Why are the Giants the most injured team ?

games missed number.

Chad Jones
JPP
Beatty (weight lifting torn pec)
McKinney

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Most injured team since 2009 and head trainer is best in the league. Barnes needs to go.

they were playing in a different stadium then, and none of those players or coaches are still here.

Last 5 years would be a better time frame to see how they stack up against other teams.

Even the last 10 years would be a more useful range.

Over the last 3-5 years I think Baltimore is the worst for injuries.

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Seems to indicate the turf in Atlanta is better than the turf at Metlife, and they have a better training staff

I'm sure you can get a pretty high paying job with the organization...

Honestly, I think, as you said, its something that's has multiple route causes all colliding at once.

In comment 15918098 japanhead said:

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they were playing in a different stadium then, and none of those players or coaches are still here. Last 5 years would be a better time frame to see how they stack up against other teams. Even the last 10 years would be a more useful range. Over the last 3-5 years I think Baltimore is the worst for injuries.

Maybe how they stack up against the Jets. If it's the turf, wouldn't the Jets be the 2nd most injured since moving to the new stadium?

injuries?

If the Jets aren't close to us in missed time then the turf in MetLife shouldn't be blamed

Physical health and wellness has changed drastically in the last 40 years. Yet the Giants head AT has been around longer. We've seen how the Giants way of doing things has failed. Ronnie Barnes is as highly respected as a person that you can find in any field. His legacy gives him job security and the Mara family loyalty guarantees he won't be criticized. But there's not many constants since 2009. I don't know if he's at fault. I'd be more inclined to play the practice facility. The organization is foolish if they don't take this problem seriously and leave no stone unturned to remedy it. Knowing Mara we can have this thread every year for the next 5 years or maybe longer.

The source of that data does have more recent tweets about this year. This is one from 11/9 (so a few weeks out of date):
https://twitter.com/ManGamesLostNFL/status/1590511557779152896 - ( New Window )

Doing stupid shit like endless max deadlifts is very old school in sports.The VMO muscle in the knee can be trained for stability and agility but all the adjoining muscles need to be able to expand and flex. If you overdo hypertrophy, the muscles generate too much force for the joint. This is why Tom Brady(longevity) uses elasticity training and doesn't focus on too much muscle growth. Especially the running components of the team need to focus on single-legged strength and getting the ankle flexion maximized. I also think the cleats are not good for the turf. The turf doesn't tear like grass. You can't slip much with cleats so the ACL goes kaploweeeeeeeeee. But that makes more slips, but slips are a force release and better than chickenwinging your joints.

Knees over toes guy - ( New Window )

In comment 15918098 japanhead said:

Quote:

they were playing in a different stadium then, and none of those players or coaches are still here. Last 5 years would be a better time frame to see how they stack up against other teams. Even the last 10 years would be a more useful range. Over the last 3-5 years I think Baltimore is the worst for injuries.

_____________________________________ Changing one fact doesn’t change the narrative. Make it 2010. Does that make you feel better? Wanna make it 2013? Why? Pretty arbitrary too. Wanna make it 2017 after the last Giants playoff appearance? Fine but still arbitrary. Does it really matter? ______________________________

In comment 15918098 japanhead said:

Quote:

they were playing in a different stadium then, and none of those players or coaches are still here. Last 5 years would be a better time frame to see how they stack up against other teams. Even the last 10 years would be a more useful range. Over the last 3-5 years I think Baltimore is the worst for injuries.

If you read the article it says...

"The only exception was their 11-5 finish in 2016, when — you guessed it — they managed to keep their injuries in check.

Since then, the Giants have been at the top of the league in a category called “man games lost” and it’s no wonder they’ve become bottom-dwellers, losing 10 or more games in seven of the last eight seasons."

So there from 2017 until now we are at the top of the league.

Numbers don't lie.

In comment 15918264 Ivan15 said:

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In comment 15918098 japanhead said: Quote: they were playing in a different stadium then, and none of those players or coaches are still here. Last 5 years would be a better time frame to see how they stack up against other teams. Even the last 10 years would be a more useful range. Over the last 3-5 years I think Baltimore is the worst for injuries. _____________________________________ Changing one fact doesn’t change the narrative. Make it 2010. Does that make you feel better? Wanna make it 2013? Why? Pretty arbitrary too. Wanna make it 2017 after the last Giants playoff appearance? Fine but still arbitrary. Does it really matter? ______________________________

yes, it matters, a lot.

because if you change the unit of analysis the rank order of injured teams changes.

"the narrative" that the giants are the most injured team in football every year and have been for over a decade is just that - a narrative.

in fact, from 2014-2018, the giants were not even in the top half of teams with the most injuries.

moreover, there are data over the same time period (2009-2021) that dispute the claim in the OP that the giants are or have been the most injured team.

as you will see in the link below-- they were not even in the top 5 most injured teams.

they ARE currently the most injured team this season, through week 11.

but as of week 6 this season, they didn't even crack the top 20 for most injuries.

what team is the "most injured" is constantly in flux.
Giants NOT in the top 5 most injured teams 2009-2021 - ( New Window )

In comment 15918115 Optimus-NY said:

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^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^ Guy was great....pay him whatever he wants

In comment 15918204 MeanBunny said:

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Doing stupid shit like endless max deadlifts is very old school in sports.The VMO muscle in the knee can be trained for stability and agility but all the adjoining muscles need to be able to expand and flex. If you overdo hypertrophy, the muscles generate too much force for the joint. This is why Tom Brady(longevity) uses elasticity training and doesn't focus on too much muscle growth. Especially the running components of the team need to focus on single-legged strength and getting the ankle flexion maximized. I also think the cleats are not good for the turf. The turf doesn't tear like grass. You can't slip much with cleats so the ACL goes kaploweeeeeeeeee. But that makes more slips, but slips are a force release and better than chickenwinging your joints. Knees over toes guy - ( New Window )

How many athletic trainers are having their athletes do endless max deadlifts? I would hope very few, especially during the season.

I have watched a lot of Knees Over Toes Guys content and think he is onto something. I also think he misses on some things, like most YouTube fitness influencers.

There are 16 teams that play on turf. There are 5 different turf companies

As someone pointed out - what are the Jets injuries like

Minn has the same turf as NY

Plenty of prominent players get hurt playing on grass

You can’t stop what happens with people landing on you and getting hurt as that happens every game

Is 1 turf more detrimental to injuries than another

Denver always has players hurt and plays on grass as does GB. Buffalo seems to usually be healthy as do the Pats who play on turf

In comment 15918311 japanhead said:

Quote:

In comment 15918264 Ivan15 said: Quote: In comment 15918098 japanhead said: Quote: they were playing in a different stadium then, and none of those players or coaches are still here. Last 5 years would be a better time frame to see how they stack up against other teams. Even the last 10 years would be a more useful range. Over the last 3-5 years I think Baltimore is the worst for injuries. _____________________________________ Changing one fact doesn’t change the narrative. Make it 2010. Does that make you feel better? Wanna make it 2013? Why? Pretty arbitrary too. Wanna make it 2017 after the last Giants playoff appearance? Fine but still arbitrary. Does it really matter? ______________________________ yes, it matters, a lot. because if you change the unit of analysis the rank order of injured teams changes. "the narrative" that the giants are the most injured team in football every year and have been for over a decade is just that - a narrative. in fact, from 2014-2018, the giants were not even in the top half of teams with the most injuries. moreover, there are data over the same time period (2009-2021) that dispute the claim in the OP that the giants are or have been the most injured team. as you will see in the link below-- they were not even in the top 5 most injured teams. they ARE currently the most injured team this season, through week 11. but as of week 6 this season, they didn't even crack the top 20 for most injuries. what team is the "most injured" is constantly in flux. Giants NOT in the top 5 most injured teams 2009-2021 - ( New Window )

Solid post!

japanhead's post reminds me of this back & forth in 'My Cousin Vinny':

Vinny Gambini: I object to this witness being called at this time. We've been given no prior notice he'd testify. No discovery of any tests he's conducted or reports he's prepared. And as the court is aware, the defense is entitled to advance notice of any witness who will testify, particularly to those who will give scientific evidence, so that we can properly prepare for cross-examination, as well as to give the defense an opportunity to have the witness's reports reviewed by a defense expert, who might then be in a position to contradict the veracity of his conclusions.

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Mr. Gambini?

Vinny Gambini: Yes, sir?

Judge Chamberlain Haller: That is a lucid, intelligent, well thought-out objection.

Vinny Gambini: Thank you, Your Honor.

Judge Chamberlain Haller: Overruled.

The turf is culprit #1, but the Giants having very bad Offensive & Defensive lines means that our LB's & DB's are getting hammered by the Offensive line's pushing up field. Our Offensive line is getting pushed back in an awkward position leading to injuries. And because the QB has little time to throw, the WR's are getting hit faster, then can't get space...

Among them (but not limited to) the following -

1. An inept college scouting corps who have failed to do their due diligence in identifying possible draft picks who have a history of serious injury; prime example - 2nd round draft pick Marvin Austin. Who knows how many others have slipped in, only to have shorted pro careers.

2. Failing to ascertain the cumulative effect of how many college plays the draft pick accumulated in college. Prime Example - Heismman Trophy winner Ron Dayne was basically "done" when he came to the Giants, due to the pounding he endured at Wisconsin.

3. Failing to ascertain the lingering effect of serious injury
when signing free agents; recklessly ignoring the old adage "buyer beware"; Prime Example - Kenny Gollady. He was broken when he came here, and still we sold the farm to pay him.

4. (As mentioned) - Way too much repetitive heavy weight training. In the freight hauling business, the amount of cargo you can haul is basically only limited by the number of axels on your trailer. The guys playing ball only have two legs, we don't know how to put more legs on them.

5. The NFL is good about in-season drug testing, but are some teams better at encouraging their players not to "juice up" in the off season ? We all hear comments about so-and-so looks so much bigger and stronger, this year, coming in. Then he gets hurt over-and-over and we start questioning his commitment, and bad mouthing him.

6. Not every player is as smart (or has six Super Bowl ring "cred")as Tom Brady, who does his own thing. Tiki in his own way also helped him self with his personal chiropractor and massage therapist). Other guys have invested their own hyperbaric therapy machines).

Guys like Ronnie Barnes know this but keep it all to themselves because they know the NFL is about WINNING and it's not their place to complain, just to patch up the wounded and hope those bodies hold up well

You've cracked the case.

Most of us know how special Ronnie Barnes is to the Mara family but it's time for an evaluation of the whole staff.
These injuries over the years have terrible.
Schoen revamped the scouts and other areas within the team. Let us give him responsibility to update the training group
My wife who is sometime fan and watches most of the games with me has been asking the same questions for about 5 years.
Why do so many Giants get injured? Is it a trainer problem?
How do other teams have fewer injuries?

is from the strength and conditioning coach, not the trainers.

I love how it is pointed out that other teams with the same turf have much lower incidents(including the Jets at the same stadium) yet the next posters blame the MetLife turf. While I agree grass is much better than turf, if you want to blame the specific turf at Metlife the evidence really does not support that.

If Schoen and Daboll feel that there is something wrong in the staff, you can bet it will be changed next post season.

please post a rational explanation of the methods that athletic training staffs use to PREVENT injury? They aren't responsible for conditioning, for stretching, for training. They are responsible for doing light taping and strapping and for using braces. Once injuries happen, they are responsible for the treatment of those and to do heavier taping to keep mild injuries from worsening.

Athletic trainers don't prevent knee injuries or muscle injuries - they treat them after they've occurred.

It would be helpful if people complaining about the trainers actually knew what responsibilities they have. This really shouldn't be a point of debate - but in the frustration to blame something for the injuries - it inevitably leads to Ronnie Barnes getting called out as if he's terrible at his job. Everyone in the athletic training industry disagrees with that.

towards the NYG injury woes.

I do see plenty of NYG players though getting injured when they are either playing somewhat out of control, taking unnecessary risks/blows or getting pushed around sideways or even backwards by the opposition.

Wan'Dale Robinson was a good example last week. He showed good effort after the catch but he left himself wide open to injury by the out of control manner in his attempt to gain an extra yard or so by the sideline. Robinson also seemed to consistently get tackled in a somewhat awkward manner earlier in the season and, as a result, got dinged up a few times.

Almost shocking Daniel Jones hasn't gotten injured yet this season based on how he takes blows while running, often with 2 defenders coming his way. And while he has improved with his slides, he still has a few plays each game where he goes down kind of in-between body and feet first in an odd manner.

And our questionable O-linemen are often getting pushed around (versus pushing the opposition) and that most certainly has resulted in additional injuries. This has gone on for years now and should be no surprise.

Physical game of course. But Giant players take the brunt on too many plays.

Big outlier injury was torn ACL by rb Breese Hall. Cost them a Barkley type chunk threat.

Injuries have been concentrated at OT where the Jets have had to scramble to put starting quality players on the field. It has affected the 2023 salary cap as I am sure they did not want to sign Duane Brown, but felt they had to when Becton went down in training camp.

Screams for some kind of a specialized task force to identify ALL of the contributing factors and the actions needed to mitigate it's severity.

More on Tiki - I recall him saying that besides using chiropractic adjustment and massage, he taught himself how to minimize the effects of being tackled by trying to anticipate the moment of collision then launching himself into the air (even if it was just a small hop) to keep his cleats caught on the ground.

Bottom line - It's an ORGANIZATIONAL problem .... GM, Player Personnel, Scouts, Coaches, Trainers, Players. All of them are guilty at some point, or other. Remember the old saying "the devil's in the detail", FIX it Giants, dump the voodoo loser cliche' - "injuries are a cancer".