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This was the "holding" call on Darnay Holmes

Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/25/2022 8:48 am
Jesus Christ.
https://twitter.com/BobbySkinner_/status/1595923049924427777 - ( New Window )
It is  
RobThailand : 11/25/2022 8:50 am : link
When the game is in Dallas
ref had to have gotten  
bluefin : 11/25/2022 8:51 am : link
the player’s number wrong, there’s no other explanation
Just  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 11/25/2022 8:51 am : link
brutal
In fairness to the officiating crew...  
Big Blue Blogger : 11/25/2022 8:52 am : link
...the contact did occur 5.0001 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.
thanks  
fkap : 11/25/2022 8:53 am : link
I needed that salt poured in my bleeding wound.
You hate to blame a game on one play  
rsmith32 : 11/25/2022 8:54 am : link
But that changed the momentum of the entire game.

Dallas ended up driving down for a score when it should have been a punt. Giants likely would not be going for 4th and 1 on the next drive, which led to another 7 pts for dallas
There is no other way to say it  
Mike from Ohio : 11/25/2022 8:55 am : link
The refs unquestionably had a very bad game. Completely inconsistent with both the holding and the PI calls. Lamb was flopping and throwing his hand up on every route he ran and if they saw that they just called something.

The most telling part of the night was the detailed explanation on the Dallas challenge where the ref told an entire story of the play instead of just making the call. He was really relishing his moment in the sun and it was clear he wanted to be part of the show.
It was a bad call  
thefan : 11/25/2022 8:56 am : link
especially considering some very egregious holdings on Thibbs that went on called (at least two). The league also needs to review the penalty on offensive linemen being too far down the field. If it doesn't impact the play then what is the value of that penalty?

Didn't Parcells say something like you have to be good enough to beat your opponent and the bad calls? We weren't yesterday. On to Washington.
RE: In fairness to the officiating crew...  
section125 : 11/25/2022 8:59 am : link
In comment 15921704 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...the contact did occur 5.0001 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.


I think that was the illegal contact 5.0001 yards past the line, which was dubious. I think the hold was right off the LoS and of course there was no hold...Pereira himself was mystified...
Holmes has a reputation for holding and it's well founded.  
chick310 : 11/25/2022 9:01 am : link
Imagine he held several times last night and it wasn't called too.

And not sure what Jesus Christ has to do with any of it.
This and the illegal man downfield were figments  
Chris684 : 11/25/2022 9:04 am : link
of last night’s crew’s collective imaginations.
Thibs  
fkap : 11/25/2022 9:09 am : link
should fall down more often. That was the only time he got the holding call.
It was a monumental call  
GiantGrit : 11/25/2022 9:21 am : link
Fair to say it changed the trajectory of the game but when we still found ways to let up 3rd and 12 & 3rd and 15 on 2 different scoring drives.

2nd and 23 and Dallas rushed for 11 I knew they were gonna convert. No excuse for the defense on that.
But we still  
GiantGrit : 11/25/2022 9:22 am : link
**
 
ryanmkeane : 11/25/2022 9:22 am : link
But this had “no impact” on the game.
RE: Thibs  
section125 : 11/25/2022 9:23 am : link
In comment 15921736 fkap said:
Quote:
should fall down more often. That was the only time he got the holding call.


Said last night that Leo Williams got a call when he went down when be strangled, yet on the play before Thibs was held just as badly but tried to play through it and nothing was called.
I think most officiating crews are impartial until they get to Dallas  
Ivan15 : 11/25/2022 9:24 am : link
The crowd and the whole atmosphere of a game in Dallas, especially on Thanksgiving, gives the Cowboys a big advantage.

Also, being the home team for a Thursday game is a big advantage because the team gets an extra full day of practice compared to the road team. This is a bigger advantage than late in the season when two teams may each play games on a Sunday and then play each other on the following Saturday when the road team may have to give up one off-day in order to get in a full week of practice.
RE: …  
GiantGrit : 11/25/2022 9:28 am : link
In comment 15921762 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
But this had “no impact” on the game.


Its inarguable that it had an impact. Not only did Dallas score but it was an extremely long drive. Something I haven’t seen mentioned here but I originally thought when we went for it on 4th - Daboll knows his defense is gassed and stands no chance if we put them right back on the field.

It backfired big time, may not have been his thinking but my gut said it played a part
RE: Holmes has a reputation for holding and it's well founded.  
kcgiants : 11/25/2022 9:30 am : link
In comment 15921720 chick310 said:
Quote:
Imagine he held several times last night and it wasn't called too.

And not sure what Jesus Christ has to do with any of it.

Maybe if we can get him to be on our side we will be a better team quicker
RE: …  
ajr2456 : 11/25/2022 9:30 am : link
In comment 15921762 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
But this had “no impact” on the game.


Bad calls happen in every game, whining about it is for losers. They had chances on a 3rd and 12 and 3rd and 15 to force them off the field with a FG. They didn’t make plays. They also didn’t score a point after this game until garbage time. The impact of this play isn’t worthy of the complaining.
RE: You hate to blame a game on one play  
Doubledeuce22 : 11/25/2022 9:33 am : link
In comment 15921707 rsmith32 said:
Quote:
But that changed the momentum of the entire game.

Dallas ended up driving down for a score when it should have been a punt. Giants likely would not be going for 4th and 1 on the next drive, which led to another 7 pts for dallas


I think Barkley’s drop on 4th and 1 was the bigger momentum swing.
RE: …  
Mike from Ohio : 11/25/2022 9:36 am : link
In comment 15921762 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
But this had “no impact” on the game.


Very play “impacts” the game to differing degrees. That call was significant no doubt, but it did not decide the game. The most crucial play of the night was the 4th and 1 where Barkely was completely uncovered and our two “star” players couldn’t execute a routine play that could have gone the distance and completely changed the game. You can’t miss those plays in crucial situations and our guys did. That’s how you lose games.
RE: RE: …  
section125 : 11/25/2022 9:37 am : link
In comment 15921781 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15921762 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


But this had “no impact” on the game.



Bad calls happen in every game, whining about it is for losers. They had chances on a 3rd and 12 and 3rd and 15 to force them off the field with a FG. They didn’t make plays. They also didn’t score a point after this game until garbage time. The impact of this play isn’t worthy of the complaining.


Yes bad calls happen - this was not a bad call - it was beyond bad - appeared to be a guess...and sometimes it is not just "a" bad call, but a few(or non-calls). Yes I agree they had two other chances to stop the drive, including Thibs running right past Dak.
When you have a team that is on a thin edge with no margin for error, clearly improper calls do make a monumental difference.
I get it  
GiantSteps : 11/25/2022 9:37 am : link
There’s definitely truth to the whole “can’t blame it on the refs” mentality, but the fact of the matter is that bad officiating seems to have an impact on at least one or two games every week. Surely there’s a better way (and don’t call me Shirley).

I guess it’s just another one of those “if people keep watching and showing up to games, why spend time and money trying to improve something that doesn’t need fixing” for the NFL.
RE: I get it  
ajr2456 : 11/25/2022 9:39 am : link
In comment 15921795 GiantSteps said:
Quote:
There’s definitely truth to the whole “can’t blame it on the refs” mentality, but the fact of the matter is that bad officiating seems to have an impact on at least one or two games every week. Surely there’s a better way (and don’t call me Shirley).

I guess it’s just another one of those “if people keep watching and showing up to games, why spend time and money trying to improve something that doesn’t need fixing” for the NFL.


Of course it can get fixed. Like I mentioned in the other thread, Mara is on the competition committee- if he wants it fixed he can get it fixed. The first step is making them full time employees so they can spend the time in between games and the offseason being better at their job, but that would require more money out of the owners pockets.
It’s text book coverage  
UConn4523 : 11/25/2022 9:40 am : link
such a stupid fucking call
RE: Thibs  
Mike from Ohio : 11/25/2022 9:40 am : link
In comment 15921736 fkap said:
Quote:
should fall down more often. That was the only time he got the holding call.


There is something to this. Lamb was imitating a flounder on dock all night and he got a lot of calls because of it.

If the league takes anything away from ways to improve officiating, it would be to institute (and use) a flopping penalty like hockey has. Throw flags on the histrionics and folks will stop doing it and refs will stop being confused by it.
RE: RE: Thibs  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 11/25/2022 9:41 am : link
In comment 15921801 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15921736 fkap said:


Quote:


should fall down more often. That was the only time he got the holding call.



There is something to this. Lamb was imitating a flounder on dock all night and he got a lot of calls because of it.

If the league takes anything away from ways to improve officiating, it would be to institute (and use) a flopping penalty like hockey has. Throw flags on the histrionics and folks will stop doing it and refs will stop being confused by it.


Good idea.
RE: RE: Thibs  
section125 : 11/25/2022 9:43 am : link
In comment 15921801 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15921736 fkap said:


Quote:


should fall down more often. That was the only time he got the holding call.



There is something to this. Lamb was imitating a flounder on dock all night and he got a lot of calls because of it.

If the league takes anything away from ways to improve officiating, it would be to institute (and use) a flopping penalty like hockey has. Throw flags on the histrionics and folks will stop doing it and refs will stop being confused by it.


I have often thought they should penalize players for asking for flags...it has gone to another level the last couple years. But perhaps a warning to that player 1st, next one is 15 yards unsportsmanlike...
They’d never do that  
ajr2456 : 11/25/2022 9:45 am : link
Because it would mean too many star QBs getting 15 yard penalties
RE: They’d never do that  
Mike from Ohio : 11/25/2022 9:51 am : link
In comment 15921811 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Because it would mean too many star QBs getting 15 yard penalties


I would love to see it. How many QBs slide at the last minute at a defenders legs and when the guys falls on him, comes up screaming for a flag? Even a 5 yard penalty that negates the play will stop that quickly.
It's  
mittenedman : 11/25/2022 9:52 am : link
just digusting to have to watch that. I don't care whether they "impacted" the game or not. (Obviously they did.) It's not fair to the players, the coaches or the fans. Terrible product, unfortunately I'm addicted to watching the Giants.
What does  
mittenedman : 11/25/2022 9:53 am : link
blame have to do with anything?

I expect a fairly called game. Why is that a problem?
 
ryanmkeane : 11/25/2022 9:55 am : link
Lamb was flailing his arms the entire game. Sure it worked but that’s not football.
RE: It's  
Mike from Ohio : 11/25/2022 9:55 am : link
In comment 15921822 mittenedman said:
Quote:
just digusting to have to watch that. I don't care whether they "impacted" the game or not. (Obviously they did.) It's not fair to the players, the coaches or the fans. Terrible product, unfortunately I'm addicted to watching the Giants.


Well you can’t really expect to watch any sporting event and not see plenty of missed calls or phantom calls. That is just part of having humans be refs. They legit just don’t see some things from where they are standing, and sometimes just think they see something they didn’t (like accident witnesses).

The league should make these jobs full time and pay them really well so there is a demand for the position. That will make it easier to drum out bad refs and make the others really work at being good at it.
RE: RE: They’d never do that  
ajr2456 : 11/25/2022 9:56 am : link
In comment 15921819 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 15921811 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Because it would mean too many star QBs getting 15 yard penalties



I would love to see it. How many QBs slide at the last minute at a defenders legs and when the guys falls on him, comes up screaming for a flag? Even a 5 yard penalty that negates the play will stop that quickly.


That Eli Apple play on Wentz still haunts me
….  
ryanmkeane : 11/25/2022 9:57 am : link
There’s a difference between blaming the refs on a loss and hoping that you get a fairly called game where huge important moments aren’t swung in a particular direction. Which is what happened yesterday. Did the Giants lose because of the refs? No, absolutely not.

….  
ryanmkeane : 11/25/2022 9:58 am : link
You could also argue that Jones was hit late on the failed 4th down play. That gets called all the time, somehow the refs missed it though.
RE: RE: It's  
ajr2456 : 11/25/2022 9:58 am : link
In comment 15921828 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:

The league should make these jobs full time and pay them really well so there is a demand for the position. That will make it easier to drum out bad refs and make the others really work at being good at it.


I feel like it being part time makes it more a status thing and kind of a brag at the office.
RE: RE: RE: It's  
Mike from Ohio : 11/25/2022 10:01 am : link
In comment 15921834 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 15921828 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:



The league should make these jobs full time and pay them really well so there is a demand for the position. That will make it easier to drum out bad refs and make the others really work at being good at it.



I feel like it being part time makes it more a status thing and kind of a brag at the office.


And you only have to avoid being the absolute worst to keep the job. Maybe you don’t get to work the Super Bowl if you are below average but you get to keep the job.

Imagine if 10 people were working their asses off behind you to take your job? It might step up your focus a little bit.
THAT one  
M.S. : 11/25/2022 10:02 am : link

really F***ing pissed me off. Big time.
Lamb veers into Holmes  
giantBCP : 11/25/2022 10:06 am : link
and initiates contact, then proceeds to flail his arms. He knew exactly what he was doing and the refs rewarded him for it.
RE: Holmes has a reputation for holding and it's well founded.  
bwitz : 11/25/2022 10:54 am : link
In comment 15921720 chick310 said:
Quote:
Imagine he held several times last night and it wasn't called too.

And not sure what Jesus Christ has to do with any of it.


Lighten up, Francis.
RE: In fairness to the officiating crew...  
Joe Beckwith : 11/25/2022 11:08 am : link
In comment 15921704 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
...the contact did occur 5.0001 yards beyond the line of scrimmage.


Minor correction: 5.0002 yards beyond LOS.
But other than that:🤦‍♂️.
A horseshit call.  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 11/25/2022 11:08 am : link
From one of the very many horseshit officiating crews in the NFL.
After that call I said to myself  
Crazed Dogs : 11/25/2022 11:15 am : link
wtf....gonna be hard to overcome that...stating the obvious that was an incredibly bad call....Giants played hard til the end.
Are you Fing kidding me!  
Simms11 : 11/25/2022 11:24 am : link
I didn’t see the game, but heard there was more then one poor penalty called. It’s been a weekly occurrence all year against the Giants. I’m sure it happens in most other games too, but obviously our focus is on this team.
Eric, love Darnay since he joined  
Dave in VA : 11/25/2022 11:25 am : link
the team, but almost every tight game he gets tagged with penalty. Most of the time (my opinion) there's good video. Wish he'd learn from his mistakes.
RE: RE: You hate to blame a game on one play  
PatersonPlank : 11/25/2022 11:58 am : link
In comment 15921785 Doubledeuce22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15921707 rsmith32 said:


Quote:


But that changed the momentum of the entire game.

Dallas ended up driving down for a score when it should have been a punt. Giants likely would not be going for 4th and 1 on the next drive, which led to another 7 pts for dallas



I think Barkley’s drop on 4th and 1 was the bigger momentum swing.


You mean Jones poor pass on 4th and 1 right?
Refs were brutal all day  
TheBlueprintNC : 11/25/2022 12:04 pm : link
the illegal man downfield? The numerous non mugging calls on Thibs? The phantom holding on Darnay? The blind non roughing the passers? Brutal
RE: RE: RE: You hate to blame a game on one play  
speedywheels : 11/25/2022 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15922009 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
In comment 15921785 Doubledeuce22 said:


Quote:


In comment 15921707 rsmith32 said:


Quote:


But that changed the momentum of the entire game.

Dallas ended up driving down for a score when it should have been a punt. Giants likely would not be going for 4th and 1 on the next drive, which led to another 7 pts for dallas



I think Barkley’s drop on 4th and 1 was the bigger momentum swing.



You mean Jones poor pass on 4th and 1 right?


No he was right, it was a brutal drop…
NFL officiating is beyond putrid and always has been.  
Red Dog : 11/25/2022 1:24 pm : link
That's just one more reason not to watch games in Dallas.
Looking good Rog  
ghost718 : 11/25/2022 1:34 pm : link
RE: Lamb veers into Holmes  
Matt123 : 11/25/2022 2:44 pm : link
In comment 15921850 giantBCP said:
Quote:
and initiates contact, then proceeds to flail his arms. He knew exactly what he was doing and the refs rewarded him for it.


I didn't see that. I saw Lamb raise his hand because he had a step.

I don't like this call either, but did look like he pulled his jersey, could be what they saw.

RE: It is  
Jack Stroud : 11/25/2022 3:27 pm : link
In comment 15921699 RobThailand said:
Quote:
When the game is in Dallas
Spot on! Officials are more prone to flag the visiting team than the cowturds. I think it has become an expected practice and teams prepare for the bad calls.
For reference, NFL referees are paid $205,000 per year.  
cosmicj : 11/26/2022 6:07 am : link
You can certainly support a family on that and it’s a lot for a part-time position, so there’s already a financial incentive for people to seek the spots.

I’m not sure what making it a full-time job would add. Proponents of making it full time need to detail exactly how it would help.

Suspect the issue isnt financial at all but the selection and retention aspect of managing the officiating crews. The “make it full time” sounds like an illustration of Mencken’s line about simple popular solutions.

Then there’s the possibility that NFL officiating is a very difficult job and the NFL refs are actually really good at it…
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