think he's going to be there for a long while.
Yes please!! I think and have thought that Lemieux is awful.
I thought SB might be a little worn down and agree he had a very big workload the previous week.
Good news it was not Williams or Dex who were big reasons for the faulty run D. I was concerned with Dex's back.
I pretty much said the same thing regarding the Jackson decision. Mind boggling considering already losing X and the other corner spot already losing a starter.
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
I don't know if I would say they weren't prepared. They looked good until the Hutchinson INT. They never rebounded after that.
I feel like I was the only person here for the last couple of days who saw both of those picks as bad plays by Jones. The first everyone has been writing off as a great play by Hutchinson. But, it was a zone blitz they have run before and not only did Jones not recognize it, but he threw it right to Hutchinson who was in his direct line of sight.
The second was a bad throw. I thought it was a great call and a great read. It was 4th and 5, but they had a receiver OPEN deep. Jones missed him badly, taking a great opportunity for points off the board.
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
I don't know if I would say they weren't prepared. They looked good until the Hutchinson INT. They never rebounded after that.
So 1 INT derailed an entire game plan. Down 10-6?(If I have the sequence correct)
INTs happen. Yes the Jones has had very few this year, but they happen to most teams. They need to get past that.
We were pissed at Garrett's vanilla plans. Yes they have had decent success of Barkley's running and some nice runs by Jones. But now that game plan is shot and it really has been since Seattle.
It should be interesting to see what they do now. It will be quite difficult to win now unless Kafka can get some early passing successes.
1) I agree this was a game where more Breida would have been in order. I also agree, moving forward, we should see a lot more sets with both Barkley and Breida on the field at the same time. That has almost always resulted in a positive play thus far. It lends itself to a lot of misdirection and guessing because both are threats to run the ball or catch it, both can split wide, and both can motion and still be effective.
2) I thought that Ximines roughing penalty was one of the turning points. Those 3 points that followed were big, especially with our 2 missed PATs. In his short career, he has a bad history of stupid penalties like this.
3) I also agree with you about TE. I loved the Bellinger pick and like it even more with him on the field. I hope he's back Thursday. They need him. But, there really was nothing behind him. TE needs to be addressed this off season.
4) ILB is a huge problem. It is a big reason we are getting gashed by the run.
5) The pass rush has also been a big problem. I don't know why, but I have a gut feeling Thanksgiving is the game we see a break out performance by KT. We need it and we need Ojulari back.
6) Ezeudu needs to start the rest of the way. He is the best LG on the team, is getting better, and is the one most likely to start next year. He solves both the short term and long term need, in my opinion. Don't confuse this with thinking he is better than the reality. I recognize he is an average OL right now. But, the rest of the options are not even that.
I feel like I was the only person here for the last couple of days who saw both of those picks as bad plays by Jones. The first everyone has been writing off as a great play by Hutchinson. But, it was a zone blitz they have run before and not only did Jones not recognize it, but he threw it right to Hutchinson who was in his direct line of sight.
The second was a bad throw. I thought it was a great call and a great read. It was 4th and 5, but they had a receiver OPEN deep. Jones missed him badly, taking a great opportunity for points off the board.
The 2nd INT was awful. The one to Hutchinson, he probably should not have thrown that but what other DE makes that catch? That was in no way shape or form a gimme INT. Hutchinson made a hell of a play there.
but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
I feel like I was the only person here for the last couple of days who saw both of those picks as bad plays by Jones. The first everyone has been writing off as a great play by Hutchinson. But, it was a zone blitz they have run before and not only did Jones not recognize it, but he threw it right to Hutchinson who was in his direct line of sight.
The second was a bad throw. I thought it was a great call and a great read. It was 4th and 5, but they had a receiver OPEN deep. Jones missed him badly, taking a great opportunity for points off the board.
The 2nd INT was awful. The one to Hutchinson, he probably should not have thrown that but what other DE makes that catch? That was in no way shape or form a gimme INT. Hutchinson made a hell of a play there.
Nobody said it was a gimme. But, when a tall defender is in the QBs direct line of sight to the intended receiver, it's generally not a good idea for the QB to make that throw.
but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
agree. sometimes the other guy makes a great play.
but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
It was really an incredible play by Hutch. How many guys have the size/length, smarts, talent to drop back as a DE there and make that pick? Killer TO for the Giants, and a play that makes you drool if you're a Lions fan.
but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
Agreed 100%. Now that second INT? That looked pretty bad.
1) I agree this was a game where more Breida would have been in order. I also agree, moving forward, we should see a lot more sets with both Barkley and Breida on the field at the same time. That has almost always resulted in a positive play thus far. It lends itself to a lot of misdirection and guessing because both are threats to run the ball or catch it, both can split wide, and both can motion and still be effective.
2) I thought that Ximines roughing penalty was one of the turning points. Those 3 points that followed were big, especially with our 2 missed PATs. In his short career, he has a bad history of stupid penalties like this.
3) I also agree with you about TE. I loved the Bellinger pick and like it even more with him on the field. I hope he's back Thursday. They need him. But, there really was nothing behind him. TE needs to be addressed this off season.
4) ILB is a huge problem. It is a big reason we are getting gashed by the run.
5) The pass rush has also been a big problem. I don't know why, but I have a gut feeling Thanksgiving is the game we see a break out performance by KT. We need it and we need Ojulari back.
6) Ezeudu needs to start the rest of the way. He is the best LG on the team, is getting better, and is the one most likely to start next year. He solves both the short term and long term need, in my opinion. Don't confuse this with thinking he is better than the reality. I recognize he is an average OL right now. But, the rest of the options are not even that.
FA isn't the way to build a team, but you can bring in solid, stabilizing dudes at TE, IOL, and ILB through FA. Having street FA-level talent at those positions is hurting us even worse now that the injuries are hitting around them.
1) I agree this was a game where more Breida would have been in order. I also agree, moving forward, we should see a lot more sets with both Barkley and Breida on the field at the same time. That has almost always resulted in a positive play thus far. It lends itself to a lot of misdirection and guessing because both are threats to run the ball or catch it, both can split wide, and both can motion and still be effective.
2) I thought that Ximines roughing penalty was one of the turning points. Those 3 points that followed were big, especially with our 2 missed PATs. In his short career, he has a bad history of stupid penalties like this.
3) I also agree with you about TE. I loved the Bellinger pick and like it even more with him on the field. I hope he's back Thursday. They need him. But, there really was nothing behind him. TE needs to be addressed this off season.
4) ILB is a huge problem. It is a big reason we are getting gashed by the run.
5) The pass rush has also been a big problem. I don't know why, but I have a gut feeling Thanksgiving is the game we see a break out performance by KT. We need it and we need Ojulari back.
6) Ezeudu needs to start the rest of the way. He is the best LG on the team, is getting better, and is the one most likely to start next year. He solves both the short term and long term need, in my opinion. Don't confuse this with thinking he is better than the reality. I recognize he is an average OL right now. But, the rest of the options are not even that.
FA isn't the way to build a team, but you can bring in solid, stabilizing dudes at TE, IOL, and ILB through FA. Having street FA-level talent at those positions is hurting us even worse now that the injuries are hitting around them.
I agree. But, thankfully, we also have a starting caliber TE, so FA can be used to improve the depth as one option. OG is a tough call. But, they potentially have 4/5 of the line in place with Gates back. I hope to G-d Beavers comes back healthy and can participate in camp. I think he was a huge loss.
RE: The photo for the review reminded me what a big play that was
that was actually a good drop on that INT, they would have had the ball at the 2. They held them and the Lions punted into the endzone and we got the ball at the 20.
but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
It was a great play by Hutchinson to make the INT. But, I would say it would not have been a great play just to get a PD out of it. They have dropped him in a zone blitz before, so it is on film. Jones has to see it and recognize it, number one. Number two, it's a risky throw with a guy that size because if he tries to add touch to get it over Hutchinson, he is likely giving a DB a good shot at making a play. So, yes, it was a great play by Hutchinson to actually make the grab, it was still a bad play by Jones in terms of recognition, decision making, and execution. It's just a throw he shouldn't have made.
but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
That's where I am with it. Watched the All-22 multiple times. Jones shouldn't have thrown it, but it took an incredible play that 90% of DEs couldn't hope to make.
The Giants in a tough spot with Jones. He seems to me to essentially Garropolo/Tannehill level QB. Could potentially be better if he had some talent around him, but I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 kind of guy. Good enough to win games with, maybe make a little bit of noise in the playoffs, but not good enough to be a year in/year out threat to go deep in the playoffs.
He's the kind of QB I wouldn't mind giving a bridge QB contract to while we find our guy. Say 2-4 years at 15-20 AAV. The problem is, I think so many teams need QBs that he'll be priced out of that range. Someone will see the shit he's been surrounded by and overpay with the belief that he'll be great with more talent around him. I'm not sure I really buy that. I'm not sure the guys available in this draft are going to end up any better, especially with where the Giants will be picking and how much it would cost to trade up for Stroud/Young. I'd be all for a bigtime trade up and neglecting the rest of the roster for a year if Schoen/Daboll believe that strongly in one of them (I don't), I just don't see a Herbert/Mahomes/Allen kind of talent worth trading up for this year.
you can't hope to get lucky and defy. A healthy OBJ the team had a puncher's chance. When healthy Coughlin wins SBs, mediocre other wise. Winless without Daniel Jones.
One exception is we beat Buffalo HOF roster team without our starting QB and RB but that's an outlier with Parcells and Little Bill and travelling back in the way back machine.
acknowledged he did not see Hutchinson. I am sure the Giants were aware of Detroit doing this at certain times. What could have also happened is they went against the tendency or did it from a different look. Lot of very smart play callers in this league on both sides.
Turnovers are turnovers. You just can't have them with this team.
in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
If Barkley were a solid returner I would have no issue with him being back there fielding punts. My concern with him fielding punts would be more about his poor hands, as we have seen in the passing game. He is a dynamic runner but his hands are average at best for a RB.
are the ones who bashed anyone (myself included) that questioned Barkley's play this past Sunday. i said more than once that Barkley was not running the same way as he had been and that he was the cause of a few negative plays, as he slowly went towards the line and did the turn his back and just give up on the "forward" attempt at contact.
The offensive line was not good, there is no doubt about that BUT, Breida played better than Barkley and was attacking far harder than Barkley was.
**BTW the Lions and their Oline build might be a great example of why you don't spend BIG $$$ on a Running Back.
There are a faction here who have sacred cow players you can never criticize. If they have a good game it is because they are really good. If they have an off game it is because of all the crap around them. Their play never varies from game to game. Ever.
I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
They were on the Detroit 40, so it was almost like a punt. The Hammer probably would have put it in the endzone anyway for a touchback. The other possibility is that they would go for it on fourth down, (I think it was third and 15). But, we know how difficult it is for them to convert on that. Maybe Jones threw it up for grabs figuring it was their best shot to make something happen.
RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
They were on the Detroit 40, so it was almost like a punt. The Hammer probably would have put it in the endzone anyway for a touchback. The other possibility is that they would go for it on fourth down, (I think it was third and 15). But, we know how difficult it is for them to convert on that. Maybe Jones threw it up for grabs figuring it was their best shot to make something happen.
And the game was out of hand, certainly not the worst decision. As Parcells told Simms he's not doing his job if he doesn't throw any ints.
in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
If Barkley were a solid returner I would have no issue with him being back there fielding punts. My concern with him fielding punts would be more about his poor hands, as we have seen in the passing game. He is a dynamic runner but his hands are average at best for a RB.
Barkley had great hands coming out of PSU. Dropped 1 or 2 his rookie year. Now he is a bit suspect, probably trying to rum before securing the ball.
RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
They were on the Detroit 40, so it was almost like a punt. The Hammer probably would have put it in the endzone anyway for a touchback. The other possibility is that they would go for it on fourth down, (I think it was third and 15). But, we know how difficult it is for them to convert on that. Maybe Jones threw it up for grabs figuring it was their best shot to make something happen.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
RE: RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
They were on the Detroit 40, so it was almost like a punt. The Hammer probably would have put it in the endzone anyway for a touchback. The other possibility is that they would go for it on fourth down, (I think it was third and 15). But, we know how difficult it is for them to convert on that. Maybe Jones threw it up for grabs figuring it was their best shot to make something happen.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
Agree 100%. I actually liked the read and taking that shot. Cager was open. Jones missed badly.
But, checking down to Robinson underneath would also have been acceptable.
And I completely agree with your points. It’s hard to criticize what this coaching staff have done so far, but with losing McKinney it was really stupid of them to have Adoree back there returning punts. He was the MVP of this defense with McKinney out you just don’t put the most important player you have that is holding a unit all together by scraps in that position. It’s something Daboll needs to understand and adjust too.
I think we will be competitive but I see this team losing a lot of close games that remain. That’s ok, because we never thought we’d even have won this many games but we need to see how these players respond and remain competitive. And more importantly how the coaches adjust and keep this team in games. Hate to have the feeling that this year is pretty much a wrap at this point, but with all the critical losses and deficiencies at key positions I just don’t see us making much noise going further. It’s about 2023, and players that will remain key to the future will have to earn their paychecks from here forth.
Can’t wait for your draft pre-views especially WR, QB, and LBers. This team has some really good players, but still has some units completely barren of depth and talent (WR, TE, ILB). This will be a really interesting off-season to see what they do with resigning certain players (Dex, Jones, Barkley, Love)
RE: RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
They were on the Detroit 40, so it was almost like a punt. The Hammer probably would have put it in the endzone anyway for a touchback. The other possibility is that they would go for it on fourth down, (I think it was third and 15). But, we know how difficult it is for them to convert on that. Maybe Jones threw it up for grabs figuring it was their best shot to make something happen.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
It was 4th down, not 3rd. Jones got rid of the ball at pretty much the last second. Stepped up in the pocket and had an arm in his face. Not a good throw, that's on Jones. It looked like Cager alligator armed it and then didn't try to make a play on the defender after he ran into him. First time I've seen a TE bounce off a DB like that.
And I completely agree with your points. It’s hard to criticize what this coaching staff have done so far, but with losing McKinney it was really stupid of them to have Adoree back there returning punts.
And Jackson likely could do some of the things McKinney is tasked to do.
RE: RE: RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
It was 4th down, not 3rd. Jones got rid of the ball at pretty much the last second. Stepped up in the pocket and had an arm in his face. Not a good throw, that's on Jones. It looked like Cager alligator armed it and then didn't try to make a play on the defender after he ran into him. First time I've seen a TE bounce off a DB like that.
I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
It was 4th down, not 3rd. Jones got rid of the ball at pretty much the last second. Stepped up in the pocket and had an arm in his face. Not a good throw, that's on Jones. It looked like Cager alligator armed it and then didn't try to make a play on the defender after he ran into him. First time I've seen a TE bounce off a DB like that.
I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
It wasn't behind Cager. It was overthrown, by a wide margin. Unless he's Mr. Fantastic, alligator arms or not, that ball wasn't getting caught.
RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
They were on the Detroit 40, so it was almost like a punt. The Hammer probably would have put it in the endzone anyway for a touchback. The other possibility is that they would go for it on fourth down, (I think it was third and 15). But, we know how difficult it is for them to convert on that. Maybe Jones threw it up for grabs figuring it was their best shot to make something happen.
Didn’t the pick happen on 4th and 5? Not exactly a throwaway situation. They also returned it to the Giants 41. Not exactly just like a punt.
The only thing I disagreed with is Sy putting the end of half decision not to spike on the QB. That decision was 100% on the head coach. Daniel Jones isn’t Tom Brady… he isn’t running this show in a any way, shape, or form. That decision has to come from the HC via the OC, who’s on the headset.
Matt Breida absolutely should’ve been used more often.
I think the QB sneak was open so much in the game and not used effectively. Barkley was getting blown up left and right and I saw Jones with several opportunities to keep in for big gains and it was not utilized till late. Is that on Jones or Kafka?
Losing WanDale is a big loss but just looking at him on the field and how small he is Im still wondering if the 2nd round was too early to take that gamble. It seemed like every game he played he was injured in some wayand now with the ACL we may never see the player he was supposed to be again. Im not expecting anything out of this player going forward which is unfortunate. His game relies on his legs and even if he does come back next season, the impact will probably be minimal. I feel bad for the kid. This team has had the worst luck at the WR position. Next season we need need a whole new unit from top to bottom, Id get rid of them all and hope forRobinson in 2024.
#1. …sometimes Great players make Great plays. Hutch already is a great player. Too bad Detroit didn’t take Thibs instead. That 6’7” kid is a freak!
#2….yeah Daniel overthrew him, but Daniel threw 44 passes that day….no one is perfect. Look at how many interceptions the Great Josh Allen has thrown the past 3 games. Look at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers….and on and on
Besides, it was a 4th and 5 so even if the pass was just knocked down, they still get the ball back anyhow. And in case you forgot, Detroit did not score any points off that turnover. They did score points off of the 1st turnover and Hodgins fumble though.
The kid did fumble, which was not good, so hopefully that was an aberration, but he also caught 3 passes that counted and 2 passes that were taken away due to penalties. One penalty was highly questionable ….but it seemed like this crew just wanted to throw their flags.
But back to Hodgins….what I liked about his game is that he had separation and he has tremendos hands, unlike Slayton. I always hold my breath when the ball goes to hi…I expect him to drop all long passes or at least bobble it, which gives me added stress, and am surprised when he doesn’t.
Besides, it was a 4th and 5 so even if the pass was just knocked down, they still get the ball back anyhow. And in case you forgot, Detroit did not score any points off that turnover. They did score points off of the 1st turnover and Hodgins fumble though.
Why does this keep getting repeated? A good throw and they convert the 4th and 5 most likely. Why do we shrug our shoulders and say “welp it was 4th anyway”? The reaction wouldn’t be the same if Cager dropped the pass.
Besides, it was a 4th and 5 so even if the pass was just knocked down, they still get the ball back anyhow. And in case you forgot, Detroit did not score any points off that turnover. They did score points off of the 1st turnover and Hodgins fumble though.
Why does this keep getting repeated? A good throw and they convert the 4th and 5 most likely. Why do we shrug our shoulders and say “welp it was 4th anyway”? The reaction wouldn’t be the same if Cager dropped the pass.
Did you not read my entire post? I said it was not good but I reminded guys like you, he threw 44 times….even great QBs make a bad throw every so often.
So, do you think he should be perfect on all 44 throws? Have you ever played QB in HS, College, or Recreation football? We’re you 100% accurate with your passes.
My second point was- even if the pass got batted down, rather than picked, they still get the ball back….same result.
#2….yeah Daniel overthrew him, but Daniel threw 44 passes that day….no one is perfect. Look at how many interceptions the Great Josh Allen has thrown the past 3 games. Look at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers….and on and on
We were down 24-6 with 7+ minutes in the third. That would have been a huge conversion and created much needed momentum.
So, I'm not buying it was "like a punt, so let it go" angle. Mistakes get compounded when you are trailing and looking for a spark.
#2….yeah Daniel overthrew him, but Daniel threw 44 passes that day….no one is perfect. Look at how many interceptions the Great Josh Allen has thrown the past 3 games. Look at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers….and on and on
We were down 24-6 with 7+ minutes in the third. That would have been a huge conversion and created much needed momentum.
So, I'm not buying it was "like a punt, so let it go" angle. Mistakes get compounded when you are trailing and looking for a spark.
Well, imwould expect you to say nothing less bw, knowing how much you want to ride Jones out of town and pick up a guy like Pickett or Willis…..but getting back to that throw….
We are down 24-6 and Jones makes a bad pass, and so you want to crucify him for it. I’m glad the game wasn’t tied up…you would have gone berserk.
Getting back to that play….I don’t recall…was Cager that wide open? As best as I can recall, Danny had to throw it quickly due to pressure, but not clear on the entire context of the play. I’m sure Danny would tell you he would take the blame for that pass but again may I just remind you….he is not a robot. He has been very accurate all year with minimal turnovers- that one play at 24-6 was not as big a deal as you want to make it. I think the Hodgins fumble at 24-12 with about 9 minutes to play was the play that certainly was the most disappointing.
And of course all the penalties we had to stop drives were back breaking.
Doesn’t mean you just throw your arms and say oh well when discussing the play. What would your reaction have been if Cager dropped it?
My reaction….”now I see why the Jets let you go.” Lol. Seriously, I’d be disappointed, but I’m rooting for him to succeed. You always hope they can minimize mistakes.
Cager did drop a two point conversion….not that it mattered. And Hodgins did fumble with the score 24-12, which hurt….but, I’m not mad at him for that. The kid has lots of promise and I think can be a very dependable large body target here for years to come. I’m sure he feels badly about the fumble.
#2….yeah Daniel overthrew him, but Daniel threw 44 passes that day….no one is perfect. Look at how many interceptions the Great Josh Allen has thrown the past 3 games. Look at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers….and on and on
We were down 24-6 with 7+ minutes in the third. That would have been a huge conversion and created much needed momentum.
So, I'm not buying it was "like a punt, so let it go" angle. Mistakes get compounded when you are trailing and looking for a spark.
Honestly more upset at the playcall before. I believe it was 3rd and 6 and we called a run play that went for a yard
Kafka has been excellent all season. This was probably his worst "called" game but i really can't blame him for it, conditions were not ideal, the blocking was poor, couldn't get the run game going, etc.
in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
This argument only works if you assume that Barkley has a better skill set for returning punts than Jackson. Not sure why that's taken as a given. And in any case, teams putting starting skill position players out to return kicks is not unusual. The Giants once did it with Tiki.
That's the nature of the game. make enough throws, you're going to get an awshit.
I think they should open the playbook up. Put Jones a more aggressive mode. See if he can run the system. Every game, it seems like people are commenting about how Jones missed an open guy. So, as bad as the receiving core is, they can get open. Maybe don't go pedal to the medal, but I think they need to see if Jones can be more than a game manager.
Teams have doing it a lot less since the rule changes to returns
Well, imwould expect you to say nothing less bw, knowing how much you want to ride Jones out of town and pick up a guy like Pickett or Willis…..but getting back to that throw….
We are down 24-6 and Jones makes a bad pass, and so you want to crucify him for it. I’m glad the game wasn’t tied up…you would have gone berserk.
Getting back to that play….I don’t recall…was Cager that wide open? As best as I can recall, Danny had to throw it quickly due to pressure, but not clear on the entire context of the play. I’m sure Danny would tell you he would take the blame for that pass but again may I just remind you….he is not a robot. He has been very accurate all year with minimal turnovers- that one play at 24-6 was not as big a deal as you want to make it. I think the Hodgins fumble at 24-12 with about 9 minutes to play was the play that certainly was the most disappointing.
And of course all the penalties we had to stop drives were back breaking.
You are assuming what my tone is. I'm really just describing the play as I saw it on the various replays. And then the impact the INT had one the flow of the game.
As I said earlier, I actually give Jones a pass on the first INT. But he needed to make that play on 4th down. It was a pivotal time.
That's the nature of the game. make enough throws, you're going to get an awshit.
I think they should open the playbook up. Put Jones a more aggressive mode. See if he can run the system. Every game, it seems like people are commenting about how Jones missed an open guy. So, as bad as the receiving core is, they can get open. Maybe don't go pedal to the medal, but I think they need to see if Jones can be more than a game manager.
You owe it to evry other player on teh team (not named Jones) to try to play to the bets style that gives you the best chance to win.
You're a type of fan that sees a picture that the team is ultimately going nowhere this year at best Playoffs - one round and out. None of those players feel that way or maybe someone like Golladay does b- but not the team.
And they are laos playing for livelihood - their next contracts. To shuck the best opportunity to win in favor of "let's se what Jones can do" when Giants are in a playoff race is not the best idea.
The Jets coach is sort of feeling that wrath too.
There are other player's on the team to consider beside the qb.
throw, no excuses. He knows it to, watch his post game interview. I disagree with Sy on the first INT. It looked like Hutch dropped late, so Jones was not only not expecting him to be where he was, it surprised him after he released the ball. Great disguise and a great play.
Not all turnovers are created equal. I suggest you watch the field level replay of that play by Hutch. You can see it in the link below.
Hutch - great play. - ( New Window )
It doesn't matter all turnovers are not created equal. That is not the point. What just because one turnover could happen in the 10 seconds and turn a tie game into a loss vs a game where a turnover destroys the momentum but the team recovers takes the lead but then eventually loses late it means because they aren't equal that the 2nd play wasn't bad too?
I suggest you try to understand what is a good play vs what is a bad play. A turnover in this instance was a bad play by the QB.
Detroit's a much better team than some on BBI gave them credit for. Outside of the Patriots game-which seems like an outlier-Detroit has been in each game. The Dallas game got away from them late.
If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it.
relying on a severely unbalanced attack (all run) invites the type of defense teams are doing: go all out to stop the run and dare the Giants to beat them in the air. Instead of beating their heads against a rock wall by continuing to run, maybe they should try working on their air game. A more balanced attack allows for more chess moves.
Now, maybe Daboll doesn't think the team can be successful in the air, for whatever reason. Certainly, he knows more than me and 99 % of the fans, but it isn't unreasonable to think nothing but run is not a sustainable model for success.
relying on a severely unbalanced attack (all run) invites the type of defense teams are doing: go all out to stop the run and dare the Giants to beat them in the air. Instead of beating their heads against a rock wall by continuing to run, maybe they should try working on their air game. A more balanced attack allows for more chess moves.
Now, maybe Daboll doesn't think the team can be successful in the air, for whatever reason. Certainly, he knows more than me and 99 % of the fans, but it isn't unreasonable to think nothing but run is not a sustainable model for success.
They won 7 game by being a run dominant team. Why play against your strength? They didn't run "All the time" but run a lot.
I agree with you - can't run every play. But imo their best success has been dominant run team and short quick passes mostly.
Teams like San Fran in the past and Tennessee have done well as run dominant.
I don't see the downside of having a guy with good hands simply fair-catch the ball every time. You'll need maybe more first down to reach scoring position – but returning punts raises the possibility of fumbles or block-in-the-back penalties that hurt you. Just catch the ball and run your offense.
Didn’t you guys watch the friggin game? Every time Saquon got the ball, he was smothered. Plus, he looked slow.
And then when the score became 24-6 immediately after halftime, what did you expect Kafka to call? More Barkley up the middle for one yard?
We scored 3 tds and could have had at least one more had it not been for penalties. 4 TDs and still lose would have been newsworthy. When have we scored 4 tds in one game this year?
Well, there’s one thing I’ve noticed on this thread….more people are pissed off at one pass in particular Jones didn’t make instead of the 15 useless carries by Barkley.
What concerns me about this is it appears we may open up our wallets, and cap space, for a RB much like Dallas did for Zeke Elliot. I’m not so sure this is wise….this past Sunday has given me reason to be cautious. We should let the entire year play out for both players.
Didn’t you guys watch the friggin game? Every time Saquon got the ball, he was smothered. Plus, he looked slow.
And then when the score became 24-6 immediately after halftime, what did you expect Kafka to call? More Barkley up the middle for one yard?
We scored 3 tds and could have had at least one more had it not been for penalties. 4 TDs and still lose would have been newsworthy. When have we scored 4 tds in one game this year?
Well, there’s one thing I’ve noticed on this thread….more people are pissed off at one pass in particular Jones didn’t make instead of the 15 useless carries by Barkley.
What concerns me about this is it appears we may open up our wallets, and cap space, for a RB much like Dallas did for Zeke Elliot. I’m not so sure this is wise….this past Sunday has given me reason to be cautious. We should let the entire year play out for both players.
So we couldn't run for one game so we should abandon it and go away from the strength of the team and what has helped Giants be 7-3?
How does that make an iota of sense?
You play to their strength of your team. Not the other way around.
in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
If Barkley were a solid returner I would have no issue with him being back there fielding punts. My concern with him fielding punts would be more about his poor hands, as we have seen in the passing game. He is a dynamic runner but his hands are average at best for a RB.
he was a 5th round pick. Been hurt or not that great his whole career. We drafted Ezeudu in the 3rd. There is zero point in starting Lemieux unless Ezeudu is hurt. They are equals in terms of their play so why are we going back to the well with Lemieux at this point. The guy hasn't done anything.
If you want to credit the DE, that's fine. The issue continues to be that he didn't see the DE.
If you throw a ball into a defenders hands and he drops it, it's a bad decision by the QB, period, full stop. You just got away with it.
If you throw a pass at a defender in zone coverage because you didn't see the defender, that is a bad play by the QB.
Meanwhile, Giants DB misses an INT thrown right at him - I mean between the numbers - that probably is returned for a significant gain at an important juncture, but DET DE makes a really great finger tip INT that leads to a scoring play.
Those are the breaks and that's the NFL. Goff comes out unscathed, and DJ takes some lumps.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
It was a bad throw, Cager had no chance. The only way he could have alligator-armed it was if his arms were 6 ft long. This excuse and the “it was like a punt” excuse are why many of Jones’s defenders can’t be taken seriously. There can’t be ANY critique of St Daniel. It was a bad throw. It happens, but be honest and call it what it is.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
It was a bad throw, Cager had no chance. The only way he could have alligator-armed it was if his arms were 6 ft long. This excuse and the “it was like a punt” excuse are why many of Jones’s defenders can’t be taken seriously. There can’t be ANY critique of St Daniel. It was a bad throw. It happens, but be honest and call it what it is.
The margin for error is so slim that any poor pass is now scrutinized and put under a microscope. All QBs make bad throws on occasion. Eli had many awshits throws IIRC as well.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I didn't think the second interception was such a bad one.
I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
It was a bad throw, Cager had no chance. The only way he could have alligator-armed it was if his arms were 6 ft long. This excuse and the “it was like a punt” excuse are why many of Jones’s defenders can’t be taken seriously. There can’t be ANY critique of St Daniel. It was a bad throw. It happens, but be honest and call it what it is.
The margin for error is so slim that any poor pass is now scrutinized and put under a microscope. All QBs make bad throws on occasion. Eli had many awshits throws IIRC as well.
All that was/is needed was/is an acknowledgement that it was a bad throw. It becomes larger when those want to argue that it wasn't.
Watching the All-22 with Dan and Nick commentating,
it looks like our linebackers tend to be late with play recognition; McFadden bit on a play-action pass that resulted in a 32-yard gain to Amon Ra St. Brown while Smith wound up giving up the second Williams touchdown by thinking Williams was going to jump over the pile while he just skirted the pile and Smith was a step late and Williams scores.
Now how does one improve on reads as a linebacker?
what's Martindale thinking by dropping Jihad Ward, a 290-lb 3-4 DE type, into coverage with a tight end? I get the need to be multiple, but please, know what your players can and can't do and if Ward can't keep up with a tight end, he's probably not the best man for the job. He isn't like Strahan who could play man coverage on a tight end and make a pick-six. Even Sy mentions that Ward doing this isn't a good idea.
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Martindale put [Ward] into coverage on a couple of occasions via the zone blitz and it hurt the defense. Ward moves more like a defensive tackle than a linebacker. Stiff and slow.
As for Sy’s closing remark, any “progress” made could potentially *not* include Jones & Barkley going forward who are both pending free agents. That’s why it’s such a unique situation.
Glowinski should not be benched for Bredeson. No way.
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Do I get an apology for the sarcastic tone I got, when I suggested Glowinski should be benched for Bredeson?
Glowinski should not be benched for Bredeson. No way.
Did you read what he had to say on Glowinski? He’s been a weak point on the line all year.
This team had a small margin for error that injuries have now completely eliminated. I expect a lot of losses as we finish out the season. The team is playing hard, but we simply don't have the talent to withstand this many injuries. I think five players have now torn their ACLs, and others (Neal, Jackson, Robinson), have MCL injuries.
Hard to answer that from my seat. He was the Green Dot guy though - so it factors at least a little bit. Love is no slouch in the role, though.
I think simply not having McKinney out there as a player is the bigger issue.
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
Yea, missing that game was not a bad thing to do! On the Giants very first play from scrimmage, Barkley got nailed in the backfield. I believe that one was on Shane Lemieux, who got rag-dolled by Alim McNeill. In fact, McNeill made Lemieux look ugly all day long. In any event, after Barkley got stoned at the start of the game, he looked like he didn't want to carry the ball again.
Interesting take on the DAL game. Stranger things have happened.
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In comment 15917781 JoeyBigBlue said:
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Do I get an apology for the sarcastic tone I got, when I suggested Glowinski should be benched for Bredeson?
Glowinski should not be benched for Bredeson. No way.
Did you read what he had to say on Glowinski? He’s been a weak point on the line all year.
Haha. You do realize you’re replying to Sy, right? The “he” you’re referring to…
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so I appreciate the review.
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
Yea, missing that game was not a bad thing to do! On the Giants very first play from scrimmage, Barkley got nailed in the backfield. I believe that one was on Shane Lemieux, who got rag-dolled by Alim McNeill. In fact, McNeill made Lemieux look ugly all day long. In any event, after Barkley got stoned at the start of the game, he looked like he didn't want to carry the ball again.
Could be that shoulder is beyond sore.
I would like to see some Brightwell too.
Losing WanDale is a big loss but just looking at him on the field and how small he is Im still wondering if the 2nd round was too early to take that gamble. It seemed like every game he played he was injured in some wayand now with the ACL we may never see the player he was supposed to be again. Im not expecting anything out of this player going forward which is unfortunate. His game relies on his legs and even if he does come back next season, the impact will probably be minimal. I feel bad for the kid. This team has had the worst luck at the WR position. Next season we need need a whole new unit from top to bottom, Id get rid of them all and hope forRobinson in 2024.
Interesting take on the DAL game. Stranger things have happened.
Victor in CT -- someone on another thread said the same thing more-or-less. I responded to that with the following:
After a Dallas HUGE blow-out of Minny... and the Lions beat-down of the Giants... I can see where you are coming from. Sorta an unexpected reversal of fortune... a let down by the favorite and the over-performance of the angry underdog. I've seen it before, have seen it over 60 years of watching NFL football. So, it can happen. That said, it's hard to envision such a scenario with a defense that may have more holes in its dike than Wink has fingers.
LOL… Im at work and just saw that. Need my morning coffee.
The offensive line was not good, there is no doubt about that BUT, Breida played better than Barkley and was attacking far harder than Barkley was.
**BTW the Lions and their Oline build might be a great example of why you don't spend BIG $$$ on a Running Back.
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for this Thanksgiving.
Interesting take on the DAL game. Stranger things have happened.
Victor in CT -- someone on another thread said the same thing more-or-less. I responded to that with the following:
After a Dallas HUGE blow-out of Minny... and the Lions beat-down of the Giants... I can see where you are coming from. Sorta an unexpected reversal of fortune... a let down by the favorite and the over-performance of the angry underdog. I've seen it before, have seen it over 60 years of watching NFL football. So, it can happen. That said, it's hard to envision such a scenario with a defense that may have more holes in its dike than Wink has fingers.
Yes it's not impossible. I actually thanked my Vikes fan friend for them making DAL overconfident LOL!
I was actually worried about this game from the moment McKinney got hurt. You could see it in the Texans game that the 2ndary was not nearly as tight.
Should the Giants not make the playoffs, the galactically stupid dereliction of duty by McKinney and the unfathomable decision to have Jackson returning punts will be significant reasons why. Any success this team has had in the first half of the season has been dependent on a quality bend but don't break defense. It simply has not looked the same these past two weeks, notwithstanding the win against the lowly Texans. I suspect they will struggle in the coming weeks given the schedule difficulty, putting that much more unneeded pressure on the offense.
I love your optimism Sy about Thursday, but if the defense plays like it did Sunday, the Giants will get blown out...
I am curious what went into the decision to start shane lemieux. Did he really look that much better in practice or were they trying to give the line a jolt?
As Sy said, the AJ punt return decision was boneheaded. Two big mistakes from the staff right there. Not down on them, just gotta call it like we see it.
Should the Giants not make the playoffs, the galactically stupid dereliction of duty by McKinney and the unfathomable decision to have Jackson returning punts will be significant reasons why. Any success this team has had in the first half of the season has been dependent on a quality bend but don't break defense. It simply has not looked the same these past two weeks, notwithstanding the win against the lowly Texans. I suspect they will struggle in the coming weeks given the schedule difficulty, putting that much more unneeded pressure on the offense.
I love your optimism Sy about Thursday, but if the defense plays like it did Sunday, the Giants will get blown out...
I'm with you 1000% on this. Dead on.
Should the Giants not make the playoffs, the galactically stupid dereliction of duty by McKinney and the unfathomable decision to have Jackson returning punts will be significant reasons why.
Hindsight is 20/20 but its quite possibly the worst coaching decision he has made thus far. We weren't relying on a dynamic return game so we really just needed a guy to fair catch punts.
That and McKinney's stupidity cost us a few games for sure. Ultimately this team isn't winning the super bowl either way so hopefully the mistakes are good learning experiences for coach and player.
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Do I get an apology for the sarcastic tone I got, when I suggested Glowinski should be benched for Bredeson?
Glowinski should not be benched for Bredeson. No way.
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In comment 15917781 JoeyBigBlue said:
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Do I get an apology for the sarcastic tone I got, when I suggested Glowinski should be benched for Bredeson?
Glowinski should not be benched for Bredeson. No way.
What about for Lemieux? I say no, but wonder if that's an option. I want Ezeudu to stick at LG because I think he's going to be there for a long while.
Yes please!! I think and have thought that Lemieux is awful.
Good news it was not Williams or Dex who were big reasons for the faulty run D. I was concerned with Dex's back.
I pretty much said the same thing regarding the Jackson decision. Mind boggling considering already losing X and the other corner spot already losing a starter.
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
I don't know if I would say they weren't prepared. They looked good until the Hutchinson INT. They never rebounded after that.
The second was a bad throw. I thought it was a great call and a great read. It was 4th and 5, but they had a receiver OPEN deep. Jones missed him badly, taking a great opportunity for points off the board.
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so I appreciate the review.
Sounds like there was not an entity in Blue that was prepared for Sunday, including the coaching staff. Detroit is a vastly improved team.
Kafka has got to shake things up. Game after game running Barkley into the wall was not going to work all season. Kafka seems reluctant to get things going in the 1st half. Somehow he has to get Cager and/or Golladay behind the 9 in the box.
I don't know if I would say they weren't prepared. They looked good until the Hutchinson INT. They never rebounded after that.
So 1 INT derailed an entire game plan. Down 10-6?(If I have the sequence correct)
INTs happen. Yes the Jones has had very few this year, but they happen to most teams. They need to get past that.
We were pissed at Garrett's vanilla plans. Yes they have had decent success of Barkley's running and some nice runs by Jones. But now that game plan is shot and it really has been since Seattle.
It should be interesting to see what they do now. It will be quite difficult to win now unless Kafka can get some early passing successes.
2) I thought that Ximines roughing penalty was one of the turning points. Those 3 points that followed were big, especially with our 2 missed PATs. In his short career, he has a bad history of stupid penalties like this.
3) I also agree with you about TE. I loved the Bellinger pick and like it even more with him on the field. I hope he's back Thursday. They need him. But, there really was nothing behind him. TE needs to be addressed this off season.
4) ILB is a huge problem. It is a big reason we are getting gashed by the run.
5) The pass rush has also been a big problem. I don't know why, but I have a gut feeling Thanksgiving is the game we see a break out performance by KT. We need it and we need Ojulari back.
6) Ezeudu needs to start the rest of the way. He is the best LG on the team, is getting better, and is the one most likely to start next year. He solves both the short term and long term need, in my opinion. Don't confuse this with thinking he is better than the reality. I recognize he is an average OL right now. But, the rest of the options are not even that.
The second was a bad throw. I thought it was a great call and a great read. It was 4th and 5, but they had a receiver OPEN deep. Jones missed him badly, taking a great opportunity for points off the board.
The 2nd INT was awful. The one to Hutchinson, he probably should not have thrown that but what other DE makes that catch? That was in no way shape or form a gimme INT. Hutchinson made a hell of a play there.
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I feel like I was the only person here for the last couple of days who saw both of those picks as bad plays by Jones. The first everyone has been writing off as a great play by Hutchinson. But, it was a zone blitz they have run before and not only did Jones not recognize it, but he threw it right to Hutchinson who was in his direct line of sight.
The second was a bad throw. I thought it was a great call and a great read. It was 4th and 5, but they had a receiver OPEN deep. Jones missed him badly, taking a great opportunity for points off the board.
The 2nd INT was awful. The one to Hutchinson, he probably should not have thrown that but what other DE makes that catch? That was in no way shape or form a gimme INT. Hutchinson made a hell of a play there.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
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but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
agree. sometimes the other guy makes a great play.
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but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
It was really an incredible play by Hutch. How many guys have the size/length, smarts, talent to drop back as a DE there and make that pick? Killer TO for the Giants, and a play that makes you drool if you're a Lions fan.
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but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
Agreed 100%. Now that second INT? That looked pretty bad.
2) I thought that Ximines roughing penalty was one of the turning points. Those 3 points that followed were big, especially with our 2 missed PATs. In his short career, he has a bad history of stupid penalties like this.
3) I also agree with you about TE. I loved the Bellinger pick and like it even more with him on the field. I hope he's back Thursday. They need him. But, there really was nothing behind him. TE needs to be addressed this off season.
4) ILB is a huge problem. It is a big reason we are getting gashed by the run.
5) The pass rush has also been a big problem. I don't know why, but I have a gut feeling Thanksgiving is the game we see a break out performance by KT. We need it and we need Ojulari back.
6) Ezeudu needs to start the rest of the way. He is the best LG on the team, is getting better, and is the one most likely to start next year. He solves both the short term and long term need, in my opinion. Don't confuse this with thinking he is better than the reality. I recognize he is an average OL right now. But, the rest of the options are not even that.
FA isn't the way to build a team, but you can bring in solid, stabilizing dudes at TE, IOL, and ILB through FA. Having street FA-level talent at those positions is hurting us even worse now that the injuries are hitting around them.
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1) I agree this was a game where more Breida would have been in order. I also agree, moving forward, we should see a lot more sets with both Barkley and Breida on the field at the same time. That has almost always resulted in a positive play thus far. It lends itself to a lot of misdirection and guessing because both are threats to run the ball or catch it, both can split wide, and both can motion and still be effective.
2) I thought that Ximines roughing penalty was one of the turning points. Those 3 points that followed were big, especially with our 2 missed PATs. In his short career, he has a bad history of stupid penalties like this.
3) I also agree with you about TE. I loved the Bellinger pick and like it even more with him on the field. I hope he's back Thursday. They need him. But, there really was nothing behind him. TE needs to be addressed this off season.
4) ILB is a huge problem. It is a big reason we are getting gashed by the run.
5) The pass rush has also been a big problem. I don't know why, but I have a gut feeling Thanksgiving is the game we see a break out performance by KT. We need it and we need Ojulari back.
6) Ezeudu needs to start the rest of the way. He is the best LG on the team, is getting better, and is the one most likely to start next year. He solves both the short term and long term need, in my opinion. Don't confuse this with thinking he is better than the reality. I recognize he is an average OL right now. But, the rest of the options are not even that.
FA isn't the way to build a team, but you can bring in solid, stabilizing dudes at TE, IOL, and ILB through FA. Having street FA-level talent at those positions is hurting us even worse now that the injuries are hitting around them.
that was actually a good drop on that INT, they would have had the ball at the 2. They held them and the Lions punted into the endzone and we got the ball at the 20.
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but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
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but Hutchinson made a very nice play. I did not realize he was 6'7" either. I wonder if Detroit scouted something and knew that play and Jones got baited.
Apparently, Detroit will drop Hutch in a zone once in a while. And while I'm clearly not fond of Jones as a long-term solution at QB, I think you have to give credit to Hutch (and the staff) for making a terrific play.
Furthermore, that ball was not thrown right to Hutch. He had to leap up and actually make a terrific grab. I've seen that play now from two field level angles and it was simply a high level play.
So, I'm less willing to kill Jones on that decision.
That's where I am with it. Watched the All-22 multiple times. Jones shouldn't have thrown it, but it took an incredible play that 90% of DEs couldn't hope to make.
The Giants in a tough spot with Jones. He seems to me to essentially Garropolo/Tannehill level QB. Could potentially be better if he had some talent around him, but I don't think he'll ever be a top 10 kind of guy. Good enough to win games with, maybe make a little bit of noise in the playoffs, but not good enough to be a year in/year out threat to go deep in the playoffs.
He's the kind of QB I wouldn't mind giving a bridge QB contract to while we find our guy. Say 2-4 years at 15-20 AAV. The problem is, I think so many teams need QBs that he'll be priced out of that range. Someone will see the shit he's been surrounded by and overpay with the belief that he'll be great with more talent around him. I'm not sure I really buy that. I'm not sure the guys available in this draft are going to end up any better, especially with where the Giants will be picking and how much it would cost to trade up for Stroud/Young. I'd be all for a bigtime trade up and neglecting the rest of the roster for a year if Schoen/Daboll believe that strongly in one of them (I don't), I just don't see a Herbert/Mahomes/Allen kind of talent worth trading up for this year.
One exception is we beat Buffalo HOF roster team without our starting QB and RB but that's an outlier with Parcells and Little Bill and travelling back in the way back machine.
Turnovers are turnovers. You just can't have them with this team.
in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
If Barkley were a solid returner I would have no issue with him being back there fielding punts. My concern with him fielding punts would be more about his poor hands, as we have seen in the passing game. He is a dynamic runner but his hands are average at best for a RB.
The offensive line was not good, there is no doubt about that BUT, Breida played better than Barkley and was attacking far harder than Barkley was.
**BTW the Lions and their Oline build might be a great example of why you don't spend BIG $$$ on a Running Back.
There are a faction here who have sacred cow players you can never criticize. If they have a good game it is because they are really good. If they have an off game it is because of all the crap around them. Their play never varies from game to game. Ever.
And the game was out of hand, certainly not the worst decision. As Parcells told Simms he's not doing his job if he doesn't throw any ints.
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in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
If Barkley were a solid returner I would have no issue with him being back there fielding punts. My concern with him fielding punts would be more about his poor hands, as we have seen in the passing game. He is a dynamic runner but his hands are average at best for a RB.
Barkley had great hands coming out of PSU. Dropped 1 or 2 his rookie year. Now he is a bit suspect, probably trying to rum before securing the ball.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
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They were on the Detroit 40, so it was almost like a punt. The Hammer probably would have put it in the endzone anyway for a touchback. The other possibility is that they would go for it on fourth down, (I think it was third and 15). But, we know how difficult it is for them to convert on that. Maybe Jones threw it up for grabs figuring it was their best shot to make something happen.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
But, checking down to Robinson underneath would also have been acceptable.
I think we will be competitive but I see this team losing a lot of close games that remain. That’s ok, because we never thought we’d even have won this many games but we need to see how these players respond and remain competitive. And more importantly how the coaches adjust and keep this team in games. Hate to have the feeling that this year is pretty much a wrap at this point, but with all the critical losses and deficiencies at key positions I just don’t see us making much noise going further. It’s about 2023, and players that will remain key to the future will have to earn their paychecks from here forth.
Can’t wait for your draft pre-views especially WR, QB, and LBers. This team has some really good players, but still has some units completely barren of depth and talent (WR, TE, ILB). This will be a really interesting off-season to see what they do with resigning certain players (Dex, Jones, Barkley, Love)
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They were on the Detroit 40, so it was almost like a punt. The Hammer probably would have put it in the endzone anyway for a touchback. The other possibility is that they would go for it on fourth down, (I think it was third and 15). But, we know how difficult it is for them to convert on that. Maybe Jones threw it up for grabs figuring it was their best shot to make something happen.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
It was 4th down, not 3rd. Jones got rid of the ball at pretty much the last second. Stepped up in the pocket and had an arm in his face. Not a good throw, that's on Jones. It looked like Cager alligator armed it and then didn't try to make a play on the defender after he ran into him. First time I've seen a TE bounce off a DB like that.
And Jackson likely could do some of the things McKinney is tasked to do.
Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
It was 4th down, not 3rd. Jones got rid of the ball at pretty much the last second. Stepped up in the pocket and had an arm in his face. Not a good throw, that's on Jones. It looked like Cager alligator armed it and then didn't try to make a play on the defender after he ran into him. First time I've seen a TE bounce off a DB like that.
I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
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Totally disagree. It was a bad INT because Jones airmailed an open Cager. Furthermore, Jones had WDR on the drag route underneath and there was a good possibility he gets the first down because he was being covered by a LB.
So, Jones had two options and didn't execute either opportunity.
It was 4th down, not 3rd. Jones got rid of the ball at pretty much the last second. Stepped up in the pocket and had an arm in his face. Not a good throw, that's on Jones. It looked like Cager alligator armed it and then didn't try to make a play on the defender after he ran into him. First time I've seen a TE bounce off a DB like that.
I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
Didn’t the pick happen on 4th and 5? Not exactly a throwaway situation. They also returned it to the Giants 41. Not exactly just like a punt.
Losing WanDale is a big loss but just looking at him on the field and how small he is Im still wondering if the 2nd round was too early to take that gamble. It seemed like every game he played he was injured in some wayand now with the ACL we may never see the player he was supposed to be again. Im not expecting anything out of this player going forward which is unfortunate. His game relies on his legs and even if he does come back next season, the impact will probably be minimal. I feel bad for the kid. This team has had the worst luck at the WR position. Next season we need need a whole new unit from top to bottom, Id get rid of them all and hope forRobinson in 2024.
Jones he was not making the right read ....
#2….yeah Daniel overthrew him, but Daniel threw 44 passes that day….no one is perfect. Look at how many interceptions the Great Josh Allen has thrown the past 3 games. Look at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers….and on and on
Besides, it was a 4th and 5 so even if the pass was just knocked down, they still get the ball back anyhow. And in case you forgot, Detroit did not score any points off that turnover. They did score points off of the 1st turnover and Hodgins fumble though.
But back to Hodgins….what I liked about his game is that he had separation and he has tremendos hands, unlike Slayton. I always hold my breath when the ball goes to hi…I expect him to drop all long passes or at least bobble it, which gives me added stress, and am surprised when he doesn’t.
Besides, it was a 4th and 5 so even if the pass was just knocked down, they still get the ball back anyhow. And in case you forgot, Detroit did not score any points off that turnover. They did score points off of the 1st turnover and Hodgins fumble though.
Why does this keep getting repeated? A good throw and they convert the 4th and 5 most likely. Why do we shrug our shoulders and say “welp it was 4th anyway”? The reaction wouldn’t be the same if Cager dropped the pass.
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Besides, it was a 4th and 5 so even if the pass was just knocked down, they still get the ball back anyhow. And in case you forgot, Detroit did not score any points off that turnover. They did score points off of the 1st turnover and Hodgins fumble though.
Why does this keep getting repeated? A good throw and they convert the 4th and 5 most likely. Why do we shrug our shoulders and say “welp it was 4th anyway”? The reaction wouldn’t be the same if Cager dropped the pass.
Did you not read my entire post? I said it was not good but I reminded guys like you, he threw 44 times….even great QBs make a bad throw every so often.
So, do you think he should be perfect on all 44 throws? Have you ever played QB in HS, College, or Recreation football? We’re you 100% accurate with your passes.
My second point was- even if the pass got batted down, rather than picked, they still get the ball back….same result.
Please read and ponder better before responding.
#2….yeah Daniel overthrew him, but Daniel threw 44 passes that day….no one is perfect. Look at how many interceptions the Great Josh Allen has thrown the past 3 games. Look at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers….and on and on
We were down 24-6 with 7+ minutes in the third. That would have been a huge conversion and created much needed momentum.
So, I'm not buying it was "like a punt, so let it go" angle. Mistakes get compounded when you are trailing and looking for a spark.
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#2….yeah Daniel overthrew him, but Daniel threw 44 passes that day….no one is perfect. Look at how many interceptions the Great Josh Allen has thrown the past 3 games. Look at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers….and on and on
We were down 24-6 with 7+ minutes in the third. That would have been a huge conversion and created much needed momentum.
So, I'm not buying it was "like a punt, so let it go" angle. Mistakes get compounded when you are trailing and looking for a spark.
Well, imwould expect you to say nothing less bw, knowing how much you want to ride Jones out of town and pick up a guy like Pickett or Willis…..but getting back to that throw….
We are down 24-6 and Jones makes a bad pass, and so you want to crucify him for it. I’m glad the game wasn’t tied up…you would have gone berserk.
Getting back to that play….I don’t recall…was Cager that wide open? As best as I can recall, Danny had to throw it quickly due to pressure, but not clear on the entire context of the play. I’m sure Danny would tell you he would take the blame for that pass but again may I just remind you….he is not a robot. He has been very accurate all year with minimal turnovers- that one play at 24-6 was not as big a deal as you want to make it. I think the Hodgins fumble at 24-12 with about 9 minutes to play was the play that certainly was the most disappointing.
And of course all the penalties we had to stop drives were back breaking.
My reaction….”now I see why the Jets let you go.” Lol. Seriously, I’d be disappointed, but I’m rooting for him to succeed. You always hope they can minimize mistakes.
Cager did drop a two point conversion….not that it mattered. And Hodgins did fumble with the score 24-12, which hurt….but, I’m not mad at him for that. The kid has lots of promise and I think can be a very dependable large body target here for years to come. I’m sure he feels badly about the fumble.
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#2….yeah Daniel overthrew him, but Daniel threw 44 passes that day….no one is perfect. Look at how many interceptions the Great Josh Allen has thrown the past 3 games. Look at Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers….and on and on
We were down 24-6 with 7+ minutes in the third. That would have been a huge conversion and created much needed momentum.
So, I'm not buying it was "like a punt, so let it go" angle. Mistakes get compounded when you are trailing and looking for a spark.
Honestly more upset at the playcall before. I believe it was 3rd and 6 and we called a run play that went for a yard
It was just a poor effort by everyone.
in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
This argument only works if you assume that Barkley has a better skill set for returning punts than Jackson. Not sure why that's taken as a given. And in any case, teams putting starting skill position players out to return kicks is not unusual. The Giants once did it with Tiki.
you can collect attaboy throws all day long.
one awshit wipes them all out.
That's the nature of the game. make enough throws, you're going to get an awshit.
I think they should open the playbook up. Put Jones a more aggressive mode. See if he can run the system. Every game, it seems like people are commenting about how Jones missed an open guy. So, as bad as the receiving core is, they can get open. Maybe don't go pedal to the medal, but I think they need to see if Jones can be more than a game manager.
There were 8 punt returns TD in 2020.
Since then, including this year, there have been 3.
Well, imwould expect you to say nothing less bw, knowing how much you want to ride Jones out of town and pick up a guy like Pickett or Willis…..but getting back to that throw….
We are down 24-6 and Jones makes a bad pass, and so you want to crucify him for it. I’m glad the game wasn’t tied up…you would have gone berserk.
Getting back to that play….I don’t recall…was Cager that wide open? As best as I can recall, Danny had to throw it quickly due to pressure, but not clear on the entire context of the play. I’m sure Danny would tell you he would take the blame for that pass but again may I just remind you….he is not a robot. He has been very accurate all year with minimal turnovers- that one play at 24-6 was not as big a deal as you want to make it. I think the Hodgins fumble at 24-12 with about 9 minutes to play was the play that certainly was the most disappointing.
And of course all the penalties we had to stop drives were back breaking.
You are assuming what my tone is. I'm really just describing the play as I saw it on the various replays. And then the impact the INT had one the flow of the game.
As I said earlier, I actually give Jones a pass on the first INT. But he needed to make that play on 4th down. It was a pivotal time.
you can collect attaboy throws all day long.
one awshit wipes them all out.
That's the nature of the game. make enough throws, you're going to get an awshit.
I think they should open the playbook up. Put Jones a more aggressive mode. See if he can run the system. Every game, it seems like people are commenting about how Jones missed an open guy. So, as bad as the receiving core is, they can get open. Maybe don't go pedal to the medal, but I think they need to see if Jones can be more than a game manager.
You owe it to evry other player on teh team (not named Jones) to try to play to the bets style that gives you the best chance to win.
You're a type of fan that sees a picture that the team is ultimately going nowhere this year at best Playoffs - one round and out. None of those players feel that way or maybe someone like Golladay does b- but not the team.
And they are laos playing for livelihood - their next contracts. To shuck the best opportunity to win in favor of "let's se what Jones can do" when Giants are in a playoff race is not the best idea.
The Jets coach is sort of feeling that wrath too.
There are other player's on the team to consider beside the qb.
That's on Jones.
That's on Jones.
Not all turnovers are created equal. I suggest you watch the field level replay of that play by Hutch. You can see it in the link below.
Hutch - great play. - ( New Window )
As for Sy’s closing remark, any “progress” made could potentially *not* include Jones & Barkley going forward who are both pending free agents.
I agree but where did SY say this?
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It was a turnover.
That's on Jones.
Not all turnovers are created equal. I suggest you watch the field level replay of that play by Hutch. You can see it in the link below.
Hutch - great play. - ( New Window )
It doesn't matter all turnovers are not created equal. That is not the point. What just because one turnover could happen in the 10 seconds and turn a tie game into a loss vs a game where a turnover destroys the momentum but the team recovers takes the lead but then eventually loses late it means because they aren't equal that the 2nd play wasn't bad too?
I suggest you try to understand what is a good play vs what is a bad play. A turnover in this instance was a bad play by the QB.
If you throw a ball into a defenders hands and he drops it, it's a bad decision by the QB, period, full stop. You just got away with it.
If you throw a pass at a defender in zone coverage because you didn't see the defender, that is a bad play by the QB.
Exactly.
Now, maybe Daboll doesn't think the team can be successful in the air, for whatever reason. Certainly, he knows more than me and 99 % of the fans, but it isn't unreasonable to think nothing but run is not a sustainable model for success.
Now, maybe Daboll doesn't think the team can be successful in the air, for whatever reason. Certainly, he knows more than me and 99 % of the fans, but it isn't unreasonable to think nothing but run is not a sustainable model for success.
They won 7 game by being a run dominant team. Why play against your strength? They didn't run "All the time" but run a lot.
I agree with you - can't run every play. But imo their best success has been dominant run team and short quick passes mostly.
Teams like San Fran in the past and Tennessee have done well as run dominant.
And then when the score became 24-6 immediately after halftime, what did you expect Kafka to call? More Barkley up the middle for one yard?
We scored 3 tds and could have had at least one more had it not been for penalties. 4 TDs and still lose would have been newsworthy. When have we scored 4 tds in one game this year?
Well, there’s one thing I’ve noticed on this thread….more people are pissed off at one pass in particular Jones didn’t make instead of the 15 useless carries by Barkley.
What concerns me about this is it appears we may open up our wallets, and cap space, for a RB much like Dallas did for Zeke Elliot. I’m not so sure this is wise….this past Sunday has given me reason to be cautious. We should let the entire year play out for both players.
And then when the score became 24-6 immediately after halftime, what did you expect Kafka to call? More Barkley up the middle for one yard?
We scored 3 tds and could have had at least one more had it not been for penalties. 4 TDs and still lose would have been newsworthy. When have we scored 4 tds in one game this year?
Well, there’s one thing I’ve noticed on this thread….more people are pissed off at one pass in particular Jones didn’t make instead of the 15 useless carries by Barkley.
What concerns me about this is it appears we may open up our wallets, and cap space, for a RB much like Dallas did for Zeke Elliot. I’m not so sure this is wise….this past Sunday has given me reason to be cautious. We should let the entire year play out for both players.
So we couldn't run for one game so we should abandon it and go away from the strength of the team and what has helped Giants be 7-3?
How does that make an iota of sense?
You play to their strength of your team. Not the other way around.
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in light of Adoree Jackson injury, I invite you to read these remarks from Sy'56:
"If NYG wanted to put a premium playmaker in the return game, why not put Saquon Barkley back there? Because you don’t want him getting hurt. Then why put Adoree’ Jackson, who in my opinion was the most important player on defense, in that role? This coaching staff has been amazing from the start and Daboll is in the running for Coach of the Year. But that was the wrong move and they’re going to pay for it."
If Barkley were a solid returner I would have no issue with him being back there fielding punts. My concern with him fielding punts would be more about his poor hands, as we have seen in the passing game. He is a dynamic runner but his hands are average at best for a RB.
First time I've heard that.
Done? It’s Shane’s first game in nearly 2 years….
If you throw a ball into a defenders hands and he drops it, it's a bad decision by the QB, period, full stop. You just got away with it.
If you throw a pass at a defender in zone coverage because you didn't see the defender, that is a bad play by the QB.
Meanwhile, Giants DB misses an INT thrown right at him - I mean between the numbers - that probably is returned for a significant gain at an important juncture, but DET DE makes a really great finger tip INT that leads to a scoring play.
Those are the breaks and that's the NFL. Goff comes out unscathed, and DJ takes some lumps.
I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
It was a bad throw, Cager had no chance. The only way he could have alligator-armed it was if his arms were 6 ft long. This excuse and the “it was like a punt” excuse are why many of Jones’s defenders can’t be taken seriously. There can’t be ANY critique of St Daniel. It was a bad throw. It happens, but be honest and call it what it is.
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I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
It was a bad throw, Cager had no chance. The only way he could have alligator-armed it was if his arms were 6 ft long. This excuse and the “it was like a punt” excuse are why many of Jones’s defenders can’t be taken seriously. There can’t be ANY critique of St Daniel. It was a bad throw. It happens, but be honest and call it what it is.
The margin for error is so slim that any poor pass is now scrutinized and put under a microscope. All QBs make bad throws on occasion. Eli had many awshits throws IIRC as well.
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In comment 15918205 bw in dc said:
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I'll watch it again but I'm fairly certain that pass was high and behind Cager. He had no chance to make a play. He's exonerated in my view...
As I mentioned earlier, Jones also had WDR underneath for a much easier completion and missed that, too.
It was a bad throw, Cager had no chance. The only way he could have alligator-armed it was if his arms were 6 ft long. This excuse and the “it was like a punt” excuse are why many of Jones’s defenders can’t be taken seriously. There can’t be ANY critique of St Daniel. It was a bad throw. It happens, but be honest and call it what it is.
The margin for error is so slim that any poor pass is now scrutinized and put under a microscope. All QBs make bad throws on occasion. Eli had many awshits throws IIRC as well.
All that was/is needed was/is an acknowledgement that it was a bad throw. It becomes larger when those want to argue that it wasn't.
Now how does one improve on reads as a linebacker?
Defensive Film Review: Giants still have no answer for power/gap, here’s what needs to change - ( New Window )