I will start out here with I hate watching GMFB filling a Giants loss to anyone but specifically an NFC East loss and more fine a point another loss to the Cowboys. It sucks hearing the Cowboys kiss ass fest and the bash the Giants- the balloon bursting etc.. Hate it..
So I started yesterday posting my thread saying let's not over expect or doom and gloom anything about the Giants after the game with the Boys knowing how we were rolling into the game. I was right then and am still right now....BUT, there are a few things to look a bit deeper on - positively and negatively.
I thought the Giants rolled into the game with the perfect game plan and the ONLY game plan they could have based on the shape of the team. The Giants ignored the run game (at least showed run but didn't) and did rollouts, misdirection reads and throws and it worked. We moved down the field, we made plays and scored- just to have it overturned by a questionable penalty for illegally down field. * The Giants need to look at their style, their plays and how they practice as we have many illegal down field penalties and OPI penalties that seem to be too frequent to just be bad luck. Seems Daboll's plays themselves are a known quantity and if refs are tipped off to look for that then we need to be less obvious about what we are doing (OPI wise).
The defense is thin in the secondary , thin like the last setting of cutting thickness in a deli before you get to shredded. Shredded is what eventually happened to our secondary as the game wore on. The backups , which now are starters with other backups getting the #5,#6 dB's. Williams did ok- not the whole game but enough so for me to see he could develop as the nickel CB and playing more behind true starters. Flott played ok but two huge issues with him reared their ugly heads and that is- lack of bulk showed through as he is getting physically bullied and then with that lack of bulk the fear of injury- which happened with a possible concussion later.
Staying with the defense for a second, 2023 is looking much brighter there with Thibs, Lawrence , (Williams- maybe/maybe not), Ojulari, Robinson, Jackson, McKinney, Love.... Right now many of those folks are missing and some others are close to big games but just not there yet. Thibs showed me a TON yesterday and I feel great about his future. But, he has to finish some of these plays too. That's not a knock on him, just a true statement if he is going to be a dominant player in the NFL he has to get some sacks and when you have Dak in your hands on big third down play you have to bring him down. It is a tad microcosm of this team, we are close, closer than in the past but we still need plays (playmakers) to get over the hump.
So let's look at the go forward from here. The Giants are a ship that is springing leaks everywhere and can only patch so many. We are 0-2 in the division and have 4 games left division wise of our last 6 games. Fans are lining up both sides of the aisle - those who predicted a shitty season and now see signs of weakness so they come out of the woodwork to bash everything the Giants do (better to be right than be happy I guess) and those who still see sunshine and rainbows and think with better play calls , better games by the officials and better luck by injury and this team can contend for the SB..
The truth is we are much better than most people thought- record wise- but we are severely lacking in talent and health. Watching the game yesterday you could look at unit vs unit and how many Giants do you take over Boys players? Barkley, maybe. Jones over Prescott, no... Lamb, Gallup, Schultz all would start for us.. Their Oline would move some starters in on our line.. Defensively Parsons, Diggs, Lawrence would all have a place on our team.
We are looking to do something these last 6 games but we are limited and truthfully more limited than we were just three weeks and far more than the start of the season where we were limited to begin with.
The 7-2 start, as some like to say was great and we are basically playing with house money knowing how poor the talent level is and how poor our cap situation is this year.
Not sure I like that thinking per se but it is probably true.
Yesterday was not a day where the result should be used to determine the future of the team or individual players BUT some of their individual play should be. So here goes:
Jones- I won't use the whole game against him but some specific plays told me we can't spend big money on him. He will forever be the same QB he was at Duke. He was a big athletic talent who played tough and made some plays against superior opponents but never beat those guys and never elevated his play or others to say he can be a top echelon QB. Jones's throw on 4th and 1 to Barkley was just not good enough in a huge moment that could absolutely change the direction and outcome of the game. Take out the talent deficiency and it still was a huge moment in this game and result. If talent were more equal this miss would stand out so much more as a very bad play . Jones is not the long-term answer at QB period.
Now, that 4th and 1 play was an even bigger miss by Saquan Barkley. The pass is the pass etc but when you are a superstar, a guy who wants to be considered the best, you make that effing catch! You do not trip and fall down and look so pedestrian in the attempt. Barkley has been off for weeks and I do not want to hear excuses - injured, tired, etc.- because he is supposed to be the STAR! There is NO way I would sign him long-term and give him big $'s with the way he plays and the way he collects stats but rarely collects stat filled wins. Barkley played small again and this isn't an overreaction it is true. If Jones should be elevating his play, Barkley has to at least play to his level..
The rest of the season:
I still would like to make the playoffs but I am starting to think the Giants are looking to 2023 now. If we can beat Wash (twice) and hopefully Indy we will be in the playoffs. The problem is I am now thinking the best option for us is to protect our future- don't try and sign OBJ, don't look to Jones or Barkley for 2023 and let's see Hodgins, Johnson, James as far as who is kept around into the off-season as potential depth players.
If we lose to Washington we could suddenly be the 8 seed for the playoffs and from there you start rooting for draft position. It's not horrible to think that way now (if we lose to Washington) as we are truly running on fumes. The amount of injuries to our 2022 draft class has really dampened the happy rebuild, future feelings.
The rebuild has begun and we have wins we didn't have before. At the same time we know we need two things- Daboll's own QB and weapons at WR, TE and even RB if Barkley leaves.. You can't sign all of those needs in FA and you can't draft all of those if you have to use a bunch to move up...
I am rooting for wins as I always do but, if we do lose I am rooting for others to win, allowing us to move up a bit in the draft order. Hopefully we beat Washington twice, beat Indy to make the playoffs. If we do not then the draft and where we will be selecting becomes very important.. I feel very good about the future with Schoen, DaBoll and some building blocks and this off-season will be the Biggest non coaching change off-season we have seen since 2005!
Fact is Giants are a MASH unit the fact they were in the game is very encouraging. Dallas out classes us all over the field right now. BTW you could tell Thomas was not feeling well.. Looked slow and Lethargic. ITs ok they are building a good squad here.. I would not sign Barkley to big contract. I would Franchise Dan. QB is not the problem right now.. Talent and Depth is.
As for right now, we all would have signed for 7-4 with the Giants controlling their destiny. Can’t wait for the Washington game.
The rebuild began in April and our still rebuilding. It might take a couple years. I’m encouraged that a team that SHOULD be 3-8 is 7-4 and we get meaningful December games. We are rebuilding and competitive. I like it. The past 5 years we have been “rebuilding “ and not competitive and that blows.
Then those guys leave or get hurt or disappoint.
This is a QB league, the only position where the odds makers change point spreads. We don't have a top flight QB. As long as we accept the mediocrity that is here, and if we don't have alternatives, we have to build a powerhouse defense, so said QB can be a game manager.
There was a metric crap ton of bad calls against the Giants yesterday, but that one was not one of them.
that's how i saw it as well, also thought the pass was placed in the only spot it could between lawrence outside and the DT inside because both had their hands up in the passing lanes. it wasn't the wide open throw people have tried to diagram it as and it was an infinitely easier catch than several key catches that were made by gallup, lamb, etc on some of dak's 50/50 balls.
overall great post. anyone who wasn't filling out a DFS lineup of Cowboy's receivers yesterday wasn't paying attention. the defense held up better than anyone could have hoped in the first half but got caved in in the second half - just as happened in the first dallas game. this is where we are seeing the roster limitations, though some of it is literally self inflicted with McKinney and choosing to dump bradberry instead of restructure him.
the offense hardly had the ball in the second half because the D literally didn't stop their offense once. no turnovers, no punts in the 2nd half after forcing 2 of each in the first half. the giant d needed to get lucky with some kind of amazing individual play by thibs or a DL or a bad play by Dallas like Dak's INTs and it just didn't happen in the 2nd half.
here's 1 thing im insanely jealous of watching dallas - how did they keep their OL so solid? fredrick is long gone and collins/williams left in FA. Tyron is hurt. Martin is almost on year 10. and somehow their line is still performing better than ours with an all pro LT. i just dont get that.
Probably shouldn't have gotten as far as they did anyway.
here's 1 thing im insanely jealous of watching dallas - how did they keep their OL so solid? fredrick is long gone and collins/williams left in FA. Tyron is hurt. Martin is almost on year 10. and somehow their line is still performing better than ours with an all pro LT. i just dont get that.
Because they are marginally better than the Giants across the front. It does not take much. Think about how much better the Giants Olines is vs last few years.
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here's 1 thing im insanely jealous of watching dallas - how did they keep their OL so solid? fredrick is long gone and collins/williams left in FA. Tyron is hurt. Martin is almost on year 10. and somehow their line is still performing better than ours with an all pro LT. i just dont get that.
Because they are marginally better than the Giants across the front. It does not take much. Think about how much better the Giants Olines is vs last few years.
Do you get that the 2 OL's the giants drafted in the 1st and 3rd rounds were out today. Plus AT was slowed still by the flu
If I had to guess now, Schoen targets WR or CB in round 1
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here's 1 thing im insanely jealous of watching dallas - how did they keep their OL so solid? fredrick is long gone and collins/williams left in FA. Tyron is hurt. Martin is almost on year 10. and somehow their line is still performing better than ours with an all pro LT. i just dont get that.
Because they are marginally better than the Giants across the front. It does not take much. Think about how much better the Giants Olines is vs last few years.
The Giants played well against Dallas front in the trenches, the problem is the linebackers absolutely suck against the run so only time we stopped them is when the first line made tackles and in pass game our secondary couldn't hold up at all.
I've been tough on Thibs, but he played his best game of season by far yesterday and he would have had a sack or two (or maybe more picks) if our back 7 played decent.
This post is pretty damn pre-emptive until we play the Commanders next week.
4th and 1 - ( New Window )
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here's 1 thing im insanely jealous of watching dallas - how did they keep their OL so solid? fredrick is long gone and collins/williams left in FA. Tyron is hurt. Martin is almost on year 10. and somehow their line is still performing better than ours with an all pro LT. i just dont get that.
Because they are marginally better than the Giants across the front. It does not take much. Think about how much better the Giants Olines is vs last few years.
i get that they are marginally better, it's just mind boggling how. Biadasz was picked after Lemiuex I think. Tyler Smith was a late first thought of as a project (and he's clearly still adjusting, thibs dominated him). steele is a minimum player. mcgovern makes less than feliciano and glowinski. they have 1 plus player (martin) but are somehow able to get more out of that group than ours with 1 plus player at a more key spot (thomas).
Daniel Jones is either going to sign a team friendly deal that has outs after 1 or at most 2 years with the wide open option of drafting a replacement or he most likely isn’t here.
Week to week we debate him and I think its foolish. Its clear to me Daboll likes Jones but the goal here is to win championships. If they can upgrade they won’t think twice about it.
Keep saying it - Buffalo surprised year of Beane’a tenure going 9-7. That didn’t change their plan. Drafted Allen, went 6-10, lots of fans weren’t happy at the time. Worked out pretty well for them.
Plenty of us, rightfully so, sensed the Giants were an offseason to offseason team with no clear plan. Gettleman gutted the team and then couldn’t decide if he was rebuilding or contending giving out awful contracts paying poor - average talent big money.
Joe Schoen has a clear plan on what he wants to do which is why we didn’t overpay for Jerry Jeudy. I expect tough moves are made this offseason but i’m confident they’ll be the right moves for the first time in awhile.
Believe me or don’t, the Giants were aggressive on Jeudy and the Broncos got cute as our favorite GM used to say. Right time, right place Schoen will pull the trigger on big moves. Right now no reason to overpay.
Just one comment about Dak who had 2 picks yesterday.I really do not understand the love for a guy that has won one 1 playoff game with the talent surrounding him. He is overrated and underachieving for $40 M. Cowboys will not win SB with him.
Just one comment about Dak who had 2 picks yesterday.I really do not understand the love for a guy that has won one 1 playoff game with the talent surrounding him. He is overrated and underachieving for $40 M. Cowboys will not win SB with him.
Dak is highly overrated. He has always had the best of the best at WR OL RB and TE. Whats the excuse going to be this year?
I look at it as last 2-3 games might be like playoffs for us
We have to beat Washington once and then last see what happens with rest of the schedule
I would just write off both Philly games. We may be close to healthier when we play them in 2 weeks and they might not need the final game of the season
Teams like vikes and colts can go either way
These other teams can get hit with some injuries too
Look at Buffalo….Allen wasn’t much year 1 but then they got Diggs and Allen got more comfortable in the system. He took off.
Jones has been doing very well…I believe in the top 10 in QBR, has cut down on turnovers tremendously, and can run for the first down when needed.
You made too big a deal on that 4th down pass…you really need to slow down the video, even stop it when the ball hits Saquon. You will see the pass was good enough to at least be caught. Saquon blew it and has struggled recently.
Lastly, do you really think a guy like Malik Willis or Pickett would be that much better than Jones, if at all? Many of these guys coming out are falling to live up to expectations…it’s a crap shoot. At least you know what you have with Jones. Get him a STEFON Diggs and a better OL and watch him progress much like Josh Allen did.
No, I’m not convinced Daboll is thinking what you said…rather just the opposite.
Games like last night gives management more info to make decisions for the off season.
Look at Buffalo….Allen wasn’t much year 1 but then they got Diggs and Allen got more comfortable in the system. He took off.
Jones has been doing very well…I believe in the top 10 in QBR, has cut down on turnovers tremendously, and can run for the first down when needed.
You made too big a deal on that 4th down pass…you really need to slow down the video, even stop it when the ball hits Saquon. You will see the pass was good enough to at least be caught. Saquon blew it and has struggled recently.
Lastly, do you really think a guy like Malik Willis or Pickett would be that much better than Jones, if at all? Many of these guys coming out are falling to live up to expectations…it’s a crap shoot. At least you know what you have with Jones. Get him a STEFON Diggs and a better OL and watch him progress much like Josh Allen did.
No, I’m not convinced Daboll is thinking what you said…rather just the opposite.
I think it's probably you that will be the one surprised.
If you look at the first half -- our patchwork defense did what they needed to do -- they forced three turnovers. That was the big difference from the first half to the second half.
And also the Offense failed to convert two TDs in the first half
those 8 points - if the Giants score -- and getting that play on 4th down -- It's a very different game. The 4th down miss was essentially a self-inflicted turn over
Jones - I was a Jones supporter but the three poor throws to the right flat were ridiculous. After 4 years in the league you simply have to be able to make those throws and any coach will expect you to make them. You can't run an offense when your quarterback is so unreliable. I am really disappointed in Jones failure to make those throws.
Take the Jones and Barkley money and build up the talent on the team. I am not a fan of Tyrod Taylor but he can be a bridge until we find the long term solution at QB.
I think we would get comp picks if Jones and Barkley go elsewhere, so there is that to consider.
Jones - I was a Jones supporter but the three poor throws to the right flat were ridiculous. After 4 years in the league you simply have to be able to make those throws and any coach will expect you to make them. You can't run an offense when your quarterback is so unreliable. I am really disappointed in Jones failure to make those throws.
Maybe I'm misremembering, but did Eli ever learn to hit a screen pass?
Look at Buffalo….Allen wasn’t much year 1 but then they got Diggs and Allen got more comfortable in the system. He took off.
Jones has been doing very well…I believe in the top 10 in QBR, has cut down on turnovers tremendously, and can run for the first down when needed.
You made too big a deal on that 4th down pass…you really need to slow down the video, even stop it when the ball hits Saquon. You will see the pass was good enough to at least be caught. Saquon blew it and has struggled recently.
Lastly, do you really think a guy like Malik Willis or Pickett would be that much better than Jones, if at all? Many of these guys coming out are falling to live up to expectations…it’s a crap shoot. At least you know what you have with Jones. Get him a STEFON Diggs and a better OL and watch him progress much like Josh Allen did.
No, I’m not convinced Daboll is thinking what you said…rather just the opposite.
I am completely lost in your response. Pretty sure I didn't name anyone as possible QB, pretty sure ai blasted SB about that play but ok, read into it as you wish.
The QB situation is a tough one. Always has been. I have posted the SB with QB's on rookie contracts the last 22 years. It is about 40% of the winners.
Problem is wanted one and getting the right one is not very easy. Timing is key.
You still have to win and Jones may be the best option for now until he is not and they can find a upgrade in the draft. It won't be easy.
If I were JS/BD I would load up in the draft on D again and get that unit to a upper tier level. Add to the IOL and they can win a lot of games and compete. If they can draft a QB this year great and at least he would have a good team around him.
This team is prime to add a QB if it is feasible. If not decisions have to be made.