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Is Barkley hurt ?

Archer : 11/24/2022 9:16 pm
Barkley has not looked the same the last three games.

He does not look fast or quick.
He is not making players miss him.
He looks of balance and seems to run into the ground.
He does not finish plays and seems to come up short, way to often.
His hands are awful he looks like he is fighting the ball.

Something is off

I hope he shakes out of it or the Giants will have no chance.
he looks  
bluefin : 11/24/2022 9:18 pm : link
beat up, understandably
Maybe but I  
jvm52106 : 11/24/2022 9:18 pm : link
Am just not spending big money on RB. Barkley will cost far more than what his play will return.
He’s def not running  
OBJ_AllDay : 11/24/2022 9:18 pm : link
With the anger we saw in week 1. I also remember him stiff arming defenders into the ground and fighting for extra yards as a rookie. Far too often he’s tackled softly a yard or two short of the sticks this year
He looks like he’s hit a wall…  
wma31 : 11/24/2022 9:19 pm : link
Maybe all the injuries over last few years have taken a toll. We were using him more than any back in the league first 8-9 games. Could be as simple as he’s just wearing down a bit.

I think it’s clear the burst isn’t there at the moment. Has slipped a few times in last few weeks. Doesn’t seem to have that explosion when he plants and goes as he did early in the season.

Maybe the extra few days before Washington game give him some extra energy. I wish I knew the answer.
Are people just forgetting the  
mittenedman : 11/24/2022 9:20 pm : link
separated shoulder?

He hasn't been the same since.
He's wearing down since it's the 2nd half of the season.  
Dave in Hoboken : 11/24/2022 9:21 pm : link
No way you give this guy a long term contract.
I would be willing to bet  
Dave on the UWS : 11/24/2022 9:21 pm : link
he’s playing with a dislocated shoulder that may need surgery in the off season. We’ll see
I think that right shoulder  
section125 : 11/24/2022 9:22 pm : link
is hurting more than he is saying...

Also, he seems to be wearing the wrong shoes. He trips himself - catches the front cleats often and then stumbles just as it appears he is about gone.
RE: Maybe but I  
5BowlsSoon : 11/24/2022 9:25 pm : link
In comment 15921307 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Am just not spending big money on RB. Barkley will cost far more than what his play will return.


He definitely looks slower to the line. Huge difference and notable the way Brightwell hit the line running. Maybe the 35 carry day has wiped him out.

As for should we resign him, I felt Dallas made a mistake giving Zeke all that money….I too feel you can’t unload the bank on a RB.
 
ryanmkeane : 11/24/2022 9:29 pm : link
It’s clearly the shoulder
If the shoulder is slowing him down  
Bill in UT : 11/24/2022 9:31 pm : link
it's just another injury to add to the list. Brightwell looked like he ran harder than Barkley today. And Barkley's receiving was nothing to write home about. He had the big drop on a short pass. And in the 4th qtr, he was stopped in his tracks by Wilson?, #6, db, on a high tackle.
I think Barkley is hurt and would be better off  
JerrysKids : 11/24/2022 9:32 pm : link
taking a few weeks off. He is completely ineffective right now. I watched all his runs against the lions in detail, he was indecisive, tentative, legs paralyzed as soon as a defender was close to him.
He's hurt  
M.S. : 11/24/2022 9:44 pm : link

and he should not be playing right now.

He looks slow and tentative. And beat up.
I  
AcidTest : 11/24/2022 9:53 pm : link
agree with what others have said. He looks slow, tired, and injured. His shoulder seems injured. He's really taken a pounding this year. Lots of carriers behind a subpar OL and constantly facing eight and nine man fronts.

The Giants should absolutely play Brightwell and Breida more. Teams are keying on Barkley. I'd use him as a decoy as the Giants did on those two runs with Brightwell, and in the passing game. I'm also fine sitting him for a few games to let him rest.
Goes down like jello  
Carl in CT : 11/24/2022 9:54 pm : link
No yards after contact.
All of those carries in the Houston game  
AG5686 : 11/24/2022 9:56 pm : link
Seems to have taken a big bite out of him
RE: Are people just forgetting the  
OBJ_AllDay : 11/24/2022 9:57 pm : link
In comment 15921320 mittenedman said:
Quote:
separated shoulder?

He hasn't been the same since.


There’s no way he separated his shoulder and didn’t miss a game…
He's playing injured because it's a big contract season  
Producer : 11/24/2022 9:58 pm : link
Lots of money riding on playing.
RE: He's playing injured because it's a big contract season  
OBJ_AllDay : 11/24/2022 10:07 pm : link
In comment 15921409 Producer said:
Quote:
Lots of money riding on playing.


Doesn’t matter. It’s close to impossible to play on a separated shoulder without missing a game. He didn’t separate his shoulder. People are making shit up
A gimpy right shoulder probably made the 4th and 1 catch  
CT Charlie : 11/24/2022 10:10 pm : link
really difficult. Reaching back with a bad shoulder screwed up his timing and made him look bad.
...  
christian : 11/24/2022 10:12 pm : link
I don't doubt he's injured, but when was it reported he seperated his shoulder?
RE: ...  
section125 : 11/24/2022 10:19 pm : link
In comment 15921445 christian said:
Quote:
I don't doubt he's injured, but when was it reported he seperated his shoulder?


never...don't think it was ever said what it was.
Possibly.  
Jerry in_DC : 11/24/2022 10:22 pm : link
We have been riding him too hard, particularly the Houston game. I suspect Daboll and Kafka would admit that in retrospect. Barkley is not a guy who you want to be right at the top of the league in touches, which he was after Houston.

I wonder if Daboll or Kafka has ever coached a team like this - super run heavy with a playmaking RB. Could be a learning experience for them.
35 carries a few weeks ago  
xman : 11/24/2022 10:24 pm : link
might be a reason
RE: 35 carries a few weeks ago  
sharp315 : 11/24/2022 10:28 pm : link
In comment 15921467 xman said:
Quote:
might be a reason

Bingo. Saquon is not a volume back. We emptied his tank to scrape by against the Texans.

His best YPC are games in the high teens or very low 20s - not 30+.
RE: 35 carries a few weeks ago  
Breeze_94 : 11/24/2022 10:29 pm : link
In comment 15921467 xman said:
Quote:
might be a reason


This. And 31 against the Bears.

Through 12 games, he’s already surpassed his career high in carries. He’s worn down.

Luckily he hasn’t had many touches the last 2 games & will have a “mini-bye” to get his legs back
RE: RE: 35 carries a few weeks ago  
Breeze_94 : 11/24/2022 10:31 pm : link
In comment 15921481 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
In comment 15921467 xman said:


Quote:


might be a reason



This. And 31 against the Bears.

Through 12 games, he’s already surpassed his career high in carries. He’s worn down.

Luckily he hasn’t had many touches the last 2 games & will have a “mini-bye” to get his legs back


Correction- he had 261 as a rookie, but it’s still been 3 years since he’s had this type of volume
His contract value is declining with his recent play  
kelly : 11/24/2022 10:36 pm : link
And if he is wearing down after 11 games then he is not a feature type back. Maybe not getting the contract extension has him making business decisions.


Maybe giving brightwell more carries will give Barkley something to think about.

If we can see it so can the coaches and players.
RE: RE: 35 carries a few weeks ago  
OBJ_AllDay : 11/24/2022 10:42 pm : link
In comment 15921479 sharp315 said:
Quote:
In comment 15921467 xman said:


Quote:


might be a reason


Bingo. Saquon is not a volume back. We emptied his tank to scrape by against the Texans.

His best YPC are games in the high teens or very low 20s - not 30+.


He was squatting 500 pounds in college clean pressing 315. Run the ball…no excuses for him. He checks himself out the game constantly whenever he’s tired. He should be prepared for 30 Carries every week
RE: Are people just forgetting the  
nyjuggernaut2 : 11/24/2022 11:00 pm : link
In comment 15921320 mittenedman said:
Quote:
separated shoulder?

He hasn't been the same since.


A separated shoulder doesn’t make you slower or less agile though, which Saquon has looked these past couple weeks.
35+ carries against Jacksonville beat him up...  
GMen72 : 11/24/2022 11:16 pm : link
Hasn't looked the same since.
Trade  
CDN-Mark : 11/24/2022 11:16 pm : link
If we can get a 1st for Barkley we should jump on it. Barkley is from the Gettleman era, enough said. We do not have money to pay a running back huge money. We have never got a full season out of him.

Listen I might be dumb and I am not a GM.
RE: Possibly.  
giantstock : 11/24/2022 11:33 pm : link
In comment 15921462 Jerry in_DC said:
Quote:
We have been riding him too hard, particularly the Houston game. I suspect Daboll and Kafka would admit that in retrospect. Barkley is not a guy who you want to be right at the top of the league in touches, which he was after Houston.

I wonder if Daboll or Kafka has ever coached a team like this - super run heavy with a playmaking RB. Could be a learning experience for them.


Or . . .

Possibly they've learned that Barkley is not worth it because he can't handle a heavy load (if him being worn down is the case.).

Barkley’s rushing attempts per game is running at a rate  
cosmicj : 11/25/2022 12:00 am : link
Above that of the most used RBs in the last few seasons, with the exception of Derrick Henry.

Take Leveon Bell’s 2017, when he rushed 321 times. That is approx the total Barkley is set to hit at his current rate. Bell was never the same after that, though the fact that he sat out the next season is a confounding factor.

There are plenty of reasons to think Barkley’s usage so far this season is unsustainable. How to solve this? The recent history of the team that just beat us can serve as a guide. In 2018 and 2019, Ezekiel Elliott was being run about 300x per season. (That’s a rate below Saquon’s this season.) The Cowboys drafted Pollard and have really cut down on Elliott’s attempts. Pollard’s a good player but his active RB2 role has the added benefit of resting Elliott.

So I have two conclusions:

1) So if we are going to resign Barkley - which I think is likely - the Giants have to bring in a very good back up. They might even try RB by committee, with the express objective of saving Barkley’s body for when it really counts.

2) The current Giants offensive strategy - run everything through Barkley - isn’t sustainable. First of all, it’s not working. NFL teams, which excludes the Texans, have been able to stimy the Giants O since Carroll and the Seahawks executed their game plan. Second of all, Barkley is breaking down. I think resigning both Jones and Barkley won’t succeed tactically.
Waiting for Neal  
allstarjim : 11/25/2022 12:01 am : link
And Bellinger to get back in the lineup for the "Barkley looks rejuvenated again" threads

He's taking a lot of heat here for the "drop," and that low and behind him ball with his momentum going the other way, that's the most difficult type of catch a receiver can make.

The ball was grossly inaccurate. That's on Jones, he didn't lead him at all and frankly wasn't a difficult throw to make.
RE: Trade  
GMen72 : 11/25/2022 12:04 am : link
In comment 15921549 CDN-Mark said:
Quote:
If we can get a 1st for Barkley we should jump on it. Barkley is from the Gettleman era, enough said. We do not have money to pay a running back huge money. We have never got a full season out of him.

Listen I might be dumb and I am not a GM.


If Carolina didn't get a 1st for McCaffrey, Giants wont get a 1st for SB. Maybe a 2nd and 4th...maybe better? Should be close to what McCaffrey yielded.

However, we definitely have the money to tag the guy who is carrying our offense.
Say it with me  
cosmicj : 11/25/2022 12:07 am : link
NFL execs and coaches are perfectly aware of RB injury rates and the role of the position in the modern NFL. That’s why the RB tag salaries are so reasonable.

The evaluation of Barkley is made relative to the market, not an absolute view of his position.
RE: RE: Are people just forgetting the  
jmdvm : 11/25/2022 1:11 am : link
In comment 15921408 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
In comment 15921320 mittenedman said:


Quote:


separated shoulder?

He hasn't been the same since.



There’s no way he separated his shoulder and didn’t miss a game…


Does anyone remember Emmitt Smith playing with a separated shoulder against the Giants in the last game of the 1993 season to clinch first place for Dallas? An incredible performance with a separated shoulder.
RE: Trade  
Matt M. : 11/25/2022 1:25 am : link
In comment 15921549 CDN-Mark said:
Quote:
If we can get a 1st for Barkley we should jump on it. Barkley is from the Gettleman era, enough said. We do not have money to pay a running back huge money. We have never got a full season out of him.

Listen I might be dumb and I am not a GM.
How do you trade a FA?
He has never been  
Gman11 : 11/25/2022 7:35 am : link
a push-the-pile, tackle breaking back. As big as he is, he should be. He goes down on first contact or just stumbles on his own too often.

I like Barkley. I think he would be the missing piece of a contending team with a good offensive line, but he isn't worth the $12 million or more people are saying he should be paid next year.
Hmmm idk maybe it was the 35 Carries he had the other game  
Tuckrule : 11/25/2022 8:00 am : link
Or the fact that the entire offense is run through him. He’s not built like earl campbell. They rode him until the wheels falloff and that’s what’s happening. These 10 days off will do him wonders. I expect a different saquon Vs the commanders December 4.

As far as his hands he’s not a good pass catcher. He catches passes but he drops too many and looks clunky in the pass game. He’s not a smooth hands catcher like let’s say Alvin kamara
RE: Waiting for Neal  
Tuckrule : 11/25/2022 8:02 am : link
In comment 15921571 allstarjim said:
Quote:
And Bellinger to get back in the lineup for the "Barkley looks rejuvenated again" threads

He's taking a lot of heat here for the "drop," and that low and behind him ball with his momentum going the other way, that's the most difficult type of catch a receiver can make.

The ball was grossly inaccurate. That's on Jones, he didn't lead him at all and frankly wasn't a difficult throw to make.


It was on jones for sure but that is not a tremendously difficult catch. Please stop with the excuses. He should have caught the ball. It was not overly difficult.
He is probably beat down as a lot of players  
Lines of Scrimmage : 11/25/2022 8:22 am : link
are this time of year. I agree that the heavy carries against the Texans caught up with him a bit but this should also be part of the evaluation.

I don't think he has a separated shoulder but we are not going to get the details of what issues (if any) are impacting him.

Giants blueprint has shown if they don't get 30 or more carries for over 4ypc they will struggle in games. Every loss they have this year they did not meet this threshold. Every win they did.
He  
Andrew in Austin : 11/25/2022 8:48 am : link
could be beat up a bit. Who knows - he might be fighting some sickness as well. I remember seeing one report on Andrew Thomas being questionable for illness. God knows there is a lot going around right now.

Hopefully he ramps back up into his early season form soon.
The 10 days off will help Barkley a lot but Kafka  
Chris L. : 11/25/2022 9:34 am : link
has made a mistake in not getting Brieda more involved. He is fresh and explosive.
RE: Barkley’s rushing attempts per game is running at a rate  
giantstock : 11/25/2022 9:41 am : link
In comment 15921570 cosmicj said:
Quote:
Above that of the most used RBs in the last few seasons, with the exception of Derrick Henry.

Take Leveon Bell’s 2017, when he rushed 321 times. That is approx the total Barkley is set to hit at his current rate. Bell was never the same after that, though the fact that he sat out the next season is a confounding factor.

There are plenty of reasons to think Barkley’s usage so far this season is unsustainable. How to solve this? The recent history of the team that just beat us can serve as a guide. In 2018 and 2019, Ezekiel Elliott was being run about 300x per season. (That’s a rate below Saquon’s this season.) The Cowboys drafted Pollard and have really cut down on Elliott’s attempts. Pollard’s a good player but his active RB2 role has the added benefit of resting Elliott.

So I have two conclusions:

1) So if we are going to resign Barkley - which I think is likely - the Giants have to bring in a very good back up. They might even try RB by committee, with the express objective of saving Barkley’s body for when it really counts.

2) The current Giants offensive strategy - run everything through Barkley - isn’t sustainable. First of all, it’s not working. NFL teams, which excludes the Texans, have been able to stimy the Giants O since Carroll and the Seahawks executed their game plan. Second of all, Barkley is breaking down. I think resigning both Jones and Barkley won’t succeed tactically.


Your post is talking this year or next year?

Our running hasn't been sustainable in part due to OL injuries and the defense not being as great as it once was. I'm not blaming the Defense. But when they had the easier schedule they were able to shut other offenses down in 2nd half and gradually the Giants wore down a bit the other team or caught some lucky breaks like vs Baltimore. So, if the Giants had reasonably healthy OL and a great defense, then it would be sustainable (within talent limits).

Th problem is that their talent overall sucks. That's where winning is not sustainable. It’s not the style of play- but the talent. So in trying to give your team the best chance to win, the best chance to win is more important than worrying about “sustainability.” And the Giants best chance is to run Barkley. The OL is much better at Run Blocking. The WR’s and Tight Ends suck. And SB is not much of a pass catcher. And DJ is much better with strong running game.

In regards to next year, a draft focus should be on WR's - the heck with a backup RB. If you have much better WR's then you don’t need to run SB as much.
RE: Waiting for Neal  
giantstock : 11/25/2022 9:47 am : link
In comment 15921571 allstarjim said:
Quote:


He's taking a lot of heat here for the "drop," and that low and behind him ball with his momentum going the other way, that's the most difficult type of catch a receiver can make.

The ball was grossly inaccurate. That's on Jones, he didn't lead him at all and frankly wasn't a difficult throw to make.


What a load of crap. The excuse makers for Barkley are out. A pass can be bad but a receiver that has two hands on the ball and is not diving for it and not going full speed and no one ready to blast him after the catch has to make that catch.

It's not that Barkley is taking a lot of heat. It's just a fact should have caught it. It wouldn't be a big deal but you Jones Haters just looking to further dump on him any chance you get keep trying to make believe he shouldn't have caught it just so you can dump on Jones.

He’s a pro football player. Pro football players should make that catch.


RE: He is probably beat down as a lot of players  
christian : 11/25/2022 10:10 am : link
In comment 15921661 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
Giants blueprint has shown if they don't get 30 or more carries for over 4ypc they will struggle in games. Every loss they have this year they did not meet this threshold. Every win they did.


You must have missed the Ravens and Panthers games.
RE: RE: Waiting for Neal  
allstarjim : 11/25/2022 10:53 am : link
In comment 15921814 giantstock said:
Quote:
In comment 15921571 allstarjim said:


Quote:




He's taking a lot of heat here for the "drop," and that low and behind him ball with his momentum going the other way, that's the most difficult type of catch a receiver can make.

The ball was grossly inaccurate. That's on Jones, he didn't lead him at all and frankly wasn't a difficult throw to make.



What a load of crap. The excuse makers for Barkley are out. A pass can be bad but a receiver that has two hands on the ball and is not diving for it and not going full speed and no one ready to blast him after the catch has to make that catch.

It's not that Barkley is taking a lot of heat. It's just a fact should have caught it. It wouldn't be a big deal but you Jones Haters just looking to further dump on him any chance you get keep trying to make believe he shouldn't have caught it just so you can dump on Jones.

He’s a pro football player. Pro football players should make that catch.



Jones took accountability for that pass. You can say Barkley should have caught it. That's fine. But in terms of responsibility for the failure of the play, it's 90%+ on the throw.
 
christian : 11/25/2022 11:14 am : link
Both players took responsibility. It was a poorly placed ball, but certainly catchable. Both players didn’t do their jobs.
Barkley probably still has shoulder issues.  
joe48 : 11/26/2022 5:34 am : link
His production being down coincides with injuries to OL and TE. I think the part about his great pass catching was a bit overstated by a few here. Don’t see him getting a big offer from Giants. He is replaceable.
RE: RE: RE: Waiting for Neal  
giantstock : 11/26/2022 10:57 am : link
In comment 15921912 allstarjim said:
Quote:
In comment 15921814 giantstock said:


Quote:


In comment 15921571 allstarjim said:


Quote:




He's taking a lot of heat here for the "drop," and that low and behind him ball with his momentum going the other way, that's the most difficult type of catch a receiver can make.

The ball was grossly inaccurate. That's on Jones, he didn't lead him at all and frankly wasn't a difficult throw to make.



What a load of crap. The excuse makers for Barkley are out. A pass can be bad but a receiver that has two hands on the ball and is not diving for it and not going full speed and no one ready to blast him after the catch has to make that catch.

It's not that Barkley is taking a lot of heat. It's just a fact should have caught it. It wouldn't be a big deal but you Jones Haters just looking to further dump on him any chance you get keep trying to make believe he shouldn't have caught it just so you can dump on Jones.

He’s a pro football player. Pro football players should make that catch.





Jones took accountability for that pass. You can say Barkley should have caught it. That's fine. But in terms of responsibility for the failure of the play, it's 90%+ on the throw.


Barkley also said he should have caught it.
RE: …  
giantstock : 11/26/2022 6:29 pm : link
In comment 15921938 christian said:
Quote:
Both players took responsibility. It was a poorly placed ball, but certainly catchable. Both players didn’t do their jobs.


+1.

And btw, when you asked so often what would should we pay for him going forward. As of this moment I would lean toward not signing him.

...  
christian : 11/26/2022 6:54 pm : link
It's go time for Jones. The offensive line should be back healthy, Barkley is getting a 10 day rest, and the TE group looks to be rounding out.

It's not going to be easy, but this is his time.
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